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Wolf with Trophy light
Considered to be the most advanced of its kind in the world, the Trophy APS is now being fielded.

The Israel Defense Forces announced on August 6 that it had successfully completed a series of tests on a new defense system for the Merkava Mark IV Main Battle Tank (MBT).

The system, known as “Trophy" was developed by Army Headquarters in cooperation with the Rafael Armaments Development Authority and the Defense Ministry.

The system includes an F/G Band fire-control radar with four flat-panel antennas mounted on the vehicle, with a 360-degree field of view. When a weapon is fired at the vehicle, the internal computer uses the signal from the incoming weapon and calculates an approach vector. Once the incoming weapon is fully classified, the computers calculate the optimal time and angle to fire the neutralizers. The response comes from two rotating launchers installed on the sides of the vehicle. The launchers fire the neutralizing agents, which are usually small metal pellets like shotgun shot. The system is designed to have a very small kill zone, so as not to endanger troops adjacent to the protected vehicle.

The system is designed to work against all types of anti-tank missiles and rockets, including handheld weapons such as rocket propelled grenades. The system can simultaneously engage several threats arriving from different directions, is effective on stationary or moving platforms, and is effective against both short and long-range threats. Newer versions of the system include a reload feature for multiple firings. The Trophy development roadmap includes an enhanced countermeasure unit to be available in the future for protection against kinetic energy penetrators.

There is also a version called “Trophy Light” which is meant to be fitted on light vehicles, such as the M113, Stryker, "Golan", and "Wolf" APCs.

The first battalion of Trophy equipped Merkava IVs are expected to be fielded in 2010. The system will be fully integrated into existing Merkava III and Merkava IV MBTs as well as the Namer APC.

Trophy is not the worlds first Active Protection System (APS), that honor falls to the Russian designed Drozd and Arena APS's. However these systems have not seen widespread deployment, with only 255 T-55Ms equipped with Drozd and an unknown amount of other tanks equipped with Arena. 

The U.S. Army tested Trophy in 2006 but decided to hold off purchase in favor of their native APS under development by Raytheon, “Quick Kill”. However, this system is not expected to fielded for some time.

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Necessity is the mother of invention....
By kilkennycat on 8/7/2009 12:36:08 PM , Rating: 4
When you are the population of a very small nation and under constant threat of annihilation then focussed creativity and invention abounds. A message for the US, bloated by rampant consumerism and personal self-interest and rapidly losing its technical edge with its "rush to the bottom" in academic standards.




RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Spivonious on 8/7/2009 12:38:53 PM , Rating: 2
I guess we'll leave out the fact that Israel gives the surrounding countries good reasons to hate them. I really wish the U.S. would stop supporting them. They are just as bad as the Palestinians.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Spivonious on 8/7/09, Rating: -1
RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Chillin1248 on 8/7/2009 1:20:40 PM , Rating: 4
Can we please leave political discussion out of a Technology site.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By lukasbradley on 8/7/2009 1:41:03 PM , Rating: 5
This is the funniest post I've ever seen on DT.


By crystal clear on 8/8/2009 2:42:31 AM , Rating: 1
Oh really !

In the past I made a comment about TIBET & the response was-

RE: What about Tibet ....why Apple
By Gul Westfale on 7/23/09, Rating: 4
By Gul Westfale on 7/23/2009 11:22:39 PM , Rating: 4

maybe this gets so much attention here because THIS IS A TECH WEBSITE, not a political website.



So you are talking nonsense ...think before you post !


By ipay on 8/7/2009 5:59:42 PM , Rating: 2
The only person here who's whining is you, Mr. Hamas Apologist.


By Samus on 8/7/2009 7:29:17 PM , Rating: 2
I think people hate jews because they know how to have fun, and the palestinians are a bunch of sourpusses and just hate it.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Belard on 8/7/2009 8:45:59 PM , Rating: 5
Hey!

Do you mean that Israel developed bulldozers that are sea-worthy and can cross the Atlantic to bulldoze my house?!

WOW!


By PhoenixKnight on 8/8/2009 1:38:58 PM , Rating: 5
Now that the Trophy system is ready, they're ready to start development on those bulldozers.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Beno on 8/7/09, Rating: -1
By dardas on 8/9/2009 8:32:57 PM , Rating: 2
they say ignorance is bliss.
i guess you're on cloud 9 all day long.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Chillin1248 on 8/7/2009 12:45:38 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Necessity is the mother of invention....


