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Hardware Legal Battles Put SED on the Rocks
Purav Sanghani - January 1, 2007 2:29 PM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 49 comment(s) - last by wuttuptae.. on Jan 15 at 7:45 PM
Surface-conduction electron-emitted displays continue to face delays

Due to an ongoing lawsuit between Canon and Nano-Proprietary, Toshiba may be forced to suspend development and manufacturing of SED, or surface-conduction electron-emitted display.

The pending lawsuit revolves around Nano-Proprietary's patent of the SED technology and its licensing with Canon, Inc.  Applied Nanotech, a subsidiary of Nano-Proprietary, licensed out their SED technology for Canon to manufacture exclusively -- not a Toshiba-Canon partnership.  

That didn't stop Toshiba-Canon from announcing production would start this past July, even though the joint venture did not have a production facility.  Japan Today reported earlier this morning the groundbreaking on the Toshiba-Canon SED facility will likely be delayed due to the legal battle between Toshiba-Canon and Nano-Proprietary.

The suit was filed in April of 2005 (PDF) with Nano-Proprietary seeking a declaratory judgment that the manufacturing of the SED by the joint venture of Toshiba-Canon, Inc. does not meet the details of the non-exclusive 1999 patent license agreement granted to Canon, Inc. by SIDT. SIDT changed its name to Nano-Proprietary shortly after the agreement was reached.

With billions in potential income resting on the outcome of the litigation, Toshiba and Canon, Inc. hope for a quick resolution.  A trial date has been set for May of '07, but the two companies are said to be discussing possible settlements. A motion to expedite the ruling was denied in November 2006.

During a press release on December 20, Toshiba America said the 55-inch SED demo would not be at CES 2007.  No official information was released about why the display was cancelled, but representatives from Toshiba stated in notes sent to appointment-only viewers of the demo that the delay was neither due to technical nor business-related issues.

Developers claim that the SED technology is able to deliver response times under a millisecond.  Another one of SEDs advantages include the ability to produce TV's over 40 inches in diameter that are only a few centimeters thick.  The big selling point for the SED is the power consumption is equal to about one thirds that of an LCD and can support full HD resolution (1,920 x 1,080 pixels).

Expected launch of the Toshiba SED was scheduled for the fourth quarter of 2007, but Toshiba President and Chief Executive Atsutoshi Nishida since stated that he wanted the company release SED displays in conjunction with the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

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Hope it all works out in the end
By skyyspam on 1/1/2007 10:34:50 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully we'll have SEDs on the market soon, despite all this red tape. I still can't stand playing games on modern LCDs, and my GDM-FW900 isn't getting any lighter. :p




RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By Lakku on 1/1/2007 11:24:26 PM , Rating: 2
Computer/console games on computer LCDs or console/computer games on living room TVs? I ask because I have noticed no problem with console/computer games on my Panasonic HDTV projector or computer games on my NEC comp. display. Response times are much better then my older LCD and both provide pretty exceptional color vividness and acceptable black levels. Guess its all personal experience.


RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By drebo on 1/2/2007 3:07:11 AM , Rating: 2
It's not about the reality of how LCD technology has progressed over the years anymore.

It's about how people think it's cool to complain about something that isn't an issue anymore because it was cool to complain about it when it was an issue.

Modern LCD panels do not have the latency/artifacting issues that prior generations have had. Heck, it's not even cost effective to get a CRT anymore. If you know what you're looking for, you can get a comperable size LCD with picture just as sharp and bright as a CRT and you don't have to pay much more. The space and power savings are well worth the extra few dollars. This is esspecially true with manufacturers like Dell. Their UltraSharp displays using Philips LCD panels have fantastic color definition and clarity and they're cheap as all getout. I normally sell them for around $250 for a 19". Last month, I sold 7 high-end NEC 19" MultiSyncs for only a little bit less. Picture quality was damn near the same.

In short, I usually ignore people who still complain about LCDs being "slow" or having bad picture.


RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By Live on 1/2/2007 6:45:15 AM , Rating: 2
Ignore this:

LCDs images delayed compared to CRTs ? Yes !
by Vincent Alzieu
Published on August 3, 2006

http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-1/lcds-imag...

You could also ignore the fact that the top players use CRTs. It's not like these guys cant chose what to use:
Quake 4 Grand Final Set 1 Map 1: Toxic vs. Fatal1ty
http://www.tsncentral.com/ondemand/111206824558/


RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By encryptkeeper on 1/2/2007 10:39:48 AM , Rating: 2
Damn, and all that lag on a monitor with 6ms response time. I think the best I've seen on an LCD is 2-4ms (I have a 4ms and I can play UT2k4 with no problems). That 2ms is a killer, but knowing Dell, that 6ms is probably a bit of a stretch.


