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Date was pushed back to allow more time for depositions of witnesses on both sides

Way back in 2005, AMD filed a lawsuit against Intel that alleged that the company abused its market leading position to keep competition out of the marketplace. Part of the AMD allegations claim that Intel offered free products and large discounts to keep computer makers from using AMD processors.

Since the suit was filed in 2005 not much has been done in court other that delay after delay in actually bringing the case to trial. This week, the federal antitrust case against Intel was again postponed from its April 2009 day in court to a new date of February 2010.

EWeek reports that this is the second major delay in the case. The last major delay came in 2007 when Intel announced that it had erased documents and emails relating to the case. Intel maintains that it did not erase any important documents relating to the trial.

DailyTech reported in May 2008 that new documents in the case had been presented to detail AMDs complaints against Intel. At the time it was also reported that documents filed in the case had already exceeded 150 million pages and attorneys for both AMD and Intel still claim to have many more witnesses to depose.

Intel has had an up and down week; on June 5th it was fined $25 million in a South Korean antitrust case that found Intel had provided illegal rebates and discounts to keep computer makers from buying processors from AMD. However, the company drew amazement from many when early Nehalem benchmarks were revealed.

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Terminal Delays
By gmw1082 on 6/6/2008 12:15:48 PM , Rating: 1
With the high performing Nehalem coming soon and AMD having nothing to compete, Intel has formed a good strategy here. Keep delaying the case and hope AMD goes bankrupt before it ever reaches court. Of course AMD going bankrupt would be a sad sad day.




RE: Terminal Delays
By nosfe on 6/6/2008 12:24:08 PM , Rating: 2
yes nehalem is coming but you won't see mainstream nehalem until q3 2009, this is what you get without competition


RE: Terminal Delays
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 6/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: Terminal Delays
By nosfe on 6/6/2008 1:01:30 PM , Rating: 4
Lynnfield - Mainstream desktop - H2 2009
thats what i've been reading around the web lately, you decide if you believe it or not

http://www.hardware-infos.com/img/startseite/intel... (roadmap pic)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28microarchi...


RE: Terminal Delays
By lifeblood on 6/6/2008 1:20:47 PM , Rating: 2
According to your wikipedia link, Bloomfield is a desktop part. That comes in Q4 08, or am I reading that wrong?


RE: Terminal Delays
By nosfe on 6/6/2008 1:26:52 PM , Rating: 1
no you didn't, so far Bloomfield is coming this year, but its a "performance desktop" part, i was talking about mainstream, i don't have the money for those kind of processors so they don't interest me :P


RE: Terminal Delays
By Viditor on 6/6/2008 1:30:09 PM , Rating: 2
The Extreme desktop parts should be out for Xmas, but they are on a different socket than the normal desktop chips.
The rest of the desktops start coming out sporadically in Q1 09, though the majority are still slated for mid to late 09.


RE: Terminal Delays
By NullSubroutine on 6/6/2008 1:44:55 PM , Rating: 3
No it won't it will be available in limited supplies for High-End Server and Enthusiast markets. You can see that amount Intel plans to ship based on [b]INTELS[/b] own documents.

Now who is spreading FUD?


RE: Terminal Delays
By Adnoctum on 6/6/2008 4:16:57 PM , Rating: 3
Wow.

For someone who goes on and on (and on, Ad infinitum) about how much he knows about all things technological/environmental/political/...(who am I kidding, EVERYTHING, am I right?), you seem to have a poor grasp of the Intel CPU roadmap.

Here's a few hints that you may find useful in leading a better DailyTech life:

1) The definition of "Mainstream" doesn't include server or workstation parts. Maybe in your parallel universe, but not this one.

2) Use your brain for more than a paper weight BEFORE abusing people for their thoughts and knowledge. Take more than a second to consider what they said and ask yourself "Are they right?", then reply, not with anger and abuse but a well thought out and reasoned reply. Befuddle them with your mighty arguments, not with your venom and spite. Remember to be a good Dailytech citizen: Bile is meant for livers, not comments.

3) You might ponder the point that perhaps you aren't the "Font Of All Knowledge", and that others may have a better grasp of the situation than yourself. You may come to realise that this egocentric mindset of yours is not a healthy way in which to live. Open your mind to the possibilty that there might be questions for which you have no answers. For instance, "When will Nehelem be coming to the desktop?" This is clearly a question you cannot answer.

