Print 33 comment(s) - last by cly.. on Jun 11 at 5:33 PM

HP doesn't see the added value in adding Intel Turbo Memory to its notebooks

When Intel launched its Santa Rosa platform, many new features were added to improve notebook performance. Intel bumped the front side bus to 800MHz, added new Merom-based Core 2 Duo processors along with Intel Active Management Technology 2.5, the GMA X3100 integrated graphics solution and the Intel Wireless Wi-Fi Link 4965AGN Draft-N network adapter.

The company also announced NAND flash-based Intel Turbo Memory which is aimed at improving performance and increasing battery life for notebooks in Windows Vista. Intel claims that Turbo Memory (which is available in 512MB or 1GB varieties) can provide up to 2x faster loading times with applications and a 20 percent decrease when booting Windows Vista.

Although Intel makes these claims for Turbo Memory performance, the results in the real world haven't been as promising. Hewlett-Packard has publicly stated that it hasn't been impressed with Turbo Memory performance and that its notebook computers will not carry the feature.

"We have done quite a bit of research on this [to see] whether there is any true value for our customers, rather than taking what is available and putting it in," said HP's Steven Gales to ZDNET UK. "We added 1GB of RAM and saw a much higher improvement in performance compared to using any of the ReadyBoost or Robson technology. If you have enough system RAM in the system already, ReadyBoost doesn't give you a lot."

HP also took issue with the fact that the use of Turbo Memory onboard a notebook locks out the customer from adding a ReadyBoost compliant Secure Digital card or USB thumb drive to improve system performance.

"A customer can have more flexibility with an SD card or USB key because they can choose for themselves (when to add it and) pick the price point at which they want to add that technology. We're not forcing them into paying X and being locked into 512MB," Gales continued.

Finally, HP showed concern over the price of the Turbo Memory module. HP points out that Intel charges around $50 for the 1GB module. On the other hand, a consumer could pick up a 2GB Secure Digital card for around $20 and get roughly the same performance boost in Windows Vista.

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HP is Wrong
By TomZ on 6/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: HP is Wrong
By A5 on 6/5/2007 9:40:57 AM , Rating: 5
Every objective test I've seen of the Robson technology agrees with HP's assessment - boot times improve by a few seconds if at all.

RE: HP is Wrong
By Brandon Hill on 6/5/2007 9:43:44 AM , Rating: 5
AnandTech performance results concur:

RE: HP is Wrong
By TomZ on 6/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: HP is Wrong
By defter on 6/5/2007 10:04:08 AM , Rating: 5
Intel's previous guidance showed much larger savings than "zero."

You mean Intel's marketing material showed much larger savings than "zero"?

RE: HP is Wrong
By cly on 6/11/2007 5:33:09 PM , Rating: 2
I bet they will see the difference when the laptop's harddisk get older because the time saving is mainly recovered from the latency of harddisk reading mechanism.

RE: HP is Wrong
By kknd1967 on 6/6/2007 2:36:09 AM , Rating: 2
You might want to name a few "objective" and "independent" sources, in addition to Anandtech. If you check HKEPC, the gain of Turbo Memory is there, sometimes marginal but never as negative as Anandtech's result.

RE: HP is Wrong
By Nehemoth on 6/5/2007 9:58:14 AM , Rating: 2
Where to me you are wrong, Thank you HP for bear in mind the customers.

RE: HP is Wrong
By nayy on 6/5/2007 10:07:22 AM , Rating: 2
How dare they to despise an overprice technology with no real added value for the costumer. Shame on them!

HP is more about quality and value than being on the bleeding edge of technology. I’m sure that when technology is ready and gives a significant performance advantage in relation to the cost, they will include it, until then it just doesn’t match their product strategy.

RE: HP is Wrong
By Spivonious on 6/5/2007 10:21:10 AM , Rating: 2
If HP is about quality and value, then why do they include all the crappy software on their new PCs? It takes almost a full day just to track it all down and remove it.

Don't put them on a pedestal; they're just like every other PC company.

RE: HP is Wrong
By xti on 6/5/2007 10:51:02 AM , Rating: 4
point to a large OEM that gives you just the barebones OS?