By Daigain on 1/2/2007 1:23:52 PM , Rating: 2
Actully CRTs latency cant really be measured in millieseconds, the time it takes for the signal to travel. But then the Hz comes into play with a 75Hz screen anything below 8 or 12ms is just fraud because it does not matter how fast the signal gets there it still got to wait to be put on the screen.


By Runiteshark on 1/2/2007 9:43:27 AM , Rating: 2
Oh then I hope you can go ahead and buy me a nice 30" display or something comparable. The biggest issues I have had for LCDs for well, ever since they came out is resolution. Its not a matter of if its technically possible, its a matter of that manufacturers don't feel like doing something that would take a bit more effort to do (and still not make insane profits on it).


Of course, If you can point out to me a non-gigantic monitor that can display high resolution, and not have those sweet latency issues, then fine you won. Otherwise, I'll stick to my 21" CRT @ 2560x1920


RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By ttnuagadam on 1/2/2007 10:45:34 AM , Rating: 2
you obviously arent a gamer. as far as me or anyone else ive talked to, the MAIN problem with LCD's from a gamers perspective is lack of resolution options, video games dont always run great at an LCD's native resolution, and we dont all have 8800gtx sli


RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By drebo on 1/2/2007 1:56:11 PM , Rating: 2
On the contrary. I own a 20.1" LCD ($200 after rebate) with a 16:10 widescreen aspect ratio that plays 1080p very well. Games play at 1680x1050 through my 7900GT KO ($250 after rebate a year ago, < $250 stock now) without problem. Oblivion, no problem. DAoC, no problem. WoW, no problem. Brothers In Arms, no problem. Far Cry Ep:1, no problem. All of these games have a resolution option for 1680x1050, among many others.

You don't need an 8800GTX SLI to saturate 1680x1050. Hell, you don't even need a single 7900GT.

Like I said, the issues found on LCDs three years ago no longer apply. It's simply not "cool" to admit it. Something about melancholic tendencies, I'd wager.


By The Sword 88 on 1/3/2007 1:09:06 AM , Rating: 2
There are a lck of resolution selections on an LCD monitor but the response times are fine and artifacting is not a problem. I have a Dell LCD monitor and an LCD TV which both of which I game on and the only complaint is that the monitor does not look as good in nonnative resoltion.


RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By The Sword 88 on 1/3/2007 1:10:11 AM , Rating: 2
Oh and can you post a link to that 20.1 in $200 monitor that sounds like a sweet deal.


RE: Hope it all works out in the end
By drebo on 1/3/2007 1:31:00 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...

That's the one I bought, because the following wasn't out yet. Like I said, there was a rebate.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...

That one's got even better specs, 5ms response, 1000:1 contrast ratio...doesn't get much better than that, particualrly for $200.


By Vertigo101 on 1/4/2007 10:27:39 AM , Rating: 2
I hate to burst your bubble here, but that monitor doesn't do 1080p, like your previous post claims.


By wuttuptae on 1/15/2007 7:45:30 PM , Rating: 2
Also note that the 5ms display can only display 262k colors (6-bits). I guess that's not so important for gamers? As far as gamers needing different resolutions, SED won't help with that since I believe it's a fixed resolution.

What SED will do is provide the best color reproduction, eliminate lag, show the blackest blacks, use less power, all in a flat panel. Sign me up!


And... both company loses to Laser TV
By nurbsenvi on 1/2/07, Rating: 0
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 1/2/2007 12:38:16 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Leading global CE manufacturer Mitsubishi claims that it was not invited to the Arasor launch of the so called Laser TV despite a Mitsubishi screen being used to demonstrate the Laser TV technology. They also claim that they have no knowledge of the Laser TV product which the directors of unknown Company Arasor International and its US partner Novalux claim is being developed in partnership with Mitsubishi and other manufacturers.

Ironically Arasor is trying to raise $35 million from investors in Australia despite the Company having no development office in Australia.

Paul Caldarera, the National Sales and marketing at Mitsubishi said "The first we heard of the laser TV concept was when we read about it online in the Australian national media. One would have expected that the Managing Director of Mitsubishi would have been invited especially as the directors of Novalux and Arasor were in Australia announcing a TV breakthrough that involved Mitsubishi" "We don't know where they got the Mitsubishi screen from and no one in Mitsubishi seems to know anything about Laser TV which is extremely unusual as we are often told by parent Mitsubishi Companies of activities in Australia involving Mitsubishi".

Journalists attending the launch of the so called Laser TV were not allowed access to the inner workings of the demonstration Laser TV according to journalists who attended the event.

Attempts to track down directors of the Company to comment have resulted in one director Larry Marshall promising to call back but despite this he failed to return our calls...


http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display...

