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Black Friday sales boost HD DVD base to 750,000 strong

With the rapidly falling price of HD DVD players, it’s no surprise that many consumers are finally making the jump to high-definition. Apparently, HD DVD had a strong enough Thanksgiving shopping week to warrant the North American HD DVD Promotional Group to issue a press release announcing a sales milestone.

Thanks to incredible pricing on Toshiba HD DVD players leading up to Black Friday, total sales for HD DVD players in North America have exceeded the 750,000 mark. The data is based on retailer reports and other point of sale data, and includes standalone set-top players as well as the Xbox 360 HD DVD player, said the HD DVD Group.

"HD DVD continues to gain momentum and market share with consumers," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment, and co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group. "With more than four weeks left for holiday shopping, HD DVD is turning out to be a perfect consumer electronics gift."

Prices of HD DVD players started to plummet when retailers such as Wal-Mart, Circuit City and Amazon.com began to sell the Toshiba HD-A2 player for under $200. Wal-Mart upped the ante even further by offering the same player for $98.87 during an in-store special secret sale. Best Buy matched the sale and went the extra mile and offered the newer HD-A3 in place of sold out HD-A2 sales.

While the HD DVD Promotional Group isn’t releasing specific sales information just yet on its Black Friday performance, it’s known that Toshiba sold 90,000 HD DVD players during the first week of November thanks to the new low prices.

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The rest of the story
By tallcool1 on 11/28/2007 9:00:41 AM , Rating: 3
I read this yesterday at tgdaily.com.
tgdaily article concludes with:
quote:
According to the HD DVD Promotional Group, standalone players have outsold standalone Blu-ray devices, which excludes the Playstation 3. The Digital Entertainment Group agrees, reporting that standalone Blu-ray player sales have not even reached 200,000 units yet. However, when the PS3 is factored in, Blu-ray dwarfs its competitor.

According to the Financial Times, PS3 lifetime sales have reached 3.7 million units. This has led to Blu-ray movies consistently outselling HD DVD titles, usually at a monthly rate of two-to-one.




RE: The rest of the story
By Chaser on 11/28/2007 9:08:06 AM , Rating: 2
At this point I think a substancially cheaper standalone BR player would pretty much close this deal. One that would be cheaper than the entry level PS3, around $250.00? Just a thought.


RE: The rest of the story
By iFX on 11/28/2007 9:19:56 AM , Rating: 1
If Blue-Ray is outselling HD-DVD 2 to 1 they need a cheap stand alone player fast to put the nail in the coffin. If they were to offer one for $99 like HD-DVD has then more people would pick them up.

Personally I don't care who "wins" or why one is better than the other (because I tend to think regular DVD is just fine). But I won't spend a penny upgrading until one format "wins".


RE: The rest of the story
By Chaser on 11/28/2007 9:35:05 AM , Rating: 2
Nor do I. I could care less about brands, names, manufacturers or whatever. The highest capacity is the only factor to me.


RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 9:41:09 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The highest capacity is the only factor to me.

Thats really kind of a moot point seeing as how it doesn't really matter whether you can fit 10, 20, 30 ,50 etc GB on a disc, when all they have to do is add more layers.

So something like the storage space argument, that really has no bearing on the high definition quality of the video and audio, should be the least of your concerns.


RE: The rest of the story
By bplewis24 on 11/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 9:58:23 AM , Rating: 4
And the cost of producing sony's BD-DVD is greater than producing the HD-DVD. But what you guys are saying is that price doesn't matter, its the storage capacity you get.

But now, you turn around and say the storage is what matters, because its more expensive to create layers?

Pick a side, it doesnt really matter because its a moot point argument - that only plays a definitive role in the PC storage industry. When you are using them for High Defintion video & audio content to be played in a DVD player - the storage capacity has proven not to matter because the movie quality is still the same.


RE: The rest of the story
By bplewis24 on 11/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: The rest of the story
By blaster5k on 11/28/2007 11:52:20 AM , Rating: 5
Sure, you might be able to get lossless audio in there more easily, but is that something you're really going to notice while watching a movie? DD+ already offers 7.1 sound with less compression than DD5.1 and DTS. And does a slightly better video compression rate really have a big impact on quality? The rate is already high enough with more efficient codecs like VC-1.

