Print 32 comment(s) - last by angryplayer.. on Dec 10 at 4:07 PM

Also juicy is the revelation that IBM and Nokia bowed to Apple's licensing demands in 2010

An erroneous upload [source] exposed some redacted details from court filings denying Apple, Inc.'s (AAPL) request for a preliminary injunction (PI) banning Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd.'s (KS:005930) U.S. smartphone and tablet sales.

Most notably Judge Lucy H. Koh of the Northern District Californian federal court reveals that Apple itself admitted that its research shows that most of Samsung's customers are either new smartphone users who weren't interested in iPhones or, most commonly, are current Android users who are switching from another device maker.

The admission is a significant one for Apple, because even if it can establish that infringement has occurred, it has essentially admitted that it has seen no really harm from it, at least not in direct sales loss.  That could reduce licensing/settlement costs for Samsung, if it's found to be in infringement of Apple's IP.

Also noted by The Verge, who obtained a copy of the plain-text of the redacted document portions, the ruling notes that Samsung rejected Apple's offer in late 2010 to license U.S. Patent No. 7,469,381, a 2008 patent on a bounce animation effect that occurs when you hit the edge of a document when pinch zooming or scrolling.

The plain text reveals that Nokia Oyj. (HEL:NOK1V) recently agreed to license the patent (likely for its Symbian OS), as did International Business Machines, Inc. (IBM).  Some experts have questioned the validity of patenting such a seemingly obvious animation.  However, both the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and EU Patent Office bought Apple's argument and granted it ownership of the GUI effect.

Android Gingerbread Gallery App
The bounce animation is seen here in Android Gallery App.

Samsung does come out on the short end of one redacted portion.  Samsung apparently tried to argue against a preliminary injunction partially on a basis that Apple -- the second biggest smartphone maker in U.S. sales -- could not fulfill demand if Samsung -- the third biggest smartphone maker in U.S. sales -- was yanked off the market.  While Judge Koh decided against a PI for other reasons, she called the supply and demand argument "dubious", particularly when Apple submitted documents showing it could keep up with the additional demand, if it occurred.

Otherwise the court document was basically the same as previously known information -- critical of Apple's design claims, but respectful that possible infringement of the lone technology claim could have occurred.

Apple and Samsung will meet in court on July 30, 2012 to conclude their U.S. battle.  In the meantime Apple will have to compete with Samsung on the free market, a place where Samsung is currently out-growing Apple.

Sources: Reuters, The Verge

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Wouldn't it be nice...
By letmepicyou on 12/6/2011 9:56:45 AM , Rating: 5
Wouldn't it be nice if corporate America would get BACK to the ideals of producing better products at a cheaper cost as the way to succeed in the marketplace? You'd have to be off your rocker to support Apple's "sue till you're blue" corporate mantra. I don't give a rat's rear end if you like or even LOVE Apple products. The simple matter is as a consumer, your dollars should NEVER be spent supporting a corporation that engages in business practices such as these.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By amanojaku on 12/6/2011 10:08:53 AM , Rating: 5
The average consumer, either pro or anti-Apple, is largely ignorant of these issues, and wouldn't care, anyway. I think people are more addicted to their electronics than the average drug user or alcoholic is to their substances. I mean, look at one of today's headlines:

Survey: Nearly three percent of Australians check Facebook during sex

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By retrospooty on 12/6/2011 10:18:26 AM , Rating: 5
I think they are just holding it wrong.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By Adonlude on 12/7/2011 12:13:31 PM , Rating: 2
Isaac Newton said "If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants". Our patent system keeps us from seeing a little further at times.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By retrospooty on 12/7/2011 4:25:28 PM , Rating: 2
Standing on the shoulders of giants doesnt help when their head is up their asses. Now its just higher up there ;)

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By danobrega on 12/6/2011 10:56:13 AM , Rating: 2
They dont care because they don't know how much it is costing them. If you show them the number, they will start caring.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By Omega215D on 12/6/2011 1:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
Many people see Apple as the underdog trying to bring them the best product that can be made and companies like MS are evil and want nothing to do with cheap chinese or korean brands. People are that stupid.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By Strunf on 12/7/2011 7:32:26 AM , Rating: 2
The survey reminds me of this college humor sketch!

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By invidious on 12/6/2011 10:13:50 AM , Rating: 3
As much as I don't agree with Apple's dubious patents and lawsuits based on said dubious patents, if someone has a patent and you ignore it, you are going to get sued. Samsung should have known what they were getting into.

Regardless of whether the rules are fair or not, if everyone played by the rules there would be none of these lawsuits.

