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LinuxWorld: IBM outlines its plans to help companies shift away from Microsoft Windows and towards open source Linux

Another computer show, another bull’s-eye painted squarely on the chest of Microsoft and its Windows operating system.

During the LinuxWorld Conference & Expo in San Francisco, IBM announced it will work alongside several different Linux vendors to help offer middleware through several different distributions.  

IBM has tweaked its Lotus Foundations software suite to run on Ubuntu Linux, Red Hat and Novell SUSE Linux.  The software suite includes Lotus Notes, Symphony and Sametime.

"Linux has always been about choice," IBM Linux Director Inna Kuznetsova said during a press conference.  "We're providing a well-recognized alternative for the desktop."

Because many users still tend to rely on the software that ships with their products, Microsoft has had a great advantage by providing Office and other services with each notebook and PC shipped.  IBM said it hopes this latest partnership with Linux vendors will help companies make a switch away from Microsoft Windows towards different Linux distributions.  This strategic move could also help IBM try and break Microsoft's control of the Small Business Server (SBS) software, with the Redmond-based company having great success selling its software.

IBM has supported Linux and open source technology for more than 10 years, and hopes this announcement will help Linux improve further.  Even though open source products such as Mozilla Firefox and OpenOffice have become popular among Windows-based users, a full transition towards Linux from Windows has been a bit slower due to lackluster user friendliness.

The Ubuntu and SUSE Linux distributions have joined the likes of Mandriva and Red Hat in becoming more user-friendly for green Linux users.

The IBM software bundle will be included with IBM's selected Linux partners and will be shipped to PC makers with an estimated goal of 2009.  IBM did not announce specific PC partners at the moment, but said the company is discussing possible agreements with several companies.

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Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Clauzii on 8/6/2008 8:42:35 AM , Rating: 1
The only thing really missing in Linux is gaming stuff, but since a small percentage of all users are actually gamers that doesn't hurt so much. But more applications would be nice.

OpenOffice has come a long way, and I see no reason why Linux as a whole won't do that too. Ubuntu for one, shows that it's possible to make nice, easy distributions that work for normal PC usage like surfing, mailing, writing etc. Iow. what 90% of users use their machines for anyway.

Nice to see competition getting tuffer :)




RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 8:46:47 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Nice to see competition getting tuffer :)

That would be "tougher" but that is beside the point. The reality is that competition isn't getting any better. Microsoft still commands greater than 90% market share. Sure some people have tried Ubuntu, but the majority of the computers those same users use are running Windows. At work, Windows. At School, Windows. At home, probably at least one Windows machine there too (if not more). Rather than Linux shooting for the moon and taking on Microsoft, it would probably be better for them to try and beat Apple first, heck even Apple on a 100% closed system beats Linux into the ground.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By jithvk on 8/6/2008 10:05:31 AM , Rating: 2
i agree..
I think the most important issue with linux is the availability of drivers. There is nothing like a "Linux compatible" sticker to be pasted on to the front panel. Why don't the hardware vendors start shipping machines with 100% driver compatibility with Linux? That will be a much better thing to do than to port a crappy software to linux hoping every one will move to linux because of that..

Another area where linux lag behind is working out of the box. i have to spent at least one day for downloading and installing all the drivers and softwares i need.. (still many things like wifi wont work)


By glitchc on 8/6/2008 11:18:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why don't the hardware vendors start shipping machines with 100% driver compatibility with Linux?


There is no economic incentive to do so. Since the OS is free, there is nothing the Linux community can offer manufacturers in terms of support contracts, subsidized APIs and the like.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By omnicronx on 8/6/2008 2:20:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why don't the hardware vendors start shipping machines with 100% driver compatibility with Linux?
Because there is no single Linux entity. There are numerous amounts of distros that although they have the same base kernel, they can be totally different from one another.

I think the greatest fallback of linux is there is installing programs is just far too difficult regardless of the distro. I love linux, don't get me wrong, but even for ubuntu, an unskilled or even a medium skilled user is going to have no idea how to install an app manually (i.e without using the provided app)without detailed instructions, where both Mac and Windows is as simple as a double click and pressing enter a bunch of times.

Making matters worse is every major distro packages its binaries differently. From RPM, to DEB, there is no cross the board way to install an app unless you compile it from scratch, which even hardcore users know can be a painful process if things go wrong. Until each distro gets their act together and starts working with each other, linux is going to go nowhere in terms of a workstation replacement OS.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By BansheeX on 8/6/2008 6:51:31 PM , Rating: 2
If linux really wanted to seriously compete with Microsoft, it HAS to create an "official" distro with a standard API set that also mimics as closely as possible the Windows layout. It's a total clusterf*ck right now, they can't even decide on a sound API. ALSA, OpenAL, OSS, etc. No wonder no one wants to develop drivers and games for it. Linux people may be smart with computers, but they are absolutely terrible at understanding why these three things have to happen. In order to get more gaming development, non-savvy Windows users must be converted in greater numbers. In order to convert these people, you CANNOT present them with a choice of a thousand distros and no standard modus operandus. Unlimited customization destroys the ability to have a standard modus operandus to troubleshoot and develop drivers for. And when linux starts getting elitist and cute and doing things its own way like using / instead of \ in folder paths, making users learn effing command line to install things, you assure failure in converting the established and familiar Windows market to your side.


