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A high level of competition to enter Chinese universities once again forces students to cheat

Three Chinese citizens have been arrested for operating a high-tech cheating scam during the national college entrance exam.  Two of the suspects sat in a van located outside a Chinese high school and relayed answers to a student inside taking the exam.    

Three people were holed up inside a van parked outside of the school building where the exams were taking place.  Inside the van, authorities found "two of them staring at a computer screen and talking into a walkie talkie," while the student inside sent and received answers to the questions.  

The three people involved with the scam reportedly charged the student $1,500.

The national college entrance exam allows 10 million students to compete for only 5.7M university openings.  Entrance exams are so competitive that the government considers exam questions state secrets before the exam takes place.

Last year, Chinese officials detailed some of the methods universities implemented to help combat potential cheaters.  Some technologies include video cameras and cell phone and radio blocking technologies.

Police authorities in a different province spent a large amount of resources to fit up to 8,000 halls with metal detectors in an attempt to stop students from cheating.

Some students cheat by using "cheating shoes," shoes that have transmitting and reception ability -- cheating wallets and hats are also rumored to exist.

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Only 5.7 openings?
By JustKidding on 6/12/2007 8:03:24 AM , Rating: 3
Boy, I'd sure hate to be the one who earned the '.7' opening. ;)

Seriously though, how wonderful it is that higher education is so freely available in the US. Too bad some students don't appreciate just how lucky they are compared to many parts of the world.




RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Misty Dingos on 6/12/2007 8:22:34 AM , Rating: 5
Hey wait a second here! Aren't these Chinese students communists? Why would they cheat then? If they cheated then someone who could better use the education might be relegated to a menial job. What is worse the people will be less well served because of the cheater's lack of innate intelligence. This is not how GOOD communists behave.

Scratching, clawing, and cheating your way to the top is more like capitalism. Get to the top at all costs! Burn your competition down. Then roll in the riches you have garnered! GREED IS GOOD! OK so maybe that is a little over the top but doesn’t it strike anyone a odd that communism (a system that claims to bring out the best in people) is just a corrupt and amoral (or worse) as any of the western democracies?


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By chick0n on 6/12/07, Rating: -1
RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Spivonious on 6/12/2007 9:30:57 AM , Rating: 2
Please do us all a favor and read an article on Communism. The post you replied to is not racist in any measure and brings up a good point about how China is "communist," but not really.

Oh, and if garbage couldn't get into college, why are you there?


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By NuroMancer on 6/12/2007 9:37:04 AM , Rating: 2
A) His point is that people in capitalist societies will do whatever to get to the top, even cheat. So your proving his point by saying student in state colleges cheat too...

B) Your a great example of a student who I really wonder how they made it into post secondary. Students like you are the reason that there is a misconception over "kids in china are smarter then college kids here".

You lack grammar skills, spelling skills, and the ability to make a rational argument. I really wonder about the future of our society is with people like you around.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By glenn8 on 6/12/2007 10:44:40 AM , Rating: 2
A) All humans do whatever to get to the top... some are just more bold than others. It's human nature so to speak... nothing to do with how a society is governed.

B) Don't be so full of yourself. You're so quick to criticize yet don't bother to check "your" vs. "you're".


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By xsilver on 6/12/2007 1:09:22 PM , Rating: 4
Its also nice to see that the mentality of "shoot the bloody commies!" is still alive and kicking a full generation after is was (ill)conceived.

china is no longer really a communist country.
communism is only applied in small doses of their society as a form of combating the fact that they have too many people. If you think a G8 riot is bad - imagine 100 million people downing tools and taking to the streets. That would be total anarchy!


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Misty Dingos on 6/12/2007 4:05:11 PM , Rating: 2
If China is no longer 'really' a communist nation then please tell me about the love fest in Tiananmen Square.

Or offer a name of an opposition party in China.

Or when they let out the political prisoners.

Or when they stopped blocking internet access.

Or when they let reporters actually report what they see without government approval.

Or the occupation of Tibet.

Or the dogmatic insistence that the people of Taiwan are actual just some misguided crazy people that need to be brought back into the loving hands of mainland China.