Consumer Reports recently tested a bunch of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players and came to the conclusion that they were basically the same in terms of perceivable quality. This would imply that storage capacity is a moot point -- as far as video quality is concerned.

Extra space might make it possible to fit more TV episodes per disk or avoid splitting long movies in some cases. It might be beneficial to people backing up data, though a triple layer HD-DVD may be more cost-effective still than a dual layer Blu-Ray disc -- hard to say at this point.

I think it boils down to cost though. Blu-Ray is a more radical departure from DVD and carries a higher cost. Are the benefits worth that extra cost? That's the real question I think.


RE: The rest of the story
By bplewis24 on 11/28/2007 2:31:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sure, you might be able to get lossless audio in there more easily, but is that something you're really going to notice while watching a movie? DD+ already offers 7.1 sound with less compression than DD5.1 and DTS. And does a slightly better video compression rate really have a big impact on quality?


Unquestionably, yes.

And I love how people keep quoting this Consumer Reports study that said the players were "basically the same" even though the average rating was 87 for Blu-ray players and 81 for HD DVD players. Yes, that is basically the same isn't it? The spin on that article has been tremendous.

Brandon


RE: The rest of the story
By DrKlahn on 11/28/2007 3:00:30 PM , Rating: 2
Unquestionably false. Neither VC-1 nor MPEG4 AVC need compression rates exceeding that available to HD DVD.


RE: The rest of the story
By Locutus465 on 11/28/2007 3:13:19 PM , Rating: 2
Of course a good studio will always try to include a Dolby TrueHD track which is every bit as good as PCM. Paramount is finally doing this with the Star Trek Season 1 discs, Warner has been doing this for a long time now. Dolbe Digital + is alright, but TrueHD is preferable and really there's no reason in the world why an HD-DVD disc should exclude it (other than old remastered films originally dubbed in mono or stereo).


RE: The rest of the story
By rockyct on 11/29/2007 6:58:28 AM , Rating: 2
Cost is only an issue when buying the player. The cost of the Blu-ray disks vs. HD-DVDs are basically the same to consumers. Blu-ray disks may cost a little more to make, but they don't really charge more for them.


RE: The rest of the story
By DigitalFreak on 11/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: The rest of the story
By Moishe on 11/28/2007 10:01:02 AM , Rating: 4
Capacity is not everything. If it were and if price was no object like Sony seems to think, they they could just sell ultra high super-duper definition movies on 1TB Seagate drives.

If any HD movie and it's extras can fit on both HD-DVD and BRD than the larger capacity of BRD is pointless precisely because movies is what we're talking about here.

If we were talking about the amazing new data storage media, BRD would win but movies are defining this format war, NOT storage.

For every techie who cares about storage size, you will find 1 million regular consumers who don't know (or care) and just want to watch the movie.

As a techie myself, I ceased caring about optical media a long time ago and I simply use hard drives now. 50GB on an optical disc makes no difference to me.


RE: The rest of the story
By BansheeX on 11/29/2007 12:02:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If it were and if price was no object like Sony seems to think


BRA is steadily dropping prices to maintain a for-profit model. Toshiba can firesell for a day at $100 and give you the perception of a more "consumer-friendly" format. It is inherently less costly to manufacture HD-DVD, but I challenge your contention that BR's storage capacity has no benefits over HD-DVD for movies. HD-DVD is already running into disc space issues as studios are having to choose between lossless audio and bonus material, even on the flagship transformers release. Only a minority of releases feature better audio tracks than their DVD counterparts. If you're going to invest $1000 into upgrading all your DVDs, wouldn't you want to spend that extra $100 on a blu-ray player? If you consider yourself average and don't know or don't care, then why wouldn't you just buy regular DVD to begin with? It doesn't make sense to go halfway on next-gen for petty and short-term cost discrepancies. Have patience and support blu-ray.


