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Sony banks on "future-proof" tech to win next-generation console war

Back in May, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) president Ken Kutaragi was quoted as saying that the $499 and $599 price points for its PlayStation 3 were "probably too cheap." Today, Sony CEO Howard stringer again defended the steep price of entry and justified its pricing structure to the best of his ability.

"The price of the PS3 is high... But you're paying for potential. Obviously, it's a higher-risk strategy as all new inventions are. But if the PS3 lives up to its total potential, then I don't think anyone will be worried about Nintendo or Xbox's cheaper price," said Stringer. Considering that consumers feel that a console purchase to be a long-term investment, Stringer feels that the PlayStation 3 is more future-proof which will allow potential customers to justify the price tag.

Stringer also notes that Hollywood studios may be the ones who determine whether HD DVD or Blu-ray wins this battle. Gamesindustry.biz reports:

Stringer went on to concede that Hollywood movie studios, currently divided over whether to support Blu-Ray or Toshiba's rival HD-DVD format, could ultimately determine who wins the next-gen war. However, the Sony CEO believes that film execs are "beginning to sense, in Blu-Ray, that the pendulum is swinging, and swinging for a clear reason" - namely that Blu-Ray discs can store more data.

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HMmmmm
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 6/26/2006 11:01:56 AM , Rating: 2
Well Sony has put all their eggs in one basket this time. Normally thats a bad strategy in business, since diversifying leaves yourself stable regardless of what happens. But this is either going to win big, or lose big for Sony. If they can win it, they will win it big. But if they can't, the cost of failure is extremely steep this time around, it might be enough to make them re-evaluate some of their current strategies.




RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 11:10:11 AM , Rating: 1
> "Well Sony has put all their eggs in one basket this time"

The PS3 is their only basket? Did you forget?

Digital Cameras and Camcorders
Monitors
Desktop Computers and Laptops
Projectors
Car Audio
Recordable Media
Online PC Games
Pro Broadcasting Gear
High end Tape Drives
MP3 players
Mobile Phones
GPS Navigation
Semiconductors
Motion Picture Studios
Record labels (Columbia, Epic, etc)


RE: HMmmmm
By sxr7171 on 6/26/2006 5:25:06 PM , Rating: 1
None of which makes money. Next.


RE: HMmmmm
By Xavian on 6/26/2006 5:30:07 PM , Rating: 3
You *have* to remember very few parts of the Sony Corperation are actually making profits, Sony has reported net losses on every fiscal quarter since 2002. Sony is relying on the sheer licencing profits of being the winning format. They are not going to be making profits off the PS3 for quite some time (with the reported $200-$300 loss on every PS3 sold even at $599, plus development costs of Cell, Blu-ray and the PS3 itself)

Details on Sony's 5th consecutive quarterly year loss:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060621/japan_sony.html?.v=...


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 11:12:16 AM , Rating: 1
Considering it'll have more processsing power than your average $2000 desktop (not to mention a free Blu Ray drive, which will run you $1000 as a separate unit), it very well might be worth a measly 500 bucks. Why not wait and see?


RE: HMmmmm
By Tebor0 on 6/26/2006 11:19:15 AM , Rating: 1
Pretty sure I can do a lot more with my $2000 desktop than I can with a DVD player and video console. Processing power is only part of the equation and that raw power means nothing if developers can't take advantage.

Wait and see... sure.. but horrible comparison.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 11:25:00 AM , Rating: 1
> "Pretty sure I can do a lot more with my $2000 desktop than I can with a DVD player and video console"

Sony is trying to make just the opposite case...that'll you be able to do a lot more with your PS3 than your average desktop.

Do I believe them? Its marketing after all...but I'm willing to wait for more details before I make a snap judgement that the PS3 "isn't worth" its asking price.


RE: HMmmmm
By Tebor0 on 6/26/2006 11:38:09 AM , Rating: 2
The "is it worth it" question is going to be personal to each and every buyer so there's not going to be a right answer.

When really considering the product though it is too expensive. It's too expensive for a game console. $600 to play video games is rediculous. I can pretty much guarantee that you won't be able to install your copy of Office or Photoshop on the PS3 so that kind of kills the computer idea. Unless you're just wanting something to chat and browse the internet with and still you're better off with a cheap computer.

Besides.. this idea of this being an "investment" for the future and future tech... we're all talking about the same thing right? The tech that changes almost daily and still hasn't settled on a final initial format yet? Yeah.. future proof... right.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 12:21:36 PM , Rating: 1
> "too expensive for a game console. $600 to play video games is rediculous"

Rather more accurate to say "$500 to play video games, watch Blu Ray or DVD movies, and surf the Internet". For many people, that's a downright steal.


RE: HMmmmm
By Tebor0 on 6/26/2006 2:59:26 PM , Rating: 2
If I'm buying the PS3 for the Blu-Ray player then I've got high end equipment already and would likely rather spend the extra coin on a high end Blu-Ray player. The video game part would be just an added bonus and I'd probably be buying it anyway on top of another stand alone player.

If I'm an average user this purchase only becomes a "steal" after I've upgraded all my other equipment to all the new standards (HDMI for example) so that I can use see HD in all it's glory. By the time all my stuff is upgraded though I bet I'll be able to afford a better Blu-Ray player because it's now several years later and the tech has settled and oh crap.. my "steal" of a deal PS3 might now be out of date compared to those cheaper players.

This "steal" also depends on the format war. My "steal" could end up being a big rip-off if Blu-Ray doesn't become a major standard.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 6:08:41 PM , Rating: 2
> "If I'm buying the PS3 for the Blu-Ray player then I've got high end equipment already and would likely rather spend the extra coin on a high end Blu-Ray player"

What sort of backwards logic is this? People are trying to claim people can't afford it...but they'll more likely to buy a standalone player at twice the price?

Fact is, the PS3 is being positioned for several different market segments:

- The hardcore Playstation fan, who will stay with the franchise regardless
- The hardcore gamer, who will buy the PS3 AND the 360
- The more casual gamer, who is willing to spend a little extra for Blu Ray capabilities.
- The budget videophile, who wants Blu Ray but doesn't want to shell out a full $1000+ for it.



