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Universal's American Gangster to be next big HD DVD exclusive
HD DVD still believes that there is still much territory to be claimed

Even with the tide apparently shifting in Blu-ray Disc’s favor, the HD DVD camp isn’t about to relent in the on-going high-definition format war. HD DVD still commands a significant portion of exclusive content and the most affordable hardware, giving the format a fighting chance – and nobody believes in HD DVD more than Universal Studios executive vice president Ken Graffeo, who also serves as the co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.

The HD DVD Group was rather mum on Warner’s surprise announcement right before CES to go Blu-ray Disc exclusive and cancelled its Sunday press conference. Graffeo, speaking to BetaNews, explains, “We heard about the whole move when everyone else did – when a lot of us were on planes flying to CES in Las Vegas ... If we had our press event on Monday, it would have been different, but because it was right there on Sunday and we heard Friday afternoon we couldn't even get to everybody ... The entire flow of the presentation would have had to been changed. When we found out at the last minute, we had to regroup and say ‘Toshiba, what are you doing?’ and we didn't have any answers.”

With HD DVD losing movie releases from Warner Bros. starting June, the HD DVD landscape could change drastically – something that the Promotional Group doesn’t yet have an answer for. “To be very honest with you, we have not addressed that yet,” Graffeo admitted. “Warner is still releasing HD DVD titles up until May. Warner has always been in two formats, and prior to Paramount's switch, they had been in two formats, so now that Warner is exclusive... we just haven't addressed it yet.”

One of the first rumors from Daily Variety to hit following Warner’s move was that Universal and Paramount were both poised to make the switch to Blu-ray Disc, but Graffeo refutes such reports. “I want to say that none of those rumors were substantiated. Nobody ever talked to us. I know nobody talked to Paramount ... This is business as usual for us and there are no plans to make any changes.”

One part of HD DVD’s new strategy is on lower prices and selling the hardware’s ability to upscale regular DVD movies. Graffeo explained the logic behind the new push, “Consumers right now are buying upconverting players – they are outselling the next-gen players combined by 10 to 1 every month. They are affordable because they are under $200 – the average price is $85 – and consumers want to see their movies better. So pricing is very important.”

As part of Toshiba’s new promotional plan, HD DVD hardware across the board dropped in price. Introduced on January 13, the price of the entry-model HD-A3 is $149.99, the HD-A30, with 1080p output, $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35, $299.99. Graffeo, along with the entire HD DVD Group, hopes that the entry-level HD-A3 will entice a whole new group of consumers.

“We saw that on DVD: as soon as price point went under $200 and as soon as it started getting close to $100 players really started taking off because you're hitting very consumer-friendly prices,” he said. “If you want to hit the mass market, you have to be consumer-friendly in price. If you want to be a niche electronic, you're going to be high priced.”

It is the HD DVD Promotional Group’s belief and hope that sales of its players and software will grow exponentially as the mainstream consumer experiences high-definition movies. “1 million units starts word of mouth – people get exposed, people see it. When you're dealing with 200,000, you're at the early adopters and that's not really going to spread.”

Even with the latest sales numbers leaning in Blu-ray Disc’s favor, the overall high-definition market is still insignificant compared to standard DVD sales. According to Graffeo, 35 percent of households have HDTVs, but only 12 percent receive HD programming, and an even smaller percentage have a high-definition movie player. For this reason, Graffeo feels that HD DVD still has a lot of potential.

The Group most recently announced that it has sold over 750,000 HD DVD players total just after Thanksgiving shopping week. With holiday sales added, current day numbers could be near 1 million, giving Graffeo a reason to expect a spike in HD DVD uptake.

“That's why HDTVs finally started taking off, because consumers walked into their neighbors' houses and said ‘Look at that flat thing on the wall,’ that's great. You saw in November and December, everyone was aggressive with pricing. You could see how consumers are willing to buy HD movies when you get to an affordable price,” he said. “Most people are very happy with their DVD, but when they see a 1080p movie, it blows them away.”





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Dropping the prices won't help.
By reader1 on 1/25/2008 5:35:38 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
We saw that on DVD: as soon as price point went under $200 and as soon as it started getting close to $100 players really started taking off because you're hitting very consumer-friendly prices


This situation is very different. Those DVD players played all movies but studio exclusivity forces people to buy two players or hybrids that are twice as expensive. Also, DVD was never in danger of being discontinued while HD-DVD is. Those two things make the low prices irrelevant.




RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By 9nails on 1/26/2008 1:04:12 AM , Rating: 5
Well said. Not to mention that DVD's major competitor was the analog VHS tape deck with inferior quality and longevity issues. When DVD's hit $100, the first thing I heard from many people was "Look, I don't have to rewind!" Many people got a boon when they rented a video and didn't have to first rewind the tape to watch it. But soon after, the pizza stuck to DVD's wore off the honeymoon. But the DVD had many other strengths and shortly after people realized those strengths and mass adoption ensued.

I'm not yet taking side, but I hear it from many that quality upsampling DVD player can camouflage the differences between DVD and HD DVD. That doesn't bode well for High Def when superior image is the format's major improvement over it's previous gen competition.

Blu-Ray is going to win simply because of the PS3's inclusion of the drive. If I were in the HD camp, I'd knock down Microsoft's door to get a HD drive into every Xbox 360 for little to no cost just to off-set this fact.


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 2:58:48 AM , Rating: 2
In the end, though, game consoles don't make up a large percentage of all available movie players. Once the price of movie players is low (as HD-DVDs are starting to get now) is when the mass market starts to consider owning one. The number of people who watch movies far exceeds the number of people who play video games.

HD-DVD/Blu-ray are both in a tough spot, though, because a decent upscaling DVD player image is pretty good, and Toshiba/Sony are going to have a tough sell to convince consumers to replace their DVD players with something that is only mildly better in their minds. Especially when any content purchased for those players is considerably more expensive and won't work on the players they already have.

The transition to HD from SD discs is, for all intents and purposes (because of consumer perception), evolutionary, where VHS to DVD was revolutionary. I don't envy either the position that either HD-DVD/Blu-ray are both in. I could maybe see people buying HD-DVD over an upscaling DVD player if the price difference is small even if the amount of available content isn't large (and this might be the only way that HD-DVD could be saved at this point), but double/triple/quadruple the price is a tough blue pill to swallow.


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By JoshuaBuss on 1/26/08, Rating: 0
By JoshuaBuss on 1/26/2008 12:20:38 PM , Rating: 1
I noticed I was rated down.. remember we're comparing this based on people who buy units to watch movies rented or bought at home.. that's a different statistic from people who 'see movies' in general..


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By Oroka on 1/26/08, Rating: 0
RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By gramboh on 1/26/2008 1:08:56 PM , Rating: 3
Upscaling is not even close to the same quality as HD on a decent TV. The problem is, if most HD sets out there are uncalibrated 720p entry level LCD's, the difference will not be as apparent.


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By blaster5k on 1/27/2008 11:39:08 AM , Rating: 3
Very true. I've found that upscaling looks closer to HD on 720p displays. On 1080p sets, it's obvious that the picture is blurry -- especially on movies filmed in aspect ratios that fill up the whole screen.

Anyone with a decent, calibrated set who claims that upscaled DVDs look like HD probably hasn't seen HD content to compare with. Either that, or they're watching from so far away that they might as well have an SD TV.


By robinthakur on 1/28/2008 6:14:33 AM , Rating: 2
I've got a 40" Samsung latest LCD set and watching blu Ray from my seating position running in 1080p/24 is actually hardly different from watching the equiavlent dvd from the same position upscaled. I think that If you were looking a big screen you might see the difference better but on 40" at about 5ft away, little to no difference I can see...Mayb e I'm going blind :(


By wallijonn on 1/29/2008 12:28:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyone with a decent, calibrated set who claims that upscaled DVDs look like HD probably hasn't seen HD content to compare with.


It depends on the up-converting player and the source movie. In the case of "The Chronicles of Riddick" the difference is subtle (usually greater sharpness, and in dark scenes there is no "molting") when watching through my Oppo 981HD. If one watches the last Star Wars movie (Episode III) the source is superb and looks great up-converted. But many SD films aren't mastered correctly and look awful on HDTV. And, no, it isn't just a matter of bit rate.

As far as up-converting goes, most people will let the HDTV do the up-scaling for them. You and I, who know how much better HDM looks, will look at their display and walk away in disgust; they will look at it and be quite pleased. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.


By neilrieck on 1/30/2008 10:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
I've got a Toshiba A30 connected to a 61" JVC (D-ILA) and can tell you that the upscaling feature on all manufactured DVDs I've tested is nothing short of fantastic. (Although you do have to use the on-screen maintenance panel of the A30 to tell it to go to 1080p; it defaults to only 1080i.) Now I need to point out that a ripped-DVD I received from a buddy at work is total crap. I guess it's a case of garbage-in garbage-out. You can't upconvert crap.


By neilrieck on 1/30/2008 10:39:30 PM , Rating: 2
You are correct. Game consoles (on both sides) were only being used to sway the opinions of studio execs. In the end the only thing that should have really mattered to them are media sales and rentals. Now I will admit that studios are biasing media sales and rentals by only publishing their product (entertainment) in one format or the other. That is why I thought it made more sense for them to develop hybrid format discs.


