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Wal-Mart's Secret In-Store Specials ad
Wal-Mart to sell HD DVD player for $98 this Friday

Just as the market was getting used to the idea of a sub-$200 HD DVD player, the looming promise of crazy sales for this holiday season has driven high-definition movie hardware at levels never thought possible.

Believe it or not Wal-Mart is advertising that it will sell the Toshiba HD-A2 this Friday for $98.87. The holiday-themed ad calls the sale this Friday the “Secret In-Store Specials.” The Toshiba HD-A2 is asterisked with the notes saying that the product may not be available in all stores and that it will be while quantities last – suggesting that there could be a limited number set aside as a “doorcrasher” item.

The third-generation Toshiba HD-A3 will also be soon selling at $169.99 at Sears during its Black Friday sale, according to blackfriday.info. The player currently sells for $299.99.

Although Blu-ray Disc software is outselling that of HD DVD, the hardware entry price point is clearly in HD DVD’s favor. Retailers sensitive to the pricing of its electronics products appear to be siding with the lower cost of HD DVD machinery.

Wal-Mart was one of the first retailers to reveal its plans to carry Toshiba’s entry-level HD DVD player at $198. Just days after Wal-Mart’s reveal, Circuit City and Amazon.com priced the HD-A2 on their respective websites for $197.99.

Also notable in Wal-Mart's Friday ad is the Sanyo 50-inch plasma HDTV, which will fit nicely as this holiday's most wanted gift. Those looking to jump straight into high-definition content will find quite the bargain with Wal-Mart's TV and HD DVD player combo at the end of this week.


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wouldn't you...
By Gul Westfale on 11/1/2007 8:57:05 AM , Rating: 2
... be pissed if you bought your player 3 months ago for the low low price of 400+ bucks?




RE: wouldn't you...
By Griswold on 11/1/2007 9:08:04 AM , Rating: 2
Can you say "History is repeating itself over and over and over again"?

I learned my lesson way back in the day when DVD was the hottest and most expensive thing on the block. :]


RE: wouldn't you...
By theapparition on 11/2/2007 8:39:11 AM , Rating: 2
There will always be something better around the corner for less money. When do you want to stop waiting?

For me, I stopped waiting last year and bought a HD-XA2 and Pioneer BR-player.
I also bought a HD-A30 last week, for the "low" price of 300. Also went ahead and bought the HD-A2 today for the bedroom. $98, can't go wrong!


RE: wouldn't you...
By MADAOO7 on 11/3/2007 8:03:35 PM , Rating: 2
My god man, what do you need four HD players for? Regardless of how much expendable income you may have, I can't imagine you have four tv's, four surround sound systems, and four sets of sofas to enjoy these purchases.....


RE: wouldn't you...
By theapparition on 11/3/2007 9:10:23 PM , Rating: 2
If you really must know, I have a home theater media room with over 100" screen from a 1080p projector. Both the HD-XA2 and the Pioneer Elite are in that room. The family room TV is a Samsung 71" 1080p DLP, which also gets the most viewing. I opted a week ago to purchase a HD-A30. With the walmart deal, I added one to our bedroom HDTV. In total, we have 6 HDTVs in the house, with DVD players attached to all. I don't think it a stretch in the future for them all to be combo units.


RE: wouldn't you...
By ebakke on 11/4/2007 5:29:29 PM , Rating: 2
sick


RE: wouldn't you...
By Spuke on 11/6/2007 2:23:14 PM , Rating: 2
Nice setup!


RE: wouldn't you...
By tigen on 11/6/2007 6:10:26 PM , Rating: 2
You must really love sitting around watching TVs.


RE: wouldn't you...
By 3kliksphilip on 11/10/2007 3:02:00 PM , Rating: 2
...Well I have a 15" LCD screen with 16 ms response and tinny built in speakers which my parents managed to find for £200. Beat that.


RE: wouldn't you...
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 10:10:44 AM , Rating: 5
Perhaps HD-DVD customers are smarter than iPhone customers and understand the consequences of being an "early adopter"? ;)


RE: wouldn't you...
By Kanti on 11/1/2007 1:31:07 PM , Rating: 5
Not likely.


RE: wouldn't you...
By therealnickdanger on 11/2/2007 8:50:03 AM , Rating: 2
Without early adopters, there would be nothing for the mass market to purchase.


RE: wouldn't you...
By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 5:32:50 PM , Rating: 2
True, but if you want the best value for the dollar then you should not consider being an early adopter should you?


RE: wouldn't you...
By Anh Huynh on 11/1/2007 10:30:04 AM , Rating: 5
I paid $400 back in May for my HD-A2. I also received a $50 Best Buy gift card, 5 free movies instantly in store ($125) and 5 free movies by mail.

Considering the amount of movies I've purchased and able to enjoy since May, the difference doesn't bother me. You can keep waiting, prices will keep dropping, doesn't mean I get any less enjoyment out of it.

No regrets here, since I have like 70 movies.


RE: wouldn't you...
By Gul Westfale on 11/1/2007 11:06:54 AM , Rating: 3
i will keep waiting, for a combo drive for my PC.


RE: wouldn't you...
By mikefarinha on 11/1/2007 12:27:40 PM , Rating: 3
Why wait?
4MB Cache SATA Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner
$299.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...


RE: wouldn't you...
By Gul Westfale on 11/1/2007 3:36:56 PM , Rating: 2
nice find man, i'll definitely look into it! last time i checked at my local store they still had blu-only drives for 600 bucks.


RE: wouldn't you...
By mikefarinha on 11/1/2007 3:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I was surprised when I saw this too.... I think it was just released a day or two ago.


RE: wouldn't you...
By Samus on 11/1/2007 6:33:30 PM , Rating: 2
The LG MultiCombo has been out for a few months. You can find it for $260-$270, look in the AT Forums, people seem to like it.


RE: wouldn't you...
By Anonymous Freak on 11/1/2007 11:43:04 PM , Rating: 2
Those are likely Blu-Ray [i]burners[/i].

This is a Blu-Ray and HD DVD [i]reader[/i] with [i]DVD/CD[/i] burner. It's the new "Combo" drive.

Yeah, Blu-Ray burners are still expensive, and HD DVD burners are vaporware. (Apparently there are a few out there, but I have yet to see one.)


RE: wouldn't you...
By Alexstarfire on 11/1/2007 6:26:14 PM , Rating: 1
Too bad it can't burn. I don't see the point of getting one for my computer if it can't burn. It's not like my computer monitor is bigger than my TV.


RE: wouldn't you...
By Captain Orgazmo on 11/1/2007 8:01:12 PM , Rating: 2
Have you ever heard of connecting your computer to your TV? I have been doing it for years with an old analog TV. Add in a TV tuner card, remote, and XP MCE, or Vista Premium/Ultimate, or some 3rd party program like Beyond TV and you have a great PVR with timeshifting, and as much storage as you want. And now with HDMI built into video cards, it's extremely easy to connect to your HDTV (new ATI cards have HDMI with 5.1 audio built in). So that is the point of getting one (hell, I never bought a standalone DVD player 'til about 2 years ago... better thru the comp.


RE: wouldn't you...
By Gul Westfale on 11/1/2007 8:39:50 PM , Rating: 2
that's what i have been doing for years, except that i watch films on my monitor rather than a TV. a 720p HDTV has a max res of just 1280x720, whereas my monitor's native res is 1680x1050. i'm planning to get a 1920x1200 screen, which would allow me to watch "full HD" without spending $2k on a decent HDTV.

then of course there's the PC's surround sound, and the PVR and storage you mentioned. PCs are an expensive hobby, and so is home theater; but if you combine the two it's not so bad. hopefully we will see some sub-$1k projectors soon.


By hannibal the mechanical bull on 11/6/2007 9:26:59 AM , Rating: 2
I was thinking that too, but at $100, I am rethinking...


RE: wouldn't you...
By masher2 (blog) on 11/1/2007 11:37:32 AM , Rating: 1
I paid $450 for my HD-A2 last November...and that was on top of what I spent for HD-A1 9 months earlier.

Haven't regretted either purchase. Life's too short to wait for the mass market to catch up.


RE: wouldn't you...
By timmiser on 11/1/2007 12:35:31 PM , Rating: 2
Amen bro!


