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We attended Intel's cooling presentation this morning.

Intel's engineer complains that Apple is more concerned about making its products pretty than fixing their overheating problems.
What can Intel do to stop companies like Apple from selling overheating designs? "Nothing", presenter says.

In the quick IDF 2011 notes category, we wanted to share a humorous exchange we had with an Intel Corp. (INTC) engineer.  Joshua Linden-Levy is a "Mechanical Pathfinding Engineer" at Intel and delivered a terrific presentation on cooling in Oak Trail, the Intel Atom platform that replaces Pine Trail.

In the presentation Mr. Linden-Levy discussed how the target temperature for laptops was 58 Celsius, according to industry standards.  Given the high temperatures long suffered by various editions of Apple, Inc.'s (AAPL) MacBook Pros, we wanted to ask him how Intel plans to keep its partners (like Apple) from violating the proposed thermal guidelines on Oak Trail and its other product lines (Apple is unlikely to use Oak Trail, but typically uses other Intel's mainstream notebook and desktop processor lines in its models).

During the Q&A session Mr. Linden-Levy acknowledged hearing about Apple's laptop thermal issues.  What can Intel do prevent partners from committing such thermal botch jobs?  "Nothing," says Mr. Linden-Levy, "[the manufacturer will] just get a bad reputation among consumers."

As we discussed the issue further he added, "Well as you know, with Apple their chief priority is always form and looks -- everything else, including cooling design is an afterthought."

We found the presenter's informed, earnest unscripted dialogue about one of his company's largest partners refreshing.

Currently the thermal problem-plagued MacBook Pro models sell for almost twice the price of comparable hardware models from ASUSTEK Computer Inc. (TPE:2357).  Of course ASUSTEK's laptops lack the special aluminum unibody -- but when that unibody can get as hot as 100 degrees Celsius, it's hardly a selling point.

To be fair, less pricey models from 
Sony Corp. (TYO:6758) and Dell, Inc. (DELLhave suffered from similar issues [1][2].  Unlike these companies, though, Apple often refuses to recall or fully patch its faulty products.


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Of course not
By B-Unit on 9/14/2011 6:40:24 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Unlike these companies, though, Apple often refuses to recall or fully patch its products.


That would be like admitting that they weren't perfect in the first place.




RE: Of course not
By chiadog on 9/14/2011 8:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
I'll eat my hat when Apple admit design flaws instead of blaming customers, or claiming it's a feature. I am pretty sure they did not design the MBP to double as a(n expensive) portable hot plate.


RE: Of course not
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 7:15:55 AM , Rating: 5
You're holding it wrong!


RE: Of course not
By rburnham on 9/15/2011 9:29:16 AM , Rating: 2
I can understand using the metal case as a heatsink, but only up to a point. When the case is hitting triple digit temperatures, that's bad for male genitals.


RE: Of course not
By ICBM on 9/15/2011 11:38:21 AM , Rating: 2
Aluminum cases don't help as much as we originally would have thought. Look at Coolermaster and Lian Li, they originally advertised since it was aluminum it would be cooler. But testing showed otherwise.


RE: Of course not
By mindless1 on 9/15/2011 7:31:53 PM , Rating: 2
It helps (some) if you use the case as a heatsink, with a good transfer junction area, not if it's just the container with mostly air conduction.


RE: Of course not
By LordSojar on 9/17/2011 7:25:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
that's bad for male genitals


Mac owners have no genitals... they produce by binary fission. Why do you think there are so many derpy Mac owners who all dress and basically look the same as well as acting the same? Give you a hint: They aren't reproducing with intelligent humans.


RE: Of course not
By darkpuppet on 9/19/2011 4:05:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
When the case is hitting triple digit temperatures, that's bad for male genitals.


I'm pretty sure that triple digit temps are bad for female genitals too.

... or pretty much any genital that doesn't belong to a fire elemental.


RE: Of course not
By fteoath64 on 9/15/2011 9:33:32 AM , Rating: 5
Apple will say "it is NOT a design flaw", it is intentional that the product has built in obsolescence!. After AppleCare expires, the machine is unlikely to last a few months longer. Just look at the stats. They encourage users to upgrade every 2-3 years hence, ensuring repeat business!. It is Job's brilliance to have world full of suckers buying their stuff.

