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iPod killer #793 up on deck

Source close to Microsoft are confirming that the Redmond, Washington based company is developing its own rival to the hugely popular iPod music/video player. Apple has ruled the portable audio scene for years and has successfully fended off attacks from a number of strong competitors, but can they withstand a full assault from the 800 pound gorilla?

The sources point to Xbox guru Robbie Bach as the project leader for the music player. There is also word that Microsoft has held some closed door talks with representatives for the music industry to work out licensing deals. The new music player would be joined by a Microsoft-backed music service separate from the recently announced URGE music service co-developed with MTV. Reuters reports:

Most iTunes rivals charge monthly fees to access a catalog of entertainment, but some allow consumers to buy individual songs for about $1 each. Microsoft's service will emphasize the pay-per-download, or a la carte, model, the sources said. A subscription component will also be offered, according to early accounts of the planned service. One source, who has seen a demonstration of the service, said it was an improvement over iTunes. "They have been developing technologies that have really good music discovery and community," another source said. "iTunes is the 7-11 (of music stores). You don't hang out there."

Microsoft’s Windows Media Player 11 should serve as a nice launching platform for the new music player and online store. Album management and navigation is already much improved over Apple’s iTunes software in this editor’s opinion so all we need is hardware that both is easy to use and stylish. Microsoft has a large pool of talent to pull from in developing an iPod killer so I hope that we are not disappointed.


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Well, everyone say goodbye....
By BaronMatrix on 6/16/2006 5:56:51 PM , Rating: 1
to $10 billion in market share. Does MS realize that iPod is a SECTION in EVERY ELECTRONICS Store. Bose is making such a killign on iPod that MS doesn't have even the slghtest chance at getting more than 10% if that.

Wake up Steve and smell the burning money.




RE: Well, everyone say goodbye....
By TomZ on 6/16/2006 7:08:17 PM , Rating: 2
You're forgetting something, which is that Microsoft knows this already. That is why they are calling it an iPod killer because it is expected to include some compelling features/functionality/value beyond what Apple offers.


RE: Well, everyone say goodbye....
By TomZ on 6/16/2006 7:09:50 PM , Rating: 2
(more) For example, suppose Microsoft decided to design a very good unit and sell it at a loss (i.e., very cheap compared to iPod) in order to "buy" customers for its online music service.


By Tsuwamono on 6/16/2006 9:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
as much as i hate microsoft... if they produced something with better sound quality than Ipods, same storage capacity(and the ability to use it as a jump drive) and also sell it at such a low amount as they would make no money i would buy it in a second.


By BaronMatrix on 6/17/2006 4:28:41 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't matter. iPod has too much market presence. If they(MS) made the player compatible with all the iPod accessories out there, maybe they can get SOME share, but for the most part iPod has the kind of lead Windows has against any competition. Even MS. Plus it ses the generic MP3 format.


RE: Well, everyone say goodbye....
By Burning Bridges on 6/18/2006 6:57:37 AM , Rating: 2
There is just the problem that MS is deeply deeply uncool.

Apple on the otherhand is all brushed aluminium and cool colours.

Apple is a cool brand name. MS is just not.


RE: Well, everyone say goodbye....
By aGreenAgent on 6/18/2006 4:23:29 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is a cool brand name to people who don't follow tech things that well.

To everybody else, it's a company that has a handful of pretty cool products, and others that are more stylish than actually functional.


RE: Well, everyone say goodbye....
By rc71 on 6/21/2006 2:07:41 PM , Rating: 2
You said it.
Do you really think people prefer the nasty electric blue XP desktop. People just go with the flow.


RE: Well, everyone say goodbye....
By abhaxus on 6/17/2006 2:51:03 AM , Rating: 2
honestly i can't imagine any way in which the ipod will be unseated. what "compelling features" can anyone come up with that the ipod does not do that people actually want? sure it doesn't have an fm tuner built in but so few people care about that now that i don't see how it will matter. plus they have the radio remote as an attachment now.

i don't think most of you have actually worked retail lately, but the only thing that keeps people from buying ipods is price. my store does not carry the shuffle, and thus we sell a lot of cheapie mp3 players. if we had an ipod in the 50-70 range (shuffle 512mb) i doubt we would sell any non apple mp3 players.

the only way MS can beat them is price. if they put out a 60gb player with the same size or larger screen for less than 350 then maybe its possible. but i'm sure apple will just lower their prices in response. they DOMINATE the market in ways that i don't think anyone ever has.


