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But Lenovo fears customers just don't want cheaper ARM products

Lenovo this week announced the availability of a "Yoga" convertible laptop with Intel Corp. (INTC), dealing another blow to the embattled Windows RT.

Sales of Windows RT hybrids/tablets/laptops have quite simply stunk.  In Q1 2013, only a meager 200,000 of the devices made their way into consumer hands.  OEMs like Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930), The Lenovo Group, Ltd. (HKG:0992), Dell Inc. (DELL), and Acer Inc. (TPE:2357) -- have attacked the OS [1][2][3][4] blame poor legacy software support and poor marketing by Microsoft.

The Lenovo case is a particularly interesting one.  Early on the Chinese OEM was bullish on Windows on ARM (WOA), showing off the NVIDIA Corp. (NVDA) Tegra 3-based IdeaPad Yoga 11 and complaining that Intel-based devices would be up to $300 USD more expensive.  But of late it's complained that business don't want Windows RT tablets/convertibles due to legacy compatibility concerns.

It appears Lenovo right on both counts -- Intel continues to struggle with price points, but customers still prefer its products (perhaps that's part of why PC sales saw their biggest percentage drop in history last quarter).

Lenovo this week announced an Intel-powered version of the 11.6-inch convertible/hybrid laptop-cum-tablet Yoga.  The Intel Yoga is at least $240 USD more than the Tegra 3-based Yoga, which currently retails for around $560 USD.

With identical screen, form-factor, and body design to the ARM-based Yoga, the new Intel-based Yoga merely varies in OS version and the driving CPU chip.


The entry-level Windows 8 Core i3-3229Y (Ivy Bridge) dual-core model starts at $800 USD; a high-end Core i7-3689Y (dual-core) will fetch $1,349.99 USD (and also come with an upgrade to Windows 8 Pro).  Both 4 GB and 8 GB DRAM options, as well as 128 GB and 256 GB SSD storage options are available.  There's no discrete graphics -- the relatively "low resolution" 1,366x768 11.6-in. LED backlit screen is driven by the on-die HD 4000.

Even as Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) and company reaffirm their commitments to Windows RT, it appears that Lenovo is moving on, even if its pricing takes a hit.

Source: Lenovo



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No surprise
By BRB29 on 5/17/2013 12:05:27 PM , Rating: 1
Android = free
win8 = expensive

ARM = cheap
Intel = expensive




RE: No surprise
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 12:08:56 PM , Rating: 5
But... The ability to run x86 apps to do actual work: Priceless.

I love my mobile toys as much as the next guy, but I know they are just "toys". To get any real work done in most any company in the world, its x86 or nothing.


RE: No surprise
By BRB29 on 5/17/2013 12:41:41 PM , Rating: 2
lol yep still a toy. No point in paying $240 extra for it. Use that money to increase your laptop budget ;)


RE: No surprise
By Ammohunt on 5/17/2013 1:14:05 PM , Rating: 1
Funny I do my "real" work on Linux daily. I can give a rats ass what CPU Architecture drives it.


RE: No surprise
By BRB29 on 5/17/2013 1:37:29 PM , Rating: 2
lol there's always one.


RE: No surprise
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 1:48:55 PM , Rating: 3
Great... It works for one guy at one company... Take your Linux box to any other company and see how well it works.

How is that planning, purchasing, inbound logistics, warehousing, shop floor, shipping, accounting, reverse logistics, CRM software etc etc working? Oh, that's right, it doesnt exist on anything but Windows x86 with few exceptions. .


RE: No surprise
By Ammohunt on 5/17/13, Rating: 0
RE: No surprise
By BRB29 on 5/17/2013 2:50:23 PM , Rating: 3
Yes. The vast majority of the labor force does not use Linux. Our jobs requires computers to work. It is not to work on computers.

Good job, you're in IT. You can think you're smarter than everyone else. Everyone thinks you're just support when their machine doesn't work. Don't be so arrogant.


RE: No surprise
By Ammohunt on 5/17/2013 6:12:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good job, you're in IT. You can think you're smarter than everyone else. Everyone thinks you're just support when their machine doesn't work. Don't be so arrogant.


Didn't mean to come off arrogant its a sommon problem in IT circles that I don't have. That being said I am considered an expert in my field and frankly dumbfound by some of the statements on this particular thread. Linux does real work everyday I know because I am the guy that helps put it to work.


RE: No surprise
By ebakke on 5/18/2013 10:40:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't be so arrogant.
Do you fancy yourself the pot, or the kettle?

I think you'd be absolutely astonished to know how many computers run Linux every day and how many people use those for productive use.


