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HD DVD Group downplays Sony's deal with Target

Target revealed last week that it would begin carrying the Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray Disc player this October. The announcement was significant as the Sony player would be the retailer’s only standalone high-definition movie player product throughout the holiday season.

As much as some may mark this as a victory for Blu-ray Disc supporters, the HD DVD Group views it as just another marketing initiative by Sony.

“All they are announcing is they are merchandising an endcap with Blu-ray, which is normal merchandising at any retailer,” Ken Graffeo, co-president of the North American HD DVD Promotional Group, said to Home Media Magazine. “Just like HD DVD has a dedicated endcap at Best Buy, and a dedicated endcap at Circuit City, and dedicated space and fixturing at Wal-mart.”

“Target is not making any statement about the format. They are merely providing an endcap, with a cost associated with it,” Graffeo continued. “The question I ask is, knowing that HD DVD is the most affordable high-definition format, it will be very interesting to see how the Sony player will appeal to Target guests.”

Sony, on the other hand, sees the move as a considerable victory and a sign of retailer preference. David Bishop, president of Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, said, “I think what you’re seeing is that retailers are deciding... This is the beginning of a trend. Retailers are very impatient now.”

“It’s not like DVD sales are in rapid growth mode the way they were three or four years ago. They are flat or in a state of decline, and retailers can no longer wait for us to figure this out,” said Bishop. “We think this is a big step in clarifying the decision to the consumer.”

Target spokeswoman Brie Heath said last week, “We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format,”

“HD DVD players are the most affordable,” added Graffeo. “It's one thing to have a player featured, but it's another if it doesn't sell.”

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Woooooooooo!!!!
By alifbaa on 7/30/2007 8:26:45 AM , Rating: 2
I'm getting dizzy from all this spinning...

And what's that smell? Did someone let a bull loose?

I'm not a fan of either format. Having said that, it seems to me that if most of the major studios have gone with BR, Blockbuster has gone with BR, and now a major retailer is selling only BR, it isn't a good thing for the HD-DVD guys.

In my mind, good riddance. I don't care which format wins. If anything, I'm rooting against Sony. But the sooner we can get this over with, the sooner real competition can begin and both the cheap and better manufacturers can get in on this so prices can start dropping and features can start increasing.

Maybe we'll even get a decent player at a decent price before direct download takes off.




RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By killerroach on 7/30/2007 8:49:46 AM , Rating: 2
The Target here still has a rather sizable collection of HD-DVD movies for sale... heck, at the moment, it's larger than their space for Blu-Ray offerings (granted, most of the HD-DVD titles are hybrid DVD/HD-DVD, but they're still there in large numbers in spite of the rather rough $29.99-$34.99 price tag).

I think the HD-DVD camp needs to calm down a bit and realize that, so long as Target still has the titles in its stores, that's the bigger issue. If they decide to stop carrying them... then it could be cause for genuine concern. As it is, I think Target made a tough choice over which player would occupy the back corner shelf of the Home Electronics department and gather dust.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By masher2 (blog) on 7/30/2007 9:25:11 AM , Rating: 5
> " (granted, most of the HD-DVD titles are hybrid DVD/HD-DVD, but they're still there in large numbers in spite of the rather rough $29.99-$34.99 price tag)"

In my opinion, that hybrid format is doing more to hurt HD-DVD than help it. Longterm, the cost of the player is nothing compared to media costs...and those hybrid discs just aren't worth the extra money. Worse, when a studio chooses to release a particular flick in that hybrid format, they rarely master an HD-DVD only option.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By CorrND on 7/30/2007 11:53:40 AM , Rating: 2
I agree -- I generally avoid the hybrid discs because the price is outrageous. You can almost buy two normal HD-DVDs for the price of some hybrid discs.

I also think the Blockbuster choice of Blu-ray is overblown because it only affects the stores. They still rent HD-DVD through the mail.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By GlassHouse69 on 7/30/2007 1:30:54 PM , Rating: 2
eh, people go into the store a LOT more than use the mail portion.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By CorrND on 7/30/2007 4:12:18 PM , Rating: 2
Do you have a reference for that comment?

If that's true, my friends and family must be very abnormal because only one member of my family doesn't have a Blockbuster/Netflix mail subscription and that's because they don't rent at all. Everyone else has a subscription.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By deeznuts on 7/31/2007 3:31:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Do you have a reference for that comment?


http://sev.prnewswire.com/entertainment/20070726/L...

Can always deduce these things by earnings reports.