Or else the battery dies and one has to spend plenty $$$ just to get them replaced. Yet will not last another 12 months ...

Yeah, Build-in obsolescence is their model!.


RE: Of course not
By Omega215D on 9/15/2011 11:29:39 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately that doesn't sound too far from the truth...

My 2007 white MacBook had troubles 3 months into ownership and Apple refused to acknowledge that there was a problem with my DVD drive or even replace it. It died a month later. Then the laptop got really hot and then refused to boot in 2010, meanwhile my 2007 Thinkpad T60 is still alive and kicking. Apple even had the nerve to tell me I shouldn't have been so rough with the notebook (I complained of cracking) then when I explained that the MacBook was on my desk for 80% of the time and in a well padded hardcase during travel the "Genius" says that it's meant to be portable.

My brother's year old MacBook Pro is now suffering from constant spinning circles after a security update and Apple quoted the AppleCare sales pitch then told him to shove off (not in those words but the tone).

Still, I haven't found a laptop that has a trackpad that was as nice to use as the one on the MacBook.


RE: Of course not
By B3an on 9/15/11, Rating: 0
RE: Of course not
By Omega215D on 9/15/2011 8:57:28 PM , Rating: 2
nope. I'm sticking with thinkpads and my brother would continue using his mac. The trackpad is what I miss the most about MacBooks though but for reliability it's gonna be Thinkpads or Toughbooks.


RE: Of course not
By rameshms on 9/15/2011 1:13:46 PM , Rating: 2
Blame it on user and third party software..

That's probably because the user is watching too much flash videos on youtube. It's Adobe Flash that's causing the cpu overheat..

Nothing wrong with Macbook as long as you visit html5 websites..


RE: Of course not
By B3an on 9/15/2011 4:16:53 PM , Rating: 2
LOL!

So it's Flash causing all these over heating CakBooks right? Even though on PC laptops it's bizarrely fine and does not overheat. Ever. How could this possibly be??

If a laptop overheats using ANY software it's a design flaw. Not debatable. All other WELL designed laptops do not overheat no matter what you run. And theres FAR more demanding stuff than Flash out there.

Also Flash's Stage Video which has been around since Flash 10.2 uses LESS CPU usage than HTML5 video. It's the best in class video performance. Also try running Apples own HTML5 demo's on a Macbook Air or iPad. 100% CPU usage on iPad and a frame rate lower than 10 FPS. Battery is drained in no time and heats the thing up. Yet a slower clocked Android phone can run the same stuff in Flash and hit 60 FPS. HTML5 is worser than Flash at many things. But being an Apple user i dont expect you to actually be educated with anything regarding technology.


RE: Of course not
By garagetinkerer on 9/14/2011 9:07:32 PM , Rating: 5
What else do you expect from a company who blames dropped calls on customers holding their fruity-phones wrong?


RE: Of course not
By Omega215D on 9/15/2011 11:31:08 AM , Rating: 4
Along with their smug commercials stating that if you don't have an iPhone, well you don't have an iPhone. All in a condescending tone.


RE: Of course not
By VahnTitrio on 9/15/2011 11:47:10 AM , Rating: 3
HTC/Samsung could make commercials where they make the exact same statement, with a much more positive tone. Whenever my friends ask what kind of phone I have (to which I respond Evo 3D), everyone wants to play with it for a short time. Nobody grabs an iPhone to play with it anymore. Frankly, I am glad I don't have an iPhone.


It just works
By Apone on 9/14/2011 6:40:51 PM , Rating: 4
"Apple often refuses to recall or fully patch its products."

- Not surprised at all. And where do you expect all that excess heat and hot air built up will go if there is virtually no ventilation?




RE: It just works
By lukarak on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: It just works
By spamreader1 on 9/15/2011 9:18:41 AM , Rating: 4
You've obviously never purchased one of the 5 year onsite NBD warranties from Dell then. I've had numerous laptops repaired all over the states for our workers. Next day service, no hastle other that co-ordinating with thier 3rd party companies that perform the repairs to get in touch with the person holding the broken laptop. The extra warranty cost is easily worth it over having to ship laptops off to be repaired.