RE: wouldn't you...
By Zirconium on 11/1/2007 3:26:29 PM , Rating: 2
One could also say life's too short to be spent watching movies at home. It is all a matter of priorities. If you feel that watching movies, playing video games, etc., are the things you really want to be doing, then it is worth it to spend $$$ on the newest gadgets.

However, most people, I'd venture most even on this tech-savvy forum, have better things to spend their money on and wouldn't mind waiting a year or two before jumping on the latest and greatest digital bandwagon. After all, DVDs still play movies fine for me, and while the new stuff does have higher resolution and better quality sound, I won't really know what I'm missing until I actually buy the product, and until then, I'm satisfied with what I've got.

Again, I'm not knocking people who spend a lot of money on these things. Go ahead, I need people like you to be "early adopters" and drive the prices down for me for when I actually care to buy the new thing. But I find it amusing and mildly irritating that so many "early adopters" like to pressure others to spend the cash along with them.


RE: wouldn't you...
By myocardia on 11/1/2007 9:43:22 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Go ahead, I need people like you to be "early adopters" and drive the prices down for me for when I actually care to buy the new thing. But I find it amusing and mildly irritating that so many "early adopters" like to pressure


I've gotta say, if $98 is too expensive for you, just keep waiting. I'm willing to bet that one of these days, they'll be on sale for $97.95.


RE: wouldn't you...
By msheredy on 11/2/2007 5:39:02 PM , Rating: 1
It's so damn funny, you people are probably the same ones who were bashing Apple for their huge price cut on their iPhone [even though they offered a 100.00 store credit]. But somehow you find this acceptable. F-ing hypocrites.


RE: wouldn't you...
By timmiser on 11/1/2007 5:20:29 PM , Rating: 2
I think that most people who have purchased either format player realize the price will be eventually dropping below $100. That is part of the decision and acceptance of an early adopter.


new borns
By wordsworm on 11/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: new borns
By BMFPitt on 11/1/2007 8:50:56 AM , Rating: 2
I'm planning to swing by around 7:30 and see if there's a big line. I give myself 20:1 odds, but it's worth a shot.

If not, I still expect to get a good (maybe not this good) deal on one sometime in the next 60 days.


RE: new borns
By BMFPitt on 11/2/2007 8:17:02 AM , Rating: 2
Walked into the WalMart in Mays Landing, NJ at 7:45 and there will still about 20 on the shelf. I wish I would have brought my fiancee with me and let her be late to work so we could get 2.


RE: new borns
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/2/2007 8:37:45 AM , Rating: 2
They had no such limit here in Northern Virginia. I walked in, grabbed one for my old man, but other guys were grabbing 2 and 3 and rolling lol. Sold out in 5 minutes all 30ish players that were on hand.


RE: new borns
By SilthDraeth on 11/1/2007 10:03:58 AM , Rating: 2
I honestly do not know if Marcus changed his article after you posted, but he clearly stated the fine print in the article.

Now this may not be the case this time, but people read the subject line, look at the picture and start making comments, or statements that are already addressed in the article.


RE: new borns
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 10:11:22 AM , Rating: 2
who cares, I'm camping out at walmart tonight... already have an x-box hd-dvd drive, but I'm going to ebay it if I can get one of these!


RE: new borns
By bighairycamel on 11/1/2007 11:22:22 AM , Rating: 3
Save yourself the effort. Ever heard of price matching? I've already printed the add and tomorrow if walmart doesnt have one I'll be swinging by a few other merchants who I know honor price matching.


RE: new borns
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 11:34:20 AM , Rating: 2
A lot of times they'll only match a "regularly advertiesed price", i.e. they might not match this speacial..


RE: new borns
By BansheeX on 11/1/2007 12:01:56 PM , Rating: 3
They are not likely to match something not in stock.


RE: new borns
By bighairycamel on 11/1/2007 12:10:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A lot of times they'll only match a "regularly advertiesed price", i.e. they might not match this speacial..

You're correct but I know which ones are like that and which aren't. One local store here specifically says they will match "any advertised price".

quote:
They are not likely to match something not in stock.

How would they even know what another store's stock level is? As long as you play it smart, show them the add and say you want a price match it should be honored if it's the store's policy.


RE: new borns
By BansheeX on 11/1/2007 12:29:26 PM , Rating: 2
How would they know? Here's how it plays out. You try to make the pricematch and the manager is called upon. At that point, he's already well aware of it because of the million other people who have tried. Even if he isn't, the price is suspicious enough to warrant his approval. Not wanting to make half as much money on a limited stock player that will still sell out at $200, he will offer to call any local Wal-Mart for a stock check because he is intelligent enough to assume that they are sold out at such a low price. There goes your pricematch, and for as few HD-DVD players actually getting sold in this deal, HD-DVD and Wal-Mart both win with all the buzz surrounding it. Welcome to reality.


RE: new borns
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 12:57:47 PM , Rating: 2
My experience in general has been that they don't bother verifying the instockness of it, at least it's never happend to me. I'm not going to pretend like it'll never happen, but it's not an absolute either... Still, I think the best bet is to hit up walmart before work (or school if you're still in school) tomorrow like me and try to pick one of these bad boys up :)


RE: new borns
By SunAngel on 11/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: new borns
By yost007 on 11/2/2007 12:15:27 PM , Rating: 2
SunAngel=Forum Troll

Proof- Average comment rating of .32

Go Away


RE: new borns
By Alias1431 on 11/2/2007 3:03:32 AM , Rating: 2
This is true. I work at Fry's Electronics, and we make it a point to call and verify price and availability. We do not match special sales either, especially Black Friday ads, this Wal-mart ad included.


RE: new borns
By aos007 on 11/2/2007 3:45:04 AM , Rating: 2
In Canada they do that too. Even for a 2 buck difference, such as price-matching a blu ray disc, they will still waste 10 minutes of their time (I waited even more than that once!) calling the other store (incidentally owned by the same chain). Price match is a powerful tool but you need to use it wisely.


RE: new borns
By earthaziel on 11/1/2007 12:44:58 PM , Rating: 2
Good luck finding it. The HD-A2 went clearance at most retailers months ago. Why do you think Wal-mart is very happy to drop the price this low? Because they know you can't price match it anywhere else as everyone else sold out of those players a month ago. Have fun trying to find one who hasn't :-)


RE: new borns
By JarvisTheGray on 11/1/2007 3:30:46 PM , Rating: 2
I thought they over produced these things in abundance?


RE: new borns
By SunAngel on 11/1/2007 6:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
They did.

How else do you explain a $500 item release in November 2007 (less than a year todate) being sold at over an 80% discount at some many places?

I really can't believe you'd be so foolish to believe Toshiba would lose so much money just to trump Blu-ray. It just doesn't make sense.

Are you saying Toshiba was milking the market all year long? Are you saying Toshiba would rather just hold stock of an item until it sales at the price they prefer? Are you saying retailers are dumb and want to tie of money in lament inventory? Are you saying ...? Are you saying ...?


RE: new borns
By EstoyLoco on 11/2/2007 2:26:46 AM , Rating: 3
You mean Nov 2006?

Maybe because the player is a year old, and if you noticed all the new HD disc player devices are on a year refresh.
The 2008 versions A3 etc. are already out.

You don't see Car manufacturers selling last year's model at full price do you?


RE: new borns
By wordsworm on 11/5/2007 10:53:33 PM , Rating: 2
400:100=4:1 ratio on the HD DVD. SLK Mercedes about 60,000 on 4:1 would be about $25,000 for the 2007 model.

The big question I have is whether or not these prices will hold until Christmas. My guess is 'no'. However, it seems that I was way off when I predicted that this $99 sale was just a gimmick. It seems a lot of retailers are doing a quick dump. Blu-Ray had better do something or else it will quickly fade into the realm of the esoteric, like records that play movies.


RE: new borns
By Procurion on 11/6/2007 11:29:56 AM , Rating: 2
Have you ever seen how many "last year's model" are literally buldozed to little pieces? They have no use for last years' model...if they can get 25 cents on the dollar, they're ahead


RE: new borns
By mezman on 11/2/2007 2:59:16 PM , Rating: 1
I showed up at about 8:30 this morning. The Wal-Mart folks brought out a second cart full of them. I bought two. One for me and one to give at Christmas. No problems at all except that they limited it to one player per customer, so I had to take the first one out to my truck before coming back into the store to buy the second one. Oh well, that's a small hoop to jump though for a cheap HD-DVD player.