RE: No surprise
By maugrimtr on 5/20/2013 9:22:01 AM , Rating: 2
I do office work (which I wish would go away so I can focus on my real work in development) on a Ubuntu PC...billing, invoicing, time recording, etc. I fear that legacy when it comes to x86 Windows tends towards "OMG, it doesn't have Internet Explorer 6 - out internal apps will break!".

Our CRM, etc and several other business services run from a browser instance using Java. They look, feel and perform like something cranky and really old.

Works fine on Linux if updated correctly (i.e. blame your own company's IT dept. if it won't work outside of XP/Vista/IE6). You really should be up as far as IE10 compatibility on Windows 7 by now.


RE: No surprise
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 3:41:21 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I do and have for many years.. But let me entertain your assertion. Please, give me the name of any planning, purchasing, inbound logistics, warehousing, shop floor, shipping, accounting, reverse logistics, CRM software running on Linux... Or are you just remoting into a Windows x86 machine that is running those apps? In which case, you arent doing it on Linux, you are doing on the x86 host.


RE: No surprise
By Ammohunt on 5/17/2013 6:06:28 PM , Rating: 2
You aren't being serious are you? Know what SAP is? Oracle Fusion apps?(these are just the obvious big ones there is a plethora of smaller vendors closed and open source) All deployable on Linux and the platform of choice more often than not. I am not anti-windows by any streach since I have architected and manged computing environment's on all different types of platforms including Windows. To say that windows x86 is the do all and be all is just plain ignorant..sorry.


RE: No surprise
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 7:25:58 PM , Rating: 3
"Know what SAP is? Oracle Fusion apps?"

YEs I do and I have worked with both and many other non-x86 systems - Sparc, Solaris, Unix, etc etc... I didn't say x86 was the "do all and be all", and I said there were exceptions. The point I am making is almost every company runs off x86 in some way or another, and the vast majority of them are running mostly off x86. Most servers are x86, most companies are running MS exchange for their email and most business apps run x86 software and the vast majority of workers are sitting in front of x86 Windows computers every day. Pointing out exceptions doesn't make any of that untrue.


RE: No surprise
By Ammohunt on 5/17/2013 2:30:26 PM , Rating: 1
Oh and by the way there are other achitectures that do a little bit of work in the areas you listed that are not x86 like IBM Power and Sparc oh and they don't run Windows but funny enough they run Linux!


RE: No surprise
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 3:42:55 PM , Rating: 2
" a little bi t of work in the areas "

Exactly. Even at that, most users are still interfacing with it via thier x86 system.


RE: No surprise
By Ammohunt on 5/17/2013 6:19:38 PM , Rating: 3
It depends on the application the trend is towards browser based applications which makes the platform that runs the browser unimportant.


RE: No surprise
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 7:20:37 PM , Rating: 2
Yup.. A few here and there are browser based, and there are other exceptions as well, but the point is the vast majority of the business world runs off Winx86... for example every factory that makes every Mac, iPhone and iPad - all off PC's, and PC based x86 software.


RE: No surprise
By Silma on 5/17/2013 1:02:15 PM , Rating: 3
Android = 1 / 500th capabilities of Windows with 1/1'000'000 peripherals support
ARM = 1/10th the speed of core i3

Android tablets are just glorified webbrowsers


RE: No surprise
By BRB29 on 5/17/2013 1:36:14 PM , Rating: 2
those are some bold claims


RE: No surprise
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 1:50:22 PM , Rating: 3
"Android tablets are just glorified webbrowsers"

Any non x86 tablet fits that same bill including WinRT tablets.


1,366x768 screen
By MZperX on 5/17/2013 11:51:20 AM , Rating: 5
When I see that spec for a laptop or notebook it goes on immediate "ignore"... Next please!




RE: 1,366x768 screen
By retrospooty on 5/17/2013 12:10:02 PM , Rating: 2
Yup... Not even on a small 11.6 inch screen. Never, ever, ever again. Retire those god damn #'s OEM's.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By Mint on 5/18/2013 10:31:05 AM , Rating: 2
What sucks is that all over the web are reports that there would be a 1600x900 option.

Looks like Lenovo removed it due to lack of demand. I really think it's the market more so than the OEMs who are responsible. Some people just don't think a price premium is worth it when many apps become difficult to use at high resolution.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By retrospooty on 5/18/2013 3:04:57 PM , Rating: 1
Yup... the same shitheads that shoved 16x9 on us in the first place. That is half the problem right there. I can't get accepting 768 pixels high as viable. We had that 20 freegin years ago. Today's 5 inch cell phones have better res FFS


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 5/17/2013 12:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, 768p on an 11.6" display is the perfect compromise between pixel density and usability of desktop programs without having to resort to Microsoft's buggy scaling.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By inighthawki on 5/17/2013 1:37:42 PM , Rating: 2
The "bugginess" in the scaling isn't really Microsoft's fault, it's the fault of the application that is not high DPI aware.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 5/17/2013 2:23:07 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, I think Microsoft deserves a fair share of the blame. Nevertheless, the 135ppi of a 11.6" 768p screen or the 131ppi of a 14.0" 900p screen is a pretty good compromise between sharpness and usability in the traditional Windows desktop environment.