4) Anger is the enemy of rational thought. From a casual observation you appear to frustrate easily with the idiots who confront you on a daily basis. And when these idiots refuse to be educated by a superior intellect, such as yourself, this frustration clearly leads to anger. Studies have show that such anger control problems can lead to physical and psychological stress, not to mention the strain it places on the relationships you have with those around you. Perhaps a way to relieve the anger you feel is to expend it on an inanimate object.
If you are already following this advice and the inanimate object you are using is your computer keyboard, and hence your comment above and every other comment you have ever written on DailyTech, might I suggest you use something else such as a pillow or Jack Thompson.

5) Dealing with fools is trying at the best of times, but it is even more so when their fool comments seem to beset you on every page you view. The desire to set them right can at times be overwhelming, but it does nothing to help you lead a harmonious life.
Sometimes you just have to shake your head and endulge them their foolish fantasies, they are but children and should be treated as such. Do you yell and curse when a child speaks of fairies under their bed and ghosts in their cupboard? No, you understand that children need their imaginative worlds, it is what makes them children. Their suggestability makes them vulnerable to both the real and the imagined and they need the comfort and security that adults like yourself can give to them. You can be an adult here at DailyTech.

I hope you takes these hints in the friendly manner in which they were intended. My goal was not to embarrass, but to inform and help. I feel concern for all my fellow mankind, and it hurts me to see a man such as yourself straining under the weight of his massive intellect.

Please pass on these useful hints to Masher, as he too seems to suffer from the same sad afflictions as yourself. Perhaps the two of you could come together and form a Dailytech help group, and you can support each other every day in your interactions with us know-nothing idiots.

With kind regards, Adnoctum.


RE: Terminal Delays
By thetinyclam on 6/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: Terminal Delays
By Adnoctum on 6/7/2008 3:58:17 AM , Rating: 3
Hello Tiny Clam!

I understand exactly where you are coming from, and do not worry, I have not taken offence. Sadly I am not partial to pickles, sour or otherwise.

I graze over many technology sites, and for the most part I am a lurker and not a commenter. I have lurked here at DailyTech for many years.

It is MY opinion that SOME of the bloggers here are overly aggressive and abusive when it comes to dissenting opinions. I agree that they are allowed their opinions as well as their right to express them, but their position with their little "DT Blog" tags gives them a sense of authority on DailyTech whether it is real or imagined (the latter I think). I wish that sometimes they would be the bigger people and lead the healthy discussions here by example.

"Master Kenobi" could have been the adult, behaved in a reasonable manner and informed "Nosfe" that he was wrong and that Nehelem would be out this year. It wouldn't have mattered that he was wrong himself. But he chose abuse and started to throw some FUD around of his own. As "an avid DT reader" you must know that FUD is the enemy of the technology enthusiast.

Familiar patterns emerge here when the discussion turns to politics, the economy, and the environment ("Climate Change: Yay or Nay?"). Yelling and abuse is rife, and it is closed minds all around. Group moderation seems to have little effect.

As seen from the outside observer (I don't participate much remember), it seems to be where there is an Internet forum there is a pointless argument waiting to happen. What is it about the Internet that we lose all ability to behave in a reasonable manner? As a member of this current generation, what is the difficulty we seem to have with manners? Is rudeness a course you can take online? Is it compulsory to sign up? Given my own comments, I seem to have a natural ability of my own!

Just out of interest, what do "fat chicks" do at restaurants? That point missed me altogether. Do you have much experience of "fat chick" behaviour?

Thank-you for your link. Although the rants seem to be of little interest to me, I will keep it in mind for any future discussions I have here at DailyTech.
What do you suggest? Should I link from the comments here to my "rant" there, or should I hope that DailyTech readers of the relevant discussion just happen across them, probably through some form ESP or shared consciousness?
I don't live in the SF area, does that matter? In fact, I don't live in the United States, do you think Craigs List has an international rant section?

Yours with much affection (but none of it gay, so don't fly into a homophobic rage and beat me to death), Adnoctum.


RE: Terminal Delays
By 325hhee on 6/6/2008 12:38:52 PM , Rating: 2
Funny that Intel keeps losing documents... I say just take them to court even if they don't have their documents, just shows how shady Intel really is.

I'm almost to the point that I want to switch over to Intel, but their BS just keeps me from switching over, they have no ethics whatsoever. I'm still using my AMD Black Edition, and was almost tempted to go over to Intel, because yes, their chips are better these days. It's a good thing I keep seeing these to remind myself, if AMD goes out of business, we'd never have dual cores, or quads, we'll still be paying 1k for a CPU, we'll never see 64bit OS, and other stuff that Intel procrastinates on.

Remember the days when Intel said speed is where everything is, and an AMD at 1.4 gig could out perform a 2 gig Intel. Without AMD, we'd be stuck with their BS.