Indeed, Trophy was born out of the consquences of the 2006 Lebanon War and Operation Peace for Galilee. They showed that while enhanced armor did indeed reduce casulties from an average of 2 for the 1973 Yom Kippur War, 1.5 Operation Peace of Galilee (1982) and 1 for the 2006 Lebanon War; they still did not neutralize the threat.

While new tactics in the 2008 Operation Cast-Lead proved succesful, there is still a need to combat newer and heavier missiles.

-------
Chillin


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By bhieb on 8/7/2009 1:36:12 PM , Rating: 3
Looks promising for missile attacks, but would probably do little for tank to tank combat. I doubt the depleted uranium round the A1 fires would not be impacted at all by steel shot.

Still a great addition since most anti-tanks attacks now are via ground troups and/or helicopters. I think the days of columns of tanks vs tanks is over.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By MrBlastman on 8/7/2009 1:48:36 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're right on target. ;) However, IF this tech is effective against helocopter fired anti-tank missiles, this could very well change things and make them severely in favor of tank-on-tank again.

All a tank convoy needs to do is include a few ZSU-23-4's w/this anti-missile tech on them or Vulcan's, some SA-19's (that is a menacing Russian beast btw) and our Apache's will be severely limited on deploying their M-230's (the 30 mm cannon). At 1.2 km (effective range of the M-230), you gotta get pretty high altitude-wise to make the firing arc of the tank's main guns to not extend into your airspace, which would make you fodder for the ZSU's and SA-19's.

Without the Hellfire's, Apaches will have a heck of a time taking out large tank groups safely (or they'll have to double up on targets but I don't even know if 2 Hellfire's at once can get through the defense).

This new tech is making the battlefield interesting. It was only yesterday we were declaring the modern tank dead.


By Chillin1248 on 8/7/2009 9:00:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, Trophy is effective against air-launched anti-tank missiles.

The Merkava IV series also has the ability to target and shoot down helicopters due to its advanced fire control systems.

-------
Chillin


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Hyperion1400 on 8/8/2009 12:37:44 AM , Rating: 3
True, the system can probably take down one or two hellfires, but an Apache/Cobra/KA-50/KA-50/Mi-24 can very easily fire 8-12 laser guided AT rockets in the span of about 3 sec; not to mention the Kamov series and Hind have the ability to carry and deliver 250 lbs and 500 lbs guided bombs(not sure what type of guidance system they use). And dont forget, all of those Helis have the ability to carry FFARs which(when fired en masse) have the ability to critically damage tanks and completely destroy light and medium vehicles. In terms of loadout, the Apache and Cobra can carry 78 88mm FFARs on a single mission and the Russian Helis can carry upto 160 80mm FFARs giving all 4 ridiculous destructive capability.

This doesn't even include the prospect of infantry ambushes. Yes, it can destroy a rocket propelled grenade, but does it set it off or simply disable it? If it is the latter an OG-7V or TBG-7V could very easily damage the defense system leaving the vehicle in question wide open for further attacks. And, there is still the dreaded PTRD to worry about.

Although AT rifles have been considered defunct for quite a while, the PTRD has still proven to be quite useful. In fact, in the current Iraq war an M1A2 was disabled by a single AP-I round fired into the engine from a PTRD. Granted, the rifle is pretty much useless vs. the rest of the tank armor, but it is still quite lethal vs. light vehicle and APCs. And, it is quite possible to destroy the drivers periscope and commanders camera if the PTRD is in the hands of a decently trained marksman.

Bleh

/end rank/armchair generaling


By Hyperion1400 on 8/8/2009 12:41:14 AM , Rating: 2
^_^°

It is supposed to read Apache/Cobra/KA-50/KA-52/Mi-24...


By MrBlastman on 8/8/2009 2:05:39 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the Mi-28.

As far as I know, the KA-50/52 and the Mi-24 have no bomb aiming system such as US Fighters have with CCIP (and CCIP is as rudamentary as they get for computational bombsights that are worth a darned nowadays). The pilots have to judge the impact point with their gut, but with a little training and repetition on the range they can get a good feel for it at certain altitudes/airspeeds. The Mi-24 pilots are specifically trained to do slashing attacks and it is quite common for a 4-ship group to come into a target zone from 4 different directions, criss-crossing the target area while dropping bombs. Talk about chaos.