By quickk on 8/6/2008 7:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And when linux starts getting elitist and cute and doing things its own way like using / instead of \ in folder paths


Actually, Windows is the one that is "elitist and cute and doing things it's own way." Before Windows came along, the forward slash (/) was always used in folder paths. Linux, Unix, OSX all use forward slashes for directory paths.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By quickk on 8/6/2008 7:21:51 PM , Rating: 2
Another thing: you don't need the command line to install most things. The reason why you see so many command line things out there is that it's a lot easier to tell someone to cut and paste these commands and press enter, than try to explain how to navigate a bunch of menus.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By omnicronx on 8/6/2008 9:51:20 PM , Rating: 2
Someone has never had a dependency issue...


By quickk on 8/6/2008 10:23:59 PM , Rating: 2
With ubuntu I haven't. Dependencies are all magically taken care of. I wish I could say the same about opensuse though...


By CheesePoofs on 8/7/2008 2:24:09 AM , Rating: 2
I've actually found Linux to be better with drivers than Windows, for the most part. Ubuntu had my laptop working with sound, wireless, and video drivers before I even rebooted (rather impressive IMO).

What many people fail to see is the Linux community, for the most part, is not trying to beat Microsoft. They're just making the product they want to use, which in many instances isn't what the average user wants.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Clauzii on 8/6/2008 10:18:50 AM , Rating: 2
I think beating Apple would be more difficult because of the whole concept of making both the hardware and software.

But true, given that Windows is everywhere (like it or not), very sound arguments are needed to make people >change< to Linux. I tried, and for normal PC-usage, I see nothing in the way of running Linux for most people.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By phusg on 8/6/2008 10:57:32 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
I see nothing in the way of running Linux for most people.

Nor did I until I actually tried the latest Ubuntu and found that the dang thing doesn't even remember the size and positions of my windows. Apparantly this is the case with all gnome based linux distros! This and plenty of other little issues I noticed have convinced me that linux is unfortunately still a long way off desktop usability for most people. Small business servers, yeah I can see that having more potential.


By Clauzii on 8/6/2008 12:33:08 PM , Rating: 3
Speaking of Desktop. Have You seen this?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ

As I said earlier, we need more applications and games. Looks like the rest is WAY ahead :)


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 10:59:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I tried, and for normal PC-usage, I see nothing in the way of running Linux for most people.

Your only catering to the Web/Email/Document mindset which is also a false assumption over the everyday user.
The following apps are road blocks to Linux Adoption.
-Office (Open Office doesn't compete, sorry)
-Adobe Reader (The linux ones don't work the same way, generally requiring the download of the PDF file and subsequent opening through the desktop, rather than native browser support)
-Random Software obtained at the store (Big problem guys)
-Turbo Tax/MS Money/QuickBooks (Huge problem given the number of people that use Turbo Tax alone each year)
-iTunes (Yea, deal with it, alot of people use this, alot of people own iPods)

You can't expect people to "use the linux equivalents" or "do some minor tweaking to make things work the way they want them". People want it to work the way they think it should or rather the way it "did on windows/mac" and no tweaking. Tweaking is for guys like us, not regular users. Going out to "support forums" to "find help" is also not acceptable. Sorry man but Linux still suffers from the same problems it always has.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 8/6/2008 11:36:43 AM , Rating: 1
I'm not a Microsoft hater - I have both Linux and Microsoft OSs on my home systems. However, as I read your comment it just made me laugh a bit:

office (open office doesn't compete, sorry)

You do understand this is why Steve Ballmer was very pissed off. He found out that Microsoft does not write it's own program for office. They were just taking open office and altering the program to make Office.
I can not blame him, I'd be pissed too, if I found out the software company I was heading up was not writing our own programs from scratch.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 1:15:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
He found out that Microsoft does not write it's own program for office. They were just taking open office and altering the program to make Office.

I'd love to see the proof to back up such a claim. If I recall correctly, Office has been around far longer than Open Office.


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 8/6/2008 5:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
you should know better...It does not matter which came out first (once you have multiple additions that came out at different times). If they are going to use your core then they will use your core from an older edition for a new one then make whatever needed changes to make the new edition. It's still a new software of course, kind of like if Ford used a Chevy frame to build a new truck. It would still be a new model Ford truck just on a Chevy frame.

I'll see if I can find the article again that talked about this issue. However, it will be a difficult one to find. It was probably 2 or 3 years back and not something MS exactly talks up....


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By TomZ on 8/6/2008 1:52:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
He found out that Microsoft does not write it's own program for office.

I think you forgot to take your meds today. Seriously though, you're not going to win any arguments here with outright lies/BS like that.

At the end of the day, regarding Open Office vs. Microsoft Office, all you have to do is try both. It is abundantly obvious to all but the most delusional that Microsoft Office is superior. So in situations where time is money and you can afford it, the cost of Microsoft Office is clearly worth it.