By timmiser on 11/1/2007 1:07:27 PM , Rating: 3
This is definately a sign that the HD-DVD camp is on the offensive and are now pulling out all the stops to bury the Blu-Ray format. If Blu-Ray doesn't come back with their own salvo of price cuts, (below $200) I think HD-DVD will take the lead in the format war by the end of this holiday season.

We can rest assured that HD-DVD will again be under $100 or even further under $100 for black friday and maybe for good in 2008.




By Chaser on 11/2/2007 10:33:42 AM , Rating: 1
No its a sign that the Blue Ray "camp" could really care less about pushing bargain basement players right now. Maybe because most people interested in shopping this format aren't going out and looking for a $250.00 HDTV and a $95.00 HTIB to match their $100.00 HD DVD they waited in line for?

For now many people that are considering the plunge into a home High Def movie experience aren't baseing their decision on being able to save every single penny out of the deal. For them a DVD player will probably meet their needs for some time.

Blue Ray players AND disk sales are noticeably higher. Why is that? The HD DVD players have been cheaper right? Someone mentioned about early adopters. The people spending $3000 - $4500 for a complete home theatre system or have spent that already really could care less about saving $200.00 for a specification wise lesser product as told to them by the average salesman at Best Buy and the websites they go to to do their own research.

Basically those that think a High Def experience is important for them aren't trying to clip coupons at Walmart. Sorry.


By Moishe on 11/2/2007 11:26:37 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
...or have spent that already really could care less about saving $200.00 for a specification wise lesser product...

I am exactly that person and I say you're wrong.

I think about in terms of dollars per unit of time used.
$100 for one year's worth of use is worth it (for me, barely).
$400 for 1-2 year's worth of use is not (for me).
I want a (relative) guarantee that when I pay good money for something I will be able to use that item for awhile.

I am perfectly willing to spend good money on good equipment, BUT the format war changes the value of the product. By the way, this HD-A2 is a decent part made by a decent company, so the quality is not in question.

I've invested some money on a home theater. The parts I spend money on are things that I can depend on. I know that my projector will be worth keeping for years because I know that nothing else is going to make it obsolete within the time period I will use it. By the time it's old I'd just buy another, better one. I don't mind spending money on chairs, receivers, cabling, etc because those things will not "lose" a war within two years.

I can't say the same for HD players. I don't know if which will win and I'm not going to spend $400+ on a hope and a prayer. I will however spend $100 on a whim because
A.) I can and
B.) it's easy to get my money's worth

Just because people have nice things doesn't mean they're wasteful. I am extremely frugal but I have nice stuff. I simply prefer to get the best bang for the buck.


By Chaser on 11/2/2007 11:44:41 AM , Rating: 1
The sales numbers speak for themselves. Sorry but your bargain hunter Walmart entry into high def isn't everyone else's idea of investing in a High Def experience. Clearly red light specials aren't the most important factor. As lower prices hasn't helped HD DVD pass or get ahead of Blue Ray.

Glad you could save a buck thought.



By Moishe on 11/2/2007 11:54:31 AM , Rating: 2
If your idea of investing in Hi-Def requires you to pay 400% more than me (for 110% the quality) than you're welcome to it. We're all different in tastes, cash flow, etc.

All I'm saying is, higher price does *usually* equal higher quality, but it's also a proven fact that you can generally get 90% of the way there with 50% of the cash. That last 10% of the "features" is what usually incurs the other 50% of the cost. Since money matters to me, I'm thrilled to be able to have a very nice HT setup for 1/10 the cost of most of the HTs that I've seen.


By Chaser on 11/2/2007 12:25:21 PM , Rating: 2
My ideas where my money and choices go don't reflect a majority of other consumer's personal choices. Imagine that? I would also submit that most potential high def purchasers aren't busily walking around Walmart with pocket calculators splitting percentage points.


By timmiser on 11/2/2007 12:41:58 PM , Rating: 3
Every one of your posts you are trying to support your argument by downplaying the dollar difference in the players but nobody is falling for it. First of all, the home theatre systems people have invested in have different levels in quality; i.e. bigger screens, THX audio; 7.1/5.1/ speaker quality, etc. which are reflected in the amount of money you throw into it.

However with HD video players, the $99 HD players are essentially the same quality of the Sony $500-$1000 HD players. When people can spend HUNDREDS less with little to no drop in quality, they'll do it.

This is not about "saving a buck" and "percentage points" (all your quotes), this is about significant money savings but nice try nonetheless.


By Moishe on 11/2/2007 12:54:12 PM , Rating: 2
You're right that we're all different...
I'm frugal.

I'm the guy who wants a pretty nice setup but can't afford the best because I'm not rich. So that leaves me with two options. Get "most of the way there" with as little money as possible, or just accept a 32" CRT and a cheap HTiB system.

Works well for me, maybe not for you. I accept that, but lets not make it out to be black and white/all or nothing.


By Spuke on 11/2/2007 1:03:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm the guy who wants a pretty nice setup but can't afford the best because I'm not rich.
The thing is you don't have to be stupid with your money even when you're "rich". I can afford a Bluray player, no problem, but why pay $500 or $1000 when I can get the SAME THING for $100?

Are there some features that Bluray has that I would like to have? I would like the extra storage but that's irrelevant when it comes to just movie watching but relevant when it comes to my computer. And when Blu ray has deals on PC recorders then I'll buy one for my computer.


By Gio6518 on 11/4/2007 1:17:14 AM , Rating: 2
how do you figure same quality 1080i doesnt compare to 1080p, then dont even get me started on the audio, but then again the crap audio you get is great for the loss of audio on HD-DVD discs, look at transformers, the difference is that BLU-Ray doesnt put out garbage players, they are all ture HD in both audio and in picture, and far as toshiba being a qualty component company, theyre not even close to the top tier companies they might not be as bad as lets say olevia, but they hardly compare to denon, mitsubishi, samsung, sony etc. etc.


By Locutus465 on 11/4/2007 11:07:35 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, transformers audio is so bad it got 5/5 in highdefdigest.com, there are PCM tracks out there less impressive than what you get in transformers... Just so you're in formed (since you don't realize this), there are plenty of low quality BD discs on the market, many from major studios... In a lot of cases they seem to be higher resolution transfers of regular DVD's, so I guessy you could say "yes, sony puts crap out there" (even though this is as much sony's fault as you blame Toshiba for Paramouts use of 1.5Mbps DTS in transformers).


By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 11:55:41 AM , Rating: 2
Ok, well when the Walmart ran out of A2's the bargin hunters went ahead and ponyed up for A3's ($300 v. $100) and proceeded to buy multiple HD-DVD discs... I was not one of these people becaues I already have HD-DVD with my x-box 360, I was only interested in moving to a Toshiba stand alone if I could "trade" my hd-dvd x-box drive for a standalone. But I get a feeling that your sales numbers are likely to betray you shortly.


By timmiser on 11/2/2007 6:50:54 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8494...

Best Buy now has the HD-A3 for $199. Maybe you could have WalMart do a price match and get you another $100 back.


By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 11:29:49 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry, the Toshiba HD-A2 is hardly "bargin basement", in fact it was selling for $400 earlier this year... Blueray is not higher and mightier than that, and they better becarful about the price cuts, because they're about to be blindsided if the best thing they can come up with for the holiday season is a $400 PS3.


By Chaser on 11/2/2007 12:06:12 PM , Rating: 2
I meant prices. Relax. Listen unlike most of you I'm not in some kind of HD DVD cheerleader squad. When I decided on Blue Ray I looked at the specs of both "camps" and decided for my LCD HDTV, my HDMI Dolby Digital DTS Surround system, and other factors Blue Ray complemented my Home Theatre system the best.

When I made that decision I had no Sony Death wish or 360 agenda to push. I could have cared less about Toshiba, Sony or whatever. I simply wanted the best for my needs. Regardless of a label or brand.

I hate to break it to you all but most people in the market for high def don't spend time at work trying to split hairs and counter every credible argument because they will wake up one morning crying in their pillows if HD DVD doesn't "win".

As of today Blue Ray player and Disc sales are undeniably higher. And that doesn't count PS3s. My point is cheaper prices obviously aren't driving this "war". Has that been true there would have been a victor quite a while ago.