RE: It just works
By krazyderek on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: It just works
By Dr of crap on 9/15/2011 10:32:41 AM , Rating: 2
Hmmmm....
I bought a Dell for my daughter at college and a Toshiba for my son at college, both of them picked the laptop they wanted. The Dell is just over three years no problems. The Toshiba 4 months and still good. My wife has a Dell error free for 3 years. Before that she had a Toshiba for 4 years no problems. I do not buy a brand, I buy what has the options I want.

Just like cars, they're all the same with options, fancy bells and whistles, you can add.

NOT ALL laptops do not have problems.


RE: It just works
By xenol on 9/15/2011 11:35:37 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
As for heat, get a cooling pad

Why?

I don't understand the point of buying a product if I need another to solve what is an easily solvable (on their end) problem. The first thing Apple can do to reduce heating issues is to stop putting a massive glob of thermal grease on the chips. A lot of reports I've seen where people take apart their Macs and redo the grease application saw a temperature drop of at least 10-20C.

So you can have instantly cooler laptops and use less supply in manufacturing. It's win-win for everyone.

Also I'm actually glad to purchase cooler laptops. Both notebooks I've owned can be used as a laptop because they run that cool. But you can't have an Apple laptop, no no, Apple even said the reason they're called notebooks is because they're too hot for laps.


RE: It just works
By jimbojimbo on 9/15/2011 12:52:07 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Every laptop has heating issues when you run a stress test
I may have thought this at one point since my cheapo Averatec ran very hot. However I've been using a Thinkpad x200 for over 2 years now and you could stress the hell out of that thing and the bottom remains perfectly room temperature. I'm actually astonished and it performs excellently. Just because you've only used bad hardware doesn't mean that's the norm. It just means you're getting suckered all the time.


heh
By sprockkets on 9/14/2011 6:50:21 PM , Rating: 3
Apple to Mr. Linden-Levy: "There are no issues."

Later on "Your (sic) using it wrong, just don't use the computer."




RE: heh
By Manch on 9/15/2011 2:37:47 AM , Rating: 2
That or he's suggest where you live is too hot bc of global warming, and that's your fault you evil polluter.


Used to like Apple products
By JohnWPB on 9/14/2011 10:24:20 PM , Rating: 5
Like many on here, I started out with an Apple computer, waaayyyy back when.

Over the years, I changed over to building my own PC's, for the obvious reasons.

Now since Apple has started to sue other companies, instead of beating those companies by bringing out better devices, I get a bad taste in my mouth when I see / hear anything concerning Apple.




Oy Vey!
By oyvey on 9/16/2011 1:24:52 AM , Rating: 1
This Article has so many stretched truths- and many comments following this article are full of BS.

#1 While I have at least one of each kind of computer (windows, linux, mac & android phone) the personal experience I've had on my mac has left my windows machine about as used as a doorstop. I think most people who use one end up feeling the same way... (not that I care if YOU don't want to use one. Just don't flame out of ignorance).

#2 A windows based laptop with comparable hardware actually costs MORE. Do a little digging into the actual hardware and you will find this out quickly enough. Don't just look at the surface statistics.

#3 I've never had a single overheating issue with my early 2011 model 17" 2.3GHz quad core macbook pro- even while gaming.

#4 The quote claiming that mac's do not make use of the i5/i7 Intel chips turbo boost is hilarious.

#5 No time for the other half truths or responses to misinformed comments.

#6 "We are sorry for the inconvenience but we've determined you ... may possibly be a robot." - Thanks DailyTech. Spot on.




RE: Oy Vey!
By brandonicus on 9/17/2011 9:34:31 PM , Rating: 2
1. I love my Windows machine...as do most of the people I know. I'm sorry you haven't enjoyed yours. You seem bias to Mac (that's fine), so that might have something to do with you using the windows machine as a doorstop (a very expensive doorstop, sell it, or donate it maybe?).