RE: Well, everyone say goodbye....
By coolj on 6/19/2006 12:04:44 PM , Rating: 2
easy, think of the S50 Sirius Receiver w/o the subscription (ms provided free satelite radio/tv) + click to purchase songs/movies @ 99 cents. that would do it....


Hope they succeed!
By Myrandex on 6/16/2006 5:11:15 PM , Rating: 1
Gosh I remember the First Post days... well anyways I hope they succeed. I really am not a fan of the iPod. As an iAudio X5L user here, I appreciate not being forced to use one particular form of software, but then I also appreciate being able to actually take my freaking music off of the device and play it on my computer or burn it to a CD or whatever. I don't like itunes, and so if I ever were to come across an iPod I would definitely end up hacking it with Linux to use whatever the hell I want with it instead of apple's crappy software.




RE: Hope they succeed!
By iamright on 6/16/2006 6:26:50 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
instead of apple's crappy software.


Crappy? Only a small percentage of people would agree with you based on how many people love and use itunes and ipod. People use ipods because of itunes, all the other DAPs have failed because nobody offered a service as good as itunes. Your quirky needs are useless to the mass market so who cares what you think about that?


RE: Hope they succeed!
By Schadenfroh on 6/16/2006 6:55:22 PM , Rating: 2
I have to admit that I have grown to like itunes. I did not start using it until I bought my ipod video. I guess that it must have been horribly buggy in versions before I started using it (I started with iTunes 6) from as bad as people talk about it.


RE: Hope they succeed!
By fungry on 6/16/06, Rating: 0
RE: Hope they succeed!
By Bonrock on 6/17/06, Rating: 0
RE: Hope they succeed!
By glennpratt on 6/17/06, Rating: 0
RE: Hope they succeed!
By Burning Bridges on 6/17/2006 12:52:41 PM , Rating: 2
I once heared they where making a totally new OS, but I guess that was just too far fetched to be true, right?


RE: Hope they succeed!
By Burning Bridges on 6/17/2006 12:53:09 PM , Rating: 2
ok this comment was for the comment below, y'all >_<


RE: Hope they succeed!
By mindless1 on 6/18/2006 12:18:12 AM , Rating: 2
you have it backwards.

People use iTunes AFTER having their iPod, they don't buy the iPod for a sevice they don't even fully appreciate (or need) "yet".

The iPod is the answer to a teenager's need to be trendy, and answers the general populace need to feel tech savvy when they have no formal training or ability to properly weight the technology (though it doesn't help that full disclosure of all the details (of everything) isn't forthcoming in most cases).

Ultimately these kinds of softwares will evolve, and SOON. iTunes will be pretty much ignorable within the next couple years and the more important factors will be selection, price, and quality (also usability as related to audio format but given MS, we already know the format of preference in this case, unfortunately).


RE: Hope they succeed!
By justinmann on 6/18/2006 7:44:24 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I used iTunes for years before I ever purchased an iPod. I purhcased iTunes songs because Apple was the first major company to allow burning purchased music onto CD's. Additionally, they were not subscription based, which is what the majority of companies were trying to force users to adopt at the time. Apple did the music buying public a huge favor when it opened its doors, and I have rewarded them for having a sensible fair model.


RE: Hope they succeed!
By Shenkoa on 6/22/2006 3:13:21 AM , Rating: 1
What a complete waist of screen space.

You have stated the obviouse, congradulations.


RE: Hope they succeed!
By tuteja1986 on 6/17/2006 3:55:19 AM , Rating: 2
amm , god :( i hear from gamespot the dude is working on portable game console to fight against psp and ds. I hear from anandtech , that they are making an ipod killer.I hear from other people that they are making mobile phone :(

nothing is offical untill microsoft tells what the hell are they making :(


Exciting
By gramboh on 6/16/2006 5:30:34 PM , Rating: 1
Glad to hear it. I *hate* iTunes with a passion, especially on the Windows platform, it just sucks. I have an Archos mp3 player (GMini XS202 20gig) which acts as a USB mass storage device, so handy to just drag and drop.

I hope MSFT comes out with something good to silences the snooty Apple zealots.




RE: Exciting
By Conner on 6/16/06, Rating: -1
RE: Exciting
By cochy on 6/16/2006 5:49:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Just keep in mind apple is always one step ahead of microsoft.


