Print 69 comment(s) - last by Belard.. on Dec 3 at 11:22 PM

GTA IV for the PC -- comes fully equipped with DRM to prevent you from... err... stealing it.

Practice safe gaming; you better watch out if you pick up GTA IV-- sure it looks pretty attractive on the outside, but it might leave your computers with some nasty DRM extras.  (Source: Rockstar)
Rockstar says it will use the controversial SecuROM 7 technology found on EA's Spore on both online and brick and mortar editions of the game

One of the most divisive topics in the music and gaming industry is digital rights management (DRM).  DRM is the umbrella under which industry efforts to stop piracy via software protections fall.  DRM schemes range in how restrictive they are, but they typically are invasive, sometimes installing programs on a user’s computer.

In an ironic twist, Rockstar Games has decided to adopt DRM to make its latest edition of Grand Theft Auto -- GTA IV for the PC -- harder to steal.  In a move that perhaps puts its status as the gaming industry's most edgy developer at risk, Rockstar is adopting the SecuROM 7 DRM scheme, which rival EA has championed with titles such as Spore and Mass Effect.  It is interesting to note that EA tried unsuccessfully to acquire Take-Two Interactive, Rockstar's parent company, earlier this year.

Unlike EA's titles, GTA IV will not have a limit on the number of computers it can be installed on according to Rockstar's initial statements on the topic.  Rockstar defends its decision to jump on the DRM bandwagon in the online gaming site, stating in an interview, "We invest a considerable amount of time and effort to release each title, and employ a large number of people in the process. Having copy protection allows us to protect the integrity or our titles and future investments… SecuROM is the most effective form of disc based copy protection and allows us to manage authenticity on a global level for Grand Theft Auto IV."

Another consolation, according to Rockstar is that the system will now allow gamers to get a code to activate their games on a different computer.  This will allow users without home internet to activate their titles. 

There are definitely some downsides to Rockstar's implementation as well.  Unlike Spore's implementation of SecuROM 7, you will always need Disc 1 of the game in the drive in order to play it, probably due to the looser installation restrictions.  Also, if you upgrade any of your major system hardware such as graphics cards, RAM, or the processor you will need to reauthenticate the game.

Despite these negatives, Rockstar believes that it is in touch with its gaming audience, stating, "Vocal 'board posters' seem to be most down on the SecuROM feature that limits the number of installations.  We recognize that the installation limits have been a major issue, so we have not limited the number of installations for the retail disk version of GTA IV PC."

However, the most controversial feature of SecuROM 7, the inability to remove it and the fact that its UAService7.exe executable remains.  The feature has led some in the computer security community to equate it to malware.

Rockstar says it’s working with SecuROM to create message board posts on how to remove these intrusive installations.

While GTA IV for the PC will be available via STEAM, it too will be coming with a hot cup of DRM, which may disappoint some fans who were hoping the online release would be free of the copy protections, as some online distributions are.

Apparently Rockstar is taking the theft of its new title so seriously it is even programming Easter eggs in to assail the unsuspecting game pirate.  The company states, "Aside from the fact that warez are a great place to pick up a Trojan or key logger, using a cracked copy of GTA IV PC will result in varying changes to the game experience. These can range from comical to game-progress-halting changes."

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And yet
By nangryo on 12/1/2008 12:34:13 AM , Rating: 5
How many days this will delay the pirate version to come up in the torrent site? I guess not more than two weeks. So what's the point? Is that two weeks really give much sale of the protected 'original' games? How much they will get if they actually just remove the securom and throw the money to make the games more cheaper.

Well, we'll never know....

RE: And yet
By HaZaRd2K6 on 12/1/2008 1:04:57 AM , Rating: 5
Well, consider that Fallout 3, Spore, Mass Effect and other blockbuster games all used SecuROM 7.x encryption and were all on torrent sites within hours of their release.

Any kind of DRM doesn't actually help end users. It just makes it more of a hassle for customers who are willing to buy the game when it's going to be checking for a disc and phoning home all the time. I try to avoid publishers who I know use encryption methods like SecuROM or StarForce (Ubisoft for instance, although I'm not sure if they still use StarForce/SecuROM).

