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Honda CR-Z hybrid concept

2009 Honda Fit (second generation)
Honda looks to expand its hybrid lineup for 2009

Toyota's Prius may be the poster child for hybrid automobiles in the U.S., but it was Honda who first brought a modern gasoline-electric hybrid vehicle to our shores. The two-seat Insight was introduced in 1999 as a 2000 model and was discontinued in 2006.

The demise of the Accord Hybrid -- whose replacement will come in the form of an Accord diesel -- leaves just the Civic hybrid in Honda's hybrid portfolio. Honda hopes to change that, however, for 2009.

Three new models will help bolster Honda's efforts in the realm of gasoline-electric hybrids. The first model will be a production version of the CR-Z concept. The two-seat vehicle picks up where the Insight left off and includes a Civic Hybrid powertrain (4-cylinder gasoline engine, Honda Integrated Motor Assist, and a continuously variable transmission) that has been shrouded with sleeker bodywork.

The second model will be five-door hatchback with seating for five. The Global Small Hybrid (GSH) is taking direct aim at Toyota's popular Prius and is expected to be similar in design to the FCX Clarity hydrogen fuel cell vehicle according to Forbes. Early estimates on price for the GSH are in the $22,000 range. Total global sales are pegged at 200,000 units per year.

The third model will be a hybrid version of Honda's second generation Fit subcompact vehicle. Americans are currently able to purchase the first generation Fit which is rated at 28/34 MPG (city/highway) with the manual transmission -- the second generation model is expected to improve upon those numbers slightly. Furthermore, a hybrid version would likely push the numbers higher by another 15 to 20 percent.

"Hybrids have drawn attention for their image, but time has come to go to the next step," said Honda president Takeo Fukui.

With fuel prices quickly approaching (or already exceeding) $4.00 per gallon in many parts of the U.S., Honda’s new hybrid entries should arrive just in time to satisfy a buying public that is slowly stepping away from large body-on-frame SUVs and pickups.

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1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By Angelus911 on 5/22/2008 3:11:12 PM , Rating: 3
My dad's 1992 Honda Civic, first model with the V-Tec engine, was able to get between 50-55 MPG on the highway, and after 250,000 miles, it still got around 40-45 MPG on the highway. How come there aren't more cars out there today? Granted this thing seemed like a tin box, it still got you from point A to point B.




RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By noxipoo on 5/22/2008 3:38:35 PM , Rating: 2
more weight for safety, emissions and lux items. mostly safety and emissions on lower end models.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By Spuke on 5/22/2008 4:19:58 PM , Rating: 2
Mostly safety equipment and luxury items becoming standard equipment. The old Civic's weighed less than 2200 lbs too. Today's Civic weighs closer to 2800 lbs.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By FITCamaro on 5/23/2008 9:48:43 AM , Rating: 3
Exactly. Except its more the safety equipment and luxury stuff. Emissions equipment isn't that big or heavy. 20-30lbs at most.

I'm up to 30-31 mpg average in my Cobalt. I've started driving a little more conservatively (not slower) and coasting more(gotta love manuals).

Of course premium here just hit $4.00 a gallon. Went up 20 cents in one day. Hopefully its just because of the holiday weekend. I pray it goes back down. But thats about as likely to happen as me winning the lotto.


By phxfreddy on 5/27/2008 11:21:49 PM , Rating: 2
I would believe that is the Mexican OverDrive option you speak about.

That can be quite a quite costly option on a percentage basis with the smaller models of car.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By 16nm on 5/22/2008 4:53:53 PM , Rating: 1
Some things to keep in mind:

1. The speed limit 16 years ago was much lower than it is today
2. Gas today is almost always 10% ethanol
3. Today, emissions on the Honda Civic are much better (ULEV2)

All of these points affect fuel economy but #1 is the most significant.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By Spuke on 5/22/2008 5:35:46 PM , Rating: 1
Sorry. Even in my rolling brick there is absolutely no difference in gas mileage between 55 and 65 mph. Also, just because the speed limit was 55 doesn't mean people were all driving 55. Why do you think the limits were raised? I'll answer it for you. Because people WEREN'T driving 55 mph.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By Ringold on 5/22/2008 6:05:27 PM , Rating: 2
Eh, that defies physics if there is no difference in gas mileage between 55 and 65.

In Consumer Reports last issue, I remember they tested a Camry. 55mph = 40mpg. 65mph = 35mpg, if memory serves.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By Spuke on 5/22/2008 7:13:58 PM , Rating: 1
I'm talking about real world driving conditions not the so-called consumer reports guesstimates. If there is a difference, it's less than 1 mpg. This on MY car. And no it doesn't defy physics either.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By Ringold on 5/22/2008 9:39:02 PM , Rating: 4
Consumer Reports uses real world testing conditions. They get on real roads with real traffic and monitor fuel consumption.

It does defy physics, as drag increases distressingly fast with speed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient

Note the ^2 over the 'v' term.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By Spuke on 5/23/2008 12:36:43 AM , Rating: 3
Then my car must not be as horrible as I am led to believe. Either way, gas mileage at 55 vs 65 in my car is virtually the same (within 1 mpg).


By teldar on 5/23/2008 8:03:36 AM , Rating: 2
I get a couple miles difference between upper 50
s and 65-ish. And I'm talking about a difference between 25 and 27 mpg.
T


By Integral9 on 5/23/2008 9:39:59 AM , Rating: 3
While the force does increase by the square, I think you are forgetting that you are multiplying the square of the velocity by two decimals and then dividing it in half. This greatly reduces the squares effect on the equation where the velocity is less than 100.

The drag coefficient of a 2005 Toyota Camry is .28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient) and according to Car and Driver, the average crossectional area of a full size passenger car is .79 m^2 (from the same article you referenced). Plug that into the equation for F due to drag (on the page you referenced) and graph the results over velocity (I used Excel). You'll find that the force due to drag is relatively low when speeds are under 100mps (meters per second). It also increases dramatically after 100mps.

Based on my results, at 100MPH, the force of drag based on the above numbers is about 210 N. at 55mph, 65 N; at 65mph, 93 N. Resulting in a difference of only 38 N and that's hardly anything to a 200HP engine found in a Camry.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By FITCamaro on 5/23/2008 9:44:28 AM , Rating: 2
It depends what difference in RPM there is between the two speeds. It sounds like he's got a V8 SUV so the difference between 55mph and 65mph is probably 150-200 rpm. That's not going to noticeably affect mileage. In a smaller car with a smaller engine, it has to work harder to hold the higher speed.

Thats why in large vehicles, smaller engines typically get the same or worse mileage than larger engines. They have to work harder.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By 16nm on 5/23/2008 12:43:05 PM , Rating: 2
well, if an V8 SUV gets 12MPG at 65 and then 13MPG at 55 then that's an 8% improvement


By FredEx on 5/24/2008 11:57:50 AM , Rating: 3
That is just the Camry. It does not mean that will be the case with all vehicles. The power band of the engine also has to be taken into consideration. Not all engines reach their peak efficiency on the highway at the same RPM, hence MPH. His engine could be running more efficiently at the PRM it takes to get his car moving at 65 MPH than it does at 55 MPH and it could be offsetting the increase in drag. Overall then he sees no change in MPG.


RE: 1992 Honda Civic got 50MPG easily
By 91TTZ on 5/23/2008 9:25:14 AM , Rating: 2
While the speed limit has changed, the average speed hasn't changed much at all. People are going to drive at a speed that they feel is suitable on that road regardless of what a sign says.


By Hiawa23 on 5/23/2008 9:21:33 AM , Rating: 2
My dad's 1992 Honda Civic, first model with the V-Tec engine, was able to get between 50-55 MPG on the highway, and after 250,000 miles, it still got around 40-45 MPG on the highway. How come there aren't more cars out there today? Granted this thing seemed like a tin box, it still got you from point A to point B.

The Honda Civics get great mileage even today. I have a 1997 Honda Civic with 221000 miles on it & it still gets over 30 MPG. Back in 2006 I made the mistake of buying the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart, with the 2.4L engine & on the sticker it said 25/29 MPG, but I drive the old Civic more cause it gets better mileage, so I don't plan on buying another car anytime soon, but with these hybrids you would think that they would be able to make the body package more appealing & more sportier, cause most of em are ugly, & I know gas prices are increasing, but I would rather buy an appealing Honda that got 30-45 than these unappealing hybrids.


By Klober on 5/27/2008 10:48:11 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree with the OP. I don't necessarily know about 50-55mpg, but I do know about 40mpg. I had a '97 Civic HX, my first brand new car. The HX model came with just about everything standard, including aluminum alloy wheels, sunroof and V-TEC engine (cruise control was about the only thing missing). It didn't matter how I drove it, I always got 37-42mpg, usually 40-41mpg, and that was in Arizona (as many people know, the higher the temperature the worse your gas mileage and horsepower). One day I saw an Insight owner at a gas station and I had to ask, "What kind of mileage do you get?" His reply? 35-40mpg. First thing through my head was "WTF?! How the hell does this guy drive?" Don't get me wrong, I used to love to gun it off the line and downshift a couple of gears on the highway for that extra boost of speed (I used to drive *slightly* more aggresively than I do now), but it didn't adversely affect my mileage. And yes, that was as late as '02 and driving 70-80mph. I just don't understand the problem with low gas mileage in "modern" cars.


Volkswagen Version
By jhb116 on 5/22/2008 11:54:33 AM , Rating: 2
I'm hoping the Volkswagen TDI Hybrid makes to our shores as well. I was hoping to upgrade to a mid-sized car in a year or two, however, I would seriously consider sticking with a small car that can get me over 60 mpg.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/revealed-volksw...

The Big 3 better get with it and start getting serious about mpg's.