And if 100 million people stood up and demanded freedom from the oppressive government that they live under, I would not call that a riot I would call it a revolution and I would do all I could to support them to end the tyranny that communism is.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By glenn8 on 6/12/2007 4:55:14 PM , Rating: 2
Most of, if not all, your points aren't really what makes China communist... The only true reason that they are Communist is the fact that they are ruled by the Communist Party... but even within the party there are subdivisions.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Darkskypoet on 6/12/2007 8:08:20 PM , Rating: 3
On face value, what you list certainly points to a form of Authoritarian society, however, one can make many points that are quite similar to those raised (perhaps in many cases not quite as drastic) about the United States.

Offer a third party that is actually allowed on a Nationally televised debate for president. (give other parties / views legitimacy)

When will the U.S Close Gitmo? Stop running torture cells on foreign shores, end the transfer of 'political' detainees to a third country for 'questioning'?

Do I have to list many of the massively overreaching U.S federal laws regarding access to the internet?

Umm... right reporting anti-government stories... Gee thats been 'unpatriotic' for some time now. Perhaps the winds are changing now that the Administration is.

Occupation of Iraq, 50 year plus trade blockade of Cuba, ecosystem destruction of columbia, et al. Regime change in about 20 plus foreign nations, supplying chemical weapons to Iraq, funding and training Osama Bin Laden, etc etc etc.

Dogmatic insistence that any nation not supporting illegal wars, neo-colonialist practices, and fighting the rape of TNC's are misguided poor souls that must be 'liberated', by having their infrastructure blown to bits, government (democratic or not) overthrown, etc.

And if 50 million plus working class citizens had no proper access to affordable medical care, and continually had to bankrupt themselves to achieve it... I'd damn well hope said Capitalist country would step up and show its moral superiority. Better believe Chinese get it, so did soviets, etc.

Bottom Line... As bad as you believe others are, or have it... Wake up and see you're own tyrannical environment. Fix your own country before you stand up to bomb others.

Slave to the all hyped out merchandise and money, or slave to the propagandized cause and party. Either way you slice it both are slaves. Some just get prettier collars.

Oh and one phrase, in case you can't fathom the others: Drug War. Nuff said.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By xsilver on 6/13/2007 4:38:23 AM , Rating: 2
thankyou - I wouldnt have been bothered to type all that out.

additionally - the OP needs to understand that while some concessions are made to chinese people's freedoms - what would the chinese people do with these freedoms? - the answer - nothing much.

They already have economic freedom - thats all chinese people really care about.
Its not a perfect system - but neither is america and as I said - the mentality of "shoot the bloody commies" doesnt really help at all.

misty are you chinese or actually know of chinese people? because if you spoke to some, you would actually be surprised that most dont feel the need for another revolution at all - in fact they despise it.
and who are we to say that their lives suck and they should do what we do.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Misty Dingos on 6/13/2007 9:39:23 AM , Rating: 2
I'll bite. Let's do that comparison.

Third parties in the US government. There are currently two independents in the US Senate. And here is some websites to visit. No I would not like to spend much time at any of these guy's meetings. Talk about third party whining! When will these guys get some air time with the two dominant US parties? When they get enough people to back them to force some recognition. The Reform Party did that back in the late 80s and early 90s. They have since torn at themselves more than anyone else. In the 1980 election Ralph Nader ran and it is likely that he handed the election to George Bush by cutting liberal democrats away from Al Gore. So multiple parties are active in US politics. And becoming more active.

The Green Party http://www.gp.org/
The Communist Party http://www.cpusa.org/
The Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/
The United States Independent America Party http://www.usiap.org
The America First Party http://www.americafirstparty.org
The New Party http://www.newparty.org
The Reform Party http://www.americanreform.org
The Freedom Socalist http://www.socialism.com
The Pirate Party Of The US (No really it is a real political party) http://www.pirate-party.us

When will the US close Gitmo? When we have a resolution to the status of everyone being held there. It will be a slow and cumbersome legal process that will take more years. Is it right to keep people against their will indefinitely? Yes. Is it defensible to the US populace that you let go known terrorists because you don't have a legal frame work to hold them? No. The first job of the US government is the protection of the people from aggression by outside agencies or countries. So until we produce a framework of legal prosecution and protection of given legal rights to enemy combatants, Gitmo will stay open. Extraordinary Rendition is not a defensible program if it is being used to allow torture of ECs. It is justifiable (IMO) if it is used to capture high value terrorists and bring them to Gitmo or what ever takes its place.