Most potential buyers aren't trolling tech websites "defending" all credible point in Blue Ray's favor. Nor are they licking the blood off their daggers in glee when Walmart throws up a bargain special. There's more to consumer purchasing decisions nation wide than your "informed" HD DVD trolling pep rallys.


By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 12:10:52 PM , Rating: 2
No, the compare cost and quality of experience... HD-DVD provides the exact same quality of experience at a significantly better price point... Unlike another posters suggestion BD doesn't even offer 10% better experience that HD-DVD, they're absolutly equivilent. So if you want to spend a good deal more to watch movies at the same quality that I am, by all means go for it... Personally I'm a bit more price sensative than that, I can't afford to throw away money on hardware that isn't any better than what I can get out of hd-dvd.


By Moishe on 11/2/2007 12:38:49 PM , Rating: 2
I wasn't suggesting that BRD gives 10% more quality...
I was specifically thinking of the people who moan about the difference between HMDI1.2 and 1.3 and other similar features.

The checkmarks on packages don't have a large effect on my purchases. What matter is what features I will use and then price.

BRD vs HD-DVD is stupid. I'm not in either camp, even now that've I've bought this HD-A2 They're just discs. I prefer some things about either side.


By Moishe on 11/2/2007 12:44:37 PM , Rating: 2
It sounds to me like you're putting down HD-DVD fans and you're just a BRD fan. Based on your post I'm not sure how you differ from those you're talking about. I've never been a "fan" or a cheerleader" for either side, and you can check my posts to back that up.

Both BRD and HD-DVD have advantages over the other. I don't care which wins, but I do consider the war as a negative against both formats.

If this had been a Blu-Ray player for $98... I would have gotten one. I just want someone to win so we can get this ignorance over with. It's not good for consumers.


By Spuke on 11/2/2007 1:52:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If this had been a Blu-Ray player for $98... I would have gotten one. I just want someone to win so we can get this ignorance over with.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!! If Bluray was $98, I would've bought that instead of HD DVD. I honestly could care less who wins as long as I can get a deal on it. And right now, HD DVD has the best deals.


By Spuke on 11/2/2007 12:57:13 PM , Rating: 2
You Bluray guys are just clueless. Joe Bob Shopper wants deal!!! They don't want to pay full price on products no matter how high the quality is. And it is THOSE people that will decide the market not the niche $10,000 home theater shopper. Sorry.


Bye Bye BR
By ChipDude on 11/1/2007 11:51:25 AM , Rating: 2
I've said this before, price is the most important factor. At 99 bucks these will be flying off the shelf. Can do native HD and upscale a standard DVD, that is a damm good price for upscale and standard DVD along, now they throw in HD-DVD its almost free.

BR with its higher cost with slight more capacity is going to be a loss leader for another year or more at these prices. Sony bet the farm and lost this one.




RE: Bye Bye BR
By elpresidente2075 on 11/1/2007 12:46:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sony bet the farm and lost this one.


Again...

When will Sony learn that only when you price your products in a way that Joe Shmo from Smalltown, Midwest can buy one can you make real profits? They didn't realize it in the heyday of the music industry (Sony/BMG) and then ol' Joe figured out computers and their profits started dropping, and look where they are now. Their electronics division has been taught this lesson many times, yet they continue releasing something as catastrophically overpriced as this on a 5-10 year schedule.

Maybe it's just the personality of the company. Maybe they only will accept the best, regardless of cost. Oh well, they can keep it up, it certainly pushes technology to new heights. Let's just not forget that their competitors are laughing it up, all the way to the bank.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By omnicronx on 11/1/2007 1:27:31 PM , Rating: 2
Sony has not had to learn, up until now putting the word Sony on the player was more than enough... What am i talking about, it still works...

*watches as old rich man goes into bestbuy and asks for the biggest Sony TV so his friends think he is cool*

Image is 50% of selling your product, just ask Apple..


RE: Bye Bye BR
By mikefarinha on 11/1/2007 2:23:28 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
*watches as old rich man goes into bestbuy and asks for the biggest Sony TV so his friends think he is cool*


The winner will be the format that pushes the most media (eg movies) and from my count their are many many more non 'old rich men' than not.

Studios make their money selling movies not players.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By omnicronx on 11/1/2007 2:42:39 PM , Rating: 2
Who cares how studios make their money, this has nothing to do with the 'Sony' name being attributed to good equipment.

And whom do you think buys these players and TV's in which they are watched? Sure as hell isn't your mom, or your little sister.

Next time you walk into a big box store, go to the home audio/video section and tell me what you see. I see men mainly aged 30-50 looking for their next big purchase.

With HighDef movie sales less than the release of one blockbuster DVD (ex Transformers 8 million DVD sold in first week, HD-DVD+BD TOTAL disc sales for all movies = 5 million)
As such player sales not movie sales are going to drive the next gen players. The winner of this battle will come down do who can get the most support from the studios and big box stores not who can sell the most movies.. although in the end both are probably tied together.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By mikefarinha on 11/1/2007 3:56:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Next time you walk into a big box store, go to the home audio/video section and tell me what you see. I see men mainly aged 30-50 looking for their next big purchase.


Omnicronx, you are looking in the wrong section...

Next time you are in Wal-mart look in the $10 DVD section... there are many more people here (mothers and sisters included) looking for their next 'small purchase' eg cheap movies. This is the target market that will declare who the winner of the format war is.

The key is who can get to this target market first with the largest number of *desirable* movies.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By elpresidente2075 on 11/2/2007 3:32:04 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Next time you are in Wal-mart look in the $10 DVD section... there are many more people here (mothers and sisters included) looking for their next 'small purchase' eg cheap movies. This is the target market that will declare who the winner of the format war is.

EXACTLY.
Sure, it's cool to have one guy spend 1000 dollars on a TV, but when you have 50 people spending 100 dollars on a TV at the same time, there's a lot more revenue being made. Same with everything. This is how Walmart was the most profitable company in the world, notwithstanding the oil companies. Conversely, this is why many retailers like Best Buy, Circuit City, and Fry's are not the most profitable companies in the world.

Bottom line? It's a lot easier to spend 5 dollars than it is to spend 50 dollars.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By Spuke on 11/2/2007 12:41:27 PM , Rating: 2
Bought two of these an hour ago. $98 as advertised and they were flying off the shelves! I grabbed the last two on the shelf but I think they were restocking them. There's no limit per customer so if you want to do the ebay thing go right ahead. Great deal! Thanks DT!!


RE: Bye Bye BR
By mezman on 11/2/2007 5:41:17 PM , Rating: 2
consider yourself lucky then. They were enforcing a one per customer rule at my Wal-Mart. I had to go outside and put my first player in my car before I could buy a second, which I did. Neither are going on eBay though.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By Spuke on 11/6/2007 4:38:18 PM , Rating: 2
Mine didn't go on ebay either. I got one for myself and one for a friend.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By Gio6518 on 11/4/2007 1:38:55 AM , Rating: 1
actually hd-dvd is like apple, no software
2 movie companies, paramount and warner (which warner also makes blu-rays) so soon to be just 1 company paramount

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/30/warner-home-vid...

unfortunately daily tech hides article not pro-HD-DVD

like in the issue of kmart

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Kmart/Kmart...

then not to mention the gigantic transformers lie
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Sales/...

the hd-dvd camp throws around lies like a politician throws around bullcrap

and i love listening to the idiotic coments we have crap players cheap so were going to win is so comical

ever think theyre liquidating their old crap they couldnt sell!

there are around 500k hd-dvd players out there including xbox add-ons, compared to the 2.2 million blu-rays including PS3 you really believe your gonna sell 1.7 million (not counting more blu-rays selling everyday) by the end of the year and catch up, and catch up in software sales with what seems to be 1 movie company (which who's loyalties lie with the highest bidder) is laughable


RE: Bye Bye BR
By soulbabel on 11/1/2007 1:46:58 PM , Rating: 4
You're probably right, this one day, limited supply sale at Walmart is going to end the format war.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By mcnabney on 11/1/2007 6:06:14 PM , Rating: 2
The perception that a product can be purchased at 'fair' prices does indeed guide the market.

Look at high definition LCD displays. They quickly dropped in cost and have stolen the spotlight from DLP and plasma.

Perceived value is everything.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By myocardia on 11/1/2007 10:02:20 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Look at high definition LCD displays. They quickly dropped in cost and have stolen the spotlight from DLP and plasma.


