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Some think Bradley "Chelsea" Manning is a "gay hero", as this poster reads.  (Source: Truth Dig)
Manning's lawyer says gender issue is medical treatment, to deny request would be unethical

He's been convicted of one of the biggest leaks of confidential government information in the history of the U.S.  He's been sentenced to 35 years in prison, with the possibility of parole in 6 and 1/2 years, with time served.  But even as the debate over the young former U.S. Private First Class (PFC) continues, Mr. Manning has issued a statement triggering a brand new debate.

I. Manning: Call Me Chelsea

At a press conference after the sentencing, David Coombs, Manning's lawyer remarked, "[And we are looking into] ensuring that a soldier who is in confinement who has gender dysphoria gets treatment."

That subtle comment might have been lost amidst the interest in his flashy comments about Manning's innocence and his bid for a presidential pardon.  But on Thursday Mr. Coombs read a statement from Manning revealing just how serious the leaker is about his desire to undergo gender reassignment.


His attorney read the letter on NBC's TODAY show, which read in part:

I am Chelsea Manning. I am female.  Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition.

I also request that, starting today, you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility).  I look forward to receiving letters from supporters and having the opportunity to write back.

He signed the letter "Chelsea E. Manning"

Bradley Manning sign
Convicted leaker Bradley Manning, asked to be refered to as Chelsea and want taxpayer funded sex change surgery while he/she is imprisoned. [Image Source: BradleyManning.org]

It should be noted that Mr. Manning, openly gay since his teen years, was bullied over his sexuality in the military and at the time of his 2010 arrest was reportedly pursuing sex change options.  He cited the bullying and his gender confusion as part of his motivation for leaking military secrets in a February plea deal, while asserting that his primary motivation was a belief that the leaks would help change the world view on U.S. public policys.  He admitted in an apology on Wednesday that his actions were naive and had unintentionally harmed the nation he vowed to serve.

II. Does Eighth Amendment Require Taxpayer Funded Sex Changes for Inmates

To say that Mr. Manning's request is controversial is an understatement.  Even some transgender advocates are decrying the request, as it would give the dishonorably discharged convicted criminal privileges that the U.S. military denies those who are serving and are honorably discharged.

Currently, the U.S. Military's policy is not to pay for the actual operative part of gender reassignment.  It does provide discrete sexuality counseling, and since President Obama's rollback of "don't ask don't tell" has allowed gay/transgender individuals to enlist.  The Department of Veterans Affairs additionally provides hormone treatments for honorably discharged soldiers -- an elective procedure not offered to to active servicepeople.

But in the general U.S. prison system there's some momentum to force taxpayers to pay for inmates sex reassignment surgeries.  With some experts claiming it's a simple matter of medical ethics, the fight is likely to eventually be taken up by the Supreme Court.  The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which sets precedent for South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia in January overturned a decision by the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia to toss Virginia inmate Ophelia Azriel De'Lonta's lawsuit seeking gender reassignment.  

Ophelia De'Lonta
Ophelia De'Lonta, a Virginia inmate who was born male and identifies as a female, won his/her case to have a Viriginia Federal Court reconsider overturning a state ruling that sex reassignment should be taxpayer funded. [Image Source: AP]

A state judge had previously order that the inmate -- who threatened to seriously injure himself/herself otherwise via self-castration if sex reassignment was not provided -- receive the requested surgeries/therapies.  But the federal court tossed the case.  Now it will be forced to debate the issue on the grounds of the finalclause of the Eight Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which states:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

De'Lonta is being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

According to The Encyclopedia of Surgery a male to female sex reassignment costs between $7,000 to $24,000 USD, while a female to male sex reassignment costs over $50,000 USD.  Other expensive inmate surgeries have been paid for by taxpayers for over two decades, such as plastic surgery.

Prison population  U.S. prison population
The U.S. is number one in imprisonment. [Image Source: Prospect.org]

Any new treatment allowance to inmates is a big deal from a taxation and federal budget perspective, as the U.S. imprisons a higher percentage of its citizens than any other nation in the world.

Sources: Bradley "Chelsea" Manning, NBC TODAY Show



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Well...
By DigitalFreak on 8/22/2013 9:22:18 AM , Rating: 4
While I support Manning's document leaking, there's no way in hell taxpayers should be footing the bill for anyone's gender reassignment surgery.




RE: Well...
By kleinma on 8/22/2013 10:17:44 AM , Rating: 4
Why support his document leaking? This isn't snowden who exposed a surveillance program the govt was using on its own people, this is a guy who took military information during an ongoing war that put a lot of military lives at risk, all for personal gratification because he felt 'alone' in the world.


RE: Well...
By ArcsinZ on 8/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Well...
By carigis on 8/22/2013 12:31:41 PM , Rating: 4
no.. he gave a whistleblower a pass rather then a traitor who released a bulk drop of unvetted classified data... BIG difference


RE: Well...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Well...
By DigitalFreak on 8/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Well...
By Schrag4 on 8/22/2013 2:09:30 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Personally, hell will freeze before I pay for anyone's sex change operation.


Good luck with that. I assume you pay taxes. You're likely already paying for a marketing campaign that's trying to get people signed up for a program or two that you oppose (you're paying for those programs too). You're also paying the govt to spy on all of your communications. How exactly are you going to keep from paying for this guy's gender reassignment?


