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HD DVD sales are less than 2,000 behind those of Blu-ray Disc

In a recent battle of press releases, the Blu-ray Association announced that sales of Blu-ray Disc titles have surpassed one million units in less than a year since the format’s introduction. In a statement from the HD DVD Promotional Group received by DailyTech, it appears that sales of HD DVD movies are not far behind those of Blu-ray Disc.

According to stats cited by the HD DVD Group, which are based on recent data from Nielsen Videoscan, Universal, Warner and Toshiba, HD DVD titles are now at 998,059 units sold, representing less-than 2,000 units shy of Blu-ray’s announced figures. Of course, while the next-generation formats fight over claims of collective sales of one million, a single DVD title could easily sell over one million units on its own.

“Yes, these are still small numbers compared to DVD sales, but point being – HD DVD is still very much in the game,” read the HD DVD Group statement. “As more HD DVD titles hit the market (take a look at pre-order rankings for Planet Earth and The Matrix Trilogy) and as prices for HD DVD hardware continue to drop below the $400 mark, we're seeing more equal week to week movie sales ratios between the formats.”

The HD DVD Promotional Group announced last week that it has sold more than 100,000 standalone players in the U.S. since introduction, and claims to be currently outselling dedicated Blu-ray players by a four-to-one margin.

“Why are we just focusing on dedicated players? So we can compare stats on similar hardware with similar attach rates,” explained the HD DVD Group. “That's a key driver of software sales and shows that price is clearly a factor for consumers in deciding to buy dedicated high definition hardware.”

“Bottom line is that HD DVD is staying focused across the board on creating great products at great prices,” the Group added.

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Image Quality and digitally remastered film
By Jackyl on 4/26/2007 1:55:13 PM , Rating: 3
I could care less at this point who wins. What I'd like to see is all films being cleaned up. There are some terrible releases out there on both formats. For example, Waterworld for HD-DVD. It has a lot of spots, scratches throughout the film, especially at the very beginning. The studios are not taking the time to clean up the films, and get rid of scratches, hair, spots . This should all be cleaned up before going to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.

High-Def resolution is one thing. But I don't want to see all that junk on the frames throughout the movie. It's no better then a lot of DVD releases and is why I never bought a lot of DVD's. I know several people that also won't buy any movies if they are not properly remastered and digitally cleaned up.




RE: Image Quality and digitally remastered film
By johnsonx on 4/26/2007 4:49:46 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
For example, Waterworld for HD-DVD. It has a lot of spots, scratches throughout the film...


To say nothing of the spots and scratches throughout the PLOT!


By masher2 (blog) on 4/26/2007 5:05:03 PM , Rating: 3
That movie had a plot?


RE: Image Quality and digitally remastered film
By fic2 on 4/26/2007 8:27:23 PM , Rating: 2
They didn't actually expect anyone to watch it. I am suprised they bothered to put any content on the disc at all. Actually, come to think of it - that would have been an improvement.


RE: Image Quality and digitally remastered film
By jadedeath on 4/26/2007 10:25:19 PM , Rating: 2
I think I'll make Waterworld 2, the movie with Plot!

Logan


By tuteja1986 on 4/27/2007 1:42:02 PM , Rating: 2
Any one remember UMD... It sold 8million UMD movies in the 1st year and now look where it is. Just because they reached 1million doesn't mean crap all.


By timmiser on 4/26/2007 7:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
No no no! First you have to buy the first version as it is with the scratches and hair. Then, after you purchased this version, that is when they will release a REMASTERED version for you to buy.


success indicator
By Verran on 4/26/2007 9:48:08 AM , Rating: 5
The pic in the Blu-Ray article had two cute asian girls, the HD-DVD article only has one cute one. I think the winner is obvious. :)




RE: success indicator
By soydeedo on 4/26/2007 10:02:42 AM , Rating: 3
but one of them looked like a man. and an ugly one at that. instant point deduction.


RE: success indicator
By bkm32 on 4/26/2007 12:59:56 PM , Rating: 3
It looks like one of the BR-DVD girls is the same one in the HD-DVD Pic.

Is this a metaphor for the need of a dual-format player or disc?


RE: success indicator
By alifbaa on 4/26/2007 5:08:14 PM , Rating: 1
No. That metaphor was the trany mentioned above.


RE: success indicator
By bkm32 on 4/26/2007 1:07:54 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously, the real indicator will be when the Matrix Trilogy releases for HD-DVD. Following that will be the format that snags either the Star Wars saga (s) and/or the The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Also, I remember The Waterboy moving a lot of DVD players back when they were $300+. You know what Mama says, "Hi-Def is da debil!"


lets not forget that..
By michal1980 on 4/26/2007 9:51:28 AM , Rating: 4
HD-DVD came out MONTHS before Blu-Ray. And for a few months had NO competition.