Actually, the reason they dropped so quickly in price had alot more to do with how much better their picture quality is, than anything else. Whatever people buy the most, the cheaper it will become.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By timmiser on 11/2/2007 7:02:18 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, what today showed was if the permanent price was $98, HD-DVD players would outsell $400-$500 Blu-Ray players 200-1 and yes, the format war would be over.

I think this holiday season, you will see $98 HD-DVD players as the regular price. After the impact of this holiday season, let's see who is ahead then.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By soulbabel on 11/3/2007 9:41:46 AM , Rating: 2
Well, let's hope that $98 is the regular price for an HD-DVD player, because we can then expect the Bluray side to offer incentive deals to offset the market penetration gained by HD-DVD players. Consumers on either side will be able to benefit this holiday season.

However, you shouldn't equate higher hardware sales to domination in the HD war. It's going to come down to which side sells the most software, which as of right now, Bluray has the advantage because of its movie library. Granted, if the number of HD-DVD players increases immensely, you may be able to bring some Bluray exclusive studios to both sides, but then it relies on you as a consumer to speak with your wallet and support your chosen format by buying movies. If the trend continues that Bluray sells more disc, while HD-DVD rents out more discs, you can tell which side the movie studios will side with.


RE: Bye Bye BR
By Spuke on 11/6/2007 5:15:52 PM , Rating: 2
So if player sales isn't important, how do you play the movies?


Strange
By Murst on 11/1/2007 11:56:40 AM , Rating: 2
I always thought Blu-ray would eventually win out, but with such a large price difference in the players, I can actually see the HDDVD win out in the USA (while blu-ray continues to dominate everywhere else in the world).

The ironic thing about this is that people who support HDDVD cite no region locking as one of the huge advantages. Well, if Blu-ray continues to dominate outside of the US, and HDDVD does well in the USA, all HDDVD players will be locked to the USA market by default.

The format will decide the region for HDDVD, while Blu-ray will have region locking that is disabled by software (and as easily overridden as in current DVD players). There's no way to unlock a region when it is based on format.




RE: Strange
By soulbabel on 11/1/2007 2:02:27 PM , Rating: 2
Just so you know, despite the region locking, alot of Bluray title's can still play on players from other regions:

http://bluray.liesinc.net/

So despite it being part of the format, it's not always enforced.


RE: Strange
By soulbabel on 11/1/2007 2:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, also, the regions aren't as bad as DVD region coding was. There are only three regions, and as long as a title is A & B compatible, most users should be fine importing discs.

Region A: North America, Central America, South America, Japan, Taiwan, North Korea, South Korea, Hong Kong and Southeast Asia.
Region B: Europe, Greenland, French territories, Middle East, Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
Region C: India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Mainland China, Pakistan, Russia, Central and South Asia.


RE: Strange
By wallijonn on 11/1/2007 3:05:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if Blu-ray continues to dominate outside of the US, and HDDVD does well in the USA, all HDDVD players will be locked to the USA market by default.


And the pirates will make money releasing BD movies in HDDVD since they are the ones who can afford the burners, computers and conversion software. Why anyone would want to buy a region locked movie is beyond me (since I don't have old world grand parents who need movies in their native language) but I guess getting U.K. and Australian releases make sense in the case of certain movies.


RE: Strange
By omnicronx on 11/1/2007 3:19:22 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention limiting yourself to one market is like shooting yourself in the foot. It's just not going to happen, either one format wins outright, or dual format players will catch on.


RE: Strange
By Murst on 11/1/2007 5:21:00 PM , Rating: 2
I guess I just don't see your point. What do you mean by limiting yourself to one market?

If HDDVD wins, it will only win in the USA, unless something amazing is going to happen in the rest of the world, cause HDDVD is pretty much dead there. Winning would, by default, limit HDDVD to one market. The movies that would be released in HDDVD here would be released in Blu-ray over there (as they are now, I believe).


RE: Strange
By mezman on 11/2/2007 5:45:12 PM , Rating: 2
Dual format players are the wave of the future, no doubt. But right now they are stratosphereic in price. When they come down though, I think they will settle the format war the way that DVD+-R burners settled that. Once it doesn't make a difference what format your disc is in, no one will care except fanboys.


RE: Strange
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 3:58:40 PM , Rating: 2
US market decided Beta .v VHS... This is the only such Beta v. VHS comparison I think is legit... The US is a huge market, still the worlds biggest... Studio's/Hardware companies really don't want multiple formats...


RE: Strange
By Murst on 11/1/2007 5:16:59 PM , Rating: 2
The US market isn't as powerful as it was before, however.

Europe (as a whole) has passed the US (since the late 70s, early 80s) in terms of overall market power, and Asia is quickly moving up and will pass us relatively soon (especially if China + India keep going as they currently are).


RE: Strange
By bisoy on 11/1/2007 7:45:18 PM , Rating: 2
But China is developing it's own HD format which is a variant of HD-DVD


Warner [Bros.] about to drop HD neutrality?
By mikefarinha on 11/1/2007 11:52:07 AM , Rating: 2
Anyone see this article?
Very interesting...
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/warner-about-to-drop-h...

quote:
Now, we don't know which side they want to take but this could be big news. Should the studio decide to back only one format it could bring an end to the format war. Warner has the biggest movie catalog in world and whoever gets their support wins.




By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/1/2007 12:56:35 PM , Rating: 2
This could be very interesting indeed. Warner could very well sink either format's future prospects at success.


RE: Warner [Bros.] about to drop HD neutrality?
By omnicronx on 11/1/2007 1:35:50 PM , Rating: 2
Which is why the company with the deepest pockets could end up swaying Warner. You would have to think they will make a deal somewhat like paramounts.

Sony could have one up here..

*crosses fingers for Microsoft to show some muscle* It would be a shame for everyone to buy an HD-DVD player over christmas to have Warner sign an exclusive deal with Sony right after ;)


By murphyslabrat on 11/1/2007 2:12:44 PM , Rating: 2
However, in such a position (if it really is as painted), you had better believe that WB is gonna bleed either company for every penny they can give.


By omnicronx on 11/1/2007 2:55:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you had better believe that WB is gonna bleed either company for every penny they can give.
No doubt ;)


By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 1:38:53 PM , Rating: 4
Here's hoping they go HD-DVD... I see that as the consumers best bet for affordable HD movie watching (and breaking the region shackles).


By Gio6518 on 11/4/2007 1:48:54 AM , Rating: 2
it would only sink HD-DVD if they switched blu-ray
now if warner went HD-DVD only it would put the market for high def discs at 50-50 which would prolong this stupid high-def war indefinitely, only way HD-DVD could win is to sway WB along with 2 more companies pick 2 sony, fox or disney and i doubt that will happen


I'm officially angry with walmart....
By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 9:25:24 AM , Rating: 2
I got there at 7:30 this morning, no line... I thought great, apparently the word didn't get out like I thought! yay! Nope, turns out they sold out at 7am... Yes folks, that's right, they sold out before the sale start... Why didn't I just walk in a midnight? Seriously, I could have bought one at any point in time apparnetly...

Anyway, on the good news for HD-DVD front, I actually saw people buying the more expensive A3's with handfulls of HD-DVD's after the A2's were gone. I'm not sure if Toshiba set this deal up with walmart or not, but it was brilliant! This really moved HD-DVD very well, a few more deals like this and I think blueray really will be done.




RE: I'm officially angry with walmart....
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/2/2007 9:43:09 AM , Rating: 2
Yea, the 8am must be the standard time most stores open. The one here opens at 6.


By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 11:14:07 AM , Rating: 2
This is a 24hr walmart, so that's not the issue.... They shouldn't have started selling until 8am period! Then to make matters worse the asst manager calls another store, claims that they're going to be holding one for me, then when I get there they tell me "Oh, I told her that I don't have any." Grrr!


RE: I'm officially angry with walmart....
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 10:21:28 AM , Rating: 2
that sucks... I was there about ten minutes early because I had to buy some other stuff and they had employees waiting until 8 am. They even mentioned the 1 item per person rule but didn't enforce people making multiple trips through the line.

I hope this purchase qualifies for the 5 free movies...

As much as people hate it, player and movie price will be what decides the war and HD-DVD just stepped it up a notch for the whole holiday season with this sort of thing.