RE: Well...
By boobo on 8/22/2013 10:31:14 PM , Rating: 5
Whom is Snowden a traitor against? Can he be a traitor against the US when he informed the US people of something that was being done in the US to the US people against the US constitution?

Isn't the first loyalty of any loyal American to the country's Constitution and to the American people?


RE: Well...
By maugrimtr on 8/23/2013 8:54:00 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.


Snowdon gave information to journalists exposing unconstitutional activities by the NSA whose sole oversight is a secret court, the president and a paralyzed Congress (that the NSA lied to repeatedly). As far as I can tell, he's the only one who ever risked a long jail term to bring this to the public's attention.

Yeah, real traitor there. By the way, when do you intend raising the taxes on our tea?


RE: Well...
By NellyFromMA on 8/22/2013 1:45:29 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, he blew that whistle alright.


RE: Well...
By Samus on 8/22/2013 2:15:19 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Huge difference between leaker and whistle blower. I support Snowden (to an extent) but do not support what Manning did. However, their is no arguing the information both "leaked" was classified and damaged the United States' reputation.

The real question is, why are the pilots of the AH64 in the video Manning leaked not being charged with murder of innocent journalists and children?


RE: Well...
By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/2013 3:32:48 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
The real question is, why are the pilots of the AH64 in the video Manning leaked not being charged with murder of innocent journalists and children?


Because they didn't kill innocent journalists and children?

The video was faked by Assange, Manning knew about it and went with it, consulting Assange on several points.

When you exaggerate and outright lie to forward an agenda, even if that agenda is pure, you ultimately doom your cause.


RE: Well...
By Paj on 8/23/2013 11:06:11 AM , Rating: 2
Proof it was faked?

The US military confirmed the journalists were killed in this incident. 16 journalists were confirmed to have been killed by US forces throughout the Iraq war.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq...


RE: Well...
By Aloonatic on 8/22/2013 3:54:50 PM , Rating: 5
Who's ruined America's reputation, the whistle-blower, or the American's that give him something to blow his whistle over/leak in the first place?


RE: Well...
By Aloonatic on 8/22/2013 4:00:30 PM , Rating: 2
yes yes, apostrophes, I know :(


RE: Well...
By Cloudie on 8/22/2013 5:13:17 PM , Rating: 2
Woah now! Careful, that's a bit too much logic for DailyTech! Next someone will say that paying for Manning's gender reassignment isn't actually as bad as paying their own government to spy on them...


RE: Well...
By StevoLincolnite on 8/23/2013 1:23:26 AM , Rating: 2
If you are worried about the United State's reputation, one way to go about it is to stop NSA spying on 75% of the worlds internet data.

Manning is small fry compared to that IMHO. - And really, the information he "leaked" shouldn't have been that easily accessible in the first place.

It's a shame he is going to pursue a sex change, he is a fairly handsome guy.


RE: Well...
By Dribble on 8/22/2013 5:24:43 PM , Rating: 1
This is information that something like 2 million Americans have access too. Are you seriously trying to suggest that anyone who wanted it doesn't have it already? The russians/chinese/anyone will have paid one of the other 1.99999 million americans for this years ago - they probably get daily updates.

The reality is any information available to that number of people, to people like manning, isn't really secret to anyone but the likes of you and me.


RE: Well...
By drevas3053 on 8/22/2013 9:10:38 PM , Rating: 3
"The reality is any information available to that number of people, to people like manning, isn't really secret to anyone but the likes of you and me."

As someone who had the same job as Bradley Manning, an Intelligence Analyst with a TS (SCI) Clearance, I can tell you that you are badly mistaken. We saw things back in the 80's that I still haven't seen discussed in public or in the media. That is the whole idea of "Secrets".

Oh, and the Russians are notorious cheapskates when it comes to buying Intelligence.


RE: Well...
By Dribble on 8/23/2013 4:53:26 AM , Rating: 2
Yes it is a secret, but you are only keeping your secrets from the general public - people like me - everyone else knows. The truth of it is this level of secret is really only meant to be kept from the public because they don't "play the game", and might kick up a fuss if they knew all the laws that were being broken.

Manning and particularly Snowdens exposure is so terrifying for the NSA not because any foreign agency might be able to use the information (they already had it) but because the people they are meant to be protecting might use the information and actually stamp down on their illegal activities.


RE: Well...
By drevas3053 on 8/23/2013 10:23:44 AM , Rating: 2
No, again your lack of actual experience in the field gives you a badley mistaken point of view. We classify information to keep it out of the hands of our enemies, and occasionally our friends, not just the general public. You don't posses a working understanding of the subject. There is information that is reported in the Press that within the walls of the Intelligence Community is Classified as Secret. You tell me the rationale of that and your opinion might be credible. Otherwise it is just supposition without any real context. "Everyone" doesn't know our secrets, if they did it would be pointless to have them.