RE: lets not forget that..
By teldar on 4/26/2007 10:42:31 AM , Rating: 3
But the players were a thousand dollars a piece, and people could buy 0-2 titles for a couple of those months. What will happen when PS3 buyers slow down on the BR disk movie buying. If they do.

Teldar


RE: lets not forget that..
By masher2 (blog) on 4/26/2007 10:52:59 AM , Rating: 3
> "What will happen when PS3 buyers slow down on the BR disk movie buying..."

3 million PS3s worldwide, and only 1 million BD discs sold? Even assuming standalone BD buyers are buying no discs at all, thats one movie for every three PS3 owners.

If it slows down any more than that, it won't be moving at all.


RE: lets not forget that..
By deeznuts on 4/26/2007 1:26:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
3 million PS3s worldwide, and only 1 million BD discs sold?
I'm not sure, but these are only Nielsen Videoscan numbers, so I don't think they are counting worldwide, just NA.


No surprises here
By TheTerl on 4/26/2007 9:49:08 AM , Rating: 3
All competing propaganda aside, I think this goes to show what most of us have been saying for a long time--neither format has annihilated the other, and it's likely going to be a long time before we have an undisputed successor to DVD.




RE: No surprises here
By oddity21 on 4/26/2007 11:30:53 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly.

In the meantime, millions upon millions of DVDs are sold every week. I can't claim to know how things are all around the globe, but here in my country there's absolutely no interest in these HD formats.


RE: No surprises here
By deeznuts on 4/26/2007 2:16:35 PM , Rating: 2
DVD won over DIVX way way before there were cheap players and mass adoption. not the same war, but still interesting.


RE: No surprises here
By Oregonian2 on 4/26/2007 2:32:53 PM , Rating: 2
I recall DIVX being quite late and DVD's to have already been popular. In any case, it seems that Circuit City is trying the same general media-rental idea over again with their deal with Napster I think it was. Wonder if they'll name it DIVX2.


Sony vs PS3 vs the world
By Shadowmaster625 on 4/26/2007 11:12:54 PM , Rating: 3
HD-DVD hardware is cheaper for the consumer, HD-DVD media is cheaper for the producer, and HD-DVD production costs are significantly cheaper.

Blu-Ray has more capacity, and of course the support of millions of PS3's.

Given the outrageous prices we dumbed down americans pay for things like broadband internet service, I am not surprised that the most economical format isnt winning just yet! Truth be told, I am shocked boo-ray is not outselling HD DVD by 5 to 1.

The capacity issue is a nonissue to the consumer. So it's basically a war between the cheap consumer mainstream, and the idiot PS3 fanbois who are willing to waste untold amounts of money. Gee I wonder who is going to win in the long run?!

Only people who like to waste money would support boo-ray at this point. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of those types of people out there!

Studio support is not a factor. The studios (aside from sony) will follow the money. Only Sony wont support both formats when standalone HD-DVD players get under $200. But even Sony will support both when HD-DVD players get under $100! It would be simply too much money for them to pass up!

The bottom line is that Sony needs to be taught a lesson for trying to use it's loyal base of gamers to push a less economical format onto the masses. The numbers don't lie. Sony is losing massive amounts of money trying to subsidize blu-ray. The tough competition from two successful consoles could end up costing them dearly. All because of blu-ray. They could have released the PS3 right along with the xbox360, had they gone with just a dvd drive. And things would be totally different now. There was no rational reason for them to delay. I hear talk about how some games need more than one disc. But so what. I loved FF7 and it was 3 discs. And with a hard drive what does it matter anyway? And hello, what about downloading additional content? duh. Come on. Sony screwed up and dropped the ball far worse than people are admitting. This is what I mean when I say it's Sony vs the PS3!




RE: Sony vs PS3 vs the world
By Axbattler on 4/27/2007 9:30:45 AM , Rating: 2
I've read that HD-DVD media is cheaper to produce before. That is nice.. if they did pass the cost back to the consumer. Is that really the case though? I do not have the impression that HD-DVD titles are cheaper, nor do I have the impression that blank HD-DVD media are cheaper per GB. Well, the battle is only has only started. Maybe HD-DVD will really come down in price faster than BD. But until I evidence of cheaper HD-DVD, I fail to see how the BD is the less sensible choice.


RE: Sony vs PS3 vs the world
By jadedeath on 4/27/2007 1:20:43 PM , Rating: 2
"Studio support is not a factor."

