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Free hardware boosted Blu-ray Disc sales numbers

Recent NPD Group sales data would suggest that the Warner Bros. Blu-ray Disc announcement just before CES 2008 had an immediate and dramatic impact on the sales of high-definition movie players, but new information shows that Blu-ray Disc may not be tipping the scales as heavily as originally thought.

Last week, Digital Bits published NPD numbers showing that 93 percent of new high-definition hardware sold was for Blu-ray Disc. According to BetaNews, however, NPD is not supporting those figures, saying that they were not an official release from the firm and not a long-term indicator of the industry.

While HD DVD did suffer some lost momentum due to the loss of Warner’s support, Blu-ray Disc’s overwhelming command in the new hardware split was potentially due to free player deals rather than new sales.

Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis for NPD, explained that Blu-ray Disc players part of bundle deals with sales of new HDTVs were included in the sales figures.

Sony, Panasonic and Sharp all offered free or heavily discounted Blu-ray Disc players with purchase of new televisions, driving up the hardware numbers. Samsung, on the other hand, did not offer any such Blu-ray Disc hardware bundle promotion, and thus sales of Samsung players were almost non-existent.

NPD receives its sales data from multiple retail point-of-sale systems in the U.S., but does not include online sales.

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Player Numbers are Pointless
By deeznuts on 1/28/2008 12:56:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The NPD figures did not include Sony's PlayStation 3 or Microsoft's HD DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 -- only standalone players.

Baker wouldn't get specific -- since NPD normally never even comments on weekly sales data -- but said there was some drop in HD DVD player sales. For its part, the HD DVD Promotional Group told BetaNews the weekly sales data was from before the HD DVD player price drop Toshiba announced last week.

With the PS3 being such a wildcard, in this war, it allows either party to spin the numbers, include/excluding the PS3 etc.

IMO, just keep an eye on media sales.




RE: Player Numbers are Pointless
By diablofish on 1/28/2008 1:43:25 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you in some respects. Studios care more about how much of their product (the movies) they sell as opposed to how many players get sold. However, more players sold indicates more people are committing to a format and are therefore more likely to buy the movies they are selling. But when one format is dominating the market 80/20 (or whatever it's been since WB's announcement), it's pretty clear which one is likely to stick around over the other one.


RE: Player Numbers are Pointless
By griffynz on 1/28/2008 11:00:19 PM , Rating: 2
They should include the HD-DVD Players because they ONLY play HD-DVD (DVD also but really would doesn't alreay have one). I brought mine for a PC and also 23 movies (talk about feet first). However what do you do with PS3 numbers??????? NOT everyone who buys a PS3 buys movies.


RE: Player Numbers are Pointless
By griffynz on 1/28/2008 11:01:51 PM , Rating: 2
They should include the X360 HD-DVD Players because they ONLY play HD-DVD (DVD also but really would doesn't alreay have one). I brought mine for a PC and also 23 movies (talk about feet first). However what do you do with PS3 numbers??????? NOT everyone who buys a PS3 buys movies.


RE: Player Numbers are Pointless
By mars777 on 1/30/2008 6:02:29 AM , Rating: 2
If they include the Xbox HDDVD drive they should include PS3s.
Remember that these numbers are standalone players, not PS3s.


RE: Player Numbers are Pointless
By 306maxi on 2/1/2008 6:08:35 AM , Rating: 2
Not really. If you've bought the HD-DVD drive for the XBox you hvae bought it to play HD-DVD's. You could buy a PS3 and never intend to even purchase a Bluray disc.


By Kindjal on 1/28/2008 9:04:52 AM , Rating: 5
I recently purchased an HDTV along with an HD DVD player and so I've been taking in interest in how HD DVD and Blueray are promoted.

In Target, for example, Blueray disks were located on two endcaps, one endcap even had a Blueray player playing sample video, while HD DVD was not promoted on endcaps. In addition, Target had a far larger selection of Blueray titles (of course there may be more Blueray titles).

In Best Buy, there was a freestanding Blueray display while HD DVD was relegated to the standard shelving with fewer titles.

Anyways, this was just my unscientific observations on how the HD DVD vs. Blueray market appears to a new HD consumer.