RE: Well...
By drevas3053 on 8/23/2013 10:52:25 AM , Rating: 2
One last thing, because if you don't understand now you never will, Spies exist for a reason. I was stationed in West Berlin in the late 70's. At that time it was one of, if not the largest, training ground for Russian and East Bloc Spies. I, and pretty much all of my buddies were approached by one of them at some point. Sometimes more than once. We thought it was a game. I was 17 at the time and thought I was SO smart. So one night at a Club one of them approached the group I was with. Unfortunately not a "Hot" Mata Hari type, it was a dude. So we decide to screw with the guy and feed him crap that sounded credible, but wasn't true. I didn't understand how STUPID that was until later after going to the Intelligence School and working in the field. As far as we knew the information was bogus, but it was close enough to the possibility that it could be true and we might have steered him to it. Get it?

There is an old Navy saying that "loose lips sink ships". I can assure you, the Commander of the Chinese Navy doesn't have the 7th Fleets Battle Plan on his Desk to be perused at his leisure. That Battle Plan is a SECRET.


RE: Well...
By AntiM on 8/22/2013 12:28:10 PM , Rating: 5
Whether I support him or not, the day I have to pay for a convicted criminal (or anyone else) to have a sex change operation will be the day I stop paying taxes. It's bad enough that I have to pay my own government to illegally spy on me. Not by any stretch of the imagination does the 8th Amendment require tax payers to fund sex change operations.


Lawyers
By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/2013 3:23:01 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone understand them?

Look I get that you are bound to defend your client, by law, to the best of your ability. I'm all for that.

What I just do not understand is this culture of legal chicanery that seems to have taken over the legal profession, where lawyers create the most fantastical arguments, fake syndromes, and other circus-like arguments for their clients.

Manning is already sentenced. The trial is OVER! You're making a mockery of yourself and the entire profession. This is a joke!




RE: Lawyers
By boeush on 8/22/2013 8:20:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
lawyers create the most fantastical arguments, fake syndromes, and other circus-like arguments for their clients
I didn't know that gender identity disorder was invented by lawyers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disor...

Those wily bastards, they have entire swaths of science and medicine fooled!


RE: Lawyers
By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/2013 8:24:13 PM , Rating: 2
I was making a generalized statement not specific just to this case., but umm okay, you really got me there champ. Bravo.


RE: Lawyers
By FITCamaro on 8/23/2013 3:08:18 PM , Rating: 2
No just people who are trying to create reasons why we need to pity them for their mental problems. And now to create a reason as to why we need to pay for their disfiguring surgery.

If you want to take the scientific view on it, gay people are in fact sick from a disease or mental problem that causes them to be attracted to the sex other than nature intended. Of course that's not politically correct so it's never framed that way.


RE: Lawyers
By Cloudie on 8/23/13, Rating: 0
RE: Lawyers
By Reclaimer77 on 8/23/2013 5:36:21 PM , Rating: 2
The only biological reason for sex is reproduction, which is precluded when you have same-sex intercourse. I think that's all he meant.

Didn't you just say I needed anger management? Chill :)

I think it's just crazy that people are trying to portray sex-changes as some kind of health issue, and expect others to help pay for it. These are just wacky times we live in, where even the junk you were born with between your legs gets politicized.


RE: Lawyers
By Cloudie on 8/23/13, Rating: 0
RE: Lawyers
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2013 8:37:27 AM , Rating: 2
Uhh I don't have children either, but I enjoy sex of course.

I specifically said BIOLOGY. The biological reason for sex is, duh, reproduction.

Your entire second paragraph is going into places that I never did, or even suggested. I didn't say any of that!

quote:
It is a health issue.


Sorry but that's where I draw the line. Be gay all you want, I don't care. Marry who you want, I don't care. But mutilating your genitals to satisfy some perverse mental issue is where I draw the line. There is something just so fundamentally wrong with that, it cannot possibly be described as a "health issue" in any rational sense.

Manning is an obvious male right down to the meat and two veg. I'm sorry he has some mental sickness where he feels like he's a woman. I feel I should be taller with hair that lasted into my 40's at least, but oh well, we don't all get what we want in life. That's what therapists are for.


RE: Lawyers
By boeush on 8/23/2013 6:03:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
... to take the scientific ... gay people are in fact sick from a disease or mental problem
Sure, you can take that view. Of course, if you truly insisted on being scientific about it, you'd have to acknowledge that this disease, except perhaps for its most mildest forms, is presently incurable and that there exists no known or foreseeable therapy to treat its symptoms.

As such, there's no more or less reason for you to "pity them for their mental problems" or "pay for their disfiguring surgery", than there would be with respect to congenitally blind or deaf people, people born with Down's syndrome, dwarfism, etc.
quote:
Of course that's not politically correct
What's actually not politically correct, and in fact not morally acceptable and just plain vicious and nasty, is to heap dismissive ridicule and peer-pressure-backed abuse upon such, effectively congenitally disabled, people.


RE: Lawyers
By Dr of crap on 8/26/2013 2:50:59 PM , Rating: 2
Please, just let the inmates have a punching session with him over the course of a few weeks and see if he really NEEDS to be a girl!!

Sorry, you "feel" you should be a female, here's a dress, go play Barbie's !!!!


