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  (Source: intomobile)
Amazon's experiment appears to be a resounding success

Everyone knows that Apple Inc.'s (AAPL) iPad has been a critical sales success [1][2][3][4].  And most will recall that Google Inc.'s (GOOG) Android operating floundered in early 2011, growing slower than expected.

I. Kindle Fire Cools Off Red-Hot Apple

However, the IDC Group brings surprising news that Android is finally starting to do in the tablet space what it has done in the smartphone space -- gobble up Apple's market share.

Apple shipped 110.5 percent more tablets in Q4 2011 than in Q4 2010 -- 15.4m units, to be precise.  Still, its gleaming success was spoiled by Android newcomer, Inc. (AMZN), whose budget-friendly Kindle Fire exploded onto the scene.  Despite selling almost exclusively in the U.S., the Kindle Fire moved 4.7 million units in Q4 2011 -- almost a third of the volume of Apple.

The Kindle Fire was on fire in Q4 2012, moving a third the tablet volume of Apple.

It's not surprising to see a fresh face helping to carry Android to the top.  After all, Android's initial smartphone surge was led by HTC Corp. (TPE:2498), a company that rose from obscurity to become a household name.  Still, the story in the tablet space is a bit different.

Whereas HTC grabbed its piece of the smartphone market by beating Apple hardware-wise in many ways, with high-end handsets, Amazon's approach has been the opposite.  It debuted a 7-inch tablet at the very low price of $199 USD.

The launch of the 7-inch Kindle Fire was seen as a gamble.  Amazon crafted its own custom branch of Android for the tablet, a move that could easily have backfired.  However, the device was buoyed by its strong hardware sheet for its price, with a Texas Instruments, Inc. (TXN) 1.0 GHz OMAP 4 4430 dual-core CPU and a sporty PowerVR SGX540 GPU from Imagination Technologies Plc. (LON:IMG).  While not exactly Earth-shattering from a price agnostic perspective, for a sub-$200 device, that's a pretty mean hardware spec.

[Note: There's likely to be some debate over whether the heavily modified Kindle Fire branch of Android is truly Android, given that Google does not directly maintain it.  However, given the amount of code exchange between Google and its open source partners and Amazon, a fair argument could be made that the IDC's labelling is accurate -- from a certain perspective, at least.  That said, Google doesn't count it in its activated device totals and Amazon does not use the word "Android" in its marketing language, other than to call its App Store "App Store for Android".]

Of course, that also means that Amazon's profit margin on the device was likely almost nonexistent, versus Apple's posh margin, which reaches hundreds of dollars per device.  If you combined market share with profitability Apple's effective market share would like rise to over 95 percent.  In other words, Android may be outgrowing it, but it's still making a killing.

II. Android on the Rise

In Q4 2011 Android soared from 32.3 percent of the market to 44.6 percent of the market, driving Apple down from 61.6 percent of the market to 54.7 percent of the market.  Meanwhile, Canada's Research in Motion, Ltd. (TSE:RIM) saw sales of its PlayBook tablet take an even deeper turn for the worse, with its market share collapsing from 1.1 to 0.7 percent.  RIM recently effectively fired its long-time co-CEOs for poor performance.  And Hewlett Packard, Comp. (HPQ) -- a solid second place after its TouchPad webOS tablet clearance -- completed its planned abandonment of the tablet market, dropping to 0 percent of sales.

webOS is dead
webOS tablet sales = dead, after HP abandoned lucrative market. [Image Source: Gigaom]

Android's gains came almost exclusively on the back of the Kindle Fire.  Outside of the Fire, the only other major Android tablet maker to see growth was Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KS:005930) who managed an anemic push from 5.5 to 5.8 percent.  The picture was not great for Samsung, the world's largest Android smartphone maker.  Sales of the Galaxy Tab lineup were slightly affected globally by Apple's international lawsuit campaign that led to temporary sales bans in some regions [1][2].  However, most buyers overall just didn't seem that interested in the Tabs, versus their fascination with the budget Amazon Android.  

Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1
The Samsung Galaxy Tab family saw anemic sales growth in Q4 [Images Source: 9to5Google]

Barnes & Noble Inc. (BKS) -- another budget Android tablet-maker -- actually fell in market share, failing to capture the same spark of the Kindle Fire.  Its Nook tablet did not fare well in holiday sales, priced at $250.  The decline prompted Barnes & Noble to cut the price of its Nook to $199 USD this month.

Tom Mainelli, research director, Mobile Connected Devices states, "As the sole vendor shipping iOS products, Apple will remain dominant in terms of worldwide vendor unit shipments.  However, the sheer number of vendors shipping low-priced, Android-based tablets means that Google's OS will overtake Apple's in terms of worldwide market share by 2015. We expect iOS to remain the revenue market share leader through the end of our 2016 forecast period and beyond."

The IDC Group is now predicting Android to pass iOS in tablet market share by 2015.  

IDC tablet predictions
The IDC thinks Android tablets will pass the iPad in 2015. [Image Source: IDC]

The firm's charts completely dismiss the major new player that will be coming to the market later this year -- tablets powered by Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) Windows 8.  The IDC does not even mention Windows 8 tablets or give any reasoning for the seeming snub.

III. e-Reader Shipments Also Get Bump 

Overall tablets finished 2011 on a high note.  Worldwide sales were estimated to be 28.2m units -- up 56.1 percent from Q3 2011 and 155 percent from Q4 2010.  The surge helped push 2011 tablet shipments to 68.7m units and inspired the IDC Group to increase their 2012 estimate from 87.7m units to 106.1m units.

e-Paper readers also saw a surprising holiday surge -- another win for Amazon.  Kobo, Inc. (a subsidiary of Rakuten, Inc. (TYO:8842)) and Barnes & Noble also were top performers in this segment.  Unit sales rose to 10.7m units, up 64.3 percent from 6.5m units in Q3 2011, and up 64.6 percent on a year-over-year basis. The IDC Group expects sustained growth in 2012, fueled by international markets.