How exactly do you figure that? MGM is owned by Sony and MGM released the biggest selling High Definition movie to date with Casino Royale.

Disney has signed a deal with Sony to only release it's wares on Blu-Ray, that means if you want Shrek you're going to have to get a PS3 or a Blu-Ray player.

Sony is losing money per PS3 sold, but that's the only thing that they're losing money on, do you honestly think that they aren't making money hand over fist regarding certain Blu-Ray disk sales?

I'd hardly call that "massive amounts" in addition to which every game sold I'm sure they get a certain amount, add those two together and you'll find that Sony stock isn't going anywhere.

Logan


RE: Sony vs PS3 vs the world
By bjorn47 on 4/29/2007 1:35:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
MGM is owned by Sony and MGM released the biggest selling High Definition movie to date with Casino Royale.

Well... they BUNDLED it with a lot of ps3's and claimed the bundles as sales. Warped statistics.


Uh oh...
By cubby1223 on 4/26/2007 1:06:58 PM , Rating: 2
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/070420/8/...

We've got another mysterious news report from Asia with keywords "blue dvd" "50GB" "American manufacturers ordering 2 million units"...

What does it all mean? Maybe something, maybe nothing. But it does prove that this format war is utterly retarded, jumping on unconfirmed information is even worse, and the spin on statistics is out of control. Statistics are fine, but you've got to know how to properly interpret them. Like this story, sure you can *say* they are even, but you also have to include the current 2:1 sales lead. You have to accept *both* pieces of information before you can start to have an accurate picture of what's going on.




RE: Uh oh...
By bplewis24 on 4/26/2007 1:24:28 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you 100%. I would at least like to see the transcript from the HD DVD Promotional Group since there is no publishing of it and they basically just called up DailyTech and gave them the information. You would think they'd want to publish this somewhere for marketing purposes. Maybe over the next day or two it will surface.

Like you said, more stats need to be used to give us a real picture of what is going on. I would really love to see stats on HD DVD vs Blu-ray rentals , since most people that own next-gen hardware likely rent high def movies several times (maybe even 5-10x) over the amount they actually purchase.

Also, keep in mind that April hasn't ended and it will be very interesting to see the numbers from this month. HD-DVD organized a specific purchase date for HD-DVD owners to buy movies in order to sway the format wars in their favor. I believe that was a few weeks ago. This started on the AVS forums, and so some Blu-ray supporters organized a blu-ray buying date for last weekend. I'm very curious to see how the numbers turn out from that.

Brandon


Now what happens when...
By cubby1223 on 4/26/2007 5:23:50 PM , Rating: 2
Warner releases their THD discs which have hd-dvd on one side & blu-ray on the other? Can't wait for how the "camps" spin those numbers... *sigh*




RE: Now what happens when...
By hr824 on 4/26/2007 8:26:59 PM , Rating: 2
If I owned stock in a movie studio that didn't support both formatts I'd would be calling for the CEO's head. I realy can't understand why a movie studio would only want to sell there product to half the potental customers besides sony.

That said players at some point will be able to play both formatts and cost less than $100.00 and no one will care at all what formatt the movie is in.


It's all very simple
By cubby1223 on 4/27/2007 1:04:57 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=2006
The top 5 movies of last year are from blu-ray exclusive studios. Universal does not appear on the list until #18.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=2007...
4 of the top 10 if released will be blu-ray exclusives. Universal does not appear until #13. By the end of the summer, Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, & The Simpsons as blu-ray exclusives will be added to that list.

So what do you think is going to happen this Christmas season when the masses are supposedly going to make the switch to hi def movies? Which format are they going to choose?

Can this finally put things in perspective for people, instead of harping over all these irrelevant press releases?




RE: It's all very simple
By jadedeath on 4/27/2007 1:35:21 PM , Rating: 2
I could totally see about 25% of all PS3 owners wanting to own at least one of those two movies {Pirates and Spider-man} most likely more.

That's {give or take} about a Million copies total. What does Universal have that can compete with that?

Logan


What if 360 shipped with hd-dvd?
By nerdye on 4/27/2007 1:11:11 AM , Rating: 2
What if 360 shipped with hd-dvd? would the hd dvd figures be severely bloated just like blue ray's are with every ps3 shipping with a blue ray drive? How about roughly 10 million or so hd dvd drives in already sold 360's? Only time will tell, hell I want a format to win with more capacity than either of the two like holographic storage, but every argument deserves an equal sided argument I'd say. What do you guys think about the format wars if 360 shipped with an hd dvd drive?




By jadedeath on 4/27/2007 1:30:21 PM , Rating: 2
Then the cost of the 360 would be $200 more expensive and basically put it at the same cost {if not a little higher} than PS3, and right now the main argument of 360 fanboys is that the PS3 is sooooooo expensive.