Misplaced outrage
By DukeN on 8/22/2013 10:31:33 AM , Rating: 1
To quote @langho

quote:
Yeah Taxpayer will be paying for #ChelseaManning hormones. They also payed for her to be tortured. Guess which one they're outraged at




RE: Misplaced outrage
By kattanna on 8/22/2013 10:39:39 AM , Rating: 2
well.. actually.. if you think about it.. denying the operation could be labeled another form of torture.. so those behind torture are of course upset that it might end


RE: Misplaced outrage
By DukeN on 8/22/2013 10:48:58 AM , Rating: 2
LOL


RE: Misplaced outrage
By 91TTZ on 8/22/2013 12:12:46 PM , Rating: 2
Paid for "her" to be tortured? First of all, he hasn't got the surgery done and didn't even request it when the torture would have been occurring. So he'd still be a "he" at the time.

Sex changes aren't retroactive. The new "woman" can't talk about when she was a "little girl" because he was a little boy at the time.


RE: Misplaced outrage
By TessC on 8/22/2013 8:28:05 PM , Rating: 2
No. Transgender women are women regardless of whether they've had "the operation" or not. Many transgender people choose not to have SRS or are unable to due to costs, personal preference, or other reasons. In the same way, if you lost your genitalia in a tragic accident that would not mean you were no longer male.

What's between your legs is not and should not be the final determining factor of your gender.


RE: Misplaced outrage
By 91TTZ on 8/26/2013 11:23:36 AM , Rating: 2
You missed my point. At the time of the torture, Bradley manning neither had surgery NOR did he request that people call him a woman. That only came later.

It would be grammatically correct to call him a "he" there since he was, in fact, male and living as a male.


If he likes men, why would he want to be a woman?
By 91TTZ on 8/22/2013 12:10:15 PM , Rating: 2
This makes no sense. He says he's a gay dude- I get that. He wants to meet dudes who like dudes. But wait- now he wants to be a woman. So he's still going to like dudes but those dudes want mates that are dudes, not women.

He's going to pull a Chaz Bono- Chaz was a woman who liked women. She had a female girlfriend, who not surprisingly liked women. But then Chaz gets a sex change and becomes a "man". Suddenly Chaz's girlfriend dumps "him", because the lesbian girlfriend doesn't like men.

Also, the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for this. He has no legitimate medical issue. While he'd "prefer" to be a woman, it's not like he's going to die if he doesn't get the sex change done.




By Cloudie on 8/22/2013 5:04:24 PM , Rating: 2
Gay guys aren't interested in transwomen. There are a fair few straight/bi guys who are though.

What you've got to realise is that it can take a LONG time to come to terms with being gay or more still trans. Society and people really frown upon it. It's seen as the worst thing ever (the reality is that it really isn't).

Often you find people do it in steps i.e. gay people come out as bi then later on gay, or trans people come out as gay then trans. Being bi is more socially acceptable than being gay (if you're bi you're "half straight" right?) and being gay more socially acceptable than trans.

Just remember, if society was more accepting of these things then Manning probably never have even joined the military (he joined to "straighten" himself out). Homophobia etc. is just senseless. Thank goodness it's dying. Manning's an intelligent guy/gal, he/she could have gone far.


By FITCamaro on 8/23/2013 1:54:22 PM , Rating: 2
So because he's an idiot who doesn't know who he is we need to feel sorry for him that he joined the military?


By MrBlastman on 8/23/2013 2:41:51 PM , Rating: 2
Let me ask you this: Why the hell does it have to "come out" in the first place? Why can't they just handle it as a private, personal matter and one day, wake up as a new person.

The World doesn't need to know.


By Cloudie on 8/23/2013 4:52:57 PM , Rating: 1
Because having to lie, cover up and pretend to be something you're not is incredibly unhealthy and makes you unhappy. Imagine if you could never mention your girlfriend/wife or other important people in your life. Imagine if mentioning them could lose you your job, get you beaten up etc. You just completely take it for granted that you can mention your partner whenever you want, or be close to them and there are no repercussions to that.

Heterosexuality isn't covered up or hidden from the world. I have no idea why homosexuality should be.


By Dr of crap on 8/26/2013 2:58:27 PM , Rating: 2
YES exactly - don't ask don't tell was right!
I DO not need to see your rainbow (fill in the blank) and I don't need YOU to tell me your NOT straight! I don't need to know your weird history, DON'T TELL ME, I don't want to know!


Get used to it
By bug77 on 8/22/2013 9:55:52 AM , Rating: 1
Next, he's gonna want to adopt.




RE: Get used to it
By kleinma on 8/22/2013 10:13:45 AM , Rating: 2
Last I checked they don't let you adopt children in prison.


RE: Get used to it
By bug77 on 8/22/2013 11:17:27 AM , Rating: 2
Surely they can make an exception for hero, right?


RE: Get used to it
By wordsworm on 8/22/2013 11:51:28 AM , Rating: 2
Do they have prisons for kids in the US?


RE: Get used to it
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/22/2013 12:58:46 PM , Rating: 3
There are juvenile detention facilities, but they are fairly tame compared to an adult prison. Usually you will find kids that commit serious crimes in them, the type that would land an adult 5-20 minimum in jail. Children can't be housed in the same prisons as adults in the US.


A Shining Example
By bitmover461 on 8/22/2013 9:21:38 AM , Rating: 4
of how twisted the Constitution has become. Twisted to the point of being fairly meaningless in its original form and intent.




I get it
By Rage187 on 8/22/2013 4:28:39 PM , Rating: 4
If I was about to be locked up for 6-35 years, I'd like some breasts I could play with, too.




