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  (Source: Jason Mick/DailyTech LLC)
Intel is Google's "new intern", while Wintel is on life support

"We're going to make sure all of your operating systems run best on Intel clients," Intel Corp. (INTC) SVP Kirk Skaugen proclaimed during his company's Wednesday morning keynote at the 2013 Intel Developer Forum (IDF).

I. Intel is no Longer Focused on Microsoft

But during its keynote Apple, Inc. (AAPL) (maker of OS X and Macs) was only mentioned in passing, as were "other Linux" providers (i.e. Red Hat Inc. (RHT)).  Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) veteran WIndows OS did receive quite a bit of the attention -- but less than half of Intel's OS-specific time focused on Windows (my estimated would be about a third of it did).

Who Intel seemed most enthused about -- and who it spent the most time talking about -- was Google Inc. (GOOG).  To be fair, Wednesday morning was mobile minded as the major announcement was Bay Trail's launch (the latest tablet/laptop Atom platform).  But that said, Intel seemed neutral to at times accusative when addressing its long time "spouse" -- Microsoft -- while greedily eyeing the world's most used operating system, Android and its new laptop cousin, Chrome OS.

My, how much has changed in nine months.

OS support
Intel itself from the struggling Windows platform.

At the 2013 Consumer Electronic Show (CES) Intel talked a bit about Android, but it was more of a side show.  The main event was Windows 8, and Intel seemed deeply commited to Microsoft.  I wrote at the time:

Arguably the most important, but relatively underdiscussed single story at the 2013 Consumer Electronics Show can be expressed in a single word -- "solidarity".  Whether it was Intel Corp. (INTCpushing customers towards touch-friendly devices or companies like Hewlett-Packard Comp. (HPQ) and Lenovo Group, Ltd. (HKG:0992pushingWindows 8 hybrids/laptop designs, everyone was standing firmly behind Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) embattled Windows 8 operating system.

But what once seemed a firm commitment to "Wintel" union, is today on the rocks.

II. Windows 8 Woes

Windows 8 has flopped hard.  Its failure arguably cost Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer his job.  PC sales have seen their worst percentage drop in history.

To Microsoft's credit, it's not merely Windows 8 that's driven this slump.  The market as a whole has recoiled form expensive products.  Apple shockingly saw its iPad sales fall for the first time on a year-to-year basis since the device's launch.

But one company has emerged looking like a giant-killer -- Google Inc. (GOOG).

Google
Google is conquering the world and Intel is eager to hitch its wagon with this winner.
 

According to International Data Corp. (IDC) and Gartner Inc. (IT), the two largest market research firms covering the electronics industry, nearly two out of every three tablets and four out of every five smartphones sold are now Android devices.  
Android
Android enjoys dominant leads in the tablet and smartphone markets.

What's more Google scored a shocking sales success with its largely laptop-aimed Chrome OS -- despite having just a handful of Chrome OS devices on the market.  Chrome OS devices have seized the top two laptop sales spots on Amazon.com, Inc.'s (AMZN) site displacing popular Windows laptops, and Chrome OS devices reportedly accounted for 1 out of every 5 ~$300 laptop purchased in Q2 2013.

III. New Windows Chief Stumbles as She Tries to Defend Windows 8

At the IDF keynote the new Windows President, Tami Reller -- the marketing "brain" behind arguably the biggest marketing flop in Windows history (Windows 8) -- was trotted out on stage.  But when Mr. Skaugen addressed her, his tone seemed icy -- almost accusative.  

"Tell us about what [Microsoft is] doing to ... drive Windows 8 demand," he asked Ms. Reller.

The response from the new Microsoft chief stumbled over here words at times, and delivered an extremely weak response.  She said that Windows 8.1's builds had been downloaded by "2.1 million users" worldwide, but failed to clarify whether those numbers were for the public Release Preview or the Release to Manufacturing.  Either way the numbers aren't very impressive; by contrast eight million users are estimated to have downloaded Windows 7's test builds.

Tami Reller
New Windows chief Tami Reller struggled in her IDF appearance.

Ms. Reller also asserted that August saw the "most activations of Windows 8" of any month yet, while, declining to give numbers.  That's also not terribly impressive -- given that August is the big back-to-school shopping month, and always sees higher sales.  What is more noteworthy is that June and July are rumored to have seen very slow Windows 8 sales.  By contrast, by that point in its life cycle Windows 7 was firing on all cylinders.

Ms. Reller also said:

[Windows 8.1] gives a chance for Windows to be familiar again.  There's a lot of innovation coming to Windows 8.1.  We are seeing demand for Windows 8.1 devices in the real world… We see that Windows 8.1 is a real milestone to take that forward.

She might has well have stopped at the first sentence.  After all, Windows 8.1 has little to do with "innovation", and much more to do with unrolling, amending, or otherwise undoing the "innvoation" of Windows 8.  Returning to your old path is many things -- "a lot of innovation" is not one of them.  Most humorous, it seems Ms. Reller's comment admits that Windows 8 was "unfamiliar" to consumers.

A weak allusion to the upcoming 2014 Windows XP end of life, might have been the single most convincing thing Ms. Reller said.  After all, if Microsoft is forcing consumers off its aging but popular platform, they have to go somewhere, certainly.  And some of them might go to Windows 8.1 right?

Intel, for its part, was content to beat around the bush, not-so-subtly alluding to Windows 8's embarassingly bad sales, which drove Intel to a major decline in profit.

IV. Intel is Crazy for Android

If the mood was hostile and terse in the Wintel household, it was puppy love when Microsoft stepped out and started talking about its passion for Google.  Intel proudly boasted of its "open source experience", with Intel software and services VP, bragging, "Intel has been one of the leading contributors to linux in the market place."

Intel on Android
Intel has put a lot of work into a fast Android implementation.

