backtop


Print 63 comment(s) - last by otispunkmeyer.. on Oct 27 at 8:41 AM


Honda has already axed the S2000.

The tiny CR-Z will carry the "sports" torch for Honda and will be priced from $19k to $25k.

Crosstown rival Toyota goes the conventional route with a RWD sports car which was co-developed with Subaru -- it will be in the same price range as the CR-Z. The production version of the FT-86 is expected to be shown next year.

While Honda has killed plans for its V-10 powered NSX replacement, Toyota just pulled the wraps off its ultra-exclusive Lexus LFA.
Honda is really taking "going green" seriously

The company that brought us small, nimble, sporty, FWD vehicles like the CRX, Prelude, Integra, and RSX is slowly giving in to the green movement. While Honda was content in stepping things up to the next level with the expensive, mid-engined, RWD NSX during the early 90s and the lightweight S2000 roadster later in the decade, those days are coming to an end (the NSX is long gone and the S2000 was recently given the axe).

Honda is now turning almost completely away from performance vehicles and instead intends to “green” its lineup. Going forward, the “sport” end of the spectrum for Honda will be relegated to the Civic Si and the upcoming CR-Z hybrid. The CR-Z uses the hybrid powertrain from the Civic Hybrid/Insight and pairs it with a 6-speed manual transmission. The 161-inch vehicle is expected to be priced from $19,000 to $25,000.

While Toyota plans to wow gear heads with money to spend with the $375,000 V-10 powered limited production (500 units worldwide total) Lexus LFA super car and the much cheaper, RWD FT-86 sports car; Honda has cancelled the V-10-powered replacement for the NSX. According to Temple of VTEC, Honda has no plans to introduce another sports car to the market unless it can incorporate hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or hydrogen technology.

Honda CEO Takanobu Ito told Temple of VTEC, “Once we come up with these new, innovative technologies that we are researching - once we have (an) abundance of cash on hand - I would definitely love to see Honda develop a sports car which would symbolize these technologies. And, once that day comes, the sportscar will NOT be something like Toyota announced yesterday, but instead it will be environmentally friendly (while) at the same time enjoying outstanding performance. I'd love to do that."

In other news, Honda has also cancelled plans to bring a diesel engine to the U.S for its Accord sedan due to cost issues. The Accord was to have an optional 2.2-liter i-CTDi 4-cylinder Tier 2 Bin 5 diesel engine which produces 150 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque. The diesel engine would have also given the Accord an overall fuel economy rating of about 40 mpg. Also cancelled are plans for a larger 3.5-liter V6 diesel engine which was destined to go into Honda's large vehicles which include the Odyssey, Pilot, and Ridgeline. The diesel engine was supposed to give these vehicles a 30 increase in fuel economy.

While Honda has made an effort to embrace all-electric vehicles with the recently showcased EV-N concept, Honda's CEO continues to state that hydrogen is the future for consumer vehicles.





Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Disappointed by the Cancelled Diesels
By ashishmishra on 10/22/2009 9:33:08 PM , Rating: 4
I was really looking forward to Honda bringing in the highly acclaimed 2.2I4 and 3.5V6 Diesel engines. I understand there would have been some sticker shock but at least it would have increased diesel engine's acceptance in passenger cars in public's eyes.




RE: Disappointed by the Cancelled Diesels
By randomposter on 10/22/2009 10:10:18 PM , Rating: 2
I was looking forward to this as well. When Honda puts their engineers on something the result is generally pretty impressive, and I would have liked to see them advance the art of passenger car diesel.

I am confused that Honda thinks Diesel != Green given the fuel economy performance of today's common rail designs.


RE: Disappointed by the Cancelled Diesels
By Hoser McMoose on 10/23/2009 1:17:14 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
I am confused that Honda thinks Diesel != Green given the fuel economy performance of today's common rail designs.

They use less fuel but, generally speaking, produce more air pollution than gasoline engines.

