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Print 92 comment(s) - last by Manch.. on Jan 26 at 7:08 AM

HP is actively promoting Windows 7 pre-installations on new computers along with a $150 discount

To say that Windows 8 has been controversial is putting it lightly. Many long-time Windows customers have been left frustrated by Microsoft’s touch-centric operating system, and efforts to correct mistakes with Windows 8.1 have only slightly reduced the number of pitchforks raised in protest.
 
Well, Hewlett-Packard has apparently heard the cries of its customers and is responding appropriately. Neowin notes that HP is actively promoting (unlike its competitors) computers pre-installed with Windows 7 as being “back by popular demand.”

 
HP is even being generous by giving those that choose Windows 7 instead of Windows 8 a $150 discount off their purchases.
 
The follow-up to Windows 8.x is scheduled to be released in April 2015.

Sources: Neowin, HP



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Win8 not for non-touch screen
By XZerg on 1/20/2014 10:24:52 AM , Rating: 3
There are just too many built-in premonition that the computer has touch capacity and works like so. so the users who do not have touch screen will have plenty of issues getting used to it and will have to mod/hack it left right and center to behave accordingly.

A simple pet peeve - the scrolling is backwards compared to a mouse wheel when you use the trackpad to behave like a touch screen scrolling. Another one is that you cannot disable Aero transparency feature and so it is next to impossible to determine active window looking at taskbar or screen.

Just great, Microsoft, NOT! Why do you have to hide away simple features that just worked and not provide options to revert to it?




RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By Argon18 on 1/20/14, Rating: -1
RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By Nutzo on 1/20/2014 12:03:53 PM , Rating: 5
Yet Windows 8, with all it's faults, still has a larger installed base than all version of OSX - Combined !


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By Rukkian on 1/20/2014 12:09:27 PM , Rating: 3
You may be perfectly happy with Linux, but there are plenty of "tech-savey" people that have not switched to Linux. You may wish that was the case, but the numbers just don't show it. I do not consider myself a "wintard", but at my work (along with probably 99.9% of other companies) Windows (with some mac) are the norm for users, and those of us in support need to be able to know what is going on at work. I have never had a reason to use Linux, and don't forsee it in near future. There is too much that still doesn't run in Linux, and if you still need to have a windows box to play games, and other apps, whats the point?


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By Argon18 on 1/20/14, Rating: -1
By Disorganise on 1/20/2014 5:25:31 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
On which planet is Windows "the norm"?

the one the rest of us live on.

quote:
Too much software that doesn't run on it, too much it cannot do, and it takes an entire IT department of geeks to keep it healthy and running.


Right. evidently the atmosphere on your planet has a high percentage of hallucinogenic substances. Enjoy :)


By ClownPuncher on 1/20/2014 5:45:18 PM , Rating: 3
Is there a "dumbass" switch, so we can turn this off?


By Reclaimer77 on 1/20/2014 5:51:01 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Text Perhaps in the paper-pusher business desktop world. But that's a very dull world, one I want no part of.


No Argon, we do not want fries with that.


By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 5:52:48 PM , Rating: 2
"It isn't worth the hassle to be burdened by so many limitations and restrictions. Other than MS Office and video games, what's the point?"

Absolutely clueless. If Windows disappeared suddenly, you wouldn't have a job because the people that pay you wouldn't have a job, because the people that pay them wouldnt have a job. It wouldn't matter if you did have a job or money, because there would be no food in the grocery stores. It would be total anarchy.

The proper response would be "Thank you MS" :P


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By Motoman on 1/20/2014 7:15:43 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
On which planet is Windows "the norm"?


The real planet. Not the fairy-tale you've manufactured in your head. In your magic-happy-land maybe Linux is all there is...in reality, Windows is, what, 94% of the market? Apple accounts for like 5%. Leaving 1% for Linux, Amiga, BeOS, DOS and SkyOS.

quote:
Expand your horizons and realize that Windows is not the market leader in the vast majority of computing markets.


Orly? [citation needed]

quote:
They lead in business desktops and gamer peecee's and that's it.


And home PC use. All laptops. And servers. ATMs and kiosks. In fact, other than non-Wintel platforms like ARM, AS/400s and traditional *nix servers, Windows owns all markets. And volume-wise, those other markets don't even compare to the rest of everything else that is owned by Windows.

quote:
Too much software that doesn't run on it


lolwut? I'm going to guess that something like 95% or more of all software ever written runs on Windows.

quote:
too much it cannot do


...like? Name an application - someplace Windows is doing that. Probably pretty close to everyplace...Windows is doing that.

quote:
and it takes an entire IT department of geeks to keep it healthy and running.


Right, because there's no IT staff needed to support the Unix servers and mainframes. Also...if you unleashed the mouth-breathing whoreds of the mass-market onto Linux machines instead of Windows, I can guarantee you they'd GPF those bad boys just as fast, if not faster, than their Windows machines.

quote:
It isn't worth the hassle to be burdened by so many limitations and restrictions.