RE: HP is Wrong
By hubajube on 6/5/2007 12:01:10 PM , Rating: 2
point to a large OEM that gives you just the barebones OS?
Acer. I bought a laptop for myself and ordered one for a customer. Neither had any bloatware (besides the OS). They were so clean, I didn't even reload them.

RE: HP is Wrong
By mindless1 on 6/6/2007 8:37:15 PM , Rating: 2
Look again, last Acer I bought (less than a year ago) had it's share of bloat but at least not Symantec or McAfee magnitude bloat.

RE: HP is Wrong
By michael2k on 6/5/2007 3:53:19 PM , Rating: 2
HP on their business machines

RE: HP is Wrong
By psedog on 6/7/2007 11:05:29 AM , Rating: 2
This a dell that only comes with DOS. That's pretty bare to me.

RE: HP is Wrong
By TimberJon on 6/5/2007 11:26:48 AM , Rating: 1
Worse. Some of that software is embedded good, and the system is welded shut so that it doesnt like hardware add-ons. Flips out with any changes.

When people call me up for tech consulting or to ask if I can fix their computer, and they tell me its a compaq or HP, i shudder and whistle at them. shame shame for falling for their marketing garbage! retail store computer deals arent deals, their curses.

RE: HP is Wrong
By Samus on 6/5/2007 3:15:56 PM , Rating: 2
They don't include all that 'crappy software' on ANY of their business machines.

In fact, every HP business PC I've ever seen comes cleaner than anyone elses, especially IBM's with all that ThinkVantage crap and Dell's with all that Dell Support Tool crap.

So get your facts straight. Obviously if you walk into a Best Buy, any computer you buy will have a ton of crap pre-installed, because it's home-consumer-oriented.

Try ordering a Business PC from HP Business and you'll see what I mean.

RE: HP is Wrong
By darkpaw on 6/5/2007 4:27:34 PM , Rating: 2
There has always been a huge difference between HPs consumer and business PC's. Used to be Pavillion for consumer and Vectra for business, don't know if they still use those lines as I'm not in the PC business anymore.

Back when I did a lot of business in this area, I wouldn't sell a pavillion to my worst enemy, but highly recommend a Vectra.

Still do have a scar on my right hand from a Vectra desktop though, those damn 486 desktop cases had some sharp edges in them. Wish I woulda known what workman's comp was working part time for a repair shop in high school, coulda gotten my hand fixed before it scarred.

RE: HP is Wrong
By IcY18 on 6/5/2007 10:11:39 AM , Rating: 3
"Also, HP, why not offer it to your customers and let them decide if it is a worthwhile option? Why do you decide for all your customers that decreasing boost time is not worth $50? "

Well because just about every notebook that is sold is not optioned for or bought online to the customer's specific wants. More often than not you go to the local computer store and the one you want includes many things you don't need or want and typically you are forced to buy those other things so you can get the other more important things.

I'm glad hp took the time to do the research to find out the real value of this which in the end benefits us.

RE: HP is Wrong
By raven3x7 on 6/5/2007 11:49:37 AM , Rating: 1
Im guessing you represent Intel marketing

RE: HP is Wrong
By raven3x7 on 6/5/2007 11:50:23 AM , Rating: 2
Please ignore my previous post

RE: HP is Wrong
By kamel5547 on 6/5/2007 11:35:08 AM , Rating: 2
So if the custimer wants the "option" they can buy a USB drive or SD card and use it... that option still exists for ReadyBoost at least, and is far cheaper than paying $50 for 512MB (as the 1 GB would be divided into two sections one for each feature). On top of it if the flash is built into the MoBo you are limited to that capacity and cannot use a 2 GB USB drive (per HP).

RE: HP is Wrong
By TomZ on 6/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: HP is Wrong
By Brandon Hill on 6/5/2007 12:25:00 PM , Rating: 3
Sure there is, they can add a hybrid hard drive which enables "ReadyDrive"

Windows ReadyDrive and Hybrid Hard Disk Drives are standard hard drives that include both rotating media and an integrated cache of non-volatile flash memory (also known as NVRAM). This cache buffers disk writes and allows the disk drive to stay spun down for longer periods of time to increase battery life and the overall reliability of the drives in mobile systems. Serving data from the non-volatile cache increases the performance of the boot and resume processes as well as disk- and memory-intensive applications by avoiding the latency of random disk I/Os.