As for the FFAR's, there are AP variants of them but as far as I know they are really only effective against lightly armored targets. Anything with heavy armor such as a main battle tank will just laugh them off for the most part. Granted, you can rain 78 down on a target zone really fast, once they're expended, that is it. They generally only reserve them for infantry or soft targets due to the higher degree of accuracy that is needed to take out anything heavy.

The book 'Apache' is a VERY good read - I HIGHLY recommend it. It is authored by Ed Macy and came out recently. It talks all about AH-64 employment in Afghanistan by the British Army.

Given the cost of Hellfires, I doubt our Chief of Staff would condone blatant expenditures of multiple hellfires to take out a single target (except in dire situations).

The AT rifles, those are an interesting scenario - though, they require the possible expenditure of a good sniper in the field due to them having to flank the armor position and hit them from behind (at least with an MBT); you're right about them on light armor, they are lethal.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Moohbear on 8/7/2009 1:51:14 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think the IDF's most immediate concern is tank-to-tank warfare.


By MrBlastman on 8/7/2009 1:58:16 PM , Rating: 2
You're right, they should mount this tech on a V.I.N.CENT or Maximillian (think The Black Hole) and send them into Palestine and Lebanon. :)


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Chillin1248 on 8/7/2009 8:57:04 PM , Rating: 5
To the contrary, our neighboring countries still mass huge tank formations.

Egypt for example has the following:

- 755 M1A1s

- 785 M60A3s

- 1,600 Soviet-made T-54, T-55, and T-62 models. Some of these older Soviet tanks were being refitted in the West with 105mm guns, diesel engines, fire-control systems, and external armor.

- Armored personnel carriers (APCs) consists of 1,000 M-113A2s from the United States, more than 1,000 BTR-50s and OT-62s from the Soviet Union, and about 200 Fahds, which were manufactured in Egypt based on a design from the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany). The army also had more than 700 infantry combat vehicles that were manufactured by the Soviet Union and Spain.

So as you can see that Israel is still in need of a potent tank force.

-------
Chillin


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Beno on 8/7/2009 11:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
afaik israel has a peace treaty with egypt. theres not much to worry about.
and you didnt mention the airforce which is the key player for israel, what they did in gaza was a good demonstration of capabilities anyway.


By SPOOFE on 8/8/2009 12:47:40 PM , Rating: 2
Rather, we currently pay both Israel and Egypt to not fight each other. Remember that the next time you hear someone say something like "I wish the US would stop supporting Israel"... if we do, we'd also have to stop supporting Egypt, and then they'd have less incentive to not send their massive tank battalions into Israel.


By dardas on 8/9/2009 8:40:41 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with Egypt is that there is always a rather high chance for an Islamic coup which will topple the currently western favored regime and declare all peace agreements null and void.


By Chillin1248 on 8/7/2009 9:02:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I doubt the depleted uranium round the A1 fires would not be impacted at all by steel shot.


Trophy is supposedly able to also target Kinetic Energy (KE) weapons, how it does this though is unkown.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By lukasbradley on 8/7/2009 1:27:37 PM , Rating: 5
It also helps to have billions of dollars in aid, weaponry, and technical assistance pouring into your country from abroad.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By DotNetGuru on 8/7/09, Rating: -1
RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Alphafox78 on 8/7/2009 3:40:11 PM , Rating: 2
ok Hitler, thanks for the info.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Low Key on 8/7/2009 5:59:14 PM , Rating: 3
Somehow I doubt 3 billion annually really makes that much difference when we just spent over 700 billion without even thinking about it.


By grath on 8/9/2009 3:08:57 PM , Rating: 2
The difference is that USA seems to be vastly more efficient at wasting money than most of the rest of the world is. Give an American defense contractor 3 billion and theyll come back with a half working prototype and ask for more money. The Israeli defense industry has a much stronger imperative to produce effective systems in a reasonable timeframe.

(And no, I dont mean to say that Jews are penny pinchers, although one could argue there is validity to such a statement, and thats its not necessarily a bad thing.


By ipay on 8/7/2009 6:12:45 PM , Rating: 3
No, the enemy is stupid people; you'll see one of them next time you look in a mirror. Do the world a favor and remove yourself from the genepool, thanks.