Not to mention the fact that the 360 Elite is in the runnings for the same price as the PS3 if it dropped by 100 bucks over the holidays.

When Bill Gates reconsiders his stance, that's when you have to wonder, I mean Microsoft basically screwed 360 owners with the drive to begin with. If Microsoft doesn't offer at least a discount when they bring out the Blu-Ray drives then you're probably going to have at least a few unhappy 360 owners out there.

Logan


Nearly equal my ass
By Darkon on 4/26/2007 8:31:01 PM , Rating: 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bluesmoke79...

Seriously Dailytech double checks your goddamn news articles for once.




No need to worry....
By kilkennycat on 4/26/2007 8:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
Just as with DVD, then DVD+R, DVD-R, the dual-format player for Blu-ray and HD-DVD (with burn capability in one or other format, besides DVD/CD+/-R/W burn) will be the "ring to rule them all". A slightly more complex mechanical control system and dual-HD-format silicon and then bingo....

I predict that both single-format and dual-format HD- drives/players (with normal DVD/CD/MP3 etc) will be exactly the same price by the end of 2008, with the single format subsequently headed to the discount shelves.

I personally have little interest in buying high-def disks at their current inflated prices and zero interest in buying a PS3 or Xbox360, so I shall happily continued with up-converted standard-DVD until the dual-format players are available (with disk-burn ability), at reasonable prices.




Dates of Quoted Figures
By deeznuts on 4/26/2007 2:18:12 PM , Rating: 1
I would like to know the dates of these quoted figures. For instance, when did BD surpass 1 million, and what date is HD DVD quoting 99.98K. Or is the same day based on Nielsen Videoscan numbers.




A gap that will only widen
By psychobriggsy on 4/26/07, Rating: -1
RE: A gap that will only widen
By keitaro on 4/26/2007 10:36:37 AM , Rating: 3
An interesting point and theory... I cannot help but think, though, that there are several other factors that'll help in deciding which will be the clear-cut winner -- players, disc expenses, titles, robustness, etc.

Sadly it's still too early to tell which side will be the successor. If the trend continues on, that being the higher selling rate of Blu-Ray titles, then we'll know in about 6-12 month time that HD-DVD should be considered the inferior format.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By teldar on 4/26/2007 10:40:57 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
then we'll know in about 6-12 month time that HD-DVD should be considered the inferior format.


I think that's a fuzzy ay of saying it. The best does not always make it in the market place. Look at BetaMax. It was clearly superior to VHS in quality and it didn't make it. HD-DVD may just be the loser, not the inferior.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Oregonian2 on 4/26/2007 2:26:57 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I think that's a fuzzy ay of saying it. The best does not always make it in the market place. Look at BetaMax. It was clearly superior to VHS in quality and it didn't make it. HD-DVD may just be the loser, not the inferior.


Not true, not true. VHS was superior. In the beginning, VHS could do an unattended recording of a broadcast movie -- one of the major reasons for having a VCR. Betamax had a one-hour maximum, not enough to record a movie. Betamax was not only inferior, it was utterly incapable of doing that which was a major use of the device. Also why tape movie rentals would have two tapes for Beta and one for VHS. Less convenient for just playing pre-recorded movies too. Now, Betamax did fix this later on when it was clear they were being hurt, but "the decision" had already been made. At that point one wanted what everybody else wanted. Sony didn't want to make a 2-hour version, I've read, because they didn't want to reduce the technical "video quality" even though that made the "VCR quality" very poor. There's more to "quality" than the quality of the video. If I made a new format where video quality was double that of Blu-Ray, players costed $29, and discs were easy to make for $1. BUT whenever a disc was inserted, it would take 24 hours before it could start playing it. Would this "superior video" format succeed? Nope, it'd probably sell three units (ones the maker's family bought). "Quality" applies to all that the unit needs to do, not just one aspect of it.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By CorrND on 4/26/2007 3:35:17 PM , Rating: 2
I think you must have missed the word "quality" in his post. Your points may be valid, but there is no question that Betamax had superior quality.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By johnsonx on 4/26/2007 4:55:22 PM , Rating: 3
No, his point is that there is more to 'quality' than purely picture quality. To the consumer, being limited to one hour per tape was a quality issue, as in the qualities of the product did not meet the consumer's need.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By fic2 on 4/26/2007 8:09:25 PM , Rating: 2
I would say that is a user experience thing and nothing to do with quality. The one hour limit and other stupid/normal Sony decisions killed BetaMax.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By theaerokid on 4/26/2007 11:04:58 AM , Rating: 2
The disc expense factor is what I'm wondering about. What happened to this "significant" lower production cost advantage that HD-DVD had? When I go to the store I still don't see a big enough difference in cost to make me lean to HD-DVD.