...I'm amazed that you're able to bear the burden of dealing with the limitations and restrictions of having to live within some horrifically malformed fantasy world borne of your own delusions.


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By themaster08 on 1/20/2014 1:26:48 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Now that's pathetic.
I'll tell you what's pathetic. Your constant need to reassure yourself by criticising Microsoft, Windows, and its users.

The world doesn't work in the deluded way you wish, and billions of people use Microsoft's, and Apple's products every day. Those people live in the real world. Perhaps it's time you let go of your angst, stop being so bitter, and join us back on planet Earth.


By AstroGuardian on 1/23/2014 4:45:38 AM , Rating: 2
That's right. Totally agreed.

And i cant seem to understand, are some people so much retarded or is it just trolling against Microsoft?
If you dont like the Metro, just don't phucking use it. If you dont like Metro apps just use their desktop versions. Just install the Classic Windows 7 shell, disable Metro start screen and have a better computing experience with Windows 8 than Windows 7 ffs.

Is it that hard to understand?


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 2:00:03 PM , Rating: 2
Yes Argon, I am sure it proves your typical anti MS rant when people choose Microsoft Windows 7 over Microsoft Windows 8.

Wait... n/m


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By Argon18 on 1/20/14, Rating: -1
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 5:44:25 PM , Rating: 2
No-one like hte UI on 8 for a desktop, but calling it all "crap software" is just braindead. No-one has ever done what MS has done, no-one else has even had the balls to try.

The whole world runs off MS software including most the process involved with every product you buy from tech to plumbing to groceries to air conditioning. Sure it can be frustrating sometimes, but your silly little alternatives concentrate on one tiny piece, where MS runs the world. You are totally clueless.


By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 5:44:28 PM , Rating: 2
No-one like hte UI on 8 for a desktop, but calling it all "crap software" is just braindead. No-one has ever done what MS has done, no-one else has even had the balls to try.

The whole world runs off MS software including most the process involved with every product you buy from tech to plumbing to groceries to air conditioning. Sure it can be frustrating sometimes, but your silly little alternatives concentrate on one tiny piece, where MS runs the world. You are totally clueless.


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By croc on 1/20/2014 10:32:09 PM , Rating: 2
Not that you will ever answer, but just for the sake of asking... What OS do you prefer?


RE: Win8 not for non-touch screen
By ven1ger on 1/22/2014 1:37:32 PM , Rating: 2
Argon18 is a Linux user, though I prefer and many other Linux users probably prefer that he shuts up.

He is just a rabid anti-MS nutjob. Most Linux users, use other OSes and understand that each has it pros and cons, Argon tends to fail to see that when it comes to anything related to MS.


About time
By zlandar on 1/20/2014 9:49:40 AM , Rating: 5
Only regret is not buying more Win 7 multiuser licenses back in the day. MS should just admit Win 8 is a failure and start selling discounted Win 7 licenses again.




RE: About time
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 10:00:44 AM , Rating: 3
Any desktop or laptop sold in the enterprise sector comes with Win7, most pre-installed, a few have Win7 downgrade licenses. Why? Same as above, 8 sucks rocks.


RE: About time
By Motoman on 1/20/2014 11:39:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
MS should just admit Win 8 is a failure...


They did.

quote:
...and start selling discounted Win 7 licenses again.


Well, it probably would have been nice if they'd just sold Win7 alongside Win8 this whole time (and you'd have seen 90+% of all sales go to Win7)...but it sounds like 8.2 might finally be a valid OS out of the box, if it well and truly has an actual start menu and desktop, and Metro can be avoided completely.

Also sounds like Win9 will be the same way. They'll be find with Windows Whatever so long as it has a valid user interface...and the only valid user interface (for actual computers at least...not tablets and phones necessarily) is a true start menu and desktop.

Note that pretty much everything that gets done with Metro tiles really could have been done as desktop widgets...ever since Vista.


RE: About time
By Mint on 1/20/14, Rating: 0
RE: About time
By Reclaimer77 on 1/20/2014 12:41:19 PM , Rating: 3
Uh learn to alt+tab? I seriously do not agree that Windows 7 had any issues accessing the desktop.

Windows 7 is THE most efficient desktop UI. I don't know why you Windows 8 apologists are still trying to make these pathetic comparisons. Of all the things you could argue the merits of Windows 8 on, usability and UI design is the WORST battle you could pick. You can't win on that front.

quote:
After launching from the desktop, you have to click all your other windows again from the taskbar


/facepalm

No...just no.


RE: About time
By Mint on 1/22/2014 12:02:45 PM , Rating: 2
How does alt+tab make anything easier? I still have to hit it many times to restore my windows after launching something from the desktop.

Answer this: If I have five windows arranged on my screen(s), and after clicking "show desktop" I run something (e.g. open a text file), then what's the minimum amount of clicking or key presses I need to see those original five windows again?

