quote: My solution is not to waste trillions on dollars on a problem that doesn't even exist, especially when the "action" we take might ultimately be harmful.
quote: Why not actually READ the Kyoto Protocol sometime, instead of accepting the spoonfed media version of it?
quote: Yes, and the Kyoto Treaty is the action plan by which rabid environmentalists are attempting to convince us we can prevent it.
quote: Higher efficiency is always good. Reduction of waste is good. But if you're trying to claim that's all the global warming action crew is advocating then you, sir, are sadly mistaken.
quote: The issue is-- as you point out-- global warming, not "dependence on oil". So let's be honest...I'm not skirting any issue, its you who want to change the subject.
quote: We build a couple dozen "pebble-bed" style nuclear reactors around the nation, and use the resultant energy to either catalyze water into hydrogen. We convert our vehicles over to hydrogen, and burn it instead. End of problem.
quote: How do we reduce our depending on oil? We build a couple dozen "pebble-bed" style nuclear reactors around the nation, and use the resultant energy to either catalyze water into hydrogen. We convert our vehicles over to hydrogen, and burn it instead. End of problem.
quote: No, because its incorrect. There are less than 1 vehicle per capita in the US
quote: No scientist who believes in a global warming catastrophe has to "fight"
quote: That falls into the category of efficiency
quote: I have a 6500 sq. foot home
quote: nothing to do with SUVs.
quote: Of course it is. Do you own a car yourself? If you do, then you're a hypocrite. If not, then feel free to criticize the rest of us.
quote: I summed up in my post below</quote
Yes, you summed up and intrepreted. I read the bloody thing too and it made no mention that your point of view was fact, it didn't. It was about being skeptical and what you've written so far seems to be in concrete.
Still atttacking on small points though hmm. I wonder how close my other questions were to the mark?
quote: I've given countless facts, data, quotes, logical arguments, and sources in this thread
quote: I suggest you check ...
quote: you're proposing we REPLACE our network of roads
quote: Oops, you've confused Socialism with Communism. Not the same thing at all.
...Observational evidence does not support today's computer climate models, so there is little reason to trust model predictions of the future. Yet this is precisely what the United Nations did in creating and promoting Kyoto and still does in the alarmist forecasts on which Canada's climate policies are based...
"Climate change is real" is a meaningless phrase used repeatedly by activists to convince the public that a climate catastrophe is looming and humanity is the cause. Neither of these fears is justified. Global climate changes all the time due to natural causes and the human impact still remains impossible to distinguish from this natural "noise."...
Dr. Ian D. Clark, professor, isotope hydrogeology and paleoclimatology, Dept. of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa
Dr. Tad Murty, former senior research scientist, Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans, former director of Australia's National Tidal Facility and professor of earth sciences, Flinders University, Adelaide; currently adjunct professor, Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa
Dr. R. Timothy Patterson, professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences (paleoclimatology), Carleton University, Ottawa
Dr. Fred Michel, director, Institute of Environmental Science and associate professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences, Carleton University, Ottawa
Dr. Madhav Khandekar, former research scientist, Environment Canada. Member of editorial board of Climate Research and Natural Hazards
Dr. Paul Copper, FRSC, professor emeritus, Dept. of Earth Sciences, Laurentian University, Sudbury, Ont.
Dr. Ross McKitrick, associate professor, Dept. of Economics, University of Guelph, Ont.
Dr. Tim Ball, former professor of climatology, University of Winnipeg; environmental consultant
Dr. Andreas Prokoph, adjunct professor of earth sciences, University of Ottawa; consultant in statistics and geology
Mr. David Nowell, M.Sc. (Meteorology), fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society, Canadian member and past chairman of the NATO Meteorological Group, Ottawa
Dr. Christopher Essex, professor of applied mathematics and associate director of the Program in Theoretical Physics, University of Western Ontario, London, Ont.
Dr. Gordon E. Swaters, professor of applied mathematics, Dept. of Mathematical Sciences, and member, Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Research Group, University of Alberta
Dr. L. Graham Smith, associate professor, Dept. of Geography, University of Western Ontario, London, Ont.
Dr. G. Cornelis van Kooten, professor and Canada Research Chair in environmental studies and climate change, Dept. of Economics, University of Victoria
Dr. Petr Chylek, adjunct professor, Dept. of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, Halifax
Dr./Cdr. M. R. Morgan, FRMS, climate consultant, former meteorology advisor to the World Meteorological Organization. Previously research scientist in climatology at University of Exeter, U.K.
Dr. Keith D. Hage, climate consultant and professor emeritus of Meteorology, University of Alberta
Dr. David E. Wojick, P.Eng., energy consultant, Star Tannery, Va., and Sioux Lookout, Ont.