I guess if that were true, Apple would have more market share than MS in something that they actually compete with Microsoft in. Which as it stands now, is nothing. MS hasn't entered the portable music player market yet.


RE: Exciting
By Pirks on 6/17/2006 1:29:16 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I guess if that were true, Apple would have more market share than MS in something that they actually compete with Microsoft in.
OS/2 was WAY above Win 95 - and lost it, was totally destroyed by MS, being much more superior product. So don't assume that superior product ALWAYS has largest marketshare - eventhough NT is a decent OS, I've seen MS stuff being totally stumped upon - Linux beat NT to death in server market and its IPSec and TCP/IP and firewall is not just way above NT/W2K/XP - it's in totally different league, and same with Mac OS X in GUI/user friendlieness area - it stomped on Windows just like OS/2 did. Strange - it seems like it's very easy to stomp on any OS done by MS, they don't do a lot of cool stuff... well, not everything from MS sucks of course but examples with Apple and IBM OS/2 tell rather sad story - go read wikipedia, interesting stuff, really.


RE: Exciting
By Griswold on 6/17/2006 3:19:29 AM , Rating: 2
And who developed the first OS/2 version for IBM? Right, it was Microsoft.


RE: Exciting
By Pirks on 6/17/2006 5:46:30 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
who developed the first OS/2 version for IBM?


It was joint effort between IBM and MS, which was dumped by MS later in favor of Win 3.x, which was a multitasking DOS shell, and looked rather pathetic compared to OS/2 2.x

The point was - inferior stuff can often achieve market domination, no matter what company does it, and whether the same company produces superior product(s).

All this is tech talk - superior as in elegance/tech sense. Windows was always more superior from the average Joe's point of view. Average Joe doesn't care about elegance and other things he doesn't comprehend. No surprise Vista can clone Tiger and get away with it and keep its 90% market share or so - as long as Apple can't grasp what average Joe needs they won't get market dominance. Even is Tiger is light years ahead of Vista or whatever. Same with Linux and others - cool tech not always sells well, we all know this, right? :-)


RE: Exciting
By Locutus465 on 6/18/2006 12:05:47 AM , Rating: 2
Technically Windows NT, which was developed for corperations. At the time microsoft maintained 2 code bases, DOS based 3x (later 9x) for consumers, and NT for corperations.


RE: Exciting
By Pirks on 6/18/2006 5:11:19 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Technically Windows NT, which was developed for corperations
I know about NT - I meant MS dumped a lot of advanced stuff like OS/2 WPS which has never been replaced with anything remotely as cool as that. Well, later MS made their own replacement for OS/2 SOM which they called COM (later grown into DCOM), but this was WAY after OS/2 2.0 got this stuff. Even if MS made the kernel, the UI part was done by IBM (SOM and WPS) and this is the part where I spoke of dumping. Leaving kernel and replacing UI part - yeah, not quite dumping of everything, but imagine NT with Aqua on top - everybody will speak of "MS dumping Windows" - why? Because for most ppl Windows is GUI, not kernel - hence my words about dumping - although yes, not everything from IBM was dumped - just GUI - probably most sexy part of OS/2 (at least for me, YMMV)


RE: Exciting
By Hare on 6/17/2006 4:27:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Glad to hear it. I *hate* iTunes with a passion, especially on the Windows platform, it just sucks. I have an Archos mp3 player (GMini XS202 20gig) which acts as a USB mass storage device, so handy to just drag and drop.
It takes 2 second of googling to be able to do the exactly same thing with iPods. Still everyone seems to moan and complain about this. iPods support this out of the box, but don't let you access the actual music folder. Add a small third party app and oh dear. It works!


RE: Exciting
By Legolias24 on 6/22/2006 3:18:27 PM , Rating: 2
Actually you're mistaken in that you can access the music folder. I have an iPod Nano myself, and a co-worker of mine was interested in some songs I had just added. If you turn off "hidden files and folders", the music folders on the iPod will be revealed. Mind you when I did this, five folders appeared with all of my songs spread out over all five. I'm not sure why it appeared this way but it did.