I am not reall aware of any draconian laws regarding the internet in the USA. Unless you mean you don't get to play poker on line for money anymore.

Anti government stories are the bread and butter of three of the four major TV networks. Major news stories are produced every day in news papers that condemn US actions and activities. Freedom of the press is a constitutionally defended right and is not threatened in any way.

The US still has forces in Kosovo, bases in Europe, Japan, Korea, and a myriad of other countries. If the US were to withdraw its military forces to bases in the US the UN would explode. Not only would the US be in violation of treaties with those other countries the very act of doing so would be seen as extremely provocative. The legitimate government of Iraq supports the US forces in its country. Why? Because if we left the place would devolve into anarchy. We will leave Iraq when they are stable enough to do so.

I am not sure which governments we are threaten to over throw next. But the last one was not legitimately democratic, was run by a lunatic that let his sick and twisted children rape and murder the citizens of the country at will.

Lets see health care. Needs improvement. Is an ongoing debate and is getting the attention of all the major political parties. Will everyone like the outcome? Will everyone be provided for? I don't know. But our democratic process is addressing it.

So the bottom line is that the USA is in a continual state of 'repair'. Always will be. Never going to be perfect.

Personally I am no mans or governments slave. You can wear whatever collar you want. I don't wear a tin foil hat and I am familiar with history of my country. And I recognize that utopia will never exist.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Darkskypoet on 6/13/2007 12:48:43 PM , Rating: 2
Ok :) I love discussion that doesn't include Kill the "insert current bastardized group here".

First off:

Wasn't contesting the existence of other parties. However, Nader could fill stadiums in ever city he's gone to to speak, and yet in your country, will never get to stand on a stage with the two main party candidates in a nationally televised debate. This is a good tactic for removing legitimacy from the bid of said leading third party contender. I can go around to every major center in the United states and Fill each cities largest venue to the rafters, and still never reach the same amount of people that I could in one night on a nationally televised Presidential Debate. If person is on the ballot in all states, then person should be in the Presidential debate. The state of your media rich society is one of if he/she isn't on the big television debates, they obviously aren't a contender. That is a problem. Secondly, name a single middle class senator currently holding office? Wait... they are all pretty effing rich aren't they? What about the House? Any middle classers there?

Right resolution to a made up status that conveniently violates every treaty signed on the proper treatment of prisoners. But wait, they aren't POW's, cause they use asymmetrical warfare tactics. I am sorry, but if a country many hundred times stronger then yours (hard to fathom isn't it,) invades your country; are you seriously telling me you wouldn't be on the back of a buddies pickup truck fighting with every underhanded scheme, plot, etc possible to hurt them? Asymmetrical warfare is a result of a massively superior force attacking the homes of a vastly inferior force. Besides the U.S has tons of experience running Contra missions in foreign nations. Including Panama, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc. Why does this surprise them? Are Americans now only 2 generations removed from real fear an insecurity, so stupid as to think others may not welcome their invading armies with open arms? The media does those seeking good information a disservice by bastardizing those who fight with sticks and stones against Abrams, B52's, and, M-16's. Furthermore, if a bully repeatedly steals your lunch money, at what point to you fight dirty and kick him in the balls? Human beings survive... it is what we are good at, survival means fighting with anything at your disposal, not agreeing to play by the rules of the superior.

The issue however, isn't so much solely that your nation approves of torture and other extraordinary measures on just enemy combatants. The issues at hand include the degradation of domestic application of your constitution in cases where "security" is at risk. This nebulous concept allows for the removal of almost any constitutionally protected right in the name of security, and the 'homeland'. (hmm fatherland, motherland... sounding familiar yet?)

What essentially you are admitting to here, is that these tactics, however vociferously they have been denounced in the past by our freedom loving western democracies: work. As such... perhaps we shouldn't give other Authoritarian nations such a hard time for employing them.

One cannot have it both ways. Either human and civil rights are required for a properly functioning democracy, or they are not. Bar none. If not, then we must apologize to the various leaders we have called to task for supporting such rights destroying practices in the name of security, and instead thank them for their pioneering research in these fields, as well as offering up covert venues for us to commit these acts out of the view of the general public.