People like you are the problem
By dew111 on 8/23/2013 6:11:14 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
He cited the bullying and his gender confusion


Okay, SHE is not confused about HER gender. I am a gay man, and I like being a man. My sexuality is separate from my gender identity. Chelsea is not a gay man, she is a woman. They are two very different things. I know many people have a hard time understanding transgender issues; I do too. These people are born into the wrong body. Imagine being yourself, with the same thoughts and desires, but in the body of the opposite sex. You would want to be who you are now, but that is extremely difficult, not least of all because of the ignorance perpetuated by articles like this one.

Bitching about fiscal responsibility in this context is pretty irresponsible and damaging. Just because you were fortunate enough to be born in the right body doesn't mean you can be a jerk to people who weren't.




RE: People like you are the problem
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2013 1:49:12 PM , Rating: 1
You aren't born with those kind of desires. We're conditioned as we develop to conform to sex-based archetypes through observation, social interaction, parental guidance etc etc.

He is not a woman trapped in a body. That is not possible. He's just fucked in the head.


RE: People like you are the problem
By dew111 on 8/26/2013 12:56:29 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, I'm sorry, are you some sort of expert on gender identity? Have you tested Chelsea to make sure she has a Y chromosome?

Remember when people considered homosexuality a mental disorder? Yeah, they don't anymore (and by they, I mean all the credible psychological and medical associations). Same with gender identity.


By carigis on 8/22/2013 12:34:55 PM , Rating: 3
he is not in a country club. if he does not have life threatening disease he gets no surgeries. even IF its private donations.. he can deal with his mental issues when he gets out of prison in about 10 years. on his own dime.




I'll do my part
By JustWannaHelp on 8/22/2013 10:43:20 AM , Rating: 2
As a taxpayer I'm willing to chip in a few bucks to buy him a pair of rusty scissors. Snip snip.




Absolutely sickening
By FITCamaro on 8/22/2013 1:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
That anyone would think that taxpayers should foot the bill for anyone to have a sex change.

We've already fallen off the cliff and hit the ground. We're just twitching on the ground bleeding to death now.




hi
By laulie on 8/22/2013 4:53:25 PM , Rating: 2
upto I looked at the paycheck four $4130, I be certain that...my... neighbours mother had been actualie taking home money in their spare time from there computar.. there uncles cousin started doing this 4 less than 13 months and recently paid for the dept on their appartment and got a gorgeous Jaguar E-type. this is where I went,........... http://miniurl.com/59fd




Seriously??
By Movieman420 on 8/22/2013 4:59:53 PM , Rating: 2
What a crock of sh1t!! No way in hell should the taxpayers pay for this. If the enlisted do not qualify for it then how does someone who isn't enlisted AND dishonorably discharged qualify?? To top it off, this would be an elective surgery...he doesn't 'need' the procedure nor would it life threatening to not have it. Imo it's a total waste of the court's time and the people's money to even consider (or re-consider) it. If he wants to castrate himself then let him...afterwords they can ship him to an insane asylum.




Manning
By drevas3053 on 8/22/2013 9:21:22 PM , Rating: 2
I don't believe the military will give him what he is asking for. I'm not sure there is even a mechanism for it if they wanted to. Which I don't think that they do. The military runs differently than a Corporation. You can't just hold a meeting, make a decision, then allocate the funding. If it were that easy, then Sequestration wouldn't have mattered as much.
I think he was lucky to get the sentence that he got. He could be out in about a dime. He can pay for his own Surgery then.




By mikemn on 8/23/2013 1:47:22 PM , Rating: 2
Well I been around for many years and I thought nothing would surprise me much this one is right up there.

/shocked
/sigh




There should be no surgery...
By dxf2891 on 8/23/2013 3:06:40 PM , Rating: 2
And here's why: When I was in the service and requested LASIK corrective eye surgery, it was denied as an elective surgery. My military proxy advocated that the surgery would make me a "more effective warrior" (his words not mine). The panel denied the surgery stating that unless the "ailment" that called for the surgery was life threatening or was caused while in service of the country, it was not permited. His sexual identity issues were there long before he enlisted and if he had stated that it would prevent him from carrying out his duties effectively, it would have precluded him from enlistment in the first place.




Why not?
By foxalopex on 8/23/2013 4:40:42 PM , Rating: 2
Frankly I think if he really wants the reassignment surgery, I think the government should go for it. While it is pretty expensive for one person, I don't see everyone in prison suddenly asking for this surgery, do you?

Prison is suppose to be about rehabilitation, not punishment. The idea is you want people who can come back to society and re-contribute. Or would you rather get someone back who is bitter and disillusioned with life to the point that they will cause problems when released?

I remember reading about an incident in Canada where an otherwise respectable naval officer leaked information to the Russians recently on his own free will. When he was caught they discovered that his life was a complete disaster from wrecked marriage, gaming addiction (really), self-issues to suicide attempts. In fact in the end it seems like he did it to commit suicide without actually dying because that's how depressed he was. The news reported that he was convicted and sent to prison. I hope in prison our system has the decency to give him a psychiatrist to get his issues in order.

If Manning's issues with the military were due partially to gender issues then resolving them for him would seem like the caring thing to do. Hopefully he'll come out of prison productive and able to contribute instead of continuing down the road of someone who has problems still.