HOWEVER, the file names are (what appear to be) randomly generated alphanumeric characters. You would have to listen to the songs by double clicking on them to figure out which songs you want to copy, and after you copy them, rename them. The files worked like a charm (probably because I didn't purchase them through any online music service; instead I just ripped them from the CD I had purchased...seriously I actually bought a music CD :P)

Lucky for me, because i had just added the songs, I sorted the list by date and had no trouble finding what i was looking for (I had added the songs the night before and I had added only those songs my co-worker wanted :P ).

As for everyone that hates iTunes, if you don't like it, use something else! I, for one, only use iTunes at work to listen to songs on my iPod while it is charging, but at home I still use Winamp v5 (I've been using it since v2.5) beause to me it is the best computer audio player on the market. The only time I use iTunes is when I want to add songs to my iPod and I fail to see what everyone's problem is. (I suppose it also helps that I don't want to pay to download music! :P)


RE: Exciting
By Burning Bridges on 6/18/2006 6:54:51 AM , Rating: 2
Archos being renowned for quality...

I believe that iPods also act as mass-storage when hooked up. Or at least the last iPod I hooked up to my PC (Gen4 I believe) did. I don't know about the drag and drop though.


apple = n00bs
By Randum on 6/17/2006 1:42:13 AM , Rating: 4
apple is for n00bs (period).




RE: apple = n00bs
By iamright on 6/17/2006 2:35:04 AM , Rating: 2
Are you getting an allowance still? What about people who want accessories? Who in their right mind would buy anything but an ipod? Walk into any store that sells DAPs and compare the ipod accessories to the others, How many toshiba gigabeat cases do you see? How many cases do you see for creative or iriver or phillips or sandisk DAPs, maybee 1% of the accessories are for non apple DAPs. I think that non apple is for idiots, or the lemmings that walk off the cliff of speudo individualism.


More like its for girls
By Sharky974 on 6/17/2006 4:03:15 AM , Rating: 2
And there's a lot of girls so, it works out for them!


RE: apple = n00bs
By Loser on 6/17/2006 5:56:05 AM , Rating: 2
thats the whole thing ipod can do only BASIC things. for all the rest you must pay more which brings the price higher and higher. while when u buy competition its already included.


RE: apple = n00bs
By Hare on 6/17/2006 4:32:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
apple is for n00bs (period).
If people who appreciate good usability and style are n00bs I guess you are right. I would rather stick pins under my fingernails than use a crappy creative etc with crappy user interface and crappy software.


iPod killer? Kamikaze more like it.
By pcmodem on 6/16/2006 5:13:41 PM , Rating: 2
(drum roll)
Coming soon... the Microsoft Kamikaze portable music player!

But seriously, who'd want a portable music player that crashes 3 times a day. This coming from an MCSE, mind you.




RE: iPod killer? Kamikaze more like it.
By jkresh on 6/16/06, Rating: 0
RE: iPod killer? Kamikaze more like it.
By sprockkets on 6/16/2006 6:17:48 PM , Rating: 2
Easy idiot. Use a pocket pc and you will understand.


By jkresh on 6/16/2006 7:14:48 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I have had several pocket pc's, including an original ipaq, a viewsonic (got it for free) and am currently using a 2215. I also had an ibm workpad. So I have been using widows ce for some time (8 + years) and have rarely had any crashes, and when it has crashed it has more often then not been due to a 3rd party app. Now ce 1.0 devices did have some problems but most of those were solved years ago and since version 3 it has been quite good.


By Trisped on 6/19/2006 3:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
I have never had any problems with MCE crashing. It is probably user error, as 90%+ of all computer problems are.


Not too impressed
By saratoga on 6/16/2006 6:22:10 PM , Rating: 3
I tried out WMP10 to sync music to my friends portable the other day. It was a real pain in the ass. And to top it off, I got a random conflict with ffdshow, and even once that was fixed, I still occasionally get random sync errors. iTunes isn't great, but its a lot better. WMP11 better be worlds better ...




RE: Not too impressed
By Bonrock on 6/17/2006 12:30:58 AM , Rating: 2
WMP11 better be worlds better ...

It is. And if you want to see for yourself, you can download the beta here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/play...


RE: Not too impressed
By bpurkapi on 6/17/2006 5:56:16 AM , Rating: 2
Why wait for a microsoft product that will simply mimic what iTunes or any other media player already does? WMP 11 will be worlds better, it will be a direct copy of what is already out there, but MS will claim it is better. This crap happens all the time, even if Apple produces worse music software than a 3rd party its marketing will win the day.
Its really sad that Microsoft and Apple are the two choices, just like Amd and Intel, nvidia/ATI, or democrats and republicans. I want to see more viable competition in the tech arena than two major companies per market segment and various small players that are either killed or bought out by the big boys.


iPod as a USB mass storage device.
By tylerhesthedude on 6/16/2006 10:42:31 PM , Rating: 2
You can use an ipod as a mass storage device. iTunes has a button to enable this function.