Long story short: Rights good, or rights bad? You pick. to allow their removal and destruction at will by secret juries and courts is not just a slippery slope, it is the machinations of a scared, and threatened public that forgets the truth that, "if one gives up freedom for security, they will get neither, and deserve neither".

COPA... I am not one to support kiddie porn, or anything of that nature whatsoever, however COPA was a bad law, and thankfully your supreme court struck it down, repeatedly... However, states have passed similar laws. Good intentions are honourable, however can lead to very, very bad outcomes in terms of written legislation.

"On March 22, 2007, U.S. District Judge Lowell A. Reed, Jr. once again struck down the Child Online Protection Act,[7] finding the law facially violates the First and Fifth Amendments of the United States Constitution. Reed issued an order permanently enjoining the government from enforcing COPA, commenting that "perhaps we do the minors of this country harm if First Amendment protections, which they will with age inherit fully, are chipped away in the name of their protection."" (wiki - search COPA)

Anti-government stories the bread and butter? Ok... Sure.. Now? much more prevalent.. previously? Not so much. I mean, it wasn't a story contesting the "truthiness" of the African Uranium proof that got a CIA Agent outed by the current administration. No, not at all. And It wasn't too long ago that spin agents, and major media outlets seemed to forget that the definition of a patriot isn't allegiance to a government, but to a nation. But wait, you're at war... so thats ok. Yes, your media is technically free. However, in practice the spin is far too one sided. In addition, with the convergence of ownership in your current media realm, very few opinions are actually given much credence, and it will only get worse. Watch any American News broadcast, and then watch other sources, Canadian, European, etc. The difference is fairly plain to see. Even CNN broadcasts for domestic consumption versus those for foreign markets are remarkably different.

The insulation, evident in your mass media, from the rest of the world and her opinions is remarkably formidable considering the resources available to the media conglomerates in your country. However, perpetuating a popular line works about as well as paying many millions to lobby said administration; Especially when looking for FTC concessions, and the removal of certain laws that used to protect against media conglomerates from owning every source of media for a given area, township, or city.

The Legitimate government in Iraq has voted overwhelmingly for a timetable of exit by American Forces and civilian security contractors from Iraq, and has never rec'd such. They have voted on this issue numerous times. Further, the government of Iraq has its hands tied as there has been no real improvement to infrastructure destroyed by U.S and coalition partners(aside from oil infrastructure) during the initial phases of the invasion. A government as fragile as the multi-ethnic coalition running Iraq, can ill afford to lose the promise of American dollars to rebuild power / water / sewage / roads / etc. that had been destroyed by same. This places said 'legitimate' government at a quandary considering the means Saddam used to repair the same sorts of infrastructure damage in a much shorter period of time have been disbanded by the American forces, and interim regimes.

In regards to the gross removal of troops from around the world; true treaties prevent the removal of many of them. My point however was not that all American force application is bad, unjust, etc. That would be a fool hardy statement. My point was that America has launched many a covert, and illegal campaign in her history to exert power, influence, and, to remove gov'ts (both dictator and democratically elected) that it does not see eye to eye with.

Standard procedure for such is to place (or support) a friendly government into (within) such nations, and utilize the despot to gain positive economic / militaristic / strategic / etc benefit from alliance. Since when does a proper western democracy support a nation that fell in a military coup? Bush supports Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf, please remember he staged a coup d'etat in Pakistan and has since enjoyed massive American overt and covert military aid because of his pro-American stance. If said general refused to support American aims in Afghanistan do you think he would receive such aid? or even recognition? Think again. American has always enjoyed the company of strange bed fellows. Even those that stone women to death, and deny basic human rights to the populace. But wait, its ok... we are at war!

I don't even think I have to mention the support the Americans gave to Saddam Hussein to fight Iran for them, nor the covert support rec'd by same for his ascendancy in the Ba'ath Party back in the 60's. Learn your history.

The Last one, and I am sure the next one will be too. Once the U.S finds they no longer support their strategic regional or global aims. Many of these nations with toppled governments were partially supported / created in the name of whatever ism was popular to fight at the time of the despots rise to power.

