backtop


Print 42 comment(s) - last by aqwan135.. on Dec 20 at 8:07 PM

"FTC’s case is misguided" says Intel

The United States Federal Trade Commission filed a lawsuit today against Intel Corporation, currently the world’s largest semiconductor company. The FTC is charging that Intel has illegally used its dominant market position for over a decade to stifle competition and strengthen its monopoly.

The FTC alleges that Intel has waged a systematic campaign to shut out competing microchips made by other companies (such as Advanced Micro Devices) by using threats and rewards aimed at the world’s largest computer manufacturers, namely Dell, Hewlett-Packard, and IBM.

Similar charges were filed by the European Commission resulting in a $1.45 billion USD fine. In order to head off similar fines from other jurisdictions, Intel settled all antitrust and intellectual property issues with AMD. Intel had threatened to shut down AMD's CPU production, a move that in hindsight seems to have backfired. The company paid AMD $1.25 billion for it to drop all of its complaints, with the hope that it would prevail in the appeals process and that the FTC would not pursue charges without its star witness. Those hopes now appear to be dashed.

Additionally, the FTC says that Intel secretly redesigned its software compiler in order to degrade the performance of non-Intel CPUs. Intel then told its customers and consumers that software performed better on Intel CPUs.The FTC is adamant that Intel deceived them by failing to disclose that these differences were due largely or entirely to Intel’s compiler design.

Intel also has the largest marketshare in graphics, thanks to its integrated chipsets. The FTC is concerned that the company may try to use the same tactics in the graphics market by "smothering potential competition from GPU chips such as those made by NVIDIA". Development on Intel chipsets by NVIDIA has already been halted due to licensing disputes.

The FTC also alleges that, "As part of this latest campaign [into the GPU market], Intel misled and deceived potential competitors in order to protect its monopoly". This could refer to Intel's Larrabee project, which was recently cancelled despite positive updates from Intel over the last year.

Intel has responded to the FTC lawsuit by issuing the following statement, “Intel has competed fairly and lawfully. Its actions have benefitted consumers. The highly competitive microprocessor industry, of which Intel is a key part, has kept innovation robust and prices declining at a faster rate than any other industry. The FTC’s case is misguided. It is based largely on claims that the FTC added at the last minute and has not investigated. In addition, it is explicitly not based on existing law but is instead intended to make new rules for regulating business conduct. These new rules would harm consumers by reducing innovation and raising prices.”

Intel's Senior Vice President and General Counsel Doug Melamed added, “This case could have, and should have, been settled. Settlement talks had progressed very far but stalled when the FTC insisted on unprecedented remedies – including the restrictions on lawful price competition and enforcement of intellectual property rights set forth in the complaint -- that would make it impossible for Intel to conduct business.”

“The FTC’s rush to file this case will cost taxpayers tens of millions of dollars to litigate issues that the FTC has not fully investigated. It is the normal practice of antitrust enforcement agencies to investigate the facts before filing suit. The Commission did not do that in this case,” stated Melamed.

The case is tentatively scheduled to be heard before an Administrative Law Judge at 10:00 a.m. on September 15, 2010. A FTC decision will be issued within twenty months, substantially faster than usual in federal court antitrust litigation.



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

LOL
By BZDTemp on 12/16/2009 12:43:20 PM , Rating: 3
From past experience I'd say the comments here will claim the EU is behind this!

I think it is time people here realize the EU is not after the money of US companies but only about making the firms behave to the benefit of consumers.




RE: LOL
By wiz220 on 12/16/2009 12:49:11 PM , Rating: 4
In many cases like the EU case against MS and forcing it to include other browsers in the install process I am absolutely against the EU.

However, the case against Intel in this situation looks to be substantial and necessary. The EU laid out a good case against Intel when it came to AMD and I'm glad that the FTC is following up here in the US.


RE: LOL
By Mitch101 on 12/17/2009 9:42:10 AM , Rating: 2
Next Canada will be saying send them some of that Internet money? ;)

Totally agree with you wiz220. The Case against Microsoft was like saying every 12 pack of Coke needs to contain a Pepsi, Jolt, and RC cola and consumers can choose if they want to drink them.

As for Intel. Intel lost the EU case, Settled with AMD for anti-competitive practices, Lost e-mail which would lead to fines in any case. This was a given that the FTC would look into this. If they didn't then people would say they weren't doing their job or turning a blind eye to the issue.