RE: The rest of the story
By blaster5k on 11/29/2007 9:21:16 AM , Rating: 2
It's not true that a minority of releases have higher audio quality than DVD. Every HD-DVD release uses at least Dolby Digital Plus, which is a higher quality audio encoding than DD5.1 and DTS, which are used on DVDs. It has a higher bitrate and 7.1 channel sound. Many titles offer lossless audio as well.

For the cost of buying a Blu-Ray player now, I can buy an HD-DVD player instead and then a new Blu-Ray player in a couple years when its price finally comes down. Maybe Blu-Ray players will even support internet connectivity and other HD-DVD features by then. And maybe more of the releases will be updated to not use MPEG2 and single layer discs.


RE: The rest of the story
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2007 9:50:18 AM , Rating: 2
So I could sell you a player that offers the ability to play 500GB discs even if it had no movies available for it? Your comment makes you look quite dumb unless you were referring to hard drives.

For movies, the 30GB of HD-DVD is more than enough.


RE: The rest of the story
By bplewis24 on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By AlphaVirus on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 10:51:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The fact that Blu Ray Discs hold more than HD DVD is a big factor in the movie industry.

I dont see that as holding true, and you'll be hard pressed to make any solid case in court with that statement. If that were true, then all studios would offer their movies in BD.

quote:
Oh and the price factor, here is something that might help a few.

How is this anything special? An internal BD bare drive for $200, when you can already use the external 360 drive for PC for $160? Or how about the fact that there is already a $299 BD + HD internal bare drive on the market being sold by newegg.


RE: The rest of the story
By therealnickdanger on 11/28/2007 10:52:08 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The fact that Blu Ray Discs hold more than HD DVD is a big factor in the movie industry.

Yeah, it means so much that most movies don't use the extra space and the ones that do use it look no better than the best HD-DVDs. *sigh*


RE: The rest of the story
By DigitalFreak on 11/28/2007 2:08:51 PM , Rating: 1
You are still a poo-poo head


RE: The rest of the story
By Chaser on 11/28/2007 10:40:31 AM , Rating: 2
This is most definitely more than just movies. And I'm sure any techie understands that retail outlets need media to stick in boxes and sell. I seriously doubt internal hard drives are going to be sold pre-labeled and installed with software titles in boxes to go.

And you guys saying 30GB is enough? Can you site any time in the "techie" world when less capacity for the next removable disk media standard which contains high definition movie video, data or commercial software in a retail box, that less is better or "enough"?


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 10:55:21 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Good enough means good enough for beer swilling rednecks with a 32 inch vizio lcd.


And who do you think the market is trying to cater to? Yes, the average redneck citizen with a 32" LCD tv...dumbass.

Its called the "average consumer" for a reason. You dont build marketshare by only catering to people who even know what "lossless audio" is....go bring that phrase up to the average person in bestbuy debating on what kind of dvd player to buy, and see if thinks you are speaking another language....then ask him if hes interested in spending hundreds of dollars more for a product that gives him some kind of techno-geek quality in which he cant even pronounce.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 11:17:44 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
So maybe you can explain to me why I should have to put up with a lesser picture and sound quality and no potential for future improvement for the beer swilling redneck to save $100 on his player?

For one simple reason - the world does not cater to YOU. The industry caters to its target audience. Its about making money, not pleasing SavagePotatohead. Sure they will have top line high definition DVD players available, but they will not be targeted towards the mainstream audience. Its the same as going to the local electronics store (bestbuy, circuit city) and the average person buying a computer. They buy a budget computer ... not one with an 8800GTX graphics card. But now what - are you going to complain that every computer should come with an 8800GTX graphics card because its hindering your ability to have the best graphics available because the average consumer doesnt want to spend as much for what could be available as top of the line?

quote:
I can't see any good reason. Given time blu ray will have extremely cheap players same as hd-dvd will. What I don't get is intelligent people supporting bottom of the barrel just because they have a fear of sony.

