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Image courtesy Waseda University
Thee Japanese scientists develop thin battery that can survive over 1,000 recharge cycles

Three scientists at Waseda University have developed a new polymer-based rechargeable battery that could find its way into a number of devices in the future. Hiroyuki Nishide, Hiroaki Konishi and Takeo Suga designed the battery to be extremely thin (200 nanometers thick) and incorporate a high charge/discharge capacity, yet it is still durable enough to survive the rigors of recharging.

"This is just one of many advantages the 'organic radical' battery has over other organic based materials which are limited by the amount of doping," said Dr. Nishide. "The power rate performance is strikingly high - it only takes one minute to fully charge the battery. And it has a long cycle life, often exceeding 1,000 cycles."

The battery is composed of a redox-active organic polymer film which is then combined with nitroxide radical groups. And unlike some other radical polymer battery solutions that have been developed in the past, this new battery does not have problems with self-discharging.

The technology used in the polymer-based battery still is still in the prototype stage, but Dr. Nishide believes that it could find a home in electronic devices within the next three years.

"In the future, these batteries may be used in applications that require high-power capability rather than high-energy density, such as a battery in electronic devices and motor drive assistance in electric vehicles," said Nishide.

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Toshiba
By feelingshorter on 3/24/2007 3:26:49 PM , Rating: 5
Toshiba has been, for a long time now, touting such a battery. They claim that in 1000 charges, it still keeps an amazing 99.9%+ charge! Compared to Lithium, NiCad and Nimh, that is amazing. That battery has been in development for years now. There has been many news stories like this in the past, touting the same sort of technology with 1 minute charge time. Something like this is just great. Hell if I had money, I would of invested in Toshiba stock right when the first news leaked of this type of battery. With the huge push for hybrid cars and better fuel economy, I believe this is the last step.

This may even bring back the electric car. Imagine gas stations with "quick charge" areas for electric cars. Its only a minute wait, so it gives electric cars the option of traveling far.




RE: Toshiba
By Some1ne on 3/24/2007 6:56:19 PM , Rating: 3
You're missing the implications of this part:

quote:
"In the future, these batteries may be used in applications that require high-power capability rather than high-energy density, such as a battery in electronic devices and motor drive assistance in electric vehicles," said Nishide.


...so it only takes a minute to recharge your fully-electric car, but you have to recharge it every 500 feet because the batteries don't actually trap enough energy to do any good.

To look at it another way, a car with an internal combustion engine gets roughly 15 kWh out of a gallon of gas, and can travel a distance of about 20 miles on that same amount of gas. Now to put this much energy into an electric car's rechargable battery in the span of a minute, it would need to draw about 900 kW of power for that minute. To do this on a standard 120V transmission line, you would need a circuite capable of handling 7500 amps. That's a very unlikely scenario, as most household circuits are in the 15 to 25 amp range, and very few exceed about 50 amps or so. The only way the required recharge rate could be realized would be if the voltage or amperage (realistically, probably both) were increased to excessively dangerous levels. And note, of course, that this is just to charge the car for the equivalent of a gallon of gas in a minute. Charging it to the equivalent of a full tank of gas over the span of a minute would take 10 to 20 times the current.

So even though these new batteries can fully recharge in 60 seconds, the net amount of power that they can hold must be very small indeed.


RE: Toshiba
By semo on 3/25/2007 6:35:16 AM , Rating: 2
quick recharge points that you will find in gas station or car parks allow for a much higher current draw than a household circuit. a citroen berlingo electrique can get 12 miles (or 20km) from a 10 minutes quick charge. at home you have to wait 8 hours for a full recharge though.

back to the article and this battery sounds like something between a super cap and an ordinary battery that can retain it's charge for long periods, can be recharged over 1000 times and in very short periods and has high power capability. is that what this is?