RE: And yet
By headbox on 12/1/2008 1:49:52 AM , Rating: 2
I'd love to see the cost of DRM vs. the number of people who say "I couldn't figure out how to pirate it, so I guess I'll go buy it."

RE: And yet
By quiksilvr on 12/1/2008 2:17:28 AM , Rating: 1
I just don't understand why game developers don't just do text advertisements. They are obviously working for Google and last time I checked, they are making bank on that. Now I don't like the Adsense idea they are trying to do, I would much rather see text along the bottom, side or top of the screen (let the gamer choose) and stop with this DRM and monthly fees.

RE: And yet
By Plague421 on 12/1/2008 3:04:54 AM , Rating: 2
Most README files are pretty straight forward and step by step, at least any of the ones I get, but I can't argue those people do exist.

RE: And yet
By VaultDweller on 12/1/2008 8:10:29 AM , Rating: 5
I see this argument come up all the time, and frankly it doesn't hold any water.

Yes, there are people who won't be able to get pirated games working. Quite a few, I'd imagine.

However, I'd ask you to look at an .nfo file from five years ago. Now, look at an .nfo file for one of these new Securom 7 titles. Notice any similarities? Perhaps notice that the install notes in the new nfo are copied verbatim from the old ones?

So, how has the investment in more restrictive DRM made it harder for people to pirate? From the end-user standpoint, it hasn't changed a single thing. Copying a crack file is just as easy now as it was in the year 2000. Ostensibly it's supposed to be harder for release groups to create the cracks now, but I haven't seen any evidence of delays. Spore was still released before it hit retail.

So, what exactly does SecuROM 7 offer that age-old CD checks don't, other than user frustration, an artificially limited lifespan for the purchased product, and a shitstorm of bad PR for the companies using it?

RE: And yet
By Lerianis on 12/1/2008 8:51:57 PM , Rating: 2
That would be a downer for the companies in question. Personally, I went online to ThePirateBay...... Mass Effect, Dead Space, ALL OF THEM..... on there within 2 hours after release, fully cracked.

Even LEGO BATMAN.... which I honestly thought people wouldn't bother to crack since it's a 'kids game' and reasonably priced.... was on there within a day after release.

RE: And yet
By nosfe on 12/1/2008 3:21:48 AM , Rating: 2
ubisoft doesn't use starforce anymore, not since those lawsuits; in fact the second expansion for heroes5 came without any protection whatsoever

RE: And yet
By AlexWade on 12/1/2008 8:22:01 AM , Rating: 5
I say we band together. Lets organize a class action lawsuit, I don't care if the lawyers get all the settlement money. Lets organize and buy one specific DRM infested game, sue EA and SecuROM and whomever else we can for ruining our computer and forcing us to re-install. If we organize and band together, we can get this accursed DRM off games. Let the lawyer keep the money, I just want to go back to the good old days where I was innocent until proven guilty.

RE: And yet
By Belard on 12/1/2008 4:27:07 PM , Rating: 2
You can't sue the maker for installing the game when you clicked on YES on the EULA during the installation process.

Now... we MAYBE able to SUE the game companies if you BUY the game, open the package, don't AGREE to the EULA and can't get your money back. Since most retail outlets have rules about accepting opened software/DVDs (because people either used them as free rental or copied).

A game worth having is a game worth buying.

RE: And yet
By MikeMurphy on 12/1/2008 6:12:08 PM , Rating: 2
Rule #1 Hackers will break DRM and provide pirated clean copies worldwide.

Rule #2 Elaborate DRM will not stop these talented hackers.

Rule #3 Simple DRM would have nearly the same effect to deter piracy as the elaborate DRM.

Summary --- If you can't stop the most talented hackers with your DRM don't bother using it. Use simple DRM instead as it is enough of a deterrent for joe-average.

I was VERY excited about buying this game tomorrow. Rarely do I go out and purchase these games but the quality of this series is exceptional. I am no longer very excited and probably won't purchase this.

Online activation and unlimited installs is fair, but not SecuRom on top of it.

RE: And yet
By MikeMurphy on 12/1/2008 6:28:08 PM , Rating: 2
Just to clarify my comment its the idea of protecting the disc itself is nothing other than an 'old-school' approach to DRM.

I bet 99% of the pirating out there comes from torrents, not copies of legitimate discs. As you will never create perfect DRM discs in the near future, on-disc DRM is only mildly effective.