First off, this has nothing at all to do with Sony...because there are just as many people with a hatred of Microsoft (which has some ties to HD-DVD). What it has to do with is price - because that is what determines the market for the average consumer. It works that way in cars, electronics, everything. There is always something out that can be bigger and better...but the point is that people do not want to pay for that...even if it will eventually come down in price, because by the time it does, something else new will be out. You are acting like the purchasing home electronics is like making an investment - let me tell you the truth, its NOT. Its like buying a care - its always going to lose its luster when something new, bigger, and better comes out.

Also, the average consumer knows better than to buy the most expensive product, especially right when it comes out because everything drops in price. So as the BD players drop in price, so do the HD players. So which do you think is more appealing to the average consumer?

Its obvious that you are a sony fanboy - but back before you time, there was this thing called Betamax. Trust me when i tell you that many people older than you, in their 40's, 50's, etc bought those betamax's because it did offer better quality, and needless to say, they got stuck with expensive paperweights. Sony's reputation for being overpriced, and trying to gain the exclusive marketshare isnt somthing that has jsut started recently...consumers like your parents have gone through it with them too.

quote:
It's a sad sad thing to see people push for second best technology out of either sheer cheapness or pure hate for a corporate entity. I personally would be very disappointed to be subjected to having someone choose the lowest common denominator for me by ensuring a sub par product like hd-dvd won out.

What you dont understand is that the average person out there isnt trying to prove anythign to anyone. they dont feel the need to have THE BEST of everything. they just want something thats nice, works, and is cheaper in cost so that it leaves more money in their bank accounts. The average person could care less about 1080i vs 1080p, lossless audio, 30gb vs 50gb, 256 vs 512mb video cards, etc. Let it sink into your head - average people dont care! Its all about having something thats better than what they currently, at a price that they deem affordable. Thats it, bottom line.

What you need to sit down and think about is the fact that you are not in the "average consumer" portion because you are an electronics geek. Most people are not. This is one of those cases when you are the minority, and you are not the primary target audience to make the decision of which direction the product goes.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 11:53:00 AM , Rating: 4
So basically your screaming like a little kid in the store when his parents tell him they will not buy the overpriced toy.

Yes you fail to comment on anything of the answers I gave to your stupid questions.

Nice to see that you feel you know how to spends everyone elses money wisely, and that you feel your intelligence is enough to make everyones decision for them.

You obviously are a little boy who's supported fully by his parents dollar (or loony in this case).

Here's in hopes that maybe Canada will realize what a mistake they made when you weren't elected Prime Minister, and get Tim Horton...I mean Stephen Harper out of office to be replaced by Mr. Potato Head.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 12:07:02 PM , Rating: 3
There ya go. Thats typical. Get feisty when you run out of arguments because your point will never be valid. If you really wanted to convince people that drinking the Kool-Aid is a good thing, then perhaps you should go find a crop of idiots who will listen to everything you say, without questioning it.

Also, dont start with the personal name calling crap - as i recall it, you were the one accusing every HD-DVD owner of being a "beer chugging redneck" or something of that sort. Which is somewhat of a paradox considering you are from the country with some of the most remote, bare, redneck lands in North America.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 12:24:17 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
You are exactly what you accuse me of being, an angry ranting little fanboy. I have no surprise since dailytech is the unofficial home of the hd-dvd fanboy congregation.

I find it quite humorous that you call me a fanboy - because as of right now, i dont even own a standard DVD player. Also, DT is not a congregation of ProHD-DVD people. Its a congregation of people in which their is no majority of fanboyism for Sony or MS - therefore you are not going to get everyone to agree to everything when you mention Sony as you would on your PS3 forums.

quote:
Lying to yourself about somethings superiority because the players are $100 cheaper on the other hand I don't understand.

No one is lying about the superiority anymore than you are lying about the superiority because the Sony is $100 more.

quote:
In the long run both will be dirt cheap, just as DVD is dirt cheap. Knowing that, I chose the format with superior specs and more to offer in the long run.

In the long run, both will be cheaper , but not equally cheap. its taken 10+ yrs for DVD's to be such commonplace, and Sony is still more expensive than the average DVD player is. In fact, a standard Sony DVD player is still more expensive than a Toshiba upconverting DVD player that also plays Divx. Hows that for lack of superiority & price?