By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 11:21:23 AM , Rating: 2
I'm comfertable with that fact, same quality better price point? I'm all about it...


By DesertCat on 11/2/2007 1:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
I made the half hour trip to a Walmart store I figured would actually have this. Due to traffic delays, I walked in at 8:05 am after noticing one guy was loading three HD-DVD boxes into his trunk (there were others that had 2-3 also, I noticed later). When I picked mine up off of the shelf, there were about 8 left. By the time I checked out at the electronic counter there was 1 left (about 8:15).

The funny thing is that the staff seemed surprised and unprepared that there were about a dozen people milling about in the electronics department right after opening. They hadn't set out the $14 promotional HD-DVDs either, though they had them at the counter and we could purchase them. Overall, you could tell they were thinking "WTF is going on?" :D

For me, the A2 is a good match to my HDTV. I bought a 32" 4:3 Hitachi CRT about 5 years ago on an open-box special at Circuit City (a 42" flat panel at that time was $4k). So 1080p does not even matter on this TV and it does 3:2 pulldown just fine anyway. The TV only has component inputs for high def but it's my understanding that the whole "copy protection that forces 480p" thing isn't even being used now. My trial movie this morning after I plugged everything in looked nice and crisp, kind of like the high def feeds I've seen over cable for several years.


RE: I'm officially angry with walmart....
By bighairycamel on 11/2/2007 2:41:37 PM , Rating: 2
It worked out pretty good for me... I was there early and the same thing happened: they sold them before 8 AM because they didnt know much about the special. So we waited to see if they would give us a rain check, then they brought out an A3 and a Philips BDP9000 Blue-ray player instead. I snagged the Blue-ray which rung up as $500 and got it for 98.87.

Now should I sell it or keep it... not sure yet.


By Locutus465 on 11/2/2007 2:51:21 PM , Rating: 2
Sounds like my walmarts customer service could learn a thing or two from yours :P


Check out the deals on Xbox and Wii's to.
By imaheadcase on 11/1/2007 7:09:37 AM , Rating: 3
I can confirm that they will also be selling Wii and xbox's at incredible discounts. I don't know specific pricing as of yet, but if you noticed your local walmart will have special displays built in stores that will will hold them. Some will be for exclusive bundles or just marked down.

Local wal-mart has only 30 of those HD $99 players. But the Wii's and Xboxes are the best deal.




RE: Check out the deals on Xbox and Wii's to.
By helios220 on 11/1/2007 9:41:45 AM , Rating: 2
Why would they sell Wii's at 'incredible discounts' when they can't even keep them in stock in the majority of the country at full retail price?

Unless it's some sort of bundle where you get all those sweet Barbie games you've always wanted I find myself highly skeptical of any incredible deals on Wii.

It's a matter of personal opinion I suppose, most bundles seem to be nothing more to me than an attempt to unload a bunch of crap on you that retailers can't get anyone else to buy.


By BMFPitt on 11/1/2007 10:19:31 AM , Rating: 2
To get you in the door... Though I agree that "Wiis are in stock" would be just about as effective.


RE: Check out the deals on Xbox and Wii's to.
By nayy on 11/1/2007 10:52:52 AM , Rating: 2
It almost looks as if walmart had something against sony, probably is just a coincidence
But still walmart giving away 50" plasmas, HD-DVD players, Wiis and 360s is not good business for sony.


By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 11:16:30 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps rather than having something against sony, it's more like Sony's are not positioned properly for these kinds of deals... Probably they're willing to take a small loss on some big ticket items in the hopes it'll get you in the door, and you'll do other shopping (if only for accessories like HDMI hookup cables).

But they can only take this so far, they can't do it to the point that HDMI/optical audio cables etc wouldn't be enough to recoupe losses (on average)... Which if that is the case that gives me a good idea on what profit margines on HD-DVD must be even at $200 :P


By Locutus465 on 11/3/2007 3:25:56 PM , Rating: 2
I asked an associate at walmart about Wii discounts and the only price I got was $237... not so amazing... If they drop to the $99 range I'll be sure to pick on up though, they'll make great gifts!


Wow...
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 10:01:26 AM , Rating: 2
Ok, well I already have an x-box HD-DVD drive... But for this price I think I'll be scoping the local walmart to see if I can pick one of these up! I would totally ebay the x-box drive and replace it with an A2.




RE: Wow...
By MattCoz on 11/1/2007 1:36:23 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, you're copying my plan!


RE: Wow...
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 1:59:35 PM , Rating: 2
I had it first, I call dibs! ;)


Best Buy
By creathir on 11/1/2007 4:27:26 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like Best Buy is doing the same thing as well... at least according to another tech news site out there...

- Creathir




RE: Best Buy
By Spuke on 11/1/2007 5:56:32 PM , Rating: 2
Which tech site?


RE: Best Buy
Hello HD-DVD
By mikefarinha on 11/1/2007 9:04:04 AM , Rating: 5
Hmm, maybe its time to put my money where my mouth is and actually support HD-DVD. Under $150 is definitely the sweet spot for a new HD player. Hello Transformers, Batman, and Bourn Identity!




Stinking rich
By jmunjr on 11/1/2007 6:44:50 PM , Rating: 1
Since I am stinking rich early adoption doesn't put a microscopic dimple in my pocket book..

Here's to STINKING RICH !




RE: Stinking rich
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 10:28:29 AM , Rating: 1
Hear! hear!


RE: Stinking rich
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 11:29:35 AM , Rating: 2
oooh someone has mod points to waste on downrating us :)

Not sure why, but... whatever.


well I got one...
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 8:47:09 AM , Rating: 2
My local Walmart actually had a small crowd of men at the tech counter. I didn't have to rush or worry about the number. It looked like they had literally just 20 of the HD-A2 and the $349 laptop. I saw a couple of people come back so they could get multiples. I guess Walmart's rule about one per person doesn't matter to the employee at the counter.

I've been waiting to see who wins the format war, but this price is low enough to use for a year and discard. I wouldn't feel like I wasted my cash I hate having a dedicated home theater and no HD player. Where I think HD-DVD is failing the customer is in the HTPC market. I would have rather had an HD-DVD drive for my HTPC which is already completely integrated into the theater.




RE: well I got one...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/2/2007 8:50:39 AM , Rating: 2
True. They sold out fast at my store. People were grabbing 2 or 3 and checking out. Yea Walmart didn't care about any 1 per person rule. I got one to give away as an Xmas present (Already own an A-20), but I would say all were sold out in 5 minutes.


Just got one
By snorky on 11/2/2007 9:33:59 AM , Rating: 2
Most people in line wanted the $345 Laptop
Plenty of HD players. Walmart was slow as always.

$100 is a no brainer if you want an up-convert DVD player. The 5 free movies (not the best - but free). Easily makes up the $20 or so premium over a decent up-convert DVD.

Will I buy lots of movies? maybe - but I have NetFlix, so buying isn't a big deal. If HD-DVD flops, I can still play DVDs




RE: Just got one
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 10:31:04 AM , Rating: 2
I already had a good upconverting DVD player... and I can honestly say that they look VERY nice on my screen... but $100 is just so cheap. Free movies (hopefully) and netflix seals the deal for me. I enabled HD-DVD on my netflix account this morning and apparently a significant percentage of my large queue is available in HD-DVD... No need to buy when you can rent!


Did anyone try to get the player this morning?
By soulbabel on 11/2/2007 12:16:34 PM , Rating: 2
I'm just curious if anyone that tried to buy the $100 player can say how their experience went.




By teng029 on 11/2/2007 1:51:52 PM , Rating: 2
got mine this morning. the shopping experience was fairly painless, considering it is walmart. the store only had 30 in stock and the dept. manager claims he had no idea they were going on sale today.

anyway, they allowed one unit per person and was very organized in the way they did it.

now i need hd dvds :)


States only? or canada too?
By Hase0 on 11/1/2007 1:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone know if this is only states or is Canada included? If it is i might grab me a tv and hd dvd player




HD-A2 for $99 Add to cart *NOW*
By mikefarinha on 11/1/2007 2:08:22 PM , Rating: 2
check out bestbuy.com

Get your $99 player right this second!
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp;jsessionid...




Saw Blu-Ray movies for $10
By Wagnbat on 11/2/2007 7:46:55 AM , Rating: 2
At the Navy Exchange, a military department store. Don't think it's an isolated incident either as I was able to nab the page from the flyer on their website:
http://mappage.net/images/07-39A_09_E.jpg

Maybe BR movies are going to be cheaper this holiday season to compete.