2. I've done the digging, and so has everyone else...have you? I'm guessing not, because you are very wrong.

3. Good for you.

4. They use turbo boost. So yeah, funny I guess.

5. You are right. I guess I shouldn't have responded to you. Oh well.

6. Unless you are very Jewish, be careful with how often you say Oy Vey...it gets very annoying.


Idiots have to be idiots.
By messele on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By damianrobertjones on 9/15/2011 3:44:14 AM , Rating: 2
Did you see the mac tear down where they noticed the amount of thermal paste was WAY above the normal amount... literally splattered on? There are also a whole load of overheating cases out there on support forums for YOU to find.

If your machine is fine then that's fantastic for you but others do not and will not have the same trouble free life.


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By messele on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By Fritzr on 9/15/2011 5:47:59 AM , Rating: 3
Design is not just the artistic appearance of the machine when viewed as an artwork.

Engineering design, includes wiring layout, circuit board design, chipset used in the product ... and all the things that go into venting the heat produced. Fail to execute these hidden design items properly results in a substandard product...such as the MacBook Pro that overheats if the CPU load approaches 100% for any length of time. (Actually lower values for extended periods will cause the CPU to die prematurely due to overheating damage)

The part of the design that the Intel engineer was speaking about was the design of the cooling system. Apple designs it equipment as art first with engineering design being an afterthought is what he is saying.

As Tony Swash said a few weeks ago, Flash is evil it causes my MBP to shut down due to overheating.

My reaction at the time was that a properly designed cooling system will allow the computer to continue operating at max CPU load. His computer was shutting down due to an engineering design flaw, not Flash.


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By Solandri on 9/15/2011 4:18:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So, the video linked to boasts a core temp of 90 deg C (not 100 but ok, close enough) and this is the focus. But what is this, the case temperature is less than 30 deg C? So that is not exactly going to cause injury is it?

I suspect OS X's reported case temp is not accurately reflecting the temp of the Macbook's case. Notebookcheck's review of the 2010 MBP (with only an i5) measured a maximum case temp of 45 C, which while not unbearable, is starting to approach uncomfortable.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-...

quote:
- Had to run Flash on YouTube to get the thing to produce those kinds of temperatures. This tells you everything that you need to know about the efficiency of Flash.

I have one of the thermally crappy Sony Z designs. With the nVidia chip active, it idles at 68 C, and peaks at 88 C while gaming.

Playing a 1080p YouTube Flash video on my i5 uses about 50% CPU with temps settling at 74 C. Playing it in HTML 5 mode uses about 39% CPU with temps settling at about 72 C. Idle it's at about 20% CPU, so Flash is using about 1.5x the CPU of HTML 5. Either the Macbook is thermally poorly designed, or Flash on OS X sucks.

quote:
- Chose to run Win7 to really prove his point. Enough said about the efficiency of Windows then.

Because as explained in the video, Apple disables TurboBoost on the i5 and i7 under OS X. TB is the main distinguishing feature of the i5 and i7 over the i3. It's the primary reason you're paying extra for the i5 or i7 processor. The only way to enable it on a Macbook is to run Windows on it. Of course the temperatures will be higher once it's enabled (under Windows) - the processor is freed from OS X's artificial limitation and running at a higher clock speed.

quote:
The hottest part of the case? Well it's where the power circuitry is in the top left hand corner, so nothing to do with CPU or GPU or any of that stuff these 'experts' are talking about since these are dealt with directly by the heatsink, heat pipes and fans.

The power circuitry (it converts the 12-19V DC from the AC adapter into 5V, 3.3V, and lower voltages used by the laptop's components) should be generating very little heat. Any decent DC power converter should be 85%-95% efficient. That is, 85%-95% of the heat should be given off by the CPU, GPU, chipset, and display; only 5%-15% given off by the power circuitry. If the biggest source of heat on the Macbook Pro is due to the power circuitry, it's an indication of a horribly inefficient design wasting an enormous amount of energy.

The Macbooks vent heat upwards against the display. If you look at the teardown, the top left corner (looking at the keyboard) is where there are no fans, and so the heat builds up due to lack of air circulation.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-17-Inch...