Rob Scagel, M.Sc., forest microclimate specialist, principal consultant, Pacific Phytometric Consultants, Surrey, B.C.
Dr. Douglas Leahey, meteorologist and air-quality consultant, Calgary
Paavo Siitam, M.Sc., agronomist, chemist, Cobourg, Ont.
Dr. Chris de Freitas, climate scientist, associate professor, The University of Auckland, N.Z.
Dr. Richard S. Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan professor of meteorology, Dept. of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Dr. Freeman J. Dyson, emeritus professor of physics, Institute for Advanced Studies, Princeton, N.J.
Mr. George Taylor, Dept. of Meteorology, Oregon State University; Oregon State climatologist; past president, American Association of State Climatologists
Dr. Ian Plimer, professor of geology, School of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Adelaide; emeritus professor of earth sciences, University of Melbourne, Australia
Dr. R.M. Carter, professor, Marine Geophysical Laboratory, James Cook University, Townsville, Australia
Mr. William Kininmonth, Australasian Climate Research, former Head National Climate Centre, Australian Bureau of Meteorology; former Australian delegate to World Meteorological Organization Commission for Climatology, Scientific and Technical Review
Dr. Hendrik Tennekes, former director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute
Dr. Gerrit J. van der Lingen, geologist/paleoclimatologist, Climate Change Consultant, Geoscience Research and Investigations, New Zealand
Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, professor of environmental sciences, University of Virginia
Dr. Nils-Axel Morner, emeritus professor of paleogeophysics & geodynamics, Stockholm University, Stockholm, Sweden
Dr. Gary D. Sharp, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas, Calif.
Dr. Roy W. Spencer, principal research scientist, Earth System Science Center, The University of Alabama, Huntsville
Dr. Al Pekarek, associate professor of geology, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences Dept., St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, Minn.
Dr. Marcel Leroux, professor emeritus of climatology, University of Lyon, France; former director of Laboratory of Climatology, Risks and Environment, CNRS
Dr. Paul Reiter, professor, Institut Pasteur, Unit of Insects and Infectious Diseases, Paris, France. Expert reviewer, IPCC Working group II, chapter 8 (human health)
Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski, physicist and chairman, Scientific Council of Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection, Warsaw, Poland
Dr. Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen, reader, Dept. of Geography, University of Hull, U.K.; editor, Energy & Environment
Dr. Hans H.J. Labohm, former advisor to the executive board, Clingendael Institute (The Netherlands Institute of International Relations) and an economist who has focused on climate change
Dr. Lee C. Gerhard, senior scientist emeritus, University of Kansas, past director and state geologist, Kansas Geological Survey
Dr. Asmunn Moene, past head of the Forecasting Centre, Meteorological Institute, Norway
Dr. August H. Auer, past professor of atmospheric science, University of Wyoming; previously chief meteorologist, Meteorological Service (MetService) of New Zealand
Dr. Vincent Gray, expert reviewer for the IPCC and author of The Greenhouse Delusion: A Critique of 'Climate Change 2001,' Wellington, N.Z.
Dr. Howard Hayden, emeritus professor of physics, University of Connecticut
Dr Benny Peiser, professor of social anthropology, Faculty of Science, Liverpool John Moores University, U.K.
Dr. Jack Barrett, chemist and spectroscopist, formerly with Imperial College London, U.K.
Dr. William J.R. Alexander, professor emeritus, Dept. of Civil and Biosystems Engineering, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Member, United Nations Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, 1994-2000
Dr. S. Fred Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences, University of Virginia; former director, U.S. Weather Satellite Service
Dr. Harry N.A. Priem, emeritus professor of planetary geology and isotope geophysics, Utrecht University; former director of the Netherlands Institute for Isotope Geosciences; past president of the Royal Netherlands Geological & Mining Society
Dr. Robert H. Essenhigh, E.G. Bailey professor of energy conversion, Dept. of Mechanical Engineering, The Ohio State University
Dr. Sallie Baliunas, astrophysicist and climate researcher, Boston, Mass.
Douglas Hoyt, senior scientist at Raytheon (retired) and co-author of the book The Role of the Sun in Climate Change; previously with NCAR, NOAA, and the World Radiation Center, Davos, Switzerland
Dipl.-Ing. Peter Dietze, independent energy advisor and scientific climate and carbon modeller, official IPCC reviewer, Bavaria, Germany
Dr. Boris Winterhalter, senior marine researcher (retired), Geological Survey of Finland, former professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, Finland
Dr. Wibjorn Karlen, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden
Dr. Hugh W. Ellsaesser, physicist/meteorologist, previously with the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Calif.; atmospheric consultant.
Dr. Art Robinson, founder, Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, Cave Junction, Ore.