Rental revenues:
Base movie rental revenues-in-
store $1,267.3 62.8%
Base movie rental revenues-
online 241.6 12.0%

That's for 26 weeks ending July 1, 2007. It should be noted that online revenues are increasing however.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By omnicronx on 7/30/2007 2:55:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I also think the Blockbuster choice of Blu-ray is overblown because it only affects the stores. They still rent HD-DVD through the mail


Probably only because netflix still offers both =P
Yet more proof that sony is buying out every retailer they can get their hands on. If Blockbuster was really supporting only bd, they should not be selling HD-DVD's at all!


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By VoodooChicken on 7/30/2007 12:20:54 PM , Rating: 2
Target's decision is only about hardware players, not the movies themselves. Target will continue to stock HD DVD as long as they continue to make a profit for them, same as every other item in the place.
As it is, this article is mentioning only ONE particular Blu-Ray player, so they are merely "toeing the water" to see whether this dedicated player is a hit or not. I imagine they'll still sell the PS3 and the XBox HD DVD drive.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By Oregonian2 on 7/30/2007 2:31:32 PM , Rating: 2
And the exclusivity of that one player is only for the next five months. Original press said it was just through the upcoming holiday season.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By PsychoPif on 7/30/2007 8:53:20 AM , Rating: 1
I doubt having only one format over two while drive innovation faster. I believe it will be the opposite.

Even more, those who are ready to go to these new standard are few, I'd rather see the war go on until most are ready to switch. This way, we don't see DVD going anywhere for a couple of year. Maybe that would show to the big corps that customer don't want or need a new format every 10 years.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By GreenyMP on 7/30/2007 9:59:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Maybe that would show to the big corps that customer don't want or need a new format every 10 years.


Each of us has our own priorities/desires. But for me, a new high definition format was so long in coming, that I could barely stand it. But for non-early adopters a new format can only help reduce prices for the current format media. And its not like DVD is going away any time this decade. Look at VHS. You can still buy VCRs and VHS media all over the place. And DVD has been mainstream now for how many years?

Anyway, my point is that nobody is forced to upgrade. But "the big corps" are only providing a new format because I demanded it. (Five years ago)


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By mdogs444 on 7/30/2007 8:55:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Having said that, it seems to me that if most of the major studios have gone with BR, Blockbuster has gone with BR, and now a major retailer is selling only BR, it isn't a good thing for the HD-DVD guys.


I agree, but even though many of the good studios have signed on with BD, there are still ones out there that are going HD. And some that will do both, so either way, its not a fair assessment yet.

Also, as a personal preference, I am hoping that HD-DVD is able to take off. My only reasons right now are the affordability of the stand alone players. I dont want a PS3 because A) I dont play video games, and B) I need something that matches my Home Audio system. My GF would kill be if i put that UFO looking this in our family room. Also, as far as branding goes, I am preferencial to Toshiba, because they have been around a long time and their quality is great. I love my 42" Toshiba lCD television.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By vdig on 7/30/2007 9:46:27 AM , Rating: 2
The PS3 looks like one of those fictional UFOs? Hardly. I personally think it looks more like those personal, George Forman type grills, as many others point out. Still, having something that looks like a kitchen appliance next to your TV and/or DVD players... that's why I have a shelf, away from the monitor and other typical looking electronics. Even worse, I've seen images of the PS3 DVD remote - fugly too. All people need to know is that the kitchen like appliance has component and optical wires coming out from the back, snaking it's way to somewhere, and a wire connected to a PS2 like pad.

I can see why one would like to see one side win over the other, but not for the cosmetic reason you gave. For cosmetic purposes, you can get a regular BR player. That would look much more acceptable than a grill. The reason I can come up with to want a side to win is that it may bring the prices for the consumer down faster, instead of waiting for the hybrid players to reach the mainstream price. Still, I don't want one side to win too soon. The last thing I want is for the competition for our money to end before prices get tolerable enough to create decent demand, which should drive the prices down further. Then again, this is a simple minded view of things. I myself could not care which wins at the moment.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By mdogs444 on 7/30/2007 9:55:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can see why one would like to see one side win over the other, but not for the cosmetic reason you gave.


Actually, what i said was that I would like a standalone player for cosmetic reasons. That is not why i would choose one format over the other.

The reasons that I would choose one format over the other is what i posted - price and branding. I want affordable, and it just so happens that one format is over $200 cheaper. I do have brand preferences, and I personally like the Toshiba brand.