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By MADAOO7 on 1/27/2008 1:13:39 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
But soon after, the pizza stuck to DVD's wore off the honeymoon.
What?


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By iFX on 1/26/2008 4:53:02 AM , Rating: 5
Dropping the prices WILL help.

There are lots of folks who are staying out of this "war" because the prices on both sides are too high.

You start offering HD-DVDs for $20 or less and offer a decent player for $75.00 and I'll go out and buy tomorrow.

As it stands right now, both sides are too high priced and folks are staying out of it until one side lowers their prices considerably. People didn't start buying DVDs in earnest until there were $75.00 players and sub $20.00 movies.


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By DigitalFreak on 1/26/08, Rating: -1
RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By Davelo on 1/26/2008 2:59:04 PM , Rating: 2
If nobody buys Warner's BRDVDs because Joe Sixpack shopping at Walmart refuses to shell out $500 for a Blue ray player, watch how fast the studios jump ship. It's all about the bottom line especially in a down economy.

VHS beat Beta not because it was the better format. VHS was cheaper.


RE: Dropping the prices won't help.
By shabby on 1/26/2008 12:07:17 PM , Rating: 2
The only thing that will help is for one format to die off. How can any sane movie buff buy either format when the movies they love are on both formats?
This is the reason i haven't bothered buying hd players, unless theres a cheap combo player they can both go to hell.


By omnicronx on 1/26/2008 12:50:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
How can any sane movie buff buy either format when the movies they love are on both formats?
Do what i did, buy a ps3, then go get a cheap HD-DVD player. I went to BB yesterday and saw 3 openbox models. The A-30 usually sells for 350 here, and it was open box for 140.99 and the A-3 was only 100 ;)

I am having a field day on ebay getting all the HD-DVD titles I can.


By Shining Arcanine on 1/26/2008 6:57:13 PM , Rating: 2
The region restrictions and slow start times (most likely because of the DRM) of Blu-Ray players leave much to be desired. HD-DVD is not much better in the realm of start times, as when Blu-Ray players take 2 minutes to start, HD-DVD players take 1 minute to start, but they at least offer some sort of an improvement.


By neilrieck on 1/30/2008 10:16:49 PM , Rating: 2
You can't afford not to buy a Toshiba A30. First off, the unit only costs $199 and the upconverter does such a good job for hi-def TVs it will be a primo DVD player for years to come. Secondly, buy a Toshiba machine between now an March and you'll get 7 free HD-DVD titles. Two are in the box; you pick the other five from a list of 15 at the Toshiba web site. Thirdly, HD-DVD titles are now 35% off at Amazon.com. If more studio execs are bribed to drop HD-DVD and goverment anti-trust people aren't brought in to investigate, you can buy an additional blu-ray player next year when the prices drop.


HD DVD
By chrisld on 1/25/2008 5:32:46 PM , Rating: 5
If you read reviews for example at www.highdefdigest.com/ you will find that the BluRay and HD DVD discs contain the exact same file with the exact same quality. There is no superiority.

I would imagine in a world where both formats give an identical picture then the one that's half the price would win. If Sony triumph I can only imagine they made some fantastic deals with the movie companies and that Toshiba really dropped the ball on marketing.




RE: HD DVD
By mkruer on 1/25/08, Rating: 0
RE: HD DVD
By BansheeX on 1/25/08, Rating: 0
RE: HD DVD
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 3:04:35 AM , Rating: 2
And that's why average Joe Sixpack on the street knows that Blu-ray discs are better... because they know that Blu-ray discs have 50GB storage capacity. (In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic).

The average consumer knows nothing about disc capacity, DRM, region coding, etc. What they see is price and movie availability. HD-DVD's got the price advantage (by more than 50%), and soon Blu-ray will have the movie availability advantage. We're still kind of in a stalemate.


RE: HD DVD
By Helbore on 1/26/2008 10:11:15 AM , Rating: 2
The "average Joe Sixpack" won't care about the 50GB capacity. But studios will. After all, its not Mr. Sixpack who is worrying about how many episodes of a TV show he can cram onto a disk, or whether he can get lossless audio alongside all the extra features. You are looking at the wrong target when identifying who will care about storage capacity.

As for there being a stalemate because Blu-Ray has more titles, but HD-DVD has a lower price point, that doesn't really work. HD-DVD players could be sold for $1 a piece, compared to Blu-Ray players going at $500 each and no-one will buy the HD-DVD players if the studios stop putting films out on them. The price of the player is irrelavent when placed next to the media available for it.

This format war will be decided when we get Paramount and Universal to provide release schedules for the Christmas period and beyond. If they're still pressing HD-DVDs into 2009, then the war will drag on until Blu-Ray players come down in price. If they switch or go neutral, then HD-DVD, regardless of player price, is dead.

The honest truth is, I see no reason for the likes of Paramount to remain format neutral once this contract expires. They might ride it out for the 18 months specified, but at that point, they've made their profit off the big payoff and may as well switch back to a neutral state. Once that happens, Blu-Ray will dominate with exclusives and HD-DVD will have next-to-none. The consumers will go where the movies are available.


RE: HD DVD
By BansheeX on 1/26/2008 1:49:30 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The "average Joe Sixpack" won't care about the 50GB capacity.


The PS3 pushes this format into people's homes as a bonus. So all joe sixpack has to do if he as a PS3 is to realize he has blu-ray playback as well. I see Blu-ray being accepted now more than ever as a safety. HD-DVD consumers are the ones who have to sit there and rationalize their risk based on perceivable quality, sales, studio support, and manufacturer support. No matter how cheap single format HD-DVD players get, it will still be money diverted from the winning format if it loses, and it's much more likely to lose.


RE: HD DVD
By omnicronx on 1/26/2008 12:37:23 PM , Rating: 3
I love how everyone still thinks space is an issue regarding to the bitrate of movies. The VC-1 codec, which is what you see in dual release movies, is not effected by copious amounts of extra bandwidth like other formats such as mpeg2. Sony increasing the bitrate over that of an HD-DVD movie will give you little to no difference in quality.

Everyone also fails to mention that eventually every disc with True-HD or DTS-MA will also have to contain uncompressed PCM as per sony specs. This pretty much eats up a big chunk of the advantage BD has over HD-DVD.

Space issues with movies in the end will only effect the special features, nothing more nothing less. And considering the state of the different sony profiles, I would not consider this an advantage at all.

If the battle of BD vs HD-DVD was solely on the computer disc burning market, it would be a different story, but by the time either format becomes mass market, the disc capacity for PC use is going to double or triple from its current state.


RE: HD DVD
By BansheeX on 1/26/2008 1:34:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Space issues with movies in the end will only effect the special features, nothing more nothing less.


Is that why the flagship Transformers release has lossy audio?


RE: HD DVD
By omnicronx on 1/26/2008 2:04:57 PM , Rating: 2
In this case yes you are right, they chose to add special features instead of a lossless audio track.

But.. they also spent lots of time perfecting the dolby digital plus soundtrack, and actually won an award for best soundtrack this year over any other high def title weirdly enough for closest to the studio master.

I also imagine that if warner did not go so quickly over to BD, HD-DVD would have released 45GB media and player firmware updates.

I hope you do not think that we will be having one disc titles forever, on a 50GB BD. Just like DVD, the special features and gimmicks will continue to appear more in BD titles, space will become an issue. I imagine within the next 2 years either a capacity increase or dual disc BD sets. The profiles could come back to bite them in the ass here, with the possibility of not being able to expand the disc size of the format.Another reason why I think size is not an issue right now.


RE: HD DVD
By BansheeX on 1/26/2008 5:32:07 PM , Rating: 3
I think, at the core, it's disingenuous for HD-DVD fans to say average consumers care more about things they never did with DVD (PiP, ethernet, and regions) than things like 25gb single layer blank media or the best possible audio encoding possible (lossless). Unlike you, I don't see the new profiles as being an issue, much less a long-term one. 1.0 players not having the ability to play a PiP thingy in some discs's bonus content truly means less than nothing to most people. I actually wish it WASN'T adopted, because I consider it unnecessary bloat. So this issue is being totally overblown by a group who is desperate to find something to tout.


RE: HD DVD
By blaster5k on 1/27/2008 11:54:35 AM , Rating: 2
It may be "lossy", but Dolby Digital Plus has a much higher bit rate than Dolby Digital and 7.1 channels. You'd be hard pressed to notice a difference in sound quality between it and the lossless tracks.

With music, lossless is important since all you've got is the sound and you focus in on it. People with good systems will definitely hear a more "spacious" soundscape where the details of the instruments come out. When you're drawn into a film, you just don't notice those kinds of subtleties. If you do notice, you're probably not paying attention to the plot, which begs the question of why you're even watching.


RE: HD DVD
By wallijonn on 1/29/2008 12:56:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Everyone also fails to mention that eventually every disc with True-HD or DTS-MA will also have to contain uncompressed PCM as per sony specs. This pretty much eats up a big chunk of the advantage BD has over HD-DVD.