Granted today's diesels are much better than those of just 3 or 4 years ago, but the 'green' aspect of diesels has always been very questionable. If your concern is CO2 emissions than diesels are better, if your concern is air pollution than diesels are worse.

Case in point, the Audi A3 2.0L diesel manages a fairly impressive Tier 2 Bin 5 rating (minimum rating to be legal for sale in California). However the A3 2.0L gas engine manages a much more stringent Tier 2 Bin 3 rating, basically HALF as much air pollution. The diesel though is rated for 18.4kg of CO2 per 100km (6.9L/100km) while the gasoline A3 is rated for 22.7kg of CO2 per 100km (9.8L/100km).


By Yawgm0th on 10/23/2009 11:01:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They use less fuel but, generally speaking, produce more air pollution than gasoline engines.

Granted today's diesels are much better than those of just 3 or 4 years ago, but the 'green' aspect of diesels has always been very questionable. If your concern is CO2 emissions than diesels are better, if your concern is air pollution than diesels are worse.
QFT
I don't know why people are so up in arms about the unsure effect of CO2 emissions on global warming when we know exactly what the pollutants in car exhaust do now. If smog kills us before the polar ice caps melt, what's the point of carbon reduction?


RE: Disappointed by the Cancelled Diesels
By AmazighQ on 10/23/2009 11:49:35 AM , Rating: 4
the problem aint using diesel or no diesel
the problem is building 3 ton(metric) cars to transport a singel person and sticking an 'ancient' 5 liter engine in it


RE: Disappointed by the Cancelled Diesels
By Spuke on 10/23/2009 6:52:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the problem is building 3 ton(metric) cars to transport a singel person and sticking an 'ancient' 5 liter engine in it
Not aware of any 3 ton vehicles that have 5L engines.


By xsilver on 10/25/2009 10:26:25 PM , Rating: 2
I think that would be referring to a hummer or an escalade.

they actually have 5+ litre engines


RE: Disappointed by the Cancelled Diesels
By Samus on 10/23/2009 1:41:17 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed this is very disappointing.

I guess Volkswagon will continue to reap all the deisel momentum. I remember back in June they outsold all other car manufactures, most of which were deisels. And those always carry many thousands of dollars price premium, so I don't think that's an issue with the consumer. People want deisels because they use less fuel and are exceptionally reliable.


By Spuke on 10/23/2009 7:03:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I remember back in June they outsold all other car manufactures, most of which were deisels.
VW has never outsold every car manufacturer. VW, at least in the US, is nearly a niche car manufacturer with only 160,000 in TOTAL sales so far this year. Toyota sold more Corolla's in that same period (215,000).


By Mint on 10/23/2009 4:50:58 PM , Rating: 2
Diesel is not green. If cars shifted to diesel, you'd see diesel prices go up and gas would go down. When you refine crude oil, you produce both gas and diesel, so the supply ratio will always be fixed.

The result would either be trucks switching to now-cheaper gas or less incentive for people to replace their gas guzzlers.

Finally, as the other posters mentioned, diesels pollute. Who cares about CO2 when air pollution already kills so many people in our cities. I believe in AGW, but I also believe its projections and consequences are exaggerated. PHEV is really the only green tech worth pursuing.


By Brazos on 10/22/2009 10:11:13 PM , Rating: 3
I'd kill for a CRV with a turbo diesel.


By ksherman on 10/22/2009 11:17:48 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. Was really considering an Accord diesel for my next car. Looks like I'm goin' to a Golf TDI next!


By otispunkmeyer on 10/27/2009 8:41:47 AM , Rating: 2
this sucks for you guys

honda's 2.2 CDTi engine is a very good engine indeed. i've driven the new civic with it and it suits the car very well. i couldnt believe how easy this thing revs!

sure its got the diesel clatter on start up but once its warm it quiets down. the lower than normal compression ratio helps too. then theres the smoothness of the power delivery! and the civic being relatively light compared to some rivals absolutely flies with this engine. its faster than the petrol!