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 12:53:23 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Sony branded electronics are always more costly. Sony is not the sole manufacturer of blu ray players. There will be plenty of cheap off brand blu ray players in the future as well.

The point of Sony not being the only manufacturer is not the issue - its that Sony owns the licensing rights, and each other manufacturer has to pay Sony royalties if they want to be in the BD business. That amounts to higher prices - not because you are getting a better product for your money, because you are just depositing more money into Sony's pocket for licensing.

quote:
What will the difference amount to then? a $150 player versus a $100 player? will you still scream about the $50 then like $100 now?

Well it obviously does make a difference, now doesnt it? HD-DVD will have bottom of the barrel dvd players too that are half the cost of Toshiba HD-DVD players, and yes they will sell. THey will do the same thing as most of the more expensive ones - but you pay for the brand name and reliability. Many people buy the $30 DVD players today because they are seen as disposable items, that are easily replaced. Expensive electronics are not popular due to the relibabilty and having to pay to buy another.

Ive never seen a cheapo dvd player that would not play store bought DVD movies. I have a feeling you're pissed that a cheapo DVD player wont play burned copies, or divx movies, or something like that. And that's to be expected.

You really arent making any valid points for the BD camp. All your saying is that "spending another $50 - 100 isnt that much". No, $50 isnt that much, but why spend it for no reason. In case you havent learned by now, pricing plays a huge issue - the PS3 for example. What a blowup that was. "its so much better than the xbox 360 because...." and yet no one cares! Because no one wanted to spend another $200-300 for that little bit extra.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 1:06:56 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
More space, higher bitrate, lossless sound, future expandability to even higher resolutions, more content on a single disc.


All those future scenarios are find and dandy...but I wont pay for something now, that we may or may not need in the future. Also, all those things that you just stated are in result to the extra (currently unneeded) space on the disc correct? So that triple layer 51GB HD disc that is available would not serve that purpose if needed? And increasing the layer sizes on a disc if needed still wont serve the purpose? The point is that if any of that NEEDED to be done, which it currently does NOT, then they could make changes to the disc and it would still play in the HD-DVD Player.

So again, how exactly is the Blue Ray better in quality than the HD-DVD ... or is now that its better because of the future...even though it took years for the regular DVD to catch on.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 1:19:29 PM , Rating: 3
By the time 1600p comes out, BD will be a thing of the past anyway. There is no such thing as trying to "future proof" yourself in electronics...and thats why people dont want to pay more today, for tomorrow.

Computers, DVD players, Stereo's, etc....everything's life expectancy is decreasing...and people are now just getting worried that they ahve to make the switch to digital tv from analog. Do you really think the average person gives two craps about 1080i, 1080p.....much less 1600p? DO you think the average person even knows what the 480, 720, 180 numbers are and what bitrates even are? Cmon man, open your eyes to the real world....not the geek-dom you call your home.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 1:30:14 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, more power to you. Thats the freedom of choice, and its die-hards like you that keep Sony in business for overcharging with marketing gimmicks.

But hey, as you said, thats American Capitalism...and its also people like that you are driving down the prices of the products that are actually worth the dollar being spent on them....even if you dont consider the average American consumer a smart person.

But then again, we dont call our dollar a "loonie". Go figure.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: The rest of the story
By bplewis24 on 11/28/2007 2:45:08 PM , Rating: 2
Please stop spreading misinformation and FUD. I know you will still not be rated down for it because everybody here wants to believe it's true, but information that is factually incorrect should not be promoted on a site such as this.

Brandon


RE: The rest of the story
By BansheeX on 11/29/2007 1:02:48 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, that's a good idea, wait for 51gb HD-DVD discs, buy a new player to support them, double dip on all your currently owned discs for lossless audio ones... that's sounds like a fun future and great justification for saving $100 on a player. How about you support the people who got it right the first time for your money instead of this perpetual revisionist milk-me-to-death crap. Jesus H Christ.