I've met people with gender issues and believe me it's probably as bad as someone with a fatal genetic disease. Imagine if you had Cancer and everyone was afraid of you because it might be contagious and everyday it was killing you little by little. How long do you think it would take before you would go crazy.




Poly Test Results
By hiscross on 8/24/2013 10:39:58 AM , Rating: 2
Well Mr. Manning you successfully passed your Top Secret Full Poly test. Please see your supervisor Mr. Swoden, he has an assortment of USB drives you will like. Oh one more thing, nice dress, the uniform of the day are pant suits.




How about...
By jihadjoe on 8/25/2013 11:40:51 AM , Rating: 2
How about we use him as a trial for all of those member enlargement products they try to sell these days?




The Constitution
By bitmover461 on 8/26/2013 12:58:55 PM , Rating: 2
THANK YOU for actually quoting the Constitution. Too many 'journalists' try to make a case that this or that is unconstitutional, without referencing the actual verbiage. Now that we've read the text, it is clearly illustrated how twisted the Constitution has become. Twisted to the point of becoming meaningless. That anyone would even attempt to make the argument that this is cruel and unusual punishment is beyond idiocy.




By Aloonatic on 8/22/2013 3:47:02 PM , Rating: 1
1) Is this really tech news or a tech blog relevant story?

2) whenever some guy does something that outrages DTers the first thing you guys normally post is a message about getting f^&cked in the showers, so I guess this a win-win story for you guys who love to think about sodomy in correctional institutions and the main protagonist in the story, for once :o)




No Sex Change Surgery
By Arsynic on 8/22/2013 3:49:50 PM , Rating: 1
They should allow him to be pounded in the ass like the bitch that he is. I'm sure the inmates will enjoy calling him "Chelsea".

I do agree that they should meet him half way and allow him to prance around in a dress like John Leguizamo in Con Air...




Pay? Have Some Soap!
By DaveLessnau on 8/22/13, Rating: 0
And let the bigots/rednecks begin posting in 3, 2, 1...
By DukeN on 8/22/13, Rating: -1
By 91TTZ on 8/22/2013 12:14:26 PM , Rating: 4
If I don't want to pay for someone else's medical procedure that means I'm a bigot?


By ClownPuncher on 8/22/2013 12:30:35 PM , Rating: 2
TBH, I bet he has enough people who idolize him that would willingly donate to his procedure.


By carigis on 8/22/2013 12:39:19 PM , Rating: 3
who cares.. he is not in a country club.. he is in a prison. it will have to wait till he gets out.


By domboy on 8/22/2013 1:24:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
who cares.. he is not in a country club.. he is in a prison. it will have to wait till he gets out.


Exactly. He can wait 35 years.

On top of that... once upon a time we SHOT traitors, or hanged them, or some other form of execution. He should be thanking his lucky stars he's still alive because he was born in the 21st century. But no, he's whining that he can't become a woman while serving what is supposed to be punishment for his crimes!


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/22/2013 1:32:37 PM , Rating: 3
Agreed. He's still technically in the military while he serves his prison term. He doesn't get discharged until AFTER the sentence is served. I don't see any reason he should get special treatment that honorably serving military personnel can't get.


By domboy on 8/22/2013 2:26:09 PM , Rating: 2
Very interesting... I missed the part about the discharge not happening until after the sentence is served.

And it looks like he may be stuck as a he for awhile:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/22/br...


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/22/2013 8:48:15 PM , Rating: 2
Not surprising. The Army isn't going to bend over backwards for this clown, his lawyer is barking up the wrong tree if he thinks he can force them to give this guy what he wants.

He is a prisoner.
He is serving a prison sentence for his crime.
He will serve that sentence for up to 35 years.
He will not get any sort of special treatment.
He can have his gender change AFTER he serves his time for his crime.


By DukeN on 8/22/2013 3:33:56 PM , Rating: 2
Read the argument, this potentially could be considered an 8th Amendment case.

Just because she's transgender doesn't mean everyone gets to skewer her.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/2013 3:44:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Just because she's transgender doesn't mean everyone gets to skewer her .


Isn't that why "she" wants the surgery?

*rimshot*

OOHHHHhhhhhhhh!!! Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week!!!

p.s. I just had to make a joke, because your post was hilarious. 8th Amendment case, lawl!!!


By Cloudie on 8/22/2013 5:09:20 PM , Rating: 2
You don't need surgery to be "skewered". I wonder whether you'd benefit from a good skewering, Reclaimer, it might chill you the fuck down. Mind you, I'm fair, you seem more relaxed in your posts recently; the anger management therapy must be working. :)


By Arsynic on 8/22/2013 3:55:42 PM , Rating: 3
This is how left wing nutjobs further their agenda by immediately branding anyone with an opposing viewpoint as a "bigot". This way they aren't burdened with formulating a logical and compelling case for their point-of-view.

I understand, though. It's hard to put together a logical case when your point of view is purely emotional (i.e. irrational).


By Cloudie on 8/22/2013 4:50:07 PM , Rating: 2
There's 0 logic in homophobia or transphobia. It's sheer idiocy and ignorance.


By retrospooty on 8/23/2013 10:09:35 AM , Rating: 2
"There's 0 logic in homophobia or transphobia. It's sheer idiocy and ignorance."