I'd be happy if you prove me wrong by teaching me a shortcut I'm unaware of.


RE: About time
By Motoman on 1/22/2014 3:20:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Answer this: If I have five windows arranged on my screen(s), and after clicking "show desktop" I run something (e.g. open a text file), then what's the minimum amount of clicking or key presses I need to see those original five windows again?


One. In Win7, click the Show Desktop thing again.

quote:
I'd be happy if you prove me wrong by teaching me a shortcut I'm unaware of.


There...you're wrong. Happy now?


RE: About time
By The Von Matrices on 1/23/2014 12:17:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
One. In Win7, click the Show Desktop thing again.


Nope, all that does is minimize the program you just opened.

There is no shortcut in Windows to go back to a previous arrangement of windows once you show desktop and open a new one. The start screen allows you to not have to use the "show desktop" button, avoiding this scenario altogether.


RE: About time
By Mint on 1/25/2014 7:57:12 AM , Rating: 2
Thank you. You'd think he's spend one second to test his solution before wasting his time composing a reply full of nonsense.


RE: About time
By Motoman on 1/20/2014 2:54:54 PM , Rating: 2
...

Well, I'll give you this. That was certainly original. Other than that...you're a loon.


RE: About time
By Mint on 1/22/2014 12:22:31 PM , Rating: 2
Prove me wrong, smartass.

You're the one claiming the win8 start page is no better than the win7 desktop with gadgets. Tell me the most efficient procedure for restoring, say, five windows after launching something from the Win7 desktop.

I live by facts and objectivity. Win8 indisputably saves clicks when launching stuff, whether comparing to Win7's desktop or start menu.

Maybe you hate fullscreen, or mouse movement (lol), or colors, or whatever, and that's fine. But I don't, and therefore fewer clicks and a desktop-equivalent that doesn't require minimizing/restoring windows makes me more productive.


RE: About time
By Neodude007 on 1/23/2014 9:23:18 PM , Rating: 2
How about not launching a program from the desktop....
I find it rather fast on both Win7 and 8 to tap Start on my keyboard, type the first 4 letters of the program and hit enter.
That typically happens in 1 second for me. Why minimize and click around??


RE: About time
By Mint on 1/25/2014 8:06:49 AM , Rating: 2
You're proving my point exactly. And its not just programs, but files also (docs, spreadsheets, images, etc).

I don't use the desktop in windows 7 except sometimes as a scratch folder. It's useless as a GUI element. Sometimes I have 10 windows on the screen from a lengthy MATLAB calculation.


Curious about the sales
By Da W on 1/20/2014 10:04:01 AM , Rating: 1
We'll in a couple of months if HP sells more PC because of Windows 7, of the decline in PC is REALLY a decline and it's not Windows 8's fault.

Let the market speak.




RE: Curious about the sales
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 10:25:15 AM , Rating: 2
That wont make a difference. HP sucks and their products suck and every PC marketed to enterprise already comes with Win7 installed or a Win7 downgrade license, so it wont really change anything.

The only thing that has changed here is the HP consumer products and that isn't a big market for them I am guessing. This is more of a statement than a game changer. FWIW I totally agree with the statement.


RE: Curious about the sales
By Captain Awesome on 1/20/2014 12:44:59 PM , Rating: 2
What do you mean HP sucks? I have had many HP and Compaq laptops, and I've always had a good 12 months before every imaginable part breaks on it.


RE: Curious about the sales
By DiscoWade on 1/20/2014 10:55:12 AM , Rating: 3
Lenovo has been pushing Windows 7 all along. (As an added bonus, Lenovo computers are made in the US still.) Surprise, surprise, Lenovo is now the #1 PC maker in the world. I think HP saw Lenovo was still doing well selling computers and realized they should copy success.

But, I want to see Windows 7 computers for sale in retail stores. When I can walk into Staples and buy a Windows 7 computer then I will be happy.


RE: Curious about the sales
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 11:15:01 AM , Rating: 2
"Lenovo has been pushing Windows 7 all along. (As an added bonus, Lenovo computers are made in the US still.) Surprise, surprise, Lenovo is now the #1 PC maker in the world. I think HP saw Lenovo was still doing well selling computers and realized they should copy success."

All good points +1

My ideal system right now is a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro. Freegin amazing. Slim, fast, great battery life, 3200x1800 13 inch screen, 180 degree KB so it can be a laptop, a tablet and can act as a built in mount A frame style. All that and less than $1000.


RE: Curious about the sales
By inighthawki on 1/20/2014 11:39:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
My ideal system right now is a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro. Freegin amazing. Slim, fast, great battery life, 3200x1800 13 inch screen, 180 degree KB so it can be a laptop, a tablet and can act as a built in mount A frame style. All that and less than $1000.

I got one a few months back when they were released and I've been very pleased so far. It's a great device, I highly recommend it.