By Lord 666 on 8/8/2009 9:05:11 AM , Rating: 1
The US wastes 3 billion a year on ethanol subsidies; a fuel that is going nowhere. This money could be much better spent on making nuclear power plants or even making Cash for Clunkers even bigger.

The US helping Israel out is a good thing.


By SPOOFE on 8/8/2009 12:53:06 PM , Rating: 2
Do YOUR homework. The Palestinian Authority gets a billion from us, too. Egypt gets 2.2 billion. And further, we essentially pay Israel and Egypt to not fight each other, and in THAT case it's worked out marvelously! Israel is clearly open to reason; yet the Palestinians, getting a not insubstantial cool billion dollars annually themselves, can't seem to get their act together... so WHO is the enemy, again?


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Beno on 8/7/09, Rating: -1
By Beno on 8/8/2009 3:52:30 AM , Rating: 2
care to explain why you rate me down on this Mr Chillin from israel? :)
i didnt say anything offensive or irrelevent.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Chillin1248 on 8/7/2009 9:06:20 PM , Rating: 1
Israel recieves 2.3 Billion USD a year in FMA, Egypt recieves 1.3 Billion USD FMA and Suadia Arabia spends twice as much on their Defense Budget.

We can discuss specifics all day but the results show for themselves. Now can we get back to the topic at hand.

-------
Chillin


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Beno on 8/7/2009 11:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
saudi arabia and uae as well get their toys mostly from the US. and guess what, they are forced to buy.
afterall waging a war this kind is scuicide these days.


By rcc on 8/10/2009 3:02:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
and guess what, they are forced to buy.


Ah, damn, are those arms manufacturers using the shotgun sales approach again??


By dardas on 8/9/2009 8:48:06 PM , Rating: 2
Somehow, people forget that FMA essentially means "store credits". it's not free money that comes out of the taxpayer's pocket directly - it's essentially a government bailout for the American defense industry. Thus ensuring a healthy economy in peaceful times, while simultaneously providing political leverage.


By dardas on 8/9/2009 9:05:10 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, Israeli defense industries were MOST prolific after the Arab-led embargo in the 1970's.
before that, Israel was dependent on mostly French supplied arms.
the crisis led to the creation of the Merkava MBT, the (since superseded) Kfir & Lavi Fighter planes, Galil AR variants, and a slew of Missile related developments.

oh, and btw, it was the US stopping any funding of the Lavi advanced plane that forced the cancellation of development -> and procurement of the US F-16 through the FMA program. so you see, "Aid" can be used offensively...


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By Ammohunt on 8/7/2009 2:35:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
A message for the US, bloated by rampant consumerism and personal self-interest and rapidly losing its technical edge with its "rush to the bottom" in academic standards.


You mean the leftists in America?


By Steve73 on 8/7/2009 7:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing is wrong with consumerism or self-interest. All of mankind are concern about their own self interest. It has been this way since the beginning of time. Collectivism was only formed to protect individualism. To deny self interest is tantamount to denying your human. Self-interest = Human nature.


RE: Necessity is the mother of invention....
By jconan on 8/9/2009 3:05:16 PM , Rating: 2
Israel just needs to develop Skynet and turn it loose. Skynet will solve problems and bring peace to the middle east and around the world.


By grath on 8/9/2009 3:17:12 PM , Rating: 2
Dont forget that 01 (the machine city from the Matrix), was built in Saudi Arabia. So the question is which is worse for the world, Jews vs Muslims or Skynet vs 01?


By foolsgambit11 on 8/10/2009 4:58:06 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, did you just describe the premise for Asimov's Foundation trilogy? I think you did.


Predictions
By toyotabedzrock on 8/7/2009 8:05:27 PM , Rating: 2
I see a little boy in the Gaza Strip throwing a rock at the tank, and then I see a large portion of his body and other unfortunates near him being killed with a spray of pellets.




RE: Predictions
By Chillin1248 on 8/7/2009 8:47:47 PM , Rating: 2
This has already been thought of.

The fire control radar identifies the incoming projectiles and where they are going before deciding to fire.

-------
Chillin


RE: Predictions
By grath on 8/9/2009 3:55:45 PM , Rating: 1
So how long until someone figures out how to confuse the radar, or god forbid hack its computer and alter the firing parameters? If suddenly one day a system dumps a dozen blasts into a crowd of civilians, are you going to be able to prove that it was caused by the kid on the roof pointing a modified radar gun at your antenna, and would anybody believe you? Or that it was the computers fault and not Israels?