I think most people agree with you there, and if they don't, they aren't worth speaking to... But this isnt about any sort of homophobia/bigotry at all. It's simply about medical costs in prison. Socially, I am as liberal as they come, anything anyone wants to do that inst hurting anyone else is fair game to me... I am all for people doing whatever they want... But in what planet should a convict's expensive sex change surgery be paid for by the govt?

How can anyone make a case where the prison medical system should foot the bill for this. Part of being in "prison" is a penalty for having committed a crime. It's not a free place, the very definition of it is quite the opposite.


By Cloudie on 8/23/2013 5:30:28 PM , Rating: 2
"I think most people agree with you there"

I hope you're right :)


By domboy on 8/23/2013 10:16:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There's 0 logic in homophobia or transphobia. It's sheer idiocy and ignorance.


Actually, if you think about it logically, there kind of is. Now to preface, let me just state that I don't really care who or even what you want to sleep with.

Homosexuality is a reproductive (and evolutionary) dead end. So as a species, it's logically in our best interest to not be gay.

There is nothing natural about a transsexual human, as until recent technology and medical procedures enabled it, physically switching from one sex to another didn't and couldn't happen to a human. Nature or God (depending on your world view) gave a few creatures the innate ability to do so, but not humans. So I see nothing illogical about considering such a change as strange and unnatural.

Of course what I have written above is now politically incorrect, and we as a society are not allow to think such thoughts. And logic? Well that's a dangerous road to travel...


By retrospooty on 8/23/2013 10:23:43 AM , Rating: 2
Possibly, but humans have risen above nature on many fronts, it's no reason to discriminate. People should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies from piercings, to riding motorcycles without a helmet to sex change... With their own money . Asking the govt. to pay for it is ridiculous, and the legal system arguing for it is beyond ridiculous. At the end of the day, its an elective surgery period.


By domboy on 8/23/2013 11:04:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Possibly, but humans have risen above nature on many fronts, it's no reason to discriminate. People should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies from piercings, to riding motorcycles without a helmet to sex change... With their own money . Asking the govt. to pay for it is ridiculous, and the legal system arguing for it is beyond ridiculous. At the end of the day, its an elective surgery period.


oh I completely agree with you. And I'm not arguing for discrimination. Just the statement I responded to was very ill thought or maybe just poorly worded.


By Cloudie on 8/23/2013 5:12:09 PM , Rating: 2
"Homosexuality is a reproductive (and evolutionary) dead end. So as a species, it's logically in our best interest to not be gay."

Plenty of gay people have biological children. Being gay doesn't make you infertile. :) Moreover, there are many ways to contribute to the species than reproducing. Don't you know Alan Turing? He vastly improved knowledge of computers and AI amongst other things. He was gay. He has done more for our species than you & me times 1000000. No doubt you'd have had him reproducing rather than doing revolutionary science work and breaking enigma codes. ;) Also, all those children rotting in homes by useless heteros need taking care of.

Homophobia is not natural. It is not found anywhere in nature apart from humans. It has no evolutionary or benefit of any kind. Homophobia doesn't stop people being gay. It just makes people more miserable, wastes masses of time, talent and money. It's just a waste of life.

"There is nothing natural about a transsexual human, as until recent technology and medical procedures enabled it, physically switching from one sex to another didn't and couldn't happen to a human. Nature or God (depending on your world view) gave a few creatures the innate ability to do so, but not humans. So I see nothing illogical about considering such a change as strange and unnatural."

You're obsessed with sex change operations lol. Gravestones have been found of humans thousands of years old. A few females have been found buried in the typical graves of males (with weapons etc.) and vice versa. Now did they make a mistake? Or were these people what we now call 'transgendered'? I.e. they lived their lives in the gender and way that felt right to them. there have also been many occasions where 2 people of the same sex buried together like a couple.

"Of course what I have written above is now politically incorrect, and we as a society are not allow to think such thoughts. And logic? Well that's a dangerous road to travel..."

I've no interest how politically correct something is or isn't, personally. Politics isn't all that logical mostly. Religionists and bigots do absolutely anything to stifle and shut down the truth.


By Arsynic on 8/23/2013 12:00:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

There's 0 logic in homophobia or transphobia. It's sheer idiocy and ignorance.

Why is everyone who disagrees with you an x-phobe or a bigot?


By Cloudie on 8/23/2013 5:38:24 PM , Rating: 2
What is there to disagree with? You have no argument. There is no benefit to homophobia lol. Not a single thing. It's just a waste of time/energy/money/resources/talent and human life.


By purerice on 8/28/2013 12:46:27 PM , Rating: 2
You are right there is no benefit to real "homophobia" but the term "homophobia" is all too often thrown around by people who simply want to silence speech that, while they are not offended by, they disagree with but have no valid argument against.

Here's an example: A conversation about policy with a co-worker who happened to be homosexual was interrupted by somebody seemingly heterosexual from outside the conversation who took his words out of context and accused him of homophobia saying "I'm straight but that type of talk is homophobic and intolerant". Who's really being intolerant there?


By MrBlastman on 8/23/2013 1:39:40 PM , Rating: 4
In being scared of them, yes. In disagreeing with their position, no. I'm tired of all this political correctness crap that tells us we must think everything is normal and equal--when in reality, they aren't depending on your perspective.