Utter Rubbish
By damianrobertjones on 1/20/2014 12:12:26 PM , Rating: 2
Basically, in a meeting for flagging sales, someone had the bright idea to push Windows 7, to drop the price, in an effort to increase sales and word of mouth.

It's working as this article will now spread across the web.

Marketing sucks.




RE: Utter Rubbish
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 12:55:53 PM , Rating: 2
Marketing may suck, but that isn't the issue here... The issue here is that Windows 8 sucks. If this article spreads, it is because millions and millions of people agree with its sentiment.


RE: Utter Rubbish
By damianrobertjones on 1/21/2014 7:12:43 AM , Rating: 2
Those millions and millions haven't even used it.


RE: Utter Rubbish
By retrospooty on 1/21/2014 8:05:03 AM , Rating: 3
You are looking at a comment section RIGHT NOW where many people are stating they have used it and dont like it. Myself included. And this is a tech forum, not the general populus. We like to try new OS's and new toys.

You being in denial about the issue is exactly what MS had been doing for the past almost 2 years. Even they woke up, you should too.


Windows 8
By lagomorpha on 1/20/2014 11:59:05 AM , Rating: 3
Windows 8 is nice technically but has two fatal flaws:

1: Metro and desktop act like two completely nearly different operating system and instead of being able to switch between them easily it feels as though you're constantly being pushed back into Metro even if desktop would work a lot better for what you're doing. Sometimes I keep a desktop application running just so I can use "swipe from left" to easily get back into desktop mode.

2: Installing Metro apps requires having a Microsoft account. If I wanted the Android "we track everything you do" experience I would buy an Android. If I wanted a locked down walled garden I would buy from Apple. The whole reason I bought a Windows tablet was because I wanted to control what software I was running and not be forced to sign up for the OS developer's "we track you everywhere" account. I had to install the desktop version of Skype because the Metro version required turning your Skype account into a Microsoft account.




RE: Windows 8
By Mint on 1/22/2014 12:37:46 PM , Rating: 2
1. Set your Metro wallpaper to the same as your desktop (you need 8.1). It lessens the "two worlds" feel a lot, though not quite as much as actual transparency would.

2. Devs are free to make tablet apps for the classical desktop and its open market philosophy. The whole purpose of the new Win8 ecosystem is to be a controlled market with the security of a walled garden and common design.


Windows 7 SP2
By ltcommanderdata on 1/20/2014 10:26:32 AM , Rating: 3
I wonder if Microsoft released a Windows 7 SP2 if that would help stabilize Windows/PC sales until Windows 9 arrives?




Why
By flyingpants1 on 1/20/2014 3:00:45 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 has been out for over a year and you just now realised this? Why is a multi-billion dollar corporation so slow to react? These guys are such dinosaurs. There's supposed to be competition. I would put "WINDOWS 7" in big bright letters..




RE: Why
By lagomorpha on 1/20/2014 4:59:03 PM , Rating: 1
Windows Blue (8.1) = make customers blue
Windows Threshold (9) = push customers over the threshold

Once OS developers realized (1) people were tending to retain an operating system for many years and (2) that there were ways of monetizing an OS other than initial sale price, there developed means of making money in which pleasing the end user was no longer the main objective.

How much does a Windows license go for in retail? Now how much money can be gained from getting someone to sign up for a Microsoft Account and get tied up in the Microsoft/Bing/Internet Explorer/Skype/etc racket as opposed to the Google/Google+/Google Talk/Google directed ads for 10 years.

This wouldn't bother me so much if Canonical wasn't starting to do the same thing with Ubuntu Linux.


apple
By p05esto on 1/20/2014 5:56:34 PM , Rating: 3
I would switch to Apple before ever using Win8 again.... and I HATE Apple. MS needs to step up and get Win9 out NOW and throw Win8 to the dogs...what a steaming pile of unusable crap that is.




By kmmatney on 1/20/2014 5:26:51 PM , Rating: 2
If I were an OEM, I'd make my own branded start menu (or license something out) and supply it with the computer. Windows 8 is "mostly" OK with a start menu and a bypass to the desktop. HP should just provide their users with a start menu - it would be a great marketing feature.




Different goals
By Nephelai on 1/20/2014 10:10:30 PM , Rating: 2
I understand that they want a common platform to reduce cost but they don't seem to get that desktops and mobiles don't have a common purpose. Desktops are our powerhouse workstations / game stations. Mobile devices are our convince devices. Using Win 8 I feel like I'm using two interfaces with less efficiency on the one device. Metro on module devices and win 8 (win 7 style) on our desktops would of been more successful. They could of had the same guts just different UI.




Can Metro & DeskTop ever Co-exist?
By Any14Tee on 1/22/2014 8:40:02 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not a great lover of Metro but I get it why some have taken to it. I believe Win 8 is a transition to the next best thing. I think most will agree, its quite patchy not quite the Full Monty, the interface is poorly thought out. Somebody mentioned earlier, the Desktop and Metro under Win 8 operate like two separate entities and I tend to agree, though much to my annoyance the Metro tends to dominate with Desktop always sitting behind the screen.