It may be this two-sided DVD/HD-DVD disc thing that brought the price back up. If it is, it's raising the price point to where it's still near-even. Apparently the gap in player prices is not enough to sway the consumer, so maybe a significant gap in disc cost may make it happen.

Nevermind that marketing-wise, I'm seeing more Bluray than HD-DVD by about 3:1 at least.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By jadedeath on 4/26/2007 11:41:59 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, the last time I checked the prices for the stuff brought out on both is about the same. Which can only mean one thing, that HD-DVD is trying to screw people.

I {for one} really hate double sided disks, there's WAY too much of a chance to scratch them {having two sides to scratch instead of just one} and the fact that HD-DVD is trying to release a double sided disk with DVD and HD and they still weren't the first to make it to a million startles me.

Logan


RE: A gap that will only widen
By mcnabney on 4/26/2007 1:01:01 PM , Rating: 3
HD-DVD media can be mastered on existing DVD equipment that have been given a minor and inexpensive upgrade.

BD media require entirely new mastering equipment.

So production costs of HD-DVD will be considerably lower. There is no difference in price right now because the studios/distributors/retailer don't mind having a fatter profit margin at this time. In a normal market there would be a price war, but since there is considerable collusion in this industry I wouldn't count on it. Besides, even though the HD-DVD consortium could announce that their disks will be cheaper, that could be taken as a sign of weakness. Right now the HD content is still a premium offering that can command premium prices. Nobody wants to endanger the premium profits.

Also of note. If that announced HD player deal from Wal-Mart really is for HD-DVD there could be a problem for BD. Most DVDs sold in America come from Wal-Mart. Really. So if they pick a side you know where the smart money will go...


RE: A gap that will only widen
By EglsFly on 4/26/2007 7:29:13 PM , Rating: 2
If the production cost of HD-DVD is cheaper and they are selling HD-DVD for more money because they can get away with it, is a major mistake on their part. They can't see through the greed of making an extra dollar off of the consumer and realize that market share is the most important part of the game right now. Once one format becomes a clear market share leader, will be the death of the other because the consumer will not want to be stuck with a format that doesn't appear to be making it.

Sure you can milk money off of early adopters, but they are really putting at risk a chance to win the overall war.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By h0mi on 4/29/2007 11:43:00 AM , Rating: 2
There are growing worries that Walmart will do to HD Media what they did to HDTV; last Xmas, Walmart started selling HDTVs at some fairly cut throat prices (which explains Tweeter, Circuit City and Comp USA's current woes) and are now the #2 electronics retailer in the US. (And this is why sales at Walmart at key... it's not about "appealing to the average Walmart customer")

If this Xmas season (especially black friday) they sell HD media players (I'm certain it wont be Bluray) for $200, Best Buy et al will follow suit. These will move a lot of units, especially as people buy them along side their $500 HDTVs as well for Christmas. And if Walmart offers a sub $500 universal player (hey I can dream can't I?) that will help move those players into more homes and put an end to the format war faster.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Live on 4/26/2007 2:10:02 PM , Rating: 2
Must there be a winner? I mean who won the dvd +/- battle? Granted the differences are bigger this time between HD-DVD and Blue-ray. Nonetheless dual players have already been announced, and in a few years when its time to announce a winner, I bet they are cheap enough to be the natural choice. Especially if the studios release exclusive titles I don't see myself or the consumers at large wanting to be limited.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By timmiser on 4/26/2007 6:57:53 PM , Rating: 2
That is not a fair comparison because you could have media on DVD that both a DVD-R drive AND a DVD+R drive could read the DVD. The + / - difference only came down to choosing the format of the blank media. This format war is slightly different then the +/- DVD war in that sense but it could still be solved with an affordable dual format player.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Verran on 4/26/2007 10:41:07 AM , Rating: 5
I disagree. BR can get all the lead it wants, but the winner will be the first format to have a widely available sub-$200 standalone player, regardless of what's happened since then. The market is not $500+ players. That's a drop in the bucket. The market is mainstream, and this won't take off until those people can afford it. Average Joe doesn't care about the intricacies of formats that he can't afford. It doesn't matter how good of a deal it is, if he can only afford one, that's the one he'll buy.