I believe Sony Studios is trying to get away from PCM because it takes up too much disc space.


RE: HD DVD
By omnicronx on 1/26/2008 1:38:56 PM , Rating: 4
I love going through your posts, you crack me up everytime.

quote:
This is why 75% of blu-ray titles have lossless audio while only 20% of HD-DVD discs do.
Not true, there are more True-HD titles on HD-DVD than on BD. I would know I specifically do not buy movies that do not have atleast uncompressed sound. Also any sony title that merely states (5.1 uncompressed) is only 44khz 16 bit sound(basically CD quality surround sound). As many normal DTS tracks although compressed are recorded in 96/24bit(which is better), I do not see this as an advantage. Only the titles clearly labeled 48khz/24bit can be considered next generation sound tracks, and are still a bit below that of a DTS-MA or True-HD soundtrack. So adding up BD titles that only have 48/24bit sound/True-HD/DTS-MA, HD-DVD stacks up much better.

quote:
Brand choice has also been limited to 1 on HD-DVD. Most people like to have broader selection of players.
Yes brand choice, I've always loved having that option with BD, I mean they all cost exactly the same, and they are just repackaged with different LCD displays and casings, but brand choice, totally makes the difference.</gasp>

quote:
In the end, you can whine all you want about slight DRM differences, PiP and Ethernet that no one even wished they had with DVD, and 0 vs 3 regions, but at the end of the day, the consumer doesn't really care about those small advantages compared to blu-rays much larger ones.
Yep all those advantages i just debunked in this post and my other post below. Goto love this great winning format!

I will once again state I have both players, so i really do not care. But i really do not like all the false information being spread about the superiority of one format over another. For movies neither format really has any extreme advantages over the other, except for the price, which amazingly is not swaying the masses towards HD-DVD. Poor marketing on Toshiba's part.

P.S Warner chose the winning format, not the consumer. Sales had just reached 50/50 the week of warners decision, not a bunch of BS advantages BD had over HD-DVD.


Let HD-DVD die..
By jaakobi on 1/25/2008 10:11:05 PM , Rating: 3
and let's all (legally) download our movies.
I'm so sick of scratched discs and whatnot. Blu Ray will never be as big as DVD as long as most houses don't have HDTV's. Plus us geeks can download our movies, and stick it to Sony. Also, for data archive and backup, large hard drives are the best.




RE: Let HD-DVD die..
By mcturkey on 1/26/2008 4:05:20 AM , Rating: 3
Scratched discs? Learn to take care of your stuff, man. I've never had an issue with any of the DVDs, HD-DVDs, or BR discs I've owned. OTOH, the cost of hard drive storage for my movie collection would be frighteningly expensive.

Short of a miracle, HD-DVD is going to lose this fight. Sony simply out-marketed them with BR. Having a huge number of players supporting BR means most movie studios look at it as a better revenue source than HD-DVD. They don't care at all if it's a standalone player or a PS3. All they care about is the potential base of customers, and BR wins out over HD-DVD by a huge margin.


RE: Let HD-DVD die..
By Hieyeck on 1/29/2008 10:12:36 AM , Rating: 2
Oh hay lewk. It's divx/xvid to the rescue.

That's the great thing about downloading/streaming movies. You can store it whatever the hell compression you want, meaning (with current popular compressions) if you wanted 1080p, it's about 1GByte per hour.

If studios started streaming/downloading services, it would be MUCH better for everyone. It costs them pennies to sell a movie online, which compared to buying from a store, equates to cheaper movies for you (and no sales taxes too!), and more profit for them. Not only that, servers would be located in North America, meaning no more Made In China :P


Blu-ray no good for rental
By griffynz on 1/26/2008 1:43:03 AM , Rating: 2
Speaking with the local boss of our video rental shop I was told that they HATE Blu-ray discs. Why? Because as she said
'don't they know children and lazy adult hire these movies'
They have already started replacing scratched discs that no longer play. Any they can't get them resurfaced as the protection layer is too small.
Thay prefer HD-DVD as the layer is the same as DVD. They have had no problems with their HD-DVD discs so far.




RE: Blu-ray no good for rental
By Aloonatic on 1/26/2008 4:59:51 AM , Rating: 2
This is why we can't have nice things.


RE: Blu-ray no good for rental
By Helbore on 1/26/2008 10:16:51 AM , Rating: 2
Really? What happened to that protective layer that is supposed to be on all Blu-Ray discs that is supposed to be able to survive being rubbed over by sandpaper?

IMO, all rental discs are shoody, even dvds. Maybe I've been unlucky, but whenever I rent, they're always battered discs that don't play properly.


The coming recession
By neilrieck on 1/28/2008 6:50:42 PM , Rating: 2
Food for thought. Before 2007-12-25 HD-DVD players were (on average) $125 cheaper than Blu-ray players. Since 2008-01-01 the HD-DVD players have dropped (on average) another $100.

Now we've all been hearing about gloomy things like: the on-coming recession, the sub-prime fiasco, North American manufacturing job losses to Asia, etc. and it seems to me that most people will have less discretionary money to throw around in 2008. In this recession, which could last 6-18 months, Joe consumer will probably only buy a replacement player and there is a good chance that it might support both DVD and HD-DVD since these things are getting kind cheap already. Also, studios would then save a ton of money by publishing either “combo disks” (DVD on one side; HD-DVD on the other).

If, for what ever reason, they still wish to publish two products, SD and HD, then they would be smart to publish “hybrid disks” (HD-DVD on one side and Blu-ray on the other) because the expected explosion of hi-def player sales just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Their only objective is to sell entertainment.




RE: The coming recession
By crystal clear on 1/28/2008 8:12:00 PM , Rating: 2
Yes the recession is on the way 2H 08 -all the economic indicators are showing it.

The Fed is taking stop gap measures by reducing interest rates,but it will not help in the long run.
You need a whole package of economic measures to tackle the problems facing the economy.
However much companies like Intel/AMD/Microsoft etc will say that it will not affect them,they themselves are fully aware of the consequences & are preparing themselves for that situation.
They dont wish to upset the wall street guys & keep the confidence of the investors /buyers in general.

Now its an economic slow then a recession,the spill over effect from the U.S. economy will be felt by other countries also.They also will be affected by the crisis.
High oil prices/energy cost hurt not only the U.S. economy but all the major economies of the world.

Its better to prepare yourself than fool yourself as if its business as usual.

Good you brought this topic for discussion.


article correction
By casket on 1/25/2008 10:13:08 PM , Rating: 3
"recently announced that it has sold over 750,000 HD DVD players total"
-- That was 2 months ago. They have since anounced 1 million players sole.




HD-DVD is dead.
By Chiggs on 1/27/2008 2:35:07 PM , Rating: 1
HD-DVD is dead, and these comments from the so-called "HD-DVD Boss" are a joke. Your hardware is being cleared out of retail as we speak, and the software will be soon to follow.




RE: HD-DVD is dead.
By wallijonn on 1/29/2008 12:50:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your hardware is being cleared out of retail as we speak


So is the Samsung 1400 and any profile 1 BD player (ie, Sony BD300). The turkey stuffing will hit the fan when BD movies come in two flavours - BD "Live" (profile 1.1 and above) and regular BD (profile 1.0.)

Yes, I own both Blue and Red. The only BD player to get IS the PS3. I paid $299 for mine, but Joe 6-pack isn't about to spend $400 for a player and $25 for a movie.


My 2 cents worth
By AlmostExAMD on 1/25/2008 11:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
I have been holding off on either format now since these wars started but had secretly hoped Blu-ray would win( intention of buying a PS3), Which means a loss of profit for both sides.
I will say this though, Being a young hot blooded male that enjoys adult content, Which ever medium can supply a nice collection of pr0n that can sit along side my normal movie collection WILL win my vote, There i said it, At least I'm honest! :)




Here's how you save it...
By 9nails on 1/26/2008 1:19:31 AM , Rating: 2
Buy any 4 titles, get the player for free. (Or Xbox 360 HD add-on drive for free.) Limit 2 per household.

The reason that HD-DVD is behind Blu-Ray is only because of player adoption. Sony smartly gambled on Blu-Ray by stuffing it into each PS3. While this put them in last place with console gamers, it gave them first place in high definition media sales.




Even if Blu-Ray pulls ahead...
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 2:35:28 AM , Rating: 2
Even if Blu-Ray pulls ahead, I'll still continue to buy HD-DVD combo discs as long as they are available so I can play them on my laptop, in my bedroom, in my portable DVD player, and in my truck. I'm certainly not going to replace all of those players (I think I have 15-16 DVD players now) with BR just so I can play my movies somewhere other than my home theater.

I actually have both HD-DVD and Blu-ray players now, but I rarely by content for either one because I can't play the discs anywhere else (save for the HD-DVD combos). Which means I can't watch a movie while I'm getting ready for bed, or when the home theater TV is being used for something else. Plus, the $30-35 price is kind of a turn-off to.




I am the average consumer.
By ice456789 on 1/26/2008 9:59:04 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know half the stuff you guys know about this format war. I sure learned a lot by reading this thread though.