RE: And yet
By Alpha4 on 12/2/2008 4:26:45 PM , Rating: 2
Now... we MAYBE able to SUE the game companies if you BUY the game, open the package, don't AGREE to the EULA and can't get your money back.
Ack! My sentiments exactly.

I love you Belard.

RE: And yet
By Belard on 12/1/2008 4:21:38 PM , Rating: 3
And how are their sales? I bet just as high without the DRM crud included.... and besides, these companies have to pay SecureROM or other bottom-feeder companies $$$ to put this crap in the game.

And then they bitch about making money in the PC market?

RE: And yet
By slickr on 12/1/2008 9:10:32 AM , Rating: 2
Bad move, they should just fix the price they are selling the game in each country individually.
Lesser economy people can't afford $50 to buy a single game.
And what about those people who want to buy several games?
They need at least $300 for 6 games. Considering they are making the campaigns last only 10 or less hours I don't see how its worth it. And the multiplayer is nowhere near as valuable in 90% of the games.

So instead of punishing people they should reward people for buying the game with better game overall but also fixed price points in various countries.
Don't expect Brazil, Estonia, Romania, Russia, portugal, slovakia, etc, etc... people to be able to pay $50.

RE: And yet
By Hoser McMoose on 12/1/2008 8:19:19 PM , Rating: 2
Bad move, they should just fix the price they are selling the game in each country individually.

The problem with that is that it's difficult to restrict international trade in a global economy. If a game costs $20 in Estonia but $50 a couple hours away in Germany then some enterprising individual is just going to buy up a bunch of games in Estonia and sell them in Germany for $30 as an "Estonian import".

So long as all tax and duty laws are followed and the game is legal to sell in both Estonia and Germany there is virtually no legal recourse for a software developer to stop such a thing. For such an easily transported product as a video game (or CD, DVD, whatever) the price differential doesn't need to be very much before this practise becomes practical.

RE: And yet
By omnicronx on 12/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: And yet
By Bateluer on 12/1/2008 10:52:34 AM , Rating: 5
Funny, Stardock's titles outsold Crysis in less them while costing less to make and including no DRM.

Crysis sold poorly out the gate because they told everyone they'd need dual 8800GTX Ultra to run it playable.

RE: And yet
By omnicronx on 12/1/2008 11:43:37 AM , Rating: 2
Funny, Stardock's titles outsold Crysis in less them while costing less to make and including no DRM.
You still can't discount the ratio in which it was pirated, at well over 33%. Also as I've already said, two SecureRom games lead November in sales. If DRM is an utter and complete failure, then why are two games that employ the most hated DRM scheme selling so well?

RE: And yet
By rohith10 on 12/1/2008 1:17:21 PM , Rating: 3
The games are leading in sales because people think the titles are solid enough to put their money on.

I get the feeling that you're confused. Nobody here said that DRM is an utter failure because everybody is pirating DRM'd games. Rather, the point being raised is that DRM is a failure because fully functional pirated copies of DRM'd titles are available through BitTorrent and they are as hassle-free to install and game as they were some 7 years ago. Hence, DRM basically doesn't do any better than a simple CD check, which were far less intrusive.

RE: And yet
By someguy123 on 12/1/2008 6:08:08 PM , Rating: 2
maybe because they are good games that were hyped to hell and back?

the last person talking about stardock is a perfect example of great sales even without DRM. sins was good, so people bought it, simple as that. if you look at fallout 3, spore and mass effect i guarantee you'll find probably the same amount of pirates as sins of the solar empire even with DRM.

RE: And yet
By Belard on 12/1/2008 4:37:59 PM , Rating: 2
Love how part of your response was ignored.

When Crysis came out, the ONLY card on the market that could play it was the 8800GTs/GTX cards which were $400~$650. The ATI 38x0 and lower cost 8800GT cards were not on the market yet.

I still say one of the big factors that hurt most gaming sales is World of Warcraft and others like it. 10+ million players?! Okay, the PC gaming market actually large... but the people who PLAY WOW will only PLAY that game. They spend hours or days at a time building up characters, etc etc. They don't have time to play of anything else.

You don't have people DYING (or close to it) by playing Doom3, UT3/2004 because you can walk away, come back later.