But if your time is free or you don't have the money, and Open Office gets the job done for you, then that's probably the better choice.

See, being honest, fair, and balanced isn't that hard, is it?


By ksuWildcat on 8/6/2008 5:02:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
At the end of the day, regarding Open Office vs. Microsoft Office, all you have to do is try both. It is abundantly obvious to all but the most delusional that Microsoft Office is superior.


That's funny, because my wife (a school teacher with admittedly limited computer skills) has tried both Open Office and MS Office 2007, and she prefers Open Office. Go figure.

I personally liked Office 2003, but Open Office works very well for about 90% of general tasks.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By quickk on 8/6/2008 11:48:09 AM , Rating: 2
-Office: Open Office is fine for most people, but you are right that it is not yet ready to work alongside office. I find that importing/exporting documents to the word format still has some problems.

Adobe Reader: The linux one does work the same way, at least using the latest Ubuntu distribution.

Random store software: You don't have to buy anything at the store, you can get something equivalent for free ;)

Tax software: Most tax companies now offer an online version of their tools.

iTunes: A lot of linux music programs can manage an ipod. However, if you use the itunes store, then you are stuck (unless you use a virtual machine, or wine).

Anyway, my point is that linux has come a long way and is now very useable. The problem is that people are reticent to learn something new/different. Linux is not quite there yet, but in a year or two it will be.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 1:21:32 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Adobe Reader: The linux one does work the same way, at least using the latest Ubuntu distribution.

Might be unique to Ubuntu, I have not seen this using other Linux distros recently.

quote:
Random store software: You don't have to buy anything at the store, you can get something equivalent for free ;)

Tell this to the Soccer Mom's, and the little kids and the stuff they see in the store and "gotta have".

quote:
Tax software: Most tax companies now offer an online version of their tools.

I double checked on Turbo Tax, but it seems they prevent anyone on a Linux system from using it as it's (not supported). Even if you use Firefox or other cross platform browser. People have gotten it working by tweaking it to run and report as being Windows or Mac to the webserver. (This would fall under serious tweaking to make it work, thus nullifying its use in the general population)

quote:
iTunes: A lot of linux music programs can manage an ipod. However, if you use the itunes store, then you are stuck (unless you use a virtual machine, or wine).

I can say the same about many things on Linux, but the fact remains that Wine and VM's are for us as power users or better. Use in general population isn't a possibility.

quote:
Anyway, my point is that linux has come a long way and is now very useable.

Usable, and practical Windows/Mac Replacement are completely different things.

quote:
Linux is not quite there yet, but in a year or two it will be.

I have been hearing this from the Linux community for over a decade, I'm still waiting for this eventuality to come true.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By quickk on 8/6/2008 3:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree with you on most of your points.

Regarding the tax software, I have used ufile and quicktax online without any problems with firefox and no tweaking was necessary.

Regarding software in stores, it's kind of a chicken and egg sort of thing. If Linux was very popular, then the software would support it, and Linux would be even more popular. But isn't and most software isn't compatible.

While Linux may not be ready for prime time, those that are more technically inclined and an open mind should give it a try---they might be pleasantly surprised. I made the transition about a year ago and find it very refreshing. Whenever I go back to using my wife's laptop with XP on it, it just makes me feel angry. There's so much stuff popping up all the time that it soon becomes very annoying. My "favorite" is the restart dialog that keeps popping up every five minutes after updates were installed. If you're not careful, you could lose a lot of work.

I've also found it way easier to install a network printer with ubuntu than with XP. All that I had to do was ask it to look for new printers and the network printer was automatically installed. With windows XP, the same thing took me a couple of hours. Maybe Vista is better, I don't know.

Anyway, Linux works great for most things. One thing it is not good at is gaming. Unfortunately, this has more to do with game developers using DX10 instead of openGL. Why can't they use openGL? That way all platforms would be supported, from Windows to OSX to Linux.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 4:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
OpenGL is inferior to DX9/10 (My opinion of course, the standards seem to fall in line as being equal, but visually it doesn't seem that way). I look at games like Doom3/Quake4 and I look at games that were released around the sametimeframe that utilize DirectX and the visuals in DirectX are so much better. Now this might just be that idSoftware is simply not doing as well as other companies, but with few examples of OpenGL games to compare against DirectX games its kind of an apples and oranges comparison at best.

For tax software, I compared the major software titles, TurboTax, Quickbooks, and MS Money. All three did not work under Linux natively. Even when using the web version.

Strange with the printer thing. I've never had a problem getting it to find it in XP, even faster/easier in Vista but I'm not sure what your network setup is like and can't speak for why it might take so long.

I find Linux lacking for most things, but then again as an IT Engineer/Admin I need to look for things that either make my job easier, cut down support costs, or cut down on user problems. Linux doesn't qualify under any of those. Could I push adoption of Linux at work and switch some users over? Sure. But I would also have to make sure I have my resume current since I would be fired within a day or two of the customer backlash.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By ksuWildcat on 8/6/2008 5:09:25 PM , Rating: 2
OpenGL is not inferior to DirectX. A lot of this has to do with which APIs graphics card makers optimize their cards and drivers for, and since DirectX is probably on 90%+ of consumer machines, I'd spend my time optimizing for DirectX too.

That being said, OpenGL is actually a great API for developers wanting to create professional graphics-related programs and not be limited to an MS based machine.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Reclaimer77 on 8/7/2008 1:39:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
OpenGL is not inferior to DirectX.


Yes. It is.

The only people who run OpenGl are those that HAVE TO. All other cases Direct X is used. How can you say its not inferior ?


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By ksuWildcat on 8/7/2008 8:25:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How can you say its not inferior ?


Probably because I can run OpenGL on a much wider variety of machines than DirectX with equivalent performance. For those of us in the professional software world outside of Windows gaming, OpenGL is superior to DirectX, plain and simple.


By Reclaimer77 on 8/7/2008 5:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
Now your backpeddaling. What you MEANT is OpenGl is more compatible over a wider variety of software environments. In other words, non Windows machines. Which make up a HUGE minority of all machines anyway.

So again, how is OpenGl not inferior ?


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By quickk on 8/6/2008 5:40:28 PM , Rating: 2
It's weird that turbotax does not work with Linux when Quicktax (http://quicktax.intuit.ca/tax-software/index.jsp), especially when both are made by the same company.

The other tax software that I used was http://www.ufile.ca/default.asp and it works fine too. I guess that I just got lucky and both software packages that I needed worked just fine.


By quickk on 8/6/2008 5:41:38 PM , Rating: 2
By quickk on 8/6/2008 5:42:34 PM , Rating: 2
I just realized that maybe I shouldn't have posted these links. Sorry for that.


By PWNettle on 8/7/2008 8:13:13 PM , Rating: 2
Chances are you do some tweaks to make your Linux distro work exactly as you want it to.

With XP, I make lots of tweaks for performance that disable stuff I don't need or want, and

"much stuff popping up all the time that it soon becomes very annoying"

...simply doesn't happen to me.

"My "favorite" is the restart dialog that keeps popping up every five minutes after updates were installed"

I would also imagine that your Linux distro requires updates at times and that you need to save your work periodically - and maybe even reboot.

I personally disable automatic updates in windows and update manually when I feel like it. I'd agree that the windows update thing can be annoying, but for joe ignorant user, it's probably for the best the way it works by default.

Between extreme gaming, programming, and using my PC almost constantly, I'd say I'm a reasonably demanding user, and I never have problems with XP. I strip it down and keep it clean and lean but that's just how I like it. I can't remember XP itself crashing. I'll lock it up periodically with some game (what can you say, some software can hose your PC with no escape/alttab/taskmanager bailout) and have to reboot but other than that, I only ever reboot if windows update requires it (and it does most of the time, but not always).

I'm not against Linux - I'm more against bashing MS or XP for no good reason. It's not MS' fault if you don't know how to tweak/optimize/use something as simple as XP.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By phusg on 8/6/2008 12:07:07 PM , Rating: 2
That would be "you're" or "you are" not "your" but that is beside the point.

Sorry but I could hardly let that one go seeing how quick you are to point out other people's spelling mistakes!


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 1:15:51 PM , Rating: 2
Touche.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Alpha4 on 8/6/2008 5:57:07 PM , Rating: 2
That would be "Touché", but that is beside the point. ;)


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/7/2008 7:52:12 AM , Rating: 2
I concede the point.


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By RjBass on 8/6/2008 1:10:20 PM , Rating: 2
But all that is changing now. Check this out - http://www.eggxpert.com/blogs/rj_systems/archive/2...


RE: Hard times ahead for Microsoft.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 3:14:49 PM , Rating: 2
Right, so it looks like this clown is too dumb to go to HP/Dell and tell them he works for the school system, and get some cheap school computers pre-loaded with the stuff he needs.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 4:20:24 PM , Rating: 2
On further consideration and fully reading his article in great detail. He failed to do several things.

1. Plan. He failed to plan to build the machines and get software, or buy pre-built ones that are pre-loaded. He decided to go with option A without first researching and considering other options. Good thing he doesn't work for a major company.

2. Research. He failed to research all options and figure out which method would be best based on his budget. Extreme failure here.

3. The assumption that Open Source supports education simply because its free. OSS is free by nature, because its open. He's also falling into the same idea that Apple fell into. Kids in school learn on Platform A, they will buy Platform A when they grow up. Wrong. They buy what they use at work, which is Platform B or Platform C.


By Screwballl on 8/6/2008 1:02:57 PM , Rating: 2
What is really needed rather than try to get better emulation and support for Windows based programs, is to get the game and program manufacturers to actually release apps that natively support linux (Photoshop, games, etc...). There are a few out there that already do but the native linux support needs to expand rather than be pushed into the emulation corner.


Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By dickeywang on 8/6/2008 8:42:12 AM , Rating: 2
I've been started to use Ubuntu for 2 years now, and I find myself rarely boot into my Windows partition these days. Ubuntu+Wine rules!!




RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By itlnstln on 8/6/2008 10:31:43 AM , Rating: 4
That is exactly the problem. Linux + WINE = fail (for this purpose, anyway). In the business world, and most lay users, why emulate with WINE when I can just run Windows? For people to switch, they have to be able to everything in Linux they can currently do in Windows without compromise. This is why the switch to Mac is much easier (and desirable) from many people. Once I have MS Office and several other tools (Acrobat, etc.) on a particular plaform, I no longer need a specific platform to run the software I need. In my own personal experience, I could run just as well on Mac as I can on Windows, but due to a lack of certain software (Office being a biggie, and, in this case, OO is not an acceptable substitute) Linux is out of the question.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By Clauzii on 8/6/2008 10:54:40 AM , Rating: 2
"..why emulate with WINE when I can just run Windows?"

Because it's free.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 11:02:14 AM , Rating: 2
Free isn't always an ideal argument. Linux is free, but you won't see any sane IT department try to push it at their company, not if they want to keep their jobs.

At home, the headaches of putting up with Linux and its lack of industry support far outweigh the cost of just buying a PC with Windows on it.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By phusg on 8/6/2008 12:12:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Linux is free, but you won't see any sane IT department try to push it at their company, not if they want to keep their jobs.

Are you saying that linux is so much easier to administrate than windows that a company could considerably downsize their IT department after dumping windows in favour of it? ;-)


By Clauzii on 8/6/2008 12:37:53 PM , Rating: 2
Bulls Eye!


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 4:26:46 PM , Rating: 3
No. I think you guys simply don't work in IT for a major company. Let me put it simply.

IT decides that Linux is the way to go. Ubuntu image is generated, loaded, and ghosted out to Test group A. Test group A says, why can't I do X Y and Z. You train test group A to do X Y and Z differently. Test group A is happy. You deploy to a larger group now. We will call them Rollout A. Rollout A contains Admins, VP's, accountants, analysts, and etc... VP calls, asks why he can't open a MS Word document and do feature X or Y. You sheepishly explain it doesn't do that. VP calls IT VP. Says fix or your toast. Windows rolled back out, someone(s) fired over "lost productivity".

Not quite like that, since Linux gets talked about every year at the IT meetings, and is discarded in short order once someone makes it to UAT (User Acceptance Testing).

If anything, the move to Linux would actually increase tenfold the job security of IT workers. Hell everytime we hired someone new, we would have to teach them how to use a computer from the ground up. As long as your company is hiring a few dozen a month, this keeps the momentum going nicely.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By croc on 8/7/2008 1:02:16 AM , Rating: 2
"No. I think you guys simply don't work in IT for a major company. Let me put it simply.

IT decides that Linux is the way to go. Ubuntu image is generated, loaded, and ghosted out to Test group A. Test group A says, why can't I do X Y and Z. You train test group A to do X Y and Z differently. Test group A is happy. You deploy to a larger group now. We will call them Rollout A. Rollout A contains Admins, VP's, accountants, analysts, and etc... VP calls, asks why he can't open a MS Word document and do feature X or Y. You sheepishly explain it doesn't do that. VP calls IT VP. Says fix or your toast. Windows rolled back out, someone(s) fired over "lost productivity".

Not quite like that, since Linux gets talked about every year at the IT meetings, and is discarded in short order once someone makes it to UAT (User Acceptance Testing).

If anything, the move to Linux would actually increase tenfold the job security of IT workers. Hell everytime we hired someone new, we would have to teach them how to use a computer from the ground up. As long as your company is hiring a few dozen a month, this keeps the momentum going nicely."

You missed a few bits there... All the back-end apps need to go through regression testing, for one. Also, if you work for a large IT department, (5000+ users) you will require vendor hardware support. More important in the back-end servers than the desktop, but still pretty critical even for the desktop. So this typically means a multi-vendor back-end with a mix of various Unix servers. (SAP prefers to work with Sun, Oracle runs better on HP, etc.) So the issue gets more complicated.

XP's been around for how long? And how many corporates are just finally porting over in the past few years? If at all?

How many corporates have jumped on Vista? At least there's not that many compatability issues there, but enough to have to go through the same process all over again. Linux is going to mean re-training staff, re-writing a lot of code, and getting a lot of vendors to agree to support it.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/7/2008 7:56:36 AM , Rating: 2
Croc, would help if you used the quote tags, makes it a little bit easier to read your comments from what your commenting on, but otherwise good points. I was giving them a quick and dirty drilldown, but its a pretty complex process. We still haven't finished a 100% migration to XP from 2000 here. Still about 1300 Win2k users in my environment, bout 15 Vista users, but thats mostly for testing and field testing changes in domain policies that occur under Vista. We are just starting to see Vista support from most software vendors, but we have inhouse software that needs to be completely rewritten or (looks like our preferred method) running software inside a type of virtual session, a solution we recently acquired from WISE.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By Clauzii on 8/6/2008 12:19:36 PM , Rating: 2
Ask the German police. They've been using it for years and saved millions of euros.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By TomZ on 8/6/2008 1:45:54 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, that was a real intelligent decision. They had problems with their work process and application software, and so they changed their operating system. Can you spot the flaw in that logic?

ref. http://news.softpedia.com/news/German-Police-Wants...

I'd like to see a real study that shows that there is actually a net savings. Not having to pay a license fee for the OS doesn't mean anything if the net result is higher admin and maintenance costs because Linux is a "do it yourself" OS.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 4:28:41 PM , Rating: 2
Federal Government here in the U.S. has tried this a few times. They spend years, I don't mean 2 or 3, I mean 5 or 6 trying to build an OS, modify the crap out of generic distro to do exactly what they want, then they need to hire vendors to build software that does what they want, or build it in house. Or they can go with Windows, and grab some off the shelf stuff or vendor who can modify off the shelf on the cheap. Yea, lets look at the cost benefit analysis of that. I tell you it doesn't favor Linux, it never has.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By Screwballl on 8/6/2008 1:20:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Free isn't always an ideal argument. Linux is free, but you won't see any sane IT department try to push it at their company, not if they want to keep their jobs. At home, the headaches of putting up with Linux and its lack of industry support far outweigh the cost of just buying a PC with Windows on it.


The IT department uses linux backend servers but for everyone else, they make sure they keep Windows because of the inherent problems. If they switched everything to Linux, after the initial employee training period, 50-80% of the IT department could be let go. Once it is setup to run and be used in its environment, there is no need for constant IT support like there is for Windows or OSX. Set it and forget it.
As for at home, I use it daily for home and work with no problems and I am far from a linux guru. The ONLY issue I have run into lately was getting my XFi card to work in Kubuntu 8.04... which was about an hour of reading and 5 minutes of work. People that claim "headaches at home" are usually the ones that absolutely love Vista and can't say anything bad and enough good about it.

Here is a challenge for those with the big enough cajones to actually try it :
Completely switch to Linux for 30 days non-stop (I would suggest Kubuntu or Fedora Core 9). Make an image of your windows installation and then completely make it disappear. After the first few days of searching ways to do things, you will find that for every day use, it runs faster, more secure, no reboots needed (except maybe for an OS update), and has an option for pretty much every program you use. If not, then Wine or Cedega can take care of it for you. Otherwise, except for a few games, any given person can switch 100% to Linux if they really chose to... but thats the thing, people are either to dumb or too unwilling to actually switch. Can't claim drivers because Linux has the largest driver support base of any OS available. Can't claim "office" because there are 3 or 4 reasonable MSO replacements. Can't claim stability or security or anything else other than the fact of unwillingness, everything is is 100% excuse and 0% fact.


By TomZ on 8/6/2008 1:39:58 PM , Rating: 3
Your assertion that IT avoids Linux in favor of Windows for their own self-preservation is totally stupid. IT doesn't run the business, and most companies are plenty savvy enough to find big cost savings wherever they might exist.

If Linux deployed to corporate desktops saved any significant money compared to Windows, it would have been in widespread use years ago.


By itlnstln on 8/6/2008 1:47:31 PM , Rating: 2
There is no 100% replacement for Office in the business world (the home user situation is a little different). Especially if you are trying to be involved in the global marketplace. I have tried several (for money reasons), and none of them are as easy to use, as compatible as they need to be, or, in the case of Office 2007, anywhere near as powerful. I don't care what OS I use, I need MS Office as my office suite if I want to do business in any market (national, global or otherwise). Even a switch to an OS with Office, either Windows to OSX or vice versa, is risky in the business world as end-users need some training/figure-it-out time to get used to using the new environment. Most companies do not have 30 days to check it out. I have tried, several times, for months-long stretches to use Linux at home and eventually went back to Windows. If I can't do everything I need to natively in the OS I am using, it is not a viable option. Emulation to use software not available for my OS, software acting like another major vendor's software because it is not available for my OS, and many other of these "band-aids" and workarounds will always keep Linux off Desktops. As long as I can't use Office natively in Linux, among other software, it will stay of my desktop as well. By the way, I use Vista, and I haven't had to reboot in aboutn a month and half. I'm sure there are plenty of OSX users that haven't had to reboot in sometime as well.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By ksuWildcat on 8/6/2008 4:59:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Linux is free, but you won't see any sane IT department try to push it at their company, not if they want to keep their jobs.


Uh, perhaps not for desktops, but for any mission-critical application that demands maximum performance and uptime, yeah, experienced IT pros push Linux. Windows Server is too flaky in large-scale production environments, hence we've finally done away with all of them at work.


RE: Good to see that IBM is on the boat
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 5:38:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Windows Server is too flaky in large-scale production environments, hence we've finally done away with all of them at work.

Strange, I seem to recall reading an article recently that pointed out that Windows Server 2003 had the best uptime, beating out Red Hat and OSX Server. But I'm sure the old guard is oblivious to the fact that this isnt NT4.0, the issues surrounding performance and uptime are no longer valid excuses to go all Linux. In many cases I find it has to be Windows, since the application server itself won't run on anything other than Windows. This is becoming more and more common all the time. New releases of products are dropping Linux server support and vendors tell me just load it up on Windows '03 it will be fine. If your referring to Webservers, then yes Linux is generally a better deal with Apache + Linux rather than Windows + IIS.

Can't find the article on the server uptime, will dig around for it. But here is a recent one about updaters being compared (Also important in IT).
http://www.techworld.com.au/article/253250/windows...


By ksuWildcat on 8/7/2008 8:35:07 AM , Rating: 2
Interesting, but even once stalwart MS people in my company will admit that for critical application servers, Linux has Windows beat, hands down. Our Linux servers have absolutely zero downtime, something I cannot say for our Windows Server boxes. And performance wise, on equivalent hardware, Windows cannot even touch our Linux based machines.

But as has been pointed out, I'm not sure that Linux will catch on in the desktop segment. Although it no longer requires an expert of arcane knowledge to operate, Linux is not for the point and click crowd. It does have a learning curve, but the control one has over the machine is worth it.


By itlnstln on 8/6/2008 6:12:18 PM , Rating: 2
In the 2 years I have managed Win 2003 Servers, I have had exactly zero downtime (other than the occasional, off-hours bounce) for updates.


By itlnstln on 8/6/2008 11:02:26 AM , Rating: 2
"Because it's free."

To businesses and lay users, so is Windows since the license cost was bundled in with cost of the PC. Also, the learning curve is not free (in terms of lost productivity as users learn new software).


By TomZ on 8/6/2008 11:18:23 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Because it's free.

It's only free if your time is worth zero. That's basically a false economy for most people.


Do something that is actually noticable
By Belard on 8/6/2008 8:38:03 AM , Rating: 2
IBM should have learned something from Apple back in the 80s.

Pay for key software development! To a degree, these "big guys" are stupid for staying in the MS only camp - waiting for MS to make a version to take over another market.

Who to pay for a native Linux version:
- Adobe: All products. Sorry, GIMP ain't no Photoshop
- Intuit: Quickbooks and Quicken
- AutoCAD: Sure its not the best, but its one of the best known.
- NewTek: Considering they started on an Amiga and the number of people who would love to run Lightwave on a Linux box - why not?
- Microsoft: okay, that's not going to happen. ;)

Paying several millions to start development for these program for Linux will be the best boost over anything else.

With the browser being the most used tool, the OS becomes less important.

With games going to consoles rather than PCs, then... er, then there is less reasons to own a powerful Windows box. A crappy console game will easily out-sell an AA PC title game.

OpenOffice, while its no Office2007, its up there with Office 2000. But it needs more polish and templates designed by artist, not programmers. An Outlook equal needs to be included. Sunbird-add on for Thunderbird doesn't cut it. Luckily, I don't want or need Outlook on my PC - but many people do like it for good reasons. EssentialPIM is an excellent example of how to make a good PIM - but its still not an Outlook.

Linux is getting there, slowly. But some proper tweaks her and investments in the right place will be the way to kick Microsoft in the nuts.




By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 8:43:09 AM , Rating: 4
Well said. But I have not seen anyone attempt this approach yet. They might never take that approach. The next problem that needs to be handled is if you proceed to pay these companies off to build a Linux version of their products, which Linux flavor(s) do they build for and test against? There in lies the problem.


By Belard on 8/7/2008 6:19:03 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I have always been aware of that important issue. KDE, GNOME? While the option of choosing a GUI is awsome on Linux, its actually causes a severe problem with bringing the general users to a NON-MS OS.

Remember, 1% or less of the desktop users use Linux. Linux is very large in the server and workstation type where GUI doesn't matter very much.

This is why I've always been PRO "idiot-proof GUI" of Linux such as Lindows and what we have today with Ubuntu. KDE vs Gnome, etc. Linux fanboys are like Anime fanboys of the 80-90s in which they feel like they are in a "special club" and are more into their own self intrests than the whole community.

But the community should decide on a DESKTOP standard, a version that desktop software should work with no matter what. And if the end-user changes the desktop or different software - it may not look 100% correct, who knows. There are programs that are specifc for KDE and others for Gnome - so its a constant fight. In general, people seem to prefer Gnome. And with Ubuntu being a very popular dist. perhaps they should become a standard (They also have a professional looking logo too).

Thus, Linux can have a standard that allows "outsiders" a better chance to look at NOT using Windows. But still allows the the server and workstation market continue the way they are today.

Amiga was like the OS-X of today. The GUI is easy to use and great for beginners, but there is a shell to really get into the heart of the OS.

Amigas in the 80s~90s did amazing things, easy to work with and troubleshoot compared to Windows. Windows is messy under the hood compared to Linux - but it does WORK with lots of hardware and is a standard. Making a Linux version of an application really shouldn't be that difficult considering the roots of Mac OSX.

When Linux companies/users look at the big picture and stop going in all directions, Linux will get more traction. Look at the Amiga users from about 8~12 years ago... Commodore died. The users/companies developed odd upgrade board and more. Todays AmigaOS looks like Amiga, but its not the same. Had these people thought about it in the late 90s (And I HAD suggested this idea), all they had to do was USE LINUX, create the desktop standard (that, can be sold)and simply use off-the-shelf PC parts. Instead, even a year or so ago - they would spend hundreds of dollars for a funky motherboard that uses 2001 CPU tech that is not upgradable. One reason why? They flat out hated intel and wanted to stay with PowerPC.

Linux needs a desktop standard, period. Sure, RedHat can have their style from Ubuntu - but if both are using Gnome, then software should work the same. Installers should work 100% the same. Going into a CLI Command shell should NEVER be required from a desktop computer. Optional, yes. I would love to have Linux start gaining desktop marketshare - that would also help Apple too, in a way.


By ceefka on 8/6/2008 9:33:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Microsoft: okay, that's not going to happen. ;)


Why not? There's MS Office for the Mac.


RE: Do something that is actually noticable
By gss4w on 8/6/2008 8:45:41 PM , Rating: 2
One problem is that a big part of the Linux community believes that all software should be open source and free.

Why would companies want to spend money porting their products to a niche market segment, especially when many people in that market segment want free software.

Mac OS X has a small market share, but at least companies know that people who buy a Mac are willing to spend money on computers. Most people using desktop Linux are hobbyists who would rather use free alternatives rather than pay for software.


By Belard on 8/7/2008 6:30:00 AM , Rating: 2
Those are programmers, students. And there are many who feel that way using Windows too, yet there is software piracy.

But many of these same programmers want to make a living. So if Photoshop was made for Linux, its not required to be OPEN SOURCE or be free. There are thousands of free programs that for Windows that work very nice. I recommend them to many people. So its the same idea of thinking, eh?
Open Office is free, but you can buy it for about $20~100 with a packaged service/support version with some extras.

Free software and piracy are two different things.

quote:
Why would companies want to spend money porting their products to a niche market segment


Because the Windows market is saturated, it doesn't really grow, just upgrading. Professionals will use anything that works well... and if Linux can run Photoshop better than Windows - it will sell. Check out the number of people who want to run Lightwave on a Linux desktop - instead of just PC and Mac.

quote:
Most people using desktop Linux are hobbyists who would rather use free alternatives rather than pay for software.


Checkout download.com - thousands of software to download for free. ZoneAlarm, AVG, Agent Ransack, Space Monger, Glary, games, Open Office and much more. Most of that free, some trial.


Just because someone has to say it
By vapore0n on 8/6/2008 8:07:03 AM , Rating: 4
Lotus Notes sucks

There.

I decided to go against the flow and install Thunderbird. Way a lot more user friendly and works faster and better. Wish the whole company would move to something like this. Save on license costs too!




By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/6/2008 8:32:29 AM , Rating: 3
Lotus Notes, and Sametime as well are utter trash. I'm stuck using both here at work and I want to personally take a baseball bat (sans office space) to the servers that host this trash.


Choice IBM offers
By FITCamaro on 8/6/2008 9:47:17 AM , Rating: 3
Themselves. IBM is well known for buying companies and phasing out their products for its own. At least Microsoft doesn't lie about it.




RE: Choice IBM offers
By codeThug on 8/6/2008 11:57:45 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, L. Ron Ballmer is the noble prince of software.


The problem isn't choice
By zshift on 8/6/2008 10:52:07 AM , Rating: 2
The biggest problem out there isn't that Linux isn't as good as windows, that it's easier/harder to use. It's marketing. That's how Microsoft did it, and it's what linux needs to do to get big. There is also very little retail support for linux. Sure, Best Buy sells ubuntu and they used to sell opensuse, but how many times have you seen these in the stores or even offered by an employee. If people were to get together and make a commercial showing the things linux can do, I'm sure that would have a huge impact.




RE: The problem isn't choice
By MarioJP on 8/8/2008 12:22:15 AM , Rating: 2
Windows maybe losing the server front but when it comes to gaming. MS has a heavy marketing with games for windows and the 360. And fact you can plug in your 360 gamepad on a windows box and it just works just like that.

But nevertheless this is a tricky and uneasy topic of discussion. Just curious how this topic will end lol.


My Suggestion to Ubuntu
By swizeus on 8/6/2008 12:24:05 PM , Rating: 2
One thing small but disturbing is its graphic. Take a look at windows XP or Vista. They don't have any glitches or any misplacement(s) in the desktop. Don't complain me about being comparing david with goliath but windows is the trendsetter (at least for me).

Second, Some users (including me or perhaps just me) tend to say windows is heavy but actually Microsoft do done a great job to make its windows runs independently while stay fast. Independently here mean, windows doesn't depend on updates and even with updates the windows not so heavy. On the other hand, i tried Ubuntu and they have TONS of upgrades for my laptop (it IS sucks to download an extra 300 MB in the 3rd world country) and even when i manage to download them, the linux itself become extremely heavy (loading slowly and not responsive) Please do fix this for further updates

The Rest is great. Extremely great
The best is a totally free CD being delivered to your door
Long Live Linux




RE: My Suggestion to Ubuntu
By MarioJP on 8/8/2008 12:17:16 AM , Rating: 2
For those that thinks that games are going to consoles

http://www.n4g.com/pc/News-180379.aspx

I beg to differ and i think its going both ways


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