By theapparition on 1/28/2008 10:48:05 AM , Rating: 2
Believe me, I'm not trying to start anything here, and as a disclaimer, own both formats.

Sony is very prominent in Target since they paid them a marketing incentive. That is fact, but also not uncommon or underhanded for retail. Many companies will work with reatilers to "showcase" thier items, and as such provide payments to help the cost of the stores to rearrange displays and pay for advertisements. You'd be surprised to see the lack of control stores have for product placement.

Gillete (for example) pays very well to get thier products moved to endcaps where casual shoppers will walk by and say "Oh yeah, I think I need one of these."

As to BR/HD, I was initally attracted to HD, even though BR was technically superiour. I thought the cost of discs would be compatible with DVD, since very little infrastructure investment had to be made. Yet in the end, the discs cost the same as BR. If HD wants a real fight, they need to get the price of the discs on par with DVD. Until then, mass consumers won't make the switch.


By PitViper007 on 1/29/2008 1:01:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yet in the end, the discs cost the same as BR. If HD wants a real fight, they need to get the price of the discs on par with DVD. Until then, mass consumers won't make the switch.


Agreed. Either side can lower the price on the players all they want but until the price of the actual MOVIES comes down, people aren't going to bite yet. Early adopters yes, but the average Joe? I don't think so. And I neither own nor favor one format over the other. I'm waiting until there is a clear winner.


it may skew the sales numbers but...
By psypher on 1/28/2008 7:34:44 AM , Rating: 2
All those Blu Ray players are still out there in the hands of new owners who are probably going to use them and buymovies for them... So who cares if it was because of warner's announcement. The telling figures last week weren't the high number of Blu Ray sales, it was the extremely low number of HD DVD sales.




By kyp275 on 1/28/2008 7:58:55 AM , Rating: 4
I guess one can argue that since the high sales number for blu-ray was due to promotions, it would be a one-time phenomenon and may not repeat in the future.

On the other hand, it is nevertheless good PR for the blu-ray camp.


HD-DVD FUD
By winterspan on 1/28/2008 5:19:03 PM , Rating: 1
Does the author of this article even has ANY NUMBERS WHATSOEVER of how many free-with-HDTV BD players were sold versus standalone? If not, how can you possibly claim to know the impact?

And stating that HD-DVD "lost some momentum" from Warners announcment? Is that the biggest understatement made in 2008??? Give me a break! Hardware sales aside, DID YOU SEE THE HD MEDIA SALES BREAKDOWN AFTER CES ???

THIS IS A BUNCH OF HD-DVD BIASED BULLSHIT! I say fire the writer!




RE: HD-DVD FUD
By sweetsauce on 1/28/2008 10:41:37 PM , Rating: 2
Correct me if im wrong, but Marcus has been accused of being a ps3 fanboy in the past.


Only on Dailytech...
By Chiggs on 1/28/2008 5:38:46 PM , Rating: 1
...will you find a group of people so misguided they think HD-DVD will somehow recover. It's dead, Jim. Blu-ray will thrive...it may ever get as big as DVD was, but thrive it will...much to the chagrin of internet nimrods that spew crap like "DURRRR MINIDISC! DURRRRR ROOTKIT!"




RE: Only on Dailytech...
By SavagePotato on 1/29/2008 9:36:15 AM , Rating: 2
Dailytech no doubt will be the last bastion of hd-dvd. Even Ken Grafeo will figure it out before the faithful here.

Just sit back and enjoy the show.


By tallcool1 on 1/28/2008 7:34:57 AM , Rating: 2
If these companies want to give away players, all the better! Similiar to the out dated HD DVD player clearance that was going on for $99 before Christmas.




By killerroach on 1/28/2008 8:13:28 AM , Rating: 2
I don't see the electronics makers using these package deals as a way of pushing Blu-Ray players... I see it, in light of concerns about consumer spending and using the Warner announcement as good timing, using the cheap or free Blu-Ray players (with purchase) as a way of pushing HDTV sales...




Redbox
By kmmatney on 1/28/2008 8:56:25 AM , Rating: 2
The first format to go into Redbox machines will probably be the one I do with.