RE: And yet
By Alpha4 on 12/2/2008 4:48:40 PM , Rating: 2
I think you raise an excellent point Belard. A lot of focus does seem to be placed on WoW for PC gaming.

I also feel that Blizzard is in the wrong for deterring, or at least not encouraging players to take breaks by rewarding those who quest for hours on end. I mean, some of the raids apparently take over an hour to complete. I understand that users should ultimately take responsibility, but does that mean crack dealing should not be a considered a crime?

Anyway, personal feelings about WoW aside, would you say that focus is a bad thing?

The way I see it, there are two types of games: Content based games and, I suppose, replayable games.

I choose to lump titles such as Bioshock & Crysis into the first category as they are media rich games driven by art and story delivery. Typically titles like these are meant to be played through once.

In the latter category you'll find games like Counter-Strike, World of Warcraft and various Sports titles.

From what I have read, many people believe that these content based titles are suffering due to their more piratable nature as single player titles. They can be hacked to prevent online key validation and still provide the full experience, whereas multiplayer titles benefit from having their servers force all connecting clients to verify their keys with a central database...

I think that is only a small part of why the PC gaming industry is "dying". Seeing what does succeed, I'm convinced that a majority of PC gamers are actually satisfied with what they have already. The millions of Counter-Strike and Starcraft players have boiled the games down to a sport, and when it becomes a sport, why does it need to improve? Why do they need to purchase another game, period? You don't see the sports industry introducing an update to Football every 18 months, but people still love it.

My theory can also account for why we've only seen two iterations of Counter Strike and only one iteration of Starcraft in over 10 years. We should just accept that maybe we don't need an actual "gaming" industry and just embrace it as cyber-athleticism or something.

RE: And yet
By Mitch101 on 12/1/2008 10:54:25 AM , Rating: 5
Why pirates do what they do

1) No more DRM
2) Demos
3) Price
4) Quality

Maybe someone should ask Positech Games if things have changed.

RE: And yet
By Lonyo on 12/1/2008 11:34:37 AM , Rating: 2
Places seem to indicate that that's the point. It's to stop pre-release piracy. The gamign being cracked after release isn't as bad as it being cracked and available BEFORE it's even out in shops.

RE: And yet
By Hoser McMoose on 12/1/2008 7:35:39 PM , Rating: 3
Any kind of DRM doesn't actually help end users. It just makes it more of a hassle for customers who are willing to buy the game

That's one of the interesting things about this heavily restrictive DRM, the game companies have setup a system where an illegally copied version of their game is a SUPERIOR product to their own. They've turned copyright infringement into a value-added proposition where end-users get a better experience with the illegal version than the legal one.

The result is that their efforts have become counterproductive, rather than discouraging people from getting illegal copies the game producers are actually encouraging it through DRM! Why would I, as a consumer, want to spend money for a product that is worse then something available for free? If it were only the legal argument holding me back from doing so (and indeed it does for me) then there would be no need for DRM in the first place.

In any case, for me personally, since I don't steal software, I'll just vote with my wallet and not buy GTA IV. Too bad because I actually was 100% planning on getting it sometime in the new year.

RE: And yet
By Senju on 12/2/2008 11:33:57 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, Maybe this is reason why 2 games I bought did not work?
I bought both "Mass Effect" and "Fallout3". I install both games but I get an error and I never got these 2 games working on my PC. :< It just collects dust and a waste of good money. Is it because of this SecuROM 7.x encryption deal? I am *totally* againts such things.
I mean, what is the point if the user can not even play the game?

RE: And yet
By Belard on 12/3/2008 11:22:32 PM , Rating: 2
It is possible that the DRM kicked in and screwed up the game.

SecureROM ends up being another resource hogging crap program that is nothing but a LOSE LOSE situtation. The publishers pay for it, they lose sales, some won't buy their software and others get infection, crashes and can't remove the trojan-like software.

The only people it doesn't hurt is the pirates.

RE: And yet
By Screwballl on 12/1/2008 1:24:47 PM , Rating: 2
How many days this will delay the pirate version to come up in the torrent site?

The full game has been up on TPB since yesterday (23:00 GMT = 8PM EST) just waiting for a crack... currently 34K leachers (and 64 seeders)... full game torrent available before it is officially released in stores.