I'll tell you what the average uninformed consumer will do: nothing. The average consumer like myself will wait until one format takes over. No reason to spend hundreds of dollars on something that may become obsolete in a few months, just to see a movie in slightly better resolution. Yeah, I know it's more than slightly better, but to the untrained uninformed eye the difference isn't noticeable unless you're looking at them side by side.

My question is... how long will the disc format last? How long until movies come on small memory cards (like SD cards or something)? Get rid of all the moving parts, have very small and hopefully inexpensive players. Is that the future of movie watching? Think about it... the advances will come in the media (the cards) not the player. If they find a way to squeeze more info and higher definition onto a single card 2 years after you buy your player, it can still play them.




$50 players?
By ultimatebob on 1/26/2008 10:44:07 AM , Rating: 2
I think that I'll pick up an HD-DVD player once I see one of the daily discount sites like Woot selling one for $50. Even if the format totally dies off, there is still a decent collection of HD-DVD's on Netflix and the players still do a nice job of upsampling regular DVD's.

Of course, it would also be nice if someone finally released a reasonably priced combo player as well. Let technology end the "format war" for us!




1080p O'Rly?
By Jimmybones on 1/26/2008 11:34:52 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
“Most people are very happy with their DVD, but when they see a 1080p movie, it blows them away.”


Interesting, maybe you should have made 1080p STANDARD on your players.

Oh well, the more I listen to you the more your sounding like the Iraqi Information Minister.




HD-DVD/DVD COmbo
By MatrixDweller on 1/26/2008 8:37:35 PM , Rating: 2
I think if Universal and Paramount and the other HD-DVD supports want to hit the market they should release all DVDs as HD-DVD/DVD combo disks. That way if you have a DVD player now you can buy a combo disk and then later play it on a HD-DVD player when they purchase one. That way Blockbuster will actually stock HD-DVD movies (in disguise).




Betting on Blu
By dollface219 on 1/27/2008 5:27:06 PM , Rating: 2
I've heard about the format war... didn't really read up on it. I didn't understand the difference, still don't understand the difference, and really don't care about the difference. I don't know about this high-tech stuff, but I do know what I like. I heard about Blu-ray in June last year, and didn't know there was a "war" going on until I came across an article on MSN a few months ago. (Forgive my ignorance.) I was in Blockbuster with some friends and didn't know what the heck Blu-ray was, and thought it was stupid because "higher quality? For real? Whatever!" But there were the movies, on the shelf in "Blu-ray" format. After hearing a player was about $500, we rented our regular DVDs.

Considering myself an "average" consumer because of my little knowledge and laziness to keep up with the media, here's my recent experience.

I went to Best Buy, and they had a Samsung set up with Blu-ray player and bought the whole dang thing. (Impulsive, yes.) The TV is a full HDTV, 1080, 40", LCD Samsung. BB was out of the Blu-ray player, so I opted for the 40 GB PS3 (same price as the Samsung player that was out of stock). The PS3 came with a free movie--Spiderman never looked so cool! The TV came with 3 free Blu-ray movies, and I have a rebate for 5 free movies through mail. Oh, and the HDMI cable (that isn’t included with the TV or PS3--dumb!) gave another free Blu-ray movie. Total of 10 free movies!

After reading what's on here, and classifying myself as the “average” consumer (little knowledge about HD-DVD versus Blu-ray), this is my opinion. I'd rather pay the extra for the player that's going to play the movies I want to watch. I feel Blu-ray is the winner of the war. Best Buy has Blu-ray on display, and has the clout and word-of-mouth (my Blockbuster experience) that HD-DVD only has because it’s Blu-ray’s competitor, not superior. You talk about HD-DVDs when, and after, Blu-ray is in conversation.

I understand how a $400-$500 price tag on a Blu-ray player is going to make people walk away. (Heck, I walked away when I first heard about it!) But the PS3 is a… multi-functional device (for lack of a better term) which can play games AND the Blu-ray movies. (And from reading the instructions, can't it be used as an external harddrive for music and videos from your computer? I'm not really a gamer.) It does more for the same price—anyone who thinks about what they’re spending their money on is going to tell you they’d rather get two things for the same price as one. Plus, if I bet wrong (and I doubt I have), and HD-DVD does “win” I’ll simply buy an HD-DVD player. For those who aren’t gamers, and don’t want to gamble, you can either buy a combo-player that will play both formats (um… the price is like adding the cost of both players), or you can wait it out. But the above thinking is how Blu is gaining the advantage. Putting the player in the PS3 was a really smart move. It essentially equipped any household owning a PS3 with the Blu player— for free . The question then is, “Do I purchase an HD-DVD player and new movies? Or do I purchase Blu-movies since I already have the player?” Um… duh.

The format war comes down to advertisement combined with supply and demand. This is “Introduction to Business” easy. Exposure by “big-already-known-names” helps Blu-ray tremendously! Blu-ray is everywhere, and while they may have been released at the same time (were they? I don’t know) HD-DVD does not have the same kind of marketing/advertising as Blu. HD-DVD players are in less demand, so the price dips to sell inventory. Blu-ray players are in high demand, so the price goes up because people are willing to pay a higher premium. Sound messed up? Ha ha, welcome to business! These companies are out to make money (possibly due to the losses pirating has created) and they’re doing it in a smart way.

The PS3 is lagging in the gaming area. I have two younger brothers, who opted for the x-Box and another who went for Nintendo’s Wii. Ditto for other friends. I have a feeling it was because of PS3’s price tag--my 14 year-old brother is now drooling over my game counsel. In my opinion, Sony did a good job looking at the “over all picture” and focused on multiple markets instead of just “gamers” when designing the PS3.

Some other tidbits I’d like to comment on:
I saw the price for blu-ray movies... $30! Ouch. Yes, DVD prices are falling, but what's to say DVDs will still be produced in a year? Nothing. Think about it, it's like pulling teeth to find a movie in VHS. Pirates are going to have to do some major up-grades (costly up-grades) to be able to copy material. Discs, burners, readers, decryption software, format converters (for HD-DVD to Blu and vice versa), etc. This new format is definitely going to slow pirates down, but not get rid of them—I doubt that’ll ever happen—and that’s a great motivator to stop producing standard DVD format when this “war” is officially over.




By jeromekwok on 1/27/2008 9:08:35 PM , Rating: 2
I think HD-DVD is going to stay. Price is everything.

I see the cost of BD profile 2.0 is about the same as a BD-HD hybrid player. BD2 needs to support network and interactive support and etc, drives the cost up to the level of a hybrid player. You need to have both red and blue laser in a BD only drive, unless you don't want to play old DVDs. So the cost of a BD2 is about the same of a hybrid. HDDVD is also royalty free.

Why bother to get a hybrid when it is about the same price as a BD2? And so for the studios, why do you need to make expensive BD2 when HDDVD is just half the cost?

We will see HDDVD to gain more support from Asia. And also pirates to make BD exclusive titles on HDDVD.




Dropping the prices.....ummm
By MikadoWu on 1/27/2008 10:24:30 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, let me start with I am a supporter of HD-DVD. With I do not see them winning this format war, with out the use of some major balls. My first belief was that dual format players would win. I no longer believe this will happen. So how does HD-DVD win......

Drop the PRICES of the MOVIES.

If it was me, I would drop the price below the prices of standard DVD's. This would allow them to pull interest from the heavy market instead of just the HD market.

It would be a bold move and one most likely not to be made, but I truely believe it is there only way.




Hi I'm Baghdad Bob
By deeznuts on 1/28/2008 12:42:18 PM , Rating: 2
And there are no trooops in Baghdad.




j6p
By truss64130 on 1/28/2008 2:58:09 PM , Rating: 2
I have also not bought in to this format war. When both bluray and hd-dvd were both announced, I was all for blu... on paper. Then the players, content, and prices came out and I eventually became in favor of hd-dvd. In the back of my mind, I always wanted blu to win because of the greater potential of storage space and bandwidth, but HD-DVD's specs and functionality couldn't and still cannot be beat. I know that this has been mentioned before, but I can't beleive that sony cannot create a finalized profile.

We all beat around about what the consumer wants and how one format will will the war. Sure, Sony has more movies, better studio support, and better marketing. If people buy into bluray, how do you explain to them several months later that certain new features are not available to them unless they buy another $400-600 player to support the new profile? Or he could buy a player that supports PiP, but not analog audio outputs. There is not one complete, fully functional player in the blu-camp.

Joe sixpack wants a player that works out of the box. No firmware updates, no understanding of profile 1, 1.1, 2, etc. That has been his experience with SD dvd players, they work.

Again, I do not support any format. If I could, it would be a cross between hd-dvd's functionality and price and blu-rays specs and support. Sadly, there is not one good for all format.




Where have I heard this before?
By encryptkeeper on 1/25/2008 9:37:00 PM , Rating: 1
HD DVD Boss: The Format War is Far From Over

Yeah, and we can still beat the terrorists.




RE: Where have I heard this before?
By BPB on 1/26/08, Rating: 0
Wake up batman
By Gymnogene on 1/26/2008 10:24:00 AM , Rating: 1
No wonder HD DVD is where its at with a guy like this at the helm. It's only ego and pride keeping these dudes from admitting the inevitable outcome of events. The sooner they admit it, cut their losses and move on, the better it will be for all, especially consumers.

As of June the rights on close to 40 of the top 50 highest grossing movies of all time will be with Blu-Ray exclusive studios, including Harry Potter, LOTR, Star Wars (Lucasfilm, but stil through Fox), Pirates of the Caribbean, Matrix etc. not to mention all the animated classics from Disney.

Every PS3 sold is a Blu-ray drive (and people are starting to realize it), and BD movies have been outselling HD DVD titles for the last year, by a huge margin if you look at it worldwide. Am I missing something or what, in my mind this 'war' is over.




VHS
By Sundox on 1/26/08, Rating: 0
HD DVD PLAYER WITHIN $200 PRICE RANGE, HELL YEAH !
By rsasp on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/25/2008 9:39:26 PM , Rating: 2
It actually gives you a maximum of 1080i, which is close enough for the majority of people. A solid deal, no matter how you look at it.


RE: HD DVD PLAYER WITHIN $200 PRICE RANGE, HELL YEAH !
By twdm on 1/26/2008 12:16:41 AM , Rating: 4
Umm if you're gonna be buying cheap Hd-dvd players, chances are your tv probably doesn't support 1080p so it is a non-issue.


By reader1 on 1/26/2008 12:15:31 PM , Rating: 2
It's not a deal, though, it's an investment. And a risky one at that. The Warner Bros. move eliminated the risk in buying Blu-ray.


Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Mitch101 on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By cubby1223 on 1/25/2008 5:04:28 PM , Rating: 1
It's an online petition. Someone wrote a script to automate name entries. It's comedic gold looking at the signatures (because probably 85% of them are fake).


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By GhandiInstinct on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By mmntech on 1/25/2008 5:16:06 PM , Rating: 4
Less DRM + no region coding = consumer wins. Nuff said. That's from a guy who owns a BD player.

If you really want to save HD-DVD, don't sign petitions, but a player. Duh.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By porkpie on 1/25/2008 5:19:40 PM , Rating: 4
Right. HD-DVD is the better format, at least for movies.

For data, I'll vote Blu Ray, but the lack of region encoding, less DRM, better interactivity, and a guaranteed network port on every player, I want HD-DVD.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Mitch101 on 1/25/2008 5:34:20 PM , Rating: 1
How long until Sony Rootkits find thier way onto BLU-RAY media?


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By jpeyton on 1/25/2008 6:30:52 PM , Rating: 5
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/25/nielsen-video...

For the second week in a row, Blu-Ray demolishes HD DVD in software sales, 83% to 17%.

All of the Top 10 best-selling high definition titles are Blu-Ray.


All I hear from the HD DVD camp is "wait until xxxx", or "the tide is turning".

Paramount went HD DVD exclusive. Tide didn't turn.

Big exclusive titles hit HD DVD (Transformers, Bourne, Shrek). Tide didn't turn.

WalMart and other retailers sold $99 HD DVD players. Tide didn't turn.

Toshiba cuts MSRPs of HD DVD players dramatically. Tide didn't turn.

In fact, if anything, it has been week after week of bad news for HD DVD. Studios have gone Blu-Ray exclusive or neutral, Blu-Ray player sales have matched and exceeded HD DVD player sales, and software sales for HD DVD have dropped through the floor.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Gio6518 on 1/25/08, Rating: 0
RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Wagnbat on 1/26/2008 1:55:49 AM , Rating: 3
You're probably right.. But I don't think the battle is 'won' yet. If Toshiba can continue to get players out of outlets like Walmart cheaper, then HD-DVD might see an increase. The prices they were selling for between Black Friday and Xmas seem to have dissapeared... Soo...

We'll see what happens this next year, but I don't think the battle will be won by this Xmas unless one group literally resigns.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By DigitalFreak on 1/26/2008 8:35:16 AM , Rating: 2
People are RETURNING the HD DVD players they got for Christmas, if you read some of the sales reports. Guess the consumer does know which format is coming out on top and don't want to get stuck with another betamax machine.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By wallijonn on 1/29/2008 1:05:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
People are RETURNING the HD DVD players they got for Christmas, if you read some of the sales reports.


People have been returning the Samsungs, too, and either buying a PS3 or the latest Panasonic. Maybe the reason why people are returninmg the HD-DVD players is because everyone believes thsat once WB went Blu the end is guaranteed. It ends up in a loop.

BD won? Fine. Let's come out with profile 2 and lower the prices of the media. I don't like paying more than $19.99 for a movie (although I did just pay $30 for "Stardust" on HD-DVD. I will not pay $40 for "Slither" or 27.99 for "Man on Fire". I just won't.) When presented with the choice between $25 for HDM or $15.00 for SD, the choice is almost always going to go towards SD. Unless it is a "must have" type of blockbuster movie. That is probably less than 10% of movies released.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By omnicronx on 1/26/2008 12:47:16 PM , Rating: 2
Who cares, Sony is going to win, we know this. Aside from your first two points which can be directly attributed to Warner choosing BD, not consumers choosing BD, (sales were 50/50 in the US a week beforehand) HD-DVD did not turn because Sony paid off everyone they could. I was on the HD-DVD side until I realized that in Canada, Sony had monopolized the market. They pay off bestbuy, which owns futureshop, which probably accounts for 50-60% of the players bought in Canada. I was sick and tired of going to BestBuy and getting to choose from around 10 HD-DVDs while BD would have multiple copies of each.

Toshiba pay offs: paramount

Sony payoffs: Bestbuy, blockbuster, target, warner (well in my opinion they probably did) the list goes on..

Personally I am pissed off with the way Toshiba marketed HD-DVD. It's not like Sony is just switching to tactics like this now, they have always had the conquer all attitude. Toshiba should have got on their hands and knees and should have asked Microsoft to bail them out.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Hydrofirex on 1/25/08, Rating: 0
RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 2:21:36 AM , Rating: 3
The problem with the "more space" argument is that on average, HD-DVDs are actually using more of the space available. Only half of Blu-ray disks (50.48%) are double layer, meaning that 49.52% are single layer. (HD-DVD discs, on the other hand, are 87% double-layer.) On top of that, 38% of all Blu-ray releases use MPEG-2 (an even higher percentage of single layer discs) which means big trouble when it comes to image quality for those discs.

Just because BR has the potential for more storage space doesn't mean that it is being used. Because it really isn't.

The truth of the matter is, though, that even a single layer HD-DVD has enough space to create a stellar HD image when VC-1 or AVC codecs are used. The disc capacity argument just doesn't hold up.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By vhx on 1/26/2008 8:29:26 AM , Rating: 3
Isn't that a load.

First of all, No one encodes MPEG-2 on Bluray anymore, the only reason some were, was to get them out the door when Bluray first showed up. Some of these even have re-releases of them with the better codec. The image quality is identical when using the same codecs and the same sources. This point isn't even relevant anymore.

Second of all even if disks right now don't utilize the full space, future disks will. Series shows and sets will be able to fit almost double the episodes per disk. Not only that but better audio, and better features because you don't have to skimp on them because you are limited with space.

Accepting an inferior disk (at least in terms of storage), because current things aren't using it, is ridiculous. This is especially true when the winner of the format war is going to become the next storage medium for PC's.

Yeah I am sure everyone continued to buy 600MB CD-R's back in the day when 700MB's were already out. I also remember hearing complaints about DVD back in the day. "I don't need DVD, I can just use several CD's!" How retarded are those people considered now?

The point is, it's stupid when you have better a better option that has room to expand. Don't let bias (for either the format, or Sony) get in the way of things that should be an obvious decision.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Gio6518 on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 2:23:14 AM , Rating: 2
The sound quality issue is a myth. Both formats effectively support the same types of audio, from Dolby Digital through lossless 7.1.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By DigitalFreak on 1/26/2008 8:38:24 AM , Rating: 2
They both support the same audio types, but because of the HD DVD disc size limitation, there was no lossless track on Transformers.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By madoka on 1/26/2008 2:51:20 AM , Rating: 3
I guess it was so "PATHETIC" that the audio on Transformers won the High-Def Disc award for best audio quality.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Gio6518 on 1/27/2008 10:48:58 PM , Rating: 2
did toshiba buy that off too cause i heard it and it sounded like crap, even popped in a SDVD exact same sound, now BLU-RAY does have some crappy sounding discs too, but thats because WB was making for both studios, and the BLU-RAY suffered down-graded audio due too HD-DVD limitations


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By AlphaVirus on 1/25/2008 6:02:37 PM , Rating: 2
I get tired of the 'hd-dvd is cheaper so it should' argument along with the 'hddvd does not have region coding, so it is better for consumers'.
Are you people forgetting, the companies are the major players in the war right now. The HD market is less than 5% so they still have plenty of time to switch to whatever they want.
Something you people need to remind yourself, companies like extra security (which Blu has), they like have extra space without having to keep adding 3 and 4 layers (which blue has), and they also like having the peace of mind that consumers want their product (which Blu owns right now).