Kindle on the beach
Kindle e-Readers sold well in Q4 2011, just like their Android "big brother".
[Image Source: Amazon]

Amazon should relish its victories, but it must also refocus itself for a tough fight in 2012.  Apple's iPad 3 is shaping up to be a sales monster.  At this point Apple's biggest problem appears to be that it can't produce enough of the devices to keep up with demand.

Source: IDC Group [press release]

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By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 12:08:26 PM , Rating: 4
I just dont see how Samsung and Apple and several others can continue to sell $500 to $700 tablets when $200 alternatives that are almost as good saturate the market. The lower end ones arent quite as good, but 95% of buyers only need internet, email and a few apps, and for that, the cheaper ones are just as good.

By kmmatney on 3/14/2012 12:17:51 PM , Rating: 1
Well, I tried going cheap and bought a Nook Color - rooted it, etc.. It sucked. Luckily I was able to Ebay it for what I paid (rooting it added value), and bought an iPad 2. It is worth every penny over the Nook. The Kindle Fire is no doubt better than the Nook, but I still wouldn't touch it. Better to spen d more, and get something that is actually enjoyable to use. A cheap tablet may be able to browse the internet, but that doesn't make it enjoyable.

By Reclaimer77 on 3/14/2012 12:26:20 PM , Rating: 3
Uhhh you should try a Kindle Fire before you make assumptions. I can do more than use the web, a lot more. And it's very enjoyable. The Nook isn't even close.

The Kindle, however, is no iPad2. But with the Kindle Fire I do have the advantage of increased portability. With the aspect ratio form factor and smaller screen, it can even fit in my coat pocket.

There are areas where I do run into limitations though. Mainly the lack of a camera or at least a built in mic for my Skype calls. But for $200, I can't really hold those against it.

By theapparition on 3/14/2012 1:16:17 PM , Rating: 2
Uhhh you should try a Kindle Fire before you make assumptions. I can do more than use the web, a lot more. And it's very enjoyable. The Nook isn't even close.

The Nook Color, when ROM'd is a year older and yet still better than the Kindle Fire. The Nook Tablet has even better hardware specs.

But to get that functionality, you have to run a custom ROM, which is beyond what most are interested in doing. Out of the box, the Fire offers similar functionality to the Nook Color/Tablet, albeit with a better market. That's the real difference. Amazon has a much larger library of movies and music. B&N actually has a larger selection of books.

But with a custom ROM on the Nook, you can get better hardware, with access to not only Amazon's content, but also access to the full Android Marketplace (play).

By Solandri on 3/14/2012 6:33:28 PM , Rating: 2
A lot of technophiles vastly underestimate just how big a barrier to entry a custom ROM is. Installing a custom ROM on a Nook Color is dirt simple - you download a program and a file onto your computer, stick in your microSD card, run the program, then stick the microSD card in the NC and reboot.

Yet people are still willing to pay $20-$30 for a microSD card with the ROM "pre-installed" on it. It boggles my mind, but that's the way it is. The custom ROM developers need to "get this" if they want to capture a significant portion of the market the way FOSS projects like Firefox has done. There's a reason jailbreaking an iPhone was simplified down to the point where you visit a web page and click on a button. Simplicity sells.

By StanO360 on 3/14/2012 4:53:27 PM , Rating: 2
The bigger point is not whether or not the extra $300-$400 dollars is "worth it", the point is that for many people the tablet experience as a whole is not worth that much.

We haven't missed the mic, would be nice, but really who are we Skyping all the time and with the laptop within arm's length away why bother? Though the mic would be nice for some apps.

I like to read with the Fire, it would be a nuisance on the iPad due to it's size.

By TakinYourPoints on 3/15/2012 12:59:49 AM , Rating: 3
If the primary use is reading then I recommend people pass on the Fire and the iPad, and that they just get a Kindle e-reader instead. e-Paper > LCD for reading, period.

Even with the new iPad and its insane display incoming, I am still certain that I would choose to read books on my Kindle. Some people don't like the idea of "single use" devices anymore but I believe that the Kindle reader is one of the few that is truly justified.

For applications, media, internet, etc etc, obviously the iPad would be the way to go. Fortunately both are super light and thing so I just travel with both in my bag, no big deal.

By Dan Banana on 3/18/2012 11:06:08 PM , Rating: 2
If the primary use is reading then I recommend people pass on the Fire and the iPad, and that they just get a Kindle e-reader instead. e-Paper > LCD for reading, period.

Those don't have any back lighting though do they? I don't want to turn a light on to read a book when it's a little dim in the area. Reading on a Fire is very good as it has a good quality display.

By geddarkstorm on 3/14/2012 12:42:33 PM , Rating: 2
The Nook Color (which I have) is a 600-800 mhz single core machine. Any dual core will blow its pants off, like the Fire.

That said, if you flash a Nook Color with Cyanogenmod ICS nightly builds, it'll run better than ever. ICS is so much better than gingerbread, it's almost hilarious.

By theapparition on 3/14/2012 1:17:53 PM , Rating: 2
Many of the builds will also let you OC to 1.2GHz.

ICS does shine.

By Samus on 3/14/2012 1:38:35 PM , Rating: 2
reading this article on my touchpad makes me wonder, yet again, why HP abandoned this.