Also, there's no hurry to get one format or another picked up. The percentage of households in the US that has an HDTV is still VERY low. Until that changes, neither format will sell enough to be a clear winner.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By d0gb0y on 4/26/2007 10:51:05 AM , Rating: 5
Agreed. Just as the article states, all it would take is one blockbuster to sell a million movies. The first format to offer ~$200 player will be the first to sell a million players. Once you have the install base, then you can easily bounce back or even surpass the competion with just one release. This is why HD-DVD keeps bring up the number of stand alone players. The larger this number, the bigger the benefit to any studio when releasing their top titles.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By retrospooty on 4/26/2007 11:29:54 AM , Rating: 3
"BR can get all the lead it wants, but the winner will be the first format to have a widely available sub-$200 standalone player"

Totally agreed, and a point that most people miss. Also worth mentioning walmart just took us a huge step in that direction with sub $300 HD-DVD players.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By cocoviper on 4/26/2007 12:44:59 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Using DVD as a comparison, the numbers in the market (one way or another) really are meaningless until
1) there is a player that is below $200 such that people will begin buying them instead of DVD players and
2) around the same time we have a "killer app" movie on that same format

(that causes people who want the movie to easily be able to afford the player...or vice versa).

The same thing happened with DVD around the 99-2000 timeframe with The Matrix. The combination of finally affordable DVD players with a movie that really showcased the advantages in sound and video changed the market.

So I mean we can debate the two sides all day long....but these numbers really are meaningless. Xmen3 sold more DVDs in a single day than BluRay AND HD-DVD in the last year


RE: A gap that will only widen
By jadedeath on 4/26/2007 11:53:40 AM , Rating: 1
I disagree, listen to alot of the X360 fans who claim that their player is worth only 200 bucks.

The fight will go to whoever releases the most product, noone wants a player that can only play 30 movies. When you can have a player that plays over 100.

The fight might very well end up being over when Pirates 3 and Spider-man 3 get released at the end of the year. If Sony also positions a PS3 price drop at that time all the hype that Toshiba and the HD-DVD camp are bringing up that the end of the year will be their time, will mean nothing. I mean think of it, why are they waiting until the end of the year? Last I checked that's still 8 months off. 8 Months in which Blu-Ray will increase the lead with them releasing a new movie on Blu-Ray weekly.

Logan


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Verran on 4/26/2007 1:34:04 PM , Rating: 2
I present you with an analogous example:

You have $25k to buy a car. On one hand, there's a Cavalier. Retail price is $15k, sticker says $15k. On the other hand, there's a Dodge Viper. Awesome. And today only, it's half off retail price. Just $40k. Which one are you going to buy?

Feature sets couldn't have less to do with it. You're thinking like an enthusiast (probably because you are). But enthusiasts make up almost 0% of the market. You're talking about a library of 30 vs. a library of 100. Consumers aren't going to sign on for either in face of how many tens of thousands of DVDs?

You need to realize that the best format doesn't always win. HD-DVD is significantly cheaper, and -that- is what sells. For every one customer who nitpicks the features on each box, there's 100 who will buy solely based on price. I'm not saying HD-DVD will win, nor am I saying BR will win. I'm just saying that the comparisons you're making have very little to do with the overall "uptake" of the technologies.

Besides... Pirates 3? Spiderman 3? A LOT can happen in that time line. And as for a PS3 price cut... well, I'll just say that's a VERY large "if".


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Timeless on 4/26/2007 3:01:47 PM , Rating: 2
I think your example is a little off there. How can you compare something that cost $10k+ to something that cose around $1k? A car is an expensive thing to buy and you will probably use it for a long time. If it breaks, you go and repair it because you don't want to buy a new one. A player for your home is most likely not going to be a once in 10 years expense. It's not going to be something that you worry day and night if you made the right decision or not. If it breaks, you wait until the price goes down and buy a new one. So can you expalin to me how you can compare a car to a HD player? I just don't get it...


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Verran on 4/26/2007 3:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
My example may have been poorly worded, or maybe you're not seeing it on my level. Either way, cars aren't really the point.

The point is that something can be the best deal in the world, but if you can't afford it, then it still does you no good. The example could be a pair of shoes, or an island, or a DVD player, it's all the same.