I would have preferred a more customised approached from MS (hopefully we'll see something similar in Win 9)where the user can choose to have a Metro styled interface or traditional Desktop or combination of the two, where the user has the power to set the tone and style, one that meets their requirements and personal taste.

Hopefully MS finds the Nirvana Button in the next version instead of giving us measly Start Button in Win 8.1 when it should have been inclusive in the first place.

Anyway, Win 8.1 is OK and I'm not missing Win 7 which is a good thing I guess.




i just wanna know 1 thing
By chick0n on 1/25/2014 9:41:34 PM , Rating: 2
Who is that chick in the picture? She looks delicious.




Windows 8 is
By Perry Tanko on 1/23/2014 9:12:06 PM , Rating: 1
Junk. I used it, millions of others have used, and most agree (other than the Microsoft sheeple. who would gladly drink the Microsoft Kool-aid even if BillG said it was poisoned).
Stay class, Microsoft.




Give it a shot
By Gio6518 on 1/20/14, Rating: -1
RE: Give it a shot
By Makaveli on 1/20/2014 9:58:15 AM , Rating: 5
It great that you guys got used to it but it doesn't change that fact that its garbage.

They article would not here otherwise.


RE: Give it a shot
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 10:03:21 AM , Rating: 5
Exactly. It's fine to like it or not, from my perspective, I would guess its fairly close to 50/50... But alienating half your user base is just bad business, especially when you consider it was done 100% on purpose. The old start menu could have been left in and used for those that want it, but wass taken out on purpose to try and push MS's new agenda. BS and now they are paying for their poor choices.


RE: Give it a shot
By Da W on 1/20/2014 10:11:28 AM , Rating: 5
Windows 8 is mostly a UI problem. The underling OS is damn good, both in features missing in Windows 7 and in the new software paradigm for developper to make apps compatible in x86, ARM, desktop, Xbox, tablets or phones.

Bring back a start menu and run metro apps on the desktop in windows, integrate apps navigation on the taskbar and flush the swipe from the left thing and most people wouldn't complain anymore. I would even keep the livetiles.


RE: Give it a shot
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 10:18:05 AM , Rating: 5
"Windows 8 is mostly a UI problem. "

Yup... Its totally a UI problem, the problem is the UI is the part you interface with and if you don't like it, it makes the whole thing unlikable.


RE: Give it a shot
By compuser2010 on 1/20/2014 3:47:38 PM , Rating: 2
I hated that Microsoft only had Upgrade versions at retail. I've been using Windows since 3.1 and that's the first time they ever did that (fixed with 8.1).

When upgrading a netbook from 8 to 8.1 via internet, the netbook needs to be connected to an external monitor with greater than or equal to 1024x768 resolution.

I really don't like having to take the time to learn or do things that slow down productivity and/or don't make me money. Who does?


RE: Give it a shot
By Souka on 1/20/2014 5:39:49 PM , Rating: 2
I work in Win7 at home and work... it's great.

Used a Win8 touchscreen ultrabook... I was just amazed how often my fingers left the keyboard/trackpad and touched the screen....scrolling, hyperlinks, reply-to email buttons.

It was automatic for me... and when I returned to my regular Thinkpad laptop... I actually touched the screen a few times out of habit.

To me... that is good enginering. I adopted the hybrid touch/keyboard/trackpad interface without thinking.... and that interface still stuck with me after returning to a regular laptop.

:)

I look forward to my next laptop (or whatever it'll be called) and Win8.x Win8 without a touch interace really misses a major part of the OS build. Kinda like using Windows 7 without a mouse... you can do it, but sure aint' easy.

--> My $.02 <--

Peace and GO SEAHAWKS!!!!


RE: Give it a shot
By Strunf on 1/21/2014 8:08:17 AM , Rating: 2
I actually can't even update my netbook from windows 8 to 8.1, for some reason the store keeps freezing my netbook (even with an external screen) and without the store there's no way to update to windows 8.1, I've DL all the files but when I'm installing it I need the windows 8.1 key cause the 8.0 key doesn't work and without the store no windows 8.1 key... the whole things seems so stupid that I don't even want to spend any time with it and I'll just update to windows 8.1 when I get a proper ISO to do a clean install and be done with it.
Was is too much to ask to put windows 8.1 on the update screen like any other update?...

In the past I was seeing windows like a good alternative to more closed systems and not as techy as Linux, but the turn windows is taking makes me want to change to the Linux side specially now that its far more user friendly, if it wasn't for the games I would have changed with no regrets.