Nothing against sony, ms, lg, samsung, etc. Just personal preferences.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By GreenyMP on 7/30/2007 10:05:40 AM , Rating: 2
I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing. But I will point out that a large percentage of consumers will buy solely on cosmetics. It happens with $30,000 vehicles and it happens with $500 home electronics. It may not make sense to you or me, but someone at Apple understands it.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By mdogs444 on 7/30/2007 10:32:38 AM , Rating: 2
Well in defense of buying on cosmetics - i do not buy SOLELY based on it, but I do expect to get things that look how i like them to.

Unfortunately, in today's age, $30k isn't in the upper echelon of cars anymore. In fact, its probably considered the affordable middle class. Now id the day when the typical Chevy and Ford cost upwards of $30k. So when you can buy an entry level BMW, Lexus, or Acura for the price of a loaded Chevy, who wouldnt?

FOr example, I drive an Audi A4. Could I have purchased something cheaper? Sure. But not only do i love the looks of it, i thoroughly enjoy the nice interior, as well as the peppy 4cyl turbo charged motor....not to mention in the Ohio snowbelt, all wheel drive comes well in handy.


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By ArneBjarne on 7/31/2007 5:46:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Even worse, I've seen images of the PS3 DVD remote - fugly too.


Then you must think practically all Sony remotes are ugly, because it pretty much follows their standard CE remote design and looks very similar to eg. the BDP-S300 remote.

PS3 BD remote: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/10/...

BDP-S300 remote: http://www.blurayfreak.com/images/blurayplayersony...


RE: Woooooooooo!!!!
By theapparition on 7/31/2007 7:42:50 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, all sony remotes are ugly, and not very functional compared to competitive offerings (multifunction universal remotes).

However, the biggest issue with the PS3 as a standalone BR player (besides its non-traditional component look) is the remote itself. It doesn't work via IR/RF, so that was a major deal breaker for me. I want 1 remote to control everything. That's why I bought both a standalone BR player and HD-DVD.


Electronics at Target?
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2007 11:55:49 AM , Rating: 2
I dont recall the last time I bought an electronic item at Target except for rechargable batteries.

Does anyone look to Target for thier high end electronics?




RE: Electronics at Target?
By vortmax on 7/30/2007 12:25:35 PM , Rating: 2
If they are less expensive, then yes.


RE: Electronics at Target?
By HardwareD00d on 7/30/2007 1:03:31 PM , Rating: 1
Exactly why I think Target's choosing BD players over HD-DVD was dumb. Their target audience is more budget/value oriented and Sony charging $200 more is not that.


RE: Electronics at Target?
By omnicronx on 7/30/2007 3:07:54 PM , Rating: 2
Meh target gets publicity out of it no matter what (your talking about it now are you not??) and probably money from sony to be pulling this stunt in the first place. Although you are perfectly correct they are probably dumb for choosing the player with a higher pricepoint when they are a budget/value store, this would probably benefit target in the end.

remember they still sell HD-DVDS just not he players ;)


RE: Electronics at Target?
By bighairycamel on 7/30/2007 3:32:37 PM , Rating: 3
I disagree. In my region of the country (midwest) Target is seen as a more upscale store relative to WalMart or K-Mart. Most medium-high or high income shoppers scoff at the thought of stepping foot inside a Wal-mart (not kidding, you should see the looks on their faces if you mention the name), and go to Target as their store of choice.


RE: Electronics at Target?
By mdogs444 on 7/30/2007 3:50:38 PM , Rating: 2
Im from Columbus, OH (and most recently from Chicago, IL), and i can vouche that Target here is looked to as the upper echelon of standalone department stores. Its viewed as an upscale walmart/kmart....and rightfully so. They have much higher quality/priced items: clothing, furniture, and more expensive brand names (not just electronics).


RE: Electronics at Target?
By CorrND on 7/30/2007 4:33:45 PM , Rating: 1
Same here in Indy. And count me among the many that won't even think of stepping foot in Wal-Mart.


RE: Electronics at Target?
By deeznuts on 7/31/2007 3:34:36 AM , Rating: 2
Ditto here in San Diego. Mention walmart and everyone let's out a sigh. I think everyone still goes there sometimes on the DL, but they feel dirty doing so.

That said Best Buy, Circuit City are where most go to look at electronics. Target only for media.


Microsoft vs Sony
By richardhg on 7/30/2007 9:06:34 PM , Rating: 2
This battle is very much related to whom is going to control the HD environment in the US. Microsoft have a huge investment in Xbox 360 and a commitment to the HD DVD format that is pretty profound. Sony have combined their PS3 environment with Blu Ray which means this really is going to come down to a Sony-Microsoft battle, and I would back Microsoft. Why? because they have the money to spend, and the profitability. If you look at Sont, they make about 25% of the profits of Microsoft, and have a wildly complex array of lower margin products to attend to. Microsoft is focusing on the high ground, and have about $12 billion a year plus to play with, and a huge R&D budget to dedicate to any project. The Wii is the unexpected entrant that has dented both PS3 and Xbox 360 sales, but not for long. At the $170 mark, the add-on HD-DVD payer for the Xbox pays for itself with 5 free movie titles. You really have to be committed to buy a Blu Ray player at the current pricing, and I do not have a lot of hope for Sony in this ongoing battle. Watch for indie labels doing a lot more with HD-DVD than Blu Ray.




HD-DVD is crap
By LiptonGreenTea on 7/31/07, Rating: 0
HD-dvd all the way
By xxsk8er101xx on 7/30/07, Rating: -1
RE: HD-dvd all the way
By melgross on 7/30/2007 2:18:37 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree. I think that BD is coming up fast.

Anyone who thinks that the pricing between the two formats will stay as far apart as it is isn't paying attention.

While the price gap was over $600 for the lowest priced players in each camp, it's now closer to $200.

The price of BD will continue to drop more quickly than that of HD-DVD.

In a year, the difference won't be all that much. Meanwhile BD movies will continue outselling their HD-DVD rivals, but by even greater percentages.


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By Timeless on 7/30/2007 2:22:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
your dvd's you have no cannot play on your blu-ray player while it can on the hd-dvd player.


I think I read somewhere that both formats have backward compatibilities. Someone posted about it. I'll try to find it.


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By tanstaffl on 7/30/2007 2:23:37 PM , Rating: 3
Blu-ray plays all my dvd's just fine. Even upscales them. Not to mention dvd/rw +- sacd and more


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By Future145 on 7/30/2007 2:47:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
and you get 5 free movies with it.

you get 5 free movies with blu-ray too.

quote:
If you don't have an xbox or a computer to run hd-dvd (xbox's player works with the pc)

most people don't have their PCs hooked up to their HDTVs.

quote:
your dvd's you have no cannot play on your blu-ray player while it can on the hd-dvd player.

where the hell did you read that from, blu-ray players can play regular dvds as well as any HD-DVD player.


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By omnicronx on 7/30/2007 3:03:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
you get 5 free movies with blu-ray too.


The 360 addon only costs 179.99 now.. the cheapest bd player is 300$ and i think as memory serves only 1080i.

quote:
most people don't have their PCs hooked up to their HDTVs.

and this is a trend that will change as more people move to HD-DVD/BD and HDTV's in general.

quote:
where the hell did you read that from, blu-ray players can play regular dvds as well as any HD-DVD player.


Actually although many do play DVD's, it is up to the manufacturer to implement it, and is not part of the BD spec since the laser is not natively compatible with dvds , whereas it is with HD-DVD.

from the sony site:
quote:
Although this is not a requirement of the Blu-ray Disc format, it is very likely that all Blu-ray Disc products will play their DVD and CD counterpart formats. Compare this to the ability of today's DVD players to play CDs. Most companies have developed laser components and pickup units being able to read CD, DVD and BD.


So it is easily possible that many lower end players will not have dvd playback to save on costs.


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By Future145 on 7/30/2007 4:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The 360 addon only costs 179.99 now.. the cheapest bd player is 300$ and i think as memory serves only 1080i.


that is true, but it is an Add-on which means it must be connected to a xbox 360 or PC, whereas $300 give you a standalone unit for those with neither hooked up to their TV. I read somewhere that they are making a $200 blu-ray player not sure of its true or not.

personally i think this format war is bad for the consumer.


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By AlexWade on 7/30/2007 3:30:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
your dvd's you have no cannot play on your blu-ray player while it can on the hd-dvd player.


Actually, not entirely right. DVD compatibility is not guaranteed with Blu-Ray, although all players support it because manufacturers aren't that stupid.


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By tanstaffl on 7/30/2007 5:29:54 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't the xbox elite hdmi the 1.2 version? That means no 7.1 surround, right?


RE: HD-dvd all the way
By jadedeath on 7/31/07, Rating: 0
WE NEED COMPETITION
By JonnyDough on 7/30/07, Rating: -1
"Spreading the rumors, it's very easy because the people who write about Apple want that story, and you can claim its credible because you spoke to someone at Apple." -- Investment guru Jim Cramer











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