I actually agree with you that 90 C CPU temps are within Intel's operating specs, so not something to be overly concerned about (if you're going to replace the laptop within 2-3 years). But if you read Anandtech's review of the Macbook Pros, you'll see that Apple did have overheating problems with the design and deliberately crippled the CPU's performance to keep the temps within acceptable limits (may have been fixed with the 2011 models, I only skimmed that review). If you have a MBP with an i5 or i7, you're getting less performance than a Windows laptop running the same i5 or i7.


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 7:14:31 AM , Rating: 2
I run Windows 7 on the MacBook Pro I have from my company. I can definitely tell you can get hot. Just from doing nothing graphically intensive even.

Part of the problem is that Apple didn't release drivers for graphics switching. So you're always using the discrete GPU vs the onboard when doing things like surfing the net. This is probably because they don't want Windows coming close in terms on battery life on their hardware.

Just compiling Java code with 30% CPU utilization (sandy bridge i7 quad core with HT) can get the laptop rather hot not only from the CPU doing work but the hard drive spinning. And if you think to yourself "well at least its quiet", wrong. It gets pretty loud when its stressed. Right now just sitting here its relatively cool. But I haven't started doing much yet.

Once I get my IDEs and database running, it'll be warm to the touch. But again, that is in large part due to the discrete GPU always being on.


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By jecs on 9/15/2011 11:34:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Part of the problem is that Apple didn't release drivers for graphics switching. So you're always using the discrete GPU vs the onboard when doing things like surfing the net. This is probably because they don't want Windows coming close in terms on battery life on their hardware.


Yes, I think Apple does care very little to bring a Windows experience on par to OSX on any Mac. Also Windows has proven to consume any battery faster than OSX. There are some test in Anandtech. But any overheating problem on Macs is Apple's responsibility.


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By KPOM1 on 9/15/2011 11:20:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because as explained in the video, Apple disables TurboBoost on the i5 and i7 under OS X. TB is the main distinguishing feature of the i5 and i7 over the i3. It's the primary reason you're paying extra for the i5 or i7 processor. The only way to enable it on a Macbook is to run Windows on it. Of course the temperatures will be higher once it's enabled (under Windows) - the processor is freed from OS X's artificial limitation and running at a higher clock speed.


They most certainly did NOT disable Turbo Boost on the 2011 MacBook Air, as evidenced by the many benchmarks that show the 1.7GHz processor (which boosts to 2.4GHz in dual core mode) being about 20% faster than the 1.6GHz processor (which boosts to 2.0GHz).


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By KPOM1 on 9/15/2011 11:58:06 AM , Rating: 2
The 2011 MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs have full Turbo Boost enabled under OS X. AnandTech's testing confirms it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4528/the-2011-macboo...


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By messele on 9/15/11, Rating: 0
RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 7:15:33 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Isn't it strange that despite all these millions of overheating computers that Apple are replacing, and they replacing the replacements as the problem is a design flaw, the company still struggles on...


Sheep rarely question their masters.


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By KPOM1 on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 9:43:49 PM , Rating: 1
Apple could release a laptop that literally rapes the owners wife, girlfriend, and/or mother. People would still line up to buy one. And the next one.

PC owners know Windows has flaws. But it does its job well and we can put it on any hardware we like for a cheap price. Not just the few pieces that Apple decides on for a drastically higher price.


RE: Idiots have to be idiots.
By KPOM1 on 9/17/2011 8:34:11 PM , Rating: 1
That's why the G4 Cube was such a smashing success, and why the $10,000 20th Anniversary Mac sold like hotcakes. Oh, wait a minute...

Windows does offer a choice of hardware (even Macs, for that matter). However, that's not to say that there aren't advantages of Macs. The MacBook Air is very competitively priced, as evidenced by the struggles of competing manufacturers to significantly undercut Apple's pricing with comparable technology (companies like Acer are relying on Core i3s or HDD/SSD hybrids to undercut the $999 MacBook Air price).


