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Wintek factory surrounded by what appears to be barbed wire.
Another case of poisoning in Chinese factories

It seems as though Chinese electronics manufacturing contractors are having a few issues lately with poisoning their workers. In April, DailyTech reported on a case involving Samsung workers developing leukemia while working in semiconductor plants.

Today, we're learning that iPhone contractor Wintek is being sued by 44 workers in China over reported poisoning. The workers claim that they were poisoned by n-hexane, a chemical used to clean the LCD screens of Apple's popular iPhone.

The report by Barron's claims that n-hexane is used because it dries faster than alcohol and leaves fewer streaks on the LCD screens. It is alleged that 62 workers have been hospitalized since the summer of 2009 due to exposure to the chemical.

N-hexane can be extremely hazardous to humans. The U.S. Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA) notes that, "n-Hexane is a narcotic agent; an irritant to the eyes, upper respiratory tract, and skin; and a neurotoxin. Exposure of humans to 5,000 ppm n-hexane for 10 minutes causes marked vertigo; exposure to 1,500 ppm results in headache and slight nausea."

When it comes to long-term exposure, OSHA describes the following:

Long-term exposure to n-hexane may cause disturbances in sensation, muscle weakness, and distal symmetric pain in the legs. Clinical changes include muscle atrophy, decreased muscle strength, footdrop, numbness, prickling, and a tingling sensation in the arms and legs. Neurological investigations reveal decreased motor nerve conduction, neurogenic damage and swelling of peripheral nerves with thinning of the myelin sheath. These symptoms may get worse for 2 to 3 months after cessation of exposure. Changes in vision may also be a symptom of chronic exposure to n-hexane

It's likely that the Wintek workers had long-term exposure to the chemicals given the often long work days at many Chinese factories and the fact the dozens of workers' symptoms were severe enough to require hospitalization.

“Lawsuits of any kind are uncommon in China, where disputes are usually addressed quietly behind closed doors,” reports Stratfor. “Much more common is labor abuse, and given the rising power of workers.”

We have reached out to Apple for a comment on the story, and will update the story if we get a response.



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Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 9:05:06 AM , Rating: 4
Things aren't all nice and flowery at Apple after all. I wonder what the Apple loving hippies will think of this?

People are dying--and Jobs is directly responsible for it. Alas, I'm not suprised, Jobs has had blood on his hands for years. In his eyes, I'm sure it is a "worthy sacrifice for his greater pockets."

Of course, we can't truly hold him to blame, can we? Haha sorry, I'm joking, of course we can!

Lets see, so far a guy has died because he lost a prototype i-phone, another has been forcibly searched and will be possibly sued and prosecuted for leaking another and now, people are dying in the factories making the phone. Yes, that's the spirit Jobs! Run sweatshops to make your phones, then, with the cost savings, instead of passing it on the consumer, gouge them for all they are worth!

It seems he has all the makings of a 21st century robber baron.




RE: Well this is just swell...
By chick0n on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By reader1 on 5/14/10, Rating: -1
RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gio6518 on 5/14/2010 12:50:02 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Revolutionary products released this year by Apple: 1


hope your not reffering to the iPod XL POS


RE: Well this is just swell...
By themaster08 on 5/14/2010 4:18:48 PM , Rating: 1
iPlod?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 12:57:31 PM , Rating: 5
Revolutionary posts made by reader 1 this year: 0


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gio6518 on 5/14/2010 1:30:37 PM , Rating: 1
reader1 my friend i dedicate this to

YOU
PIRKS
PORKPIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoS4Z07ldn8


RE: Well this is just swell...
By themaster08 on 5/14/2010 9:32:02 AM , Rating: 5
Jobs's vile personality and disregard for human life is portrayed by that vile company he is CEO of.

I'd feel guilty if I had bought Apple products, feeling that I am partially to blame for the loss of life by lining the pockets of such disgusting criminals such as Jobs.

They think they're invincible. Apple need to be taken down.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By mckinney on 5/14/2010 2:54:50 PM , Rating: 3
Just clarifying that Wintek builds for alot of manufacturers.
Their customers include Apple, Motorola, Nokia, HTC, HuaWei, Samsung, and Lenovo.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By themaster08 on 5/14/2010 4:18:19 PM , Rating: 2
That's fair enough. My judgement is not particularly based on this case, just in general.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 9:42:05 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
hings aren't all nice and flowery at Apple after all.
People are dying--and Jobs is directly responsible
Posts like this make me question the future of the human race. Can people be truly be so illogical?

a) The article didn't claim anyone has died.
b) Claims in a lawsuit by a plaintiff should never be assumed true without first hearing from the defendant.
c) This is a company Apple does business with, not Apple itself. Jobs is in way, shape, or form, "directly responsible" for their actions.

Would you like a pitchfork on your way to Frankenstein's castle, Herr Bauer?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/10, Rating: -1
RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gungel on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gungel on 5/14/2010 11:01:42 AM , Rating: 1
Now you understand. Just imagine what would have happened if Palin was voted in. Her IQ is for sure multiple times below Obama's.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Schrag4 on 5/14/2010 11:23:35 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Her IQ is for sure multiple times below Obama's.


My response is not a statement about Palin's IQ or Obama's IQ. I'm just wondering what you mean by "multiple times below". Care to explain how one number can be "multiple times below" another number?

If (and that's a big if) any conclusion can be drawn from Gungel's post, it's what goes on (or doesn't go on) inside Obama kool-aid drinkers' heads.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 11:36:00 AM , Rating: 2
Aaaa... Palin is much smarter then Obama. Example: Palin TelePrompter went down, she was able to finish her speech and continue on as if nothing happened. Obama, when his Teleprompter went down it was the end of the world for him, he could do nothing nor say anything... He's a snake charmer, not a smart man, there is a big difference. Remember he was able to go Harvard because of his very rich Grandmother (Mom's side) and because of his race. It was nothing to do with his grades (he was a C/D student). He was an employee at the University of Chicago, as a type of teachers assistant (not a professor), why? He was not good enough to be a professor and the school need to meet a minimum quota of minorities. If he was not this then he would have had a class to teach. By the way, the teachers did not use him as an aid to their class, they said he did not offer anything to improve the class.
P.S. Palin was not running for office like Obama was... McCain was running.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gungel on 5/14/2010 12:27:27 PM , Rating: 1
I see Russia from my house... enough said.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 12:33:01 PM , Rating: 4
"I see Russia from my house... enough said."