More strategically, they wait for the next war, and at the outset of the first major tank on tank engagement, suddenly all your Trophy systems start blasting any external equipment on their own tanks. A shotgun like blast may not be able to disable the cannon, but could take out missile launchers, reactive armor panels, comms gear, and leave your tank forces in an unfortunate state.

Its not the AEGIS system where you can wait for the threat detection before turning a key to go automatic, an incoming RPG doesnt give you enough time to turn the key, so the the threshold for going automatic becomes very low, effectively leaving it on all the time. I think the best we can hope for is that it saves more lives than it ends, and that we learn something from it about taking a human out of the decision loop to use deadly force.


RE: Predictions
By kilkennycat on 8/7/2009 10:08:14 PM , Rating: 5
Maybe it might be a good idea to teach the little boy not to throw rocks at tanks?? Or any other vehicle for that matter. Huh??


RE: Predictions
By MrJim on 8/8/2009 12:12:59 PM , Rating: 2
I say give them ordinary weapons instead so they can defend themselves as we do in the west. And dont allow the Palestinians to do.


hey...
By DASQ on 8/7/2009 12:34:14 PM , Rating: 2
I remember hearing about this.

The QuickKill may not be as effective (so I hear anyway), but let's be honest, it looks way 'effing cooler.




RE: hey...
By MozeeToby on 8/7/2009 1:31:14 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't have to be 100% effective to be a good deterrent though. If I have an RPG and a 50/50 chance of taking out a tank with it, I'll probably take the shot and hope for the best. Cut that down to 1 in 10 or even 5 and I think they'll see people think twice before revealing their position.

Most likely though, is that this will just lead the enemy to change tactics more towards shaped charge IEDs, assuming the enemy has the knowledge of how to make them. Offense is usually easier than defence these days, there's a million ways to destroy a vehicle but you can only have so many defensive systems developed, let alone mounted.


RE: hey...
By MrBlastman on 8/7/2009 1:39:34 PM , Rating: 2
What I'm curious about is will this take out a Hellfire?

_that_ would be VERY impressive if it can stop Hellfire attacks. Hellfires, Vikhrs and Atakas.


RE: hey...
By Iaiken on 8/7/2009 3:31:30 PM , Rating: 2
This form of defense would theoretically be able to stop any type of HEAT projectile attack via deformation or destruction of the warhead.

HEAT munitions penetrate armor via erosion caused by a high pressure jet of vaporized metal (usually aluminum or copper). Producing an effective jet requires that the shaped high explosive charge and it's casing remain intact. The effectiveness of the jet is also determined by distance and the detonation must occur in close proximity (within a few inches) to the armor since the pressure disperses quickly in open air.

So IF the Trophy system is capable of causing predetonation or deformation of the HEAT projectile, said projectile would be effectively neutralized. It is unlikely that HEAT munitions could be hardened against this kinetic force defense since armored warheads need to be of a diameter that they could effectively punch through their own armor as well as that of the target.

However, modern helicopters are capable of carrying and firing up to 16 hellfire missiles at a number of different targets or all at the same target. I still think that would be a hell of a waste of $1,040,000 worth of AGM-114's...


Battletech is here...
By MrBlastman on 8/7/2009 12:40:51 PM , Rating: 2
It is only 2009 and AMS (Anti-Missile System) has already been invented.

What next, PPC's?, ErLLAS? UAC20's? BAP? Artemis IV?




RE: Battletech is here...
By DASQ on 8/7/2009 12:52:37 PM , Rating: 2
Phalanx would like a word with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS


RE: Battletech is here...
By MrBlastman on 8/7/2009 1:05:57 PM , Rating: 2
Not to sound overly Nerdy, but Phalanx can't fit on a tank while still allowing the tank to have a main cannon/etc. That's what makes this new Israeli system more equivalent to AMS (which is mounted on a mech or tank in b-tech).


RE: Battletech is here...
By DASQ on 8/7/2009 2:00:11 PM , Rating: 2
/Nerd

The AMS IS a Phalanx. The AMS in the BT universe is smaller, but still heavy(okay, so it only weighs 1-4 tons based on which). The Phalanx is 5 tons, which is not even that bad considering the Phalanx comes with a lot more ammo (MW3 AMS - 100 rounds, CIWS - 900-1500) and what I think is a much larger cannon.