Pointing fingers on designs failures?
By jecs on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
Sour Grapes?
By KPOM1 on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: Sour Grapes?
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 7:20:32 AM , Rating: 1
Apple moving to ARM for its notebooks and desktops would be a joke. ARM may be great for battery life and it may be adequate for surfing the net and watching Youtube, but they would lose their following that likes to do video editting, photo editting, and coding. It is not nearly fast enough to keep up with x86 CPUs.

Not to mention that you'd once again break everyone's applications or slow them down to a crawl with a VM environment.


RE: Sour Grapes?
By KPOM1 on 9/15/2011 11:26:45 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Apple moving to ARM for its notebooks and desktops would be a joke. ARM may be great for battery life and it may be adequate for surfing the net and watching Youtube, but they would lose their following that likes to do video editting, photo editting, and coding. It is not nearly fast enough to keep up with x86 CPUs.


I didn't say they would switch today, or that it would be on all of their products. However, even Microsoft is designing Windows 8 to run on ARM, so apparently they aren't worried about breaking compatibility.

The specific rumor was that Apple had produced a working version of the MacBook Air running on an ARM chip to see how OS X would perform, and that it performed better than they expected, which gave them leverage with Intel. Windows 8 on ARM is an even bigger issue for Intel. It's no accident that Intel dramatically reduced the TDP of Haswell chips. It's a major change in their design philosophy.


RE: Sour Grapes?
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 9:45:11 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's goal is to run on everything. Not lock people into one architecture or another. Apple's goal is to hold Intel hostage to their demands under the threat of moving off of it.


Sour Grapes?
By KPOM1 on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
That explains it
By Tony Swash on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By PReiger99 on 9/14/2011 9:05:05 PM , Rating: 5
Because Apple buyers always value look over performance/functionality. So as long as their overpriced shiny toy remains shiny over time, they will be satisfied.

Basically, they are human version of magpies.


RE: That explains it
By snakeInTheGrass on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By Jotatsud1 on 9/14/2011 10:02:41 PM , Rating: 3
It was a total suprise to Apple's engineers and the industry in general that i7 chips generate heat adn therefore you must design proper ventilation systems.

Need more rope?


RE: That explains it
By fcx56 on 9/14/2011 10:18:45 PM , Rating: 1
Quit being dramatic. The previous poster is clearly referencing Atom-class environments. i7 in a tablet? Please, that's what ARM is for.

I just wish Intel would have had the foresight to hold on to XScale, if only as a stopgap. Or even better they could have used it as an additional core in a modular architecture.


RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By erple2 on 9/15/2011 9:36:53 AM , Rating: 3
Look, buddy, that puzzle game with the apple logo shouldn't make your laptop spin up it's fans like that.


RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/15/2011 5:13:06 PM , Rating: 1
Hmm, downvoted because I say that the MBP temps are well within tolerance and that the noise from the fans is no more than Asus or Alienware gaming laptops that I've used, or downvoted because I've been playing the Diablo 3 beta since day 1?

Someone's jealous either way...


RE: That explains it
By Dradien on 9/14/11, Rating: 0
RE: That explains it
By snakeInTheGrass on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By Dradien on 9/15/2011 1:35:01 AM , Rating: 2
"No sh1t, sherlock, want to guess why none of them are using Intel chipsets?"

I'd wager that they weren't designed to? Atom and ARM are utterly different markets as of now, so I don't see where you're getting this idea it was made for crap like the iPad.

"But leave it to Intel to make snide comments on heat dissipation"

Maybe snide, but not unfounded. There are numerous reports of the MacBooks doing just what they are being snide about. Your anecdotal story about having three and none of them burned you doesn't prove anything. Three out of a ridiculous amount is such a small and insignificant number.


RE: That explains it
By Fritzr on 9/15/2011 5:56:56 AM , Rating: 5
Another anecdotal story was from Tony Swash a few weeks ago taking a swipe at Flash

Flash shuts his MacBook Pro down ... due to overheating

He assumed that Flash caused the overheating. He was wrong, the failure to properly cool the CPU caused the overheating.


RE: That explains it
By messele on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By FITCamaro on 9/15/2011 7:25:08 AM , Rating: 2
Intel eventually wants to get Atom into those devices. But it realized it would need several years to get power usage down enough to compete with ARM.