Coming from a person who stated someone's IQ is "multiple times below" another's, we wouldn't expect you know the difference between what Palin really said, and what a comedian playing Palin actually said.

Have you been sniffing o n-hexane, by chance?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 12:35:59 PM , Rating: 2
Ahhh.. Really??? You are going to quote "Saturday Night live" great... Maybe you should learn about the lady verse the people who poke fun about her. Then you could say something creditable about her verse a quote from a political satire script.

Your statement just shows how little you know about the politicians in the USA.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gungel on 5/14/2010 3:08:12 PM , Rating: 3
Her real interview she gave and countless other speeches on TP meet-ups are just an embarrassment.
For your reference here is the interview she gave to Gibson

"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they're doing in Georgia?

PALIN: Well, I'm giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it's in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along. "

WHAT???


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 4:04:01 PM , Rating: 1
and what are you questioning about her statement? Would also like to see where you are picking up exact quote from or did you type this an possible paraphrasing some lines?

1) Yes, you can see Russia from some areas in Alaska.
2) yes, she had to deal with Russia daily (shipping, boating, sea territory issues).
3) Yes, Russia is closer to Alaska then any USA state (of course not counting Alaska itself). Making Russia a next door neighbor just like Canada... though no other USA state is their next door neighbor.
4)She is correct a cold war will not benefit any, USA, our Allies, nor Russia.

So, what do you not understand or disagree with? and why do you find these facts an embarrassment? or did you not know that Russia is an Alaska really are that close?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gungel on 5/14/2010 4:58:50 PM , Rating: 2
wow, just wow. I didn't dispute any of her answers, but what do her answers have to do with the questions. Reminds me of that beauty pageant from a view years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkX3OyPF4Q&feature...


RE: Well this is just swell...
By whiskerwill on 5/14/2010 4:52:39 PM , Rating: 2
Since you don't have a clue about the train wreck you voted in for Vice President, let me fill you in:

How about the time Joe Biden told a wheelchair-bound Senator to "stand up and be recognized"?

How about Joe Biden telling a reporter that "President Roosevelt got on TV to reassure people" after the 1929 Stock Market crash (Hoover was president, and there were no TVs then)

How about the time Joe Biden told an Indian American that "you cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have an Indian accent":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7hU&feature...

How about him asking a reporter "do you know that website's number?"

How about Joe Biden getting caught for plagiarism in college, and lying about later on the campaign trail? How about him getting caught later plagiarizing speeches?

How about what Biden said about his own stimulus package: "If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, there’s still a 30 percent chance we’re going to get it wrong."?

How about Joe Biden telling the country it was too dangerous to travel, because of the swine flu? That was caused Obama's office to immediately repudiate it.

How about Joe Biden saying the ads his campaign used against McCain attacking him for not using a computer were "terrible and neither me nor Obama approved them" (when Obama had already admitted to approving them)?

How about the time Joe Biden introduced Obama as "Barack America"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTjlAd-GXM

How about the time Biden accidently said the Irish Prime Minister's mother was dead?

There's about 50,000 more but I got tired typing them in.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gungel on 5/14/2010 5:08:27 PM , Rating: 2
Why do you assume I voted for Obama? I didn't vote for McCain/Palin because of her.
How about McCain losing because of that terrible choice he made. I'm still mad at the republican party for not finding a better candidate. I would never vote for her.


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 6:26:15 PM , Rating: 2
let see you do not like Palin... Why? what did she do?
1) bring a state with an out of control budget back under control by cutting spending...(yes, that right cutting spending not increasing taxes... wow what a great idea).
2) Held individuals accountable for their own actions
3) Rid the state of many corrupt politicians.
4) has very strong conservative values.
5) Can gut a moose in probably 15 minutes.
6) Is not afraid to tell people what she thinks.
7) Can truly relate to the average person in this country (not born with silver spoon in mouth like many politicians - including Obama).
8) Believes in give everyone a fair change (hence not have abortion).

what is she to strong in US American values for you? I suggest you look into what she has done and achieve instead of listening to others. Most of the time the others do not know what they are talking about... She is most likely going to be running again and on the ticket. My guess partnered up with Mitt Romney - total guess at this point. However, if republicans want to win they will need to go with a strong conservative angle.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 11:52:05 AM , Rating: 2
I'll never vote for Palin. That is a strong statement by the way, but, no matter what, I won't vote for her. She has no business in the highest office of our nation.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 12:30:42 PM , Rating: 2
errr, is that to mean you think she is not qualified but somehow you think Obama is qualified?

I don't know that any person really has business being in the highest office of our nation. After all we are human and humans screw up all the time. The question that I've asked in more resent years has been, "Which person will do the least amount of damage?"

I wish we all had a light on our head that would light up if you lied or trying to mislead someone. It would make this whole process much easier.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 12:36:51 PM , Rating: 1
Not at all. She has about as much business being the president as Obama does--none. I don't like either one of them. :)

The thing that miffs me the most about Palin is the fact that she stepped down from being Governor of Alaska when she started getting beat up badly in the press. When you are President, you don't have that option, you have to stick it out because the people are counting on you (assuming you are doing the right things). Palin "walked away" saying she was moving on to other things when really, it looks like she stuck her head in the sand and tried to hide.

That is the main reason I won't vote for her. I want a commander-in-chief with a pair of ethereal testicles, something neither of these two have.

I totally agree with you on "Which person will do the least amount of damage?"

That is how we have all been forced to vote over the last decade. Sad, isn't it? There was a time at some point where we actually had some real candidates. I wish we'd go back to that.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 12:51:41 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure on the lawsuits, only what I've seen and read so far. You'd think the state would pay to defend their Governor though, and, if it were the president being sued, I'd hope they would have enough spine to not step down because of it.

Either way, I wasn't that impressed by her in the debates as well. She just isn't my cup of tea. The only person in the last round of elections I might have considered was Huckabee, with Lieberman as his running mate. Yes--a R and a D on the same ticket. :)

Somehow, we have to find a way to make them get along and... move back to the middle line. That is, until we get a good independent candidate.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By whiskerwill on 5/14/2010 1:05:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Either way, I wasn't that impressed by her in the debates as well.
Then you never saw any debate between her and Joe Biden. He was hilarious, and not in a good way.