Oh and just to let you know, I am NOT downloading it, ?I just did a search for it and saw this. Most of my time lately has been playing Planeshift and SOSE.

Welcome to the digital revolution!

RE: And yet
By someguy123 on 12/1/2008 1:54:33 PM , Rating: 3
funny thing is GTA 4 was leaked, cracked, and available to certain groups three weeks ago, possibly even earlier to others.

DRM is not only useless, but it also seems to be driving people to leak and crack these games faster than ever before.

Red Alert 2
By TomCorelis on 12/1/2008 3:26:21 AM , Rating: 4
LOL, Red Alert 2 had this "feature" where your base automatically blew up after 5 in-game minutes if it detected you running a cracked copy...

RE: Red Alert 2
By achintya on 12/1/2008 7:06:04 AM , Rating: 2
So was the case with Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth I and II. About 3-5 minutes into the game the entire base used to just die along with the heroes so the user had no option but to either buy a legit copy or not play the game at all.

RE: Red Alert 2
By nosfe on 12/1/2008 7:40:11 AM , Rating: 5
or find a working crack, don't think that there isn't

RE: Red Alert 2
By AnnihilatorX on 12/1/2008 8:42:57 AM , Rating: 2
I have yet to seen a game where the player is forced to play a pirate faction if the game is deemed a pirate copy.

RE: Red Alert 2
By phu5ion on 12/1/2008 5:31:47 PM , Rating: 2
Now that would be awesome in GTAIV.

"Nikko me matey! Let's going to ye olde stripclub for mead and wenches! YAR!"

RE: Red Alert 2
By Hoser McMoose on 12/1/2008 8:23:47 PM , Rating: 2
That would just encourage me to get the illegal copy of the game, even if I already owned the original!

RE: Red Alert 2
By BikeDude on 12/2/2008 4:39:03 AM , Rating: 2
Back in the day, I bought Settlers 3.

The game was hard. Extremely hard. Because I could not get the weapons production started. I looked around the forums, and eventually someone pointed out that you would not be able to produce iron in case the copyprotection scheme was triggered.

I do not remember what caused it. I think it was incompatibility with Windows NT4, Windows 2000 or my CD-ROM player (Plextor SCSI), but anyway... I was unable to play the game I had purchased. :(

Eventually I had no choice but return it. I could have downloaded a crack, but I was so insulted I simply told them where they could stick it.

What a waste of time.

Yes, "comical easter eggs". Haha. Very funny. Rockstar are soooo clever.

Well, they are so clever that they do not need any of my money then. May they all burn in hell. Every one of them.

Nothing new here. Same as Bioshock.....
By kilkennycat on 12/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Nothing new here. Same as Bioshock.....
By chick0n on 12/1/08, Rating: -1
By VaultDweller on 12/1/2008 8:14:50 AM , Rating: 4
People worried about SecuRom are the ones that bootleg every single game they can find and afraid that FBI might knock their doors.

Nope. People that download every single game they can find don't care about or notice SecuROM, because it's been removed from the game for them.

By nosfe on 12/1/2008 4:55:48 AM , Rating: 1
pirates don't bitch about copy protection because they don't have to deal with it and so far securom has proven to be easy/fast to crack so they can get it as fast as any legit user so who is this crap hurting? those that bought the game or those that stole it?

RE: Nothing new here. Same as Bioshock.....
By luseferous on 12/1/2008 11:01:52 AM , Rating: 2
Your statement about Bioshock is just plain wrong.

The game shipped with 2 non-revocable activations on a per user account basis (even more draconian than a per pc basis)

It was only after a ton of bad press and bitching on their forums that they upped the activations and finally after many months produced a limited activation recovery tool. That incidentally did not work in many situations.

As for GTA4 even though I don't like securom and do consider it malware, it is a large step in the right direction to ditch the limited activations.

By luseferous on 12/1/2008 11:14:35 AM , Rating: 3

I know Securom is removable, I have done it.But try and get Sony or the company producing game x to tell you how to do it.

I did an experiment and asked the Sony offshoot who produce securom how to completely remove the product. I got the boiler plate reply showing a partial removal and the disclaimer about other games being potentially damaged.

After replying and explaining that this was not a problem they flatly refused any further instructions and stopped replying to any emails.