RE: iPod as a USB mass storage device.
By MamiyaOtaru on 6/17/2006 12:42:42 AM , Rating: 2
I think that's pretty widely known. The bit about it that sucks is that songs that are dragged over into iPod mass storage can't then be listened to (lame lame lame). I much prefer my Samsung, which lets me drag and drop and create folders using explorer/konqueror/finder/console/whatever without having to go through iTunes or WiMP 10.


RE: iPod as a USB mass storage device.
By Hare on 6/17/2006 6:33:08 AM , Rating: 2
As I said above. There's a small third party application that lets you mount the music folder and drag n drop music files. Google to the rescue.


Is this seperate
By Sharky974 on 6/17/2006 3:59:33 AM , Rating: 2
From their Xboy portable videogame system?

From what I understand..they wanted to creat a portable but leverage their games. They always said they wouldn't do a portable unless they could leverage a strength of their's. AKA a straight ipod clone they wouldn't do. Only if they could bring something new to the table. I'm not clear if the "Ipod killer" and Xboy are one and the same?

Meh, with the Sony PSP not doing nearly as well as I thought, I'm not sure about this. A Hard Drive+powerful game hardware automatically means you're looking at a 299+ machine probably. I'm not sure that's compelling. But on the other hand, maybe it is if they do it right. Maybe make a portable videogame/music/ultra mobile PC hybrid. I dont know. It's hard to make a video game handheld that doubles as a digital music player though. The ergonomics of the huge screen dont work. See PSP.




RE: Is this seperate
By Sharky974 on 6/17/2006 4:06:04 AM , Rating: 2
Robbie Bach=Xbox division.

J Allard was also missing from the Xbox360 presentation at E3, reason given, he was rumored to be working on the Xboy.

In other words if those two guys are involved, it's almost certain to be a game machine as well.


RE: Is this seperate
By gplracer on 6/17/2006 8:57:38 AM , Rating: 2
To me the weakness of the ipod is how long the batter lasts when playing videos. Also the itunes music is just a hassle with the copy protection which is worthless. The availabilty of music and the ease of use when playing the music on the ipod is its strength.


Marketing
By byonic on 6/17/2006 9:25:10 AM , Rating: 2
Apple is the new Sony.

It's all marketing. All of it. If Microsoft can figure that out (speak to the gurus at Bose for guidance) they'll make money like a yuppie sucks down vanilla latte's.




RE: Marketing
By MobileZone on 6/17/2006 4:05:11 PM , Rating: 2
No, it is not. Apple is a boring hype. Only marketing and a bunch of empty-brain users. While Sony is just waking from it's long hibernation.

I don't know who in sanity would buy and carry a mobile and a mp3 player if we're all able to buy and carry a single mobile with mp3 player. Name it Sony Walkman phone.

An ipod is just a dead paper weight on one's pocket, not to mention the "Motorola pod", that's a good joke.

Sony invented it all and it is just about time for them to rule the market again. Sony also rules part of the music and entertainment industry.


RE: Marketing
By INeedCache on 6/17/2006 5:01:49 PM , Rating: 2
Sony invented what "all"?


best of luck to MS...
By plonk420 on 6/18/2006 9:38:54 PM , Rating: 2
competition is good, but nothing quite matches up with the visual design or UI of the iPod. they'll have to enlist the likes of Ikea or Bodum or Porsche to compete with iPod as well as some UI that's as good/better/almost as good as the iPod to even have a hope. or to be mindblowingly cheap or even lose money.




RE: best of luck to MS...
By Sharky974 on 6/19/2006 6:09:25 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah cus a white plastic rectangle is so genius.


RE: best of luck to MS...
By iamright on 6/19/2006 11:22:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yeah cus a white plastic rectangle is so genius.


The market share would suggest that it is. It's more genius than all the other rectangular plastic DAPs out there. Good design is usually achieved with simplicity and that is somthing apple does better than the so called competition.