RE: The rest of the story
By bplewis24 on 11/28/2007 2:38:21 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Also, DT is not a congregation of ProHD-DVD people. Its a congregation of people in which their is no majority of fanboyism for Sony or MS


I hope you were saying that tongue-in-cheek and don't actually believe that.

Brandon


RE: The rest of the story
By BansheeX on 11/28/2007 11:46:11 PM , Rating: 2
$100 vs $200 player price... whoopity doo when forty movies at $20 a pop is $800. That's where most of your money is going to go, the movies. So yeah, you'll really save a lot of money there with HD-DVD, and get no audio upgrade over standard DVDs to boot. Sounds like the better investment for sure?


RE: The rest of the story
By DigitalFreak on 11/28/2007 2:11:18 PM , Rating: 2
You just replied to yourself, dickweed


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 2:26:58 PM , Rating: 1
Have some kind of a tourettes problem? thanks so much for your valuable contribution to the conversation.


RE: The rest of the story
By blaster5k on 11/28/2007 12:06:07 PM , Rating: 3
I'm not understanding how HD-DVD is subpar. The perceivable video quality is basically the same with both formats. The HD-DVD players have more features in some ways (ie. internet connection, picture in picture commentary). If you're thinking it's subpar because the lower end players output 1080i, you've got to be kidding me. That gets deinterlaced just fine on 1080p displays and you don't lose any quality.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: The rest of the story
By retrospooty on 11/28/2007 1:09:55 PM , Rating: 3
Relax man, its not all that big of a deal.

In the end, we all know that BR is technically superior, but is it worth it to most people? not if it remains double the price. For most people it is about watching high def movies. Both play the same movie at the same video quality. BR needs to be as cheap as HD-DVD.

Flash forward maybe 1 year from now. Lets say low end HD-DVD are available for $50, and low end BR are $100. Now, dont think of yourself, think of the 95% of the population that only wants to watch high def movies. They don't care about lossless audio (most people cant tell the difference) They don't care about extra storage, they want to watch movies in high def.

What do you think they will buy? A $50 player or a $100 player? The answer is easy, the cheap one wins.

If Sony and the BRG want to win they will absolutely HAVE to lower prices to match (again, not for you, or audiophiles or tech junkies, but for average consumers that are 95% of the purchasing market). PS/3 gave and early head start but in the end it will be the cheap player that wins the format war.


RE: The rest of the story
By mcnabney on 11/28/2007 12:14:18 PM , Rating: 2
That rant is rating higher than yours


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 12:17:41 PM , Rating: 3
Ratings are meaningless on what amounts to an HD-DVD fansite. You could write the most eloquent post in the history of the internet, but if it's pro blu-ray, it gets rated down on dailytech, simple as that.


RE: The rest of the story
By Spuke on 11/28/2007 12:37:57 PM , Rating: 2
Nope. Most of the BR arguments are rated down because many don't make much logical sense and fail to incorporate reality. That reality is that Joe Six Pack (J6P), the representative of the marketplace, is what determines the market, not the geek. If one of you would recognize that factoid, your posts would not get rated down.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 12:45:31 PM , Rating: 2
Nope right back at you. It is an established fact that hd-dvd fanboys dominate this forum almost entirely.

Cheering on the marketplace for a poorer product winning out doesn't make sense to me. I guess thats good old american capitalism at work.


RE: The rest of the story
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 1:01:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I guess thats good old american capitalism at work.

Yes it is. Supply & Demand. Price & Cost. Need & Want. Majority & Minority. They really are simple economic principals. Just because you dont understand them, or like them, doesn't make them any less real. Capitalism works because then we dont have people like you shoving overpriced products down our throats that we dont need and not giving us the option for something else....Communist at its best.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 1:42:09 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah it's working well, thats why your dollar is in the toilet.


RE: The rest of the story
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2007 2:22:59 PM , Rating: 2
Holy shit this is hilarious. I'm with you mdog.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 2:34:13 PM , Rating: 1
Hey theres one of those redneck beer swilling walmart customers now.