Nice designs
By Evan B on 10/22/2009 9:04:06 PM , Rating: 3
Seems like some nice looking cars are in the works. That FT-86 looks kinda like a 370Z to me.




RE: Nice designs
By randomposter on 10/22/2009 10:10:59 PM , Rating: 2
... or a Genesis coupe


RE: Nice designs
By chrnochime on 10/22/2009 10:40:13 PM , Rating: 1
...and the Genesis coupe itself is a mishmash of a bunch of other cars. Your point?


RE: Nice designs
By randomposter on 10/23/2009 11:51:39 AM , Rating: 2
... and those other cars were themselves a mishmash of a bunch of previous other cars. Your point?


RE: Nice designs
By redman2025 on 10/23/2009 1:56:21 PM , Rating: 2
We have just witnessed a car paradox!


RE: Nice designs
By Spuke on 10/23/2009 7:09:34 PM , Rating: 1
I am REALLY eager to see how the FT-86 turns out!!! They only say that it has a 2L Subie motor. I REALLY hope it's turbocharged AND has direct injection. If it isn't turbo'd then it better be lightweight. None of this 3000 lb, 170hp BS. Although the fact that it's RWD is really exciting. Here's to hoping the other automakers respond to this. I would love to see "cheap" RWD cars hit the market again.


RE: Nice designs
By Brandon Hill on 10/22/2009 10:49:26 PM , Rating: 2
I don't care what it looks like -- the fact that Toyota has made a good-looking RWD sports car that is going to be sub-$25,000 is music to my ears. Who would have thought that the company that has bored us to death with the Camry, Prius, and Corolla would bring such goodness to us?

I thought that they had forgotten all about the MR2, Celica, and Supra. I guess all they needed was a kick start from Subaru.

That being said, all rumors point to this thing have a naturally aspirated, direct-injection version of Subaru's flat-four producing around 200 hp. Given that it's based on Subaru's engine, it's likely there'll be a turbo version in the future :-)

Also, weight is pegged to be around 2,800 - 2,900 lbs.

Let's just hope that this thinly disguised concept makes it through relatively unscathed to production trim.


RE: Nice designs
By dubldwn on 10/23/2009 1:41:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't care what it looks like -- the fact that Toyota has made a good-looking RWD sports car that is going to be sub-$25,000 is music to my ears.

Totally. And the photos in the link show a REAL manual transmission. This is a must drive.


RE: Nice designs
By Spuke on 10/23/2009 7:18:01 PM , Rating: 2
I'm really excited about this car. I might buy it even with the power deficit (compared to my car). I'll have to see what kind of aftermarket pops up around it. There's not too many DI NA engines on the market and the one's that are have 12:1 compression. Yummy!!!! Sounds like some high rpm goodness to me.

Please God, let it be a closed deck block with some lightweight, high revving, 12:1 compression goodness under the hood. And please God let the ECU be from Bosch so we can crack that puppy a week after it's released. Oh, and God, can I get a set of these for it too?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xAW6O1fFlVQ/Sbkm6IlmISI/...


RE: Nice designs
By Alexvrb on 10/23/2009 8:53:02 PM , Rating: 2
200HP seems a bit underpowered unless its main target is the Civic Si. Oh well, I'm sure they'll have body kits, spoilers, and coffee can mufflers available in the aftermarket to keep owners of this car happy.

Or they could just drop a freakin turbo'd H4 in it and maybe see some actual performance.


Who is buying these green vehicles
By KnightBreed on 10/23/2009 12:49:35 PM , Rating: 2
I don't get it. The Prius is the only hybrid that sells in legitimate volume. Now every company has plans for more hybrids and electric vehicles, but where is the demand? Who is going to buy one?

I think all the automakers are in for an unfortunate surprise when the Leaf, Volt, and other hybrid/electrics from Ford, Chrysler, and Honda -- not to mention Fisker, Reva, Aptera, and Tesla -- hit the market in 2011/12 with a gigantic thud. That is a lot of new models for what is so far a very small market.




RE: Who is buying these green vehicles
By randomposter on 10/23/2009 12:57:00 PM , Rating: 2
Since when is the automobile market a very small market?

Seems to me there is more than enough demand for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Fisker, Reva, Aptera, Tesla, and more. I'm pretty sure 90% of end consumers wouldn't care if the car is hybrid if it does essentially the same things at essentially the same price.


By Redwin on 10/23/2009 1:25:52 PM , Rating: 2
at essentially the same price -- This is the problem with your statement.

A hybrid drive-train will not be the same price (not even "essentially" so) as a traditional drive-train for a very long time, if ever. Combining 2 power sources with complicated gearing simply takes a good bit more engineering and money than using 1 engine with a normal transmission.


RE: Who is buying these green vehicles
By Noya on 10/24/2009 5:17:09 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't get it. The Prius is the only hybrid that sells in legitimate volume. Now every company has plans for more hybrids and electric vehicles, but where is the demand? Who is going to buy one?


Have you been in a cave the last year or so?

Don't you know the whole "going green" initiative is going to save the world AND our economy? (sarcasm)

The government will CAFE and carbon tax people and companies into "going green."


Prelude
By Drag0nFire on 10/23/2009 2:35:13 AM , Rating: 3
is a great car. I wish they made more like that.




RE: Prelude
By Noya on 10/24/2009 1:20:21 AM , Rating: 2
I agree.

My second car was a mint 1995 VTEC Prelude that I tastefully modified (cold-air intake, header, exhaust, springs/bushings/dampers/strut bars and fairly lightweight Rota wheels with sticky Falken rubber).

Man that was a fun car.


Good way to go broke...
By Beenthere on 10/23/2009 9:49:33 AM , Rating: 2
If Honda is counting on the U.S. buying green vehicles, they must plan on going broke and closing their doors soon.




RE: Good way to go broke...
By randomposter on 10/23/2009 10:48:27 AM , Rating: 3
Who's going broke and closing their doors? Honda or the U.S.?


No Accord Diesel - Hello Prius
By nofumble62 on 10/23/2009 12:10:56 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry Honda




RE: No Accord Diesel - Hello Prius
By Lord 666 on 10/23/2009 7:47:53 AM , Rating: 2
Perfect example of car manufacturers not listening to customers. Build it and they will come.

Looks like my 06 TDI will be in my drive a bit longer. Love that car, but need a bit more room.


I'm not sure it's worth it
By JDub02 on 10/23/2009 9:08:29 AM , Rating: 1
They just announced that they're not going to produce the vehicles people want. Instead, they're going to focus on what the current crop of politicians want.

Honda just traded good business sense for current political gain. Maybe they're positioning themselves to get some of that Obama money. I bet if they name a car or come up with a song to honor the dear leader, they'll get it.

Introducing the 2011 Honda Obamaccord.




RE: I'm not sure it's worth it
By Dorkyman on 10/23/2009 10:39:06 AM , Rating: 2
I think this has a lot to do with it. This time next year they will see that the leftward lurch will be mostly gone.


What a shame
By thekdub on 10/22/2009 10:40:01 PM , Rating: 2
Kinda disappointing to me. Honda has always been good at making fun, sporty cars. Even if they weren't always the fastest things on the road, many of their cars are genuinely fun to drive thanks to low weight and peppy but efficient engines. Mostly practical too, except for maybe the S2000 and the NSX. Wonder what they're going to do regarding the Civic Si, which is pretty much the last "sporty" car in their lineup.

A bit odd seeing this news today as well, as just earlier today I took my '97 Del Sol out on some back roads for a little spirited driving.




By marsbound2024 on 10/23/2009 12:47:15 AM , Rating: 2
Personally, I am quite pleased with my 2009 Honda Accord coupe. It has a classy look with a hint of sporty to it. It's no 350Z/370Z nor even is it like Toyota's concept aforementioned in the article, but it pleases me enough. Also, it gets good fuel economy and is rated as an Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle.

So they should have the "green" part already down pat. They should be able to make a sporty car that is green and looks nice. I am sure they could design a small six cylinder engine and make the car light enough so that its fuel economy averages in the mid 20s. Then all they have to do is craft a nice shell for that sporty look and you have a beautiful looking car with fun-to-driveability all for under say $25,000-$27,000. If they don't go the small V6 route, then just put a big four cylinder like a 2.4 or 2.5 liter with a small bodied car like the Civic. The Accord is rather large even in the coupe style and this--along with the four cylinder engine I have--attributes to the average acceleration I think. Of course the Accord coupe comes in a V6 flavor but it is around $30,000 and gets less fuel economy. Personally, at the $30k price range I would be starting to look at the entry level BMWs or the 370Z (if I have enough money to happily spend $30,000 comfortably then I'm not going to care much if it gets less gas mileage).




Honda has been done for a long time.
By NA1NSXR on 10/23/2009 1:23:11 AM , Rating: 2
Shigeru Uehara retired almost two years ago. People who really enjoy Honda sports on a deep level know its been over for a long time.




...that's why they have Acura.
By CZroe on 10/23/2009 3:41:43 AM , Rating: 2
All the benefit of earning green points with the people who care while still selling high-end cars to the enthusiasts and fanatical supports... that's why they have Acura. In Japan, it's all just "Honda."

There would be a problem if they suddenly stopped making Honda supersport bikes.




No more S2000? :(
By MagicSquid on 10/23/2009 11:22:49 AM , Rating: 2
So sad that they're getting rid of one of the most fun cars on the road, the S2000.




By on 10/24/2009 9:06:03 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.myyshop.com

Best quality, Best reputation , Best services

Quality is our Dignity; Service is our Lift.

Myyshop.com commodity is credit guarantee, you can rest assured of purchase, myyshop will provide service for you all, welcome to myyshop.com

Air Jordan 7 Retro Size 10 Blk/Red Raptor - $34

100% Authentic Brand New in Box DS Air Jordan 7 Retro Raptor colorway

Never Worn, only been tried on the day I bought them back in 2002

$35Firm; no trades

http://www.myyshop.com/productlist.asp?id=s14 (Jordan)




So.....
By Iketh on 10/24/2009 3:44:47 PM , Rating: 2
What will happen when every car is running on hydrogen and every city begins raining like seattle?




Talk about disillusioned
By Headfoot on 10/22/09, Rating: -1
RE: Talk about disillusioned
By randomposter on 10/22/2009 10:07:48 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I guess it's hard to prove it scientifically though when your evidence comes from heat sensors next to fast food joints or huge expanses of blacktop.

Do you seriously believe that the thousands of smart, dedicated scientists working in the field of climate study aren't able to design a set of experimental controls that would account for heat island effects?

Seriously, do you believe that's even possible in today's world of heavily peer-reviewed science?


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By Manch on 10/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Talk about disillusioned
By Brandon Hill on 10/22/2009 11:03:28 PM , Rating: 2
They've left F1 as well.

FAIL all around :(


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By Broadwing on 10/22/2009 11:48:31 PM , Rating: 2
...though once free of Honda, that team's done rather nicely for themselves indeed. :)


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By Amiga500 on 10/23/2009 6:48:38 AM , Rating: 2
Well... to be honest, they wrote off 2008, and devoted all their time to 2009's car. They had 3 separate development programs in parallel through most of 2008, picked the best and carried it forward and reaped the benefits at the start of this season.

It was an idiotic decision from the Honda board to up sticks and leave at that point in time, but the Brawn wins are mostly due to the cash spent in 2008 when the team were still Honda.


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By johnsonx on 10/25/2009 7:20:48 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, I seriously do. It's because it's about politics, power and money, not science.


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2009 11:06:57 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah this is really sad. Didn't like all of their vehicles meet new Ultra Low Emissions standards anyway ? Like that wasn't "green" enough..


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By KGBird on 10/23/2009 6:36:36 PM , Rating: 3
I've been slowly losing my appreciation of Hondas. They used to make great cars, but followed them up with troubling decisions to kill them. Some examples:

#1 The CRX - Great fun to drive, good mileage too. Killed for no good reason.
#2 The Prelude - Another good sporty car. Sales were poor, so I understand why it died.
#3 The NSX - Fabulous sports car. Everyone waited breathlessly for its successor. Honda teased us with concepts, but never made it.
#4 The S2000 - I WANTED ONE!! Nuff said. - Forget it now.
#5 Formula 1 - They designed a winner AND QUIT! Brawn GP wins the driver and constructors championship with it (Mercedes engine, though).

Now we're stuck with the Accord. It just gets bigger, fatter, and softer with each generation

Honda has gone the way of the Toyota, and they've lost me as a fan.


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By Brandon Hill on 10/23/2009 6:51:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Honda has gone the way of the Toyota, and they've lost me as a fan.


I wouldn't say they've gone the way of Toyota. Toyota at least:

1) Has RWD platforms (Lexus)
2) Has the LFA (V-10 supercar pictured in this article)
3) Has the FT-86 coming next year (sub-$25,000 RWD sports car for the masses)
4) Lexus IS-F (400+ HP M3 fighter)


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By KGBird on 10/23/2009 8:28:51 PM , Rating: 2
You're right. I guess I never got over the death of the Supra and the incredibly disappointing Celica.


RE: Talk about disillusioned
By EasyC on 10/26/2009 12:41:01 PM , Rating: 2
The celica was far from a disappointment. The RSX was comparable in terms of speed, but wasn't in handling/braking (stock wise). The one thing it had over the celica was aftermarket (which subsequently produced the image of celicas sucking).

That said, I own both a Toyota and an Acura. My daily driver is the Acura, and my sports/summer car is the Toyota.


hopin for no more civics
By Manch on 10/22/09, Rating: -1
RE: hopin for no more civics
By chrnochime on 10/22/2009 10:42:04 PM , Rating: 4
The cars are not at fault. The drivers are.


RE: hopin for no more civics
By Manch on 10/22/2009 11:04:06 PM , Rating: 1
They spend all their money on neon lights, stick on fender vents, or those whistlers that make there cars sound like they have a turbo LMFAO! http://www.turbowhistler.net/

Yeah you're right they need to work on the driver mod instead


RE: hopin for no more civics
By dajeepster on 10/22/2009 11:55:43 PM , Rating: 2
I'm gonna stick that in my jeep :D


RE: hopin for no more civics
By Manch on 10/23/2009 12:23:54 AM , Rating: 2
PLEASE! Record that! Put it on YouTube!! Maybe I should put a couple on Chevy pickup. a 454 with "turbo's" would sound awesome!


RE: hopin for no more civics
By tastyratz on 10/23/2009 8:14:23 AM , Rating: 2
certainly would, and certainly does... but the turbo sounds better without quotations by manly men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exARfVAVyEs
that would certainly be something to pilot


RE: hopin for no more civics
By xti on 10/23/2009 11:04:14 AM , Rating: 2
I hate how people with no taste ruined those cars, the 99-00 generation Civic SI (EBP!!) was a GREAT car, one of the funnest cars I ever owned.


Honda is done
By Mithan on 10/22/09, Rating: -1
RE: Honda is done
By werfu on 10/23/09, Rating: 0
"We are going to continue to work with them to make sure they understand the reality of the Internet.  A lot of these people don't have Ph.Ds, and they don't have a degree in computer science." -- RIM co-CEO Michael Lazaridis






Most Popular ArticlesFree Windows 10 offer ends July 29th, 2016: 10 Reasons to Upgrade Immediately
July 22, 2016, 9:19 PM
Top 5 Smart Watches
July 21, 2016, 11:48 PM







botimage
Copyright 2016 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki