DailyTech - HD DVD Group Boasts Better Sales Than Blu-ray

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Hardware HD DVD Group Boasts Better Sales Than Blu-ray
Marcus Yam (Blog) - July 18, 2007 7:15 AM

61 comment(s) - last by afkrotch.. on Jul 28 at 1:40 AM

HP in HD, currently only available in Europe, will hit both formats this fall (Source: Amazon.co.uk)

The HD DVD camp touts that its sales of players are up, while the Blu-ray guys' sales are down

The North American HD DVD Promotional Group took the opportunity at the Entertainment Merchants Association (EMA) Home Media Expo 2007 to pound its chest by announcing its recent small victory over Blu-ray Disc for the quarter.

Citing data based on NPD reports, Nielsen Netratings reports and point of sale data from the studios, overall HD DVD hardware sales were up 37 percent from Q1 to Q2 2007, while software sales experienced a 20 percent increase in growth.

According to the Group, during the same time-frame, overall Blu-ray hardware sales saw a 27 percent decline from Q1 to Q2, and Blu-ray software sales were down 5 percent. It is unclear if PlayStation 3 consoles were excluded from those numbers.

The HD DVD backers are crediting the recent surge to major spring marketing efforts which brought standalone HD DVD players down to $299. Thanks to the new low price, dedicated HD DVD CE players experienced a 183 percent quarterly increase. There are currently more than 180,000 dedicated HD DVD CE players in the market.

"The numbers are clear -- HD DVD is steadily gaining momentum and market share," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment, and co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group. "With HD DVD CE players now at MSRP prices starting at $299 and with strong marketing campaigns around new HD DVD titles with web-enabled interactive features, we're continuing to raise the bar for the consumer experience."

The European HD DVD Promotional Group said last week that it holds a 74 percent market share in terms of standalone hardware in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Switzerland.

The Groups says that HD DVD owners will have close to 1,000 titles worldwide to choose from by the holidays.

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Testing comments

By Anh Huynh on 7/18/2007 1:20:23 PM , Rating: 2

For some reason comments aren't working.

RE: Testing comments

By AmbroseAthan on 7/18/2007 1:24:53 PM , Rating: 3

In the end, this battle between BlueRay & HD-DVD is going to be about player prices; not the movies they have. The average consumer isn't going to research to see which movies each player has; they are going to buy the one that is closer to the price of their current DVD player. Most people find it hard to justify spending a lot on a new format when their DVD players are good enough.

HD-DVD could gain a lot of ground if they continue to be able to bring prices down as fast as they have been. If they knock another 50-100 dollars off by Christmas, I think we will see a huge surge for HD-DVD. The $499 PS3 will help BlueRay (while supplies last), but HD-DVD is starting to push into what most consumers will consider a reasonable price for their High Definition "DVD Player". $199 will be the starting sweet spot for better adoption rates for either format.

With regards to the movies, the market will push the studios one direction or the other if one wins at some point; most likely dual-format players will end up winning (if they can get prices down). Just like Star Wars was never going to be on DVD, the studios will jump formats to get their money. No studio is going to stand by a format if the other will bring them more money.

(And w00t! for DT getting comments kind of working!)

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RE: Testing comments

By mdogs444 on 7/18/2007 1:42:23 PM , Rating: 2

Well said. I think most consumers, myself included, dont give two damns about what format or what type of disc wins. For all they care, both can stay in it for the long haul, as long as the dual format players are affordable like today's DVD players.

Personally, I could give two shits whether the plastic case around the movie is red or blue, HD or BD, Sony or Toshiba. Id just like to be able to have a High Definition player at a reasonable price - and no $500 for BD just on a PS3 is not reasonable to me because i dont care about video games.

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RE: Testing comments

By ioKain on 7/18/2007 1:25:06 PM , Rating: 3

Looks to be working now. LET THE HD FANBOI WARS BEGIN!!!

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RE: Testing comments

By Mitch101 on 7/18/2007 1:31:46 PM , Rating: 2

Test - If this goes through well I guess its working on existing threads but not for new ones.

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RE: Testing comments

By therealnickdanger on 7/18/2007 1:38:49 PM , Rating: 3

Kommetzz r teh br0ked.

To paraphrase:
"37% of our previous 48% forecast has been reduced by 12% due to a 31% rise in demand"

Seriously, I'm getting tired of this numbers game. All I need is a straigtforward 4-part chart:

1. BD hardware sales to date (PS3+PC drives included)
2. BD movie sales to date
3. HD hardware sales to date (360 add-on+PC drives included)
4. HD movie sales to date

And to be honest, I don't even need that. I buy both, so I don't really care.

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RE: Testing comments

By mdogs444 on 7/18/2007 1:45:46 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
1. BD hardware sales to date (PS3+PC drives included)

I see where you going, and yes, that would be easy. But its not conclusive. You cannot prove that everyone who bought a PS3 did so to watch BD movies. Its a difficult part of the equation because the 360 add on can only be used for movies right now.

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RE: Testing comments

By therealnickdanger on 7/18/2007 1:51:08 PM , Rating: 4

Y'know, I've heard that excuse before and I've even used it, but it's time to let it die and just accept it as a BD player. It's a BD player, plain and simple, it should be counted. The fact that people do or don't buy it to watch movies will be shown clearly by either a lack of or overabundance of BD movies sold. There's no logic in excluding the PS3.

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RE: Testing comments

By mdogs444 on 7/18/2007 1:53:45 PM , Rating: 2

Just so you know....they didnt count the PS2 or Xbox in standard DVD Hardware Sales either. It is what it is, a mixed product that you cannot prove or disprove its intended use or its use after purchase.

Some play games and movies, some just play games, some just play movies.

inconclusive results either way.

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RE: Testing comments

By greenchasch on 7/18/2007 2:40:28 PM , Rating: 2

> "There's no logic in excluding the PS3. "

Of course there is. Claiming full credit for every PS3 sold is like saying cigarette use is up because car sales with included cigarette lighters are rising.

The PS3 is a multi-function device. Some people buy it to watch movies, some don't. Counting it as much as a standalone player is just silly.

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RE: Testing comments

By therealnickdanger on 7/18/2007 2:50:09 PM , Rating: 4

But we're living in a much different tech culture than the late 90s. The PS2 (and the Xbox especially) came out after DVD was already entering the mainstream. I know that I owned two sub-$200 players by the time the PS2 hit U.S. shores. There were also no competing formats to DVD. There were no "home theater PCs". Videogames were still considered by and large as kids toys and didn't yet have a center seat in the "home theater".

I know what you're saying and it made sense 6/7 years ago, but now the culture has changed dramatically. "Do it all" devices are more commonplace, less expensive, and easier to use. The masses, while still suckers for slick marketing slogans, are becoming much more knowledgeable and proficient at using these new toys. One glance at the AVS Forums - the ultimate videophile nerdland - and the PS3 is widely purchased as a BD player. These are guys that obsess over the most asinine aspects of PQ.

Sure, the early adopter named Old Man Winter might not buy the the PS3 in favor of a more expensive set-top, but the growing technophile crowd of 18-to-34-year-olds sure will. Most of them grew up playing videogames and now they have access to a gleaming machine that can play music, videos, DVDs, BDs, as well as all the games they used to love.

There are more reasons to accept the PS3 as a player than not, IMO.

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RE: Testing comments

By greenchasch on 7/18/2007 2:57:46 PM , Rating: 2

> "One glance at the AVS Forums - the ultimate videophile nerdland - and the PS3 is widely purchased as a BD player"

What does this have to do with anything? SOME people may purchase a PS3 as a BD player. SOME people do not. My own unit has played a total of one BD movie since I bought it, and that was the free one that came with the console.

If someone buys a standalone player, they're buying it to watch movies with. Thats it. Thats why those count heavier.

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RE: Testing comments

By omnicronx on 7/18/2007 3:03:55 PM , Rating: 2

NOBODY LISTENS TO TECHNO!! .. had to get that out sorry..

quote:
but the growing technophile crowd of 18-to-34-year-olds sure will

are we suppose to be surprised the ps3 is selling well to their main demographic?? nobody is denying the ps3 is not a good bd player., especially with the recent updates allowing 720p and dvd upscaling. This aside that does not mean that everyone who buys a ps3 will use it for high def content. If just 5-10 people who bought the ps3 actually bought and used it for movies it would probably be outselling hddvd 10 or 15-1 instead of 3-1. The real number is probably closer to 1 or 1.5 out of 10 people actually use their blueray player for more than the free bd movie that come with it. of course this number could rise as popularity is gained, but at this moment in time its just not there, so using it in a comparison is just plain silly and in the world of statistics all ps3 bd sales would be outliers in any report being made.

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RE: Testing comments

By TomZ on 7/18/2007 3:26:22 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
There are more reasons to accept the PS3 as a player than not

I disagree. The vast majority of people out there, probably much more than 90%, will want to pay $100-200 for a standalone player compared to $500-700 for a gaming system that can play games. Gaming systems are only appealing to those potentially interested in playing games, and have practically zero appeal to those who are not. Considering the cost differential, there is practically no chance of convincing these people to upspend for gaming.

In addition, in homes that have game consoles, you'll probably also see standalone players. Most homes have multiple TVs and may have different locations for watching movies versus playing games (e.g., games in kid's room, basement, etc.).

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RE: Testing comments

By Hawkido on 7/18/2007 4:24:53 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Most homes have multiple TVs and may have different locations for watching movies versus playing games

Most homes don't have multiple HDTVs. If your home has has a HDTV it will more than likely be in the room where you watch movies. The room where your only HDTV is, will also be where your PS3 will be as its primary feature is HDTV output on both games and Movies . Because only an XBox 360 owner would buy the HD-DVD addon for their xbox then watch HD movies on a SDTV when they have a HDTV in another room .

There now your point makes perfect since... Because you are an Xbox owner (or a wannabe).

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RE: Testing comments

By therealnickdanger on 7/18/2007 4:29:23 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
will want to pay $100-200 for a standalone player

That's my point. We have no such players yet. Technically, those consumers don't exist yet either. The PS3 is at the bottom of the BD-player price point. Back in 2001, the PS2 and Xbox were easily double the price of a better-equipped set-top player. Their price combined with their shoddy playback performance, the PS2 and Xbox were rarely considered for movie playback. That has changed this time around - at least for Blu-Ray.

We aren't talking about "upspending" for gaming, we're talking about "downspending" for movies. I believe the audience that would buy a PS3 for double-duty is much higher than you give credit... at least in this early stage of the game.

Over time, as the PS3 keeps its $500/600 pricepoint and set-top BD players hit $200 and below, the PS3 may fade as a driving force in BD hardware sales, but right now I believe the PS3 to be a viable player for early-adopter appeal due to its "low" price (as far as BD-players go). The very customers making up the current sales data are the early adopters, not the mainstream - obviously.

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RE: Testing comments

By TomZ on 7/18/2007 7:33:56 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
That's my point. We have no such players yet.

We will this year, at least we will have HD-DVD players in that price range this year (not sure about BD, but probably to be competitive, we'll have them too). Just watch Wal-Mart, for example - they've been rumored to come out with a pretty cheap player.

Based on that, buying a PS3 for $500+ just to watch HD movies is foolish, if you have no intention to play games. Standalone players are going to drive the market for HD movies, not the PS3. The PS3 is just the jump-start to get BD going, but it won't take it to full market acceptance. Only cheap standalone players can do that.

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RE: Testing comments

By therealnickdanger on 7/19/2007 8:48:34 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
buying a PS3 for $500+ just to watch HD movies is foolish

Once again, you're referring to mainstream buyers, not early adopters. You are also referring to the future, not the past or the present. The actions of early adopters often appear foolish to mainstream buyers... because they usually are, but somebody's got to do it. :P

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RE: Testing comments

By timmiser on 7/19/2007 12:41:00 AM , Rating: 1

quote:
There are more reasons to accept the PS3 as a player than not, IMO

If you do this then you should count every X360 sold...not just the HD-DVD add on because everyone that have bought the X360 will eventually buy the HD-DVD add on because just like the PS3, it would be safe to assume that everyone will be using it as a HD movie player.

A better way to measure the PS3 as an HD movie player would be to examine the ratio of X360 owners who have bought the HD-DVD player and apply that ratio to the PS3's sold so far.

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RE: Testing comments

By robinthakur on 7/19/2007 6:26:06 AM , Rating: 2

No, I think that's piffle, I have an Xbox360 and would never dream of buying the HDDVD add on, its not integrated at all, its an ADD-ON and therefore does not count. Only sales of the drive itself should be counted. I think the PS3 should also be counted. I seriously doubt anyone who buys it doesn't have the whole "And it plays High definition discs!" blurb spunked in their face at retail.

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RE: Testing comments

By mindless1 on 7/18/2007 5:24:14 PM , Rating: 2

Yes there is plenty of logic in excluding it, because it was not a consumer CHOICE of which format to buy, rather we can reasonably conclude those interested in buying a gaming console would have bought regardless of whether it was a BD drive. If the games were available on both disc formats and customers had the choice of equipping their console with either drive, THEN we could reasonably count this.

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RE: Testing comments

By SmokeRngs on 7/19/2007 8:57:07 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
it's a BD player, plain and simple, it should be counted.

Actually, it's a game console which contains a Blu-ray drive which can also play blu-ray movies.

As for being counted, I say go ahead. The only thing this would do is make Blu-ray look terrible. Attach rate is extremely important (whether anyone wants to believe it or not) and this would make the Blu-ray attach rate look horrible.

quote:
There's no logic in excluding the PS3.

Then why do I rarely ever see PS3's included in the overall number of Blu-ray players sold? Maybe I'm just missing something, but I always see the PS3 as a separate number alongside the number of standalone players. This includes numbers released from Blu-ray groups.

Ask yourself this: Why don't the Blu-ray groups include the PS3 in their overall numbers without some type of qualifying statement?

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RE: Testing comments

By afkrotch on 7/28/2007 12:50:25 AM , Rating: 2

Actually, it's marketed as a computer entertainment system. Nowhere on Sony's site will it be called a game console. Even the Xbox 360 isn't called a game console on Microsoft's site.

The problem with today's consoles is the fact that they are multi-purpose. They play games, HD movies, videos, music, display pictures, surf the net (minus Xbox 360), etc. They are hardly just a game console. Shoot, you can attach a printer to the PS3, install Linux, and so forth. The Xbox 360 allows you to download movies and tv shows. The Wii can provide the user with hours of exercise throughout the day.

Also Attach rate? Ummm...a few million PS3s out there and only 180,000 standalone HD-DVD players. Who knows how many HD-DVD drives sold for the Xbox 360, but I doubt the same number as how many PS3s have sold.

I can totally understand them leaving out the PS3 from the count though. Not ever user will buy movies for it. My friend has a PS3 and hasn't bought and doesn't plan to buy any blu-ray movies for it. Me...I've already bought 4 movies for mine. I plan to buy more, when I get a larger HDTV. Gotta save up for that, instead of buying games and movies.

Me...not interested in HD-DVD yet. I bought PS3 for games and it just so happened to come with blu-ray. With blu-ray sales outpacing HD-DVD, more blu-ray titles coming out, etc, I just haven't seen the need to dump $200 on an HD-DVD drive for my 360. Also having another freaking external box for the 360 would suck. Stupid gigantic power adapter. Why can't they shrink that bastard and fix the RRoD, while making wireless internal.

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RE: Testing comments

By deeznuts on 7/18/2007 1:54:20 PM , Rating: 3

How about real numbers instead of percentage growth?

A 5% decline doesn't seem like much, normal fluctuation. It isn't an increase, granted, but not that bad. And HD DVD's 27% increase or whatever in media sales is nice, but they started at a low percentage anyway so a 27% increase isn't that much ... about 5% of BD's sales, that's how much, since they're the only two parties in this race.

So, real numbers please?

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RE: Testing comments

By Oregonian2 on 7/18/2007 3:09:38 PM , Rating: 2

A decrease in something that is early in the growth cycle where there should be constant significant growth is itself significant I think. For old technology there may be cycles, but not for growth products, especially early in the growth cycle where the curves on the projected sales charts show steep growth. More likely the previous spurt was title-driven, and that being over the sales dropped.

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RE: Testing comments

By omnicronx on 7/18/2007 3:22:12 PM , Rating: 2

this is all great and dandy and you are dead on for the growth cycle of most products , but the high def wars have so many variables it is hard to make an accurate assumption based on these early results.

Blueray movie sales were high during the winter and spring months because of the movies that come out by their supporting companies. So a drop in sales could be attributed to ailing customer appeal or, it could mean the HD-DVD camp has had better movie releases over the past month or so, which i think happened, or at least they are much more even than the amount of blockbuster movies sony supporters released in the winter/spring.

I do not think either format is going away anytime soon.

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RE: Testing comments

By deeznuts on 7/18/2007 3:44:40 PM , Rating: 2

Exactly what I was going to say. Fluctuations happen, especially when you look at such short time periods. You have to analyze all periods, short and long, to get an accurate picture, instead of just short.

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RE: Testing comments

By Oregonian2 on 7/18/2007 5:09:38 PM , Rating: 2

Still pretty weak growth if the general growth pattern doesn't more than make up for variations . If anything it may just be a sign (at least for Blu-ray) that it's going to take a LONG time to become a mainstream product. Probably because regular DVD's are plentiful, cheap, and recordable. And possibly most folk don't have HDTV (another article says that CRT based TV's still dominate the world TV market).

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RE: Testing comments

By Hawkido on 7/18/2007 4:43:05 PM , Rating: 2

They can't give you real numbers... If they did you could decide for yourself. THEY HAVE TO DECIDE FOR YOU!

Really this is from the same marketing mind that did the deceptively omissive reports about attach rates and players sold in europe (Omit the PS3 from this report and get a number now use the number in this report where we include the PS3 because it makes us look better). I tried to work their math backwards but they didn't give real numbers, just soggy dribbles left over after the marketing trolls chewed them up into imaginary figures.

My thoughts are if 6 million PS3s are purchased and one PS3 owner buys one movie and watches it once. Put it in there. Same for HD-DVD Addon. It doesn't distort the numbers one little bit. Remember all the movie companies will go to the format that sells the most movies not the most players as they make "Jack Squanto" on the players.

"It's not a real player!" (millions of movies sold to PS3 owners, I beg to differ!)

"They are counting Give away movies in the numbers!" Actually no... they are not. The figures are generated by reciept purchases. So give-away movies don't count, that's why they always give away obscure or crappy movies.

Show us all the numbers, if HD-DVD is really winning show us all the numbers. I dare you.

This is a concerted Damage control media group that was brought in to generate false buzz to try and regain ground. It really is almost an identical story.

BD players sales down 27% ( NOT COUNTING PS3 SALES, which are now UP! there was a lull in sales because everyone knew a price drop was comming for the PS3) HD-DVD Player sales up ( NOT COUNTING XBOX360 AddOns because people quit buying AddOns for a Faulty system that will break, so now they buy stand alones.)

Neato! I see a perfect opportunity to Omit a variable to all the sudden turn a bleak outlook for HD-DVD into something rosey looking *SNIFF* *SNIFF* Aww, too bad it still smells like the crap it was before.

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RE: Testing comments

By greenchasch on 7/18/2007 4:54:25 PM , Rating: 1

> ""It's not a real player!" (millions of movies sold to PS3 owners, I beg to differ!)"

Rofl, the grand total sales of all BD discs sold just recently hit a million discs. Take away the sales from standalone player owners, and you have PS3 owners buying less than one disc per console.

That proves right there "most" people don't buy a PS3 to watch movies on it.

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RE: Testing comments

By Hawkido on 7/19/2007 4:47:06 PM , Rating: 2

Okay 1 million BR discs sold before it is even one year old (april 23rd 2007). How many HD-DVD disc have been sold to date, and how many months old is HD-DVD? 15 months old? Have they even crossed the 1 million mark yet? NO?

Sounds to me like PS3 has an astounding early impact on sales. Sounds to me like going BR exclusive at Block buster, has made a bigger splash. and that has only recently happened. That will drive sales up more for discs. It will also boost customer confidence in BR. As it will be the only HD format in BB stores (a few BB stores(~200) will still stock both). Will BR hit 2 million before HD-DVD hits 1 million? That would pretty much be the last nail wouldn't it? More BR exclusives than HD-DVD exclusives means no video store in their right mind would drop BR, but BB wasn't afraid to drop HD-DVD. Who's next? Video stores have a huge impact on which format wins (Porn rentals on VHS or BetaMAX). With this information, it makes it clear that HD-DVD brought in some damage-control marketing firm to try and spin up someting like good news. I bet Bill Gates' garage is full of HD-DVD movies he bought just to drive up sales numbers. He probably gives them away to MS employees and friends by the shopping cart load. Just to try and stuff the numbers.

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Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By Goty on 7/18/2007 2:00:15 PM , Rating: 2

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/8730/...

According to this article, PS3 sales were not included in the sales figures put out by the HD-DVD promotion group.

I can understand and even partially agree with not including the PS3 in the figures on the basis that it's not a Blu-Ray player first and foremost, but when you consider that it's one of the most fully-featured players on the market and certainly the best value for the money, you've really got to throw it in there.

RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By omnicronx on 7/18/2007 2:41:59 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
but when you consider that it's one of the most fully-featured players on the market and certainly the best value for the money, you've really got to throw it in there.

It also happens to be the most fully-featured player that nobody uses for movies!
You can argue all you want, but when it comes down to it, the ps3 is not the ps2. It is not going to bring the next gen format to the forefront like the ps2 did for dvds.

Having ps3 sales included in blueray player sales is pointless. Obviously nobody can prove any numbers but i would not be surprised if 1-10 people with a ps3's actually use their blueray player for more than the movie(s) that came with it. On the other end, standalone HD-DVD player sales are off because there is no console that natively plays hddvds so you really have no choice but to buy a standalone player if you go the HD-DVD route.

what makes matters even worse is that with movie company exclusivity, each format will have hot and cold months depending on the movie releases for that time period. This winter blueray had all of the big titles with casino royale etc etc.. but you just know the tides will at some time(it looks like they are now) will change to the hd-dvd side because of more popular movies being released on their side.

So in the end the statistics on either side are so flawed, we may not know who is winning this format war until we are 3 years in when we are able to look at nothing but movie sales of the 2 formats with both having their hot and cold months.

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By Parhel on 7/18/2007 3:54:56 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
It also happens to be the most fully-featured player that nobody uses for movies!

I would be surprised if that were true. Someone purchasing the PS3 has to realize that they are paying a premium of several hundred dollars over other consoles only to have a BluRay player.

I would guess that most people who purchase the PS3 do so because they want both a console and a BluRay player, and I think that the extremely low sales figures for the PS3 attest to that. I, for one, decided not to buy a PS3 because I don't want a BluRay player and I can have an 360 for the price of the PS3 minus the BluRay price premium. BluRay was the only factor that prevented me from purchasing a PS3. I am sure I'm not alone, and I'm sure that some people bought a PS3 for the exact opposite reason.

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By masher2

(blog) on 7/18/2007 5:18:27 PM , Rating: 1

> "Someone purchasing the PS3 has to realize that they are paying a premium of several hundred dollars over other consoles only to have a BluRay player"

I'm sure most PS3 buyers aren't intimately familiar with the entire console market, and the relative hardware and software differences between them. They bought a PS3 because they were happy owners of a PS2.

Personally, of the three people I know who own a PS3, at least one of them didn't even know it HAD a BD player, much less bought it for that reason.

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By Chaser on 7/18/2007 5:49:42 PM , Rating: 2

Guess the writing on the outside of the box didn't get noticed and the Taladega Nights BR DVD became a coaster.

But I'm 1 for 1. And I'm not a console buyer in the slightest. Until now.

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By afkrotch on 7/28/2007 1:31:54 AM , Rating: 2

I bought 4 blu-ray movies for my PS3, with plans to buy a whole lot more. I bought a Japanese PS3, so I didn't get a free movie.

No HD-DVD yet, cause nothing I really want to see on the format, that isn't available for blu-ray and throwing $200 for an HD-DVD drive for a POS console would suck (I'm on my 3rd Xbox 360 and I only bought my first one in Jan).

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By greenchasch on 7/18/2007 2:59:56 PM , Rating: 2

> "According to this article, PS3 sales were not included in the sales figures "

I'm talking about software and movie sales, not hardware. If those are declining now-- even by 5%-- then BD is in real trouble.

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By deeznuts on 7/18/2007 3:46:17 PM , Rating: 2

HD DVD declined by upwards of 50-60% after release of the PS3, are they dead?

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By greenchasch on 7/18/2007 4:56:23 PM , Rating: 2

Incorrect. HD-DVD total sales have increased every quarter since the format was introduced.

Their market share (percent of total sales) decreased when the PS3 was rleased. But their raw sales have always gone up.

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RE: Sales Figures do not Include PS3

By kg4alb on 7/18/2007 8:45:41 PM , Rating: 3

Of course total sales have increased, you can't unsell a product. Only the rate at which the product is being sold can decrease.

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I don't buy it

By Sparke on 7/18/2007 2:06:58 PM , Rating: 2

They can spin the numbers how they please, but the fact remains that Blu-Ray continues to outsell HD-DVD almost 3-1 since the PS3 came out. Ignoring the elephant in the room doesn't make it go away. 3+ million PS3's are driving Blu-Ray to become the standard. That and the *5* major studios that are Blu-Ray exclusive.

RE: I don't buy it

By greenchasch on 7/18/2007 2:38:13 PM , Rating: 2

spin how you like, but when a fledging new format like BD starts seeing declining sales, its bad news all around.

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RE: I don't buy it

By cubby1223 on 7/18/2007 4:52:11 PM , Rating: 2

What, and you're going to trust the HD DVD camp to accurately announce BD numbers? They still do not accept the PS3 as a player, what credibility do they have to report BD title sales? Their whole goal is to twist and slant the numbers to inflate their self-image.

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RE: I don't buy it

By Lightning III on 7/18/2007 4:02:45 PM , Rating: 2

well if the HD DVD cabal will ever release a 100 dollar internal hd dvd reader drive they will capture the HTPC crowd instantly

instead of the butt ugly crappy 200 dollar USB add on that microshaft is pushing

perhaps they will incude it in with the falcon chip shrink

that would put sony behind the eightball

no matter what the PS3 boy's hope

history is starting to repeat itself

with 200 hundred dollar standalone players comming to wally world the gap will start to widen even more

because every body should be able to remember the clearly superior betamax format lose out to the cheaper VHS standard

so put down the pipe and hopefully some games will come out for that white elephant in your living room

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RE: I don't buy it

By Lightning III on 7/18/2007 4:06:57 PM , Rating: 1

IS IT BETA RAY OR BLU MAX

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$100 HD-DVD with 3 Free Movies.

By Mitch101 on 7/18/2007 2:14:52 PM , Rating: 2

I hear that Toshiba is going to have a 1 week $100 HD-DVD Player with 3 Free Movies soon to boost interest.

It originally was thought to be a show special but because the dates dont match it could be a consumer offer.

Im willing to take a $100 chance and with 3 free movies why not. Of course I dont expect the 3 free movies to be great movies but its a start.

RE: $100 HD-DVD with 3 Free Movies.

By SirLucius on 7/18/2007 2:46:21 PM , Rating: 2

If that's true I may just have to pick one up. That's a deal that's far too good to pass, even if the movies are crappy or they weren't offered at all.

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RE: $100 HD-DVD with 3 Free Movies.

By Mitch101 on 7/18/2007 3:09:36 PM , Rating: 2

TOSHIBA HD DVD PLAYER for ONLY $99 PLUS 3 FREE HD DVD's

For one week only, starting July 22, 2007, Toshiba will be offering the [$299] HD A2 player for only $99. With your purchase you will also receive 3 HD DVD's.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/dealzmodo-rumor/100-hd-...

Jury still out on if the deal is for consumers but its worth watching out for.

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RE: $100 HD-DVD with 3 Free Movies.

By Mitch101 on 7/18/2007 3:12:46 PM , Rating: 2

DARN!!!

It turns out that the Home Media Expo (with no support from Toshiba) is offering this promotion to attendees as a bonus during their registration process, which we confirmed with their management. As we suspected, it's a deal for the trade show only. You can go back to your regularly scheduled too-cheap-for-HD spending habits

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/sorry/toshiba-not-offer...

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The expert posters on Daily Tech

By Chaser on 7/18/2007 4:17:22 PM , Rating: 2

Well lets see, you can either believe the collective global marketing and consumer rental/purchasing geniuses that post on Daily tech OR the bean counters of Blockbuster Inc. a global provider of in-home rental and retail movie and game entertainment, with over 9,000 stores in the United States, its territories and 24 other countries.

Um I think I'll side with the latter at least for now.

RE: The expert posters on Daily Tech

By masher2

(blog) on 7/18/2007 5:21:27 PM , Rating: 2

> "....OR the bean counters of Blockbuster Inc"

The Blockbuster bean-counters were quite happy with the number of beans provided by Sony to clinch the exclusive deal.

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RE: The expert posters on Daily Tech

By Chaser on 7/18/2007 5:29:17 PM , Rating: 2

Missouri.

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RE: The expert posters on Daily Tech

By Chaser on 7/18/2007 5:34:11 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Blockbuster said that consumers have chosen Blu-ray over HD DVD in the 250 stores where both were available.

The limited choice of titles in the HD DVD format was also a factor in focusing on Blu-ray, Blockbuster said.

"The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, senior vice president of merchandising at Blockbusters, told the Associated Press news agency.

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Blu Ray sales dropping?

By greenchasch on 7/18/2007 2:10:40 PM , Rating: 2

Oof, thats gotta hurt. More than total sales or market share, a dropping sales rate is indicative of real problems under the hood.

RE: Blu Ray sales dropping?

By Sparke on 7/18/2007 2:43:54 PM , Rating: 2

I don't see any mention from an independent party that BD sales are declining.

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RE: Blu Ray sales dropping?

By omnicronx on 7/18/2007 2:49:12 PM , Rating: 2

You can find articles around the web showing it is true, but coming from sony themselves, this is only when ps3 everywhere and pcdvdroms in europe are not included.

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Comments Working

By JohnCampion

on 7/18/2007 1:50:55 PM , Rating: 2

New comment threads should be working now. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No one else pointed this out.

By michal1980 on 7/18/07, Rating: -1

RE: No one else pointed this out.

By onereddog on 7/18/2007 6:36:12 PM , Rating: 2

These figures are only marginal figures, so it only talks of the percentage differences between each month.
Although what you're saying is probably still right, I just wanted to point out that without the starting figures percentage figures are fairly useless.

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RE: No one else pointed this out.

By afkrotch on 7/28/2007 1:40:51 AM , Rating: 2

Very true on that one. It can paint an entirely different picture if I were to say this.

HD-DVD

hardware sales up ~40% from 2 standalones sold per month
software sales up ~20% from 30 titles sold per month

Blu-ray

hardware sales down ~30% from 1,000,000 standalones sold per month
software sales down ~5% from 100,000,000 titles sold per month

Starting figures can make a huge change in theh overall meaning.

------ none of these figures are real, just to show onereddog's point ------

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