RE: LOL
By Regs on 12/17/2009 10:37:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Totally agree with you wiz220. The Case against Microsoft was like saying every 12 pack of Coke needs to contain a Pepsi, Jolt, and RC cola and consumers can choose if they want to drink them.


How does an OS compare to a single piece of software like a web browser? There is two completely different types of utility there. I'm not saying the judgment against MS or scrutiny against them is more fair saying so, but that comparison if a little feeble. It would be more accurate saying coke is not only a competitor to RC and Jolt, but also the distributor of Jolt and RC and they get to decide how they are offered tot he public.


RE: LOL
By Termineater on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: LOL
By dagamer34 on 12/16/2009 1:11:36 PM , Rating: 5
At AMD's expense. Mind you, AMD had the better product for a LONG time, and yet it didn't get substantial market penetration (heck, the #1 computer maker refused to use their products). Want to know why? Kickbacks! Shady marketing deals! Chipset bundling!

It's important to realize that Intel has enough of the x86 CPU market wrapped around it's finger that it easily falls into the category of "potential monopolistic practices" that a smaller company could get away with, but one like Intel cannot. And then it started to use it's power in the CPU market to get into the GPU market as well, locking out nVidia (who really wants to be forced to have multiple GPUs in a laptop?)

It'll be interesting to see where this goes, but I don't see this ending well for Intel. And considering they felt it was in their best interests to pay AMD to drop their lawsuit, obviously something foul went on. You don't just give your rival money for no good reason.


RE: LOL
By bhieb on 12/16/2009 1:30:09 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
And considering they felt it was in their best interests to pay AMD to drop their lawsuit, obviously something foul went on. You don't just give your rival money for no good reason.


Ding we have a winner. Intel is guilty as sin and they know it. It is easy for us to all play armchair lawyer/economist, and say it is just the fair market. But if Intel were not grossly caught red-handed they would not have settled with AMD. You just don't do that in business unless your almost certain to loose (maybe a few million to avoid the court costs, but not a billion).

There is far more evidence against Intel than the public/press knows about.


RE: LOL
By SPOOFE on 12/16/2009 2:46:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
But if Intel were not grossly caught red-handed they would not have settled with AMD.

If Intel were grossly caught red-handed this wouldn't have been dragging on for years and years and years. There are many reasons to settle out of court; court fees, for instance, on a case that can go for a decade or more, can easily grow larger than the settlement.

quote:
You just don't do that in business unless your almost certain to loose (maybe a few million to avoid the court costs, but not a billion).

That doesn't make any sense. If settling out of court were an admission of guilt, then settling for a PENNY would be likewise.

These are massive companies with billions of dollars in assets, revenue, liabilities, etc. The settlement with AMD, or its amount, means nothing to the FTC's case.


RE: LOL
By bhieb on 12/16/2009 3:45:23 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
n May 2009 the European Union's antitrust regulators fined the chipmaker $1.45B USD -- about a fourth of the company's 2008 net income ($5.292B USD)

There are reasons to settle, and like I said Millions maybe. But $1.2 billion is pretty damn close to 25% of their 2008 net income. My point was you don't settle THAT big unless your opponent has more on you that your letting on publicly.

Sure a settlement is not an admission of guilt, but it is not a denial either. All I am saying is that beind closed doors the FTC, EU, and AMD had some pretty hard evidence or Intel would not have settled so large.

quote:
These are massive companies with billions of dollars in assets, revenue, liabilities, etc. The settlement with AMD, or its amount, means nothing to the FTC's case.

That is kind of my point it was a huge settlement that did not even provide them amnesty from an FTC case. I could understand that kind of payout if it would also prevent the FTC from coming after them, but it won't.


RE: LOL
By SPOOFE on 12/16/2009 2:47:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You don't just give your rival money for no good reason.

And you lack imagination if you think seeking to end a long, distracting, and potentially much more costly trial is "no good reason".


RE: LOL
By formulav8 on 12/16/2009 4:31:31 PM , Rating: 5
I don't know what it is but for some reason you keep defending a crooked corp like Intel when evidence shows they were in shady dealings, especially with Dell.

I remember when Anand was talking about Intels shady practices and mobo companies literally telling him that Intel has put major pressure on them NOT to support AMD's Athlon CPU's.

Even Asus would NOT mark their mobo's for the Athlon because of fearing Intel. The boxes were actually plain white with Asus nothing on them.

To much evidence to show Intels business trash to think that its just that the 'world is out to get them'. There is a reason for the laws the gov has against companies who do this crap.