We're still trying to finish an interview with them too


By nurbsenvi on 1/2/2007 1:16:36 AM , Rating: 2
Ah don't tell me Laser TV is a SCAM
because if it is 3 losers become 4 losers... adding consumers


RE: And... both company loses to Laser TV
By Viditor on 1/2/2007 1:17:56 AM , Rating: 2
I have my own sites on OLEDs...
Universal Display just announced a Green with a 60k hour lifespan, and it looks like they are within months of a blue as well (Red is already done).


By jtesoro on 1/2/2007 2:28:33 AM , Rating: 2
I haven't been keeping up with OLED, but I was rooting for SED and was considering waiting for it before getting into HD. I ended up going for LCD a few months back. Looks like a decent move in hindsight.


RE: And... both company loses to Laser TV
By Reflex on 1/2/2007 4:50:25 AM , Rating: 2
Viditor - Nice to see you again, long time.

Sorry to break bad news, but I spent about a year working in multimedia hardware recently and unfortunatly I can sum up OLED this way: Don't hold your breath.

It'll be great for small devices, but its never going to hit large screens. The OLED's burn out too quickly, the power consumption is inconsistant, and they simply cannot produce screens of large enough size that are both uniform and have no dead pixels. The large developers for the most part have stopped trying, its considered a dead end.

SED was looking like the new way forward, unfortunatly this article puts a damper on that as well.


RE: And... both company loses to Laser TV
By Viditor on 1/2/2007 7:04:51 AM , Rating: 2
G'day Reflex!
I work on video hardware myself...I do a lot of development work for the broadcast and multimedia industry (started as an editor...).

I think your info is a bit dated, mate. Over the last 2 months there has been a HUGE development push on OLED!
It's the main reason that Universal Display's (PANL) stock has jumped 35% over the last 3 months...
You may be thinking of Flourescent OLEDs as opposed to Phosphorescent OLEDs. I have seen a beautiful PHOLED display at 32" that used the newer OVPD (organic vapor phase deposition) processing technology.


By Reflex on 1/2/2007 3:49:06 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I don't really see it, but you can wait if you wish. Demo units of OLED displays have existed for years now, its mass production that appears to be impossible at large sizes. Lots of things can be built in a lab and demo'd, but the true test is in mass production, and there are no facilities that are equipped to mass produce large OLED panels, and no one has begun investment to do so. Until those steps are taken, large OLED displays are a pipe dream.


By zOs on 1/3/2007 7:31:14 AM , Rating: 2
u may get a chance to finish that interview:
http://www.photonicsonline.com/content/news/articl...


RE: And... both company loses to Laser TV
By peternelson on 1/2/2007 3:27:57 AM , Rating: 2
Not the only losers.....

"power consumption is A THIRD of conventional screens".

That is energy costs, fuel costs to produce it, and likely global warming, that could be avoided if they sold this.

So among other losers here are the polar bears who lose their habitat because some lawyers argued and wouldn't bring forward the date to sort it out. GRRRRR.


By Howard on 1/2/2007 3:38:33 AM , Rating: 2
You can't be serious.


By nurbsenvi on 1/2/2007 4:19:15 AM , Rating: 2
"SED legal dispute jeopardizes the whole planet"
Oh my God.


Future Display tech
By iwod on 1/2/2007 2:28:04 AM , Rating: 2
OLED due to Patent reason and technical limitation ( now) it will still be at least 4 - 5 years away before we see large size of OLED possible. Not to mention Large production.

Laser TV hasn't show much of it yet.

Which left with SED and LED LCD.

We all know how good SED image quality is. Low response time and it uses lower power. However doesn't it emit more radiation much like CRT Monitor?

LED LCD also promise to use lower power as well as high contrast and good colour range. ( Dont know about response time ).

So how do these 2 compare. Which i dont seems to find much with google.




RE: Future Display tech
By nurbsenvi on 1/2/2007 4:34:38 AM , Rating: 3
I don't know how we progressed from CRT to LCD Plasma instead of CRT to SED?

The whole LCD Plasma thing reminds of me of Roman to Middle Age back padle.

CRT to SED seems more like a natural progression doesn't it?
Who the heck came up with idea of LCD TVs anyway?

It just sucks that we had to go though all those troublesome and flawed technologies just to end up going back to the phosphor based technology.

crappy rearprojector lamp life, Burn-in, THE colour wheel rainbow effect, refresh rate, colour limitation and what not I just wanna forget about it.






RE: Future Display tech
By nurbsenvi on 1/2/2007 4:39:27 AM , Rating: 2
Oh I forgot to add DLP on the top.

LCOS is alright I think....


RE: Future Display tech
By masher2 (blog) on 1/2/2007 9:41:45 AM , Rating: 2
> "We all know how good SED image quality is. Low response time and it uses lower power. However doesn't it emit more radiation much like CRT Monitor? "

Don't forget blacker blacks, a much higher contrast ratio, and the ability to support far higher resolutions than LCD can ever hope to touch (300ppi is supposed to be trivial for SED).