And the ugly
By AnnihilatorX on 12/1/2008 3:21:38 AM , Rating: 2
They will probably blame the rise in piracy rate when GTA IV achieves less than expected sales in PC, when in fact the reasons include most importantly the economic recession and a DRM incursion

RE: And the ugly
By omnicronx on 12/1/2008 10:22:27 AM , Rating: 4
and a DRM incursion
Damn those top 2 sellings games (as per November NDP results) both using SecureRom 7 are really feeling the heat...

If GTA flops its because it will be because its a bad port (as usual on the PC) not because of bad economic conditions and DRM.

RE: And the ugly
By JKflipflop98 on 12/1/2008 12:42:54 PM , Rating: 2
It's going to flop because the game sucks. Easy enough.

Two things.
By Clauzii on 12/1/2008 12:32:24 AM , Rating: 3
Remove the 'disc needed in drive to play' thing.
And please uninstall the DRM if I uninstall the game.

RE: Two things.
By HaZaRd2K6 on 12/1/2008 1:06:18 AM , Rating: 1
Remove the 'disc needed in drive to play' thing.

I actually don't mind that so much. Just leave it at that, though. Forget this phone-home activation crap. If I've got a legitimate disc, what more is there to know?

And please uninstall the DRM if I uninstall the game.

Yeah. Remember Sony's rootkit fiasco from a few years back? It'd be nice, but it doesn't work that way in the wild.

By lemonadesoda on 12/1/2008 5:39:43 PM , Rating: 2
If 33% of game installs are pirate copies, would making the game uncopyable/unhackable increase sales by 33%? NO. What is the real figure? Not sure. But it's the same argument as MP3 and DVD copying. People do it because they can. But if they can't they wouldn't buy "the same volume" of material they copied. Yes, they would buy more. But nowhere near. So what is the true revenue loss? Yes, there is revenue loss, but nowhere near what the media-spin suggests, ie. it is not full $ for every copy anywhere.

Me? I've got loads of dosh. All I want is value for money AND no malware, no spyware, no uninstallable services, nothing that reduces performance, or damages or renders hardware unstable. (e.g. CD burners, Yes, I had a nightmare creating ligitmate CDs after some secure rom was interfering with the CD burner). I've got full lockdown firewall/antivirus/malware control. NO, I dont want to make exceptions to games that have DRM and goodness knows what else. NO I dont want google chrome talking back to the google servers.

Money isnt the problem. Quality is. But also, wasted time. I do not want to have to spend a lot of time "clearing up" the remains of DRM intrusion.

If GTA4 was DRM free, I would go buy it on launch. But it isnt. I will therefore wait until a DRM crack is out. But if the retail contains the DRM malware, i am forced to use the DRM free pirate just to avoid software being installed on my machine that I do not want on it.

So in my case, DRM makes me hunt down a cracked copy, whereas with DRM free I would happily have bought it.

Same goes for "Must have CD1 installed in the drive". Do I really want to have to keep swapping CDs for every install I have on my PC? No. That's why my legit game copies have the NoCD cracks applied.

Again. I wish the CD/DVD installs were just clean and simple and no time wasted and no DRM/malware.

Yes, I want to multiple install it on all my PCs in my SOHO. In a multiple PC family, expect people to install it so anyone can use it. Just like buying a book or music. Anyone in my family can read or listen to the copy we purchased.

RE: Fallacy
By BikeDude on 12/2/2008 4:47:59 AM , Rating: 2
Same goes for "Must have CD1 installed in the drive". Do I really want to have to keep swapping CDs for every install I have on my PC? No. That's why my legit game copies have the NoCD cracks applied.

I hear you. I even have some originals that are still shrink wrapped. Too much of a hassle to even install the things. :( (I kid you not)

In addition, my laptop is quite capable of playing games, but I do not, and I can not, haul around a bunch of CDs just in order to get passed the protection schemes. (Same goes for movie DVDs...)

Someone needs to get their head out of their ass and realise how modern PCs and entertainment systems work. There is a huge market out here for DRM-free content.

By mfed3 on 12/1/2008 6:36:22 PM , Rating: 2
ugh f*ck you take 2 now im pirating the game for this bullsh*t you just pulled. i will NOT support this behavior, no matter how good the game is.