RE: Give it a shot
By Manch on 1/26/2014 7:08:01 AM , Rating: 2
I have Win 8.1 on my laptop & desktop. Not a fan of the UI so first thing i did was install classic shell. Some people like Start8 but Classic shell is free and has almost as many features. You can even turn off the annoying swipe from left and right crap. If you use any of the metro apps there is a program that lets you use them windowed as well. There's even an Aero Theme for those that liked it

This is a good starting point:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/make-windows-8-like-wind...

This largely hides the Win8 UI issues and still benefit from the under hood improvements.

I do have a Dell Venue 8 Pro as well. On it I leave the interface alone for the most part. I use the metro UI mainly on it. When I use the mirracast,and BT mouse /keyboard however, Ill go to desktop mode. With a dockable tablet the schizo err dual personality of Win 8 is useful, but it def has its annoyances.

Since I put in the time to make 8 run and look like 7 I wont go back on the machines i mentioned. My other machines though will stay Win 7 until 9 or never.


RE: Give it a shot
By drevas2528 on 1/20/2014 11:04:27 AM , Rating: 3
By all accounts, you have just described Windows 9.


RE: Give it a shot
By HoosierEngineer5 on 1/20/2014 11:41:21 AM , Rating: 2
Need to add, "and charge $50 for the upgrade" to make it Windows 9.


RE: Give it a shot
By Motoman on 1/20/2014 10:45:35 AM , Rating: 5
I'm not sure about the 50/50 - working with everything from home users to massive enterprises I've not encountered one single person in real life who hasn't expressed hatred for Metro.

But, as others have noted, it's only Metro that is hated. Everything else about 8 is fine. Once I put Pokki or Start8 or something else on their machine, they flat-out love it.

MS finally got the hint...but HP is probably going to be rolling in money by just brandishing Win7 like this. People need to remember that the *VAST* majority of users haven't got the slightest inclination to even attempt to find and install a 3rd party start menu. For well over 90% of the consumer base, Metro is unavoidable, and it is 100% of the reason why Win8 is so universally hated.


RE: Give it a shot
By retrospooty on 1/20/14, Rating: 0
RE: Give it a shot
By Mint on 1/20/14, Rating: -1
RE: Give it a shot
By Motoman on 1/20/2014 12:15:51 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If you don't know how to google "windows 8 start menu", then why do even have a desktop/notebook?


For Facebook, Gmail, and Solitaire.

The very concept of looking for, selecting, downloading and installing a 3rd party application is an abject nightmare for *vast* numbers of computer users - who view their computer with the same level of cognition as they do their TV set. If it's more involved than pushing the power button and selecting the channel they want to watch, they're not even going to try.


RE: Give it a shot
By Mint on 1/20/14, Rating: 0
RE: Give it a shot
By Motoman on 1/20/2014 2:41:58 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
A) The netbook bubble would have been mainly the cheaper Linux versions instead of Windows


Nope. Because you're a casual user, and Linux is weird and unfamiliar while Windows is all you've ever used your entire life...and is what you have to use at work anyway.

quote:
B) You're probably buying a tablet and never getting a new PC


Yes and no. Obviously lots of people are buying tablets, and PCs are going through much longer life cycles than they used to, for lack of any impetus to upgrade them. For the most part though I think most people do something on their PCs that a tablet by itself isn't going to replace...like Quicken or TurboTax for example, or even just using a word processor to type things up.

quote:
C) You don't even need to touch the start menu or start page to do that anyway


True. But to the casual user, the Metro interface is even more freaky than it is to expert users. And there's fear involved with the fact that they can no longer find all the other stuff that's on their PC...even if they almost never use it.

All in all, Metro was a solution to a problem that didn't exist. And the more casual of a user you are, the bigger the hurdle Metro presents to you.


RE: Give it a shot
By The0ne on 1/20/2014 3:07:51 PM , Rating: 2
As you stated if a person can't install an app to put the start menu back or God forbid be able to hit the Windows key or Desktop tile, then maybe a PC is a little too much for that person. This one hindrance per verses their entire viewpoint of the OS regardless of anything else in the OS.

And yea, we're not MS and we don't know or have the vision it wants to take the company towards. That vision is to have a unified UI on the PC and other devices. How that will work out is NOT only dependent on MS but hardware and software mfg's as well. The technology is there but if there are no hardware to support it and no software to use it then there's no point.

Plus, it's not so much that the UI is the problem win Windows 8.x, it's the integration of the desktop and Metro environments that is the problem.


RE: Give it a shot
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 3:28:10 PM , Rating: 2
" if a person can't install an app to put the start menu back or God forbid be able to hit the Windows key or Desktop tile, then maybe a PC is a little too much for that person."

I get the point you are going for, but you have obviously never worked in any sort of tech support capacity. I cant tell you how many people have worked on PC's in the office for 10+ years and STILL don't know what the start button is, what Internet explorer is, the difference between their PC and the server it logs into is, or the difference between "Microsoft" and the "internet" even is.