As for the 'radiation' question, its a nonissue. SED uses a slightly lower accelerating voltage than do CRTs...and those are already extremely safe.


SSDD
By abbazaba on 1/1/2007 9:18:27 PM , Rating: 5
Ahh yes...always nice to see consumer interests take a backseat to corporate litigation. Can't we all just get along?




RE: SSDD
By sdsdv10 on 1/1/2007 10:39:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can't we all just get along?


Apparently the answer is... NO :(
With a big fat lawsuit exclamation point!


F - U Lawyers....
By Blood1 on 1/2/2007 1:43:25 PM , Rating: 2
This is just really sad. 1 year already passed and were still waiting on this b/c of lawyers and lawsuits bs..
What about laser's with sharks on their heads.. ;-p




RE: F - U Lawyers....
By masher2 (blog) on 1/2/2007 1:48:39 PM , Rating: 3
SED has been delayed due to manufacturing issues, not legal ones. This suit, so far, hasn't delayed SED a day. It has the potential to do so...but so far, that potential hasn't materialized.


Noooooooo!
By shaw on 1/2/2007 2:04:26 AM , Rating: 2
I'm actually looking foreward to SED! I want to buy an HDTV but I'm unhappy with LCD or DLP so I'm waiting for next gen HDTV technology. :*(

I know, I know. There's always going to be something better on the horizion, but I don't mind waiting to play my hand.




RE: Noooooooo!
By encryptkeeper on 1/2/2007 10:30:47 AM , Rating: 2
DLP just seems to be too damn dark. You'd be able to see the picture just fine if you were in a cave, but turn on a lamp with a 30 watt bulb and it's practically unwatchable. Maybe it just doesn't show up well with the florescent lights in best buy...


Mad
By scrapsma54 on 1/4/2007 6:08:06 PM , Rating: 2
I am mad, its just like I was mad about the ps3 (now I don't see why because it is a disappointing product), about this getting held off. Not at cannon or toshiba, but about the fact it got held off and not even an spine shiver of the tech at ces will show up. otherwise I do see a real future for sed since it has less the wattage consumption than that of Lcd, and supposed superior contrast ratio compared to its older brother the Crt. Not to mention the scalability of the size vs crt's limited safety of 32 inch




RE: Mad
By rykerabel on 1/5/2007 5:10:03 PM , Rating: 2
Why'd you have to bring up the ps3, now i have to reply with...

omg, i love it.

no matter what else happens, i'm already impressed with what i have and no reviews or opinions of other people can sway me from my own experience.

have fun


Mr. Sanghani, please use commas.
By Howard on 1/2/2007 12:15:56 AM , Rating: 3
What is Nano-Proprietary Toshiba?




Don't worry overmuch
By masher2 (blog) on 1/2/2007 9:44:40 AM , Rating: 3
NP isn't about to drive the only firms investing in SED out of the market, especially when Canon and Toshiba now hold enough patents to prevent NP from easily licensing their technology elsewhere. They simply see an opportunity to double their licensing fees, thats all. I imagine this suit won't delay SED's introduction at all.




By nurbsenvi on 1/1/2007 11:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
Good on them!
While they waste millions on lawyers
Laser TV tapes out first sending SED to the oblivion...
In the end leaving 3 sore fucking losers.





By Targon on 1/2/2007 6:10:05 AM , Rating: 2
What I want to know is why legal action is going forward when the manufacturing facilities have yet to be built. Ok, so the company has a patent. They see a future issue, so they should make some calls and say, "Before you go forward, you need to properly license the technology, if you don't, you are in violation of our patent".

Honestly, how hard is it for people to just talk BEFORE starting all this legal garbage? I understand the need to protect intellectual property in some cases, but the courts should be the last place to go, not the first or second.





Damn
By encryptkeeper on 1/2/2007 10:20:47 AM , Rating: 2
I knew it was too good to be true. Low power consumption, CRT quality sharpness, HD resolution, the only thing bad about it was the starting price around $10k, which would have gone down in 5 years or so. Oh well, I guess it's back to plasma.




SED
By Opinions on 1/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: SED
By sdsdv10 on 1/1/2007 10:41:00 PM , Rating: 2
And this lawsuit is going to improve Toshiba's customer service, how?


RE: SED
By thegrimreaper3 on 1/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: SED
By jmunjr on 1/2/2007 2:55:49 AM , Rating: 4
What's a "deutsch bag"? What does Germany have to do with this?

I think you are the ignorant one...


RE: SED
By encryptkeeper on 1/2/2007 10:28:13 AM , Rating: 2
I have to admit, that's a new one to me too.


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