I seriously doubt you've even listened to a single speech of hers.


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 1:09:15 PM , Rating: 2
Huckabee had my interest...


RE: Well this is just swell...
By ekv on 5/15/2010 4:03:57 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You'd think the state would pay to defend their Governor
Curious.

Is it possible she did what was best for the state of Alaska? Instead of consuming endless legal resources for herself she stepped down. That way the Lt. Gov can focus on balancing budgets and taking care of real matters [as opposed to frivolous].

Fortunately for her, a book deal comes along and she is able to cover legal expenses and, in general, defend herself. I hope she counter-sues and the lawyer-scum going after her have to pay punitive damages. Just shameful.

I disagree with some things Palin has done and don't care for her endorsement of Fiorina over conservative Chuck DeVore. Etc. However, she's easy to look at, she isn't dumb (and you know it actually), and she has some semblance of morality unlike her more recent opponent.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 10:04:48 AM , Rating: 3
Apple profits by doing business with this company, and therefore has some responsibility for making sure there is some standards in working conditions with their suppliers.

You can't just contract out slave/subsistence wage labour and then absolve yourself of the abuse that goes on in order to keep your own profit margins high.

This is not at all a problem specific to Apple. It's just business as usual.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 10:24:21 AM , Rating: 1
Alright let's put it another way. Apple has a business arrangement with this company, therefore... blah blah everything else I said.

Profit, as you rightly point out, has nothing to do with it. The work being done at this company is on behalf of Apple, and Apple is paying for the work. How is it okay, in your mind, for Apple to pay absolutely no attention to whether or not there are reasonable working conditions in the factories that make Apple's products?

Capitalism and responsibility are not mutually exclusive.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 10:38:11 AM , Rating: 3
I'd say yes if you find that you're paying someone that's abusing their workers you have a responsibility to see that abuse stopped or find someone else to do the work for you.

Or you can look the other way and enjoy the lower price you're getting and say 'not my problem' over and over.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/10, Rating: -1
RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 11:02:49 AM , Rating: 2
My point is you end up taking some responsibility for the abuse if you're sponsoring it. I'm not saying you go do fun a fine-tooth comb through your business partner's affairs, but how far you look into the matter is a calculated risk you take.

For one of your examples, how would you know about the negligence of the construction company getting that worker killed (for the home you want to buy)? Knowing about it, do you buy the house from that company or not? Do you care if they're prosecuted for the offence, or are you just going to buy the house anyway, and reinforce their behaviour of maximising profits by neglecting worker safety?

For the gas company: if you find one company is wilfully abusing their workers or being negligent with environmental standards - leaky tanks and whatnot, do you continue to buy from them, or do you exercise your choice to go somewhere else?

You are responsible for your own choices. If you reasonably believe those you're doing business with are ethical, then fine. If you encourage unethical behaviour by rewarding it, ie. pressuring suppliers to lower their prices to the point of not being able to provide safe work environments nor adequate worker pay - then yes, you are responsible when the crap hits the fan and something does go wrong.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 11:11:42 AM , Rating: 1
You still didn't answer the question. Are you responsible or not in the cases I listed, whether or not you had prior knowledge? A simple yes or no will do.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 11:17:22 AM , Rating: 1
You want a black and white answer in the field of ethics, with no attached explanation.

I've answered yes and explained why at least a couple times in this thread already.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By OmegaVX on 5/14/2010 11:47:55 AM , Rating: 2
so youre comparing apple to a consumer who rang up a company and never hear from them because they were involved in a crash on the way to the job???

lol, thats just stupid


RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 11:48:09 AM , Rating: 2
Lol no. Sorry Porkpie, but what are you trying to do here?

First, we have to establish that the company was negligent, and ethically responsible for the worker's death/injury.

Then, we have to establish that you choose to do business with them anyway.

And even then, in our society we pay for a system where criminal negligence is (often) prosecuted. Knowing that, it's reasonable to think you are safe to conduct your business and let the system catch the criminals. Sponsoring this system is us taking responsibility for the problem and doing something about it.

How does this apply in Apple's case? They might not have known about the problem, but they are responsible for the working conditions of the people making their products and lining their pockets. If they've put some reasonable effort into making sure their business isn't based of unethical treatment of workers, then they have been acting responsibly about the matter. And you can't catch every problem. Factories can cover things up when their customers come around. I'm not convicting Apple of negligence here, but it's a simple matter to say that they share responsibility.

Sorry that can't be more black and white for you, really.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 11:55:28 AM , Rating: 1
"First, we have to establish that the company was negligent"

That was the assumption. Bad tyres and poorly maintained brakes.

"Then, we have to establish that you choose to do business with them anyway ."

There you go moving the goalposts again. Your claim was that corporations are responsible for the acts of everyone they do business with, whether or not they knew of any problems beforehand.

So I repeat the question. In the case above-- are you responsible or not? Show some backbone and give a straight answer ... you had no problem voicing a firm opinion about Apple. Don't waffle now that the spotlight is on you.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By bisoy on 5/14/2010 12:15:57 PM , Rating: 1
God porkpie you should just shut-up.

Dude there's no black and white answers to your legal questions if they are indeed legal questions.

In response to your original questions above (not the bad tires stuff). Yes and No. You "can" be held responsible for injuries occurring in your house even though you are hiring contractors. But to explain as to when and how you will can be responsible will have to require me to write a book. Go look up Workers Compensation Insurance when pertaining to contractors and sub-contractors.

Morally though, as individuals who respect the rights of others we don't need to resort to legalese talk. It is Apple's moral (and maybe legal, can't be sure in China) duty to make sure that the contract-manufacturers that they hire, treats their workers the same respect and dignity as what Apple is doing to their own employees. After all, these are products that will ultimately carry the Apple brand. These are sacred products (at least to some).


RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 12:20:09 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree with you about calling him to shut up. I think porkpie should keep talking. I disagree with many of his views, but as far as conversation goes I find his posts (usually) to be informative.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 12:24:44 PM , Rating: 2
"Dude there's no black and white answers to your legal questions"

To correct you, it was a moral question, not a legal one.