RE: Toshiba
By AnnihilatorX on 3/25/2007 9:27:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
"In the future, these batteries may be used in applications that require high-power capability rather than high-energy density, such as a battery in electronic devices and motor drive assistance in electric vehicles," said Nishide.


quote:
So even though these new batteries can fully recharge in 60 seconds, the net amount of power that they can hold must be very small indeed.


The artical mentioned "high capacity" is the more likely usage scenario and therefore you are contradicting yourself.

It's unlikely for such a high current draw. Some protection circuit would definitely be implemented to slow down the recharging process.

While I appreciate your calculation, electric motor tends to be tad more efficient than combustion motors.


RE: Toshiba
By Alexvrb on 3/25/2007 4:23:03 PM , Rating: 2
He might not have been dead-on with numbers, but he's still basically right with regards to charge time. Even a quick charge would take much longer than a minute, especially if your vehicle is road-legal and has a decent range.


RE: Toshiba
By Spivonious on 3/26/2007 9:49:02 AM , Rating: 2
And it takes 5-10 minutes to fill up your gas tank now, so what's the big deal?


RE: Toshiba
By Etsp on 3/26/2007 10:32:08 AM , Rating: 1
you sir, and your SUV, with it's 50 gallon tank, are part of the problem.


RE: Toshiba
By weskurtz0081 on 3/26/2007 12:09:41 PM , Rating: 2
Are you kidding me? Do you know what he does for a living? Have you ever owned your own business? What if you own a fleet of F-350's and drive one? Don't be a clown and just make false assumptions. You have no idea what he drives and why. You want to talk about part of the problem, then anyone that drives a petrol vehicle is part of the problem..... come on.


RE: Toshiba
By Alexvrb on 3/26/2007 7:24:11 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't take me 5-10 minutes to fill my tank, thanks to the magical plastic card I bring with me. Unless I stop in for that ever-important Slurpee. But on to the topic: Read Semo's post above. 12 miles for 10 minutes of "quick charging" - and that is with a high amperage source. That's for a vehicle with a 60MPH top speed, that is roughly the weight of a Civic. Imagine charging a higher-capacity battery array that gives such a vehicle a 100+ mile range. You'd better enjoy sitting around on your duff while it charges, or better yet buy two of them and alternate rides. Better not take it on vacation, either.


RE: Toshiba
By Some1ne on 3/26/2007 12:44:11 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The artical mentioned "high capacity" is the more likely usage scenario and therefore you are contradicting yourself.


It mentions "high charge/discharge capacity" offhandedly without qualification in a context where it's unclear if it's referring to how much charge the battery actually holds or how many times the battery is capable of cycling from its charged/discharged states.

The article also says "these batteries may be used in applications that require high-power capability rather than high-energy density", which seems to me to imply that although they can be used to generate a brief surge of energy (something which, as the article states, may be useful in assisting a conventional engine in accelerating a vehicle) they *don't* hold all that much energy (you just plain can't have a fully electric vehicle if your power source isn't capable of attaining a high energy-density). In other words, while they can generate sufficient output to move a vehicle, they aren't capable of sustaining that output long enough to be useful in the context of a fully-electric vehicle.


RE: Toshiba
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 3/26/2007 10:01:59 AM , Rating: 1
OK, but what if you link say 1,000 or 10,000 of these batteriers together. Would that not give you enough power to at least local trips....store, work, ect.. ?


RE: Toshiba
By kkwst2 on 3/26/2007 12:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
Look, if these things have lower energy density than current batteries, it won't help build an electric car. That's already one of the issues with batteries. Sure you could put 10,000 of them together, but if it's as big as a house, it's not going to be very practical. So we need something with more energy density, not less.


RE: Toshiba
By Janooo on 3/26/2007 11:07:00 AM , Rating: 2
It appears you mixed the words capacity with capability.
There is a difference.