Lets see, what else, yeah the HDDVD players are cheaper by $100-200 but the cheapest Blu player is a PS3 so you are getting something far better than a standalone.

The fact that the Blu has an update feature, that is a good thing so stop saying its not. Having the ability to upgrade without paying for a firmware is something Sony is good for and we will love this benefit once the war is over. Sure not everyone will know how to update at first but with the marketing of Blu, they are bound to find out sooner or later.

HDDVD fanatics, leave your blank arguments at home because they count for nothing when approaching the big businesses. I am not saying the war is over because its not, but it is surely close.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Mitch101 on 1/25/2008 6:12:09 PM , Rating: 2
$400 is not in the average consumers impulse buy even if it is also a PS3.

Extra layers are not necessary. If so then HD-DVD initially would have been released with extra layers or increased space but it wasn't because it wasn't necessary.

HD-DVD players are $200-$250 cheaper than a BLU-RAY player. I could buy an HD-DVD player and a lot of movies for the same cost of just the BLU-RAY player right now.

Anyone looking to replace their existing DVD player with one that upscales can say I can either spend $80.00 on an upscaling DVD player or spend a little more and get one that play HD-DVD's too.

No one is saying I could spend 5 times more and just get a BLU-RAY player. Especially an Impulse buyer. At $150.00 for an HD-DVD player one could buy more than one unit and still be cheaper than a BLU-RAY player and still have money for movies.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By erikejw on 1/25/2008 8:54:20 PM , Rating: 2
Why would anyone bother buying an upscaling DVD player instead of the DVD player they already have?

At least :) 100% of HDTVs upscale.

The scaling might be somewhat worse than a top notch scaler but good enough for 99% of the user base. The last 1% should get a Hd player due to that they want to watch HD material which knocks SD dead. The difference is HUGE.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Belard on 1/25/2008 9:33:55 PM , Rating: 1
No... 3/4 layer profiles were not made when HD-DVD hit the market. Layer3 is only recently been finalized - but Toshiba hasn't said a word about compatibility with 3 layer discs. Most likely they WON'T be compatible - Toshiba has had a year to test out 3layer discs on their current hardware. Guess what... no workie!

quote:
HD-DVD players are $200-$250 cheaper than a BLU-RAY player. I could buy an HD-DVD player and a lot of movies for the same cost of just the BLU-RAY player right now.


Oh yeah? Movies like CARs, Finding NEMO, Pirates of the Caribbean? 5Th Element, Spiderman? Pretty soon, Bladerunner will not be available for HD-DVD. Harry Potter movies. How well do these play on HD-DVD?

Someone who spends $1000~3000 on a big-screen HD-TV can afford a $300~400 Blu-Ray player. Oh yeah, free players for the past few weeks from Panasonic, Sharp, Sony - and they ALL upscale DVD.

Upscale DVD players are about $50, some as low as $35.

Universal will be the LAST to convert to Blu-Ray... How funny with a name like that?! LOL!!

Please choose another brand of HD-DVD player... RCA, nope discontinued. Onkyo - nope, discountinued their $1000 mode - all were re-branded Toshibas.

PS: there ARE not petitions to SAVE Blu-RAY... why? Because they are NOT in trouble.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By whickywhickyjim on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By ani4ani on 1/25/2008 7:10:12 PM , Rating: 5
err its a bit like buying a HD DVD player with no films - isn't that right?


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Shark Tek on 1/25/2008 7:58:28 PM , Rating: 2
Ouch that was strong !!!


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Belard on 1/25/2008 9:35:39 PM , Rating: 2
That was a great comeback! ZING!!


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By whickywhickyjim on 1/26/2008 1:30:31 PM , Rating: 2
there are films to be seen. there might be more films in the blueray section, but quantity doesn't equal quality. off the top of my head, fear and loathing in las vegas, full metal jacket, letters from iwo jima, the bournes, hot fuzz and transformers are available on hd dvd. Those are pretty excellent titles. You're right, though, they're just not as good as the multitude of awesomeness that blu-ray has, like hairspray or cars or big mama's house, or any of those incredible, incredible sony movies like xxx part 2 and center stage. Those movies are great.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Helbore on 1/26/2008 3:38:02 PM , Rating: 3
Isn't it just a teeny bit cheating when you choose the best titles on HD-DVD and stack them up against the weaker Blu-Ray titles. No mention of big name titles like Spiderman, Casino Royale or Pirates of The Carribean.

Not to mention that Full Metal Jacket and Letters from Iwo Jima are also available on Blu-Ray. IF we're gonna count films on both formats, we could throw out the Harry Potter films, 300, Blade Runner, etc, etc, just to bolster the list.

It seems like you are, from some unknown reason, simply listing selective titles in an effort to create a false truth to prove your point. That's a little silly, isn't it?

But if you want to play sily games to prove which format has better movies, I might as well point out that Fox (Star Wars) and New Line (Lord of the Rings) are Blu-Ray exclusives. No news on when those films will appear, but personally, I believe, when they do, they will end any remanents of the format war, then and there.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By whickywhickyjim on 1/26/2008 4:28:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not to mention that Full Metal Jacket and Letters from Iwo Jima are also available on Blu-Ray.

I actually didn't know that those were available on blu-ray and that is certainly a valid point. The original point I was arguing against was the claim that there are no movies on hd dvd, just like there are no games for the ps3. Blu ray seems to be adding many recent titles that are just awful. They do have a lot of new content, but most of it is very, very bad. Aside from 3:10 to Yuma, titles like mr. woodcock, good luck chuck: the unrated version, rush hour 3, hairspray and the game plan are not convincing me that I need to switch to blu ray.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Helbore on 1/26/2008 4:57:47 PM , Rating: 2
Bad as some of those movies are, it doesn't really matter. So long as the quality titles are on Blu-Ray, let the studios press all the crappy ones they feel like. Of course there are many people who like those sort of movie (my mum loves Hairspray, for example) and that only means Blu-Ray is coering more potential markets.

I agree there are definately many good title on HD-DVD, but they don't outnumber the quality titles on Blu-Ray. Unfortunately, the average consumer will take more notice of the fact that the Blu-Ray stand is bigger than the HD-DVD stand.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Gio6518 on 1/27/2008 11:14:17 PM , Rating: 2
yeah no doubt

hd-dvd has great hits like
top gun
fletch
ambient water
bob hope collection
the hulk
darkman
barry manilow

compared to blu-rays
die hard collection
pirates of the carribean
hitman
avp 2
golden compass
too many to list for blu-ray


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By walk2k on 1/25/2008 7:24:53 PM , Rating: 3
Correct. The average consumer does not care about region coding. They will never buy a disc from a foreign country, nor will they ever even want to. Hell I'm a huge movie/tech nerd and I've never done it. Why would I? I'm not an anime fan I guess...

Not to mention, about 50-60% of BD movies released so far don't use region coding (are all-region) anyway.

Big who-cares on region coding.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By nismotigerwvu on 1/25/2008 5:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
Less disgusting DRM tactics, better implementation of extras and a finished spec rather than an ever changing work in progress perhaps? You sound as though the per layer difference in storage really matters. HD-DVD has proven itself to be the less expensive media and I have no real figures to source from here but I wouldn't be stunned if the 30 gig dual layer HD-DVD media was cheaper than the 25 gig single layer Blu Ray media. Then you can just repeat the nonsense you went on about with the capacity so on and so forth.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Mitch101 on 1/25/2008 5:19:57 PM , Rating: 3
I have been HD for about 4+ years now when this war began streaming TS files to an IODATA Linkplayer 2 before anyone even knew HD formats existed dont try to educate me on BLU-RAY.

Larger Capacity is not necessary
Faster Bandwidth? For what?
Greater Features?

HD-DVD players are under the $150.00 mark and worth buying if BLU-RAY wins then the average person cannot spend $400.00 on a player so the technology will move slow until they are sub $150.00. We could all be watching and buying HD Movies today if they would all just go with Toshiba who is offering players we all can afford.

How many trolls are SONY PR people out in forums advertising for Sony by starting this so called superior BS? Just like the SONY trolls that were on trains showing off the new phones acting as consumers I wouldn't be surprised if SONY gets caught pretending to be regular people on forums touting BLU-RAY superior when there is nothing superior about it.

I also like Region Free hardware this zoned out junk is just stupid.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Samus on 1/25/2008 6:12:26 PM , Rating: 2
I have needed to firmware update my Sony BD player 3 times since I've owned it just to play newer movies. It's getting kind of rediculous


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By TSS on 1/25/2008 7:39:58 PM , Rating: 5
regional free.... it's great and all but i've never actually used it. i mean, imported something from another region. i can imagine why, but still i've never actually used it.

price will drop with bluray regardless of whether hd-dvd is still around or not. should HD-DVD die right now, it doesn't mean 90% of all DVD sales are going to be converted to blu-ray overnight.

and, should blu-ray die right now and HD-DVD take the crown, i'm not convinced toshiba will lower the price *any further*. i'd bet that entry player beeing $150 for a looooong time. while the PS3 remains blu-ray's primary weapon, it will also have another competitor regardless of HD-DVD: the XBOX 360.

