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An 8-core Cell procesor die
Cell processor reliability details may surprise you

As Sony's PlayStation 3 console nears its official release, more focus has turned to the technical wizardry that lays inside the actual machine. The Cell processor, developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba, has gained a great deal of attention over the last year. In an interview with Electronic News however, IBM vice president of Semiconductor and Technology Services Tom Reeves says that his company is lucky if it can get 10% to 20% yields on the Cell processor.

The Cell processor is so complex that IBM even accepts chips that have only four out of the eight cores working. Not all cores end up functional says Reeves. In regards to why the yields are so low, Reeves says "[defects becomes a bigger problem the bigger the chip is. With chips that are one-by-one and silicon germanium, we can get yields of 95 percent. With a chip like the Cell processor, you’re lucky to get 10 or 20 percent. If you put logic redundancy on it, you can double that." According to Reeves, Sony will be using Cell processors whether they have all cores functional or not. Reeves says that the PlayStation 3 requires at least seven of the eight cores operational.

According to Reeves, IBM is still debating whether or not to discard the processors that have only six or less cores operational. Because of the design, the processors are still operational and can be used for various applications. IBM says that it will reserve the top chips for applications such as medical imaging and defense applications.

With Reeves' statements, it appears as though Sony will be producing PlayStation 3 consoles with different Cell processors -- some with all eight cores operational and some with just seven. Reeves however does not believe that Sony will offer different pricing for the machines and only time will tell if there will be performance differences. Reeves says however that users will not see any differences in speed. "The PlayStation 3 only uses seven of [the eight cores]. You'd have a spare."

In the interview, Reeves also talks about failure rate as there is a possibility that one of the cores in the Cell will "blow" at any given time. Reeves says that usually, testing during fabrication stages will detect whether a core or more will be problematic. Using electrical "fuses", IBM can "blow" out a core during wafer testing. When asked what would happen if a 7-core PlayStation 3 ends up losing another core during operation, Reeves stated that the user would simply send the unit back for replacement. Unfortunately, this only applies if the console is still under warranty -- if it isn't, the console is dead.

Over the last several months, speculation over the PlayStation 3's official retail costs have caused many gamers to sit up and take notice. Some analysts believe that Sony's new toy will cost too much to compete but Sony has said that the entry price will not affect the PlayStation 3's adoption. Considering the extremely low yields on the Cell processor in conjunction with extensive testing time to make sure final PlayStation 3 consoles ship with reliable processors, the high introductory pricing of the PlayStation 3 begins to show its true reasons. Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) president Ken Kutaragi previously said that if the PlayStation 3 was priced at $599, it would actually be "too cheap."


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OUCH
By ksherman on 7/13/2006 7:53:39 AM , Rating: 2
seems we keep getting more bad news about the PS3...

Seriuosly though, I would be pissed if near half of my chip was defective and that was just fine with the manufacturer...

So what does IBM do with the 80% that are too messed up to be used? melt them down and try again? can you do that? Seems like one more component that is driving the cost of producing the PS3 through the roof. I am of the belief that we wont see a PS3 this year... If we do, maybe I will buy one to put up on eBay :-)




RE: OUCH
By crazydingo on 7/13/2006 8:23:34 AM , Rating: 2
A Sony official will comment on this saying the Cell yeilds are EXCELLENT and that this IBM employee mixed up his numbers.

Later the IBM employee is fired. Oh wait! He is not a Sony employee. LOL


RE: OUCH
By threepac3 on 7/13/2006 10:26:05 AM , Rating: 2
IBM is not the only company that manufactures Cell processors. Sony themselves have fabs that build CELL processors. So if Sony says that there yeilds are "Excellent", you can't possibly equate that to mean IBM as well.


RE: OUCH
By Griswold on 7/13/2006 11:40:31 AM , Rating: 3
I dunno, but if IBM has yield problems, odds are that sony will have even bigger problems - or at least the same.


RE: OUCH
By Kilim on 7/13/2006 12:36:09 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, if IBM is having problems, with their deserved reputation for engineering capability, I think Sony may be worse off.


RE: OUCH
By delta53 on 7/13/2006 10:33:57 PM , Rating: 2
Sony has fab plants but IBM is in the top two in the world (along with Intel). I don't believe that Sony has good enough fab plant to build the cell processor.


RE: OUCH
By Darkon on 7/16/2006 6:56:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sony has fab plants but IBM is in the top two in the world (along with Intel). I don't believe that Sony has good enough fab plant to build the cell processor.


your joking right ? sony has one of the most high tech semiconductor facilities around , Nagasaki fab is sony's crownjewel hell it's IBM who only has one fab that is capable of producing cell which Sony invested 36 billion in.


RE: OUCH
By Darkon on 7/16/2006 6:57:34 AM , Rating: 2
i meant 36 billion yen


RE: OUCH
By tuteja1986 on 7/14/2006 3:42:07 AM , Rating: 1
I knew about this ages ago ;( also its almost official that Cell processor clock speed will be reduced to 2.8Ghz. Also sony is sucking up all the Blu-ray LED for itself and giving its partners crap all.


simple solution
By Wwhat on 7/13/2006 1:58:15 PM , Rating: 2
Simple solution for PS3, 2 sockets, with 2 bad cell's with only 3 or 4 cores working, and voila, instant fix for poor yields.





RE: simple solution
By MAIA on 7/13/2006 2:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
You're joking ... right ?


hahh
By desiplaya4life on 7/13/2006 3:01:02 PM , Rating: 2
SOny think they have better yields than IBM-the pinnacle of engineering. I am definitely not purchasing a ps3 now. and the ibm rep fired? for what? speaking the truth. sheesh sony is just mad he blurted it out. If i purchase something i have the right to know the exact detail of that cell processor (whether how many cores are working) or else they are misleading the consumers thinking all 8 cores work when im paying for just 6-7.


RE: hahh
By secretanchitman on 7/13/2006 3:48:32 PM , Rating: 2
well i for one am NOT getting a ps3 even if it has .1 of a core disabled. if im paying 500-600 bucks for a goddamned console, i better be getting my moneys worth. stupid ken kutaragi or whatever his name is, he thinks that the ps3 is priced too cheap. well sony, you should have used tried and true components instead of completely new technology which youve had years to develop and now is getting poor yields for all 8 cores to be functional. i absolutely refuse to get a ps3 that has less than 8 cores FULLY available.

sony, you are surely pissing some people off. ill be darned surprised if you get even 1 working ps3 out the door in november.


RE: simple solution
By Wwhat on 7/13/2006 11:33:21 PM , Rating: 2
How so? the cell is designed to be interconnected, so it should work, and if they seriously have a yield that low then I don't see what other choice there is, they want to sell a console with some profit, or minimal loss, and don't forget, it's sony, it's not like their qualitystandards are the highest on the planet now are they?


RE: simple solution
By MAIA on 7/14/2006 7:02:23 AM , Rating: 2
Work ? Yes, it should work, but only after Sony re-designs a significant part of the console architecture. That means more investment, and more money and time wasted. There would be two architectures to support, that would double some of the parts needed in terms of production and warranty. Sony would loose even more money, not profit.

Tech-wise speaking, even if cell is designed to be interconnected, two processors working on SMP is a whole different picture than one CPU having several cores. SMP require more flow logic control and communication between CPU's is much slower. As i see it, it's a no-go at all.


RE: simple solution
By Wwhat on 7/14/2006 8:40:09 PM , Rating: 2
Well from memory of glanced-over newsitems I seem to recall that the CELL is specifically designed to be very easily expanded by simply plugging in more of them, and if this is so they could just put in an extra PCB to hold them, a classic 'slotket' if you will, I know it's a bit farfetched in a way, but so is 10% yield on an actual shipping CPU..
I guess we'd need a cell-cpu expert to tell how possible it is in practise.


RE: simple solution
By Tyler 86 on 7/16/2006 6:55:37 AM , Rating: 2
1 core = 1 PPU, 7 or 8 SPEs, 256MB CPU accessible
2 cores = 2 PPUs, 6 to 8 SPEs, 256-512MB accessible

Yeah, they can just plug another one in if they make 'em like they need 'em made to do that...

The SPE & PPU assignment can be done by the PS3's software, the only problem is how much does two half cost over one full? Heck, it might even be cheaper... but somehow, I doubt it...
All the chips, 1 SPE functional, to 8 SPEs functional, are the same size on silicon...



RE: simple solution
By Tyler 86 on 7/16/2006 6:58:19 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe they'll take a page out of Intel's book, ala first iteration Pentium D, and put 2 pieces of Cell CPU silicon on a single Cell package... that'd save 'em the retooling of the motherboards, but it'd probably do something exponential to thermal dissipation requirements...


Definately NOT getting a PS3!
By DigitalFreak on 7/13/2006 9:35:15 AM , Rating: 2
Now we hear that it's possible one of the cores could blow-out? In the decades I've been dealing with technology, I've never heard anyone say that their chip could blow out. It will be interesting to see what the failure rate for the PS3 is once it's released.




RE: Definately NOT getting a PS3!
By PrinceGaz on 7/13/2006 9:47:52 AM , Rating: 2
If it fails you can always return it under warranty. And if the warrany has expired, you can buy another one :)


RE: Definately NOT getting a PS3!
By threepac3 on 7/13/2006 10:22:20 AM , Rating: 2