Now Dude, if you're excuse me, I have a surfboard to wax...


RE: Well this is just swell...
By jkostans on 5/14/10, Rating: 0
RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 12:16:59 PM , Rating: 2
Yes. If you do business with a company that is criminally negligent, causing injury or death to a worker or workers, then you are partially responsible.

What I tried to show in the previous post was that your example doesn't directly compare because you are already putting effort (taxes) towards preventing unethical treatment of workers. Were it truly the 'wild west' then I would say ethically you should do your research and see where your money is going.

Let me put it another way. Is the observant religious follower responsible if his religious establishment uses his charitable donation to fund suicide bombing missions? I'd say yes.

If you don't know what your own choices are promoting and what activities your own money is funding, then you're being irresponsible. Again, my proposition is that in our own society, we rely on the regulatory framework as a means to put reasonable effort into ensuring ethical practices are followed. It is simply more convenient that way, as I know for myself I don't have to to track down all this information on every purchase I make.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 1:38:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
we rely on the regulatory framework as a means to put reasonable effort into ensuring ethical practices are followed. It is simply more convenient that way, as I know for myself I don't have to to track down all this information on every purchase I make.
Aha! It's ok for you to rely on the regulatory framework to ensure ethical practices...but not OK for Apple to rely on that same framework?

What you really mean is that a company should be forced to expend their own time, money, and energy to ensure Chinese companies follow American legal standards on worker safety.

Tell me-- do you buy any products from China? How are you any less culpable than Apple?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 2:08:09 PM , Rating: 2
If you're happy accepting Chinese ethical practices as being good enough for American business (or people), then I'm afraid we have nothing left to argue about.

And you have a good point. I don't shop at Walmart because I don't like their business practices, but I can't (well I suppose one could at great cost) avoid Chinese-made goods altogether. Heck probably a lot of the electronics I use at work are made in Chinese sweat shops.

I advocate for more controls over what's imported and sold in western markets. I think it's dirty money to be profiting off abused workers. I also think it's ridiculous to take centuries of progress on working standards in western culture and throw it out the window by making American firms compete with imports from China (and elsewhere) where working conditions are so terrible.

And how, exactly, does me being guilty of buying Chinese goods (I assume I am I can't find a "made in China" on any of my electronics/clothes) change anything? I've never made any argument on the basis of any concept of personal perfection or moral superiority.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 2:22:57 PM , Rating: 2
"I can't (well I suppose one could at great cost) avoid Chinese-made goods "

So you judge the cost too high to adhere to your ethics? Rather hypocritical, isn't it?

As for Chinese workers being "mistreated" -- I've been to China many times. I suspect you haven't. There are people queuing up for jobs like Foxconn, because its far, far better than the alternative of working 15 hour days in the rice paddies, and starving when the crop fails.

It's easy to shoot your mouth and sit back with a satisfied smirk on your face, good deed done for the day. But what's your solution? Give Chinese workers US-level wages, hours, and working conditions, and you've made US-level costs also. Add in shipping, import-export costs, hassles of doing business in different languages and cultures, and suddenly, none of these jobs are economic any longer. Not even close.

So all the jobs vanish, the Chinese go back to their agrarian, 18th century lifestyle of constant hardship, and hope goes out of their lives entirely.

Wow, good deed!

Have you ever even thought about what its like to be a abstinence farmer? Planting and harvesting without the help of heavy machinery? Do you have any idea what sort of backbreaking labor is involved? Or the never-ending hours? The complete and utter lack of any safety net? The bone-grinding poverty? The lack of being able to afford even the most basic of comfort?

Companies like Foxconn are bringing hope to the Chinese. That's why there are 20 people waiting for every job opening. Think about that before you let pseudo-intellectual sophomoric guilt take it away from them.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 2:46:04 PM , Rating: 2
You assume a lot of things about me in a debate. Making it personal serves no purpose.

Why not, given the track record of abuse in developing-world factories, put in clauses like bonuses for workplace safety or penalties for hazardous working conditions?

I don't see how mistreating someone is justified because they'd be even worse off elsewhere. That's just taking advantage of their misfortune. I'm sure life in Africa wasn't lovely a couple hundred years ago, but that hardly justifies slavery.

In any case, I've been having a debate about the ethics of the situation, and I still stand by that if you pay someone to do work for you on your behalf, then you are responsible for that work. That responsibility includes a share of the profits as well as a share of the responsibility to make sure the work is done ethically, ie. we should minimise hazard to health and life.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By HotFoot on 5/14/2010 2:51:15 PM , Rating: 2
And the "great cost" I was referring to was that I would be unable to accept any work in my field, given that generally I'm expected to use electronics and other gear and I have no control over what my employers buy.

But truly I don't care to argue this point. Call me a hypocrite if you want. I'm not demanding that Apple boycott Chinese factories. I'm saying that ethically there is a responsibility tied to doing business. Perhaps something can be done to make an improvement in this area.


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 3:25:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
TextPerhaps something can be done to make an improvement in this area


Yes, there can be... Start build in the USA again. Bring production back home. This of course will take years, but it will be worth it.
No, production cost is not that much different. Now factor in shipping and all it balanced out to equal price. However, once you add in government tax breaks and such well everything is out of whack again.


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 3:19:51 PM , Rating: 2
Keep your eye peeled for the made in the USA label.. Not the made in America. Made in America can cover many countries.

Once you start looking for the product you will find that idea that because it's from China it's cheaper is a myth... Maybe at one time it was true, but the market place keeps everyone in line. Check out light bulbs, in the many stores you will see the made in USA one are actually cheaper then the made in China units. The hardest thing will be finding products that say, "made in the USA"


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 3:07:59 PM , Rating: 2
I think the point Porkpie is making can be put into real life terms for everyone in the USA right now.

We all drive cars to get to work or do our work (well most of us do). Therefore we all profit from the use and buying of gas. One stations that many of us buy from is BP. So, anyone here that has bought BP gas in the last say 3 years, you better feel responsible for the oil leak disaster going on in the Gulf of Mexico, because it's from your demand upon that company to produce gas that they were drilling in the Gulf in the first place.