Intel's outlined how its deep commitment to Android began with a lot of work to make sure the Davlik runtime ran optimally on Intel's chips.  Next, Intel talked about how its new NDK allows Android developers to write optimized C or C++ routines for Android apps to boost the performance of critical chunks of code.

And Intel's Google passion didn't stop with Android.

V. Haswell Chromebooks Incoming

Next up Sundar Pichai -- Google's head of Chrome OS and (new) head of Android -- joined Mr. Fisher to talk Chrome OS.  On stage he revealed Toshiba Corp. (TYO:6502) a Chrome OS virgin, would be using Haswell in its first Chromebook (Chrome OS laptop).  He also announced new Haswell Chromebooks were coming from Acer Inc. (TPE:2353) and Hewlett-Packard Comp. (HPQ).  A new Chromebox (Chrome OS portable desktop machine) was also announced from Chrom first-timer ASUSTek Computer, Inc. (TPE:2357), which it billed had "zero maintenance management" and suggested might be perfect for a call center.

Haswell Chromebooks
Several new Chromebooks were announced.

"[Haswell is available] at  hugely disruptive pricepoints in the market [and is a] tipping point" for Intel, Mr. Pichai cheered.  He also boasted, "Both android and chrome represent two open platforms, two large platforms built from the ground up."

In one of his most interesting remarks, the Chrome OS chief revealed that 5,000 school districts- - or approximately 1 in 5 school districts across the U.S. -- had adopted Google's Chrome OS.  This  could prove a crucial foothold for Google in 2014 at it expands its war on Windows.

Android enhancements
Intel has also been tuning up its Chrome OS implementation.

A report from Avast claims that Microsoft's decision to finally axe Windows XP support may adversely affect up to 96 percent of U.S. school districts, which still make heavy use of the elderly operating system.  As Microsoft burns those districts by refusing to support its product with critical security updates, Microsoft may see these efforts backfire and see school districts flee to Chrome OS -- an affordable platform they already seem relatively fond of.

VI. Google's Android Chief Puts Intel Exec in Their Place With Intern Hat

At IDF 2013 Intel has sent a clear message that Wintel is not dead, but that it is on life support.

While Intel's mobile lineup for the fall will feature a heavy mix of Windoows ultrabooks, budget laptops, 2-in-1s, and tablets, it will also feature several Chromebooks and numerous Android tablets/2-in-1s.  No longer is Intel content to back Microsoft unconditionally.

It's willing to hang on a bit longer, but IDF made it clear that Intel has a passion for a new OS maker -- Google -- and that if Microsoft fails to perform, Intel will be more than happy to target its wares at Google's customers.

During his chat with Doug Fisher, Sundar Pichai presented Intel VP Dough Fisher with one of the iconic colorful Google propeller hats.  

Sundar Pichai
Sundar Pichai presents Intel SVP Kirk Skaugen with a Google "intern hat".  Mr. Skaugen compliantly put it on a few moments later.

"We make new hires wear it on their first day," he quipped.  What might be a mere gag at first glance took on a deeper, more embarassing for Intel, given its struggles with its old partner -- Microsoft.  It might be embarassing -- perhaps even a bit humiliating -- but even after that comment Mr. Fisher put on Google's hat.

The gesture seemed deeply symbolic.  It was if to say Intel -- long relishing the role as top dog in the markets it sold to -- realized it had finally made a devestating mistake after decades of good choices.  It picked the wrong horse in the mobile operating system race (Microsoft) and it was now humbly swallowing its pride, embracing the role of lowly Google "new hire".  Intel may yet be Google's best hardware partner, but it will have to work hard to get there.  Google is willing to give it that chance, but it wasn't above reminding its new partner of its place in this relationship.


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Join the club.
By retrospooty on 9/12/2013 12:16:21 PM , Rating: 4
"Intel Distances Itself From Windows 8, Microsoft"

There is alot of that going around ;)




RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 12:42:30 PM , Rating: 3
Now let's just hope Microsoft gets the hint and improves Windows 9. Let's see a start menu, aero glass, and significant improvements to metro to better fit desktop (windowable, fitting the desktop theme, etc). Then we'll be back to where they should have been when Win8 launched :)


RE: Join the club.
By p05esto on 9/12/2013 12:55:40 PM , Rating: 5
Or just stick with Win7 for the next 5 years.... why not? Will I miss something? Will my Photoshop and web browser stop working?


RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 1:01:18 PM , Rating: 3
Well that's what I'm saying. We need a new OS that is strictly a superset of Windows 7, not something that tries to be different. Done properly, the new OS should be objectively better than Windows 7.


RE: Join the club.
By Spuke on 9/12/2013 7:27:43 PM , Rating: 3
Or you can just use Windows 7.


RE: Join the club.
By AntDX316 on 9/13/13, Rating: -1
RE: Join the club.
By tamalero on 9/13/2013 10:13:18 AM , Rating: 2
That is a dumb statement regarding antivirus, as almost every single computer sold by the mayor pc manufactures.. always had some sort of antivirus package. This isnt something new.
Like Dell married with McAfee..
and others with Norton.


RE: Join the club.
By sorry dog on 9/13/2013 11:18:09 AM , Rating: 3
While bloatware is annoying, it is a minor issue that moderately tech inclined folks can deal with.

The most major issue of all is that Windows 8 is a turd.

It's not familiar to people who are comfortable with XP to 7, and that is a major product flaw. More than ever consumers want an interface that is easy to understand and intuitive; Apple's successes are based in part on that theory. Change for the sake of being different is finally being recognized as the time wasting BS that it is. After 2 hours with my new Win 8 laptop, I literally said out loud, "I don't have time for this shit."... I went back to my older laptop and haven't opened the new one since.