As we were comparing to China; China has interests in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and like 2 other places. Thats it, China has only ever used its UN veto power to protect the holdings it views as their own. Whether right or wrong, do you forget the land conquered by the United States to make up the current land mass it claims rights to?(Manifest Destiny) Hawaii came aboard willingly I'll bet... wait, and the Spanish really meant to hand over territory it lost to the Americans too. Oh yeah, and The Philipines, awesome beach front property that was just handed over to them... wait, not really... How many hundreds of thousands of Filipinos died in that war... Yes big bad china wants Taiwan, So far they haven't annexed it by force, too bad many of the Nations that the Americans Annexed didn't have such a strong sabre rattling protector, as Taiwan does now.

Health care has been at such a stage for years. No action then, no action now. Health Care's best hope was Howard Dean. Before Dean was character assassinated by the infamous "screaming clips" aired by the mass media. That man fundamentally changed the art of Presidential Fundraising in your nation forever, challenged Bush from the outset, and engineered one of the only (if not the only) state example of universal health insurance. However, no. Sadly Gore ran, and your supreme court decided that election... How.. free, and fair. What other vaunted western democracy would dare let a court decide not to count ballots in a god damn election? Even the elections for the many layers of people's councils in china (albeit single party), have a better standard then that. Single party being somewhat misleading, as we all know of the many factions that exist within parties running in even so flexible as a two party system.

The bottom line is that the U.S has passed its zenith, and is now backsliding like most empires that have come before it; falling in on itself from the weight of its own corruption, apathy, and hubris. If Iraq was as important as you say... If it was such a necessary war, John Stewart had it right when he asked "Why don't we just World War Two the Damn thing?" The United States can't hold Iraq, that in itself is a stunning condemnation of the most powerful nation in the world.

You sir, do you work? Shop for the latest toys and gadgets? Love your money as much as the next consumerist junkie? Will you engage in the media backed whirlwind event called keeping up with the Jones'? Do you drool at the thought of the latest and greatest consumer gadgets, items, etc? Do you need them? Want them enough to work overtime for them?

As I said, some have collars chained to a government vision of motherland, community over individual, etc. Other have prettier collars tied to consumption. Yours may glow, and run windows (or OSX), burn huge amounts of fossil fuels, or dang it just sparkle ever so brightly... But a collar is a collar. And chances are you don't even realize it is there.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By vxmqzz on 6/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By FITCamaro on 6/12/2007 1:16:14 PM , Rating: 2
I worked just as hard as they do to get into college when I was there. As a white kid who's parents earned "too much money" I was only eligible for student loans from the government.

I did my homework, earned a 3.8 GPA at a private high school(that still had the 94-100 is a A policy when public schools had already switched to 90-100), did more than enough community service through the Boy Scouts, and took the SAT and got the required score for my state funded 100% scholarship.

And I went to a college with about a 50% international student ratio. And while not Chinese, a good portion of the Indian and Arab students would cheat to make it through school. My boss at the computer lab had an Arab student offer her $10,000 to write his thesis for him.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Vanilla Thunder on 6/12/2007 5:31:31 PM , Rating: 1
Your statements are always so racially biased that they're impossible to read with an open mind. Creating "stories" to validate your hate-mongering only makes it worse.

Vanilla


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By glenn8 on 6/12/2007 10:40:46 AM , Rating: 1
Too bad the students aren't "communists"... Your argument would only be valid if the government themselves promoted cheating.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By povomi1 on 6/12/2007 12:34:06 PM , Rating: 4
Western democracies aren't worse than any other current form of government. List me one thats better? Socialism? Communism? Rampant all out anything is bad. One can't be restricted by ideologies, such as Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, Conservatism, Liberalism... following the logic? Its when you borrow a bit from everything and use moderation that a sustainable equilibrium of adequate social-community living can prosper.

Hating on democracy and the west is pointless and ignorant at the very least. Western democracy is currently the most socially friendly type of government-administration. Compare that to current Russian, China, Arab countries, or Africa and I think my point is self-evident in its validity. Europe's socialist policies have greatly hurt their economies while giving more people opportunity, while loweirng the general-overall quality of living.