MS will want to cash in on the Wii's succes, as does sony, which requires for both the xbox 360 and the ps3 to become alot cheaper. if MS lowers the 360's price, sony can't stay too far behind. and the price difference between blu-ray stand alones and the PS3 can't become too great, since not everybody will buy a PS3 *just* for the movie functionality. so they drop in price as well.

i'd not educate you on HD. however the average consumer cares balls about your education, the same with what you'd consider worth buying. personally, i'd buy blu-ray over HD-DVD any day, because of the added storage. if HVD comes out tomorrow i'd buy that over blu-ray. DRM and such, writables don't have it. and rootkits feel just as much at home on a HD-DVD as a blu-ray disk. it's not the manufacturer that decides that, it's the compagny that prints on those disks. from that point of view, i'd rather take blu-ray too. because it has an extra encryption layer of which i know isn't as invasive as a rootkit. simply, i'd more likely place a rootkit on a disk that is LESS SAFE, for added protection, then on a disk that is more safe.

this format war also is decisive for PC media. i don't know about you but i have about 450 GB's of data on my PC. burning 15 GB or 25 GB per layer is a big difference. with dual layer blu-ray, i can clear my 300GB data disk with 6 disks. that would be 7 HD-DVD disks, of 3 layers each. you can only add so much layers to a disk, so blu-ray has a larger future.

are you sure you aren't one of toshiba's employee's? after all, at the same price point blu-ray *is* superior to HD-DVD. simply because nearly everything on the 2 disks format's identical besides size and encryption, which are both in blu-ray's favor. yes they do have some more differences but those are minor enough that i haven't seen them in anybody's posts, be it trollish or argumentative. and the price will drop.

http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/high-defi...

and not too long from now as well.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By DigitalFreak on 1/26/2008 8:46:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How many trolls are SONY PR people out in forums advertising for Sony by starting this so called superior BS?


Definitely a Toshiba troll. You can identify them by their lack of basic grammatical and punctuation skills.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 2:46:41 AM , Rating: 2
The biggest selling point for HD-DVD (to me), which is often overlooked, is the combo discs that let you have a copy of a movie on DVD and in high definition. That way you can actually watch your movies on the DVD players you already have scattered throughout your house and car without having to replace the 5+ DVD players you've already got. BR doesn't have any such option.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Belard on 1/26/2008 3:58:00 AM , Rating: 2
Its not much of a selling point.

1 - About 18% of HD-DVDs are "Combo" discs. HD-DVD content on one side, DVD-SD on the other.

2 - These combo discs are also labeless... so like with other double-sided discs, you'll need to carefully look at the little tiny strip going around the center to see which side is which.

3 - Most people have smaller 13~20" TVs scattered around the home. Only the main TV that is 46~72" with the HiDef player is going to count.

4 - many people son't seem to care. People will not buy a COMBO disc, thinking "I may need it in the future when I buy an HD-DVD" In due time, there will be portable BR-Players and cheap BR players for cars, etc.

5 - Also COMBO discs seems to cost a bit more. Usually more than BR titles.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By anotherdude on 1/25/2008 7:57:59 PM , Rating: 2
The idiot who did that, du blu, only seems to have infested a few pages - so no, 85% do not appear fake.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Capsaicin on 1/25/2008 5:17:20 PM , Rating: 2
Even though I was hoping for HD-DVD to win (b/c of the interactive feature set), just let the poor thing die.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By mars777 on 1/25/2008 5:42:07 PM , Rating: 2
The interactive custom microsoft XML driven feature set is limited in its possibilities.

On the other hand BD-Java is a complete programming language.

We don't see these feature much in use but as time passes it will happen.

If you care to have the best now then just get a PS3... but the war is still there.

You would do a favor to me, if you end this silly format war.

I say just let die the weaker one. I really dont care if i could save $0.5 on a disc because i want it now and don't want to wait more.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By MrWho on 1/25/2008 5:58:33 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't care... I'll just consider buy something HD when one of them truly dies out and not a second before. I'm not the one deciding which format wins - I'll just sit and wait. DVD is still good enough for me... And it will continue to be unless the prices of HD discs come down to DVD level (I really don't know if this is already true, someone please elucidate me?)


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Fallen Kell on 1/25/2008 6:56:04 PM , Rating: 2
You can usually find Blu-Ray movies on sale for $15-22. Considering the "2-Disc" editions of DVD's are usually around $22, I would say they are getting pretty close to the same price. Non-sale Blu-Ray is usually $26-29...


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/25/2008 9:45:08 PM , Rating: 2
HD-DVD's are the same price, Amazon offers 30% off on both formats.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By walk2k on 1/25/2008 10:34:43 PM , Rating: 2
Thing is, you can go back and forth on all these issues... region coding, DRM, unfinished specs, capacity, bit-rates, even PRICE... but NONE of it really matters.

Only thing that matters is content. Nobody cares if you have the greatest format on earth if you can't get the movies you want on it.

Right now that means Blu is "winning", period end of story. With the way these studios flip-flop.... in 6 months who knows...

I think one thing everyone agrees on is that 2 formats is STUPID. We NEED a single unified format if HD discs are ever going anywhere.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By mcnabney on 1/25/2008 11:48:48 PM , Rating: 2
Compare apples to apples please.

If you can find HD movies on sale for $15-22 you should compare that value to the $5-$10 regular DVDs that you also find on sale. The disks still cost about double the regular versions.


RE: Save HD-DVD Petition.
By Anonymous Freak on 1/26/2008 3:36:36 AM , Rating: 2
I dunno, I've been looking for Superman - The Movie, Superman II - The Richard Donner Cut, and Superman Returns.

All three are available on DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray.

Blu-ray and HD DVD of S -The Movie are both $19.95 at Amazon, DVD is $27.99! The DVD version is a 4-disc special edition, but both HD DVD and Blu-ray have almost all of the features on a single disc. A non-special-edition DVD is $11.99

Blu-ray and HD DVD of S II - The Richard Donner Cut are $15.99, while the DVD is $19.99!

For Superman Returns, the Blu-ray and HD DVD versions are $16.49, while the DVD is $14.98, but you miss the special features unless you buy the 2-disc special edition DVD for $22.99. Although the 'combo' HD DVD/Standard DVD costs $20.95.

My problem is that I got an HD DVD player for Christmas, and now I really don't want to spend money on HD DVDs, since the last two formats I chose died slow painful deaths. (Although they were both Sony, so it's odd actually thinking that a Sony format might win this time.) I'll probably get the standard DVDs of the old movies, and the combo disc of the new one.


It's over
By cubby1223 on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: It's over
By Belard on 1/25/2008 11:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
Do you have proof of this? A link showing the running times on the same package. Not much info on Amazon.


LOL
By RaulF on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
The facts
By crystal clear on 1/26/08, Rating: -1
RE: The facts
By Belard on 1/26/08, Rating: 0
RE: The facts
By crystal clear on 1/26/2008 11:19:21 AM , Rating: 2
You say-You say you don't care about format war, but very quickly it becomes a HD-DVD post. ;)

Response-Sorry ,No intention to make it HDDVD post-yes there are passing references but the focus is main stream buyers-cheapcontents/free-pirated movies etc.

Your item 1-Keep the options open & keep the buyer/s satisfied,let the demand forces play its role to determine what format is in demand.
This takes time-dont rush the process-now its just too early to reach a definite conclusion.
we are talking worldwide not a particular market like say N America or Japan etc.

Your item 2-Mainstream buyers are not confused but they are slow adapters to technology they are in no hurry to take sides.They simply wait it out.
They seek a continuation to what they have & pirated version that work on their existing hardware fill in the void.(lack of titles etc)
Those pirates supply you the movie as you want-a BR movies on any format you like.They know exactly what the demand is & match it with supply.

Item 5-Buying the cheapest available hardware for which ever format.Right now Toshiba gives you the cheapest.
On a worldwide basis & not any particular region.

Anyway to cut it short - its not format its consumer behaviour thats very unpredictble,their response cannot be prejudged/predetermined.
what good fo N America does not mean its good for the rest of the world or any region.

Yes I like your closing statement -it appears you certainly have a good girlfriend that deserves such a gift.
Good luck-enjoy !


RE: The facts
By crystal clear on 1/27/2008 1:06:32 AM , Rating: 2
Some random responses to your comment-

Its a numbers game at this point. The $130~150 players will BE INTERESTING to watch! They may turn 1500 sales into 5000~10,000 sales this week. CostCo/Toshbia is going to feel some serious pain if HD dies in 2-3 months with customers returning the players for a full refund.


You talk about the N American market-I think on a worldwide basis.

The massive publicity campaign launched by B.R. backers that HDDVD is dead & the rest of the blah blah is just to scare people away from buying Toshiba HDDVD players.

They create F.U.D. in the minds of mainstream buyers that they buy a player that will have no contents to play on.
These B.R. promoters forgot that the pirates will fill in the vacum/void created if need be.

B.R. launches a sleek Public Relations campaign-Toshiba matches it with a schrewd marketing campaign.

Mainstream buyers know very well that the contents will follow-courtesy the pirates even cheaper.
(take a trip to Asia and see for yourself-what goes on there)
They want it cheap & even better free !