RE: Join the club.
By ShaolinSoccer on 9/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Join the club.
By dtprodromosr on 9/21/2013 12:06:53 PM , Rating: 2
"It's not familiar to people who are comfortable with XP to 7, and that is a major product flaw. More than ever consumers want an interface that is easy to understand and intuitive"

Sorry to say, but I ll say it, big BS.
As I 've tried w8 when it was a trial version, I just say I couldn't really care less about the interface. So much were it annoying the mass hypnosis of the voodoo puppets, I myself couldn't concentrate on the really new features of the platform. And get over it...
Microsoft failed because the mobile ( lol) and the google -apple had a momentum and couldn't actually do anything about it.

The "failure" of Ballmer was not that he didn't do his homework, but that he was not a Gates or a Jobs that would turn heaven and hell upside down in order to do his will.
As for the shareholders and management I am very kind to call them corporate dorks, that can't see past their profits and lossses and will never be able to understand that their role in the running of a company is less significant than they think.


RE: Join the club.
By robinthakur on 9/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Join the club.
By InsGadget on 9/13/2013 11:29:50 AM , Rating: 3
OSx has been out for 12 years. Windows 8 has been out for 10 months. Windows 8's userbase is 150% as large as OSx'.

There will be 318 million PC sales this year.

But yes, keep telling yourself OSx is winning.


RE: Join the club.
By jonm78 on 9/13/2013 9:24:54 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
PC sales have dropped hard because most of the new PC's are loaded with bloatware.


I would say that it's due to tablet sales and smart phone sales.


RE: Join the club.
By captainBOB on 9/13/2013 9:35:02 PM , Rating: 2
You can also just use Windows XP.

Go ahead, use Windows XP, your web browser and games don't stop working right?


RE: Join the club.
By Mike Acker on 9/17/2013 8:59:35 AM , Rating: 2
where msft missed the boat is in failing to recognize that the o/s should be transparent to the user

the user might like a touch-pad interface or he or she might prefer a keyboard/mouse type setup.

user's choice

that would help, but: you cannot build a castle upon a foundation of sand. windows has inherent security issues related to its original designs and complexity that cannot be repaired. msft would do far better to focus on porting its flagship products the Linux. forget win/os it was a bad dream.


RE: Join the club.
By kyuuketsuki on 9/12/2013 1:02:14 PM , Rating: 3
What the heck would that do for Windows in the mobility market? You know, what IDF is all about. Windows 8 is great on tablets.


RE: Join the club.
By kyuuketsuki on 9/12/2013 1:03:14 PM , Rating: 2
I should say, what the particular portion of IDF that Mick is picking apart and drawing wild conclusions from was about.


RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 1:47:05 PM , Rating: 5
It is great on tablets, but their current strategy is alienating their primary userbase. They need the two platforms to work together, but in its current state it feels like one OS that is fighting with itself.


RE: Join the club.
By GTVic on 9/12/13, Rating: 0
RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 9:56:19 PM , Rating: 2
What are you talking about? I don't think I've ever made a related comment in any DT article ever...


RE: Join the club.
By OoklaTheMok on 9/13/2013 1:03:14 AM , Rating: 1
Give Windows 8.1 an honest try when it is released. You can set it up to be much like Win7 if you'd like, though with the app list instead of the start menu when you click the start button.

You can boot to the desktop, go straight to the app list instead of the start screen, sort the app list so that desktop apps are listed first and modern apps will be the least visible.

Overall, 8.1 is a much more refined version of 8, with more configurability, and addresses most of the concerns of desktop only users.


RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/13/2013 1:30:21 AM , Rating: 2
I've used Windows 8.1. It's a good OS, and I think 8 is too, I just think that it would be way better with the changes I mentioned. Those are sort of the big ones that everyone complains about, and I think it's commonly agreed upon. The key to my success with Windows 8 is simply that I never actually use the start menu for anything other than a quick search to open something like ntoepad or calculator, and I've disabled all the metro apps. For the most part the experience is nearly identical to Win7 for me.


RE: Join the club.
By w8gaming on 9/13/2013 5:24:32 AM , Rating: 2
The problem I have with Windows 8.1 is that I am not sure I can upgrade to it on my 64Gb Windows 8 tablet. Maybe I could if I have to delete off many programs that I have already installed. But really I wish vendors should stop offering W8 tablet with small storage size and make it at least 128Gb at least. The increased in storage size is really not that much more expensive compare to the other components that already went into the the material costs. Of course, do not charge another $100+ just because the storage increases by 64Gb, SSD or mSata is not that expensive nowadays.

And then we hear vendor releasing Windows Pro tablet with 32Gb storage, think about what will happen when MS releases Windows 8.2


RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/13/2013 11:20:46 AM , Rating: 2
Actual this is perfect. Windows 8.1 actually has a much smaller footprint than windows 8.


RE: Join the club.
By Argon18 on 9/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 2:33:53 PM , Rating: 2
yeah unfortunately I find Windows to still be far superior to all of the things you listed. No thanks.


RE: Join the club.
By StevoLincolnite on 9/12/2013 6:23:33 PM , Rating: 3
I'm also a gamer.

Sure Linux has Wine and Linux support in Steam... But there are still thousands of games from the last couple of decades not on the platform!

I also won't run Windows 8 on my Desktop though, love it on my tablet and phone however.


RE: Join the club.
By spaced_ on 9/13/2013 5:42:17 AM , Rating: 3
Same. The only drawcard windows has left is gaming.

Game industry development practices are getting better (less windows-only orientated), only a matter of time before windows and directx can be ditched.


RE: Join the club.
By nikon133 on 9/12/2013 5:41:09 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning.

I remember when Nokia Lumia 900 was best selling smartphone on Amazon. Actually both blue and black versions were in top 3, if I recall. Real runaway success.