RE: The rest of the story
By FITCamaro on 11/29/2007 9:25:08 AM , Rating: 2
Hey. There's one of those liberal pussies who think we all need to think like they do now.

I never shop at Walmart. Ever. I have one right next to me. I go out of my way not to shop there.

And beer sucks. I don't drink anything that's under 60 Proof. So thats rum, tequila, vodka, etc.


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/29/2007 9:34:29 AM , Rating: 2
You Americans are funny. The world boils down into two categories for you. Capatalist conservative American = good, rest of the world = bad.

Actualy the last time I bothered to vote I voted conservative. I don't bother now because elections are a farce, choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

I think maybe next time I'll vote for the green party, if you are going to throw votes away may as well do it with style.

John Wayne must be so proud of you. Rum tequila and vodka oh my. Such a manly man.


RE: The rest of the story
By slacker57 on 11/28/2007 1:47:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nope right back at you. It is an established fact that hd-dvd fanboys dominate this forum almost entirely.


Oh, yeah?! Well, your momma is an HD-DVD fanboy! :P

Seriously, though, I think the first couple exchanges were a worthwhile discussion, but the last 20 or so needed to have been left on the grade school playground.


RE: The rest of the story
By Spuke on 11/28/2007 4:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nope right back at you. It is an established fact that hd-dvd fanboys dominate this forum almost entirely.
Show me some statistics that back up these claims. If you can't, then it's just your opinion. BTW, constantly repeating your opinion doesn't make it a fact.


RE: The rest of the story
By SirLucius on 11/28/2007 4:22:41 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Show me some statistics that back up these claims. If you can't, then it's just your opinion. BTW, constantly repeating your opinion doesn't make it a fact.


C'mon, like we all keep stats on the percentage of posts supporting HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray or putting down HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. All you have to do is read the comments for HD-DVD/Blu-ray articles here to see. The majority of DT readers are in favor of HD-DVD while some are just anti-Sony anything. Read through the comments on this article alone to see. If somebody says something remotely anti-HD-DVD they get pounced upon.

Almost every article related to Sony has at least one post belittling Sony, no matter whether what they did was good or bad. It's really getting rather old.


RE: The rest of the story
By Locutus465 on 11/28/2007 4:43:20 PM , Rating: 2
Not everyone that supports/prefers HD-DVD to Bluray is a "fan boy" just so ya knows... For instance I personally greatly perfer HD-DVD because toshiba has ensured that there is a line of HD-DVD products that are affordable to me (while also offering higher end products for total enthusiests as well).

If BD group was able to come out with a player approching the pricing of what I can get out of HD-DVD format I would start contemplating picking one up. Until that happens, I'm pro-hd dvd. I'm guessing you'll find this is true for most HD-DVD supporters. We're frugle, we see a product that offers the same HD quality as BD at a significantly better price point.


RE: The rest of the story
By Spuke on 11/28/2007 5:26:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
All you have to do is read the comments for HD-DVD/Blu-ray articles here to see.
Right. Your opinion, his opinion, none of it is fact. Perception is NOT reality and unless you have those statistics, it's just opinion.

Let me tell you a secret. If Walmart sold Bluray players for $98 on that particular Friday, I would've bought that instead. I really don't care which one wins, as long as I don't have to pay out the butthole for it. And right now Bluray = too expensive for me. Also, Bluray = too expensive for the marketplace (Joe Common Bubba).


RE: The rest of the story
By SirLucius on 11/28/2007 5:37:03 PM , Rating: 2
So you are seriously saying that the majority of people that comment on articles relating to Blu-ray/HD-DVD do not own/support/want HD-DVD to win the format war?


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 8:14:20 PM , Rating: 1
Take a look around. Better yet go try making a pro blu-ray post and see what happens to it then come back and tell me about what an enlightened and objective group of individuals populate this forum.

It is as hd-dvd biased as it gets. Every single article on the subject unleashes a torrent of anti bluray hate, you don't have to go far, just read this thread. If you can't see it you are blind.