And that is what is important here to remember--perspective. Not everyone will share the same perspective. The PC crowd will immediately disagree with this notion. In their eyes, there is only one "correct" perspective and they only tolerate that one and none other. This is funny when they preach "tolerance," yet fail so greatly with it.

So, from their perspective, there is only one appropriate view. From others' perspective, there might be another--groups from various religions or social idealogoies. Now, some might argue that these groups are flawed and they very well might be. It doesn't mean they are wrong. They are allowed their own perspective on things and as such, should equally be considered no matter how offensive they might be (within reason).

For instance, Christians and Jews consider homosexuality to be a flawed existence. A deviation from the creators' intention of the body of man. While they (homosexuals) are considered wrapped in sin, the Christians/Jews are still taught to respect them and treat them as they would treat themselves. The Gay rights movement has serious apprehensions towards this. They find it appaling, as much as some (not all) Christians find homosexuals appalling. BOTH of these groups are equally at fault when they err towards the extreme of the issue. Both are bigoted and ignorant. Yes, that means that the LGBT community can be very bigoted. Likewise, at the same time, both the Christian/Jewish/LGBT community can also not be.

Does this make the Gay rights groups correct? No. Does this make the Christians correct? No. Does this mean the gays should be given special treatment? No. Does it mean the Christians should? No.

What it does mean is some sort of common ground should be found. Like it or not, some of this is here to stay. To some of us it can seem quite perverse and we might not agree with it. Equally so, the LGBT community should learn to tolerate these views and not be so forthcoming, open and "in your face" with their presentation of these matters.

Some of us don't give a darn about what they have to say, don't want to hear about it and would rather it be just another facet of an individuals "private life." We don't jump up and down and shout to the world, "Hey, I'm marrying my straight partner, going to adopt lots of children, donate to these charities and put a sticker on my car to showcase my family to the world!" Neither should they, the LGBT community.

Find the common ground, pass Civil Unions and move the term Marriage to the Chuch to only be endowed by a minister and move on. The world will be better off for all groups when this occurs.

One group will receive equality in the eyes of the law and the other groups will not have to hear about it constantly as it is rubbed in their face. That's tolerance and more importantly, normalcy.


By Cloudie on 8/23/2013 5:21:15 PM , Rating: 1
"Now, some might argue that these groups are flawed and they very well might be. It doesn't mean they are wrong"

Cultural Relativism. If you're wrong then you're wrong. End of story. Religion is superstitious nonsense. I respect everyone's right to hold their own opinions and be religious. But you can't use that to diminish other people's rights and demonise others just because some silly old book says so.

"For instance, Christians and Jews consider homosexuality to be a flawed existence"

Sweeping Statement alert. At the end of the day, the old testament says that wearing mixed fibres is a sin, eating shellfish is an abomination, planting 2 different type of crop side by side is a sin. And yet nobody makes a fuss about that. It also says that adulterous women (but not men) must be stoned to death. And yet stoning women to death is illegal...

So why is there this almighty fuss about sexuality? Why don't they protest outside seafood restaurants or outside clothes shops or fields?

Ultimately, it all boils down to how much privilege you believe religion should have in society. I believe it should have none. People should be able to worship as much as they want within the constraints of the law.


By MrBlastman on 8/26/2013 11:59:44 AM , Rating: 2
It is simple. The crux of the entire problem can be summed up by an old old saying: "The square peg doesn't fit in the round hole."

And there you have it.

That's why there is all this fuss. It boils down to the basic reproductive biology of all life on this entire planet. Life exists for a single purpose--to reproduce. If life can't reproduce, it dies off and is replaced by another species.

We're not talking about even religion here despite my use of it as example. We're talking about elementary biology and human, no, mammalian physiology. This is why it has remained an issue for millenia and will continue to be one.

Regardless, Humans are unique amongst other life on this planet in that we share both self-awareness and empathy. Most other life is very non-empathetic to others. While acceptance of a weaker evolution of life (i.e. humans that desire equal sexes) is completely illogical, our empathetic side (in some) sees a need to at least facilitate a pleasant stay on our planet for the odd-century the individual remains here. Thus, to my previous post, civil-unions will provide this accomodation.

Like it or not, though, the biological implications remain and will continue to tug at our psyche for eternity.


Why is this here?
By siconik on 8/22/13, Rating: -1
RE: Why is this here?
By MichalT on 8/22/2013 12:23:02 PM , Rating: 3
It's here because we will click on it. This website's job is to sell us advertising, and anything that causes us to click on links they will post.


RE: Why is this here?
By TSS on 8/22/13, Rating: 0
LMAO
By BSMonitor on 8/22/13, Rating: -1
RE: LMAO
By DukeN on 8/22/2013 10:50:49 AM , Rating: 4
Right, because someone's sexual orientation totally makes them unfit/unqualified to be a hero.


RE: LMAO
By BSMonitor on 8/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: LMAO
By ClownPuncher on 8/22/2013 12:09:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not even seeing a fully formed thought in your post.


RE: LMAO
By retrospooty on 8/23/2013 10:03:09 AM , Rating: 2
YEs, but the issue isnt in his post ;)


"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997














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