Hahaha, I love it.
By JustKidding on 1/28/2008 8:58:40 AM , Rating: 2
Inspired choice for the graphic, Marcus. I haven't seen spy vs spy for years, but it is spot on for the whole blueray vs hidef battle.




does it matter?
By diablofish on 1/28/2008 11:04:40 AM , Rating: 2
Does it even matter if they were sold or given to the consumer? As long as they count as part of the installed base that people are going to use to buy media for the format, I don't think whether they got them for free or paid money for them ultimately matters. If more people have those players (regardless of how they got them) the higher the chance is that those people will then buy the media that those players play. And the fact that Blu-Ray media sales increases with player sales demonstrates this.

Wasn't HD-DVD's strategy focused on reducing player price and advertising how affordable their players are? Yet when Blu-Ray "beats" HD-DVD's price by giving them away to consumers as part of an HDTV package, they don't count?

As I've stated in other posts, HD-DVD missed the biggest price point out there by not selling their media for less than Blu-Ray media. The players (in the relative cost category) are insignificant relative to how much people typically spend on media to feed their players.




HD-DVD is losing
By EnzoFX on 1/28/2008 11:19:25 AM , Rating: 2
They really are grasping at straws. Who cares if these were part of a promotion, HD-DVD had their own promotion in december, with their cheap, cheap, $100 players or something, a long with several free movies. This only proves that they both try to push their product out there, through these promotions. Even in december, Blu-Ray still outsold HD-DVD. Enough said..




Finally, a good reason to go HD
By wordsworm on 1/29/2008 1:12:47 PM , Rating: 2
Monty Python's Life Of Brian - Two-Disc Collector's Edition [Blu-ray] (1979)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VECAC6/ref=am...

What gets me is that they had to use two blu-ray discs to get it on. Now if they can get a free blu-ray player to me, I can see myself siding with it as *the* HD choice. Heck, I might even go for a blu-ray/DVD burner for $99. Someone wake me up when it happens, please.




Get a life HDDVD
By rupaniii on 1/28/2008 11:03:14 AM , Rating: 1
Please, you have 1 vendor making players.
Customers don't see any choice. If they like Sharp, LG, Sony, Samsung or Panasonic, they can buy a TV and player from the same vendor. It's better technology at the same price. Consumers aren't dumb. Bluray has more storage. All of the interactive BS can't help you when movies CAN look better and be better on the same size physical platform.




Maybe toshiba should...
By meewok on 1/28/2008 11:37:12 AM , Rating: 1
...discount their hardware, too. Oh wait... they've been doing that already. In the end, both formats are trying to do their best to get saturation into the market.

I have to admit, I am a bluray supporter (though not an avid one since I still think that upconverted SDDVDs can rival high def) and I've been somewhat jealous that Toshiba has been heavily discounting HDDVD players ever since the holidays along with 10 free movies. Then the Warner announcement came and the players dropped even further in price.

The point: Discounts/promotions are always there and will always figure into the numbers somehow, not just for BD, but for HDDVD as well.

I'm just going to rant here because I can. It's funny to read the debates on the forums about whether or not people should buy $130 HDDVD players. Yes, the HDDVD players make great upcoverting DVD players that can play HDDVDs, but if you have HDDVDs, you probably have a player already, which means that you should only buy it if 1) you already have HDDVDs (which means you most likely have a player already) and want to watch in another room, or 2) would like to overspend on an upconverting DVD player.

I really am tired of hearing marketing spin from both sides, though. I read the number "facts" just for amusement. It's not the numbers themselves that are funny, but the spins that people try to put on them. Ultimately, the numbers are completely out of context and without this context, they really mean nothing.

And yes, I do agree that the future is actually more about streaming and that the format war is probably moot (unless the broadband providers start charging exorbitant prices for high QoS bandwidth).




Players are a thing of the past anyway...
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 1/28/08, Rating: -1
By AlphaVirus on 1/28/2008 10:56:55 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why buy into a specialty player and media when you are just going to have to replace them soon anyway?

Who said they need to be replaced soon? How long have people had a dvd player in their house, years. How long did people have walkmans when they came out, years.

Lets be realistic, excluding techies and enthusiast, how many people update their home theater equipment frequently?

quote:
BTW, HD DVDs are given away in XBox machines as well.

Orly? Since when? Do you mean HDDVD player or movies?
I knew they sold the HDDVD player by itself but I never knew they packaged anything with the purchase of a 360.