Would you buy/rent a movie if you can see it for free,courtesy your friend who passes along a pirated version to you.

A B.R. original now on HDDVD-who cares about the format-its FREE !

I do not speak for Toshiba-but they have taken a calculated risk & well aware of the pain & pleasures in business.

I do not speak for HDDVD backers/fans-they have their statergies of "cheap & frees".
A formula that has achieved succesful results for many in the past.

But selling a HD-DVD players at mostly a complete loss, actually PAYING people to buy the player with movies... that is very painful.


Thats exactly what we mainstream buyers want-free & cheap !

But you see, when HD-DVD dies in the next few months... China & india will NOT be able to BUY HD-DVD players to watch movies on, will they?

Take a trip to these countries & you will see for yourself,its a pirates paradise-its thriving-they are considered as the Robin Hood of the masses.
No format dies either way.

(Pirates would enjoy re-mastering a 40~50GB disc down to 15GB... as dual layers cost money, pirates won't spend that kind of effort)

People dont mind watching a movie spread on 2 discs-time for a break between the two.

Pirates don't care... they pirate from HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The studios will STILL LOSE money, no matter WHICH or BOTH formats were to survive.

Then whats the point of the format wars ? Makes no sense !
Better for both the formats to live with each other & fight piracy & make money.

Anyway have a nice day-if I were to choose between watching any format movie & spending time with my girlfriend(if I was single)...I would choose the girlfriend (you know why).


RE: The facts
By MrTeal on 1/28/2008 11:58:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The massive publicity campaign launched by B.R. backers that HDDVD is dead & the rest of the blah blah is just to scare people away from buying Toshiba HDDVD players.


That's hardly surprising, it's standard practice in business, politics, even religion.

quote:
Mainstream buyers know very well that the contents will follow-courtesy the pirates even cheaper.


quote:
People dont mind watching a movie spread on 2 discs-time for a break between the two.


I think you're completely off your rocker here, at least with regards to the NA audience.
Mainstream buyers will not buy a HD-DVD player on the hopes that pirates will supply content.
Mainstream buyers will not download content, burn it using the HD-DVD burner they don't have, and watch it on their new HD-DVD player.
Mainstream buyers will not import pirated HD-DVD silvers from Hong Kong.

Mainstream buyers will buy the format that represents the best value to them. They want something cheap, yes, but they also want to be able to buy movies for it. They want to be able to go to blockbuster and rent movies. They want a single format so that when the grandkids come over their disney movies will play. HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, they just want something they can buy, plug in, and play movies on. Switching discs halfway through because they got a pirated version? Maybe tech junkies used to SVCDs, but mainstream users won't put up with that.

If all the major studios stop supporting one format, it's going to die. Pirates won't help prop it up, no one's going to be buying players relying on pirates to fill in the content, when they can just buy the winning format. Piracy will be just as rampant on BR as HD-DVD anyway.

In other markets, you could have a point, but I doubt it.

quote:
Then whats the point of the format wars ? Makes no sense ! Better for both the formats to live with each other & fight piracy & make money.

I'm confused why you think piracy will hurt the studios less with two formats than one format?


RE: The facts
By crystal clear on 1/28/2008 6:27:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm confused why you think piracy will hurt the studios less with two formats than one format?


Because thats the reality-THE FACTS as the title of my comment says....

To believe what I say,you have to travel to these regions to see for yourself.
Sitting in corporate offices or in front of your computers does not give you the FACTS on the ground,nor does it enables you to know whats happening..
You are disconnected from the realities on the ground.

You are not aware how much(in the millions) you loose from piracy,until you are start finding out how much !

Anyway will be back again with a detail response to you on all what you commented.


RE: The facts
By crystal clear on 1/29/2008 3:12:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Mainstream buyers will not buy a HD-DVD player .....................etc etc


Now you are coming to conclusions-

Does anybody bothers to ask the buyers


B.R promoters want to decide for the buyers,"how they should see their movies".

Once they succeed to wipe out HDDVD then they RAISE the PRICES for hardware & the contents.
Then what do you ??? pay up & shut up !!! & complain about the high prices...then you seek a cheaper solution....

What guarrantee you have they will NOT shoot up the prices in the FUTURE !
Where is the competition ??? the free market.....the P/P formula(price performances).

Just like I have the choice between Windows XP to Vista to OS.X to open source software.
Intel or AMD , Microsoft or Apple. Xbox or PS3 any many such examples.

Let me decide "what I want" "the freedom to choose" "its my money-I decide". Where is the freedom !

As per your thinking ...then let have ONE FORMAT GAMES for the XBOX & PS3 .....why the difference..plug & play simple !
Why can I not play Xbox games on PS3 ?
The same applies to O.S systems-they all do the same thing !
Why windows & OS.X-lets have one .....

Freedom & competition is a valuable thing

Let there be competition- its good for consumer !


RE: The facts
By DigitalFreak on 1/26/2008 8:29:39 AM , Rating: 4
LOL Nice "facts"


RE: The facts
By crystal clear on 1/27/2008 9:26:37 AM , Rating: 2
Facts that are indelible

indelible \in-DEL-uh-buhl\, adjective:
1. That cannot be removed, erased, or washed away.
2. Making marks that cannot easily be removed or erased.


LOL doesnt work all the time ! "j00" tween-AFT refresh your net lingo.....

BB4N

J/J
Just Joking


..
By Duwelon on 1/26/08, Rating: -1
It's over
By 777 on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: It's over
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/25/2008 9:49:35 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
No one seems to point out the fact that these so called cheap HDDVD players for $100 - $150 do not play anything higher than 720p, there is no 1080p.

They produce an image at 1080i, which is close enough to 1080p that the vast majority of people would be unable to tell the difference between the two side by side.


RE: It's over
By Gio6518 on 1/25/08, Rating: 0
RE: It's over
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 2:30:20 AM , Rating: 2
A movie at 1080i actually contains all of the same picture data as a movie at 1080p. Please, people, do your research before posting.


RE: It's over
By Gio6518 on 1/27/2008 10:52:15 PM , Rating: 2
yeah right another Toshiba lie to promote cheap players to cheap people, if that were the case they wouldn't bother making 1080p players


By jaakobi on 1/26/2008 6:51:21 PM , Rating: 2
clearly one of the most incoherent and moronic posts ever created in the history of the internet.


Blu ray is the best
By Serafina on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Blu ray is the best
By wxcc2004 on 1/25/08, Rating: 0
RE: Blu ray is the best
By Serafina on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Blu ray is the best
By sweetsauce on 1/25/2008 11:41:50 PM , Rating: 5
2 formats is only bad for consumers because studios decide to make exclusive deals. Provide the same content for both formats and see who wins this so called war. As i've stated twice here before, we can make the same stupid argument against the ps3. We already had the xbox360 in the market and it has a bigger installed base. There is no need to confuse the gaming world with 2 formats. Get rid of the ps3 and it will drive the development costs down since the developers can concentrate on making games for a single system. Only retarted ps3 fanboys who are in denial think otherwise. See what i did there, creative huh.


RE: Blu ray is the best
By Gio6518 on 1/26/08, Rating: 0
RE: Blu ray is the best
By djdjohnson on 1/26/2008 2:28:04 AM , Rating: 2
We have yet to see any proof that the PS3 is any better than the 360. There hasn't been a game on the PS3 yet that looks or plays any better than anything the 360 has to offer. Anything that anyone says about the PS3 being superior is theoretical, and until someone shows me definitive proof (no specifications, real examples of how the console is better!!!) I'll keep enjoying my 360 and any of the 700+ games available for it now (yes, that number is correct, and it doesn't include original Xbox games!).


RE: Blu ray is the best
By mcturkey on 1/26/2008 4:21:49 AM , Rating: 2
Live Arcade titles aren't relevant.


RE: Blu ray is the best
By Gio6518 on 1/27/2008 10:44:55 PM , Rating: 2
wow 700 games, you mean 675 crappy games 25 killer games which 15 to 20 of them are available for the pc, only good exclusive title right now for 360 is halo 3 which will probabally be out for the PC next year


RE: Blu ray is the best
By TerranMagistrate on 1/31/2008 12:10:28 PM , Rating: 2
You need to check out the near photorealism of Gran Turismo 5: Prologue on an HDTV. Nothing on the Xbox 360 compares to it's visual splendor.


RE: Blu ray is the best
By Davelo on 1/26/2008 3:12:36 PM , Rating: 2
Check that poster's history. He or she is definately on some kind of crusade. Maybe they already spent $600 on a BR player and are doing everything in their power to try to sway the market including flooding the forums with BR propaganda.


RE: Blu ray is the best
By Belard on 1/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Blu ray is the best
By Belard on 1/26/2008 1:46:34 AM , Rating: 2
Lame...


RE: Blu ray is the best
By Belard on 1/26/2008 4:00:53 AM , Rating: 2
Forgot to add..

Lame that someone voted that down. I thought the video was rather FITTING to the HD-DVD(RED) vs. (BLU)-Ray battle...

The link again:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=leEsz9ci5XE


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