RE: HMmmmm
By Zelvek on 6/27/2006 1:45:19 AM , Rating: 2
Thats a fairly small demograph and not all in it are going to buy PS3's.


RE: HMmmmm
By Scrogneugneu on 6/26/2006 10:31:27 PM , Rating: 2
How about this :

- I already have a DVD player with a DVD collection of movies, and I see no need at all to get some higher-priced stuff of the same kind just for the sake of it.

- I already have a computer, which already has access to the internet, therefore I don't think the Internet ability of the PS3 will be so useful to me.

- I already have a computer AND some gaming consoles, along with some games, enabling me to play video games.


So, all in all, everything the PS3 offers me, I already have. The difference?

- It's gonna be HD

The downsides?

- I'll have to pay for the console
- I'll have to pay for the games (again)
- I'll have to pay for the movies (again)
- I'll have to pay for the TV


So, your conclusion is perfectly right. It is a steal. Sony is (trying to) stealing me.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 10:47:31 PM , Rating: 1
> "How about this - I already have a DVD player with a DVD collection of movies, and I see no need at all to get some higher-priced stuff "

Never fear. No one is going to knock on your door and force you to upgrade to either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. You can die and be buried with your old DVD movies if you wish...I'll even toss a few VHS tapes in with you for nostalgia's sake.

There are those of us, though, who appreciate higher video quality, and who don't want to wait a few more years for it. I already own an HD-DVD player...and I intend to buy a PS3 as well. I'm sure I'll get my money's worth out of both.


RE: HMmmmm
By peternelson on 6/26/2006 4:08:48 PM , Rating: 3

Sony have said PS3 will run linux.

If that is true who cares if it won't run MS office, because openoffice can be run.

Who cares if it can't run photoshop since the GIMP can be run.

The big problem with linux is it doesn't support Windows GAMES.

BUT the PS3 overcomes this disadvantage as it will have hundreds of optimised games specifically for it.

Getting all this for $600 is a real steal.

I will either pay that much, or wait until after the holidays when prices are expected to drop a little (as has happened with x360) when it will be even better value.

Hey for a HDMI1.3 deepcolor pattern generator, it will be worth the cost alone.


RE: HMmmmm
By epsilonparadox on 6/26/2006 4:57:25 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 might run linux but if it provides the dismal support like it did for PS2, it won't count for much more than a marketing gimmick.


RE: HMmmmm
By Zelvek on 6/27/2006 1:51:14 AM , Rating: 2
Ah sure it will run linux... maybe. Lets not forget that Tivo is runing Linux and it won't do any thing as dramatic as what your claiming. So that means that odds are one will need to mod their PS3 for that sort of price who wants to risk that other than us geeks and who will even know about it other than us geeks.


RE: HMmmmm
By CKDragon on 6/26/2006 12:18:41 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Sony is trying to make just the opposite case...that'll you be able to do a lot more with your PS3 than your average desktop.


If anyone entertains the idea for more than 5 seconds that you'll be able to do more with a PS3 than an average desktop then that person is a fvcking idiot.

That is all.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 12:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
> "If anyone entertains the idea for more than 5 seconds that you'll be able to do more with a PS3 than an average desktop then that person is a fvcking idiot. "

Considering the average person uses his computer to do nothing more than:

Surf the Internet
Play Games
Watch DVDs

And the PS3 can do all that, *plus* display hi-def Blu Ray discs, then, in at least that sense, it already does allow one to "do more".


RE: HMmmmm
By TomZ on 6/26/2006 1:10:29 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree - I think average folks are doing a little more than that with their PCs. Digital cameras and camcorders now bring more focus to those multimedia aspects of the PC. I know lots of people that upload pictures on their PC to print them, e-mail them, or upload them to photo-sharing web sites. Also, I know of a lot of people making "light" use of Word and Excel on their PCs. I think that PS3 will probably lack many of these capabilities.

The competition, IMO, is not between PS3 and a person's "desktop computer"; it is between PS3 and a media center PC that a person would potentially have in their entertainment center. But even there, the PS3 probably is a little handicapped, since it is pretty easy to get a media center PC that has dual tuner cards and has a huge HDD for storing recorded shows.

Finally, why are we comparing a PS3 to a $2000 PC? Who spends that much on a PC any more? Most people are spending only $500-1000 on a PC these days. So the price ranges for PS3 and a PC are about the same.


RE: HMmmmm
By samuraiBX on 6/26/2006 1:11:44 PM , Rating: 2
argh, beat me by four seconds!!! Though I agree with everything you're saying.


RE: HMmmmm
By peternelson on 6/26/2006 4:14:43 PM , Rating: 3

Some people spend £2500 on a pc (about $5000) so we cannot compare with those kind of systems.

We can only compare with a comparable price PC ie $600.

And by the time you upgrade the pc with a nextgen optical drive HDDVD or Bluray, the price goes up significantly.

Therefore I believe the PS3 has a niche.

Yes people including me will still want PCs for certain things, but many others will be content with a PS3.

Don't forget many households have more than one PC. We're not saying a PS3 on every desk, we are saying that ONE of those PCs can be replaced by a PS3. Therefore I believe they will sell.


RE: HMmmmm
By samuraiBX on 6/26/2006 1:10:33 PM , Rating: 1
Sorry Masher, that's not quite true. The average person also prints things and will use a word processor program. Also, fact is that most households that would entertain buying the PS3 are in the demographic that already has a DVD player. Given that the next-gen DVD wars are also still ongoing, I'm not sure I see too many people sinking in $500 for:
"Surf the Internet
Play Games
Watch DVDs"
and the computer can do all that, *plus* print and do word processing, I doubt that it actually does more.
As for those the computer/PS3 discussion, which would you rather get for your kid anyway, a dell $500 special of the day where you could arguably get them to do homework or a 'game system', regardless if you buy into the Sony marketing hype?


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 1:16:18 PM , Rating: 2
> "Sorry Masher, that's not quite true. The average person also prints things and will use a word processor program"

I know quite a few people that never print anything from their PC. In any case, given the PS3 has Bluetooth, wired, and wifi connectivity (not to mention memory stick support), I find it likely to believe that a photo retouch-and-print application, and possibly a rudimentary word processor, will be sold at some point.

> "and the computer can do all that..."