The point was that a $40k Viper would be awesome, but if you don't have the $40k, then it might as well be $200k. Just like how BR may be the better format, but if your budget allows for HD-DVD or nothing, then you're going to buy HD. That's why the format with the first sub-$200 player will win.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Timeless on 4/26/2007 6:13:41 PM , Rating: 2
I can see where you're coming from now, but I don't think the format with the first sub $200 player will win. A sub $200 player won't mean anything if that format doesn't have a good library of movies. You can go buy yourself a sub $200 player and brag to your friends how you got the best deal in town, but then what? What are you gonna do after that? I tend to think that most people go out and buy a player because there is something that they want to see on it. It's like consoles. I go out to buy a PS 3 for instance. Why I do that? I could have just as easily bought a Xbox 360 or a Wii if I could find one. I bought that PS3 so that I could play games for the it. Same thing with BD and HD-DVD. No one cares about the price if it can't play any of the good movies or movies that the person already has. Good luck trying to get your $200 HD-DVD player to play a BD only movie or vice versa.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By fic2 on 4/26/2007 8:18:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I present you with an analogous example:

You have $25k to buy a car. On one hand, there's a Cavalier. Retail price is $15k, sticker says $15k. On the other hand, there's a Dodge Viper. Awesome. And today only, it's half off retail price. Just $40k. Which one are you going to buy?


The one that gets me the hot 25 year old blonde, of course. Neither HD or BR are going to get me anywhere with her, though, so who cares which wins.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Samus on 4/26/2007 11:37:03 PM , Rating: 2
hahaha


RE: A gap that will only widen
By jadedeath on 4/26/2007 10:19:53 PM , Rating: 2
I think you just proved my point.

People are reluctant to sign on with either right now because they don't see why they should "upgrade" when they have a DVD player that plays everything that comes out anyway.

It doesn't matter how many less than $200 players HD comes out with people will not seek to get an upgrade until the HD players come out at the same price as DVD players.

It's the PS3's that will determine this fight because it's market penetration that wins every time. Currently Blu-Ray has the edge. Currently the average consumer that has either is siding with Blu-Ray as can be seen in any evidence that you look for with regards to number of sales. {try googling "Blu-Ray sales totals" sometime and you'll see what I mean}

Way I see it with the sales of either Casino Royale will continue to have the top spot for number of sales for quite some time, when Spider-man and Pirates come out on Blu-Ray you're going to see another big boom because those are the two biggest releases this summer, there's nothing that HD-DVD {or Universal in this case} has that could come close to matching those two in a one-two punch scenario. If even a quarter of PS3 owners purchase even one of those two that's still a million copies split between two titles.

I like those odds.

What does HD have? Planet Earth? I'll fully admit it's doing very impressive sales, but will those sales hold?

Retailers, {yes even Walmart} go with what sells. If Blu-Ray is selling then they'll get less and less copies of HD-DVD titles in until eventually they stop carrying them entirely.

Logan


RE: A gap that will only widen
By paesan on 4/27/2007 8:20:05 AM , Rating: 2
Planet earth is also on blu-ray format. I have the complete edition and it is awesome.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By masher2 (blog) on 4/26/2007 5:08:32 PM , Rating: 3
> "noone wants a player that can only play 30 movies. When you can have a player that plays over 100"

Not sure what format you're talking about, but both HD-DVD and BD have around 200 releases out now.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By jadedeath on 4/26/2007 10:08:34 PM , Rating: 2
BR has more, they've got an impressive stock of Disney stuff coming out over the next little while, Sony Pictures is releasing stuff for it by the truckload and the gap just keeps getting bigger.

Walmart might try to lean things in their direction, but if that's the case why haven't they pulled Blu-Ray movies from their shelves entirely? The Answer to that is that since it's happening everywhere else chances are it's a 3-1 ratio in Walmart as well for BR vs HD and it's making them a shitload of money, plus if they want to maintain good relations with Hollywood they shouldn't piss off the majority that support Blu-Ray.

Logan


By psychobriggsy on 4/26/2007 1:38:32 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're agreeing with me actually - "However HD-DVD can make a comeback with cheaper players and cheaper discs if they do this *soon*." I don't mean the $200 XBox360 HD-DVD player either, but even that, if you consider it on its own, doesn't appear to be doing much for HD-DVD. Blue laser prices are dropping as more and more and made and otherwise the hardware for BluRay and HD-DVD isn't widely dissimilar.

Also don't forget the pulling power of having some major films on HD. LOTR, Matrix, Star Wars, etc ... they'd sell a million players. Also I think the PS3 effect has not kicked in yet, but in a year or so it'll be far greater - but the fact it hasn't kicked in is a complete kick in the teeth for Sony who wanted the PS3 to act as leverage for the format early on.

Also you say $200 ... but I think it will have to be lower than that (although more will bite at that magic figure). As you say, HDTV takeup is very low, and then you've got to care enough about HD over DVD to upgrade. If your DVD player works fine, are you going to drop $200 on a HD player, or wait until the DVD player fails? I bet many standard consumers will just see the price tag. $50 DVD player or $200 player, with only resolution as the selling point. DVD had a lot over VHS, making $200 attractive, and VHS was rarely $20-$50 for a player.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By AlexWade on 4/26/2007 12:16:10 PM , Rating: 1
Actually, WRONG! The gap has shrunk significantly and in April it appears HD DVD outsold Blu-Ray (though that isn't final or confirmed yet). And considering all those PS3 out there, it is a wonder that Blu-Ray isn't destroying HD DVD. The PS3 effect is done, that will only have a minor effect on the format war.