Huh?
By SLCentral on 6/16/2006 5:14:20 PM , Rating: 2
Er, where does it say it's official?




RE: Huh?
By Phynaz on 6/16/2006 5:20:42 PM , Rating: 1
Exactly what I was thinking.


RE: Huh?
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 6/16/2006 5:26:27 PM , Rating: 2
**Fixed**


i wouldnt count microsoft out.....
By whalenapp81 on 6/16/2006 6:22:20 PM , Rating: 3
i think microsoft has a very good chance of gain a reasonable markshare in the ipod/itunes business, cause it wouldnt be that hard for them to throw several hundred million at computer makers to get them to to, first have that itunes like software on all the machines, since it is in media player, supposedly, and second, package a ipod nano like device with their pcs as a bonus, so imagine the amount of computers sold this x-mas, and then imagine, 70% of those packaged with a microsoft ipod nano thingy, instant market share, so lets not count microsoft out.




By iamright on 6/16/2006 6:34:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
i wouldnt count microsoft out


I would,
I bought a toshiba gigabeat for $400 when it came out and tried to use it with media player and napster, It sucked so bad that I had to sell it and get an ipod. I then was converted to itunes (I had used winamp before). Microsoft isn't known for innovation, they have always coppied or tired to catch up, If creative has failed along with all the other I think that MS will too. Who is ignorant enough to think that apple will sit around letting this happen? Who? The next generation ipods will be even more advanced and have wireless etc etc. I think that there are too many people cheering for the underdogs without any real reason to.


Sign me up
By Scrith on 6/16/2006 6:51:42 PM , Rating: 2
Sign me up for one.

And call it: XPod

I've had it with iTunes. Of course, Microsoft will probably make all the same mistakes there (propriety music formats, DRM up the ying-yang, etc.).




RE: Sign me up
By rushnrockt on 6/16/2006 8:20:56 PM , Rating: 2
You must have missed a bit of technology development, MS has built up quite a support system for DRM and don't count on it to support many audio formats outside of what it dims profitable/secure. MS already has created a backbone for music distribution and since no other company was able to pull it off against Apple, MS decided to throw its weight at it. Expect some companies that use MS technology to be pissed as their provider is going to compete against them. There were several articles on this topic recently, I recommend looking around.


i think this is good.
By Xavian on 6/16/2006 8:14:10 PM , Rating: 2
I think this is good, since Apple has had a stanglehold on the audio player market for too long, better competition brings lower prices and better products for the consumers (see AMD vs Intel war).

NOW if only some big company got in on the soundcard market, maye, just maybe Creative would get off its ass and do something about poor drivers ;) (on a completely unrelated topic)




RE: i think this is good.
By Burning Bridges on 6/18/2006 7:03:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
see AMD vs Intel war

AMD effectively has swapped hats and is now the value king. Huge price cuts mean that AMD is competitive £ for £ against anything Intel has to offer. And the Core 2 hasn't even been officially released yet.

which is mega off topic I know :)


The official Picture of Ipod Killer
By iamright on 6/17/2006 10:53:21 AM , Rating: 2
By PT2006 on 6/17/2006 1:09:23 PM , Rating: 2
Um, or not. I'm fairly certain the "official" picture will coem from Microsoft, not some blurry camera picture on engadget.


6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other...
By SteelyKen on 6/17/2006 10:59:52 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know why anyone would waste their money on any of this. Pay a dollar for a lossy-compressed song that has multiple restrictions on how it can be used? You people are stone-cold NUTS!




By michael2k on 6/17/2006 3:36:22 PM , Rating: 2
It worked for DVDs, after all. Why shouldn't it work for music too?


More like iPod Failure.
By Ralph The Magician on 6/17/2006 4:01:09 PM , Rating: 2
It's going to be pretty hard to beat out the iPod, considering that aside from the removable battery which most people don't care about, the iPod does everything right and works flawlessly with iTunes.

The push for this Windows Media Player 11 device, is of course Urge. Urge is really nothing new. It's a rebranding of Rhapsody, Napster, and Yahoo! Music. Unless Microsoft dramatically overhauls this idea of DRM licensed music, it's never going to fly. The reality is that it's been around for a while now and it's so buggy and such a pain in the ass to use, that it's really no wonder the iTunes/iPod reigns supereme.

With the iPod it's easy. Click song you want, credit card gets charged, song gets downloaded, plug in iPod, song goes to iPod. Done.