By darklight0tr on 12/2/2008 9:14:07 AM , Rating: 2
Great...reinforce their point by doing the very thing that they are trying to prevent with DRM. How about not purchasing the game as well as not pirating it?

If you pirate the game you'll just push them further towards DRM, not away from it.

whats the point?
By LumbergTech on 12/1/2008 1:27:20 AM , Rating: 3
rockstar, wahts the point? seems more like a symbolic move..every game is cracked and played for free by those who want to..

i respect your right to attempt to protect your property, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are doing anything but creating potential inconveniences for are also increasing the cost of your project by being in denial about the fact that you cannot stop them from pirating it

Isn't it ironic?
By angryandroid on 12/1/2008 5:10:59 AM , Rating: 2
A series where you have to be evil to win, take cars, kill people, mug grannies on the street corner - and they have the cheek to get upity about piracy. I know, other than it being ironic in an amusing way, it's perhaps not such a valid point - still.

I bought Bioshock and hated the DRM. I didn't buy Spore or Mass Effect because of the DRM. I still enjoyed playing them though. Any game that Stardock release I buy.

I refuse to have Windows Games, Securom and other rubbish forcibly installed on my system to play a piece of software. So the war continues between pirates and game companies with the pirates humiliating the game companies time and time again. In fact, it is less like a war and more like a mugging. Get it Rockstar, a mugging, how do you like the irony now?

By Bateluer on 12/1/2008 8:00:37 AM , Rating: 2
So the publishers include increasingly restrictive root kits into the products, and people continue to buy them. What sound does a sheep make again?

The solution is very simple, stop buying titles that include these root kits.

By VaultDweller on 12/1/2008 8:01:47 AM , Rating: 2
DRM is the umbrella under which industry efforts to stop piracy via software protections fail .

That's how I read that line at first. It's true either way.

By Dreifort on 12/1/2008 9:36:34 AM , Rating: 2
Irony! ...... at it's best.

Let's teach kids that breaking the law is fun! And then when they try to break it - let's slam the wrath of the law down on them!


Iron 1
Software Co. -2

By darklight0tr on 12/1/2008 10:07:51 AM , Rating: 2
I am an avid PC gamer, and I'm tired of this DRM beatdown on PC users by these companies. Its not as if consoles are piracy free.

With consoles becoming more like PCs with each release, piracy will continue to rise on those platforms. Console gamers will eventually join PC users in our pain when they are forced to start activating their games over the Internet and deal with DRM issues.

DRM only affects legitimate users who purchased the game. Pirates don't care because they don't have to deal with it! What is the point to DRM when it only punishes legit purchases?

I commend those of you who boycott companies that use DRM, but I feel it is a futile move. More and more companies continue to adopt aggressive DRM, and eventually you will either have to deal with it or you won't be playing games anymore. I really hope that doesn't happen but it looks to be unavoidable at this point.

By SlyNine on 12/1/2008 10:21:22 AM , Rating: 2
I wont download a game because of the viruses, Like the ones that phone home and change how the system works limiting certian drivers from installing.

Yea, those ones, just like you find on the actual games anymore.

I think I'm safer DLing the game off a torrent. Right now I feel like I should buy the game and go torrent it so it doesnt screw up virtual drives. I've never really fiddled around with Torrents before but right now im tempted.

In other words
By nismotigerwvu on 12/1/2008 11:57:47 AM , Rating: 2
Rockstar made enough cash on the console versions that they don't mind flushing some down the drains.
I'm not talking about the rather outspoken minority that refuses to buy games infected with DRM (I'm a member of that group).
I'm talking about the fact that the rights to use SecureRom and other malware isn't free.
You don't have to take any economics classes to see the that loses ($$$) certainly aren't outweighed by the gains(perhaps the image that they care about piracy).
Enjoy the free (negative) press.

By mattclary on 12/1/2008 12:51:59 PM , Rating: 2
DRM is the umbrella under which industry efforts to stop piracy via software protections fail .

There, fixed that for you.

By HostileEffect on 12/1/2008 1:56:12 PM , Rating: 2
*NOLF voice*

You just lost a customer!

In't it ironic that...
By Beavermatic on 12/1/2008 2:14:33 PM , Rating: 2
... a game about sex, drugs, money, murder, pilfering and armed robbery is being released under the fears of piracy by its developers and publisher?