It's always a trade-off.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Darkskypoet on 6/12/2007 8:24:15 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I beg to differ. While some parts of the various European welfare states do require trimming, the standard of living overall is much better then that in the United States. However, If you're wealthy in the U.S you stand to have a much higher standard of living and access to the best of the best, then almost anywhere else in the world.

If you are poor, hispanic, black, etc. Not true, not even close. And as mentioned above, even those in the middle class tend to get screwed by the sheer level of privatization evident in certain necessary services.

Consider that having a baby can cost upwards of $20,000 in medical bills if you just so happen not to have insurance. Also, any sort of chronic illness will pretty much bankrupt you within a few years, when you get dropped from the insurance you had managed to obtain.

Artificial Supremacy: Arguably,the most powerful argument against Continued American Supremacy today is the case of New Orleans. The so called most powerful nation in the world still hasn't rebuilt New Orleans, had completely mishandled an evacuation of same, and is no where near done fixing the devastation of the Gulf Coast.

Again, look in the mirror before you cast stones at others. Examine incarceration rates of minorities, mean incomes, life expectancy, child mortality rates, etc. The upper crust in the U.S has it good, very good, and that screws the heck out of the stats for the rest.

Western Democracy is spoiled, fat, and utterly ignorant of what it took to build. If this sort of apathetic indulgence isn't reversed, those working harder, more committed, and possibly more hungry for what you have will take it from you, from all of us. My western democracy, well not as horribly corrupt, yet, as our neighbors to the south, is just as apathetic, and just as forgetful.

As well, since we are discussing falling standards of living, the current debt load in the United States is utterly insane, what do you think will happen to the standard of living of your children, and their children when it comes time to start paying it back?


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Scrogneugneu on 6/12/2007 11:37:01 PM , Rating: 2
Paying back? I don't think you got the concept...

A country cannot declare bankruptcy. They got huge debts? Who cares. Who's gonna come to them and ask the money? You do realize that just their interest payments are about 10% of their annual budget?

They won't spend that much money on their debts. They need to run their military - and it costs a lot. They need to borrow again to do that. They're borrowing each and every day to function. And each and every day, the interests are gaining ground. That's why the US currency is falling down.

As much as people might hate it, they're on the verge of another economic crash - the 1929 kind. As soon as someone starts to openly get rid of everything related to the US financially speaking, it will trigger a snowball leading to a crash. The only thing sustaining the economy right now is the belief that it's still strong. As soon as people start to think it's not strong anymore, it won't be. And the debts won't ever get paid.

It's a very sad thing, since the last time it happened, we all know what it took to get them out of depression. I do not want to live that in any way.


By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 6/13/2007 7:19:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Western democracies aren't worse than any other current form of government. List me one thats better? Socialism? Communism?


"Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." -- Sir Winston Churchill

Then again,

"The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter." -- Sir Winston Churchill


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By defter on 6/12/2007 8:24:36 AM , Rating: 4
If that's 5.7M openings then it's not so bad, it's only about 1.75 students per opening in that case.

quote:
how wonderful it is that higher education is so freely available in the US


I recall that quality higher education is not freely available in the US.

Keep in mind that while the entrance exams are very hard in countries like China, fees for students are much lower than in the US.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By alifbaa on 6/12/07, Rating: 0
RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By TSS on 6/12/2007 8:57:00 AM , Rating: 2
fine, then move to america if you can live wityh the oppresive goverment, the rapidly declining climate, a buisness enviroment that values money above your life, and where you have to pay 5 times that of china.

slinging insults back and forth isn't really helping nor making shoddy accusations. and at the end your beeing downright ridicolous. people will always cheat even if there is a surplus in spots and you can enter while beeing really really dumb.

besides, i'll bet the people who do get in will work extra hard, seeing as there are another 4.3 million people to take his/her place.....