Give it 10 years, they'll have shrunk the Phalanx electronics package to fit with an M2HB or FN MAG or some such.


You missed one
By TheEinstein on 8/7/2009 12:43:26 PM , Rating: 2
England has been developing their own version, though they are keeping a tight lid on it's abilities. It's surprising that they of all nations are able to keep military secrets so tight, such as the special armor of the Challenger tanks.




RE: You missed one
By lightfoot on 8/7/2009 5:59:58 PM , Rating: 2
Funny how that works - no freedom of the press, no national security leaks.

In the UK, even if the media got their hands on this information they would not be allowed to publish it. It would be a violation of the Official Secrets Act.

In the US the media cannot be prosecuted for publishing anything so long as that which is published is factual.


RE: You missed one
By HotFoot on 8/8/2009 5:14:08 AM , Rating: 2
And depending what state you're in, it's not necessarily illegal to knowingly falsify the news. Are you listening, Florida?


Unfortunate situation
By zaki on 8/8/2009 6:14:25 PM , Rating: 1
its good that the israelis have proven themselves to be technologically capable. its SAD though that so much of the mind power will be devoted to killing machines. If they aren't trying to create killing machines to utterly over power their real enemies, they are busy being Islamophobic and creating more weapons.
And what of the lost talent in Palestine?? All wasted, now of all times humans need every brain on the planet working to solve real problems, not our self created problems.
Right or wrong, both the jews and muslims will look pretty stupid if we get hit by an asteroid or some other disaster occurs.

I wish more people had scientific minds. I bet most israeli engineers and scientists are not even as malicious as their inventions suggest, so it would be a great benefit to human existence if we could somehow divert all the brain power to solving actual problems.

And this is NOT a political post for you morons waiting to rate me up or down based on your personal opinions. This is about the human race wasting its goddamn opportunity to exist longer than the dang dinosaurs.
SHIIIIT son, dont tell me that even if HALF of the worlds defense monies were spent on creating a renewable energy based transportation system we'd still be driving gasoline cars.




RE: Unfortunate situation
By crystal clear on 8/8/2009 8:29:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
its good that the israelis have proven themselves to be technologically capable. its SAD though that so much of the mind power will be devoted to killing machines


Just to update you on the real facts-

All major hitech companies from Intel/microsoft/IBM/HP/Gogle & many more have their R&D centres in Israel.

Their contribution in R&D to these companies is immense & crucial, but rarely noticed by the majority in the world.

These companies above rarely publicize about the work done here as its higly confidential (new products).

So majority of the Israeli engineers/technocrats are working in NON defence related R&D.

Those involved in defence related R&D are a small percentage of the R&D pool/talent available.

Strange but true most of the defence related R&D work is outsourced by major American companies to the Israelis-you will never read about this,its top secret.

Even the USA (govt) has many (defence related) joint projects in R&D with the Israelis,most of them not publicized due to the secrecy involved in these type of projects,the few publicized are like the ARROW anti missile systems.

Venture capital is available in plenty just waiting for a startup (company) to come up with a product idea/services.

Companies like Intel/Microsoft/IBM/Google regularly buy up these companies,besides/in addition heavily investing as venture capitalist themselves.

Intel by the way is building onr more fab in Kiryat Gat-not yet publicized, this in addition to the existing facilities spread all over Israel.

Its only those killing machines like you call it get the publicity by the press,whilst the rest is ignored.
When in fact the rest(non defence related) is 90% or more of all the R&D work done.

The Israeli contribution to agriculture/solar technology is immense & very crucial.

The other areas being medical/pharmacutical/water/etc

Research institutions like the Weizman Institue/Technion/Israeli universities are all busy doing crucial ground breaking (non defence related0 R&D work thats very rarely publicized as made in Israel

This is NOT a promotion neither promoting the other unknown side of Israel, but some simple facts worth the note.

Its the press/journalist that looks to "up their ratings" that focuses/dramtize only on wars/killings/middle east politics,& thats what you hear all the time.

If you have heard the term cheque book journalism thats what ARAB oil money does/influences to the press/jounalist & their reporting.

Very few companies are willing to disclose their Israeli connections, out of fear of ARAB boycott backed by huge oil revenues.