Ummmmm...
By Motoman on 11/5/2007 1:25:40 AM , Rating: 2
...isn't that one of the Wal-Mart chicks from the famous nude thing they did a while ago?




Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By SunAngel on 11/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Oscarine on 11/1/2007 7:10:10 AM , Rating: 2
How exactly is Blu-Ray not targeting gamers... the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive, and some of the newer bundles include Blu-Ray movie copies of Spider Man 3.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By FITCamaro on 11/1/2007 7:12:51 AM , Rating: 5
What? How is Toshiba targeting gamers and low middle income families by stores dropping the price on its players? Toshiba is targeting everyone with HD-DVD. There are cheap players and there are more expensive ones as there should be.

And enough with the "it doesn't have 1080p" crap. This is a budget player. Just because it doesn't have 1080p, doesn't mean it has less value than the 360 addon drive. The people who are going to buy this player, likely don't have a 1080p TV. And if they do, it'll still work fine since any good TV will easily deinterlace the signal. Any LCD and Plasma has to do this since to begin with. I mean HD cable is 1080i. Does it look like crap? No. 1080p has its merits but it is hardly a requirement to have a great picture.

And no. With HD-DVD hardware at this price, its is going to end up as the HD format. Blu-ray will end up as the PS3 games format and for data backup storage for PCs (maybe). Sony still hasn't learned that maybe having the most technologically advanced format means nothing when it costs more than the other guy. And for movies, the extra space of Blu-ray just isn't needed. 30GB is more than enough to a feature film in HD. Sure you might not fit the movie and all the extras on one disc, but who cares? That lets them sell special editions with the bonus disc.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By SunAngel on 11/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By AlexWade on 11/1/2007 9:17:02 AM , Rating: 3
You argument is flawed.

FACT: The only reason why Blu-Ray leads 2:1 is PS3. FACT: The vast majority of people who bought a PS3 are geeks, not average consumers. FACT: Furthermore, if you care to research you'll see that average consumers only want standalones, not add-ons or PS3's.

Those are facts. Blu-Ray was dead in the water before PS3. Now go ask your neighbor if he or she knows what a PS3 is good for. They will either say "what is a PS3" or "games", unless they are a geek like we are.

Toshiba is courting the right crowd, the vast majority who know little. And besides, boasting 2:1 when you struggle to sell even sold 1,000,000 worldwide isn't something to be proud of. For either side.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By SunAngel on 11/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Procurion on 11/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Locutus465 on 11/1/2007 11:43:13 AM , Rating: 4
It's not garbage, it's good hardware, it's just to expensive... Even for the upper middle class... SunAngle just needs to graduate high school, get out of college and find out what it means to have real priorities and bills to pay... This is why even at at $400 price point the PS3 is likely to continue struggling in sales (though almost certainly do significantly better than ever before).

When it comes to entertainment hardware unless you make a very significant amount of money you're only going to be willing to spend so much to be entertained, that's about it... There are the exceptions to the rule, I'm a bit of a geek and love consumer electronics so I have an HD-TV already with an HD-DVD x-box drive (which will be getting sold if I pick up one of these bad boys). I've spent a much bigger portion of my income than I should be on my entertainment center, but then I'm also unmarried and I have a roommate, this helps.


By Anh Huynh on 11/1/2007 12:41:44 PM , Rating: 2
Amen Brother! I spend a lot of money on my home theater, but I still can't justify a PS3. The Xbox brings me gaming enjoyment, the Wii brings me enjoyment with friends, the HD DVD player I built a large library of movies on and it was cheaper than a Blu-ray player (at the time). The PS3...well its $400 for something that I'd rarely use, except as a Blu-ray player to watch Superbad and the Simpsons Movie when it comes out.

Aside from that...games? Only thing I find appealing is Lemmings. GT5 Prologue is cool, but by the time the actual GT5 comes out, PS3's should be like $300. There's not much enjoyment to spend extra money when the only thing I'd want is still 1-2 years away.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Spuke on 11/1/2007 9:55:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
FACT: Furthermore, if you care to research you'll see that average consumers only want standalones, not add-ons or PS3's.
I'll even go so far as to say that the general public has NO idea they can even play movies on a PS3. FACT: my bro-in-law, two co-workers, and one of my cousins had NO idea they could play movies on their PS3's. My bro-in-law said he was considering buying a HD DVD player and I said why do that, you already have a Bluray player in your PS3. He knew it had a Bluray player but thought it was only for games. My two co-workers and my cousin just thought it was a gaming machine and had no idea what Bluray was.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Spuke on 11/1/2007 9:59:19 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Only people that are buying it is those that want it and those the can afford to buy it, hence middle upper class.
BS!!! I'm upper middle class and I see Bluray as a waste of money. With HD DVD I get the EXACT same thing for WAY less money. I can go buy a new Onkyo receiver with the money I saved and probably a couple of other things. Just because you have some extra cash to spend doesn't mean you have to be stupid with your purchases.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Parhel on 11/1/2007 10:08:49 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, I'm with you. You don't become upper-middle class by throwing your money away on crap.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By omnicronx on 11/1/2007 3:17:15 PM , Rating: 2
Thats a load of garbage, regardless of your personal experiences so called 'lower' classes do not spend more money than 'upper/middle' classes.

The way it usually works, especially with the younger crowd is; Those who have money buy more, they're more in debt, and they have less to give. Although this may give the appearance that your 'friends' spend less, it probably is not so.

As for your quote:
quote:
You don't become upper-middle class by throwing your money away on crap.
.. wouldn't this be the exact reason to become 'upper middle class', otherwise everyone would pick a smaller house with tons of electronics any day over a big house with nothing in it, as you don't buy anything once you reach the 'upper middle class'. Not to mention not having to work as hard. </max_sarcasm_possible>

Most people i know with low incomes do a little something called Saving , it works well, you should try it sometime.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Parhel on 11/1/2007 4:24:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Thats a load of garbage, regardless of your personal experiences


At my job, I deal with hundreds of people's finances every week. I pore over people's bank statements from every imaginable financial bankground. Let me say it again: you don't get to be upper-middle class by throwing your money away on crap.

quote:
The way it usually works


Here's a simple equation for you, just a general rule that is by no means universal: being responsible with money = being responsible in general = more responsibilities at work = higher pay.

As I said, there are plenty of exceptions out there. I see people who make plenty of money at their jobs who live from paycheck to paycheck. And, I see people who make very little with perfect credit who manage to pay their bills on time every month.

What I see all the time, though, is that people who are in bad financial straits totally waste money. For example, I spoke with a woman the other day who gets $20 cash from the ATM each and every day and pays $4 in bank fees because of that. In addition, she spends like crazy and bounces checks all over town. She makes good money, but guess what? She's filing for bankruptcy.

quote:
Saving , it works well, you should try it sometime.


What a weird assumption for you to make that I don't have any savings.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 9:09:20 AM , Rating: 2
[ sarcasm ]

WHAT? I though rich/wealthy people only got rich/wealthy by screwing others or inheriting a dump truck of cash?

[/ sarcasm ]

Like you I am upper-middle class. I have a good job and plenty of money in the bank. I have this money because I am careful with my spending. You generally don't become "well-off" or rich by throwing money around on frivolous toys. Frugality is wisdom.

Basically if you can get over the lie that says that "I have to have what I want, NOW", you can do quite well. I still have what I want, I simply wait until I have the cash to buy it. There is no risk in saving or waiting on a purchase. I save money by doing research and buying a cheaper item that does the same thing. Or in the case of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD I simply realize that HDMI 1.3 vs 1.2 makes no difference to me right now. 080i vs 1080p makes no difference to me right now (I have a 720p display). If I'm willing to accept and use only the best when I know that I won't benefit from it's use, I am purely wasting money. All I would get by buying Blu-Ray would be a better ePenis score and bragging rights. That's not worth money to me.