RE: HP is Wrong
By Oregonian2 on 6/5/2007 1:36:08 PM , Rating: 2
The option you want them to offer is: If you want this option for $50, buy HP, if you don't want to pay $50 for the option buy Dell (or Gateway, or whatever) who doesn't offer it. HP may not want to give that option unless they think the answer is "yes! I love it" by most potential customers.

Also if Intel prices it at $50, it's be $90 to the customer. HP isn't a free distribution company.

Personally, I think it's a waste of money and would take the other choice, and for many reasons (one of which is that I think Vista is <expletive deleted>, and will stay with XP as long as possible or until they fix/finish Vista).

P.S. - At least with laptops, I tend not to ever "boot" them. I usually put them to sleep, as such, and it's really just "waking" back up, not "booting". Not that it would be booted that often anyway (OS/2 users seemed to always be doing constant floppy formating, I guess Vista users are always booting).

RE: HP is Wrong
By DallasTexas on 6/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: HP is Wrong
By Christopher1 on 6/5/2007 9:48:09 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, there is something that users can use that will speed up boot time: more regular memory. My father's Media Center PC used to load PAINFULLY slow, took it 5 minutes or more to completely load with 512MB of RAM.

Now, with 2.5 GB, it takes a grand total of 30 seconds to completely load, and nothing else has changed.

Intel is always talking BULL
By cornfedone on 6/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: Intel is always talking BULL
By euclidean on 6/5/2007 12:22:39 PM , Rating: 4
Intel's Core 2 Duo performs extremely well compared to competitors, even though I do prefer AMD cpus I'm pretty tempted to get a new machine with the Core 2s. Vista is amazing imo. Got a new Gateway laptop with 2GB DDR2 800, 120GB SATA 7200rpm hdd, and a GeForce Go 8400. I play CounterStrike Source on it all the time and even on vista i'm getting 150FPS+. So i'm not too sure where your claim that Vista is a bloated POS comes from, or that Intel is rarely the best performing/value. I just think too many people in this world don't want to change and would rather see new software that doesn't use the potentials of new technology.

Besides that though, HP was smart about not putting that in their laptops. And as far as all the extra's go, how in the world does it take someone all day to remove that software? maybe 45 minutes at the max.

RE: Intel is always talking BULL
By Oregonian2 on 6/5/2007 1:48:25 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, quite. After being an AMD fanboy once I got past the 486-50 processor, I jumped ship to the Core 2 Duo (e6600) recently and am a very happy clam. Not an Intel fanboy quite yet, but since the release of the Core 2 Duo, Intel's marketing garbage has started to actually be truthful. Radical! But maybe they've slipped up on the flash issue (or maybe it's really a Vista'ism so the credit can go further North).

RE: Intel is always talking BULL
By nerdye on 6/5/2007 10:13:42 PM , Rating: 2
Intel has taken a lot of flak prior to core 2 duo, funny, me like you had been rocking AMD's since around the 486 era tell core 2 duo, but that is not the discussion at hand. Robson/Intel Turbo Memory has not had the benefits to the newest iteration of the centrino architecture (santa rosa) as most expected. HP is the numero uno pc manufacturing company in the world right now, they have the balls to say no to intel despite their current core architecture dominance, do you think Dell would have implemented such a stance during their dominance a few years back, I don't think so. I'm not slamming intel, I think there is a future in integrated flash memory to a degree, but this current "intel turbo memory" offering is "NOT" that, at all. Time will serve this tech soon enough, I for one would rather sport a 4 gig flash device of choice at a reasonable price on my next laptop for the time being. Thank you HP!

By mindless1 on 6/6/2007 8:45:00 PM , Rating: 2
Actually Core 2 Duo performs about the same as equivalent priced AMD CPUs. Only when the budget gets extreme does one see a significant difference.

Vista is a bloated train-wreck. To claim that by having a modern video card, you can play game X and Y framerate, is irrelevant. You are wrong about people not wanting to change, XP was lauded by a large majority but not so with Vista. People were willing to change when it was in their best interests, and will be again when that becomes true again.

Viral marketing
By DeepThought86 on 6/5/07, Rating: -1
"Spreading the rumors, it's very easy because the people who write about Apple want that story, and you can claim its credible because you spoke to someone at Apple." -- Investment guru Jim Cramer
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