It's not about 1-2% of techies that visit sites like this, its about the masses. The new UI doesnt work well for non-touch devices and throwing it on top of the idiocy/laziness I outlined above and its just not going to happen, thus the reason enterprise stiocks with 7, and OEM's are sticking with it as well, and also the reason the start menu is coming back in the next version of Windows. It simply doesnt work well and was a horrible idea to not offer both.


RE: Give it a shot
By Disorganise on 1/20/2014 5:18:40 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
That vision is to have a unified UI on the PC and other devices.

And there in lies the root of the problem. A unified UI across PC/phone/tablet etc is ill-conceived.
No way would I want to wave my arms about all day trying to enter data into excel etc. the mouse and keyboard work just fine thank you.
Likewise, no way do I want to use a mouse and keyboard to drive my TV - the remote control works just fine thanks.
when it comes to automating, then the command line and scripting rule.

I kinda agree with the concept of a unified OS across different devices. But that does require a unified UI also.


RE: Give it a shot
By retrospooty on 1/21/2014 8:21:10 AM , Rating: 2
"I kinda agree with the concept of a unified OS across different devices. But that does require a unified UI also"

Exactly... It sounds like a good idea, but in realty a touchscreen and a KB/Mouse are fundamentally different ways of interfacing and using a touchscreen based UI on a KB/Mouse PC just sucks. Forcing it was a bad idea period.


RE: Give it a shot
By Disorganise on 1/21/2014 8:12:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I kinda agree with the concept of a unified OS across different devices. But that does require a unified UI also.

oops... that should have been "But that does NOT require a unified UI also."
Hopefully that was obvious from the opening sentence.


RE: Give it a shot
By Disorganise on 1/20/2014 5:06:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you don't know how to google "windows 8 start menu"

You've made two huge, and incorrect, assumptions:
1) the average user knows they're running windows 8 in the first place
2) they know that the name of round circle thing in the corner is called a start menu.
Even the concept of 'googling' is presumptuous considering IE defaults to Bing, and who the hell knows how to change that?
The average user has no clue about such things - only that 'this thing doesn't work properly' or 'is too hard to use' etc
Most users can't even differentiate between office and windows ffs - the upgrade to office 2010 and it's new ribbon interface generated no end of issues concerning 'the new version of windows'. your mileage may vary.


RE: Give it a shot
By GTVic on 1/20/2014 6:03:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It great that you guys got used to it but it doesn't change that fact that its garbage. They article would not here otherwise.

Blog article == proof. If this is the pinnacle of logic on this forum then we are in deep trouble.

Most tech products have strong points and weak points. An intelligent discussion related to that would be a welcome relief to the majority of these "comments".


RE: Give it a shot
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 9:59:28 AM , Rating: 5
Some people might depending on what they do. I actually had it on my main home PC for 6 months and Work laptop for 3-4 months and liked it at first, then after several months took it off of both. I found it incredibly inefficient at work and just annoying at home.


RE: Give it a shot
By hughlle on 1/20/2014 10:00:52 AM , Rating: 2
I got used to it being forced t use it for a while, as did my parents on their new ultrabook. I still went straight back to 7 when the opportunity arose, and couldn't be happier, and my father not wanting to mess around with the ultrabook simply installed one of these applications to make it look and act like 7. For us, getting used to it was rather irrelevant, we still hated it compared to 7.


RE: Give it a shot
By JumpingJack on 1/20/2014 10:04:17 AM , Rating: 5
I have a laptop with Win 8 installed and, like you, loved the laptop but hated win 8... then I used it for a week, then another week, then another week... nope still hate it.


RE: Give it a shot
By retrospooty on 1/20/2014 10:07:57 AM , Rating: 2
Yup, I actually liked it at first, the more familiar I got and the more I used it the more I hated it.

There are improvements and it is faster, but any modernd OS does the same basic stuff. The main difference is the apps (as in Mac vs Linux vs. PC) and the UI. Apps are separate thing, but the UI is the part you interface with all day every day and if its irritating, it has to go. touchscreens and kb/mouse are two totally different interfaces and require different UI's period.


RE: Give it a shot
By inighthawki on 1/20/2014 11:13:06 AM , Rating: 2
I don't really understand why they don't develop the apps in such a way that they are dual UI enabled. XAML is so easy to use and create UI, that it shouldn't be hard to have an app that consists of a single backend with two frontend UIs for the two environments they're in.

I've tried metromix from stardock before and my impression was that metro apps became infinitely more useful, but still felt awkward and out of place. The UI still did not fit the desktop environment, both in look and function.


RE: Give it a shot
By AMDftw on 1/20/2014 10:35:05 AM , Rating: 1
I would agree. I installed it on my Asus G74. It was weird and not common to use. The more I used it the better it felt. I still haven't changed my gaming desktop over yet but have been thinking about it. Some people are just lazy and only know how to b***h and complain. UI is the weakest part but you can fine tune it to suit your needs.