By techhappy on 3/15/2012 3:04:09 AM , Rating: 2
According to some inside knowledge I have, HP is not totally abandoning touchpads. Instead they are looking to redesign something aimed more at commercial applications, not the consumer market.

By SanLC504 on 3/14/2012 12:22:14 PM , Rating: 2
Because people pay for them. They are supplanting the "Netbooks" as the device to own when a laptop is too much. If Apple is charging $500 for a device they produce for roughly $250, and people are buying them hand-over-fist, why would they ever want to stop?

Free market at work.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 12:37:59 PM , Rating: 2
What I am saying is that once more nice alternatives like the Kindle fire get out there and people compare them side by side and see how well they work, more people will buy the $200 option.

fast forward 1 year and picture a dozen or so $150 to $200 7 inchers and a dozen or so $200 to $250 10 inchers all running Android 4.0 smooth as glass with .28nm ARM chips. More and more people will buy them over the overpriced ones from Apple Asus, Samsung etc.

The same thing happened with PC's and Mac's back in the 90's. Eventually, cheaper alternatives with more options wins out over more expensive products with less options. Its inevitable that Apple, Samsung, Asus will all havae to lower their prices to compete.

By tayb on 3/14/2012 2:19:18 PM , Rating: 1
What I am saying is that once more nice alternatives like the Kindle fire get out there and people compare them side by side and see how well they work, more people will buy the $200 option.

I don't see that happening. Amazon eats the hardware costs in hopes that you'll buy a lot of Kindle books. None of the other players besides maybe Barnes N Noble have that option. Also, comparing the Kindle Fire and iPad side by side will result in every box but price and possibly affordability being checked for the iPad.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 2:27:50 PM , Rating: 2
YEs, it is a bit better, but we are talking 1 year from now and all using Android 4.0. Its smooth and stable, where older versions werent quite so much... And we arent talking a little cheaper. Its alot cheaper, likely $150 by then.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 2:35:20 PM , Rating: 2
It doesnt take a crystal ball. Android 4.0 just came out. In another year, there will be alot more cheap tablets on the market and they will all be on Android 4, if not 5. Its not that I can see the future, if you cant see that, your just dense.

By boobo on 3/14/2012 3:47:35 PM , Rating: 1
4 8 15 16 23 42

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 4:47:19 PM , Rating: 2
Well see.

By StanO360 on 3/14/2012 4:55:37 PM , Rating: 2
To you it feels that much better, in everyday use it feels maybe $150 better, but even that is not worth it to me.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 4:53:26 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Most people just want something quick and easy to browse the web, get email and a few apps. To that end, the Kindle is very close to the iPad, other than screen size of course, but that is personal preference, size vs. pirtability. The functionality is virtually equal. Once Android 4 gets on it, or a future version of it, its actually better than IOS.

By lightfoot on 3/14/2012 2:35:23 PM , Rating: 2
Huh. The only thing my Kindle Fire can't do that an iPad can is Skype (or Facetime for people who don't know what Skype is) and taking pictures. $10 dollars worth of hardware (which will no doubt be included in the next Fire) and there will be no reason that I can think of to get a heavier, less portable, more expensive iPad.

What exactly is the killer app for the iPad? I honestly don't know.

The iPad might be a better gaming platform due to its beefier hardware, but at $500 it is an extremely expensive game console.

What Google needs to do is give the hardware manufacturers a small kickback of each app sale in the Android Market. If they did that to help offset the hardware costs (like Amazon and Apple already do) Apple would be doomed.

By Mint on 3/15/2012 9:38:38 AM , Rating: 2
I really don't think Amazon is eating much in hardware costs. The hardware isn't any better than tablets you get from China for a lower price.

The $200 price is right for a tablet. Suckers for Apple products comprise 90% of the target audience willing to pay $500 for a tablet. For everyone else, paying that much is insanity, especially when you get 90% of the functionality for less than half the price. Samsung, RIM, etc aren't going to sell much at $500 no matter how good they are because they aren't Apple.

By Rukkian on 3/14/2012 12:23:52 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully, people will start to realize this, and stop paying the premiums, making everybody drop prices.

Competition is almost always good for consumers.

By JasonMick on 3/14/2012 12:52:07 PM , Rating: 3
I just dont see how Samsung and Apple and several others can continue to sell $500 to $700 tablets when $200 alternatives that are almost as good saturate the market. The lower end ones arent quite as good, but 95% of buyers only need internet, email and a few apps, and for that, the cheaper ones are just as good.

True, I would say the key driver here is price v. utility.

Tablet users I know tend to fall into something of a 70:30 split, where about a third use their devices obsessively, the other 2/3rds just leave it lying around most of the time, playing with it a few times a week.

$500 for a device you only are going to use a couple times a week, let alone $700 USD is just crazy for many peoples' budgets. $200, on the other hand, now you might have something.

The thing is that tablets are high on utility for some people, but for other people they're a diversion. I'm more in the "diversion" category, hence why I bought my TouchPad -- true it's mostly sat useless (largely for lack of almost any good apps), but at $88 at least I regret it less than if I bought an iPad and it was sitting useless. Same principle applies to the Kindle Fire.

By elmikethemike on 3/14/2012 4:35:50 PM , Rating: 3
I know Palm/HP tablet deserved the slow death it got. I know this because I experienced RIM tablet and you don't.

You realize RIM is dying a slow, painful death, too, right?

Part of the reason is because the Playbook is so bad and their phones are horribly out of touch with what people want in a smartphone. Good luck.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 4:50:19 PM , Rating: 2
"You realize RIM is dying a slow, painful death, too, right?"