To make your argument pointless, a PS3 comes with a BluRay player built into it no matter which SKU you buy which the 360 does not.


RE: Players are a thing of the past anyway...
By deeznuts on 1/28/2008 12:53:54 PM , Rating: 2
Your post is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. The future is in bits? Yeah the same bits that are on CD's, DVD's, and Blu-Ray right?

Get a big RAID'd HD system. Ok. Go peruse any tech forums, how many enthusiasts and so-called techies have problems with their RAID? Now translate that into everyone you know. Sure ok.

It ain't soon buddy. Time Warner and Comcast are evidence that unlimited digital downloads are not well liked by ISPs.

HD DVD were given away in xbox machines? Where? MOvies or Players? Either way, neither was given away for free.


By Alexstarfire on 1/28/2008 10:53:10 PM , Rating: 2
That's because the ISPs don't want to have to update their crap. I'm certain that the future is in digital downloads as well, but that may not be for years to come, and certainly won't happen anytime soon.


By tallcool1 on 1/28/2008 12:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Who needs to get a player when the future is in bits, and not in the media or players? Just get a big RAIDed HD system and then download your movies.


Dream on...
This is not a pratical solution at this time.
The only people that are doing something like this now, would be people illegally doing it.
Besides, there are a lot of consumers that do not have the high speed internet connection to even make this possible. Let alone some RAIDed HD system your dreaming about.


By blaster5k on 1/28/2008 1:16:02 PM , Rating: 3
Still got some time before downloading full quality 25-50GB HD movies becomes a reality. Probably will go in that direction eventually, but we still need advances in storage technology and internet bandwidth. In order for people to feel safe enough with those digital downloads to not opt for a physical disc, RAIDs will have to go mainstream too (and perhaps media PCs).


More players to become obsolete then...
By edhe on 1/28/08, Rating: -1
By Helbore on 1/28/2008 8:44:57 AM , Rating: 5
Unless I'm mistaken, but v1.0 Blu-Ray players WILL play 1.1 compliant discs. The only issue will be that certain special features will not work.

If this is the case, then I doubt most consumers will care. Sure, its hardly a shining glory for Blu-Ray , but I doubt it will act as a major set-back, either.


RE: More players to become obsolete then...
By anonymo on 1/28/08, Rating: -1
By Schadenfroh on 1/28/2008 9:06:06 AM , Rating: 2
Blu-Ray is not a Sony format, but IP in it is owned by several companies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Associat...

Maybe if one wants access to movies on Blu-Ray, purchase a player made by one of the other creators of Blu-Ray like Panasonic?

If one hates Sony so much, I take it that one never purchased compact disc devices (developed by Phillips and Sony) or DVD (maintained by Toshiba, Philips, Sony, and several other companies).


RE: More players to become obsolete then...
By Vanilla Thunder on 1/28/2008 9:53:57 AM , Rating: 2
C'mon now....minidisc rocks. Maybe not for all applications, but for things such as live sound recording, etc. they did a damn good job. I've still got mine, and use it to this day.

Vanilla


By Samus on 1/28/2008 10:03:39 AM , Rating: 2
I have a minidisc player in my Mazda Protege5

It's awesome. I use it daily. It's been very reliable (harder to damage than CD's, I can throw them all over the place) and I have the NetMD recorder that burns MP3's as ATRAC3 in excellent quality at 4x speed (about 15 minutes a disc)

Overall, its a technology that never caught on here in the states, but was well recognized all around Japan.


By joemoedee on 1/28/2008 10:14:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm continually angered by Sony's constant cash crab in the emerging media markets (Beta/MD/MMCDs for example) that always translate into the consumer suffering.


Sometimes Sony hits (CDs, PlayStation), sometimes they miss. (MD, BetaMax) I'm thankful they take their swings, though.

Them being in the markets with their competing technologies is a good thing. Competition drives innovation.

Additionally, competition drives lower prices to you, the consumer.

Early adopters can sometimes suffer (BetaMax, for example) by their chosen platform not being chosen by the masses. However, that can be applied to any early adoptor of any non-established platform from any company.

At least Sony has the ability and balls to try to throw something out there, and their accomplishments AND failures have done a lot to improve a lot of the technology all of us use today.