RE: The rest of the story
By retrospooty on 11/28/2007 1:11:02 PM , Rating: 2
"Nope. Most of the BR arguments are rated down because many don't make much logical sense and fail to incorporate reality. That reality is that Joe Six Pack (J6P), the representative of the marketplace, is what determines the market, not the geek. If one of you would recognize that factoid, your posts would not get rated down."

True to a large extent. I wish I hadn't already posted so I could rate you up now- LOL


RE: The rest of the story
By SirLucius on 11/28/2007 2:35:36 PM , Rating: 2
So what I've gathered from the pro HD-DVD side of things is that HD-DVD should win the format war because despite being inferior to Blu-ray technically speaking, the majority of people (who don't really know what they're buying) are cheap and don't want to pay for the more advanced tech.

Mmkay...


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 2:54:40 PM , Rating: 1
That is only the perpetuated lie by those that support it so vehemently. You don't fight tooth and nail to support something sub par because you simply like to cheer for the underdog. The people that get frothing mad about hd-dvd support it because they hate sony, fear sony, and think that all of a sudden if hd-dvd were to disapear, sony would give this big muahaha laugh and proclaim blu ray discs are now $100 each.

It is the only way to explain the lunacy behind actively cheering for something that offers far less.


RE: The rest of the story
By Locutus465 on 11/28/2007 4:45:51 PM , Rating: 2
Could you explain "Technically Inferior" to me? How does Blu ray offer a supperior HT experience? I mean other than not offering as wide range of possible Speacial Features options (forget about trying to implement to SF package that comes with the HD-DVD Harry Potter and the order of the phonix any time soon, you need profile 2.0, that's a fact!)


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/28/2007 8:18:38 PM , Rating: 1
Could you read the specs yourself and try to comprehend them? The fact that you would even argue them based on "I like the special features better" shows the exact blinders on hd-dvd worship thats so rediculous.

Who cares about a better bitrate, better sound, all that jazz the special features are where it's at, yeah.


RE: The rest of the story
By Locutus465 on 11/29/2007 12:20:55 AM , Rating: 2
Technically speaking, how does higher bit rate equal better anything automatically? Let's compare Dinasours (PCM audio) to Transformers audio (Dolby Digital+), which one would you say is better? Turns out highdefdigest.com liked Transformers better, hmmm, wow... And video, obviously you absolutly need a high bitrate video in order to get good quality right? I mean seriously, unless you have super OMG mega pumped bitrate you don't get real HD right? Except TMNT is encoded at an extreamly low bitrate and has razer sharp video quality, one of the best transfers in my collections in fact, demo quality over all.

So, here's an education for you, conviniently it's called "specs v. reality". In reality "high bitrate" and "PCM" (v. TrueHD) is meaningless... An integrated NIC is useful on so many levels it's not even funny! Auto updates for instance! Nifty speacial features! http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zybe...


RE: The rest of the story
By SavagePotato on 11/29/2007 9:26:36 AM , Rating: 2
If you need someone to explain that a higher bitrate is better to you then you have your blinders firmly on. Like every other hd-dvd fanboy.

I'll take a pass on reading the links to your hd-dvd sunshine up the ass pumping less is better articles too.

As to the integrated nic and special features, i have an integrated nic, on my ps3. As to special features, I didn't watch them on DVD I wont watch them on blu ray. It's all just filler, I want to see the movie in the best possible presentation.

Lastly comparing a cartoons quality via bit rate is a bit silly. Cartoons look amazing even upconverted on dvd. That's just a fact of life. Go watch the pirates movies and you'll get some idea what an amazing hd presentation is.


RE: The rest of the story
By bplewis24 on 11/28/2007 2:48:58 PM , Rating: 2
This is perposterous. Every one of my comments will always be rated down and it has nothing to do with it beiing illogical or unrealistic. It's merely because it's not a sycophantic support post for HD DVD. Any objective, logical and fact-related post that isn't touting HD DVD as better will be rated down. Look and you'll see. It's rather sickening the mob mentality that causes people to rationalize this phenomenon away, and obviously ruins the credibility of the readers of this site on a daily basis

Brandon