With Microsoft it's, go online to Windows Update, make sure you have the latest DRM component installed, if you don't install it and then restart, log onto Urge/Rhapsody/Napster/Yahoo! Music, click to download song. Check to see the DRM rights on the song to find out if you are allowed to transfer it to a device, or you have to buy it, try to transfer it to the device, test and see if it works. If it doesn't work, it likely says something like liscense expired. Go back online and download the latest firmware, reformat the player, try to transfer again. Get really mad and throw the device through the window.

Sure, that doens't happen everytime, and after I got used to working with an iRiver H10 and Rhapsody it was actually pretty sweet. But the reality is, it's still a pain in the ass for MOST people.




RE: More like iPod Failure.
By mindless1 on 6/18/2006 12:20:57 AM , Rating: 2
Does everything right? You must be joking. It does many "obvious" things, looked sleek, and Apple was a recognized branding. That's about all, beyond being first to market with a product with that degree of evolution. Being first unfortunately does mean more than anything else in this case, momentum was everything.


By jcjdoss on 6/17/2006 11:57:31 PM , Rating: 2

Here is a photoshoped version of what it will probably look like
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrissiedoss/16849499...

Here is the link to the blurry pics
http://flickr.com/photos/chrissiedoss/169327376




By Sharky974 on 6/18/2006 1:25:22 AM , Rating: 2
I consider it likely it will have gaming features. I dont see any gaming buttons on that.

Unless Ipod-killer and Xboy are seperate products.

It certainly has a large enough screen to be gaming capable, though, and it still looks pretty sleek, unlike say a PSP, which doesn't work well as a music player.


No way!
By Clauzii on 6/18/2006 7:03:16 PM , Rating: 2
To make an iPod killer more than Microsoft is needed...

iPod rules - no less :)




RE: No way!
By rc71 on 6/21/2006 2:14:06 PM , Rating: 2
And I will never use it any other way. So, I don't mind the Apple has changed the usage agreements twice. If later my player breaks and Apple says, sorry buy everything all over again, I'll be fine with that.

*** That's the problem. Once you choose apple you CAN'T just switch over. That's why the proprietary stuff sucks, not that the iPod isn't a great appliance. MS won't beat apple because they are just as bad if not worse then Apple. Though they may start give stuff away. 10 songs/month with MSN internet and such.


My opinion
By SexyJames on 6/20/2006 6:50:59 PM , Rating: 2
I think iTunes is a brilliant music player, and I bought a 3rd gen iPod because back then I didn't know about any other players besides iPods. It's been a great player, I don't like it because it's "hip" but because I like the music quality mainly... Would be interesting to see Microsoft have an attempt at the market.




RE: My opinion
By rc71 on 6/21/2006 2:11:11 PM , Rating: 2
And I will never use it any other way. So, I don't mind the Apple has changed the usage agreements twice. If later my player breaks and Apple says, sorry buy everything all over again, I'll be fine with that.

*** That's the problem. Once you choose apple you CAN'T just switch over. That's why the proprietary stuff sucks, not that the iPod isn't a great appliance. ***


By AlexWade on 6/16/2006 8:40:25 PM , Rating: 1
Even though iPod are overpriced and a new one comes every Sunday, it has the best DRM and best sound. Granted, DRM should stand for Digital Rape Management since it takes aways rights. But Apple's is the lesser of two evils. And, of course, Microsoft will charge $2 if they win, unlike Apple.

The only way you can kill the iPod is if keep songs cheap and have looser DRM requirements.

And besides, eventually I will get a Mac. Even though nothing will replace my PC, I want my songs to be available on both computers.




By srswart on 6/18/2006 8:55:24 PM , Rating: 2
You don't get that the Rights in DRM are for the producer and owner of the media not you? You paid your $ to listen to the music per the license agreement you signed when you installed the software; and nothing more. Why is that so difficult to comprehend.


Everyone already has an ipod
By ElJefe69 on 6/16/2006 11:51:26 PM , Rating: 1
If you look at the number of them sold, everyone who realistically would want to bother getting a portable computerized walkman already has one.

or, wants an ipod.

good luck!




RE: Everyone already has an ipod
By Griswold on 6/17/2006 6:17:14 AM , Rating: 2
I have a MP3 player. Its not an ipod though and I'll never buy one. Cant say I feel lonely though.