By EnzoFX on 1/28/2008 11:22:31 AM , Rating: 2
sorry, but anyone that chants the old "sony pushing down its formats" and lists off minidiscs, betamax etc. etc
is simply severely uninformed, perhaps ignorant? That is where I stop reading.


RE: More players to become obsolete then...
By Schadenfroh on 1/28/2008 9:01:48 AM , Rating: 3
The 1.1 movies themselves will play in 1.0 players, they just will not be able to watch the special features from a picture within a picture (possibly a few other "special features" may not work).

The current Samsung player problems with recent movies are due to the Broadcom chips used in them (not profile 1.0 versus 1.1).

The deals were not just profile 1.0 players. IIRC, Panasonic was bundling the BD30 with their TVs as well, which is a profile 1.1 player.

Regarding the premature release, it was either (greatly increase the chance of) losing to HD-DVD or release a format that lacked certain special features and implement them later (while maintaining full backwards compatibility for the movie itself). It looks like Panasonic, Sony and the other creators of Blu-Ray made the correct move.


By bfellow on 1/28/2008 12:15:37 PM , Rating: 2
Actually 2.0 (like Saw IV) BD-discs are appearing and there are a few Profile 2.0 BD players right now.

Such is the drawbacks of being an early-gen adopter of technology, the Profile 1.0 and 1.1 Blu-Ray players will play newer discs but miss the special features like PiP (1.1,2.0) or Blu-Ray LIVE (2.0).

Here's a good chart on the differences of Blu-Ray players.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=98...


MMM spin
By SavagePotato on 1/28/08, Rating: -1
RE: MMM spin
By djc208 on 1/28/2008 10:32:40 AM , Rating: 2
What spin machine? I didn't see anything references the HD-DVD group or Toshiba at all. Even all the posts that were present at the time I posted none of them really try to spin this as HD-DVD coming back.

The article merely said that the company that complied the data isn't confirming it yet due to special circumstances. No different than the fighting that went on over if the PS3 should be counted as a player sale or not.

Hell if anything most of the complaints center around BD no having a final standard, which personally is my biggest annoyance at the format as well. With DVD and HD-DVD the players may have added more features but the disks will play the same in all of them.
With BD what features and abilities you have will depend on what version of the format your hardware supports. Most people who got a free player won't care yet, but there will be plenty of annoyed BD owners the first time they can't pull up some cool PIP feature because their BD player doesn't support it.


RE: MMM spin
By SavagePotato on 1/28/08, Rating: 0
RE: MMM spin
By tallcool1 on 1/28/2008 1:12:35 PM , Rating: 2
Cool PIP feature???

I have PIP with my Cable box, tried it and won't use it again. I find PIP to just be annoying. Could you imagine going to a movie theater and them having a PIP setup on the big screen? LMAO!!!


RE: MMM spin
By Farfignewton on 1/28/2008 10:35:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there will be plenty of annoyed BD owners the first time they can't pull up some cool PIP feature because their BD player doesn't support it.


Anything is possible, but I doubt that will happen. I'm pretty sure I've seen all 10 North American PIP fans here on Dailytech swearing they will never buy Blu-Ray. ;)


RE: MMM spin
By retrospooty on 1/28/2008 11:11:34 AM , Rating: 2
Although it looks like HD-DVD's days are numbered due to the studio support thing, neither has much marketshare at this point... Its idiotic to look at weekly numbers and react at all. I think its more of a headline grabber then anything substantial. The price drops that occurred on HD-DVD the following week will likely counter balance it.

Up this week. down that week. Yadda yadda yadda.

Wake me up when I can get a 1080p player for under $100 and all movies released are available on it at the day of release. Then is when most people will buy into it.


RE: MMM spin
By y2chuck on 1/28/2008 12:52:02 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. I remember an article here a while back about sales comparisons that stated Walmart sales weren't taken into account but the article title was still something dramatic like "BD outsells HD 3 to 1" or something.

When whichever camp comes out and says "I quit, you win" I'll listen, until then I'm voicing my opinion by not buying anything.


RE: MMM spin
By othercents on 1/28/2008 11:23:28 AM , Rating: 2
The drop in HD-DVD sales is expected if Blu Ray is giving away players with HDTVs. What you have to figure out is how many players were purchased in conjunction with HDTVs in the past. It makes sense that someone who wants a bargain HD Player would choose HD-DVD instead of Blu Ray. However if there is a free Blu Ray then those bargain shoppers would just choose a TV that came with a free player.