I don't think its fair to blame the patent holder as long as they allow their patents to be licenced at a reasonable fee. If you don't like the patent blame the patent office. If you dont like the lawsuits blame the violator.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By MozeeToby on 12/6/2011 10:22:05 AM , Rating: 5
It would be nearly impossible for anyone to make a smartphone without violating the patents of at least 3 or 4 companies. And I mean no one; not Samsung, not Motorola, not Nokia, and not Apple. There are too many patents for too many things that should be considered trivial held by too many different companies. You could spend a decade just doing research on which patents to avoid, and in the meantime another five thousand trivial and obvious patents would have made it through the system.

The patent system in the US and EU is broken. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with patents, but there is certainly something wrong with how they are granted today with no concern for obviousness or prior art.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By AssBall on 12/6/2011 11:40:52 AM , Rating: 2
Its like.. how many different unique ways can you combine a touchscreen, battery, antenna, and microphone/speaker?

Sorry is that also made with plastic and metal and glass? Dude we patented that already...

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By TakinYourPoints on 12/6/2011 4:27:40 PM , Rating: 2
This is why cross-licensing exists between nearly all of these companies. Everyone accounts for needing to license technologies from other giant companies, either by budgeting for it or (unless you're Google pre-September) having their own patent portfolio from which to protect themselves or trade licenses with.

Blocking is rarer and something I have more of an issue with. That also said, I'd prefer it if instead of copying look and feel like Samsung (king of plagiarists; before Apple they were in court with RIM for the same reasons), companies instead did their own thing like Microsoft is with the excellent WP7.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By angryplayer on 12/10/2011 4:07:09 PM , Rating: 2
Simply put, before Apple, there was a gentleman's agreement to keep the accounting simple. They COULD spend YEARS sorting out the patents, or just agree to not sue each other.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/6/2011 2:42:52 PM , Rating: 1
Regardless of whether the rules are fair or not, if everyone played by the rules there would be none of these lawsuits.

We would also have a monopoly situation. So Samsung absolutely did the right thing imo.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By drycrust3 on 12/6/2011 7:20:08 PM , Rating: 2
As much as I don't agree with Apple's dubious patents and lawsuits based on said dubious patents

My observation of patent 7469381 is that it really is Apple's claim to the idea of using a touchscreen in conjunction with menus and icons and graphics images; pretty much in line with what operating systems of that time were doing anyway, except Apple was patenting the idea of using a touch screen as the activator and not a mouse pointer.
Historically, touch screens were invented before the graphics user interface, so it is arguable that using a touch screen as the activator for the GUI / Windows environment is entirely logical.
What I find frustrating is Apple's claim this patent cover's things that seem to be "incredibly well hidden" within the patent. It would be so much easier if they pointed out which part of this patent cover's "menu animation" because that exact wording doesn't ever appear within the patent. Why would you hide something that you want to protect? I just can't help thinking that no one at Apple had ever thought of menu animation until after they had applied for the patent (and the example in the picture isn't even a menu, its a picture or document!).

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By One43637 on 12/6/2011 1:09:20 PM , Rating: 2
+1 to push you over to 6 if I could.

The majority of consumers don't care what it takes to get what they want. Look at all the headlines this year about the suicides at Apple's major OEM, Foxconn. It was big news, yet that did not dampen the demand for the iPhone.

Either out of sight, out of mind or they just don't care.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By Omega215D on 12/6/2011 1:16:45 PM , Rating: 3
Not really big news because I didn't see the major outlets (except from CNN) or even Jim Cramer bring this up and few people read LEGITIMATE tech sites.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By nocturne_81 on 12/6/2011 1:34:48 PM , Rating: 4
Wait... this is a legitimate tech site..?

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By gorehound on 12/6/2011 3:19:30 PM , Rating: 2
And this is why I own a "dumb phone" and always will I guess.Not only do I refuse to support an Industry who only licenses you movies,books, and music as you do not really own anything you get on your smart phones but you just feed the Corporate Greed even more.
My phone has data/text disabled and was free and if you had to buy one it cost 39.99 or 49.99 I forget.
I also refuse to support Apple IPADS or IPHONES or Computers.I will never buy one no matter how much cash I have.

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By MechanicalTechie on 12/6/2011 9:28:28 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed... i own a 'dumb phone' too and have no real interest to upgrade... but when the day does come.. i too will never buy Apple for the utter crap they pull. As an IT professional i have a particular distaste for what they are doing!!

RE: Wouldn't it be nice...
By spaced_ on 12/7/2011 12:10:31 AM , Rating: 2
I own a 'smart' phone. But I miss my 'dumb' phone some times. Why? I only had to charge it once every 2 weeks. This one I have to charge almost every day.