The average $500 computer doesn't play Blu Ray discs, nor HD content of any type. And while it 'plays games', it does so at a level far below what the PS3 is going to strike.

> "As for those the computer/PS3 discussion, which would you rather get for your kid anyway"

Why, both of course.


RE: HMmmmm
By TomZ on 6/26/2006 1:53:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I know quite a few people that never print anything from their PC. In any case, given the PS3 has Bluetooth, wired, and wifi connectivity (not to mention memory stick support), I find it likely to believe that a photo retouch-and-print application, and possibly a rudimentary word processor, will be sold at some point.

I don't think so, mainly because of device drivers. I can go to the store and buy any make/model digital camera and any make/model of printer, bring them home, and they will work on my PC. They key to that usability is due to the device drivers, and I find it highly unlikely that Canon, Nikon, HP, etc. will start writing device drivers for all their devices for PS3 to make all that work together.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 2:09:25 PM , Rating: 2
> "I find it highly unlikely that Canon, Nikon, HP, etc. will start writing device drivers for all their devices for PS3 "

You don't need device drivers for the cameras-- the PS3 can use the memory stick directly. All you need is a device driver for the printers. And I can easily believe Sony would write that themselves, at least for the HP line.


RE: HMmmmm
By TomZ on 6/26/2006 2:57:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You don't need device drivers for the cameras-- the PS3 can use the memory stick directly. All you need is a device driver for the printers. And I can easily believe Sony would write that themselves, at least for the HP line.

What about my Nikon that doesn't use memory sticks, or Canon, et al.? Will Sony support all 6-7 media types, plus USB for cameras that don't have removeable cards?

As for device drivers, there is a lot of code in, e.g., HP device drivers. I doubt the low-level protocols used via USB, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc. are either public or published, and HP probably can change them often, since they don't expect anyone to program to them.

I also doubt Sony would be in a position to develop drivers for, and support, drivers for all the popular printer manufacturers times the number of models that each manufacturer has. HP alone has released hundreds of just inkjet printers in the past few years. HP can barely do the driver job right; I doubt Sony could even come close.

Seems like "mission impossible" to me - same reason Apple can't support all the devices as Windows can.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 4:54:29 PM , Rating: 2
> "What about my Nikon that doesn't use memory sticks, or Canon, et al.? Will Sony support all 6-7 media types, plus USB for cameras that don't have removeable cards? "

No, of course not. They'll support memory stick only...which means it'll work with Sony cameras. Not the largest market segment, but still a segment.

> "I doubt the low-level protocols used via USB, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc. are either public or published"

N, it doesn't work like that. Those are public standards. They have nothing to do with HP specifically. Once you move above the transport level, you get to HP-specific code. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the lower-level protocol....and HP publishes that, as well. They have a vested interest in giving people the information needed to write device drivers for them.

> "I also doubt Sony would be in a position to develop drivers for, and support, drivers for all the popular printer manufacturers times the number of models "

Once again-- it doesn't work like this. HP uses a standard printer language across most its line. The individual 'drivers' for each model differ in a few tweak values, not in code essentials. Many of them don't even differ at all...they're the same driver, given a different tag name.




RE: HMmmmm
By TomZ on 6/26/2006 6:31:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No, of course not. They'll support memory stick only...which means it'll work with Sony cameras. Not the largest market segment, but still a segment.

I would call that a small segment, and I don't think consumers will be excited by a system that only supports Sony cameras, but maybe I'm wrong.
quote:
N, it doesn't work like that. Those are public standards...and HP publishes that, as well.

Yes, I realize that USB et al. are open standards, but what I'm taking about is the packet protocol used to communicate with the printers. For laser printers they have PCL, but I am not aware of the same for inkjet printers. My impression was that for inkjet printers, there is more processing in the driver level and basically just low-level data being sent to the printer.

Do you have a reference for documentation for HP inkjet printer protocols?
quote:
Once again-- it doesn't work like this. HP uses a standard printer language across most its line.

Again, I realize that, but my point is that Sony would have to dedicate a team of engineers to developing and tracking all this, and I don't really see how such an investment would pay for itself.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 10:55:15 PM , Rating: 3
> " but my point is that Sony would have to dedicate a team of engineers to developing and tracking all this, and I don't really see how such an investment would pay for itself. "

By selling the end product, of course...an application allowing you to print directly from the PS3 to most common printers. I'd bet close to half of PS3 buyers won't own a computer already...so such a program could be very useful to them.


RE: HMmmmm
By Zelvek on 6/27/2006 2:02:04 AM , Rating: 2
There is no way in hell that sony will put all this work in lets face it if they make all theses extras like printing and camera suport and word processing etc etc they will need engies to do it all wich cost mony and sony will not make any money on these extras as they are from other companies. Therefore sony will lose a shitload of money on the PS3 and game revenue is not enough to make up for this so basicaly none of this extra crap is ever going to happen.


RE: HMmmmm
By bobsmith1492 on 6/26/2006 6:27:34 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, USB standards are public knowledge, for sure; we just finished writing a USB driver for a microcontroller... it is a pain, I assure you. :)


RE: HMmmmm
By TomZ on 6/26/2006 9:01:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Oh, USB standards are public knowledge, for sure; we just finished writing a USB driver for a microcontroller... it is a pain, I assure you. :)

I agree, but the USB specification doesn't describe the packet protocol, i.e., the contents you put into bulk or iso packets, right? You had to decide that for your project/product. That's what I'm getting at with the HP inkjets.

BTW, been there, done that. USB is hell for software developers. Nice cheap simple hardware, but the software is a pain in the neck.


RE: HMmmmm
By cochy on 6/26/2006 3:00:52 PM , Rating: 2
Should have proof read some typos outta there. Sorry :P


RE: HMmmmm
By peternelson on 6/26/2006 4:19:44 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 will support linux.

Cameras and usb sticks have no problem with drivers.

Many printers have support in linux for printing.

Therefore as long as consumers restrict their printer use to manufacturers who are supported under linux (many) then they will not be limited to printing out their word processing etc.

There will in any case be similar driver problems with Vista ie which manufacturers have written certified Vista drivers for their old printer models?


RE: HMmmmm
By TomZ on 6/26/2006 6:33:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
PS3 will support linux.