So HotFoot 1) Did you buy from BP? 2) if yes, do you feel personally for oil now leaking into the Gulf. If you do buy from BP then per your words you have to feel personally responsible for it... per porkpie he'd said, No I do not feel personally responsible for the leak.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By OmegaVX on 5/14/2010 11:11:12 AM , Rating: 1
As a corporation entering into a business contract with the manufacturing company it is their resonsibilty to make sure the conditions and practices in use are up to the standard of health and safety which they want their company to be associated with, therefore apple are just as much to blame.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Starcub on 5/14/2010 11:44:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Profit, as you rightly point out, has nothing to do with it.

Profit has quite a lot to do with it. Companies do business with nations that we've entered into 'free' trade agreements with in order to lower labor costs. The terms of the trade agreements are governed by international organizations like the WTO and are structured to permit lower regulatory burdens for "developing" nations in the name of developing third world economies.

Companies like Apple have their products made in these 'developing' countries (who's own workers can't afford to purchase the products at international market value) and ship those products to consuming nations like the US. The lack of taxes and tariffs associated with these agreements, and the vast economic disparities that exist between the various nations involved make this kind of activity profitable.

BTW, I agree with you that Apple is partially responsible. Apple is in the drivers seat in the negotiation process, and is responsible to ensure that organizations it partners with adhere to socially responsible standards. In fact, I'm willing to bet that Apple probably has some kind of corporate mission or philosphical statement to that effect printed in boldly colored text on their annual report to stockholders. One can't simply abdicate authority and claim ignorance.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By KaptinB on 5/14/2010 6:19:28 PM , Rating: 2
I believe this is the "philosophical statement printed in boldly colored text" you are looking for (Apple doesn't have a glossy printed annual report to stockholders)

http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/

or if you are too lazy to click the link:

"We insist that our suppliers provide safe working conditions, treat workers with dignity and respect, and use environmentally responsible manufacturing processes."

On the other hand, I actually agree with Porky and don't think a company (or individual) should be held responsible for the actions of a party with which they have a business arrangement unless they are aware of abuse or illegal activity taking place and take no action. Apple should perform due diligence of suppliers, but beyond that...


RE: Well this is just swell...
By KaptinB on 5/14/2010 6:31:08 PM , Rating: 1
I just browsed through their Progress Report in the link on apple's site, and for all the people bitching about how Apple is profiting from the abuse of employees at their suppliers.....you should really read this.

http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf...

I can't think of too many companies that go to these lengths - they list several examples of companies that failed audits with whom they have canceled business agreements. They might not be perfect, but if half of what is in the document is true and not just PR BS, they are more activistic in promoting Western style employee rights than any company I have ever worked for or done business with.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 10:21:48 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can people be truly be so illogical?


Perhaps Mr. pigpie, you should look in a mirror. :)

If you can't identify blatant sensationalism that I don't know what can help you. My post was ripe with it and was a playful jab at Apple as a whole.

Nobody is dying, this is true, but they are substaining substantial injury...

quote:
neurogenic damage and swelling of peripheral nerves with thinning of the myelin sheath


Things like this are not trivial at all. Logic flows out of my butt like water flows through the mississippi river. Repeatedly you attack the lack of logic but, due none other than your own disorder, you continue to exhibit fallacy.

I present to you this:

"If the sheath is able to repair and regenerate itself, normal nerve function may return. However, if the sheath is severely damaged, the underlying nerve fiber can die. Because nerve fibers in the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) rarely regenerate, such damage is irreversible."

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec06/ch092/ch092a.html

"Disorders that cause demyelination in the central nervous system and have no known cause are called primary demyelinating disorders. Multiple sclerosis is the most common of these disorders."

Now, this n-Hexane is not, as far as we know yet, causing Multiple sclerosis, but the symptoms some of the people are experiencing, plus the potential damage that it continues to wreck upon them, is in fact very similar to Multiple sclerosis. MS is an extremely debilitating condition.

I'm not sure how you could not consider it serious. It isn't dying (remember, sensationalism), but, it sure is not to be taken lightly at all.

quote:
This is a company Apple does business with, not Apple itself. Jobs is in way, shape, or form, "directly responsible" for their actions.


This line you fed in reply is the most amusing. Jobs is in fact _very_ responsible for this situation because he is the head of the ship. At no time is the CEO of a company not responsible for those underneath him, including managers who set up relationships with companies overseas.

Now, lets try logic on for size a little further (no oinking please),

Jobs exhibits strict control over his company and products (a few leaks, okay, they are bound to happen).

Before Jobs, Apple sucked.

Jobs hires managers to work underneath him.

Jobs is truly the "brains" behind the company, without him, it would potentially be in trouble. Any investor can tell you this.

If Jobs is such a valuable asset to the company, obviously he has some knowledge or input into where the products are manufactured. A company puts its name on its product and where its product is manufactured is a direct represenation of the companies philosophy. If they use a sweatshop, they better know they are using one and be willing to accept the consequences of their actions should it come to light. The CEO and the company are directly accountable for these third parties they use--as they hand picked them in the first place.

This is called accountability. This is a word that isn't being taught in school anymore, and instead, the word blame is replacing it. This is unfortunate but this is how it works.

Are you then suggesting Apple should play the blame game rather than admit to their own faults and suck it up and deal with it the proper, accountable way?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 10:28:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
My post was ripe with it and was a playful jab at Apple as a whole. Nobody is dying, this is true, but they are substaining substantial injury
So you claim you were "playing", then turn around say say people are being seriously injured? Sorry, the article states no such thing. If I had to guess, I imagine those people were hospitalized for acute exposure, causing headaches and nausea. They haven't even alleged chronic damage, so why do you assume it?

quote:
neurogenic damage and swelling of peripheral nerves with thinning of the myelin sheath
Exposure to too much water (water poisoning) can lead to headaches, vomiting, nausea, unconsciousness, coma, and even death.

Do you get the point...or do I need to connect the dots?

quote:
the symptoms some of the people are experiencing [is] in fact very similar to Multiple sclerosis
The article listed no symptoms, yet you are assuming them. See now why you're being called illogical?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 10:56:36 AM , Rating: 2
Porkpie, I didn't think you were bad at reading comprehension but sometimes I just shake my head. The article directly states the following:

quote:
Long-term exposure to n-hexane may cause disturbances in sensation, muscle weakness, and distal symmetric pain in the legs. Clinical changes include muscle atrophy, decreased muscle strength, footdrop, numbness, prickling, and a tingling sensation in the arms and legs. Neurological investigations reveal decreased motor nerve conduction, neurogenic damage and swelling of peripheral nerves with thinning of the myelin sheath. These symptoms may get worse for 2 to 3 months after cessation of exposure. Changes in vision may also be a symptom of chronic exposure to n-hexane


quote:
The article listed no symptoms, yet you are assuming them. See now why you're being called illogical?