RE: Everyone already has an ipod
By DragonFire on 6/17/2006 12:24:04 AM , Rating: 3
I don't think so, not only do I not want one but I will give up listening to music before I buy one.

I am more then happy with my iRiver iHP-120 which can play on map, wma, or even ogg files. Don't need any software either since the 20GB of loving can be used as a mass storage device. Being able to loadup modded firmware (rockbox) makes it even better.




By byonic on 6/16/2006 5:28:36 PM , Rating: 2
Make it sexy. The metrosexuals will buy the whole rainbow of colors. If it's "chic" enough to make a well maincured gen-x'er squeal like a school girl, landfills will be stocked with ipods.




Offtopic
By electriple9 on 6/16/2006 5:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
What a difference the os and software can make. The iAudio X5L looks like its got some nice software features, but the hardware its self isnt too shiny. Ipod would be alot better with the software the iAudio X5L uses.
Thanks




Well, everyone say goodbye....
By BaronMatrix on 6/16/2006 5:50:10 PM , Rating: 2
to $10 billion in market share. Does MS realize that iPod is a SECTION in EVERY ELECTRONICS Store. Bose is making such a killign on iPod that MS doesn't have even the slghtest chance at getting more than 10% if that.

Wake up Steve and smell the burning money.




riiiight....
By teng029 on 6/16/2006 7:43:36 PM , Rating: 2
seeing is believing.




By Saist on 6/16/2006 8:28:23 PM , Rating: 2
The first problem that I think Microsoft faces is Itunes. Whether or not anyone likes to admit it, Itunes is one of the reasons to get an Ipod. It has a very slick user interface and makes managing, and buying, large amounts of music rather painless. Then there is the whole licensed music and content behind Itunes to deal with, the actual meat of Itunes. Microsoft would have it's work cut out to duplicate Itune type deals with record companies.

The second problem I think Microsoft faces is file support. Itunes and Ipod built themselves upon MP3, and in the MP3 market the Ipod is the dominant player. Outside of the MP3 market is where you see a lot of competition, specifically among the players supporint .ogg. While the chances of Microsoft supporting a GPL'd format on ANYTHING is questionable, Microsoft will need an additional "hook" to compete among the active second hand market. Just supporting .wma and .mp3 isn't going to be enough to raise any device above the crowd. If that was all it took, Iriver would be number one.

While Microsoft may have a chance to design a good product, they would run into the same problem that manufactures ran into against the Gameboy.

It doesn't matter how good your product is in comparison to the competition. If the competition offers more content, or better content, they will win.




iPod Killer
By couppi on 6/16/2006 10:14:40 PM , Rating: 2
An iPod killer isn't going to be something exactly like an iPod. It's going to be something completely different. Also, the sound quality of WMA is pretty bad.




Competition
By INeedCache on 6/16/2006 11:20:25 PM , Rating: 2
I'd like to see about ten other companies come out with iPod-like devices, and they all be good. Competition, it's good for us all.




Exclusive first pictures
By Spadge on 6/17/2006 9:12:04 AM , Rating: 2
Exclusive first pictures of the MicroSoft iPod killer: http://tinyurl.com/nbu9o




microsoft itunes
By res08hao on 6/17/2006 12:51:44 PM , Rating: 2
what a load of crap. this was obviously written by a hack in redmond.

"easy to use and stylish". there is no microsoft product that would hear those words.




ipod demise
By moxy on 6/17/2006 4:12:33 PM , Rating: 2
Wish-list for a better itunes/ipod:1) no static bumps at tracks that run into each other (eg Sgt Pepper's or Rite of Spring) 2) consistent and accurate upload of titles/ composers ( no more artists called "Allegro") 3) no audible whine from hard drive.4) no wipe-out of library if ipod is connected to a different computer than the original downloader. 6) built in mike for voice recording.




well...
By judasmachine on 6/18/2006 12:45:24 AM , Rating: 2
interesting but not surprising. competition is always good.




I think this is a first...
By Trisped on 6/19/2006 3:26:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Album management and navigation is already much improved over Apple’s iTunes software in this editor’s opinion so all we need is hardware that both is easy to use and stylish.
I think this is the first time I have read a Daily Tech article that has include the words iPod, but not included a blind chant to its greatness. Happy day!

Looks interesting, but as always I reserve real judgment tell they have a real product.




"We’re Apple. We don’t wear suits. We don’t even own suits." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs











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