Here is a nugget of financial wisdom for you readers too... The money you're saving up to buy an item collects interest. I know I know... what's 4% on a few hundred or a few thousand dollars? Not much, but if you keep your money in a decent interest bearing account (like a money market acct) you can really get some income. I save for everything and the interest earned off of cash I have set aside for items can sometimes equal over $100 a month. It's not pocket change when you get some scale


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By BansheeX on 11/1/2007 12:16:55 PM , Rating: 2
Your argument is also flawed. The vast majority of people who care about HD over DVD are also geeks, not average consumers. Stop making garbage correlations based on personal bias about the PS3. This is a bait move from Wal-Mart to get you in their store to shop around for other things, the 95% of people who don't get one aren't going to just leave without trying to find some other purchase to make it worth the trip.


By omnicronx on 11/1/2007 3:30:39 PM , Rating: 2
The vast majority of the people did not know or care what 5.1 audio was either. Yet somehow most homes in America have a 5.1 receiver, probably set up wrong with analogue connections. High-Def formats will not have the push DVD had, but its not going to be a total flop and only attract hardcore users and 'geeks' either.

Many of my friends whom under no uncertain circumstances would i label them 'geeks' are avid about High Def just because they got hooked on High-Def sports broadcasts. As prices drop, more and more average consumers will jump on the high def movie bandwagon. It really should not be surprising either, early technology adopters can usually be placed in the 'geek','video/audiophile' categories.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Procurion on 11/1/2007 3:35:51 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry, I didn't express myself clearly. I meant that the idea of integrating ANY gaming console into an entertainment center in the main living area of a family household is silly with the purpose of using it as an HD player of any brand or fashion, from BluRay to HDDVD.

Sometimes being a middle-aged parent is a good thing. I remember all the gaming consoles over the years. I remember the 1-2 year refresh cycle which renders that $400 toy useless in 18 months or so. I remember that I have a wonderful PS that is no longer supported even though it works well. I know that I don't want to be loading an HD disc into an otherwise useless chunk of plastic that had been supereded with the newest thing two or three times over.

You suggest that I should have several consoles stacked haphazardly on shelves surrounding the television, each with the newest gidget or gadget that have no standard? You want me to fight for the right to watch a movie when my kids want to play video games?

THAT is why this is big news. I have four DVD players in the house. One in the kitchen, one in the living room, one in my office, and one in the bedroom. I will replace them, and will replace them with HD. And I won't pay for a console in each room to do that.

Do you see the point, here? You and countless others are making one huge mistake that is the kind of mistake that businessmen/women cannot make if their compnay is to succeed. Toys are toys. DVD players are not. Take a gallon of water and scoop a tablespoon from it. Now compare. The tablespoon represents the number of consoles that will be sold vs the rest of the water, which represents the number of stand-alone players that will be sold. Economics 101.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By BansheeX on 11/1/2007 10:18:02 PM , Rating: 2
First of all, the PS3 doesn't have too many kids games, so I'm not sure why they're fighting you for it. Second, I'm not sure why their desire to play a game on their father's console gives them the right to do so at a time when you want to watch a movie. Feel free to be a parent and tell them when they can and can't use your stuff.

But that aside, it's already been explained that this price is a marketing stunt for a limited supply item, so it is certainly not BIG NEWS. It's news to DT bloggers who have obvious leanings and would love to turn it into a headline. Not only will you not obtain four of these at $97, you cannot possibly believe that a low-stock clearance item that few people will actually obtain is going to have an effect on this war. It will sell out within the hour and the MSRP is going to go back to $300 for the latest in-stock model, the HD-A3.

There are not enough titles on either format to expect mass adoption even with easily obtainable $150 players. For many people, buying into an HD format not only means rebuying many of their existing movies, but secondary to first getting an HD television. Since that will take a few more years, blu-ray doesn't have to worry a god damned bit right now about current price discrepencies. A bunch of average joe's with SD televisions and a DVD collection are not going to adopt a new format until these things happen FIRST. By the time they do a few years from now, blu-ray players will have reached near parity with HD-DVD ones.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By FITCamaro on 11/1/2007 10:03:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
no Managed Copy


What does the player have to do with the disc? Managed Copy is something that would be determined by the protections on the disc, not what player you're using.

quote:
It will soon be reported on DailyTech that Toshiba has decided to nolonger be involved with HD DVD and will sell its technology to Sanyo, GoldStar, and Emerson.


Where are you getting this stuff from?


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By SunAngel on 11/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By BMFPitt on 11/1/2007 8:55:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Someone correct me if I wrong, but I believe the 360's HDMI out is 1080p capable and this HD-A2 player is 720p/1080i. You'd get better value with 1080p and versitility of the 360 HD DVD add-on than you would with the 1080i stand alone player.
It's a matter of situation and preference. I have a 1080i TV, I prefer a standalone player for movies, and I rarely if ever rip DVDs. For me this is a good buy, and I think that the majority of the market is in that same ballpark. If you have 1080p and/or want to rip HDDVDs, obviously the 360 drive is better for you.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Noya on 11/1/2007 9:10:00 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Blu-ray is not targeting gamers and low middle income class, but rather middle and upper income class and those gamers


I think upper income gamers use quad-core / SLi GTX PC's, not the lame PS3.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Spuke on 11/1/2007 10:06:01 AM , Rating: 2
Upper income gamers have both. I don't own a console but will most likely buy a Wii when they are available in some decent quantities and I can get a deal on them.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Bluestealth on 11/1/2007 10:11:11 AM , Rating: 2
If you are a "gamer" you don't only own a PC these days, since most games come out for the consoles and not the PC. The higher income players will have an SLI Quadcore PC and a XBox360 Elite(?) and maybe a Wii too. The ultra rich geeks may also own a PS3.

I am not a console gamer, and not ultra rich, so I have a dual core with only a single video card :(


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By aos007 on 11/2/2007 3:39:50 AM , Rating: 2
Hey now, don't go overboard. I have everything except Wii (by conscious choice, not money) and I'm certainly not ultra rich. I'd barely consider myself (lower) middle class. I don't have SLI (only a 7600GT, looking to get 8800GT) but I do have a quad core oc'd to 3.44GHz. However, I don't have a car. Hence I can spend money on electronics and games. That makes a huge difference, though I admit a lot of people don't have that choice (they must drive because of where they live).

I however absolutely agree with you about needing PC AND one or more consoles to consider yourself a (hardcore) gamer. There's only a handful of games coming on PC and most of them are strategies (which I don't play with exception of super hits). If you only have a PC, you'll be playing very few games, most of them only so-so. Unless you play plenty of FPS/Strategy multiplayer (no one I know does, but I am in my 30's) or use PC heavily for other stuff, I'd consider a PC a poor gaming investment. Xbox360 is probably the best investment right now, if you like the games it has (I do) - as long as you get the cooler die-shrank version. For the price of one good video card you can play many of the best new games available. I hate their - until recently - loud, hot, unreliable hardware but you can't argue with games and well-thought out architecture.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Oobu on 11/5/2007 6:41:31 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know how many people would agree with me on this, but I'd have to disagree with you and say the PC is an excellent gaming platform. I've played all the consoles, and I just feel really limited when using them. On a PC a gamer can do so much more. I'm not big on playing an FPS on a console, but on a PC it's a real blast. RTS games on a console? Yuck. MMO? Pain in the neck unless you use a keyboard to chat. The consoles are getting better, but they still have a long way to go. I think a good gaming PC is a better investment than spending $250-$600 on a console. Buy an 8800GT, a decent CPU, and about 2GB of RAM and you'll be set for most games. What really is a "hardcore" gamer though? I don't think you NEED to have a console AND a PC. It depends on how much time you spend playing, how good you are, and your devotion to the game. I feel bad for people that think a console is the best gaming solution though, because they are truly missing out on some good stuff in the PC side of things.


RE: Blue Light Specials Everywhere
By Bluestealth on 11/6/2007 7:53:39 PM , Rating: 2
If your responding to me then I have no idea what you are going on about. I hate consoles and I am a PC gamer. However if you are a "gamer" you kinda have to have a console if you want to actually play the majority of the games that are coming out.

I would prefer PC games rather than console games. There are some games that are better for consoles... and most of those end up on the Wii :)

BTW I think that the XBox and Playstation controllers are garbage, while the Wii's works fairly well. While the hell do they scroll so slowly anyways, are they really concerned that people can't learn how to not just slam the knob to the left? Gah... die consoles die.


By Bluestealth on 11/6/2007 7:55:10 PM , Rating: 2
BTW my new laser mouse is ridiculously fast and accurate. I can't even go back to an older mouse, it also makes consoles that much more painful.


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