Don't get me wrong, 1366x768 on a 15.6" laptop is a travesty. I'm just saying, unless you never plan to leave "Metro", there are good reasons to use it on 11.6" Windows laptops.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By inighthawki on 5/18/2013 1:43:57 AM , Rating: 2
Which part of Microsoft's DPI scaling is the issue that you have?


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By Gurthang on 5/20/2013 9:11:20 AM , Rating: 2
While I am sure some blame could be applied to them (MS). It has been may experience that it is the fault of the developer of the application that never tested or thought about someone using their app beyond the screen size that have on their development box or lab. I mean back in the day with VB6 with the default tools scaling things could be a PITA. But it is pure lazyness to not set-up your forms in .NET with containers and elements that auto-size correctly... Sure you can still create crappy non-scaling forms but thats you being lazy and not the OS or the tools.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By ERROR666 on 5/17/2013 3:40:01 PM , Rating: 2
hmmm. I'm using it on my 14 inch laptop. It has higher resolution but for me it's just easier to see small text. Matter of choice I guess.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By InsGadget on 5/18/2013 12:59:36 PM , Rating: 2
Having tried to use a Surface Pro with its 1920x1080 resolution, I can honestly say I prefer a lower res for smaller screens on Windows. And no, it's not because I'm old and forgot my glasses (I'm 31, not farsighted by any means). Going higher just forces you to scale the UI, which brings its own problems. 1600x900 is the highest I would want to go on a 13 inch, and on an 11 or 12 inch screen, 1366x768 is about ideal.

But don't let me disturb your resolution snobbery meeting.


RE: 1,366x768 screen
By retrospooty on 5/18/2013 3:00:49 PM , Rating: 2
If you are OK with it that is fine, get it. Some of us want better and would never consider this res. Just because Windows scales poorly is not an excuse for a lousy screen to me.


The price isn't that bad
By flyingpants1 on 5/18/2013 5:59:49 PM , Rating: 2
I like it, but it's not for me.

Everyone should remember that iPads are $699 for the 64GB version.

If there were an Atom-based Win8 Yoga 11 64GB for $549, I'd buy it immediately. I prefer the integrated keyboard over a detachable one.




RE: The price isn't that bad
By fteoath64 on 5/19/2013 7:14:48 AM , Rating: 2
The choice should be :
iPad4 64GB $649 or Surface RT 32GB $499 or Nexus 10 $399.

The next wave of new generation tablets featuring Tegra4, Tegra 4i, Snadragon S800 chips should be out soon. The ones with RT ought to be rather fast if the designers bother to put sata SSD into these devices to "uncripple" them!. eMMC cards are plainly too slow for such powerful processors.


RE: The price isn't that bad
By flyingpants1 on 5/20/2013 3:56:33 AM , Rating: 2
Well.. No, because all of those are useless. This article is about an x86 convertible Yoga 11 with a Core i3+. The Asus VivoTab Smart has an Atom/64GB which is already much better than an iPad.


Shame about the pricing structure...
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 5/17/2013 12:35:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The entry-level Windows 8 Core i3-3229Y (Ivy Bridge) dual-core model starts at $800 USD; a high-end Core i7-3689Y (dual-core) will fetch $1,349.99 USD (and also come with an upgrade to Windows 8 Pro).


Yeah, this is the unfortunate thing. If you want or need the Pro features, you can't spend less than $1350. That's a hard pill to swallow...




By Kyuu on 5/18/2013 12:45:09 AM , Rating: 2
Pretty sure you can upgrade the Win8 license that comes with the laptop to Pro. Or if not, you could buy one separately and install it.


Haswell cometh
By BillyBatson on 5/17/2013 4:52:49 PM , Rating: 3
I will be waiting for haswell versions of these PC tablets before I choose one but the Yoga is on the list




By ilt24 on 5/17/2013 8:12:46 PM , Rating: 2
When the original Tegra 3 based Yoga 11 came out, it's MSRP was $799, now according to the Lenvo site, you can buy one for $300 off.

They just announced the Intel version, if you want one today you will pay full price, wait a few months and it will cost less.




A New Battlefront
By tat tvam asi on 5/17/2013 11:42:54 AM , Rating: 1
[ARM+RT] versus [x86+W8]




"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates














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