I'm hoping the 4800 will deliver and the Puma with external graphics card capability will push out Intel laptops. AMD needs a boost, this year might bring them back, cross your fingers.


RE: Terminal Delays
By Adonlude on 6/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: Terminal Delays
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/6/2008 5:43:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
By all means keep using your AMD. I hope you only use computers for internet and word processing though. Plan on doing anything CPU worthy then you best buy an Intel part.
That's total and utter bullshit, quit spreading FUD.


RE: Terminal Delays
By amanojaku on 6/6/2008 12:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
Intel definitely abused its position as market leader, but let's be honest and say that AMD f'd up, too. I'm an AMD fanboy and I haven't seen anything worth jumping up and down about in four years. Yeah, the CPUs are about $100 less than Intel's, but so what? $100 is nothing to someone looking to build a box with decent performance that will last a few years.


RE: Terminal Delays
By DASQ on 6/6/2008 1:04:34 PM , Rating: 2
They didn't INTENTIONALLY screw up though.


RE: Terminal Delays
By stryfe on 6/6/2008 5:41:30 PM , Rating: 2
My friend didn't intentionally kill his cat when he stepped on it's back while lay in a pile of laundry. The cat's still dead...


RE: Terminal Delays
By Mitch101 on 6/8/2008 7:48:44 PM , Rating: 2
It might be Nahalem inside parked right next to a pair or Radeon 4870's. But it surely wont be Nehalem inside with onboard intel graphics chips as a gaming rig.


RE: Terminal Delays
By stryfe on 6/10/2008 10:37:39 PM , Rating: 2
Who's post did you think you were replying too????


RE: Terminal Delays
By Viditor on 6/6/2008 1:08:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Intel has formed a good strategy here. Keep delaying the case and hope AMD goes bankrupt before it ever reaches court


Won't help them...the delay in this case helps AMD.

As of today, the USFTC has filed subpoenas on Intel and has put them under investigation for Anti-trust as well.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9961950-37.html

This means that AMD and the FTC can share discovery info, and it vastly increases the pressure on Intel, and probably the settlement amount as well...

The extra year means that both the FTC and AMD will have that much more data.
I personally expect Intel to fold their hand quite soon...


RE: Terminal Delays
By Khato on 6/6/2008 8:14:17 PM , Rating: 3
While I'll agree that it won't help Intel, it won't help AMD either.

See, unlike these 'commissions', AMD has to present its case before an actual court, ya know, an actual impartial ruling. It's a good thing that all the commissions are subject to judiciary review, otherwise their 'findings' would always be in favor of what got them the most 'revenue' from fines and there'd be nothing for companies to do about it. I'll be quite surprised if Intel is found guilty in any of the impartial court appeals that follow the almost certain guilty 'findings' of the biased commissions.


RE: Terminal Delays
By Viditor on 6/7/2008 2:12:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
See, unlike these 'commissions', AMD has to present its case before an actual court, ya know, an actual impartial ruling


Ummm...I don't see your point. Who you present to has no bearing on discovery. The reason that it helps AMD is that they have a right to see what the FTC digs up through the Freedom of Information Act.
In other words, they just received a massive increase in their legal research division at no cost.

The longer they dig and prepare, the easier it is to prove their points. The more instances they can prove, the more damages (and in anti-trust all damages are tripled automatically) they can claim.

In 2005 when the case was first filed, Wells Fargo estimated that AMD would eventually receive ~$4 Billion from this...
With the addition of the FTC's investigative efforts, I would bet that could double.

Then there's the flip side...if the FTC finds actionable grounds, they can turn it over to the DOJ for further proceedings (in Feceral Court). The FTC is allowed to (and already has) file for all of AMD's discovery investigations.

The upshot of all this is that the most likely scenario is for Intel to settle with AMD as quickly as possible. Dragging things out does nothing for them except to keep more people investigating them.
They are almost sure to lose this case...the only question will be for how much. They are already 0 for 2 (JFTC and KFTC) in decisions, and they still have AMD, the USFTC, the state of New York, and the EU Commission left to face. Do they really want to drag it out and face the DOJ and the rest of the State Atty Gen.s as well?


RE: Terminal Delays
By Khato on 6/7/2008 4:47:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Do they really want to drag it out and face the DOJ and the rest of the State Atty Gen.s as well?


Obviously, yes. See, when every action made is carefully weighed and checked, then there really isn't anything to worry about. Far too many like to interpret the legality of actions based upon their own morals and understanding of what happened instead of the letter of the law and the facts (which, of course, has differences everywhere.) There hasn't been an actual judicial ruling against Intel in all of this yet, just a bunch of political parading. (That's discounting the rulings that are allowing AMD access to documents - those are to be expected.)


RE: Terminal Delays
By Viditor on 6/7/2008 8:02:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There hasn't been an actual judicial ruling against Intel in all of this yet


There have been 2 LEGAL rulings which Intel did not feel confident enough to contest, and one judicial ruling (AMD's lawsuit in Japan).


RE: Terminal Delays
By Khato on 6/7/2008 1:57:24 PM , Rating: 3
Oh there have been? Which ones? The Japan Fair Trade Commission ruling where they didn't have enough proof to even attempt a fine, so they just basically said "we think you did this, don't do it again". Intel objected to it, but why exactly would they spend time and money contesting it? Then South Korea, where they are are going to defend themselves... Where are these two uncontested rulings?

As to the judicial ruling in Japan, come on. That one is by -NO- means a ruling against Intel. It's called "hey, we want all the information your fair trade commission gathered and we're legally entitled to", what did you expect the ruling to be? As well, that was what, two and a half years ago? Sure doesn't seem like AMD is making any headway in their court case against Intel there either, bug surprise.


RE: Terminal Delays
By omnicronx on 6/6/2008 2:57:31 PM , Rating: 2
Am I the only one that notices that we have kind of hit the wall in how much power the average user needs? Sure this is going to be the best processor ever, and I will probably buy one, but unless they offer it at a cheap price, even the current conroe will do for 95% of most peoples needs. As long as they can release products that have a good price per performance ratio, AMD will always have a chance against intel.

I really think AMD is on the rebound, especially for HTPC use, their motherboards destroy any Intel offering, and from what I see the HTPC is going be become the next big computer market. They also seem to be rebounding nicely in the video card market, and I expect the next offering to put some pressure back on Nvidia.


RE: Terminal Delays
By Emily on 6/6/2008 4:05:18 PM , Rating: 2
AMD survived for a long time without being a performance leader, so I do not see them disappear in the near future as long as, as you've said, they can maintain a good price to performance ratio. But as to the wall, I am going to have to disagree. People have been saying that the average user do not 'need' so much power for years, yet I doubt any would turn back to what used to be great (but no longer is). But even if we've reached a stage where we have more than enough performance, I am sure we can always benefit from less power hungry components. Which makes me wonder if the Intel Atom is viable for HTPC use.


RE: Terminal Delays
By Ish718 on 6/7/2008 12:48:54 AM , Rating: 2
lol AMD won't die out so easily even though their going through rough times, I'm looking forward to their 45nm denab...


Can we get a link to a larger picture?
By the goat on 6/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: Can we get a link to a larger picture?
By bupkus on 6/6/2008 12:29:09 PM , Rating: 2
that dog is a puppy


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 6/6/2008 12:32:40 PM , Rating: 2
Cats FTW. Dogs are pack hunters. Cats are solo hunters. Cat > Dog 1v1.


RE: Can we get a link to a larger picture?
By phatboye on 6/6/2008 12:47:21 PM , Rating: 2
cats make for horrible pets. Ever try taking a walk with a cat, or having your pet cat fetch something for you. They don't even come when you call them. My sister had pet cats when we were younger and the only time they would come to me is when someone would forget to feed them.

But my dog... a boys best friend.

Now back to the topic at hand Intel v AMD.


By Cheesew1z69 on 6/6/2008 1:02:39 PM , Rating: 3
My cat does play fetch. And one of my other cats does come when you call.


RE: Can we get a link to a larger picture?
By AlexWade on 6/6/2008 2:08:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but cats don't require walking, don't make noise, and don't require a bath. Dogs are great, so long as someone else has them. I guess I'm too lazy for a dog. I love them, but I don't want one.

I actually had a cool cat when I was a kid. It would beat every dog he faced. Many dogs came against him, and all lost. This cat even made one dog scared of all cats. In fact, that dog was never the same after my cat got to her. The stupider dogs would try and try again, only to come away bruised and beat up.


RE: Can we get a link to a larger picture?
By BSMonitor on 6/6/2008 3:44:05 PM , Rating: 2
Are any of you fraking serious? No wonder people hate fanboys. In terms of processors, its not always clear who the winner is...

But for frak's sake. Put a real dog inside a cage with any real house cat, the cat would be lunch eventually.

Dogs are trained to be docile because a dog that is agressive can injure a person. Cats are not trained to be docile because a cat cannot hurt a person. Its cute when the cat goes hunting mice or birds or whatever... A cat's agressive behavior is not trained out of it. But if your dog is out hunting other animals, watch out.. You might find a law suit on your hands when he attacks a kid...