That really did well for Lumia 900, didn't it?

I'd really wait for Google to release some sales figures - last time I checked they were conspicuously quiet about that - before I'd announce age of Linux. But hey, that's probably only me not wanting to make a Muppet of myself.


RE: Join the club.
By bryanbrun on 9/12/2013 6:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
"But this news that ChromeOS taking the top two laptop sales spots on Amazon..."

This isn't news. Chrome laptops have been the top sellers on Amazon for 1 year or more.


RE: Join the club.
By OoklaTheMok on 9/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Join the club.
By haukionkannel on 9/12/2013 3:17:51 PM , Rating: 2
Well we allready know that win9 is win8 with Aero Glass Tiles, so we will get Metro with transparent tiles... And Win10 will be more cloud based version of that. And that info is from MS, so it should be guite realiable.

Hopefully there will be improvements to desktop usage... Really good desktop size scaling would be really nice when 4K monitors are coming... actually that feature is needed allso in win8 and soon...


RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 4:12:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well we allready know that win9 is win8 with Aero Glass Tiles, so we will get Metro with transparent tiles... And Win10 will be more cloud based version of that. And that info is from MS, so it should be guite realiable.


Hard to tell, but I'm going to assume this is heavy sarcasm?


RE: Join the club.
By Reclaimer77 on 9/12/2013 4:59:39 PM , Rating: 5
What I want from Windows 9 is the full Aero glass desktop back, with Start Menu. I want all the under the hood improvements from Windows 8, and then some. Like the file transfer upgrade etc etc. Add any new features you want, knock yourself out!

Buuuut, Metro simply CANNOT exist as a forced full-screen UI. For all the reasons stated a million times by millions of people. This Jeckle and Hyde UI dichotomy simply MUST go away.

Why can't Metro and the App store be just like any other program in Windows? Where I can choose to use or not use, where I can manage it's preferences and - most importantly - choose my own windows size for!!??

Can anyone answer me that?


RE: Join the club.
By Da W on 9/12/2013 2:15:37 PM , Rating: 5
Problem is, if the world dumps windows and moves to android (and sony ps4 for that mather), the world will also move away from intel.

Why in hell after 5 years of ARM inside should i buy an Intel android device? Intel won't charge the same price as Qualcomm, or Nvidia. Not all android apps work on x86. Plus, it seems an ARM tablet is good enough, else people would have continued to buy windows laptop and desktops. Why would they need more performance if they dumped performing desktop in the first place?

Its a hard thing for me. I was born with a Commodore 64 in my hands. I discovered Simcity and Dune2 with a 386. I built my first pc with a Celeron 300A. I remember when 3Dfx died and we had to move to Nvidia. I remember the Athlon days. When we chatted over mIrc or ICQ. I was there in the glorious days of Windows 7, when the PC finally became what it should. I saw the PC evolution from start to... finish? May be we'll see the end of PCs after all. People connected with phones and tablets, a google account, a hefty phone bill and the NSA witnessing our every move. But Hey, the tablet is below 200$, to hell with my liberty!!!!


RE: Join the club.
By Argon18 on 9/12/2013 2:29:50 PM , Rating: 4
It's true, glad you see it for what it is. A computer used to be an electronic "locker" where you stored all your files. Documents, photos, music, financial records, contact lists, calendars, etc. You and you alone had exclusive access and control.

The (disturbing) trend nowadays however, is to treat the PC (or other device) as a thin client, with all your IP stored on Company X's servers. They lure consumers in with convenience features (stream your music to any device!), and lock them in with insane terms of use agreements that nobody bothers to read. You're literally signing away your rights when you sign up for this cloud nonsense. Taking all your digital "posessions", and giving someone else custody and control over them. No Thanks!!


RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 2:36:45 PM , Rating: 2
No a computer is much more than an "electronic locker." Sure you can keep your stuff on it in electronic format, but by and wide the most valuable function of a computer is the services it provides. Yes things like streaming can be done from a central web host or server, but the primary benefit is from the local experience. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that in todays world, a computer is even less of a "locker" than what it used to be. Files are now being stored on the cloud, as the device and OS move to a service model by providing the user with apps.


RE: Join the club.
By Da W on 9/12/2013 3:13:23 PM , Rating: 4
Services...
Ordinary people browse the web. Phone/tablets can do that.
ordinary people facebook/tweet/other social media that i did not bother to discover. Phone/tablets can do that.
Ordinary people type a 1-2 page letter for Christmas and at most list their bills on excel. Phone/tablets can do that.
Ordinary people now play more and more dumb games. Phone/tablets can do that.

All is left for PC is serious gaming (try running total war on anything else) or work. Software stopped asking for more powerful hardware around 2005. People got their old PC in the basement and all of sudden, a new phone does the job, why upgrade the pc? Microsoft lost the consumer big time, and while i had hope that Windows 8 was the answer last year (and i DO like it), i was wrong.


RE: Join the club.
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 4:14:52 PM , Rating: 2
There's a difference between can (being able) to do something, and doing it well. Things like checking twitter and facebook updates might work fine on a tablet, but once you get to writing papers and doing anything remotely productive, I will laugh at the person to try and do it on a phone or tablet.


RE: Join the club.
By nikon133 on 9/12/2013 6:16:53 PM , Rating: 3
Phones/tablets can browse web. However, both my Asus Transformer (Android 4) and iPad (iOS 6) still stumble across web pages they don't render correctly. And phones, I browse on them only when I don't have other option - regardless on phone screen resolution, I'm finding browsing on sub-5" screen claustrophobic at best.

If I have to type anything more than a sentence or two, I grab laptop or do it on my desktop. Typing on tablet is much poorer and more torturous experience for me.

Excel, or spreadsheets in general - typing on phone, switching between letters and numeric keyboard layouts, peeking at small screen with half of it already taken by keyboard? Yes you can, but you are having much worst experience than doing it on any laptop/desktop.

I think that dumb games are being played by people who didn't really play games before. I cannot envision scenario where more dedicated gamers will drop their Halo, Gears, Battlefield, Uncharted, Skyrim titles for Angry Birds. Actually, I will not be surprised to see a trend where casual games are encouraging more people to upgrade to more serious gaming, something they might not do without having that middle step.

Main problem for computers perceived decline is maturity of platform. Outside of hard-core gamers and demanding consumers/prosumers (HD video editing, RAW photos editing), not many home users really need anything above Core 2 Duo. Or office users, matter of fact. They will run fine Vista, 7 or 8, Office, any web browser, email client, image browser, accounting software... you name it... just fine. But this does not necessarily mean people are using computers less - it only means they have less reasons to replace what they already have.

But same trend will follow smartphone and tablet markets. Only faster, because technology is advancing faster nowadays. Some elements of mobile technology are already reaching saturation - how far beyond 1080p can smartphone screens go before it really becomes irrelevant? If it already isn't? True you can keep pushing SoC performance, storage... but at some point, further advancements will become irrelevant to majority, and people will start using their phones not 1 or 2 but 4 or more years, as long as phone is functioning.


RE: Join the club.
By w8gaming on 9/12/2013 7:37:54 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 could be the answer if Microsoft has sold RT at $200 and Surface Pro at $500-$600. Yes, that would leave pretty almost no margin for profit, but in this new world order when Google is selling their tablet at $200, it shows that you need to practically give away your OS and not earning much from hardware to be a dominant leader.

Consumers will always vote with the wallet. The old days of getting $100 profit for selling the OS is nice, but time has changed.


RE: Join the club.
By JediJeb on 9/12/2013 3:41:20 PM , Rating: 3
Actually that is what Argon18 said, it was an "electronic locker" that worked very well, but now we are moving away from that to these "cloud" based apps.

I myself have no files stored in "the cloud", nor do I depend on one device to do everything. I hate the one device does all idea, just as I hated TVs with build in DVD or VCRs, because if one device breaks, the others become useless too. I always thought it looked dumb to have a TV with built in VCR, connected to another VCR because the built in one was broken. Now days, if a phone quits working, so does your music player and your organizer and your web browser, and .....

What happens when you need to get a project done and you lose connection to the internet as happens very often where I live? How do you access your data when it is located somewhere out in "the cloud" when that happens? Just how safe is your data out there, if someone can crack your password they have access to your data from anywhere, if they happen to crack my password, they also have to have physical access to my computer to use it.

I am not anti-technology, I actively embrace technology, I am just against giving up control and access to my personal data for a little convenience.


RE: Join the club.
By Piiman on 9/14/2013 11:59:00 AM , Rating: 2
"What happens when you need to get a project done and you lose connection to the internet as happens very often where I live? How do you access your data when it is located somewhere out in "the cloud"

You drive your ass to McDonalds and use their WiFi.


RE: Join the club.
By Piiman on 9/14/2013 12:00:03 PM , Rating: 2
oh and you also keep a copy locally.


RE: Join the club.
By Piiman on 9/14/2013 11:55:13 AM , Rating: 2
Not that big of a deal if you know what to put in the cloud and what not to put there.


RE: Join the club.
By geekman1024 on 9/12/2013 9:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I saw the PC evolution from start to... finish?


Correction:
I saw the PC evolution from start to... No Start Button.


RE: Join the club.
By milktea on 9/13/2013 8:23:48 PM , Rating: 1
If Intel wants a piece, they'll most likely get it. Actually, they'll get a whole big chunk of it. Intel has the advantage of R&D and FAB all in house. Intel has the $$$ to go full force in R&D. Very soon Intel would surpass ARM in both power and performance. By that time, ARM would just be like AMD.


wooo, hold on INTEL
By concernedreader on 9/12/2013 1:23:14 PM , Rating: 5
Boy, that's the pot calling the kettle black. The market shifts to tablets, Intel doesn't have a tablet chip ready, MS retaliates by porting their OS to ARM. Intel tries to make mobile chip for cell phones but so far has been unable to win contracts and now blames MS for their failure? Time to dump my Intel stock. They should have had a bay trail processor out in 2011. If they want to sell more tablets, make a decent chip to power them. Falling on the Chrome laptop sword is stupid. Convertible bay trail tablet/laptop devices are where it's at. MS should have said to Intel - "hey we are trying, just make the bloody mobile chips and the market will come"




RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By troysavary on 9/12/2013 1:39:12 PM , Rating: 4
Exactly. Intel made the Atom and pretty much sat on it for years because they were afraid of cannibalising their higher margin chips. Now they are just butthurt that MS ported Windows to ARM.


RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By inighthawki on 9/12/2013 1:48:32 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, so it makes perfect sense that in order to punish Microsoft they are aligning themselves with quite possibly the world largest user of ARM technology...


RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By w8gaming on 9/13/2013 5:35:39 AM , Rating: 2
But Microsoft is also refusing to create a Surface model based using Bay Trail, even though a platform such as this will have equivalent battery running time as iOS or Android tablets, and has the added advantages for full x86 compatibilities. Even other vendors are making such a device, while Microsoft is unwilling to do so. They rather try their luck with Tegra4 platform, which many vendors have abandoned. The whole situation does not make sense, or is it Microsoft has lost common sense?


RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By Mint on 9/16/2013 7:40:06 PM , Rating: 2
Surface is a high end brand aiming for maybe 10% market share at best. Leave Bay Trail tablets to the OEMs that specialize in high volume cost minimization.

If MS can optimize a Haswell platform as well as Apple did with the Air 11, then their job is complete.


RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By bryanbrun on 9/12/2013 6:47:14 PM , Rating: 2

"Convertible bay trail tablet/laptop devices are where it's at. "

Wrong. Convertible tablet/laptops are not selling.

People do not want finger grease all over their laptops screens.

People do not want to run productivity software on 9 inch screens.

Microsoft is pursuing an imaginary market with this convertible tablet/laptop strategy. Boy, I only hope that Microsoft continues to pursue markets that do not exist.

Microsoft is committing the world's most public display of corporate suicide.


RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By geekman1024 on 9/12/2013 9:45:32 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
People do not want finger grease all over their laptops screens.


You know, you can apply an anti-fingerprint screen protector to your tablet screen/touchscreen. I had one on my smartphone and it has been my McDonald. Oh, that means I'm lovin' it.


RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By bryanbrun on 9/13/2013 12:32:54 PM , Rating: 2

So the success of Microsoft's laptop/tablet strategy is riding on the sale of 3rd party finger grease protectors?

Fail.

Fail.

Fail.


RE: wooo, hold on INTEL
By w8gaming on 9/13/2013 6:11:05 AM , Rating: 1
Like other poster has stated, an anti-finger print screen protector works wonder. I have one on my W8 tablet. Also, using a stylus most of the time leave no finger grease either.

Granted that you do need some good eyesight on 10" screen and full HD desktop mode. But not impossible.

It is always far too easy to claim a convertible tablet market does not exist. In fact, many people has expressed interests in this kind of tablet but thought the prices are too high. So it is a matter of making a tablet at the correct price point, not that it does not exist.


What is the future?
By CaedenV on 9/12/2013 12:41:12 PM , Rating: 2
As much as I enjoy Win8 I can concede that it may not be 'the future' of mainstream computing devices, so it makes perfect sense to start looking for other markets to go after, but at the same time I do not see Android being the future either (at lest not in it's current form of bugs, bloat, malware, and fragmentation).

Surely something more like Ubuntu or Chrome OS has a better chance at being a good long-term productivity platform which could be enjoyed by both business and home users like Windows was. I am using the win8.1 CP on my computer at home, and it does improve things, but it will not improve things to the satisfaction of those who hate win8.

MS really needs to make some big changes, and quickly. They need to understand that profit is no longer in the sale of the OS, but in the sale and support of the ecosystem. Sure well windows for $40-50 to cover costs. That is fine and appropriate. But the idea of paying $120 for an OEM copy of Windows (or much more for an upgrade or full retail copy) every 3 years is a bit nuts.
Slash the price, get market saturation, push those numbers to app devs to make more metro apps, enable the sale of desktop apps in the app store, continue to push out usability upgrades, and watch Windows rise to dominance again. What money will be lost in pure Windows sale revenues will be dwarfed in app sale and free-app add revenues, especially when they start getting apps as useful as desktop apps, or start providing desktop apps directly.




RE: What is the future?
By mjv.theory on 9/12/2013 1:54:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Surely something more like Ubuntu or Chrome OS has a better chance at being a good long-term productivity platform which could be enjoyed by both business and home users like Windows was .


I think the paradigm has changed, or at least, is in the process of changing. The way it "was", is not necessarily the way is will be, or should be, or has to be. Ubiquitous personal computing is hardly much more than 20 years old and that applies to less than half the world's population. In fact it could be viewed that "truly" ubiquitous computing is at least 20 years away. I think there will be a few more twists and turns along the way. It's not simply a reboot of the system, where we carry on the way is "was", but with M$ replaced by Google. Something quite different will emerge and I don't think any of us, including the main players, are quite sure what it will be.


RE: What is the future?
By Bateluer on 9/12/2013 2:53:10 PM , Rating: 2
So the future of desktop computing on Windows will be Metro apps, 1 or 2 per screen at a time, with some screen space for each devoted to ads? Sounds . . . great.

I'll be seeing you guys on Linux Mint. Or ChromeOS if they get that thing together. Sold my Samsung ARM Chromebook months ago because it was basically a paperweight.


RE: What is the future?
By mjv.theory on 9/12/2013 4:14:42 PM , Rating: 4
Just to prove your point: I said bye bye to Windoze a few years back, with no regrets.

This post was made using Linux Mint.


RE: What is the future?
By Piiman on 9/14/2013 12:12:33 PM , Rating: 2
Well that's odd. Your Linux Mint post looks just like a MS Windows post! AMAZING!


Chromebook?
By SpartanJet on 9/12/2013 12:44:42 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly I don't know anyone who would buy a chromebook and I don't know anyone who own one. Tablets with Android I can can understand but if I buy a notebook its going to have Windows on it.




RE: Chromebook?
By Rukkian on 9/12/2013 2:16:00 PM , Rating: 2
I dont own one yet, doesnt mean I will not try one out in the future. You may be one of the people that never want change, but if something better, cheaper actually comes around, I am willing to give it a shot.


RE: Chromebook?
By kmmatney on 9/12/2013 3:45:50 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. Might as well get a tablet if you are going to buy a Chromebook, or just buy a cheap sub-$400 laptop with Windows. The Chromebook just seems like a weird product to me - like Apple making an MacBook that only runs iOS, or Microsoft making a laptop that only ran ModernUI. You can do things with it, but it's not quite there as a workhorse machine.


RE: Chromebook?
By bryanbrun on 9/12/2013 6:51:40 PM , Rating: 3

Chromebooks have been the top sellers on Amazon for a very long time. Millions of people are buying them.

My mother-in-law owns one, and guess what? There are no longer any windows support phone calls, or worrying about malware.

Why would access your banking information from a windows machine? A machine which your kids have on? You might as well just hand your money over to the Russian mafia.


RE: Chromebook?
By Piiman on 9/14/2013 12:17:12 PM , Rating: 1
"There are no longer any windows support phone calls, or worrying about malware.

Why would access your banking information from a windows machine? A machine which your kids have on? You might as well just hand your money over to the Russian mafia. "


Well I have done banking on my PC (with kids even) for 20 years and no Russian has yet to get into it.

You may also want to rethink that no Malware thing.


RE: Chromebook?
By troysavary on 9/20/2013 2:29:51 PM , Rating: 2
Every time I boot up a program on my Windows devices, the Russian mafia shows up and we have a few vodka shots together.


Clickbait Journalism
By kyuuketsuki on 9/12/2013 1:01:00 PM , Rating: 5
So Intel spends a third of its time at a conference that's specificially about mobility talking about Microsoft products, and the rest of the time talking about other mobility operating systems and products, and the conclusion is that Intel's relationship with Microsoft is "on the rocks"? That's quite a leap of logic there, Mick.

Obviously Intel is trying to get into mobility, and currently Android is a bigger player in mobility than Microsoft. That's about all I (and any reasonable person) could take from IDF.




RE: Clickbait Journalism
By kyuuketsuki on 9/12/2013 1:04:42 PM , Rating: 2
Gah, sorry, that first sentence should read: So Intel spends a third of its time *during a portion of IDF specifically about mobility* talking about Microsoft products...


RE: Clickbait Journalism
By kleinma on 9/12/2013 1:37:16 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, this is just like when Intel was bailing on Microsoft to make CPUs for Apple.

Intel is a chip company, they will do business with whatever hardware and software vendors want to buy their products.

I use Windows primarily, but I still think it would be stupid for Intel as a company to ignore other products, especially since just about all those other products currently use ARM, which is clearly a much bigger threat to Intel than AMD now is.

It isn't like Microsoft has all the love in the world for Intel either... they did release ARM versions of Windows afterall. That probably would not have been needed if Intel was faster to the table with lower powered chips.


RE: Clickbait Journalism
By McGaiden on 9/12/2013 5:29:59 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah it was a pretty shitty article.
But coverage of IDF 2013 is relatively scarce, so you read what you can find. It's just a lot of sensationalism.

One more thing I noticed is how often Mick just jumbled basic things together, like calling Intel 'Microsoft' or mixing up the VP's names or sometimes not even introducing them before suddenly dropping someone's last name.

Just a minor disaster of a writer.

At any rate, kinda funny with Pichai's subtle dig at Intel. But to somehow think that Intel is the 'junior' in the relationship is laughable. The market will go to whom has the best SoC's and if Intel will have them, the market will go there.
The notion that Google can lord over the chipmanufacturers is just hilariously stupid and just another reason why you should not take the writer, Mick, very seriously.

That said, I do look forward towards 2014.
Intel's finally back on track after a long absence. Qualcomm will carry on on their previous wins and Tegra 5 seems like a lot better product than Tegra 4, particularly on the GPU side, and it will come in Q1 2014 instead of during the end of the year like it's predecessor.


BULLS*IT
By damianrobertjones on 9/12/2013 4:50:16 PM , Rating: 4
"IDF 2013: Intel Distances Itself From Windows 8, Microsoft"

Of all the flame bait articles I've read this year this one, possibly, has the most bull ever. How many times has it been pointed out that the PC sales drop was NOTHING TO DO WITH WINDOWS 8.

I won't go on any further other than to say: I usually like Jason's articles as they take the Michael but this one takes the P*ss.

(I hope you get the posts you want)




RE: BULLS*IT
By bryanbrun on 9/12/2013 6:57:14 PM , Rating: 1

Chrome PC sales are going up.

Apple PC sales have declined but have not plunged off a cliff as Windows 8 sales have.

People don't like to look at, or use, the Metro interface. It is widely acclaimed as an utter piece of sh*t.

Learn to accept this.


RE: BULLS*IT
By captainBOB on 9/13/2013 9:37:58 PM , Rating: 2
What cliff? Windows 8 sales are steadily increasing, not falling off.

Your emotional response to software is showing, zip it up.

It will never achieve the success of Windows 7 for sure, but the exaggeration is hardly necessary.


RE: BULLS*IT
By OoklaTheMok on 9/13/2013 12:53:57 AM , Rating: 2
"...while greedily eyeing the world's most used operating system, Android..."

In what universe is Android the worlds most used operating system?

Either it was a terribly worded statement by Mick, or he is just delusional. Based solely just on worldwide browser usage, Windows 8 beats Android. So when compared to all Windows versions, Android does not stand a chance.


RE: BULLS*IT
By geekman1024 on 9/13/2013 2:39:16 AM , Rating: 2
Mick lives in a tablet size world...


New alliance
By geekman1024 on 9/12/2013 9:30:48 PM , Rating: 2
so, what should we call the new alliance?

Gootel?

Andtel?




RE: New alliance
By NanoTube1 on 9/13/2013 2:27:52 AM , Rating: 2
ingoo
intoid


RE: New alliance
By geekman1024 on 9/13/2013 2:53:59 AM , Rating: 2
or maybe we change the name according to Android's code name, like:

Cuptel, Dontel(Don't tell?), Ecltel, Frotel, Gingertel (I would suggest Gintel, but that's been taken), Honeytel, Icetel, Jellytel and Kittel.

Anyway, couldn't find the name for A & B Android.


Windows 8 isn't alone
By dgingerich on 9/12/2013 7:23:44 PM , Rating: 3
The trouble for Windows 8 isn't alone. Windows Server 2012 also has some serious issues.

First off, new features:

The new Resilient File System (ReFS) has turned out to be not so resilient after all. There have been some major troubles for the new file system, and no repair tools. Microsoft claims they aren't needed. Dozens of corporations have lost minor file repositories because of Admins who pushed for using the new file system.

The new Hyper-V, and client Hyper-V, have some serious stability issues as well. Certain new feature have caused some virtual machines to be corrupted beyond repair, and restores from previous versions have been impossible to Hyper-V 2012 hosts. Admins have had to backstep to 2008 R2 to get some of their VMs back up.

Also, the new data deduplication feature does indeed deduplicate data with great efficiency, however, file corruption seems to be a common occurrence, possibly even constant. Of the 22 tests I have run, I have not had a set of data that did not have at least one file with empty contents after the deduplication process has run. I suggest you avoid this feature completely.

Now, old features:

The new version of DHCP has cause some major issues for small businesses who have migrated to Server 2012. It seems at times the DHCP server will lag in response to DHCP requests, upwards of 10 minutes, before it sends a response. Many machines will time out and use a 169.254 address, including Windows 7 but not Windows 8, before the request is granted. Apparently, a mechanism was built into Windows 8 where it keeps the DHCP address it had before a reboot until the DHCP server responds, and doesn't time out the response for much longer than other operating systems. Windows 7 and Windows XP machines will just kick down to self config addresses, and a manual "ipconfig /renew" has to be kicked off, sometimes multiple times, before they'll get an address.

DNS and AD are also having response problems in some small businesses. Authentication and name lookups will fail repeatedly for local AD requests, but forwarded requests for internet name resolution come through just fine. Users wind up being able to surf the Internet, but can't access their business files or printers.

Servers with multiple HBAs, including situations with one SAS HBA to control the local hard drive and a FC or SAS HBA for external tape and RAID storage, are sometimes just not coming up with both sets of storage. Some will hang on boot, unable to access their boot volume, and some come up with the OS, but are unable to access external storage.

Also, certain low scale, uncached SAS HBAs have had serious performance issues. In particular, Dell's H310, H200, and SAS6i/R HBAs have had transfer rates down in the single digit MB/s range, with boot times in the range of a few hours. (These are the ones I've dealt with directly in my test lab at work.)

Some older tape drives, whether through FC or SAS, have had serious performance problems as well, regardless of HBA or drivers. I've talked to the driver developers for both the tape drives and the HBAs, and they can't seem to figure out where the performance issues happen, but it is before the driver even becomes involved. However, this only happens with older formats such as LTO4 and SuperDLT. The newer tape devices, such as LTO5 and LTO6, don't seem to have any issues.

Finally, The integrated Windows Backup feature, as if hardly anyone used it anyway, does not seem to be able to do any file restores except to empty drives. This has been tested from backups to hard drives, external raid arrays, external USB hard drives, and tape drives. It can do a full restore of a failed drive, but can't restore a single file that was deleted from an existing file system.

It really bothers me how Microsoft is pushing these features so hard, and yet have had so many issues that should have been caught in the first phase of beta testing. They're really losing their edge after such a wonderful product of Windows Server 2008 R2.

My testing with Windows Server 2012 R2 has just begun, but I am already seeing the problem with vanishing HBAs.




RE: Windows 8 isn't alone
By CosmoJoe on 9/16/2013 3:51:30 PM , Rating: 2
dgingerich,
This is the biggest load of garbage FUD I have read in a long time. Major issues with Hyper-V? ReFS? Dedupe corruption? Do you even know what these technologies do? Was your post in jest or do you seriously think these things?


The Funniest Line
By ResStellarum on 9/14/2013 12:34:19 PM , Rating: 2
From Tami Reller at IDF:
quote:
We've made first party apps even easier to use with mouse and keyboard, so there's a lot of innovation


I couldn't stop laughing after listening to that on youtube. How can someone say that with a straight face?

According to Tami Reller, making Windows 8 metro apps work well with a keyboard and mouse is somehow revolutionary and innovative. God help Microsoft if that's how they really view something that should have been the first priority to start with. She all but admitted that they (MS) ignored all their desktop/laptop customers just so they could grab a slice of the tablet market. That's why people hate Microsoft. They're willing to throw all their users under a bus if it gets them a piece of a new market.




RE: The Funniest Line
By Ziggizag on 9/15/2013 4:22:03 PM , Rating: 2
IMHO - there is no need for desktop user to use Metro apps at all. With or without mouse actually.


Win 7 to Win 8
By zlandar on 9/12/2013 2:24:32 PM , Rating: 2
When better is the enemy of good.




Drop Price
By Marcelo Clementino on 9/16/2013 1:41:18 PM , Rating: 2
You can’t compete with free software, when the price of the
OS is more expensive than the device, and the pcs manufactured
still not have touch screen, because touch screen monitor cost more
than the computer or 3 Android devices. A remember Microsoft
offering innovative software with a mouse, now the Achilles Heel
Of Microsoft is that PC is a mainframe to the students and you can’t
carry one in your pocket.




Sloppy article
By CosmoJoe on 9/16/2013 3:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
Is this a tech site or the Inquirer? I have a hard time figuring that out when I read articles like this.

Clearly, Intel is trying to make inroads into the mobile sector so it shouldn't be a huge shock to anyone that they focus on non MS OS's. How this somehow means the relationship with MS is on the rocks is a huge stretch.

And as far as the vitriol towards MS and Windows 8, I agree that for desktop/laptop and non-touch use, Metro was a big change. Not letting people use the classic start menu was an annoyance.
That said, people who bash MS for trying something new and wanting to stick with Windows 7 - how do you think the market would have reacted had Windows 8 been a Win7 rehash? I for one would not like to be using a Win7 keyboard/mouse interface on a touch device. Metro makes perfect sense there. I think if anything, Microsoft was overzealous in trying to lay down Metro as a one size fits all interface. They should have left in a legacy mode for non touch devices. I think for mobile devices and tablets, the new UI is a good first attempt.




"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997














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