Even though i've been a Intel stock holder for years now, they need to get fried if they are found guilty. I have and will Always put ethics above money, unlike many people/companys this day.

Also like Intel is going to come out and say "Yes, we purposely tried to kill a competitor because they threatened to take our money"

Come on, use common sense. The EU, Japan, and US had/has suites against Intel. You honestly think that is a conspiracy? Use common sense. They would Not be in this situation if they had been doing lawful and fair business practices....

Jason


RE: LOL
By rudy on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: LOL
By rudy on 12/16/2009 3:22:55 PM , Rating: 2
I also want to say its rediculous to go after them after the fact the damage has already been done. Take a lesson and focus on the problem ahead of time. We all know Intel is screwing nVidia over on chipsets so get in there and stop it now before nVidia is permanently damaged.


RE: LOL
By shin0bi272 on 12/17/2009 5:38:59 AM , Rating: 1
You do understand that that's the nature of business... to out price your competitors or seek exclusivity contracts with them to stifle the competition from stealing your revenue... right? the object is to keep your competition to as small of a market share as possible and since Intel had a what 10 year head start in the market for cpus they had pretty much 100% of the desktop market that entire time.

When AMD switched from making printer cpus to x86 cpus the world did not beat a path to their door. That could be because they didnt build a computer to go with it or approach a major manufacturer and show them a speed comparison. But even if they did and that manufacturer had a contract with intel it basically left AMD out in the cold. I mean you dont see too many Cyrix or Via chips in desktops but IBM and Via arent suing intel for their business practices its just AMD. They are pissed because they cant turn a bigger profit and they blame Intel for blocking them out of the market that Intel has owned for 20+ years now.

Think about how Intel must feel here. They are doing whatever they can to keep their stockholders and customers happy (profits=more R&D funds=innovation=more profits)... and here comes AMD trying to steal those customers away and crying that Intel isnt playing fair and letting them do it.

Why doesnt AMD start teaming up with Nvidia (or hey they could even make their own motherboards like Intel does :-o ) and put one of their ati video cards in their own system and start selling them prepackaged like IBM used to with their PowerPC systems... Then they would have their own rigs and be able to tweak them for maximum speed and make outrageous claims like they invented the question mark and they made it faster! Then market their own systems instead of spending half their time suing Intel for more of Intel's money so they can stay afloat another year or two.

AMD is like a whiny little brother that wants to play with the big kids then gets hurt and goes crying to mommy and then you get punished because your brother got hurt.


RE: LOL
By HrilL on 12/17/2009 4:25:42 PM , Rating: 1
Your comment really shows how little you really know about the cpu industry. When IBM starting making PCs they wanted two companies that would make chips for them. They pretty much said to Intel if you want this contract then you need to license x86. AMD got that license and starting making Intel clones back in the 8080 and 8888 days. Since you can't copyright a number and there wasn't really any difference from one companies to the others for CPUs. This lead to different naming. Like Pentium and K6-II.

What you seem to miss as well is that AMD had the better CPUs for a long time. Even before the x64 even hit the market. AMD was the first company to break the 1ghz barrier and intel followed up with an under performing P3. AMD then released the Athlon XP CPUs that dominated the early P4. AMD at the time named their cpu's to be the equivalent speed of the intel. Like a Athlon XP 2000+ was on par with 2ghz P4 but was only clocked at 1.67ghz. Check out the old benchmarks. All along AMD couldn't build marketing share because they were essentially locked out of the OEM market. Then AMD comes out with the Athlon 64 that dominated the newer Prescott P4s a year later they had native dual cores and all Intel could do to compete was slap 2 power hungry and extremely hot running P4s on a die. All along AMD could hardly get the bigger OEMs to use their better parts. Intel then finally after being hands down stomped decided to make a new architecture to compete. While all these years went along AMD kept the same market share when they should have been gaining it. Intel comes out with core 2 and takes back the 2% AMD gained and then some. Showing exactly what the market should have done when AMD had the best.

Who's CPUs power the top 7 our of the top 10 super computers? AMD.

Intel could lock AMD out of the market with kickbacks and threats. Intel would tell companies you can buy our CPUs but if you also buy AMD cpu's suddenly they would be a shortage of chipsets and then they couldn't use their Intel CPUs.

Simple point in if Intel had played fairly AMD would have 40% or more of the market at this point would probably still have the best CPU on the market. Being in debt for the life of your company leaves you with very little money for R&D and yet AMD was still able to make a better CPU.