Yea, we'll see about the Linux thing. PS2 Linux didn't exactly set the world on fire. I think it's mostly marketing BS.

Vista can use XP drivers for most everything except for high-end graphics, so the same situation doesn't exist there. Also, even if it did, Windows has 95% desktop market share, so there is a strong incentive for printer manufacturers to release updated drivers for new versions of Windows.


RE: HMmmmm
By Zelvek on 6/27/2006 2:08:09 AM , Rating: 2
Not to menten that most companies already have beta and nearly finalized drivers for vista already. As for the Linux thing as I already said TiVo runs linux and is not capable of any of this without moding. The average consumer wont be aware of this ability and/or won't be willing to risk damaging their pricy PS3. Also because the PS3 hardware is so differnt from that of a PC all the linux stuff will need to be rewriten wich will take a fair bit of time.


RE: HMmmmm
By cochy on 6/26/2006 2:57:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The average $500 computer doesn't play Blu Ray discs, nor HD content of any type. And while it 'plays games', it does so at a level far below what the PS3 is going to strike.


lol oh man. PC's have been HD gaming for 20 years already. Anything displayed at SVGA (800x600) or greater is "HD". When did the first SVGA monitors come out? I've been gaming on my Samsung 900nf at 1200x1600 resolutions for years. That's a higher resolution than 1080p out of the water. If you really want HD gaming then just hook up a SLI rig into one of those 30'' Dell UltraSharp 3007WFP for wonderful 2560x1600 gaming. Here's the news flash: HD is only new to the living room. PCs have been doing it and doing it better than anything before and now for decades. The PS3 will never replace a PC but in my mind it's still a wonder piece of living room technology at a fair price considering what it's packing.


RE: HMmmmm
By peternelson on 6/26/2006 4:21:49 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, 800x600 can be termed "ENHANCED definition".

You need to be talking 720 lines or eg 1024x768 to be correctly termed "high definition".


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 4:59:51 PM , Rating: 2
> "lol oh man. PC's have been HD gaming for 20 years already...displayed at SVGA (800x600) or greater is "HD"."

Hehe, I can see you haven't been using PCs nearly that long.
20 years ago, CGA ruled the roost. That was 320x200 pixels...with a grand total of SIXTEEN colors. VGA didn't hit the stands till around '88...and even then it was limited to 256 colors, meaning displaying video on it was impossible.

"HD gaming" didn't start until XGA allowed something approaching true color. ("hi" color). And that was, unless you were rich, in the 1991-92 timeframe.



RE: HMmmmm
By cochy on 6/27/2006 9:37:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hehe, I can see you haven't been using PCs nearly that long.


Well I definitely exagerate some numbers to get my point across. Point is HD gaming has been around for quite a while.


RE: HMmmmm
By Lakku on 6/26/2006 11:19:54 AM , Rating: 2
You don't know if it will have more processing power, because frankly, the numbers they have used are based on theoretical numbers. I could get a dual core CPU and dual/quad GPUs (yes, if I spent half the allotment on four GPUs) that, if you use Sony's logic, can produce a wholelottagiglaflopdoodles. But in reality, it doesn't. Anyway, in regards to all that stuff Sony makes above, only their projectors are worth anything anymore, because I can find much better products for less money in almost ALL of those categories, save projectors (yes, they make awesome 10k to 200k and beyond projectors that can't/or are very hard to beat). Anyway, Sony has fallen and with their arrogance, I hope PS3 fails. Besides, we don't know if Blu-Ray will have more storage as they can't seem to reliably make double sided storage, but HD-DVD can, thus giving them the edge. Not to mention that HD-DVD uses the newer HD compression formats and BR does not, meaning BR is going to be wasting space until it switches over.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 11:32:08 AM , Rating: 2
> You don't know if it will have more processing power...

I most certainly do know. The computational power exists; the only question is how efficiently PS3 applications can make use of it.

> "I could get a dual core CPU and dual/quad GPUs [that] can produce a wholelottagiglaflopdoodles...

There's a lot more to the equation than the core count of Cell. It's a vector processor and is therefore, for certain types of operations, far faster than a general-purpose processor. In the best case scenario (which is admittedly a special case) Core can outperform even a quad-processor desktop by a full order of magnitude.

A chap from IBM came around our lab several months ago, and dropped off several copies of the Cell SDK. Its really a very interesting chip.

> "Sony has fallen and with their arrogance, I hope PS3 fails."

An emotional and ultimately unreasonable response. I hope the PS3 succeeds. Competition is good for the market.

> "Besides, we don't know if Blu-Ray will have more storage as they can't seem to reliably make double sided storage, but HD-DVD can, thus giving them the edge"

I have the Toshiba HD player now. I still hope the PS3 succeeds. Concerns about "format wars" are rather overblown, in my opinion.


RE: HMmmmm
By Lakku on 6/26/2006 11:37:30 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, I agree that Cell itself is interesting. Though last I checked, and I could be wrong, a LOT of the processing power Sony claims actually comes from the RSX side of the equation. It was something around 2 teraflops? And the RSX was said to amount to around half that or more. I was making the, albeit probably wrong, assesment that 4 (essentially) RSX chips in a PC would, using their logic, produce more power alone then all of the PS3 chips, inc. Cell, combined.


RE: HMmmmm
By peternelson on 6/26/2006 4:25:32 PM , Rating: 2
Cell IS interesting, and PS3 is the cheapest way for me to play with Cell.

Sony is definitely not owned in the broadcast equipment market eg digital VTRs, highdef broadcast monitors and cameras etc. Rather Sony is the "gold standard" by which competitor products are assessed.


RE: HMmmmm
By Lakku on 6/26/2006 11:32:34 AM , Rating: 2
Let me rephrase the I hope they fail part. That's not a fanboy comment. It's like being at a party and someone is being super anoyingly cocky and thinks he/she is the cat's meow and/or shiznit. But, they then trip on the rug and hit their face and spill their drink all over their fancy shirt. You laugh, you know you just got satisfaction. That is what I mean, that they are being super cocky and I hope they fall and hit their face, just like if MS said You should pay even more then our already low asking price of 600 dollars for this awesome game <cough> BR player <cough> machine, I would hope they hit their face too.


RE: HMmmmm
By peternelson on 6/26/2006 4:30:54 PM , Rating: 2
Heh, so if Sony sell millions at $600 then reduce the price to $400 or $500 as bluray volumes bring economies of scale, which causes millions more people to buy it, THEN

Will it be YOU who is spilling your drink down your shirt?

And may we all laugh at YOUR misreading of the market?

I'd say Sony are being quite courageous to launch a product of this kind and push things forwards (Microsoft just stayed with dvd and analogue connections and a games-only machine that can't run linux). Some products fail (ie ipod is beating them on market share of music players), others succeed (like PS2 and maybe PS3).

How many products have YOU launched recently?


RE: HMmmmm
By Lakku on 6/26/2006 8:48:06 PM , Rating: 2
How many products have YOU launched recently?

What does this have to do with anything? Does it matter if I do or do not launch products? How many products has a PERSON, by themself, launched recently? I don't see the basis, but if I must acknowledge it, how many Sony products has launched recently that aren't doing so well or haven't done so in the past? Let's see, their MP3 players, LCDs aren't doing as well as they need to be since they are losing money in that department, UMD, the PSP is getting owned by the DS, and we won't mention older things like Betamax etc. Sony does not have a stellar track record outside of their computer entertainment division, in recent memory. Yes, broadcasting gear is good, but most of it is CRTs and high end cameras, things very few others do well at. Sony had good TVs back in the day of CRTs. But this is beside the topic at hand. So essentially you pointed out their only success in the last 10 years, Playstation.

If by millions, do you mean more then 10 to 15? Because everyone says MS isn't doing well this gen (Xbox), but they still have 25 mil sold. Yes, they will sell millions because Japan will gobble it up, but the bigger picture is to watch Europe and the US, far bigger markets then Japan. This won't be easy and people in the US DON'T have the expensive TVs to get the full benefit of this fancy BR stuff. Noone cares, and I promise you that. As people have stated, they are BANKING on BR, PERIOD. Ask anyone on the street, few know what BR is or even care. They just spent money getting their library on DVDs, why start again with BR? Not to mention there are ALREADY new formats not far off that are better then both HD-DVD and BR. How is this all a good idea again?

Lastly, I think people need to realize most of us here are techies. Of course we find new tech interesting and neat, but the average consumer only cares about decent quality at value. Why do you think so many buy home theaters in a box? It's cheap and does the trick, just like DVD does. The Xbox 360 fits just fine with their relatively new HDTVs, with their analog connections. And of COURSE it can't run Linux.. what the hell is the point of that statement? Anyway, consumers won't want to spend hundreds more and get a new TV just to use BR. If I am wrong, I am wrong, go ahead and laugh and defend Sony without looking at the big picture. But what they are doing may be business suicide, as they are LOSING over HALF A BILLION a year right now. They better hope it works out.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 10:59:19 PM , Rating: 2
> "Does it matter if I do or do not launch products?"

When you're trying to outguess a company that has launched many succesful products, and who has spent a large amount of time and money considering these issues-- it matters.

> "everyone says MS isn't doing well this gen (Xbox), but they still have 25 mil sold"

MS did fair with the XBox...and far better than many analysts believed they would. As for their sales, had they sold 25 million all in the first year, it would have been a smashing success. 25 million spread out over the entire product lifetime is, while certainly not a failure, not a smashing success either.


RE: HMmmmm
By Zelvek on 6/27/2006 2:19:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
When you're trying to outguess a company that has launched many succesful products, and who has spent a large amount of time and money considering these issues-- it matters.


No not realy I mean how many products have market anylist launched? Yet they are experts on this.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/27/2006 2:49:32 AM , Rating: 2
> "how many products have market anylist launched? Yet they are experts on this. "

Some have launched quite a few. Others merely have training and experience in the relevant market...which makes them far more of an expert than someone whose experience with consoles is limited to spilling beer on them during a good gaming session.

In any case, just to clarify my position, I don't *believe* the PS3 will do extremely well. My opinion is strictly neutral....I'm simply debunking some of the ludicrous "proofs" people are advancing as to why it cannot possibly succeed.


RE: HMmmmm
By BladeVenom on 6/26/2006 2:25:13 PM , Rating: 2
I'd be willing to bet a cheap Pentium D 805 could beat it at most tasks. By the time the PS3 actaully comes out a $600 PC will probably be able to beat it in almost everyway, except as a Blue-ray disc player.


RE: HMmmmm
By wiiz3rd on 6/26/2006 1:43:55 PM , Rating: 2
Yep, I'll wait alright...Wait until price drops to $150.


RE: HMmmmm
By SaintSinner1 on 6/26/2006 1:45:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Blu Ray drive, which will run you $1000 as a separate unit), it very well might be worth a measly 500 bucks


How about if SONY will tel you blue-ray drive cost $5000 as a separate unit then PS3 might be even better deal ehehehe Silly little fairy ...


RE: HMmmmm
By Xavian on 6/26/2006 5:41:14 PM , Rating: 2
indeed, finally someone who can see the glaring flaws in Cells design. Sites like arstechnica clearly point out some pretty significant flaws, a CPU is supposed to be a general purpose processor, it performs the general calculations that the highly specialised GPU's cannot. Cell is clearly designed for media capabilities but absolutely abysmal on general purpose processing (see Normal programs and games, not HD movies).

Not to mention the sheer pain it will be for developers to code for the amount of cores, Cell has.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 6:13:08 PM , Rating: 2
> "Not to mention the sheer pain it will be for developers to code for the amount of cores, Cell has. "

SIMD programming isn't really that difficult. And sites like Arstechnica did their "review" long before the Cell SDK was available...a tool that offloads much of the work of parallelization for you. As the Cell compiler improves, it'll only get better.

> "Cell is clearly designed for media capabilities but absolutely abysmal on general purpose processing "

Here's the catch. The types of processing which Cell does poorly (branchy scalar code) are those for which current CPUs already tend to run as fast or faster than needed.

The code Cell excels in are the tasks for which heavy horsepower is needed. Media processing, physics, vector math, manipulation of large array structures, etc.


RE: HMmmmm
By saratoga on 6/26/2006 3:09:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Considering it'll have more processsing power than your average $2000 desktop


Retarded statement. It'll have better vector fp performance sure, but then so does my old radeon 9600. The reason you buy a CPU instead of running everything on a GPU or DSP is that you need scalar too, and scalar is the hard part to do fast.


RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 5:51:10 PM , Rating: 2
> "It'll have better vector fp performance sure, but then so does my old radeon 9600."

It'll have better performance for any code structurable in SIMD format, not just vector math. And it'll have roughly equal performance for everything else, as long as its not extremely branch-heavy code.

Single-threaded scalar code may be "the hard part" to do fast. But hard problems (i.e. slow-running code) doesn't typically fall into this category, especially for games. The jobs that need the highest processing power are those best suited for multiprocessing and/or SIMD calculation.





RE: HMmmmm
By HardwareD00d on 6/26/2006 6:53:34 PM , Rating: 2
I hate to burst your bubble, but PS3 has all kinds of problems right now. They are not getting even close to X360 performance because of several design flaws. Cell is not tapping out very well and is running way below it's expected speed. Video has roughly 1/2 the rendering power of X360. Sony has already lost. Sony will try and PR/Hype this POS because they know all the suckers that believe everything they hear will buy it.


RE: HMmmmm
RE: HMmmmm
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 11:04:19 PM , Rating: 2
There are no serious design flaws with Cell. The local bandwidth issue was addressed long ago. Cell SPE's don't *need* high local bandwidth, which the Cell SDK makes painfully clear to developers.

Anyone quoting TheInquirer should be forced to take a long, hot bath afterwards. Taking a few pictures of slides is easy...actually understanding the content of those slides is much more difficult.

Let's not forget that Cell is *already* being used in other products besides the PS3. Mercury has some high-end image processing equipment using it...and they're quite happy with the performance.


Yes it will affect sales sony
By tk109 on 6/26/2006 11:01:35 AM , Rating: 3
I already know I'm not buying one because of the high price.

They can try to tickle our ears all they want. It doesn't mean it's truth. There are a lot of people who are going to pass on the PS3 because of price. I know I'm not the only person out here that feels this way. Not by a long shot. This is one thing your marketing BS can't fool us on Sony.




RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By akugami on 6/26/2006 1:27:58 PM , Rating: 3
Sony lies all the time. That's the truth. Too many lies to list. This press release seems to be Sony trying to stay in the lime light and to try to convince those on the fence about buying the PS3 that it's a good buy. Fanboys will have no problem forking over $600 for the PS3 and that alone should get Sony to 10 million in sales. The problem is what happens after that. It's the mainstream that makes or breaks your system nowadays and I'm not convinced that a $500-600 game system is going to sell well.

If the PS2 is any indication the PS3 will be a POS as far as movie playing goes. I know how people and Sony like to tout it as a cheap affordable Blu-Ray player but it better have MUCH MUCH better media playing ability than the PS2 which quite frankly was pathetic.

I do hope Blu-Ray succeeds as it seems the better format than HD-DVD but I hope the PS3 fails so we don't get another company trying to saddle us with overpriced gaming consoles any time soon.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 1:47:36 PM , Rating: 1
> " Fanboys will have no problem forking over $600 for the PS3 and that alone should get Sony to 10 million in sales....It's the mainstream that makes or breaks your system nowadays...

I have news for you. Ten million units most certainly is the mainstream.

> "If the PS2 is any indication the PS3 will be a POS as far as movie playing goes."

Given Sony's desire to position the PS3 as more than just a gaming console-- and their plans for the success of Blu Ray-- it's a fairly safe bet that the video quality of the unit will be acceptable.



RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By robber98 on 6/26/2006 2:18:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Given Sony's desire to position the PS3 as more than just a gaming console-- and their plans for the success of Blu Ray-- it's a fairly safe bet that the video quality of the unit will be acceptable.


Consider how Sony messed up DVD playback quality when PS2 released, I don't expect too much from PS3. The picture quality maybe acceptable BUT for $600 and all I get is "acceptable" picture quality? Give me a break...


By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 4:39:03 PM , Rating: 3
> "Consider how Sony messed up DVD playback quality when PS2 released"

One, the PS3 is not the PS2. Its a higher-priced unit, sold at a different time, and aimed at a different market. Two, DVD was not a Sony format; Blu Ray is. Three, the PS2 didn't exactly "mess up" DVD playback badly. I know more than one person who used it exclusively without any complaints.

Compared to newer DVD players that are far cheaper, quieter, and with better image quality-- the PS2 was pretty dismal. But, for the time it was released, it was actually quite decent a unit.

> "BUT for $600 and all I get is "acceptable" picture quality? Give me a break... "

Aren't you being a little unrealistic? Even if the picture quality was simply "acceptable", you're getting far more than that. The PS3 isn't a $500 Blu Ray player. Its a $500 combination Blu Ray player, videogame console, Internet station, and probably a few other things too eventually.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By Kilim on 6/26/2006 2:57:32 PM , Rating: 2
I remember a little system that sold 10 million units and failed. It was called the Dreamcast.


By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 4:47:27 PM , Rating: 1
> "I remember a little system that sold 10 million units and failed. It was called the Dreamcast..."

Had Sega sold those 10 million units in the first year, they'd have been a stellar success. As it was, it certainly wasn't a "failure". It lasted three years, spawned over 250 games, and held the title of "fastest selling console ever, until supplanted by the PS2.



RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By akugami on 6/26/2006 4:21:57 PM , Rating: 2
I have news for you. Ten million units most certainly is the mainstream.

And I have news for you. Considering today's market, 10 million units is unreachable only by the most laughable of systems. That's the minimum any contender should be selling. I'm going to stick by my opinion that 10 million units is roughly in the area of the hardcore and fanboy sales area while going past that is when your system hits mainstream. If you had said 10 million units was mainstream 10 years ago, I'd agree but not today considering the size of the games industry.

Given Sony's desire to position the PS3 as more than just a gaming console-- and their plans for the success of Blu Ray-- it's a fairly safe bet that the video quality of the unit will be acceptable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sony want the PS2 to be your all in one media hub as well? Same mission statement, different number after "PS" is all it seems to me. And Sony has a habit of overselling and under delivering. I don't want acceptable video quality. I want good to superb video quality. Especially when I'm spending $600 clams (which I can easily afford). I don't want a mediocre (the PS2 dvd navigation was utter crap) media navigation system. I own a PS2 and I only used it a handful of times to play dvd's because it just sucked too much for viewing movies.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By Xavian on 6/26/2006 5:11:40 PM , Rating: 2
good post, indeed the PS2 was touted to "replace your PC, make your PC obselete etc etc".

Its the same marketing crap just a different generation, everyone remembers the "Emotion Engine" right? Ken Kutaragi's "4D" for PS3 is exactly the same marketing crap as the "Emotion Engine" for the PS2.

Personally i think Sony is in for a very rude awakening at the end of this generation, the competition is far far more capable this time round. Plus with Sony virtually placing all its eggs in the Blu-ray basket, if Blu-ray fails sony could be in for a rough decade.

With sony reporting a net loss on every finanical quarter since 2002 (not small amounts either mind you), with only the Playstation and TV parts of the business actually making profits.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 5:34:26 PM , Rating: 1
> "Considering today's market, 10 million units is unreachable only by the most laughable of systems"

Lol, if you think its easy to manufacture and sell 10 million of ANYTHING-- even paperclips-- try it yourself. If Sony sells 10 million units inside the first year, the console will be a success.

> "Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sony want the PS2 to be your all in one media hub as well? "

For a large percentage of the 100 million owners-- it is. Its their sole entertainment system.

In any case, you miss the point. The point is not whether the PS3 (or even the PS2) WILL become the "entertainment hub", but how many people will buy it with that expectation. We're talking market success here...and expectations drive that, not realizations.




RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By akugami on 6/27/2006 6:18:50 AM , Rating: 2
Lol, if you think its easy to manufacture and sell 10 million of ANYTHING-- even paperclips-- try it yourself. If Sony sells 10 million units inside the first year, the console will be a success.

I don't know if you are purposely missing my point or not. What I am saying is that each and every market has to be considered seperately in order to consider if X number of sales is niche or not. For instance, selling 10 million units of anything is more than respectable but that doesn't make it a mainstream product. Forget games systems for a second. Lets say I create a new type of pen called the Akugami. Now, there are billions of users of pens but I only sell 10 million pens. Does this make it a mainstream product? Heck no. I can still be successful selling my 10 million pens but it is in no way anything more than a niche product.

By the same token, all I am saying is that considering the size of today's market, selling 10 million game consoles is a good achievement but it is only the bare minimum one needs to sell if they wish to succeed. It is also a number which I consider to be niche when there are potentially 100+ million buyers of game consoles. It is after this 10 million unit mark, which I consider easily reachable by the big 3 in game consoles today, that will determine which console has gone truly mainstream (such as the PS2) and which is more niche/fanboy/hardcore (such as the Gamecube).

For a large percentage of the 100 million owners-- it is. Its their sole entertainment system.

In any case, you miss the point. The point is not whether the PS3 (or even the PS2) WILL become the "entertainment hub", but how many people will buy it with that expectation. We're talking market success here...and expectations drive that, not realizations.

The majority of PS2's may have been bought with the intention of using it as a primary all in one entertainment hub. Which is different from "sole entertainment system." But the sad fact is Sony promised the world and vastly under delivered. My point was that the PS2 is not the entertainment hub that Sony wanted it to be. It is a great entertainment system due to it's vast library but it sucks as an entertainment hub. I agree some of the initial folks got suckered into thinking it was going to be an entertainment hub. I didn't, even though I bought one early. But from past experiences with Sony's marketing hype, a lot of the hardcore folks and even a lot of the mainstream are catching on to Sony over promising things. Most of the early adopters are NOT going to be buying the PS3 as anything other than a games system.

The problem is that the majority of people buying the PS2 only did so after it dropped below $200. Most of those folks did not buy it for being anything other than an entertainment system. And by that I mean games only. While an entertainment hub would have media playback (music and movies) along with the games. The price of the PS3 is simply out of the reach of most folks. Don't think geek here, think mainstream. The folks that will really propell a games system are the great unwashed masses so to speak. Those folks can't afford a $400 console much less a $500-600 console even if it doubles as a Blu-Ray player because to them, a DVD is just as good as a Blu-Ray on their 32" non HD TV.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By masher2 (blog) on 6/27/2006 8:35:40 AM , Rating: 1
> "My point was that the PS2 is not the entertainment hub that Sony wanted it to be..."

But since you made this statement in response to my point about video playback quality for the PS3, you obviously feel the two situations are connected. They are not. The PS3 may have outstanding, average, or dismal video quality. We just don't know at this point. And trying to draw conclusions on the subject from an earlier console are specious and unwarranted.

> "The problem is that the majority of people buying the PS2 only did so after it dropped below $200..."

You need to step back and listen to what you're saying. By your own words, the PS2 (aka by far the most succesful console in history) was overpriced at launch. Most people couldn't afford one. Yet it dominated the industry for half a decade.

So while you indeed make a valid point...I'm not sure it's the point you believe it is.



RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By akugami on 6/27/2006 9:53:46 AM , Rating: 2
The difference between the PS2 and PS3 is that the PS2 was expensive at launch and was bought by the hardcore players for it's large library. Especially considering backwards compatibility with PS1 games. I never said the PS2 was overpriced. Just expensive and not affordable to the mainstream public who can't afford to spend $300 + tax on a games system and then have to spend another $50 to buy a game with it. Did it dominate the industry? Yes, especially considering for most of it's life the Gamecube wasn't that much less in price than the PS2 and the Xbox was very late to the game.

The PS3 is indeed overpriced. We are talking, depending on configuration, 2/3 to twice as expensive as the PS2. If Joe Consumer has a hard time spending one week's paycheck on a games system for his kid, what makes you think he's going to spend half a month's pay for a PS3?

So the PS2 started at $300 and dropped in price. Again, it dominated the games industry but it didn't really attract the more casual gamers until it hit below $200 and especially when it hit $150. This being the case, the PS3 would have to drop from $500-600 to $250 and below before it really starts to attract the Joe Consumers of the world. The Xbox 360 is already at $300-400 and will drop to $150-200 by the time the PS3 hits the $250-300 mark. Both are offering similar levels of graphics and most games being cross platform, this is unlikely to change by much. What incentive, besides Blu-Ray is there to really buy a PS3 from Joe Consumer's viewpoint? Blu-Ray's promise is hi-def movies but the majority of consumers do not have an HDTV. To them, DVD's look the same as a Blu-Ray on their TV's.

All I said originally is that I think the PS3 will have a hard time dominating the industry as the PS2 did due to it's high price point and that until it drops drastically in price it won't attract the mainstream consumers. Due to the expensive lenses used for Blu-Ray playback, it's price is unlikely to drop unless Sony is going to take an even bigger loss on each console than they already are. The PS3 also has a much further price drop to go than the Xbox 360 or Wii. The lower prices of those two system are likely to sap a lot of buyers away from Sony's PS3.

I think for some odd reason you're desperate to make the PS3 sound like a great deal. It's not. While I can afford a PS3 it's unlikely I will buy one due to it's high price point. I was underwhelmed by the E3 conference when Sony showed games that looked like it can be done on the Xbox 360. I just don't see it as a good value when a competing game system nearly half it's price performs about on par with it. While I like the Blu-Ray format better than HD-DVD, at this point I just don't see buying either format is a smart move. Not to mention the majority of the people do not have HDTV's so they will not see any difference between Blu-Ray and regular DVD video playback.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By obeseotron on 6/26/2006 2:19:59 PM , Rating: 2
Blu-Ray is nowhere near as mature as DVD was when the PS2 launched. Back then the average person knew what a DVD was, ask a normal person what a Blu-Ray Disc is today and you'll get a blank stare.

I'd venture to say EVERY HDDVD and Blu-Ray player released in the next year is going to be awful, PS3 included.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 4:48:47 PM , Rating: 1
> "Back then the average person knew what a DVD was, ask a normal person what a Blu-Ray Disc is today and you'll get a blank stare..."

But...the PS3 is not being launched "today". Ask the average person what a BR disc is around Christmas time, and I suspect most are going to have heard of it.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By Xavian on 6/26/2006 5:20:52 PM , Rating: 2
i very much doubt that masher, DVD had been around a good while when the PS2 came out. Another important part of the PS2 puzzle was that DVD was the ONLY format, the whole industry (in the form of the DVD Forum) was behind it. With Blu-ray and HD-DVD competing quite feircely for the majority of consumers i doubt the Blu-ray player in the PS3 will have nearly the impact as the DVD player for the PS2.

The beginnings of DVD was in development around 1990, some 10 years before the PS2 launch, Blu-ray in comparison has been in development for only 3 years, with the PS3 to be launched this year. Blu-ray (or even equivalent HD-DVD) isn't going to be suddenly mainstream by christmas, it took a considerable amount of time before DVD finally become mainstream.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 5:45:17 PM , Rating: 1
> "Blu-ray in comparison has been in development for only 3 years, with the PS3 to be launched this year"

Um, no. Sony demo'd a concept Blu Ray recorder at CES over three years. Work on the standard itself started over five years ago.

In any case, you're not making an apples-to-apples comparison. The differences between DVD and analog videotape are far greater than BR and DVD. The standard therefore doesn't need nearly the same level of time...much of it is simply drawing on the experiences of DVD.

> "Another important part of the PS2 puzzle was that DVD was the ONLY format"

What nonsense is this? If you look back the launch of the PS2, VHS sales and rentals were still FAR above those of DVDs. There were also a couple of other mini-videodisc formats out at the time, though they didn't stand the test of time.

When the PS2 was initially designed and demoed to the industry, the inclusion of the DVD drive was seen to be a bit of a risky move, despite what a shoe-in it appears in the our hindsight from 2006.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By PreOmegaZero on 6/26/2006 8:06:52 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
In any case, you're not making an apples-to-apples comparison. The differences between DVD and analog videotape are far greater than BR and DVD. The standard therefore doesn't need nearly the same level of time...much of it is simply drawing on the experiences of DVD.


Exactly why it will take longer for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD to be accepted. Some people are just getting around to DVD and now 2 competing formats are trying to get everyone onboard to a product that doesn't offer them a huge jump over DVD WITHOUT buying a brand new Television? Not for the prices they are charging.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By masher2 (blog) on 6/26/2006 10:44:20 PM , Rating: 1
> "Exactly why it will take longer for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD to be accepted"

But much *less* time to get either format stable...which was the point to which I responded.

> "now 2 competing formats are trying to get everyone onboard to a product..."

But you see, that's just it. Neither format is trying to get "everyone onboard" right away. They are both positioned for early adopters and videophiles only at this point. Hell, 80% of the nation doesn't even own an HDTV yet. Do you think Toshiba and Sony fail to realize this? Not hardly.

Once we move to another litho node, and some integrated playback ASICs are available, players will be be made available for the mass market. For now, the product(s) are positioned just where the manufacturers wish them to be.


RE: Yes it will affect sales sony
By Zelvek on 6/27/2006 1:38:46 AM , Rating: 2
Lets do some math on this one. If 80% of the USA has not got a HD TV then using the the US census site ( http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.ht...) only 59814657 people in the US have HDTV's the large majority of people in that demograph I'm sure you will agree are in their late 30's to 40's. This is not exactly a group of people who are trying to by a game console and since these people tent to be a group who want the best of everything odds are they will not be buying the PS3 as a blu-ray player. so I therefore highly doubt that the PS3 will do as well as you seem to think. Basicaly blu-ray is a waste in the PS3 as those who want blu ray are not going to buy a ps3 to get it perhaps a year from now blu ray will make sense but for the time being I think it will have a bad effect on sales not a good one.


By masher2 (blog) on 6/27/2006 2:44:19 AM , Rating: 1
> "only 59814657 people in the US have HDTV's..."

But of course you don't *have* to have an HDTV to buy a PS3 or an Xbox 360. If you think the demographic is limited to only those with HDTVs, you're wrong.

Since you missed the point, I'll clarify further. Only those people who have HDTVs will be interested in a PS3 primarily as a Blu Ray playback device.

> " the large majority of people in that demograph I'm sure you will agree are in their late 30's to 40's..."

Those people tend to have children. Children tend to play videogames, I think you'll agree.

> "these people tent to be a group who want the best of everything odds are they will not be buying the PS3 as a blu-ray player..."

Totally fallacious logic. I've already explained why several times; why not read one of my prior posts?







Rather amusing