Print 31 comment(s) - last by Lord Evermore.. on Dec 20 at 5:48 AM

Researchers from the Seoul National University have claimed they have been able to clone both female and male dogs

A former co-worker of now disgraced South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-suk yesterday claimed that he has successfully cloned a female dog.  According to Lee Byeong-chun, a veterinary professor at Seoul National University, an Afghan hound named Bona was born on June 18.  Two more of the same breed were born later, according to Lee.  DNA tests have reportedly shown that all three of the female dogs are clones of one another.  Scientists used 167 reconstructed embryos which were implanted into 12 surrogate mothers to produce the three dogs.

Snuppy, the first male cloned dog, was also created by Seoul National University researchers in 2005.

Scientists have stated that dogs are one of the more difficult animals to clone due to their complex reproductive cycles.  Researchers now hope that the cloned female and cloned male dogs of the same breed will be able to reproduce.  Lee said:  "This is being done to advance medical research and it is not yet intended for people to clone their pets."

The findings have been published in the Theriogenology veterinary journal.

Lee served a three-month suspension from the Seoul National University for his role in a stem cell controversy that surrounded Woo-suk's demise as a scientist earlier this year.  Lee is currently on trial on charges of misappropriating research funds during the scandal.

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By thebrown13 on 12/19/2006 2:20:27 AM , Rating: 4
"clone a bitch"

RE: lol
By Eomer of Aldburg on 12/19/2006 2:23:50 AM , Rating: 1
I think cloning is cool. Would be really cool to see what 2 cloned animals create.

RE: lol
By copiedright on 12/19/2006 2:49:06 AM , Rating: 2
Most likely the exact same thing the two original animals would make.

And you can't breed two of the same cloned animals because they would both me of the same sex. I don't think you meant that in your comment but for some reason that's how I read it.

RE: lol
By h0kiez on 12/19/2006 8:10:01 AM , Rating: 2
I think he's referring to breeding "Snuppy" with one of these 3 female clones.

RE: lol
By zinfamous on 12/19/2006 10:15:25 AM , Rating: 2
You can clone a female and clone a male, then bred those 2 cloned animals. I believe that's what he meant.

Problem is, cloned animals are sterile. (If I remember correctly) So, good luck with that.

RE: lol
By masher2 on 12/19/2006 11:02:38 AM , Rating: 3
The reason they cloned a female is to verify whether or not it has normal reproductive capabilities.

RE: lol
By rushfan2006 on 12/19/2006 11:10:06 AM , Rating: 3
This site is so aggravating lately...have to click post like 4 times before it "takes" an what not.....


I only support cloning for one thing and one thing only -- cloning vital organs. If we could perfect making perfectly healthy, strong organs for transplant operations that would be very cool IMHO.

However to go as far as cloning actual human beings...that is freaky on so many levels I can't even explain....

Not to mention it conflicts with my personal moral/ethical compass to an uncomfortable degree.

And the reason (to address a poster's comment) people don't just "charge in" and easily accept something like Stem Cell research is there is a huge debate on the morals, ethics and for some -- religious beliefs on whether it is "right" or not....

RE: lol
By masher2 on 12/19/06, Rating: 0
RE: lol
By rushfan2006 on 12/19/2006 12:57:20 PM , Rating: 2
Probably because I just think if you look at the issue simply there is no issue, however things are never simple--things are never as neat and nice as drawn out on paper.

The cop out answer would be well that's exactly why -- because nature is the NATURAL way that our species intended life to be created (and its more accurate to say its NOT cloning when talking about the natural birth process....(from conception to delivery I mean) ).

However for me I think of the social/relationship ramifications it would have in the long term for our god look at how easily desensitized our culture has already become with say....drugs and killing. People get shot today, and even a 15 year kid is like "yeah that did you get a PS3?".....imagine just cloning people, and remember full bore cloning means there is no "parents". Its not like invetro fertilization (however you spell it)...there is no sperm and egg donation from designated parents, in the normal sense we think of as "parents"....there is no emotional attachment required with the "child" that is clone.

To me that is just wrong...and if anyone requires more explaination as to why that is wrong...that in and of itself is also wrong.

Its like asking why shooting someone in the face is wrong regardless if they deserved it or not...because it just IS.

Then there is the whole dark thought of making a clone army of slaves and servants like some twisted sci-fi movie. Or how about cloning yourself sex slaves?

RE: lol
By masher2 on 12/19/2006 1:02:46 PM , Rating: 1
> ""full bore cloning means there is no "parents"...there is no emotional attachment required with the "child" that is clone."...

Cloning means there is one parent, not two. And I don't see why that parent would have any less of an emotional attachment to the child than anyone in a single-parent home today.

Part of the problem is the Hollywood image of cloning as creating a full-grown human, right from some lexan tank. In reality, it merely creates a foetus, which isn't distinguishable from one created through the normal process of fertilization. A foetus which becomes a child, and must grow up just like any other baby.

RE: lol
By rushfan2006 on 12/19/2006 2:15:57 PM , Rating: 2
Even is not natural, it goes against the grain of my moral and ethical convictions ...convictions founded in an Christian upbringing and then strengthened on my own through my life experiences that helped me form my own deep seated views of what is in fact, "wrong" or/and "right".

RE: lol
By Jellodyne on 12/19/06, Rating: -1
RE: lol
By Lord Evermore on 12/20/2006 5:34:00 AM , Rating: 1
Despite your giving evidence that proves I don't have a rational foundation for my views, I'm going to stand by them.

You're entitled to your opinion, but don't make them sound like facts.

If a person makes the effort to go get cloned so that they can have a child, more than likely they're going to be just as emotionally attached as if they'd had a natural conception. Surrogate mothers are used all the time, and the parents don't love the kid any less. Men just get laid, they don't have to carry the kid around for 9 months, but they're generally still emotionally attached.

Granted there ARE situations where the attachment issue would come up, like using cloning to make slaves or to harvest black market organs (or legal ones if you know the story) or something like that, but nearly everything we do has possible downsides or ways it could be misused. That's why we have laws and punishments and deterrents so that those situations can be controlled and occur less often. People are going to do things that violate your moral Christian code, whether it's cloning babies especially for reasons other than having a child, or rape and murder, robbery, blaspheming, homosexuality, liberalism, worshipping other gods, body piercing, whatever.

But you're also just plain against it because it's not natural (you have any idea how much of your life isn't natural?) and goes against what you and your pastors think the Bible says you should feel about it. There's just no way to argue with that. But I'd have more respect if somebody just said they didn't like cloning because it gave them the heebie-jeebies, than invoking religious values with zero support behind it.

RE: lol
By Lord Evermore on 12/20/2006 5:22:28 AM , Rating: 2
You going to raise the kid to adulthood so that you can have sex with him when you're 50? Unless you mean somebody illicitly running a cloning lab and you could get a clone made that wouldn't be registered, no birth certificate or anything, in which case the wait could be shorter than is socially acceptable. Those will exist if cloning a human does ever become feasible, whether there are legal options for getting cloned or not.

RE: lol
By oTAL on 12/19/2006 2:52:09 PM , Rating: 3

By rushfan2006 on 12/19/2006 11:10:06 AM
This site is so aggravating lately...have to click post like 4 times before it "takes" an what not.....

That happened to me to.
I found out why it happens 90% of the times. All you have to do to avoid it is let the preview window finish loading before you click post. :)
I guess they call it preview because you have to read it... =)
You better rate me up to heaven on this one cause I started saving a lot of reloads after figuring this out ;)

RE: lol
By oTAL on 12/19/2006 2:47:24 PM , Rating: 2
"Problem is, cloned animals are sterile. (If I remember correctly) So, good luck with that."

Where do you guys get these things? Is that a confusion with hybrids?

A clone can be sterile alright... as it can be born with other problems due to (yet) some imperfection in the process. More probably, the clone is as sexually capable as the original animal.

P.S. Even Dolly had children.. check it out... ;)

RE: lol
By Lord Evermore on 12/19/2006 2:51:01 AM , Rating: 1
Just what we need, more bitches.

Why is cloning a female dog such a revelutionary thing compared to male? Do they all sense that they'll come out wearing the same thing and just stay inside sulking? :-D (Yes I know that the clones will look very different due to the way fur develops.)

And I thought quite a lot of mammals, even most of them, had "complex" cycles.

RE: lol
By darith27 on 12/19/2006 11:24:54 AM , Rating: 2
That's an awesome life achievement, I would love to say that "I cloned a bitch" or "I clone bitches for a living."

RE: lol
By pillagenburn on 12/19/2006 2:31:59 PM , Rating: 3
is Wayne Brady gonna have to clone a bitch?

By YanBiz on 12/19/2006 10:19:12 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps my beloved companion will be able to be recreated in a few years.
I am curious as to what the behavior patterns would be with a normally conceived dog vs. a clone of the same dog.

Cloning is advanced science, and science is the future, it does not make sense that people view cloning and stem cell research as such a horrid practice, in my humble opinion I think that scientists should be fully backed by the government when researching such matters. Even if the people of the world have a problem with such things, it is still extremely important research. We are, after all, trying to better the planet and ourselves through research, science, and health care.
Just my opinions, feel free to comment

RE: sweet?
By straycat74 on 12/19/2006 10:47:28 AM , Rating: 2
There are ethical considerations to medical research. Take the research that Hitler had done in the concentration camps for instance. Experimenting on humans is unethical, but we could advance science and medicine. Are cloned people really people? How about the fact that adult stem cell research has produced better results than embryonic? Discuss.

RE: sweet?
By masher2 on 12/19/2006 11:04:44 AM , Rating: 1
> "Are cloned people really people?"

Why wouldn't they be? There are already millions of cloned human beings alive today...identical twins, cloned by Mother Nature herself.

RE: sweet?
By Lord Evermore on 12/20/2006 5:43:23 AM , Rating: 2
That's not a valid comparison to some people, because twins are "natural" clones, and referring to "mother nature" is idol worshipping, and twins are created because God wanted it to happen, but doing it in a lab is a violation of his will. Since you know, the Bible is very clear that you shouldn't fiddle with DNA and try to improve people's lives. People who believe that are like middle of the road, with us on one side, and the other side being people who think everything we do is pretty much a sin against God.

RE: sweet?
By Lord Evermore on 12/20/2006 5:48:44 AM , Rating: 2
Cloning is advanced science, and science is the future

Some people are afraid of change. Some are afraid they'll lose the power they have that is based on present-day technology. And some people think the future is coming too fast. Or they think we've already gone too far than is good for our collective physical and mental health and overall wellbeing. Or have done things that God didn't intend and for which he will eventually punish us (rather than saying "oh, I should have been more clear, maybe actually intervened and let you know in person instead of having some guys in robes and big hats tell you once I saw that you weren't sure of the veracity of the message, you shouldn't have done that, I'll try to warn you better from now on, sorry about that lightning").

Cloned Food
By Devenish on 12/19/2006 10:12:30 AM , Rating: 2
... and then they ate it.

RE: Cloned Food
By johnsonx on 12/19/2006 1:11:40 PM , Rating: 2
... and then they ate it.

That's terrible, you should be ashamed of yourself!

Oh, who am I kidding? LOL!

RE: Cloned Food
By lealwai on 12/19/2006 9:01:37 PM , Rating: 2
hmm, could this be the start of a new delicacy. designer dish dogs? (for those that dont kno, koreans DO eat dog)

RE: Cloned Food
By Lord Evermore on 12/20/2006 5:39:08 AM , Rating: 2
Once they find that perfectly delicious pup, it's only a matter of time before they're selling it to every restaurant in the country.

That's actually the kind of thing some industries are interested in cloning for. Imagine being able to sell everyone the same perfect steak. Or getting a police dog with the perfect temperament and ability and being able to sell it to every precinct. I don't know how fully those are feasible, since the steak taste might depend too much on the exact conditions the cow is raised in (unless they actually manage the idea of just growing independent slabs of meat, which could be done in laboratory conditions so they'd always be the same). The dog thing might also take a little while longer, so that they could be sure that it's the dog's genetics that predispose him to being a good police dog and not just the right training.

even more faithful cloning
By Lord Evermore on 12/19/2006 2:53:51 AM , Rating: 2
Every woman should store up a bunch of her eggs for future generations to use. That way if any of her descendents needs to be cloned, they can use eggs which have the same mitochondrial DNA (or very close to it due to mutations if they used eggs and cells from many generations apart), thus making them almost perfectly exact clones.

By bwave on 12/19/2006 7:36:47 AM , Rating: 2
Well, ain't that a bitch!

more food...
By InternetGeek on 12/19/2006 8:46:28 AM , Rating: 2
Mustard, Sauer Kraut... yep, Korea is aiming for its Agricultural independence...

"We basically took a look at this situation and said, this is bullshit." -- Newegg Chief Legal Officer Lee Cheng's take on patent troll Soverain
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