RE: LOL
By Motoman on 12/16/2009 1:29:26 PM , Rating: 5
You still have to behave within the limits of the law while maximizing shareholder value.

It may have been in the best interest of shareholders for Intel to blackmail major PC OEMs into not using AMD CPUs - provided they didn't get caught - but it was still illegal for them to do so.

It would be in the best interest of Intel shareholders to hire mercenaries to burn down all of the fabs that make AMD products. You reckon Intel should have someone do that then? Just think how much Intel stock would go up if AMD could no longer make any products at all!


RE: LOL
By Oregonian2 on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: LOL
By Motoman on 12/16/2009 3:11:11 PM , Rating: 2
...a quick Googling shows that AMD is somewhere ~20% of the market, conservatively speaking. So, at least one in five CPUs sold is AMD.

Does that ~20% "endanger" Intel sales? Probably not. Would the shareholder value of Intel go WAY up if Intel went from ~80% of the market to ~100% of the market overnight? Yup.


RE: LOL
By SPOOFE on 12/16/2009 3:23:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Would the shareholder value of Intel go WAY up if Intel went from ~80% of the market to ~100% of the market overnight? Yup.

I understand your sentiment, and you're right on that, but your specific hypothetical scenario would leave shareholders being very puzzled and confused as to how Intel's biggest rival vanished in a few hours... :D


RE: LOL
By Oregonian2 on 12/16/2009 6:31:48 PM , Rating: 2
My point being that AMD Fab(s), especially during the time where they had the 'best' CPUs were running FAB-limited. IOW they were not making some chips so they could make others. They couldn't make any more than they were. IF they got a big order from Dell or somebody else, they could deliver only by not delivering product to somebody else. IOW any additional sales would not endanger Intel marketshare because AMD would not be able to deliver product. Intel's single big major advantage over AMD is it's huge manufacturing arm that they've invested heavily into, even during market downturns. AMD's advanced CPUs were made by only a single FAB (one in Dresden Germany I think).


RE: LOL
By CyborgTMT on 12/16/2009 9:31:35 PM , Rating: 2
One point you are missing is that these actions by Intel date back to 1999 time frame. Back then one Fab would have been enough to supply 40-50% of the market share. With increased revenue AMD could have invested in more Fabs, like the one now going up in NY. This would have allowed faster switches to smaller nodes and quicker time to market for new cpus. In short, without Intel's interference we would have a much different landscape in the cpu area today with both camps probably having superior products than what they are currently selling.


RE: LOL
By Oregonian2 on 12/19/2009 3:28:32 PM , Rating: 2
Saw an article yesterday. AMD's current share for CPU's is about 11%, Intel around 80%, and "other" getting the rest (probably including non-x86 cpus).

I'd suspect that to be revenue rather than CPU-chip count though.


RE: LOL
By Oregonian2 on 12/19/2009 3:33:02 PM , Rating: 2
P.S. - I think the 20% number is about right for the "PC CPU" market -- just noting that there are a LOT of cpus made that don't go into PC's. :-)


RE: LOL
By BSMonitor on 12/16/2009 3:22:58 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. AMD fanatics always preached about a downfall of Intel.. Switching market share positions was never even logisctically possible for AMD. Fabs are expensive and AMD simply can not supply 40-50% of the market let alone 80%.


RE: LOL
By BZDTemp on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: LOL
By weskurtz0081 on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: LOL
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:40:11 PM , Rating: 2
OMG after 20 articles about this, Daily Tech actually finally posts Intel's point of view !!! Good job Jason Mi - oh wait *looks at author*.. Oh, nvm.


RE: LOL
By LRonaldHubbs on 12/16/2009 8:47:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
From past experience I'd say the comments here will claim the EU is behind this!

It's pretty clear that they are.


RE: LOL
By aqwan135 on 12/20/2009 8:07:29 PM , Rating: 1
http://ta.gg/3yu

fr ee sh i pp ing

(jordan shoes) $32

(air max) $34

+++

wow


Shady compiler
By blowfish on 12/16/2009 1:23:39 PM , Rating: 4
Interesting to hear of Intel re-writing the compiler to favour Intel CPU's. I will follow that story closely in the months to come. I guess everyone just believes that Intel CPU's are plain better clock-for-clock than others due to superior design, but how much of that is caused by this alleged Intel skullduggery?