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By EidolWays on 6/12/2007 3:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
Well, given that I'm an American, I feel I must speak about my shoddy, backslidden, perverse nation.

quote:
if you can live wityh the oppresive goverment

Indeed, my dear brother! Speak the truth, and speak it loud! We Americans have no free speech rights whatsoever! Speak your mind? Forget it! Free press? Pfft. All the talk shows, radio shows, and newspapers that go around? We're only made to think those're there and that Americans enjoy basic civil liberties that others don't. The stories of political dissidents being killed in other countries are made up to make us feel that we are advantaged!

quote:
the rapidly declining climate

It's too hot to BREATHE! Too many SUV's and plants and ARG! How on Earth the EVIL US of A has not melted from the face of the Earth due to acid rain, caused by levels of pollution that are immeasurably higher than the rest of the world, is a mystery to me!

quote:
where you have to pay 5 times that of china

And for an education that is of poorer quality, too! Foreign students only get visas to come to American universities because we've made them think that American universities provide a good education! Boy, we sure pulled a fast one on them, eh?

(For those of you with intelligence quotients that measure a mere fraction above that of the average clod of dirt, that was satire.)


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Darkskypoet on 6/12/2007 8:37:16 PM , Rating: 2
I liked the satire :)

Here in Canada we also have a massive amount of foreign students, however, you must realize that they come to foreign schools because many are:

a) rich, and a foreign degree is always a difference when applying for a job, or when one seeks to work and live in the new foreign nation.

b) not able to gain entrance to their own schools because of the many problems in a highly competitive (some times fair, sometimes unfair) system

c) because our schools, even at foreign student rates, are still far cheaper then those in other nations. Here in Canada we have a huge influx of foreign students every year. In my province, foreign tuition is double that of Canadian students. Which amounts to about $5500-$7500 CDN dollars a year. cheaper even then the domestic tuition fees of our southern neighbor.

As to the other points raised in your satirical rebuttal... Dude your nation is going down the tubes. Poke fun all you want, but Washington would have led a rebellion over the way your federal government stomps on states rights, blows up other countries, and the patriot act??? the patriot act??? How bout calling it Comrade's Communal Protection Pact. Your founding fathers, the quite awesome heroes of Liberty that they are portrayed as; would be rolling in their graves right now if there was any meat left on their bones to roll.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By Darkskypoet on 6/12/2007 8:26:33 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, I too had a very big problem swallowing the freely available line. Reality check:

Whats your program, and tuition?

Mine B.A (honours) I pay $3000/yr roughly for each of my four years, my books roughly amount to $5-700 CDN. But as everyone knows, is quite variable.


RE: Only 5.7 openings?
By jithvk on 6/12/2007 8:29:20 AM , Rating: 2
Limiting the no of seats is not always due to the lack of infrastructure. It may be useful to increase the quality of the education given. Here in India also, we have the same system. Some 10million students write the national medical, engineering, management, aerospace and other entrances. There are many "almost free" courses provided by the state govts having similar syllabuses. But only the people who are not qualified in the national entrance take those courses.


Forced....
By oTAL (blog) on 6/12/2007 10:55:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
A high level of competition to enter Chinese universities once again forces students to cheat


I've got to say I believe this is, at the very least, poorly phrased. Noone is ever "forced" to cheat, unless they are placed at a disadvantage towards the competition, "forcing" them to level the field. Even then, this is an arguable practice (at best).

From what I gathered from the article, noone was at a disadvantage except for their own capabilities. Everyone that worked hard and studied harder could do well and those who cheated did it out of choice - taking the easy path...

Have I ever cheated? Well... I have looked at the guy next to me, and I've occasionally traded a fast question and answer when the teacher left the room... but to plan an elaborate cheating scheme.... well... they had it coming and they should own up to it! It's a crime far worse than software piracy.




RE: Forced....
By dflynchimp on 6/13/2007 12:02:39 AM , Rating: 3
yet the fields are in fact very, VERY uneven. The gap between the rich and the poor is only a small part of it. Regional favoritism and many other forms or prejudice, as well as the practice of using ties and connections to gain upper hands, blurrs the lines between cheating by the students and "cheating" due to the nature of the social constitution. I was told by a person who graduated from the Beijing University that country born kids sometimes have to do 50% better than inner city kids just to obtain the same acceptance from colleges.


RE: Forced....
By jconan on 6/13/2007 12:49:57 AM , Rating: 2
Here in the states students can at least go to a community college for preparation before going to 4 year college. In China the students there are S.O.L. if they can't make it in their 1st attempt since there are limited openings per university unlike here where people take education for granted. Here you can still go to a prestigious 4 year college if you failed the 1st time on the SAT or ACT. Good luck elsewhere...