So, please tell me how the article mentions no symptoms. It mentions possible symptoms of n-hexane poisoning but avoids mentioning direct symptoms, but, regardless, it does mention symptoms in the form of an example.

Perhaps you drank too much dihydrogen monoxide this morning. ;) I'm assuming nothing and perhaps I should update my post with "possibly experiencing." I'm reporting the possible consequences of exposure to n-hexane to provide more detail as to what could possibly going wrong and relating them to another, more well known condition.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 11:17:11 AM , Rating: 2
"The article directly states the following:"

Are you intentionally being obtuse? The article listed no symptoms the workers are suffering.

Do you honestly not know what hexane is? It's a primary component of gasoline ... you're exposed to hexane fumes every time you pump gas into your car.

If you breath in a little too much, you'll be hospitalized for exposure...without normally experiencing any permanent damage.

Mere "exposure" in itself is meaningless. Your illogical assumptions of permanent harm, simply from from scary language on an OSHA site, don't bear up to scrutiny.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 11:48:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you breath in a little too much, you'll be hospitalized for exposure...without normally experiencing any permanent damage.


Sure, this might be the case, however, do you really think the workers were exposed to it only once, or, due to the fact that they are working in a factory, they might be repeatedly exposed to it on an ongoing basis, thus leading towards substantiation of some of the possible side effects that were mentioned in the text of the article?

quote:
Do you honestly not know what hexane is? It's a primary component of gasoline ... you're exposed to hexane fumes every time you pump gas into your car.


Of course I know what hexane is, and gasoline is primarily comprised of hexanes. However, gasoline ONLY contains between 1-3% of n-hexane .

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs113.html

While hexanes might be a significant component of gasoline, n-hexane is not (unless you consider 1-3% significant).

Please, try and back up your conjecture with hard facts next time. Try harder Porkpie. I expect more from you and hold you to a higher standard. :)


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 12:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
"do you really think the workers were exposed to it only once?"

Have you only pumped gas once in your life?

"However, gasoline ONLY contains between 1-3% of n-hexane?"

What's your point? The other organic hydrocarbons in gasoline (n-heptane, iso-octane, etc) are as much or even more neurotoxic than hexane is:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC152001...

The fact remains you are exposed to hexane every time you pump gas. Attempting to state workers must have experienced longterm damage simply because an OSHA warning label states its a possibility is sophomoric nonsense.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 12:15:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The fact remains you are exposed to hexane every time you pump gas. Attempting to state workers must have experienced longterm damage simply because an OSHA warning label states its a possibility is sophomoric nonsense.


I didn't write the article, Brandon did. He states the following in it:

quote:
It's likely that the Wintek workers had long-term exposure to the chemicals given the often long work days at many Chinese factories and the fact the dozens of workers' symptoms were severe enough to require hospitalization.


If it really bothers you that much, file a formal request for article amendment then.

Logically speaking though, it does make sense that they were exposed to it repeatedly, in a factory, which, typically are indoors.

When you pump gas, you pump it outside where there is adequate ventilation. In a Chinese factory, who knows how much ventilation there is?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 12:29:10 PM , Rating: 2
"If it really bothers you that much, file a formal request for article amendment "

You're being obtuse again. No one is arguing long term exposure. The problem is your ill-founded assumption that such exposure automatically implies permanent damage.

"In a Chinese factory, who knows how much ventilation there is?"

Since you admit you don't know, why do you assume there isn't enough?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 12:38:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since you admit you don't know, why do you assume there isn't enough?


Why do you assume there is? ;)

Lets all just group hug and move on as the concrete we're banging our heads against is really starting to crack now.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By whiskerwill on 5/14/2010 1:07:52 PM , Rating: 1
I didn't see him assuming anything. I saw you assuming there was a problem without evidence, and then crying like a baby when you got slapped down for it.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gio6518 on 5/14/2010 11:39:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is a company Apple does business with, not Apple itself. Jobs is in way, shape, or form, "directly responsible" for their actions.


what are you talkin about of course they are responsible

look at the housing market where builders were using chinese drywall, what happened did the chinese company come out and gut the houses that used it, no the builder did at the cost of millions if not billions....it is the companies responsibility to investigate the business practices that it does business with.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 12:12:47 PM , Rating: 2
By that logic, if you bought one of those homes and later resold it, you're guilty if the new owner gets sick in the house.

How dare you sell a home without first doing extensive chemical testing on each and every component used in it!


RE: Well this is just swell...
By Gio6518 on 5/14/2010 12:55:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
By that logic, if you bought one of those homes and later resold it, you're guilty if the new owner gets sick in the house.


if i knew about it then yes its called full disclosure

apple sets the standard and specs to which its products are made. more than likely (purely speculative) they were told which cleaning agents to use to properly clean screen, the screens thickness etc etc etc


RE: Well this is just swell...
By thekdub on 5/14/2010 10:18:17 AM , Rating: 4
Apple is a green company. Jobs is simply doing his part to prevent environmental destruction by ensuring these workers do not further pollute the environment.


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 10:23:25 AM , Rating: 2
I laughed really loud when I read this. :)


RE: Well this is just swell...
By adiposity on 5/14/2010 12:47:23 PM , Rating: 2
Hyperbolize much?


RE: Well this is just swell...
By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 2:26:38 PM , Rating: 2
All the time. :)


By theapparition on 5/14/2010 9:21:49 AM , Rating: 2
Two days ago, another Chinese Foxconn employee committed "suicide" by "jumping" from a high rise apartment in the massive Foxconn manufacturing plant where Apple products are manufactured. She died in a very similar manor to the man who died last year, after losing an Apple prototype.

Coincidentally, two days ago, a Vietnamese website leaked a complete tear down of the new 4G iPhone. Reports are that this girl had a position that would have provided her access to the prototype.

Coincidence?

I swear Jobs is the Godfather of the electonic Mafia. Cross him at your own peril.




RE: Where's the report of another iPhone "Suicide"?
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 9:46:30 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
She died in a very similar manor to the man who died last year...
Albert Einstein and Al Capone both died in a very similar manner, and in the same country...and most suggestive of all, they both had the same first name !!!!

Coincidence? I think not.


By chagrinnin on 5/14/2010 10:03:30 AM , Rating: 2
Wow,...so Albert and Al had iPhones?


By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 10:48:49 AM , Rating: 2
This is illogical.

quote:
Albert Einstein and Al Capone both died in a very similar manner, and in the same country...and most suggestive of all, they both had the same first name !!!!


Einstein died due to an abdominal aortic aneurysm rupturing.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/436253

Al Capone's death went something like this:

"On January 21, 1947, Capone had an apoplectic stroke. He regained consciousness and started to improve but contracted pneumonia on January 24. He suffered a fatal cardiac arrest the next day."

He died from cardiac arrest due likely to the pneumonia.

Two very different manners of death.

Logic... fail.


RE: Where's the report of another iPhone "Suicide"?
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 11:09:47 AM , Rating: 2
"Two very different manners of death. Logic... fail."

Were you joking, or merely ignorant of medical terminology? A ruptured aneurysm is a burst blood vessel. An apoplectic stroke is a burst blood vessel in the brain. Further, people do not die of cardiac arrest from pneumonia within 24 hours. His subsequent medical problems were complications from the stroke which hospitalized him (which itself was a complication of his long-term neurosyphilis.)


By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 11:37:40 AM , Rating: 2
You really must not slept long enough last night. I forgive you. :)

"Apoplexy has been used as a synonym for "stroke"

Stroke:

"suddenly occurring functional disorder of the brain caused by either an occluded or burst blood vessel."

http://www.stroke-hotline.com/edefinition01.htm

Are you making an assumption in this statement:

quote:
An apoplectic stroke is a burst blood vessel in the brain.


When in fact, I just proved you wrong?

Furthermore, I will take this a step further.

The Aorta, in the vicinity of the abdomen, has a diameter of between 19 and 25 mm, the median being about 21 mm.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/46186/a...

In the brain, the largest single structure if dissimenating blood flow to its structures is the Circle of Willis. The median diameter has been measured at approximately 1.1 mm

http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/31/...

Average blood flow varies in the Abdominal Aorta depending on location, somewhere between 1100 to 5600 ml/minute.

Average blood flow to the whole brain (not just one tiny artery in it) is approximately 750 ml/minute.

Lets see for a moment. 1.1 mm versus 21 mm, which one has more blood flow? Obviously the Aorta does. If an aneurysm bursts in the aorta, generally people die from acute blood loss, some die instantly, some die more slowly. It is an awful way to die.

A stroke, on the other hand, can either be an obstructed vessel or a burst one. IF it is obstructed, then death results from dying of the brain tissue due to lack of bloodflow, not blood loss. If the vessel bursts, people still do not die from the blood loss. Instead, they typically die from the brain dying due to

1. The destruction in the immediate vicinity of the rupture caused by the pressure of spurting blood

2. Acute, rising intercranial pressure due to the blood filling the cranial space with more volume than it can adequately contain, thus producing pressure on the surrounding neural tissue, compacting it thus impairing its chemical function.

This are two _very_ different ways to die. I'm not sure why you are arguing with me over it. Just accept the fact that you are wrong.


RE: Where's the report of another iPhone "Suicide"?
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 11:51:23 AM , Rating: 2
""Apoplexy has been used as a synonym for "stroke""

Did you pull that off Wikipedia? An apoplectic stroke is a particular type of stroke -- one caused by cerebrovascular bleeding. To be more precise, I should say it 'was" in the 1950s when Einstein died -- the term is no longer used today.

"Lets see for a moment. 1.1 mm versus 21 mm, which one has more blood flow?"


You're right, the deaths are as different as if one had died from a plane crash, and the other from cancer.

You've proven the case. There is no similarity whatsoever in the deaths of a person who died from a small burst blood vessel, and one who died from a large burst vessel, and I abjure, curse, and detest the evil heresy that made me claim otherwise, and I swear, affirm, attest, and promise with all my faith, to not repeat my slanderous, detestable remarks again. So help me God and the Holy Gospels.


By MrBlastman on 5/14/2010 12:00:03 PM , Rating: 1
Quit making assumptions. Did you not read my post? Reading c o m p r e h e n s i o n. If you had followed my sources, you would have seen the following:

quote:
The term „apoplectic stroke" (apoplexy, palsy, cerebrovascular apoplexy, vascular cerebral apoplexy, apoplexia cerebri) combines different clinical pictures which share a suddenly occurring functional disorder of the brain caused by either an occluded or burst blood vessel.


http://www.stroke-hotline.com/edefinition01.htm

oc·clude /?'klud/ Show Spelled [uh-klood] Show IPA verb,-clud·ed, -clud·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.to close, shut, or stop up (a passage, opening, etc.).
2.to shut in, out, or off.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/occluded

burst /b?rst/ Show Spelled [burst] Show IPA verb,burst or, often, burst·ed, burst·ing, noun
–verb (used without object)
1.to break, break open, or fly apart with sudden violence: The bitter cold caused the pipes to burst.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/burst

Two different things completely. Bursting is not the same as Occluded. Quit making assumptions. It could have been either or, but, regardless, even if it was a burst he would not have died from acute blood loss, he would have instead died because of brain death through elevated intercranial pressure. He would never have lost enough blood into the cranial cavity to cause oxygen levels in his body to drop far enough.


By Spivonious on 5/14/2010 9:52:31 AM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I think honor has a much bigger place in Asian cultures. Killing yourself is a way of taking responsibility for your actions and not letting your family be shamed. If a samurai loses a battle, he commits seppuku.

I'd be very surprised if there was any foul play going on.


By porkpie on 5/14/2010 10:16:19 AM , Rating: 2
But conspiracy theories are so much more fun.


RE: Where's the report of another iPhone "Suicide"?
By fsardis on 5/14/2010 11:00:37 AM , Rating: 2
I believe you will find that not all Asia is Japan. Suicide in the name of honour is not widespread across Asia.
2 pieces of technology misplaced and 2 workers dead within days. If that is not an indication of foul play I don't know what is. Whether it is Apple's fault or not is a different story but Iet's face it, Foxcon is an OEM for many companies and so far, suicides have only been linked to Apple projects. Coincidence or Conspiracy?


RE: Where's the report of another iPhone "Suicide"?
By porkpie on 5/14/2010 11:23:12 AM , Rating: 1
"Coincidence or Conspiracy?"

"Idiocy" is the correct word here. First, these two deaths were nearly a YEAR apart, not "days".

Secondly, there are over 300,000 workers at Foxconn's plant. China's suicide rate is 14 per 100,000. A plant that size would therefore expect around 42 suicides per year. Seems like they're doing better than average, not worse.

See how differently things look when you use logic, rather than emotional blather?


By theapparition on 5/14/2010 2:08:34 PM , Rating: 2
A little more reading comprehension is in order. The OP clearly indicated that days after each of the prototypes went missing, there were deaths resulting from suicide, not that the deaths happened within days of each other.

Slow down and try to read before you fire off one of your thousands of posts (which, for the most part I hold in high respect).

And for your attempt at snarky humor by trying to relate the deaths of two famous individuals who both died by natural causes to deaths of workers that in any other culture would be treated as "suspicious" doesn't help your argument.

Fact: Apple prototype was misplaced and Foxconn security roughed up the alleged employee, who minutes later falls to his death.

Fact: iPhone prototype shows up on website and employee who had access to it falls to her death.

I don't need Matlock to draw me a strait line. Believe what you will, and so will I. But to deny that Chinese corporations have in fact used brutal security forces and "gestapo" squads is putting on blinders to the myriad of human rights violations the government has been condemned for.

BTW,
Stick to the facts, that's what you do best. Like this one:
quote:
Secondly, there are over 300,000 workers at Foxconn's plant. China's suicide rate is 14 per 100,000. A plant that size would therefore expect around 42 suicides per year. Seems like they're doing better than average, not worse.


By porkpie on 5/14/2010 2:41:54 PM , Rating: 1
"Fact: Apple prototype was misplaced and Foxconn security roughed up the alleged employee, who minutes later falls to his death."

Correction, workers allegedly roughed him up, and later that day he jumps to his death, as captured on the apartment's CCTV video cameras.

"Fact: iPhone prototype shows up on website and employee who had access to it falls to her death."

This is even worse. Here's what Business Week says about it:
quote:
The worker in question was identified only by the surname Zhu. She was actually on holiday, the paper notes, according to Hon Hai, which said that the suicide was related to personal matters, citing information from the local police investigating the matter.

As far as I know, its complete speculation that she even had access to an iPhone prototype.


Wow...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 9:43:58 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
TextLong-term exposure to n-hexane may cause disturbances in sensation, muscle weakness, and distal symmetric pain in the legs. Clinical changes include muscle atrophy, decreased muscle strength, footdrop, numbness, prickling, and a tingling sensation in the arms and legs. Neurological investigations reveal decreased motor nerve conduction, neurogenic damage and swelling of peripheral nerves with thinning of the myelin sheath. These symptoms may get worse for 2 to 3 months after cessation of exposure. Changes in vision may also be a symptom of chronic exposure to n-hexane


All this time I thought I was just getting older. It turns out I must be exposed to n-hexane. You learn something new everyday.




RE: Wow...
By Gungel on 5/14/2010 10:57:43 AM , Rating: 2
That's the reason the battery is not replaceable to keep all the poisonous gasses inside the iPhone's and iPod's


RE: Wow...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 12:21:30 PM , Rating: 2
I use Fiber to control my poisonous gasses... :P


Name is familiar...
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/14/2010 9:03:28 AM , Rating: 2
Is this the same Wintek that used to make video cards? I thought they got gobbled up by Foxconn a few years ago. Maybe I am just remembering wrong.




RE: Name is familiar...
By thekdub on 5/14/2010 10:16:49 AM , Rating: 2
There could be a relationship there. Maybe they are just a smaller subsidiary of Foxconn now. After all, Foxconn is involved in the manufacturing of the iPhone and other Apple products as far as I know.


Lawsuit, really?
By mcnabney on 5/14/2010 9:35:11 AM , Rating: 2
Is anyone else surprised that workers can sue a manufacture in China?




RE: Lawsuit, really?
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 5/14/2010 9:40:55 AM , Rating: 2
yes, very surprised... However, they may not live the summer that is, they just might magically disappear.


Hahaha
By FaceMaster on 5/14/2010 8:58:25 AM , Rating: 2
Serves them right for helping Apple!!!




Bullsh*t
By quiksilvr on 5/14/2010 9:02:34 AM , Rating: 2
That's what happens when you cut corners. Just use ammonia free Windex! DOY!




It's your freedom
By intelpatriot on 5/14/2010 10:55:26 AM , Rating: 2
It was the employees FREE CHOICE to work for Apple.

They either knew what they were doing or they were ignorant, in either case it is not their employers duty to look after their welfare.

If anything they should face sanction for defaming the Apple brand. If you get sick at work, man up and die in a corner.




By bruce24 on 5/14/2010 12:53:25 PM , Rating: 2
the article would have said Nokia vs iphone/Apple. Wintek is a company that makes various types of flat screens for the consumer electronics industry. They have many customers including Nokia as other articles about the lawsuit mention.




Am I missing something?
By Pessimism on 5/14/2010 4:51:06 PM , Rating: 2
How can enough of this chemical be used to poison dozens of workers? Brand new small LCD screens can't hold THAT much filth, and common sense would dictate that the workers wear clean gloves while handling the glass?




Dear Santa Claus
By wardww on 5/15/2010 3:49:59 PM , Rating: 1
For Christmas I would like all those dumbfucks who insist on politicizing every fucking post on this site (you know who you are) to develop anal cancer and die slowly (my thanks to Sean Penn for this fine solution).
KEEP THE POSTS RELATED TO TECH YOU IMBECILES. THIS SITE IS NOT CALLED DAILYTECH POR NADA.
Apologies to the rest of you fine posters whom I love so dearly and often learn from. Now I just sit back and wait for the venom, which will obviously come only from the anal cancer candidates. And you can call me....Mr Joshua.




"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997

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