For that reason the dog is trained to submit to everyone, even the cat.

Try not training a dog and see how long the high strung cat lasts against the dog that's not had its agressive behavior removed from its personality....


By SandmanWN on 6/6/2008 5:28:16 PM , Rating: 2
ok any dog of your choosing vs a bengal tiger. ;P

seriously its all relative. like... poodle vs stray cat, house cat vs pit bull.

was that really worth getting worked up over?


By Cheesew1z69 on 6/6/2008 5:49:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Try not training a dog and see how long the high strung cat lasts against the dog that's not had its agressive behavior removed from its personality....
First this isn't Battlestar Galatica, the frak shit is annoying.

Second, most dogs I have owned, I have never once, had to train them to docile.

Third, I don't care how well trained a dog is, any dog, most will still go after a cat...


By JPForums on 6/9/2008 1:32:33 PM , Rating: 2
Knew an outdoor cat that would beat most dogs up. It was domesticated enough as it would come in to eat and get attention and play (beat) the dog. However, he would spend much of his time outdoors and supplement his diet with rabbits and the likes.

I should mention that the dogs he regularly beat up were blue tick hounds about four times his weight. These are hunting dogs, so they are very much real. He even chased off a coyote.

Alas, he met his match in the maw of a brendel boxer.
I must agree with BSMonitor, even extremely rare cats like this will meet their match in some domesticated dog. Though, there are dogs that are simply docile to begin with.

For all those bringing their pet tigers, lions, babcats, etc. to the discussion:
These are by NO means domesticated.


By deeznuts on 6/6/2008 5:04:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Cats FTW. Dogs are pack hunters. Cats are solo hunters. Cat > Dog 1v1.
Methinks you haven't seen a lion hunt ...


By epsilonparadox on 6/6/2008 2:38:51 PM , Rating: 2
I have 2 cats and 2 dogs. My 6 month Pitbull puppy wimpers and hides after my 10-year old completely declawed cat gives him a thumping. Its not the size of the animal but the age that determines the dominating personality.


In Who's Point of View
By othercents on 6/6/2008 12:36:30 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Intel maintains that it did not erase any important documents relating to the trial

Oh Really? So you only erased the unimportant documents that made you look guilty and the important documents that make you look innocent were saved?

Other




nice pic
By cmontyburns on 6/6/2008 11:52:48 AM , Rating: 2
dude...

where did you get that picture from? i cant stop laughing and posted this comment before i could even read the first word in your article.

(my side is sore now.)




RE: nice pic
By jlanders646 on 6/6/2008 11:59:27 AM , Rating: 2
which one is this?
By nosfe on 6/6/2008 12:01:02 PM , Rating: 2
so which lawsuit is this anyway, the one from the US? EU? or some other country because I'm sure that there is more than one




Dickensian, this is
By Captain Ned on 6/6/2008 6:43:31 PM , Rating: 2
Shades of Jarndyce and Jarndyce, I say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarndyce_and_Jarndyce




News update
By crystal clear on 6/7/2008 11:50:45 AM , Rating: 2
In further developments-

WASHINGTON/SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The world's leading semiconductor maker Intel Corp faces a formal investigation by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission after fighting similar antitrust probes in Europe and Asia, the company said on Friday.

Smaller rival Advanced Micro Devices Inc has long accused Intel of abusing its dominance of the $280 billion chip market; it filed suit against Intel in 2005. Intel's microprocessors -- the electronic brains of personal computers -- power more than 80 percent of the world's PCs.

The FTC had been unwilling to go beyond an informal investigation of Intel under its former chairman, Deborah Platt Majoras. She left the agency two months ago and was replaced by another Republican, William Kovacic.

An FTC spokeswoman confirmed that the case has been upgraded to a formal probe but declined to detail the agency's concerns about Intel.

Intel General Counsel Bruce Sewell said the company already has given the FTC hundreds of thousands of documents in the agency's two-year-old informal probe and will continue to cooperate.

"We don't believe that there's been abusive behavior or illegal behavior," he told Reuters in a telephone interview. "The record here is so strong in our favor."

The FTC investigation is a second blow this week for Intel, stock of which was down 76 cents or 3.2 percent at $23.11 in afternoon trading on the Nasdaq. On Thursday, the Korea Fair Trade Commission in Seoul ruled that Intel had abused its dominant position in the local market and imposed a fine of $25.6 million. Intel said it would almost certainly appeal.

One analyst said neither consumers nor personal computer makers were harmed by Intel's dominance in the chip market.



http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUS...




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