The only reason Blu-Ray outsold HD DVD is Q1 is lack of new titles on HD DVD. I really think at the end of the year, HD DVD will have sold more movies than Blu-Ray.

This war is anything but over. If the rumors are true about cheap Wal-Mart players -- which is very debatable -- then HD DVD will win. HD DVD is not out. In fact, HD DVD is holding its own very well.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By bluHD on 4/26/2007 2:17:31 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
rumors are true about cheap Wal-Mart players


Read the news before claiming victory my friend. Walmart is rumoured to have ordered $300Mil worth of $150 HD-DVD player from China for "delivery at the end of next year". That's Q4 2008. By then you can bet there will be many other HD players at that price point. 2 years after the first DVD player sold for a thousand bucks, there were plenty of $250 players.
This news is completely useless.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Oregonian2 on 4/26/2007 2:29:05 PM , Rating: 2
Rumor was recent, but when was the Walmart "next year" deal actually negotiated?

There have been new HD format players selling for under $300 already (albeit barely under).


RE: A gap that will only widen
By bluHD on 4/27/2007 2:51:05 AM , Rating: 2
Players? Come on, stop the propaganda please. There's exactly ONE player and from Tosh only at that price. Ignoring the consoles, no one else sells CE HD-DVD players right now. Therefore, Toshiba is the Sony of the 00s, HD-DVD is the Betamax of the 00s: one firm horse and format here.
I dont know about you but I thought America was about choice. If you're looking for an HD-DVD player right now, it's like walking in an East Berlin supermarket before the wall fell: there's only 1 brand of soap in the whole alley to choose from. Sure it was cheap!
Personally, I havent chosen sides yet, although I have a slight preferrence for a PS3 right now, but in any case, it wont be HD-DVD until more choice is available.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Oregonian2 on 4/27/2007 1:58:43 PM , Rating: 2
Your whole long posting was about my using an 's' where you think I shouldn't have? In any case I'm sure Toshiba has manufactured more than one unit of that model, so although there aren't model S for sale under $300, there have been player S available. IOW for $600 you could have two units. Plural. And is what I said. Reread my previous posting.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By Oregonian2 on 4/27/2007 2:03:36 PM , Rating: 2
P.S. - There have been dual format players announced, so although not under $300 by any means, there are more companies than just Toshiba making HD players (assuming announced things are buyable).


RE: A gap that will only widen
By MrFluffo on 4/26/2007 12:45:33 PM , Rating: 2
Im surprised that blu-ray is doing as well as it is. One of the reasons is this:
"...and as prices for HD DVD hardware continue to drop below the $400 mark, we're seeing more equal week to week movie sales ratios between the formats."

This is what surprises me, the fact that blu-ray players are selling so well despite the fact that last year and now are still higher priced than HD DVD players. Right now at circuit city the prices are as follows:
HD DVD - $400-$500 (about)
Blu-Ray - $600-$1000 (about)
(I used Circuit city and wal-mart because they are popular stores, more people shop there than Newegg.com)
Despite Blu ray being more expensive consumers are still purchasing it.


RE: A gap that will only widen
By ChristopherO on 4/26/2007 1:16:04 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, the gap is narrowing. PR people don't really care about facts, it's all about perception.

Earlier this year HD-DVD was getting trounced. This was a two-fold issue. PS3 owners were splurging, and there was a multi-month span where HD-DVD didn't really release any titles with a mass-market appeal.

Now that the quality of titles is back up, the overall sales of both formats is growing quite nicely. Eventually we'll see sales parity again. I expect that, unless Blu-Ray releases some cheap players (very quickly) it will ultimately get passed by HD-DVD. As time progresses, the PS3 effect will become more and more diminished since game consoles really aren't a long-term preferred vehicle for delivering media. That doesn't mean they are statistically meaningless, but consumers generally trend toward quality stand-alone devices.

Realistically, two years from now, I don't think anyone will care, because with the exception of Sony and Toshiba players, I bet every other one on the market will be dual-format. In that instance, the studios will just select whichever format makes the most economic sense for their specific set of circumstances.


"A politician stumbles over himself... Then they pick it out. They edit it. He runs the clip, and then he makes a funny face, and the whole audience has a Pavlovian response." -- Joe Scarborough on John Stewart over Jim Cramer











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