They're a natural progression/update to the tech and do provide a bunch of useful features, but the battery life is a massive downgrade...

What really bugs me....
By retrospooty on 12/6/2011 10:05:10 AM , Rating: 3
Apple is suing for these vague concepts. Its not like they invented the smartphone. All they were is first to market with a multitouch UI... yes it was great, yes it made smartphones alot funner to use. That was a great thing, now let the competition begin.

If you want to say "Apple is being copied", then take it back to the root. Apple "copied" the whole mobile phone idea, as well as putting and OS and apps on a phone from Palm/Handspring. All companies do this. The entire industry builds off ideas of others. It always has, as all industries always have. Its as if to say, Toyota, GM, BMW and Honda shouldnt be allowed to make cars because they all copy Ford. Specifically Appl's suits are as if Ford sued GM because they have cupholders and mudflaps on their pick up trucks. Petty and irrelevant.

RE: What really bugs me....
By Rukkian on 12/6/2011 11:47:50 AM , Rating: 2
I am not a fruit fan, (even though several of my friends and family are) but I do see the benefits of what they have done - mainly packaging what others have created into a marketable package and then is when their magic happens! They are incredible at marketing and brand recognition. What I cannot beleive is that this incessant pursuit of sue first, sue often has not yet come back to tarnish their name. Until recently, I could even recommend their products to certain people that just don't want to be bothered with anything semi-advanced on a device, however with the way they are currently running their business, I cannot do that anymore.

I understand that patents are what they are, but why keep doing lawsuit after lawsuit instead of just innovating and moving past what you consider copycats?

RE: What really bugs me....
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/6/2011 12:50:41 PM , Rating: 2
They can't get past the perception that Android is a "clone", which is utterly and absolutely ridiculous that ANYONE thinks this is a clone . And perception is all it is, it's not a clone by any stretch of the imagination.

RE: What really bugs me....
By Omega215D on 12/6/2011 1:19:01 PM , Rating: 2
Apple and Apple biased tech sites keep claiming it's a clone and people would rather believe that because Apple is still the "underdog" fighting against MS and now Google. It's effin unbelievable.

RE: What really bugs me....
By nocturne_81 on 12/6/2011 1:50:34 PM , Rating: 2
That always makes me chuckle.. Reminds me back when I was a teen, and the 'goth' thing was going on (or the punk movement for you old farts). The goths wanted to do anything to 'not conform to your capitalist society', including conforming themselves by all dressing the same, wearing the dark makeup, buying all their ridiculous spiked jewelry from Hot Topic..

These new hipsters are entirely the same (though the chicks aren't as hot, hehe).. You can spot an Apple user walking down the street just as easily, even when they're not trying to think of excuses to pull out their phone.

RE: What really bugs me....
By retrospooty on 12/6/2011 12:59:06 PM , Rating: 2
"I do see the benefits of what they have done - mainly packaging what others have created into a marketable package"

Absolutely, and its a great phone. Its just that its more of a copy of Palm/Handspring than any Samsung device is a copy of Apple.

RE: What really bugs me....
By spaced_ on 12/7/2011 12:18:44 AM , Rating: 2
100% agree.

I was even tempted to look to purchase some form of Apple device myself because of the perceived quality in packaging they have other others. Though still hard to justify the cost...

Now I'll never be buying anything Apple on principle until they stop abusing the legal system. And I'll be suggesting to friends and family to do the same. They are the new Microsoft...

By Chudilo on 12/6/2011 4:05:27 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously? They patented the rubber bounce at the end of a list?
Who has a patent on clicking a button on a screen that results in a different image being shown that looks like the button was pressed.
Would that be Xerox? Would you expect them to sue Apple and MS and just about everyone else that made a GUI since then ?

What about the other patent on basically Object Oriented Programming for crying out loud. This is all ludicrous and should be thrown out of court. The patent invalidated and Apple fined for stifling progress , wasting everyone's time and federal resources.

By retrospooty on 12/6/2011 5:10:08 PM , Rating: 2
I know. Its a bit like Ford suing GM because thier door handles look too much alike.

Bogus patent..
By nocturne_81 on 12/6/2011 1:32:47 PM , Rating: 2
I honestly can't understand how this patent is being enforced.. I myself implemented the same type of animation more than a decade ago in a flash photo gallery I made for myself, an idea which I admittedly ripped off from many other comparable flash sites.

By shin0bi272 on 12/6/2011 4:51:16 PM , Rating: 2
apple admits their consumers are sheep ... proof from the lawyers mouth people.

"Let's face it, we're not changing the world. We're building a product that helps people buy more crap - and watch porn." -- Seagate CEO Bill Watkins

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