So keeping out the politics of the region with emphasis on R&D without the promotional aspects of it, hope you get a crystal clear image of Israel.


RE: Unfortunate situation
By andrinoaa on 8/8/2009 11:14:03 PM , Rating: 2
One has to be in denial to disregard any injustice metted out to the palestinians by israel. ( you really have to be blind not to see it). As for this amazing weapon, would it have been better to use the money to generate peace than weapons to "control" the other side? Or is this a universal plot to create jobs?


RE: Unfortunate situation
By zaki on 8/11/2009 11:37:25 AM , Rating: 1
yeah that was sort of my point, It is BECAUSE i know of the extent of Israeli contributions to science that it saddens me that even a minority of the scientific brain power is being devoted to stupid things like weapons.
I have myself used scientific work from Israel in my research work.


Need lasers
By nafhan on 8/7/2009 12:44:57 PM , Rating: 2
We need to hurry up and field those laser weapons...




RE: Need lasers
By AssBall on 8/7/2009 1:39:58 PM , Rating: 2
We can make those heat ray crowd dispersers they can mount on a hum vee, so we are getting close!


By crystal clear on 8/8/2009 2:26:22 AM , Rating: 2
The article is of a promotional nature,the type you would recieve/read at some famous armament exhibition/show like the Paris Air show.

Experience has repeatedly shown in the past & even today in Afganistan,you cannot fight a conventional war against terrorist & guerilla warfare.

The Russian conducted a long brutal war in Afganistan & failed they withdrew with very high casualties & a loss of prestige.

U.K. is just desperate to get out of Afganistan as fast as possible due the regular/steady in flow of coffins of dead soldiers from Afganistan.

The USA/UK saw & see it in Afganistan,the Israelis saw in it Lebonnen.

The technology that this article promotes may be good in conventional warfare but useless against a car packed with explosives that is detonated by a cell phone.

The impact of this explosion is just devastating & horrific, example the explosion that killed the president of Lebonen a few years ago.

The Israelis saw it in Lebonen when their tanks/APCs were destroyed killing the soldiers inside,by cars packed with explosives parked on the roadside that exploded detonated by cell phones.

Yes the Israelis can sell it to India !

India has a huge defence budget with little or no recession & desperate to upgrade their outdated weoponary from the Soviet junk that they bought many years ago.

Courtesy of the USA/UK embargo India bought millions of dollars of JUNK from the soviets.

Even NOW U.S. defence companies cannot SELL to India neither planes/tanks/or anything else.

Thanks to the embargo Israel beomes the No.1 supplier to India for all their defence requirements.

As for the USA they will NOT buy as the pentagon prefers local suppliers & the congressman/senator also prefer local suppliers.

The senators/congressmen are more concerned with their political careers prefer to prevent job losses & increase job creation,plus the last but not the least their election funding that these defence companies provide.

They pass (very easily) multi billion dollar defence aid packages to Israel so that the Israel will buy defence related products made in the USA.

The manufacturers of these products also want it that way,not only for revenues but they use Israel as real time testing ground (actual warefare) to test their hardware & further develop it plus promote its sales.

The pentagon does NOT like the fact the Israelis do their R&D, & do their best to block them when they sell to any other country.

To cut it short, its politics all the way mixed with jealousy/rivalary all the way.




Sticky bomb
By HenryOG on 8/8/2009 11:02:24 AM , Rating: 2
Have you people seen the sticky bomb. The warrior known as Hanks,Tom showed it was very effective against the dreaded Tiger Tank of the deadly expantionist Wehrmacht from the Imperialist Socialt Hitler regime.




By foolsgambit11 on 8/10/2009 5:02:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The system is designed to have a very small kill zone, so as not to endanger troops adjacent to the protected vehicle.
So, picture the situation: Tank with supporting infantry soldiers nearby. A missile is fired at the tank. The tank identifies the missile and its trajectory toward the tank. It fires the bird-shot, being careful not to hit the nearby troops. The missile explodes before hitting the tank, killing many of the nearby troops.

Am I misunderstanding how this works?




Rabble rabble rabble!
By ianken on 8/11/2009 3:40:13 AM , Rating: 2
Meanwhile the Pentagon continues to shovel money over to (I think) the Rand Corporation to re-invent this very technology for use on American armor.

Yay, pentagon, you retards.




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