Based on the numbers over 80% of the HDDVD buyers are uninformed people who only care about price and can be easily swayed by price. However Blu Ray jump might have more to do with people buying an HDTV and accidentally getting a free player (wow thanks, but I have a DVD player).

Now anyone informed about HDDVD might not choose it at this point because they know that HDDVD is in a predicament. Everyone else that purchased one must not have been informed and already had an HDTV at their house, so they purchased the cheapest HD Player available, or what the Jones have down the street.

Other


RE: MMM spin
By adiposity on 1/28/2008 11:46:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The drop in HD-DVD sales is expected if Blu Ray is giving away players with HDTVs


According to these numbers, Blu-ray increased by 6513. HD-DVD dropped by 12,800. Therefore your implied premise that HD-DVD drop is solely due to Blu-ray bundles does not hold water. At most 50% of the drop can be attributed to this. I'd say it's extremely unlikely that 100% of the Blu-ray increase came from potential HD-DVD buyers, anyway. A lot of these people were most likely just happy to get a free player with their TV, and weren't going to buy a high-def player in the first place. Others may have already wanted a blu-ray player but chose to go with the bundle, as a perceived better deal. And finally, the group that you focus on, there were probably some idiots who just wanted "any old" high-def player who accepted the free one that came with their TV.

So actually, the big story here is that HD-DVD dropped like crazy. Even the increase in Blu-ray sales can't account for it. Total HD player sales were down significantly, which might point to the HD market getting worse overall. Of course, it's all wild speculation when comparing results from one week to the next.

-Dan


RE: MMM spin
By griffynz on 1/28/2008 11:08:12 PM , Rating: 2
How many of these Blu-ray free drive owners will buy a cheap HD-DVD player to sit need to it soon so thay can watch the OTHER movies...Once you see HD on a good sized HD screen you can get the bug.


RE: MMM spin
By Locutus465 on 1/28/2008 11:43:05 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, NPD was reporting this. This didn't come from toshiba at all.


RE: MMM spin
By RamarC on 1/28/2008 12:04:55 PM , Rating: 2
these are all BS numbers, because there are no unit sales figures, just relative percentages. the january week dip was particularly dumb since the holiday season just ended and sales typically dump the first two weeks.

maybe someone could point me to the sales figures of total units shipped per month for blu-ray vs. hd-dvd.


RE: MMM spin
By deeznuts on 1/28/2008 12:50:29 PM , Rating: 2
What difference does it make? Its a war between HD DVD and BD. All you need are the percentages. Don't give me no BS about DVD is still kicking their butt. VHS whooped DVD's butt when it knocked of Divx, and continued to do so for 5 or 6 years.


RE: MMM spin
By RamarC on 1/28/2008 2:32:41 PM , Rating: 2
the difference is this: suppose hd-dvd sold 200,000 units in december vs. 100,000 for blu-ray. (you can find toshiba's sales figures easily, but blu-ray figures are invisible.) now if week 2 of january's total sales were 1,000 for hd-dvd and 9,000 for blu-ray, then blu-ray outsold hd-dvd 9 to 1. but the sales volume is nothing to brag about and it doesn't come close to tipping the past 3 months sales in favor of blu-ray.


RE: MMM spin
By tallcool1 on 1/28/2008 1:19:48 PM , Rating: 5
High-Def Sales Split Skewed by $99 HD-DVD player clearance!

How about that title?


RE: MMM spin
By mcnabney on 1/28/2008 9:55:44 PM , Rating: 2
Discounting a $150 player by 33% isn't the same as discounting a $350 player by 100%.

Surely you can see that? Those cheap HDs were being sold just a bit over cost to clear old stock. The free BDs are a goodie being used to entice the buyer to part with 10x that amount on a big TV.


RE: MMM spin
By Belard on 1/29/2008 7:43:09 AM , Rating: 3
How about that Circut City is selling off the A3 (with 2 discs) for $100 clearence price at their stores.

There is no "A4" coming out to replace it. $130 wasn't cheap enough?

Sign of the times...


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