As far as the troll responding to you, Atom uses more power and thus produces more heat because it is an x86 based CPU which is far more complex than an ARM CPU. It's benefits are that it can run x86 applications. Once Intel can shrink its manufacturing processes enough, it might be able to threaten ARM. And while Atom may not be in any tablets yet, it has been pretty damn successful in netbooks which get 10 hours of battery life.


RE: That explains it
By Targon on 9/15/2011 4:09:08 AM , Rating: 2
Atom didn't make it because the only real advantage to the iPad is that it runs the same apps as the iPhone does(plus the fact that Atom sucks). If you were looking at a new architecture, then evaluating what is out there and picking the best price/performance chips makes sense, but if you want a device that is fully compatible with another device, you want the chips to be as similar as possible.


RE: That explains it
By TakinYourPoints on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By lukarak on 9/15/2011 2:04:36 AM , Rating: 2
The thing about Apple, well, MBP is that it's aluminum body is a great conductor, so it feels warm on the outside. I never had it have problems with overheating, unlike some others like plastic HPs and Acers over the years.

And they just replaced almost the whole casing of my 4 year old macbook.


RE: That explains it
By Tony Swash on 9/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: That explains it
By Pirks on 9/15/2011 10:46:00 AM , Rating: 2
This upsets techies not because Apple products make their customers happy, but because these Apple products are worse then the competitors' products in the eyes of techies.

A small illustrative example for you. A really tiny Sansa Clip+ 16GB MP3 player does the same thing as iPod nano 16GB but costs half as much.

In the eyes of a techie like me this Sansa is the best MP3 player on the market, and all the Apple customers are braindead idiots for paying DOUBLE the price essentially just for the fruity logo.

However, this does not upset us that much, but there is the other more serious reason for a techie to be upset. This is the frivolous use of the fake "patents" by Apple as described here: http://www.osnews.com/story/25056/The_Community_De...

When a techie sees beloved Samsung devices being banned by these fake "patents" (why they are fake and should be eradicated ASAP is explained at the link above) applied by Apple - this is quite a reason to be upset.

I think they are even more upset about Samsung's stupidity not to "patent" all those fake fishy sketches and vague drawings. Who'd know these fake "patents" even existed in Europe? Now Samsung knows but it's too late.

This is why we are really upset, Tony :)


RE: That explains it
By snakeInTheGrass on 9/15/2011 3:17:27 PM , Rating: 2
The majority of techies I know moved to Macs in the years since the Intel switch, happy to be able to ditch the sh1t that passes for products from most other PC makers.

Another small illustrative example - find an 11" 'ultrabook' at a better price than a MacBook Air. With Thunderbolt, please. It typically just depends on where in the products refresh-cycle you looks. By the time the next Air refresh happens, you'll be able to say 'look, it costs $100 more than X', and then suddenly it will be better than the competition again at an equal or better price. This happens across the majority of the products, if not all. In the case of many of the products, you get to weigh more than just hardware though - I'll pay more just to not have to run Windows and to have access to nicer apps on the portable devices.

The good news is that I don't think you're a braindead idiot for choosing poorly designed products in order to save a few dollars, you're just tasteless. :)

Sansa may be fine now, but given that I moved from my Archos & Creative players years ago to iPods that were smaller, nicer to navigate (the wheel crushed the nav of the competition of the time, not to even mention the touch...), became WAY more useful (web/mail/photos/apps), and are nicer to sync (and will be getting streaming of my library over the internet shortly, to boot), AND that my player now is also my phone, I'm not sure it's relevant. Dedicated MP3 players have the same future as printers - they'll be around, but it's not exactly the center of the technology universe nowadays.

The "Community Design" isn't a patent issue, it's trade dress. Try selling a car that looks like a Ferrari with a Samsung logo on it and let us know how that goes.


RE: That explains it
By evo slevven on 9/19/2011 5:49:03 PM , Rating: 2
Frankly, your post is really part uninformative and part moronic. A 17" Macbook Pro served only slightly better than my coffee maker at making heat. There is a saying in architectural design (points if you know know who said it) that goes "form follows function". I think the Asus G73 (now G74 and so on) were and still are superior to the Macbook Pro 17" series. Difference in price in that area: $800-$1000 pending on configuration of the Apple. Frankly if I have to go out and make revisions on the road, I'd rather have a functional, competent laptop than something that makes for an impressive compact heater. But if I wanted that I'd get a Dyson heater thank you. And I'd need something beefier than what I'd get with a Macbook Air.

Secondly the best and most affordable ultra~thin in my experience are the Toshiba Protege series. A Protege runs for about $700 with 13" screen size and 3.2 lbs weight. That would be a significant ratio of nearly 2:1 for price with a 13" Macbook Air going for $1299 and weighing only a 1/4 pound lighter at 2.9 lbs total weight. That might be the difference of 3 snickers bars in weight.

And I'm going to put this out there to clarify your words of "wisdom". Anyone who knows something more than the next person is now-a-days called a techie. The wanna-be trendies and hipsters get Apple PC's, those who have a pretty good knowledge level rating above average also get Apple. But the people who just know their sh*t get PC's and install Linux or make their own desktops.

At the end of the day, Intel has a point where if your going to make a product that looks good but isn't functional "WHAT'S THE F**KEN USE OF IT!".

And for the record, you actually get a better audio (and always did) with a Zune than you ever got with an iPod. You got better video viewing with an iPod however.

I prefer to be an informed shopper and product advocate and frankly that Macbook Air example of being $100 more is closer to oh $300 if you go 11" to $700. But hey if being off by $200 is no big deal to you, feel free to mail me the difference. And as a side joke I've seen a Samsung logo on a Ferrari, its called race car advertising. Pick a better example next time fanboy.


RE: That explains it
By Onimuto on 9/15/2011 11:30:38 AM , Rating: 1
Well let see apple custer service. Ok let go at it. 100,000,000 of people buy them really now I am the only person I know in real life that owns a sandy bridge mbp. I know more who own iPhones including my self mainly becuase I helped spread the virus of getting iPhones ,which I now regrette.
Only after showing people how to jailbreak did they want the iPhone anyway.
Problems with my apple devices
1. iPhone 8g digitizer broke
2. IPhone 3G broken receiver
3 iPhone 3G head phone jack and bottom comunicaton/charger port worked when it wanted to broken logic board (note this was the phone apple store gave me replace the broken receiver)
4 iPhone 3G over heating shutting off stuck at apple logo ( note this is the phone apple store gave me to replace the broken logic board)
5 iPhone 4 home screen button broken
6 iPhone 4 silent button and volume button broken( this was the phone replaced for broken home screen button)
Now on my third iPhone 4 actually has survived for over 10 months
No I didn't get the 3GS junk no real up grade from 3G.
1 Mac book pro stuck at load screen. new Mac book pro replaced . Problem motherboard. But hey I can't complain to much this Mac book I recived from fixing a car. Was replaced with a Macbook pro instire which had 4 more gigs of ram total of 8 gigs still has the slow ass 5200 rpm hdd.
At the apple store customer service was good. But not any different fro what best but does, petco, sears, ect.
I'm trying Tony I really am I MacBook pro every day to get used of the os. But still turn to my msi at the end of the day. Still feel sorry for my friend who shelled out $2800 to buy this thing. I paid $1,800 for my msi which far better hardware side.


RE: That explains it
By damianrobertjones on 9/15/2011 3:45:39 AM , Rating: 1
There was a time a few years back where Apple was NOT at the top of the list but average in every single way. I would find that chart but it would just end up with someone calling someone a bad name or you finding evidence to invalidate the chart etc. Simply not worth it and life goes on.


RE: That explains it
By TEAMSWITCHER on 9/15/2011 1:45:01 PM , Rating: 2
So instead, you'll just do a quick post about some chart, somewhere, that says Apple was at some point in the past, average. But are they average now? The answer is no.


Sour Grapes?
By KPOM1 on 9/14/11, Rating: -1
"Google fired a shot heard 'round the world, and now a second American company has answered the call to defend the rights of the Chinese people." -- Rep. Christopher H. Smith (R-N.J.)














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