RE: Give it a shot
By Rukkian on 1/20/2014 12:01:32 PM , Rating: 2
I did install it on my gaming pc over 1 year ago, I still do not like the UI, even though I can get around, it is just not nearly as efficient IMO as Win7 for getting to settings, etc. I left it on there, because I need to know how to use it, if at some point I need to support it for work, or relatives, etc.

I do like the speed of it, as it seems to run better than Win7 even, and games run really well, even though the pc (other than the video card) is almost 5 years old at this point.


RE: Give it a shot
By Reclaimer77 on 1/20/2014 12:24:44 PM , Rating: 3
"We finally got used to it"

You'll forgive me if this isn't an overwhelmingly positive testimonial for the OS.

At best people are saying they can, after a while, stomach Windows 8. We didn't have to 'get used' to Windows 7 to stomach it.


RE: Give it a shot
By Mint on 1/20/2014 1:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
Who are you quoting with this testimonial? Yourself? Certainly not Gio6518, who you replied to.

Win7 has the same fundamental interface as Win95, and people certainly had to get used to the latter. As a kid, I remember being annoyed that I no longer had my icons arranged in nice program groups when booting up.


RE: Give it a shot
By Reclaimer77 on 1/20/2014 4:17:17 PM , Rating: 2
I paraphrased exactly what he's saying. Stop being a abnoxious turd please.

Your Win95 comparison? You're trying WAY too hard now. To the point you're making no logical sense.

Windows 8 is a failure. How people like you still try to lipstick this pig is beyond me.


RE: Give it a shot
By swizeus on 1/20/2014 12:35:27 PM , Rating: 2
People just hate change. But regardless, they are customer who are paying. As a power user, I still prefer Windows 8.1 though, if there is a really really old peripheral that no driver can be found, just install a VM and we are ready to go


RE: Give it a shot
By Solandri on 1/20/2014 4:53:12 PM , Rating: 4
That's kinda the point. Yes people hate change. But the fact that technology improves despite people hating change means that the improvements are sufficient to overcome people's hatred of change.

Windows 8 fails to reach that threshold. If you only ask "Does it have better features than Windows 7?" the answer is a resounding yes. I myself tolerate Windows 8 because of some of those features. But if you ask "Are the improvements enough to overcome people's hatred of change?" the answer is a resounding no.

Microsoft either needs to radically increase the improvements Windows 8 offers, or they need to tone down the changes it introduces. Only then will it get over the threshold at which people will tolerate change for the sake of improvement. The simplest change is the one nearly everyone has been begging for - let us turn off Metro and use it as a desktop OS, not as a tablet OS. And no, adding a start button which dumps you into Metro does not count as letting us use it as a desktop OS.


RE: Give it a shot
By HostileEffect on 1/20/2014 4:28:59 PM , Rating: 3
Windows 8 crippled my Sager notebook with disk overload glitches and irritating menus that not even registry edits could stop from "moving my mouse the wrong way". What, I'm holding my laptop wrong now?

Windows 8 can rot, its a broken product.


RE: Give it a shot
By Chaser on 1/20/2014 4:46:20 PM , Rating: 1
I had the same experience. Tried 8.1 once. My mind went into "this is a tablet on a PC mode" so back to Windows 7 I went.

Several months later I had to buy a new license as I discovered the "discounted" Windows 7 key I had bought was phony.

This round I decided to invest 60 minutes in the most unbiased, unassuming means I could. Today Windows 7 is a thing of the past for me. Windows 8.1 does more. The coveted "start menu" changes are minimal. I like Metro's Sports app, and the amazing weather app. The Youtube, Facebook and even email apps make finding information that matters to me much easier than being shackled to a browser.

Once press of a button there's Metro. Press again and back to my desktop. The search features are far more robust. The native Skydrive integration with Windows 8.1 AND in Office make it even more appealing.

I just bought a new 8.1 PC for my 21 y/o daughter. She loves Metro and gets it. I hope the upcoming Windows 9 doesn't dumb down Windows. For those shackled to a hierarchical start menu to use their computer, give it to them. But for those of us that have moved on let us keep that option too. Make everyone happy.


RE: Give it a shot
By TheEinstein on 1/20/2014 5:19:59 PM , Rating: 3
I have two Republic of Gamer laptops with almost exactly the same hardware. The main difference is Windows 7 and Windows 8.

I despise the Windows 8 for when it forces me to use Metro. It makes me grind my teeth. I have had this since Windows 8 came out and yes I use it as my primary laptop (the Windows 7 laptop had to go to the shop and I set up the 8 fully which means more convenience).

I do not experience a faster boot, I do not see a performance gain, I do not feel like I have an advantage at all. In fact the Metro is a significant downside since there is no 'true' start button.


RE: Give it a shot
By Bateluer on 1/21/2014 4:53:03 PM , Rating: 2
I have given it a shot, 4 in fact. Each time its fallen flat on its face, with the last and final time breaking so hard in the 8.1 update I had to to reformat before the completion of the install.


"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein














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