Dr. Arthur Rorsch, emeritus professor of molecular genetics, Leiden University, The Netherlands; past board member, Netherlands organization for applied research (TNO) in environmental, food and public health
Dr. Alister McFarquhar, Downing College, Cambridge, U.K.; international economist
Dr. Richard S. Courtney, climate and atmospheric science consultant, IPCC expert reviewer, U.K.
quote: published in many different publication
quote: It has become common to deal with the science by referring to the IPCC ‘scientific cconsensus.’ Claiming the agreement of thousands of scientists is certainly easier than trying to understand the issue or to respond to scientific questions; it also effectively intimidates most citizens...
In truth, neither the full text of theIPCC documents nor even the summaries claim any such agreement [of scientific consensus]...
The media reports rarely reflect what is actually in the IPCC Summary...The media’s emphasis on increased storminess, rising sea levels, etc. is based not on any science, but rather on th efact that such features have more graphic impact.
The summary does not reflect the full document....
The vast majority of participants played no role in preparing the summary, and were not asked for agreement .
The preparation of the report, itself, was subject to pressure [from] IPCC 'coordinators' who insisted [that]criticism of models be toned down , and that ‘motherhood’ statements be inserted to the effect that models might still be correct despite the cited faults...
quote: im sure that whoever was reading the tree ring isotopes were inclined to slant the results so that we could all blame bush personally for all the evil smog he has generated
quote: Yeah... And I'm sure God put those isotopes there to test our faith too, right?
quote: HA! Religion tends to breed ignorance. Which is the point, an ignorant populace is far easier to manage and guide.
quote: If we can develop these technologies and then bring them to earth we might have a chance to save the planet.
quote: I'm still waiting for someone to prove that the planet needs saving.
quote: By masher2 on 6/23/2006 11:14:28 AM
First of all, the entire North Pole could melt, and not change sea levels by a millimeter. Floating ice doesn't have an effect.
quote: Definition of "melting":
"In physics, melting is the process of heating a solid substance to a point (called the melting point) where it turns liquid." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting]
Therefore, the ice-cap melting would liberate a volume of liquid water slightly less than the original volume of ice (because ice is approx. 8% less dense than liquid water [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice]).
But, according to masher2, melted ice is still somehow frozen, even though that's the exact opposite of what any normal, reasonably literate person would understand by the term.
Such an elementary mistake doesn't inspire confidence in the rest of his claims, does it?
quote: The Gulfstream has already been shown to be slowing down due to climate-change, and if it stops (as seems likely) the UK will have winters similar to Alaska. Much of Western Europe will be affected by the shutdown of the Gulfstream from the Carribean.
quote: 4 centuries???...BullCrap, they don't even have an accurate record of temps going back past 100 years.
quote: even by looking at paintings of glaciers from several hundred years ago, and trying to estimate what temperature would result in a glacier that size (lets hope the artist was accurate, eh?)
quote: Long-term trends are more important than short-term trends.)
quote: Ambiguous scientific statements about climate are hyped by those with a vested interest in alarm...Scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their grant funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves libeled as industry stooges, scientific hacks or worse...
In 1992, [Senator Gore] ran two congressional hearings during which he tried to bully dissenting scientists, including myself, into changing our views and supporting his climate alarmism. In Europe, Henk Tennekes was dismissed as research director of the Royal Dutch Meteorological Society after questioning the scientific underpinnings of global warming. Aksel Winn-Nielsen, former director of the U.N.'s World Meteorological Organization, was tarred as a [tool] of the coal industry for questioning climate alarmism....Respected Italian professors Alfonso Sutera and Antonio Speranza [lost their funding] for raising questions...
In 2003, when the U.S. National Climate Plan urged a high priority for improving our knowledge of climate sensitivity, the NRC instead urged support to look at the impacts of the warming--not whether it would actually happen...
quote: Maybe you want to step up and explain it for us laymen without using links. Come on, if you try really hard you can do it. You might fail, I'm sure you will, but hey, all you have to lose is your image as a smartass.
quote: Another way of saying that, more than 1,000 years ago, the world was warmer than it is now
quote: the National Academy of Scientists is the politically-charged group
quote: The new analysis confirms that the Arctic Ocean warmed remarkably 55 million years ago, which is when many scientists say that the extraordinary planetwide warm-up called the Paleocene Eocene Thermal Maximum, or PETM, must have been caused by a massive outburst of greenhouse gases like methane and carbon dioxide. But no one has found a clear cause for the gas discharge...
quote: If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger, eh? By the way, still waiting for your list of "respected scientists" on the space exploration thread.
quote: Another way of saying that, more than 1,000 years ago, the world was warmer than it is now.
quote: Naturally warmer. And humanity survived just fine.
quote: You never tire of being wrong, do you?