RE: Shady compiler
By 3minence on 12/16/2009 2:12:01 PM , Rating: 2
Way back during the Athlon 64 (single core) heyday, Anadtech did a comparison between an A64 and a P4 with hyperthreading. In multitasking they said the the P4 was better, but should not have been. They then dug deeper and found that the Windows scheduler was written poorly and therefore gave advantage to the slower but hyperthreaded P4 (Unfortunitly I can't find the original article).

I wonder how much of that was "mistake", and how much was intentional. I often thought Intel and MS cooperated a bit too closely. For instance, remember the 'Vista Capable' logo disaster? MS took a load of crap to help out Intel executives trying to sell low end CPU's. One company doesn't do that for another without reason.

I wonder how well not just apps but windows itself would run on AMD CPU's if it was compiled on a different compiler. Although I don't know, I bet MS uses Intels compiler.

Maybe I'm just seeing the boogeyman in my closet, but maybe I'm not.


RE: Shady compiler
By cfaalm on 12/16/2009 3:40:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
One company doesn't do that for another without reason.


That could be because Intel has a marketshare of roughly 80% which translates into roughly 80% of Windows installs. That isn't necessarily targetted against AMD.


RE: Shady compiler
By Termineater on 12/16/2009 4:58:46 PM , Rating: 2
AMD is free to write its own compiler, optimized for their products. They can even sabotage it so it won't produce code that runs on Intel hardware at all. Likewise, Intel should be under no obligation to ensure its compilers work well, or work at all with products from other companies.


RE: Shady compiler
By AnnihilatorX on 12/16/2009 6:30:42 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think you understand this.

AMD can do what you said, but not a good idea for them if they want to gain market share.

Intel can't, because that's an antitrust violation, by locking out competition.


FTC's complaint is weird
By lecanard on 12/16/2009 12:56:01 PM , Rating: 4
What does the FTC want, for Intel to bash its own products in case they don't work out? Or do they think Intel knew all along that it wasn't going to be released but just pretended it would to hurt its competitors? I must be missing the point here because both of those are ridiculous.




RE: FTC's complaint is weird
By geddarkstorm on 12/16/2009 1:32:09 PM , Rating: 2
Intel has basically killed Nvidia's chipset business. And yes, the guise of Larrabee was an excuse for that, which they then dropped like a stone, but only after strong arming Nvidia out of the picture. So... I think they may have attracted the wrong sort of attention to themselves.


RE: FTC's complaint is weird
By LRonaldHubbs on 12/16/2009 8:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
In what way was Larrabee related to the death of nvidia's chipset business? Larrabee was not dependent upon any particular chipset, and nvidia's SLI is only artificially dependent, so I don't see the connection that you are drawing here. I'm not disputing that Intel was looking for a reason to boot nvidia out of the chipset market. But the reason they used was that nvidia wasn't licensed for QPI, which had nothing to do with Larrabee.


Intel Admited
By Gungel on 12/16/2009 1:34:04 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't Intel basically admit its guilty by paying off AMD?




RE: Intel Admited
By SPOOFE on 12/16/2009 2:43:33 PM , Rating: 4
No, that's not how out of court settlements work. One is considered innocent until proven guilty; if the case is dropped, there's nothing proven. Many companies and individuals settle out of court, for many reasons.


I smell something funny
By zmatt on 12/16/2009 3:46:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The case is tentatively scheduled to be heard before an Administrative Law Judge at 10:00 a.m. on September 15, 2010. A FTC decision will be issued within twenty months, substantially faster than usual in federal court antitrust litigation.


Hmmm, taken with Intel's comments it seems to me as if the FTC wanted to get Intel really badly for whatever reason and is rushing into it.




Crime is highly profitable for InHell
By Beenthere on 12/16/09, Rating: -1
By SPOOFE on 12/16/2009 2:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The concept of crime-for-profit isn't too difficult to comprehend.

Yeah, just look at the Federal Gummint!


"I mean, if you wanna break down someone's door, why don't you start with AT&T, for God sakes? They make your amazing phone unusable as a phone!" -- Jon Stewart on Apple and the iPhone




Latest Headlines
2/10/2012 Daily Hardware Reviews
February 10, 2012, 5:50 PM
2/9/2012 Daily Hardware Reviews
February 9, 2012, 11:54 AM
2/8/2012 Daily Hardware Reviews
February 8, 2012, 1:11 PM
2/7/2012 Daily Hardware Reviews
February 7, 2012, 12:23 PM










botimage
Copyright 2012 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki