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Honda Small Hybrid Sports Concept
Honda's new hybrid sports car concept may foreshadow a second generation Insight

Toyota unveiled its first hybrid sports car concept, the Volta, in 2004 and just recently showcased its FT-HS Hybrid Sports Concept at the Detroit Auto Show. However, Toyota isn't the only company looking to bring hybrid technology to small sports cars.

Archrival Honda wants back into the game and will unveil its Small Hybrid Sports Concept at the Geneva Auto Show. Not much is known about the hybrid other than the fact that it was designed by Honda R&D Europe in Offenbach, Germany. And from the image on the right, the new car is miles ahead of the tadpole-esque Honda Insight.

AUTOCAR.co.uk believes that the Concept will foreshadow the production version of the second generation Insight, which is to be introduced in 2008. The car is expected to be similar in size to the current generation Civic and will be priced under the Toyota Prius.

The first generation Honda Insight was the first gasoline-electric hybrid automobile to be sold in the United States. The tiny 2-seater weighed just 1,850 pounds, was powered by a 73HP 3-cylinder engine and achieved EPA mileage ratings of 60/66 MPG city/highway.

Also on tap for the Geneva Auto Show is a fully functioning FCX Concept. The concept will feature Honda's FC Stack which DailyTech profiled in September. Honda estimates that the FCX Concept will offer a driving range of 354 miles and a top speed of 100 MPH.

Toyota and Honda aren't the only companies looking to bring hybrid and fuel cell technologies to the masses. GM is developing a "plug-in" gasoline-electric hybrid for production in 2009 while Ford is working on a flexible "HySeries Drive" platform to provide gasoline, diesel and fuel cell hybrid electric powertrain options.

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Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By krotchy on 2/5/2007 9:58:52 AM , Rating: 2
Its called the Lexus GS 450h, and its fast as heck. However it gets a whopping 23mpg, lol. Although for the performance it should be getting like 12 mpg.

Honestly, I would like to see hybrid engines being applied to more areas than just small cars which were already energy efficient. Id rather see a hybrid hummer getting 25+ mpg, than a hybrid civic getting 50+, because the hummers and other wasters are the problem, not the little economy cars.

That being said this is a good step, Im just being cynical.




RE: Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By yacoub on 2/5/2007 10:07:48 AM , Rating: 2
Key word in your post: SEDAN.

They're talking about a sports car, not a sporty sedan.


RE: Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By ksherman on 2/5/2007 10:57:35 AM , Rating: 2
Isnt that lexus an SUV too?


RE: Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By Jedi2155 on 2/5/2007 12:17:55 PM , Rating: 2
That's the GS400h


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/5/2007 12:25:29 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong ;)

GS450h = sedan hybrid based on the GS350
RX400h = SUV hybrid based on the RX330


RE: Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By lucyfek on 2/5/07, Rating: -1
By Spivonious on 2/5/2007 10:41:17 AM , Rating: 2
I think you missed the sarcasm. And the "lol."


By Kuroyama on 2/5/2007 10:54:48 AM , Rating: 2
What part of "lol" and "cynical" don't you understand? "Whopping" was meant to be sarcastic.

Re hybrid hummer, if people bought a hybrid Hummer instead of a regular one then it would save a lot more gas than people like me buying a Prius instead of a Camry. However, if they buy the hybrid Hummer instead of a Ford Escape then obviously it's a rather pointless exercise. Environmentalism is great, but until you give people a financial incentive to be efficient -- such as saving $$ on gas or getting more power on less gas money -- then most people won't be bothered to pay attention.


RE: Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By Xenoterranos on 2/5/2007 11:48:00 AM , Rating: 2
I couldn't agree more. I drive a pick-up truck that wouldn't even notice the extra couple hundred pounds of batteries. The things I'd do for a hybrid (*true* hybrid) truck, it makes me giddy thinking of the posibilities. If I could get 30 mpg while towing, I think I'd probably die. Hell, 30 mpg city would be a godsend.
(BTW, I drive a v6 dodge ram 1500 (new style), at about ~60 miles a day, mostly city--still sucks down about $10 a day. Roughly 250miles to the tank.)


RE: Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By Spivonious on 2/5/2007 2:47:43 PM , Rating: 2
You're towing things around a city for 60 miles a day? Wow that would get old really fast.


By AxemanFU on 2/5/2007 5:22:52 PM , Rating: 2
It happens.. I drive a long bed truck, and I'm the most popular person around every time a friend or relative needs to move furniture, or move to a new house or apartment. I'd jump at a chance to get 25mpg instead of 17, trust me, but it is useless to me if it can't carry the same loads and tow the same trailer weights. Technology to the rescue...maybe a diesel-electric truck...


RE: Hybrid Sports Sedan Already Exists
By sabby1225 on 2/5/07, Rating: 0
By Xenoid on 2/5/2007 4:54:55 PM , Rating: 2
The GTO has a different thing going for it. First off the LSx engines are beautiful, but the GTO never really took off and they're still on lots. I would own one in a heartbeat though.

To be fair, most $55k cars that run on gasoline can get the same mileage as the hybrid $55k mentioned here. I was getting 18/35+ mpg on my E36 325i. Highway mileage was around 35 to 45 mpg so I'm not sure what it really was. City 18mpg but that's what happens when you floor it everywhere and have a 14 year old engine. Old tech does that.


.
By semo on 2/5/2007 10:40:42 AM , Rating: 2
so what's the definition of a sports car these days?

when i hear sports car i think race track (or is that for race cars?). whatever the case is, once you step on it you start losing the benefits from the electric motor pretty fast. as fast, in fact, as the batteries lose charge.

btw, i'm all for plug in (mostly diesel) hybrids. just so unfortunate batteries have to be made by toxic chemicals.




RE: .
By PandaBear on 2/5/2007 12:29:45 PM , Rating: 2
Rear wheel drive, top 10% in handling, top 10% in stopping power, comes from the factory with <45 profile summer tires with Z or above rating, manual transmission (or dual clutch auto, DSG), and BTW, 2 doors only.


RE: .
By walk2k on 2/5/2007 12:41:23 PM , Rating: 2
Stop talking about Hummers. That is a niche vehicle for the very wealthy and there are not that many of them on the road. If you want to talk about gas guzzling global warming-mobiles, talk about the millions of Ford and GM pickup trucks and "SUV"s on the road today. Start getting hybrid/FC engines in those (or just stop driving them, what the fuck is wrong with you people anyway? Small dick syndrome?) and then you're starting to make a difference.

But let's be honest, Americans don't care about fuel economy, stop pretending like we do.


RE: .
By Meklaar on 2/5/2007 1:20:20 PM , Rating: 2
Well, some people like to drive pick-up trucks because they sure can carry a lot more than your average sedan. Ever try to fit a queen size bed in a sedan? I think not! Some people buy SUVs because they can hold a lot of people, usually more than a sedan, and are more attractive than your typical minivan.

Now what I don't understand are the two-door 5-person mini-SUV. That's just ridiculous.


RE: .
By Spivonious on 2/5/2007 2:49:10 PM , Rating: 2
Ever get the free delivery and set up of a queen size bed?

And your average sedan fits 5 people comfortably. You average SUV fits 4 people comfortably.


RE: .
By walk2k on 2/5/2007 3:43:22 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I hear this a lot. "But I need to haul stuff rarely sometimes!" Or "but, we go skiing once or twice a year!"

Of course if you need a truck for work that's one thing. But hey here's an idea, if you have an application where you need a truck once, twice a year maybe, RENT ONE and drive a normal sized car the other 360+ days.

The other one I get is, "but I have kids"! How many freakin kids do you have anyway? Stop having so many kids! Anyway, when I was a kid we did just fine with our station wagons (of course they had V8s and got pretty lousy mileage, but they could do a lot better nowadays, what ever happened to the station wagon anyway??). I mean, are your kids 10 feet tall and weigh 800 pounds each that you need a Yukon Expedition XXXLT+ with the 7.9 liter V12?


Face it, Americans just have a fascination with huge trucks and SUVs and don't give a crap about other people on the planet. After all we can just have another war if we need more oil.


RE: .
By Jkm3141 on 2/5/2007 4:11:53 PM , Rating: 2
Mabye you should just accept the fact that there are situations for having trucks in America. Try living somewhere that avg.'s 100+ inches of snow a year, and then tell me you will be alright with just a small station wagon? My family owns a Chevy Silverado 1500 V6, and a Ford Escort station wagon. We drive the station wagon in the summers, and the Truck in the winters when you actually need it. Granted we drive the truck when we need to move stuff (which is quite often between the family hobbies of a full sailboat and working on cars). Take your arrogant ideas someplace where where they might be true.


RE: .
By semo on 2/5/2007 4:46:36 PM , Rating: 2
there are situations where you need a truck (wherever you are on the planet) but why are there so many suvs in this picture:
http://calvert.house.gov/SupportingFiles/Images/tr...
i think there are so many trucks in america because gas is so affordable. in some cases i'm sure a vehicle like the audi allroad (adjustable ride height, 4x4) would just be fine.

btw, almost everyone here is posting in the wrong thread


RE: .
By hubajube on 2/6/2007 12:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Of course if you need a truck for work that's one thing.
C'mon son. There is a big world out there where there are other people (yes people other than you) that actually do things that YOU may not ever do (yes I know this is a shock). These "other people" may have differing needs. I know this is hard but I'll hold your hand through this. We have horses. Horses need to eat (just like people). Horses eat a LOT. We don't grow horse food (not enough room plus we have jobs) sooooooooooo we take our truck and go buy horse food and take it home to feed the horses. Do you know how much a single bail of hay weighs? How about 75-100 lbs. We get four at a shot. That's 400 hundred pounds. We do this every two weeks. We also get hay for one of our neighbors when they don't have time to get their own. If we get theirs then that's about 800-1000lbs of hay. How many cars can carry that much weight? How many cars even have that much room in them to put the hay in? Ever heard of GVWR? That's the max weight you can have in a vehicle and it's dangerous to exceed that number. On a V6 Camry it's about 4500 lbs and the car itself weighs 3500 lbs. So you have 1000 lbs for passengers and luggage. Since we Americans are fat fucks, we'll say about 450 lbs for two passengers. That leaves 550 lbs for everything else. That pretty much leaves out hauling hay. Any more ignorant statements you'd care to make today?


Hybrid Cars...
By drebo on 2/5/2007 10:51:03 AM , Rating: 2
I still don't understand what the point of Hybrid cars is. Wow, 354 miles to the tank at a cost tens of thousands of dollars above what it should be, no doubt. Just like the Prius.

Why on earth would you pay so much for such an ugly car, when you can get a Yaris, which is equally as ugly, and costs about half as much, yet gets about the same gas mileage? We have two new Yarises at work for our onsite techs and they go on average 350 miles on three-quarters of an eight gallon tank. That's nearly 60 miles to the gallon.

I guess I just don't see the point in buying a car that it's going to take me 10 years of near-constant driving to make up the difference...particularly with gas prices on the decline. Just last week, I took a road trip with my girlfriend and we drove about 700 miles on 16 gallons of gas in her 2000 Toyota Echo. That's 43 mpg on a seven-year-old car that she paid about $10K for.

People who want to save money are not going to buy a $30K automobile just so they can save $10 per week on gas, if that. They're going to buy a Yaris, or some other small car, for half that and still save $10 per week on gas.

The efficiency is already there. The alternate fuel methods are already there. Brazil has been using three different fuels for cars since the 70s! Ethanol, alchohol, and gasoline. When we run out of gas (don't see that happening in ours or our children's lifetimes) the alternate, renewable methods already exist, and we already have the efficiency. It just makes no sense.




RE: Hybrid Cars...
By Kuroyama on 2/5/2007 11:12:25 AM , Rating: 2
People will buy a hybrid sports car for the extra acceleration of the electric engine, and likely not for fuel economy. They'll buy a Prius because they're an environmentalist. They'll buy a hybrid Hummer to save money on their humongous gas bill (although maybe they won't care about that if they can afford a Hummer). A Yaris or Echo are great if you only need a tiny car, and you are certainly right that there was little reason to buy the first generation Prius when it was basically just an Echo anyways.

Each car has its own niche, and you're right that we shouldn't automatically think that "hybrid"="good for environment", but for the same reason you shouldn't think that hybrids exist only for environmental reasons either.


RE: Hybrid Cars...
By RogueSpear on 2/5/2007 11:13:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wow, 354 miles to the tank at a cost tens of thousands of dollars above what it should be, no doubt.

I believe the "354 miles to the tank" in the article was regarding a fuel cell concept vehicle, not a gas-electric hybrid. I get over 550 miles to the tank in my Prius.


RE: Hybrid Cars...
By rtrski on 2/5/2007 11:50:57 AM , Rating: 2
IMO, the point is getting the same mileage as a totally stripped down, plastic minimalist interior toy vehicle but in a moderately sized (interior at least), well appointed vehicle with some creature comforts and more pleasant road handling. And your "tens of thousands" difference, 10 years of driving, etc. etc. rehashed argument has been disputed time and again, as has the whole 'replace billions of dollars in batteries within 2-3 years!' battle cry. Call it $5-6k up front, and you might be in the ballpark. Someone else has already corrected you on the 350-mile comment (I too get well over 500 miles per tank).

Yes, gas prices are on the decline...the last few months. You really want to take a bet they'll stay there the next 5 years or more? I don't. And I kinda doubt your 60 mpg estimate for the Yaris. EPA shows 40 hwy - we know they're usually conservative, but you're claiming more than 50% off? Yeah, right...even knowing the 'new' estimates are about 10% lower than the old ones, they're not going to be that far off.

At worst I expect to break even on my Prius with gas savings vs. the upfront cost in 5 years, and that's excluding the big tax break I got for buying it. I've already recouped about $1100 in just a hair over a year, comparing to a 30mpg combined average vehicle (average combined mileage is still running at 21 for domestic cars - has been for around a decade). Maintenance has actually cost me less than my Jetta did in the same timeframe, too.

As for ugly, that's clearly a matter of opinion. I agree it's a bit weird looking, but I guess its weird in my sort of way 'cause I like it ;).

Bottom line, hybrids aren't any sort of magic bullet cure for petroleum use or emissions, any more than corn ethanol is. There ain't no free lunch, anywhere. But they're neither stupid nor negative-sum options. Just another choice.


RE: Hybrid Cars...
By beemercer on 2/5/2007 3:23:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Brazil has been using three different fuels for cars since the 70s! Ethanol, alchohol, and gasoline.


I completely agree that it is unacceptable that we do not have more cars running on ethanol, but ethanol and alcohol are the same thing, I don't know if you meant diesel to be the third.


RE: Hybrid Cars...
By drebo on 2/5/2007 4:32:11 PM , Rating: 2
No, it's a different kind of alcohol.

Can't remember the name.


RE: Hybrid Cars...
By beemercer on 2/5/2007 6:04:06 PM , Rating: 2
The only other alcohol besides ethanol that is commonly used in internal combustion engines is methanol, which is more of a race fuel (Indy car specifically).


RE: Hybrid Cars...
By hubajube on 2/6/2007 12:36:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
People who want to save money are not going to buy a $30K automobile just so they can save $10 per week on gas, if that. They're going to buy a Yaris, or some other small car, for half that and still save $10 per week on gas.
My wife and I REALLY wanted to try and justify buying a more fuel efficient car for her so she wouldn't have to drive her truck everyday but it really IS cheaper for her to pay the money for gas instead of buying a new car. The savings just isn't there. We even thought of buying a used VW Bug because even those get 30mpg but the thought of my wife driving around the desert in the summertime with no A/C didn't sit well with me. I've done that before and it sucks big time. Plus we'd have to pay for smog every two years (yay California!).


Hybrid Muscle
By Lazarus Dark on 2/5/2007 3:41:07 PM , Rating: 2
There are those of us that simply wont get some upity hybrid boring car, and others that wont buy anything foriegn (yes, we still exist).

There is a large market thus far ignored by the hybrid engineers: muscle cars . I would love a dodge charger hemi v8 with electric motor to add not only better mileage, but also a performance boost over the v8 alone. I dont want some newly engineered 4-banger with electric motor; just take an existing high performance engine and add the electric motor. Maybe a hybrid camaro or mustang. Heck, I'd love to see a drop-in hybrid crate engine that I could put in an old '69 muscle car chassis. That would be awesome!




RE: Hybrid Muscle
By RogueSpear on 2/6/2007 10:28:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
and others that wont buy anything foriegn (yes, we still exist).

So would you buy a Ford made in Canada? Or a GM made in Mexico? Do you consider a Toyota Camry Hybrid to be a domestic since every single one of them is made here? This argument really doesn't seem to hold water like it once did.


RE: Hybrid Muscle
By hubajube on 2/6/2007 12:56:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So would you buy a Ford made in Canada? Or a GM made in Mexico? Do you consider a Toyota Camry Hybrid to be a domestic since every single one of them is made here? This argument really doesn't seem to hold water like it once did.
They've found an excuse to negate that argument now. They will only buy American nameplate cars and that's considered American to them. Nevermind logic and what's actual reality. Been there on this argument many times and lost all of them.


RE: Hybrid Muscle
By Lazarus Dark on 2/28/2007 10:45:10 AM , Rating: 2
I consider canada and mexico to be like the "other" states of america- after all theres as many mexicans and canidians in america as there are in there native "states". As for domestically produced foriegn-branded cars, they still use metric bolts. And we all know metric is for commies.

(I was raised a redneck, but most of this is just joking-don't take it serious.)


hybrids
By AlmostExAMD on 2/6/2007 3:14:33 AM , Rating: 1
Forget cars,You want great fuel economy, Then get yourself a motorbike, See how far $5 will get you compared to a car! :)))
Half the point of hybrids/electrics isn't about the fuel economy, Don't you people GET IT, It's about less pollution, I mean take a look around at how screwed up the planet is lately, We better start doing something NOW, Otherwise tomorrow looks grim indeed for the next generation(YOUR KIDS) people!




RE: hybrids
By Arragonis on 2/6/2007 11:21:40 AM , Rating: 2
Or indeed Diesel.

I have yet to see a Hybrid test, as in real test on a real road, which has returned anything even remotely impressive. Not one. Every time I see a Prius tested here the tester gets an average of around 40, and when they ask Toyota for a comment it all goes quiet.

Yet here (Europe) you can buy a 170hp SEAT Diesel which will go 0-60 in under 8 seconds and on to 140+mph, and return over 45 mpg average. It doesn't even come in the top tax bracket (based on CO2 emissions).

The only advantage for a hybrid in the UK is that you get to drive in the London (and presumably others when they come in) congestion zone for free.


RE: hybrids
By hubajube on 2/6/2007 1:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I mean take a look around at how screwed up the planet is lately, We better start doing something NOW, Otherwise tomorrow looks grim indeed for the next generation(YOUR KIDS) people!
Prove what you just said. Thanks.


Tesla
By Samus on 2/6/2007 4:54:03 AM , Rating: 2
I'd front 100k for a Tesla that is 0 maintenance, no fuels, insane fast, and a Lotus Elise...over anything the Japanese oil burners come up with.

Keep in mind that the Germans and the Brits still make the most efficient, cleanest burning engines in the world. Primary reason there are NO Japanese aircraft manufactures left in business, and NO Japanese company's manufacture aircraft engines.

The SLK500 also outbeat the Prius Hybrid in environmental tests purely because over the life of the vehicle, the emmisions on the SLK500, although more in quantity, produces less hydrocarbons and wasted less fuel. It did get 1/4 the MPG, but it is 5 litre's, too.




RE: Tesla
By HammerZ on 2/6/2007 10:59:02 AM , Rating: 2
In case you are not aware, the Elise is powered by Toyota...one of those "Japanese oil burners" that you were referencing to. Also, Lotus is currently owned by a Malaysian automotive company (I am aware that you only referenced Japanese companies in your comment, but I don't think that you are aware of the Proton ownership).

Can you please link to the study comparing the SL500 engine to the Prius engine? I find it hard to believe. I don't know how the life of the engine would play a role in the environmental tests. Even if the Prius engine would stop working earlier, wouldn't that be better for the environment since it will 1) force the owner to buy a probably more efficient/cleaner car, or 2) not produce any exhaust at all because it is not working? You last paragraph makes no sense at all. How can you produce more in quantity but less in xxx? Do you mean emission w/ respect to engine size, power, etc.?


By therealnickdanger on 2/5/2007 10:39:35 AM , Rating: 2
My Chrysler burns gas and rubber! Yeah, yeah, old joke... I typically get around 15MPG with my lead foot, but I can get above 25MPG on the freeway.




broken link
By walk2k on 2/5/2007 12:44:11 PM , Rating: 2
"Intel is investing heavily (think gazillions of dollars and bazillions of engineering man hours) in resources to create an Intel host controllers spec in order to speed time to market of the USB 3.0 technology." -- Intel blogger Nick Knupffer

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