I mean you hear the words " Grand 'THEFT' Auto", and then you hear "DRM Anti-piracy measures"..... i mean, lol... seriously?

Isn't this what we call "the pot calling the kettle black"?

By Belard on 12/1/2008 4:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
See what happens when PEOPLE don't make a point about these crappy SecureROM rootkits?

EA is making all their games SecureROM - but many people still buy their games... By doing this, people validate these companies to violate their computers.

Those who get the SecureROM infections should see about a class-action lawsuit... but thats tricky since IF you agreed to the EULA of the game to allow the game company to do what they want.

So the only way to make companies STOP putting this stupid useless software on the games WE WANT TO BUY, is to NOT BUY THE GAMES and let them know it.

I bought UT3, it has a Disc code key. I don't even need to put the disc in the drive to play which is nice. Too bad the game isn't as good as it SHOULD be. But I bought it. I wanted to buy BioShock, but the demo had SecureROM and caused me problems, besides kicking in and NOT allowing the demo to even WORK...! no BioShock for my computer.

Nevermind the simple FACT that cracked / SecurelessROM versions of Bioshock were on the internet before the game came out.

So these companies continue to ONLY punish their own customers?

Call me crazy (please dont), but could this be some evil plan to kill PC gaming? The SecureROM games are usually available for PS3/360 systems... A crappy Console game will outsell most AAA title game titles on the PC.

So these companies just want to PRETEND their supporting the PC industry? Shouldn't Nvidia/ATI see this as a THREAT to their business? Afterall, *IF* I have to buy a Playstation3 to play games in Low Res (Not in true 1920x1200 res), why do I or anyone else need to invest in a $150~300 gaming card?

Then why do we need Windows? Microsoft should REALLY think about that really hard. With a browser and basic productivity tools that works on ANY computer - then Linux or MacOS will work fine for most of us if we DON'T play games on our computers. Bet Mac sales would be higher if they had the games and of course more hardware support for videocards.

So what do we do in the end? Either we pony up $300~400 for a new console (whose graphics power is 2years old) to play GTA IV (And software company still gets our money) or we buy the game and live with SecureROM messing up our systerms OR we pirate the game anyway and the developer doesn't make a profit because some bean-counter thinks that installing questionable and in most other cases ILLEGAL software on people's computers will make a difference.

GT-IV : You are offically off my buying list.

Typo in the article...
By DanoruX on 12/2/2008 8:49:41 AM , Rating: 2
DRM is the umbrella under which industry efforts to stop piracy via software protections fall.

Should read as:

DRM is the umbrella under which industry efforts to stop piracy via software protections fail .

SecuROm V. 7.xx and games
By Senju on 12/3/2008 3:17:38 AM , Rating: 1
If the game contains a version of SecuROM v7.36, it will check for the disc but also has an invasive kernel-mode driver which checks for commonly used CD/DVD writing software on the system; if detected, the installation is aborted. The version sold on Steam does not have this restriction.

In a nut shell, if you have any writing software, your game will not work. so what do you do?
Buy a extra HDD specific for gaming only. No other crap on it. Just the OS and games.
It does not solve the DRM shit but at least you may be able to play your games.

I was always a legal man..
By on 12/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: I was always a legal man..
By Byte on 12/1/2008 6:55:23 AM , Rating: 1
Like with most media, the "developers" aren't really the ones that will be making the money. It all goes to the upper companies/distributors ect. Developers usually get salary jobs, and is a place that is getting harder to actually be create. There are a few small time developers who innovate, usually offer stuff for donationware, but they generally never get the buzz mainstream gets. Just like the music industry, where the label eats up 60%, itunes eat up 30%, artist are left with a measly 10%, we need something new to happen.

RE: I was always a legal man..
By JKflipflop98 on 12/1/2008 12:46:08 PM , Rating: 2
We are trying new things, it's just that the old guys that got rich and fat off the old way don't want it to end. So they use money and the courtroom as a weapon.

"Intel is investing heavily (think gazillions of dollars and bazillions of engineering man hours) in resources to create an Intel host controllers spec in order to speed time to market of the USB 3.0 technology." -- Intel blogger Nick Knupffer
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