RE: Toshiba
By brightwhite on 4/1/2007 12:31:04 PM , Rating: 2
In response to the high capacity:
This is most likely reference to power density per volume or per mass. Some batteries have poor capacity in terms of density such as older NiCd's. So I am sure the reference to high capacity is to the current know technologies, which means better expected performance.

Now to end this quibble about Electric cars:
Yes it will take time to charge batteries. Most batteries can be charged at 1C or at 1 x Capacity. The newer gererations of batteries like some of the LiPo's or A123systems can take a higher charge current even 2C.

As for discharge, some of these new batteries are giving up 20C constant, with 50C burst (<5 seconds)

So what good are batteries that take forever to charge?
Well most cars spend 90% of their day just sitting around. The average commute is less than 30 miles. This means to recharge after the average commute will take just a short time. To recharge after running around town will take overnight. So when you park it, charge it. It is that simple.

Most of the power requirements to drive cars come from thier mass. Force = Mass x Acceleration. Every time you have to slow down for traffic and stop lights your car will lose all that built up momentum. Electric cars have the option to recover some of that momentum. This benifit can extend the range of EV's by around 25% for city driving. Eletric cars can also weigh less with less movoing parts.
Reducing the mass, also reduces the power requirements.

So you don't like the idea of not having to fill up at gas stations, reducing your global warming impact, spending less per mile to operate an EV than an I.C.E powered car. Then maybe you should move to aonther country where severe smog chokes the air every day.


I need one now.
By ButterFlyEffect78 on 3/24/2007 1:27:43 PM , Rating: 2
I sure can use a few of those to power my brain because the energizer and the bunny are giving me headaches.




RE: I need one now.
By Tsuwamono on 3/24/2007 1:40:52 PM , Rating: 1
you gotta upgrade dude, i have been on Li-ion for months now. Thinking i might upgrade to this when it comes down in price a bit.


RE: I need one now.
By lennylim on 3/24/2007 1:49:12 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
i have been on Li-ion for months now

No no no.. you've been on lithium for months now.


RE: I need one now.
By bubbacub616 on 3/24/07, Rating: 0
Presenting the iPod Pico
By lennylim on 3/24/2007 1:47:27 PM , Rating: 2
Now we know what battery it'll be using.




RE: Presenting the iPod Pico
By Spoelie on 3/25/2007 9:01:04 AM , Rating: 2
You got the name wrong, it's the iPod iNvisiblo


RE: Presenting the iPod Pico
By kkwst2 on 3/26/2007 12:24:54 PM , Rating: 2
Given the lower energy density described, it would likely be the iPod Shoe-boxo


Who thought of it
By gramboh on 3/25/2007 4:53:44 AM , Rating: 2
Last week Japanese scientists explaced... placed explosive detonators at the bottom of Lake Lock Ness to blow Nessie out of the water.

Come on, someone must have thought of it besides me :)




RE: Who thought of it
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 3/26/2007 10:10:41 AM , Rating: 2
Nessie's skin is very thick and she does not hear so well in her old age. So, the explosive detonators will have no real effect on her.


By bobdeer1965 on 3/26/2007 1:23:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Thee Japanese scientists develop thin battery that can survive over 1,000 recharge cycles


Why can't a world famous website learn to write or pay a decent PROOF READER.




By Alexvrb on 3/26/2007 7:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe they DO have a proof reader, but he's cross-eyed. "I said across her nose, not up it!"


Typo.
By RMSistight on 3/24/2007 2:57:40 PM , Rating: 1
Might want to check your spelling buddy. It's "three".




RE: Typo.
By pertsa on 3/25/2007 5:13:18 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe it's the. THE Japanese scientists.


Upgrade
By GrandMareg on 3/24/2007 1:45:50 PM , Rating: 2
I recently bought one of those pong shirts and I think this would work great with those. I just have to wonder what their capacity is.

Anyone know more about these?




Does it catch on fire?
By Desslok on 3/24/2007 7:36:29 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry couldn't help myself.




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