Re: 5.7m openings
By Super6 on 6/13/2007 2:03:23 AM , Rating: 2
There are about 50 million card carrying party members out of 1.3 billion people. That provides them power and privileges the rest don't have. The government is communist in name only as it is basically a corrupt dictatorship with close ties to the military. Communism is an economic system, not a form of government. Party members' kids get into the universities because of their connections, while the rest scramble to get into the universities. When they graduate it is normal to pay stiff bribes to get interviews for jobs and bribes to get a job offer. Most of the people are apolitical and simply want to live like us westerners. Most know something happened at Tienamen Square (and other cities also)but they don't know what. There are many demonstrations around the country but they are snuffed out quickly and the people end up in prisons or are summarily executed by party goons. The only Chinese that get away with protests, marches, etc. are in Hong Kong where the government is afraid of killing the goose that lays the golden egg. Millions marched against the first mayor who was finally removed from office and there have been frequent demonstrations against his replacement. The government blocks access to almost 100k web sites it deems dangerous. They are totally paranoid and the most important thing is "stability." People on the mainland have to apply for visas to visit Hong Kong. Last but not least, the government and the military consider the U.S. as their major enemy in this new century. Half of their military is stationed across the straight from Taiwan. Not only are they eating our lunch economically but they are buying the best hardware that Russia has and steals all the technology it can to prepare for us coming to rescue Taiwan when they attempt an invasion. Our carriers are the number one targets. I've been there and my wife is Chinese. The people are great but the government sucks big time.




RE: Re: 5.7m openings
By mndeg on 6/13/2007 4:15:56 AM , Rating: 2
How is that any different from good ol boy legacy admissions?
It's very easy to criticize China when American media is 100% always negative towards China. And they are always painted as very foreign and sneaky while America of course is always right.


By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 6/13/2007 7:23:10 AM , Rating: 2
There is a very clear distinction between party members and non-party members. The OP is correct, many of these students become party members in order to secure that last sliver of a possibility for a job, or college, or whatever.

My university has a very large program for Chinese state-sponsored students. All of them became party members to study in the U.S.

Interestingly enough, very few of them claim they'll actually be going back to China once their schooling is done, even though that was part of their requirement to come study in the U.S. in the first place.


Great! More people for the guest worker program...
By Noya on 6/12/2007 9:48:07 AM , Rating: 2
I guess we'll have no trouble filling the extra 50,000 H1B openings this year.




By FITCamaro on 6/12/2007 1:50:42 PM , Rating: 2
Did that go through?


TI?
By lufoxe on 6/12/2007 10:47:43 AM , Rating: 2
Dude, that bring back memories of written applications for formulas and writing notes in the program section.




RE: TI?
By Diesel Donkey on 6/12/2007 3:46:02 PM , Rating: 2
Notes in the program section were pretty hard to read due to the large characters. I always opted for drawing in small text on the graphing screen--that way you could fit a lot, although you could only save 10 pictures. I think the funniest part about making notes like that and continuing to write up equation sheets throughout my college physics education is that writing the notes served as a great study tool, but I never actually used them during the exam because by then I knew them too well!


typo
By Zelvek on 6/12/2007 12:22:12 PM , Rating: 2
Normally I could care less if there are a few typos but this time it affects the integrity of the article. 5.7 should be 5.7 million.




This is more about chinese culture
By rudy on 6/12/2007 12:58:08 PM , Rating: 2
I am sure their are plenty of universities in china as in any other Asian nation. Rather the problem is you cant come home if you didn't make it into the good school, it is a culture of success over all things at all costs. When you compete for a spot you are also competing against corruption from the children of the rich and political who have used "other means" to place their children in the top universities. The same type of cheating takes place on US entrance exams like the GRE. Which is usually the only measure US universities can really gauge a foreign student on. Also things like references are bought and sold in Asia its all about who you know or how much you can pay. That is why some chinese students are so good, if they cannot ace these tests they will not make it past the corruption if they do not have a powerful family. But on the same measure to many are mediocre and they are pushing more deserving candidates out of all the worlds universities since the graduate admissions boards can't tell the fake from the real scores and references.




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