No, he doesn't. His head is lodged so far up his a$$ on the matter that his shoulders are brown.

By elmikethemike on 3/14/2012 5:35:04 PM , Rating: 2
You're grasping at straws, dude. Give it up, you're not going to convince any tech-minded reader that RIM is where it's at.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 5:51:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not convincing anyone about RIM, people are free to make their own choices. They can either devour the manure the "reviewers" feed them or they can try to play with different products themselves like I do and then laugh at braindead "reviewers" who pretty often have no clue about tech toys, tablets, phones and such.

I made the second choice and now I can laugh at clowns like cheesy, Mick or retro, and at the "review" manure they eat for breakfast, har har har :)

You can tell me about your anti-Rim "reviews" all day, but the thing is they all are worth zero compared to my own personal experience. Got it?

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 6:14:14 PM , Rating: 1
but the thing is they all are worth zero compared to my own personal experience. Got it?
Right, because your experience trumps the other thousands of people who have reviewed it, and said it's shit...

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 6:33:24 PM , Rating: 3
QNX itself is not bad, it has alot of promise... But RIM just cant put all the pieces together anymroe. They are blowing it. They did nothing for 3 years, then bought QNX and it's another 1 1/2 years after that before we see phones using it. They just cant get it together, just like Palm. Sad really.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 7:33:52 PM , Rating: 2
They released Playbook OS 2.0 with real major updates recently, Dolphin HD just got ported to Playbook along with a few major third party games and they just submitted new LTE and HSPA+ Playbook to FCC. All this while you dorks keep whining and trolling. Hilarious eh :))) Hahahaa

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 9:00:49 PM , Rating: 2
What is hilarious is that you think what you put here is a good argument LOL.

OK< RIM parters up with/buy QNX and releases the Playbook in early 2011. It is greeted with UNANIMOUSLY bad reviews from tech sites, tablet/smartphone sites, pro reviewers, and customers alike. Sales suck and 6 months later RIM drops the price from $500 to $200 because they had 100's of thousands of excess unsold inventory.

1 year after release, they finally update it to where it should have been at release. As of now, they still wont have it on a phone until late 2012. 1 and 1/2 years after releasing it on a tablet, at least 2 years after starting QNX development and still no phones... And you think its good that they released and update and some games? LOL. keep trying. Well see you at RIM's next firesale.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 9:22:56 PM , Rating: 2
UNANIMOUSLY bad reviews from tech sites
Lies, Anand's review explicitly mentioned the best web browser in the ARM tablet industry, and BGR review I posted link for in this thread named it "the favorite tablet". But keep lying troll :) More laughs for me
1 and 1/2 years after releasing it on a tablet, at least 2 years after starting QNX development and still no phones
Oh yeah, whatever took Apple to achieve in 5 years RIM must do in just 1 year according to you. Stop being so dumb please.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 10:10:29 PM , Rating: 2
Again, how can you be so thick headed? The iphone was released 5 years ago and rim still doesn't have an answer. They didn't do a damn thing at all for 3 years, now 2 years after that and they still don't have a qnx phone. You have got to be the only person left on the planet that doesn't see that as a problem.

whatever though, I don't care. I can't make you see so we will just wait until the assets are being sold off and it belongs to another company. Then I will just say I told u so

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 10:25:18 PM , Rating: 2
Google ans MS and all the others also started to develop iPhone answer much later after Apple released it, and Google so far made MUCH less money off Android that RIM ever made from its ancient and outdated Blackberry OS. Still this doesn't preclude you from trolling only RIM as if all the other financial failures like Android (a lot of billions invested and zero gained in return so far) or WP7 (same sad picture) never existed.

You can turn blind eye to all the other pathetic iPhone competitors (and Google is even more pathetic than everyone else with its joke of an OS based on P.O.S. called Linux, what a shame) and single out just RIM but I can always see through your double standards, don't you ever forget about it ;)

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 10:46:01 PM , Rating: 2
Lol... idiot. Those competitors all have other core businesses AND modern OS's out on released products you daft fool.

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 1:45:08 AM , Rating: 2
RIM's QNX is way more modern than Android or iOS crap out there, and shrinking PC sales won't help MS "core" business to survive for much longer, do you undertadn these simple facts, dumbo?

By retrospooty on 3/15/2012 7:31:16 AM , Rating: 2

Really, you must be looking at a different version of QNX than the rest of us, because the one I saw was apt. but certainly not better. Yes, I am sure MS is really worried with their multi-billion dollar profits. They are one of the richest companies that ever existed and are at or near record profits every year recently. What are you even trying to prove?

By Helbore on 3/15/2012 7:59:20 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's core business is shrinking (even though that business remains a massive, mature market) and this is a problem for them. But RIM's core business has already shrunk massively (even though the market has exploded) and that ISN'T a problem?

You think Microsoft won't survive much longer but RIM will?

What planet are you living on?

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 12:40:47 PM , Rating: 2
To be honest it's only their stock price that shrunk massively, everything else is growing, stagnant or slowly declining. Except the stock price situation is the same for both RIM and MS, no matter what retro whiner is whining :)

Even the situation with CEO is strikingly similar - both MS and RIM CEOs got spanked many times by investors for very poor performance in mobile market. RIM CEOs got shifted from the first place to the second somewhere on the board while Ballmer got less of a spank.

If you don't buy reality distortion from whiners like retro - the sitaution with RIM is pretty far from clinical death, it's more like mild sickness for now.

By retrospooty on 3/15/2012 1:35:17 PM , Rating: 2
Your hopelessly deluded. MS's stock hasnt changed much in the past decade. It did spike at 35 on 2007 and now its at 24. Not great, its a 30something percent drop. RIM on the other has is at an all time low, and is 1/11 its previous value. that is over a 1000 percent drop. You are comparing the 2? LOL.

Okeedokee man. good luck. See you at RIM's sell-off later this year.

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 2:24:55 PM , Rating: 2
Your hopelessly deluded
Thanks for proving my point that besides stock price the situation with MS and RIM is essentially the same. Both companies are slowly losing their old markets and are looking for ways out. You just whine enormosuly about RIM and turn blind eye to MS since you think that the only metric that matters is the stock price. Good luck with that Macolyte attitude buddy. You know, the kind of people who fap on Apple's stock price? You are one of them, essentially.

By retrospooty on 3/15/2012 3:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
I am beginning to think that you arent as blind and dim as you let on. You are either delusional, or are just trying to be obtuse on purpose to get a rise out of me. Either way, your of no concern.

Like I said, when RIM gets sold off later this year, I will be there to say I told you so. Not much else to debate, just want and see.

By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2012 4:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I like how he's seriously pushing for people to purchase a tablet that is very likely to follow the footsteps of the TouchPad and leave it's owners with no support, no app's, nothing when it's cancelled.

By retrospooty on 3/15/2012 6:14:28 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, all those that dont buy what I buy and like what I like are idiots, liars and trolls. I am sure the guys is an adult age wise, but he really acts alot like my 7 year old daughter on a bad day.

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 7:15:22 PM , Rating: 1
Say, is your lovely Android less of a molasses slow piece of cheapo manure it used to be on loser's tablets around the Playbook 1.0 release date? Judging by your excitement about ICS it must be kinda catching up to QNX, WP7 and iOS smoothness eh? ;) Glad Android shit is becoming less horrible every year. We'll see what Google has with Android 5 when RIM releases LTE/HSPA+ Playbooks. I won't be surprised if Android UI keeps being same shitty joke compared to updated Playbook UI (or WP8 or new iOS) but I gonna give you the benefit of a doubt :P

By retrospooty on 3/16/2012 11:31:22 AM , Rating: 2
post rambling thoughts incoherently typing what?

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 8:01:44 PM , Rating: 2
This is a positive refresh that current owners will want to apply as soon as is readily possible, but it won't bring many new users to the fold . The Messages app fills a void and the Android app support is a nice plus, but the former is simply something that should have been there at the beginning and the latter offers far too limited selection now to be a proper selling point. Both feel like too little and both have arrived far too late. Sadly, the best new feature here is not on the tablet at all -- it's the BlackBerry Remote app for smartphones .
Says it all im these few

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 8:28:01 PM , Rating: 1
Would you expect me to start whining and trolling about RIM like you or Mick do?
You obviously don't pay attention to what you read or you have a reading comprehension problem, or you only see what you want to see, because I don't really comment much on RIM, I don't give 2 shits about them.

best web browser
Wow...a BROWSER, the rest of the tablet STILL fails...

I think it's you who needs to think because it's quite clear you don't do much of it.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 8:39:38 PM , Rating: 2
Browser is the most important feature of a tablet, if it's the best who cares that the tablet doesn't have some minor features/fart apps the other applets have? Especially given that Playbook has some other minor features that other tablets don't have, like MKV payback for instance.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 9:02:33 PM , Rating: 2
QNX isnt even bad. The playbook isnt even bad, and that was not 2.0 that I tested out. The problem is and for the past 5 year has been RIM's execution. They just cant compete anymore you doofus.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 9:30:22 PM , Rating: 2
MS has even worse execution in this case and if RIM can't compete then MS is doomed even more 'cause they are a few years later in the tablet market even _AFTER_ RIM has entered it.

Whatever RIM produces now is whatever MS does in next year, maybe. But the next year RIM will move even further forward.

See how easy it is to use troll's logic against the troll himself? ;)

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 10:02:15 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously dude how can you be so thick headed? I don't know if you've heard of this product but microsoft has something called Windows that quite a lot of people use. It is on pretty much 95 percent of the computers built in the past 20 years. There is an enterprise server piece that goes along with it that pretty much the whole world runs off including the plants that make iphones ,ipad ,Macs, blackberries , samsung's, and every other products you enjoy . It is Microsofts core business. Phone os is just an afterthought. Phones are the rims core business and they are failing at it

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 10:15:45 PM , Rating: 1
Given that computing is shifting from old desktops into newer tablets and phones - RIM's prospects look better than MS's since RIM already does much better in phones and tablets than MS ever did or will do in the distant future.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 10:34:08 PM , Rating: 1
I don't know if you've heard of this product but microsoft has something called Windows that quite a lot of people use
Have you ever heard about BES that quite a lot of big multinational multibillion dollar businesses use too? There's the whole enterprise suite of hardware and software that goes with it that pretty much every serious big company uses these days to run the wireless communication solution for their company. And MS is losing the Windows customers right now just like RIM is losing some enterprises too. Whoever abandons the old tech and converts over to Apple - all of them abandon _both_ old MS tech and old RIM tech. So no difference here.

But keep your lovely double standards close to your chest, don't lose them man! So funny to read them in your posts :)

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 10:40:29 PM , Rating: 2
Okeedokee then.

By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2012 1:07:01 AM , Rating: 2
The Kindle Fire is essential a rebranded Playbook. So how can it be so much clearly "better" when it's not the same hardware, I don't know.

From your own link:

"The PlayBook was clearly designed at the outset to only be used with a crutch, and that crutch is a smartphone. Using the tablet just felt a bit uncomfortable without a reassuringly blinking blue light from a nearby BlackBerry. With the 2.0 release the PlayBook is rather more independent, less codependant, but still far from a strong figure when stacked up against the competition. This is a positive refresh that current owners will want to apply as soon as is readily possible, but it won't bring many new users to the fold. "

Yeaaaahh, looks like it's really beating the Kindle Fire into submission...

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 3:21:46 AM , Rating: 2
how can it be so much clearly "better"
Drastically better software on Playbook is the secret.

By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2012 2:49:25 PM , Rating: 2
Well it must be the best kept secret. Because nobody knows it but you.

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 2:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
Lies. Besides me there's Anand himself and some other reviewers like the BGR at

By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2012 4:48:50 PM , Rating: 2
Uhhh on Anandtech's review of the Playbook, he pretty much says unless you already have a Blackberry you should steer clear of the Playbook. So whatever.

Your link isn't a review, it's an editorial about some guys favorite tablet. He doesn't qualify his opinion, it's just that, his opinion. It's not more right or wrong than yours.

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 5:34:32 PM , Rating: 2
Anand also says that Playbook has the best web browser among all the ARM tablets which makes it pretty much the default choice for everyone who considers web browsing important on a tablet, and this is the majority of tablet users in general.

By Reclaimer77 on 3/16/2012 12:02:15 PM , Rating: 2
First it was the "OS", now it's the "browser", I guess next it will be something else that makes it "the best". Maybe the color scheme lol

By Pirks on 3/16/2012 3:48:24 PM , Rating: 2
OS, browser, UI, design, screen quality, build quality, size, weight. These are areas where Playbook pwns iPad easily.

The areas it loses to iPad is amount of games, fart apps and hype. Yeah, and screen resolution too. Which is insignificant given Playbook's screen size.

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/17/2012 7:21:02 PM , Rating: 2
They are "pwning" so hard, everyone is buying them right? LOL....what a tool...

By Pirks on 3/19/2012 12:41:31 PM , Rating: 2
Keep jerking off the huge sales of the best company in the world - Apple. Idiot.

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 6:12:21 PM , Rating: 2
Yet most of the reviews don't favor it...I guess they are all retarded clowns too. I swear, you have some serious mental issues you need to deal with.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 7:46:15 PM , Rating: 2
Munch on this:

Another fix for your damaged brain:

And this:

"RIM's real problem today, and the PlayBook's problem too, is perception . Today, the average consumer might feel hesitant to embrace a RIM product because of that negative market perception, whether or not that perception is the reality "

Judging by what this guy said in a review of Playbook 2.0 you're (just like all the other consumer sheep) too dumb to distinguish perception from reality, and many other DT clowns like yourself have the same syndrome. Fix this problem, dude, and you will start looking much more serious and credible than you are now.

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 7:56:34 PM , Rating: 2
Fix this problem, dude, and you will start looking much more serious and credible than you are now.
Much more credible then you will ever be. You go from defending Apple to no end, to defending RIM to no end. You are a joke dude. The only one who doesn't see it is you.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 8:04:04 PM , Rating: 1
Defending whoever from clueless trolls is a good thing in general, doesn't matter if that's MS or Apple or RIM. The reason why you don't agree with this is because you are a clueless troll yourself, and because of this defending anoyone against the trolls is a joke from your point of view. Your reaction is predictable.

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 8:30:32 PM , Rating: 2
The reason why you don't agree with this is because you are a clueless troll yourself
This coming from you, hilarious!

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 8:47:57 PM , Rating: 1
Truth hurts, I know. When you troll here about special olympics etc and I call out your trolling, of course you don't like that. Gotta live with that dud :P

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 8:17:08 AM , Rating: 1
Who's truth? The voices in your sick, twisted mind? I don't like it? I don't give 2 shits about you or your moron comments. I am not hurt in the least. Call out my trolling? LOL, you just posting = trolling.

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 11:52:26 AM , Rating: 2
Dancing solo again? Need your parftner Sojar to make it more fun.

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 1:00:43 PM , Rating: 2
Go figure, another moronic post...

By Pirks on 3/15/2012 1:37:51 PM , Rating: 2
And because you say so it must be true? No, sorry...

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 5:39:47 PM , Rating: 2
Playbook is so bad
Playbook is "so bad" only in minds of retarded clowns here like cheesy or retro. Of course it is "so bad" when you read a "review" of some braindead lamer who doesn't even know what gmail is. In a real world however... it's a totally different story.
what people want in a smartphone
Not every one is as insane about fart apps as yourself. Other people have other needs you know.

By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 4:45:23 PM , Rating: 2
I would win :P
The Special Olympics? I believe it..

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 4:55:43 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, RIM is so far out of the picture that it isn't even discussed in this topic, other than you bringing it up out of no-where. It's done, move on.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 5:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
Dead and discontinued TouchPad is even farther from the picture than RIM, still Mick brings it up our of nowhere. So now you either have to promote double standards (dead TouchPad is ok, alive Playbook is not ok) or plug your trolling hole. Make your choice ;)

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 6:14:50 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, go to your room now, grown ups are talking, and you are just a child.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 7:26:25 PM , Rating: 2
grown ups are talking
Talking double standards? Maybe you should try to avoid them? Don't you think double standards are not so good eh?

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 8:56:15 PM , Rating: 2
No, I think you act like a child. Jason made a comment on topic about price vs. high end. YOU jumped in to make your usual "RIM is awesome" comment and insulted him and anyone that bought a touchpad for $100, like they are all idiots. Hey a touchpad for $100 is great. An iPad or Galaxy tab or transformer for $500? meh, not to me. Anyhow, if you cant see my point here about you being a child and an irritating one at that it wont surprise me... because you are a child.

By Pirks on 3/14/2012 9:01:40 PM , Rating: 2
My post was about people who bought TouchPad for its full MSRP, if Mick got it for $88 this is just wasted money but nothing to worry about, I agree

By michael2k on 3/14/2012 1:21:48 PM , Rating: 2
Up until the Fire, the $200 alternatives weren't nearly as good, ergo the reality that Fire sales are a significant fraction of iPad sales

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 2:33:15 PM , Rating: 2
In a year, you will have alot more 7 and 10 inch tablets on the market, and all will be Running Android 4, which itself is better than IOS. So alot of the iPad's benefits vs current Android tablets fade when Android 4 is added to the mix. They cant keep the $500 price point. Neither can Asus or Samsung for that matter.

By tayb on 3/14/2012 3:04:25 PM , Rating: 2
Being better than iOS is a matter of opinion. Android 4 is better than Android 3 but it still provides a vastly different experience than iOS. We also don't have any idea what iOS6 will look or feel like. I would hold off on the iPad doomsday scenarios and I seriously doubt the price will go down. $500 seems to be the sweet spot for tablets.

By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 3:47:19 PM , Rating: 2
Its not doomsday, the iPad is a great tablet. Its just going to force a price-drop is all... In the same way we dont still spend $4000 for a basic PC, tech prices always fall, so will this.

By tayb on 3/14/2012 2:10:22 PM , Rating: 2
A bigger question is how long companies can sell $200 tablets at a loss or no margin. If you aren't buying books from the Kindle store Amazon is taking a huge loss selling you that Kindle Fire.

Amazon is trying the console business model on tablets but I don't think it will work. Consoles use the same hardware for 4-7 years and operate at a loss for years until software sales catch up and the cost of hardware goes down. Amazon can't afford to NOT upgrade the innards of the Kindle as time goes on so they will be relying solely on software sales to recover the hardware losses. That doesn't seem like an amazing long term proposition.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Apple drop the iPad 2 to $250 a year from now when the iPad 4 debuts. You can already score a certified refurb iPad 2 from Apple for $350.

By lightfoot on 3/14/2012 3:27:39 PM , Rating: 2
I also wouldn't be surprised to see Apple drop the iPad 2 to $250 a year from now when the iPad 4 debuts. You can already score a certified refurb iPad 2 from Apple for $350

I would be very surprised. Apple has already ceased production of the iPad 2.

You may be able to snag one on the second hand market for that little, but it won't be Apple selling it to you, and it won't be new.

By tayb on 3/14/2012 3:51:46 PM , Rating: 2
I would be very surprised. Apple has already ceased production of the iPad 2.

No they haven't. They are selling it for $399 brand new just like they continue to sell the iPhone 4.

By lightfoot on 3/14/2012 4:10:54 PM , Rating: 2
I assumed they still have stock, but they weren't still manufacturing it.

Although with Apple it is very hard to tell what they are and are not really manufacturing, so I could be wrong.

Wikipedia lists the iPad 2 as discontinued - for whatever that's worth.

By TakinYourPoints on 3/15/2012 1:08:47 AM , Rating: 2
They're still being produced and sold as new products in only the 16GB wifi and 3G versions (no LTE).

The major difference with the new iPad is the display and the higher capacity options. Application performance should be roughly the same given that the main upgrade has been to the GPU and not the CPU. That said, many components of iOS applications (Core Image, Core Video, etc) are also GPU driven, so we won't know for sure what the true impact of performance with the A5X is until Anand gets his hands on it.

By TakinYourPoints on 3/15/2012 1:15:34 AM , Rating: 2
Amazon has worked with loss leaders for a long time. They are considered a tech company and are even valued like one on Wall Street, but they are really much closer to a traditional B&M retailer like Walmart in terms of how they do business.

There's this weird discrepancy with the stock, their profit margins are similar to other retailers but the stock has this ridiculous 100+ price to earnings valuation because investors keep thinking it is this tech that will eventually pay off. Nothing in their business model says otherwise, they're going to keep grabbing market share by undercutting and selling loss leaders.

In any case, I don't think Amazon expects to be very profitable with the Fire, they lose money on the hardware and there is no money selling movies or music (Apple makes peanuts on iTunes). It is a gateway to the Amazon ecosysteem and a way to keep people hooked in, not a way to make money in and of itself. This is probably why they are the only company that could get away with something as cheap as the Fire.

By Shadowmaster625 on 3/14/2012 2:46:44 PM , Rating: 2
Here is your answer: people are frickin stupid braindead brainwashed mindfunked consumer zombies who need to hand billions of dollars to apple to fulfill some sadistic occult ritual which they believe will spill the spiritual void in their lives but will infact only make it larger. The void grows as their debt grows.

Ever see the movie "Dark Crystal"? That right there is what apple is doing to its customers.

By elmikethemike on 3/14/2012 4:23:14 PM , Rating: 3
Your hyperbole is funny.

The thing you just don't get, and what most of DailyTech doesn't get, is that Apple simply makes a good product. Good products sell. It is really as simple as that.

But keep hiding behind your hyperbole. You're only stroking you're own ignorance.

By RamarC on 3/14/2012 8:27:09 PM , Rating: 2
the ipad2 price drop will push tablet pricing down since even the best current android tablet still can't claim to be *far better* than the ipad2 due to the huge app library disadvantage. until the out-the-box android tablet experience can match apple, android tablets have to undercut them on price.

Keep giving them away
By vision33r on 3/14/2012 1:16:28 PM , Rating: 1
Amazon is basically giving their hardware away for free and I'm sure at some point Wall Street won't like it.

That's why Apple is on their way to $700bn by next year and Amazon's profit margins will continue to sink.

I'm betting 1/2 the people buying Kindle are rooting and reading free leeched ebooks and apps. They will never spend a penny on Amazon stuff.

RE: Keep giving them away
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/14/2012 2:01:25 PM , Rating: 2
That's why Apple is on their way to $700bn by next year and Amazon's profit margins will continue to sink.
700 BILLION huh? What kind of dream world are you living in?

RE: Keep giving them away
By kingmotley on 3/14/2012 2:27:12 PM , Rating: 2
I would say he's got a pretty good foot in reality. Apple already has a market cap of $543 billion. $700 by next year is a pretty good bet.

RE: Keep giving them away
By retrospooty on 3/14/2012 4:59:14 PM , Rating: 2
Market cap and profit are vastly different matters. Apple is highly profitable, but well under 100 billion yearly.

RE: Keep giving them away
By Mint on 3/15/2012 10:00:42 AM , Rating: 2
If Apple has a market cap of $543B now, then the average expectation is no more than $600B even 2 years from now.

I think Apple is pretty close to plateauing. People won't keep forking over money for marginal benefits forever. Sony was the last CE company that tried to cling onto high margins provided by its image, and it couldn't compete with Samsung.

Apple doesn't have a big manufacturing edge like Intel, so its profit margins are very vulnerable.

Are these really competing?
By tayb on 3/14/2012 1:59:29 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe it is just me but I don't consider the iPad and Kindle Fire to be competing. If I was in the market for a tablet I would not consider the Kindle Fire. Alternatively, if I was in the market for a reader I would not consider the iPad. If I wanted the best of both I still don't think I would consider the Kindle Fire unless I was cash strapped.

I just don't look at these two devices as being in the same class. It's like comparing a regular notebook to a netbook.

RE: Are these really competing?
By vapore0n on 3/14/2012 2:34:07 PM , Rating: 2
Truth is they dont.

Its like saying a compact car took market share (or a sale) from a larger family sedan. Both are cars, but both serve different people.

RE: Are these really competing?
By elmikethemike on 3/14/12, Rating: 0
RE: Are these really competing?
By moriz on 3/14/2012 6:01:25 PM , Rating: 2
i have ICS running on my kindle fire. some features are broken, but for the most part it's already pretty usable. it's only a matter of time before the fire gets a fully functional ICS port.

as for android on tablet: in my opinion, ICS has better usability than iOS 5. i've used both.

Good old mick
By BSMonitor on 3/15/2012 1:59:50 PM , Rating: 2
Except that Kindle Fire isn't a direct competitor to the actual tablet market. Might as well throw all smartphones into the mix as well. 3.5" and 4" tablets!

Nothing like comparing Apples and Grapefruit.

But wait, Mick loves to sprout numbers of generic garbage Android devices sold to pad his iPhone vs Android arguments.

So n/m. Withdraw my beef.

RE: Good old mick
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/15/2012 2:24:47 PM , Rating: 2
Awww, did Android touch in the wrong spot as a kid?

Amazon moving forward
By wordsworm on 3/14/2012 1:22:47 PM , Rating: 2
Amazon started buying colour e-ink displays in bulk last month. I can't wait to see what they're going to make with it. A colour Kindle would be really great.

By bull2760 on 3/16/2012 9:41:07 AM , Rating: 2
One thing is clear anyone who buys a kindle was not looking at an iPad or for that matter a 10.1 in android tablet like the asus transformer. So kindle is not cutting into any of apple's sales. The 2 devices are completely different I own an iPad and a co-worker owns the kindle, the kindle fire is not in the same league. If anything they are taking sales away from Samsung galaxy 8" tablet, that would explain Samsung complaining about port sales of android based tablets.

By hexxthalion on 3/14/2012 1:58:59 PM , Rating: 1
subject says it all

How is this explained?
By Tony Swash on 3/14/12, Rating: -1
RE: How is this explained?
By kingmotley on 3/14/2012 2:44:30 PM , Rating: 4
Because stories like this talk about marketshare as a proportion of this weeks/months sales rather than how many are actually in the marketplace. It's a mistake that even respected analysts make often. You see fire is selling x% of the tablets and ipad is selling y% this month, but traffic and app revenue is a function of the percentage of devices actually in use. Of course, the number of devices in use is better determined by total sales of each device (ever) than this months snapshot. Using this months snapshot will always paint the newcomer in a better light than is the true indicator because of pent up demand for something other just now being satisfied and trying to compare that to continue demand for an already established product line is silly.

Total sales:
316 million iOS devices.
135 million android devices.
2 million Amazon kindles.

Now factor that those iOS devices are more likely to opt for the 3G connected versions, or to be used for browsing the web vs just being used as a dumb phone and the numbers start to make perfect sense.

RE: How is this explained?
By Tony Swash on 3/14/12, Rating: -1
RE: How is this explained?
By jimbojimbo on 3/14/2012 3:53:01 PM , Rating: 2
It's because many people with Androids use an alternative browser instead of the stock. I have a tablet and phone but use Dolphin on both.

RE: How is this explained?
By Reclaimer77 on 3/14/2012 4:09:11 PM , Rating: 2
Dolphin HD browser ftw!

I'm sure Apple people just use whatever Jobs/Cook tell them to.

RE: How is this explained?
By sprockkets on 3/14/2012 4:13:31 PM , Rating: 2
Or the simple fact that both mobile safari and android's browser will show up as webkit and thus mean somehow apple???

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