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Cyberdyne's HAL suit goes into mass production this year. It will increase the users strength by as much as tenfold. Approximately 400 units will be produced by the next year.  (Source: Cyberdyne Corp.)
Dreams of real life robocops will be brought to life with new Japanese invention

What's blue and white and has the strength of superhero?  The answer, will soon be a human sporting a Cyberdyne Corporation suit. While the name of this Japanese firm, taken from the evil corporation in the movie Terminator, may make some a bit uneasy, its hard to fault its dream -- bringing to life the dreams of mech suits that military and fictional minds have had for decades.

Cyberdyne has partnered with Daiwa House to finally bring its HAL (Hybrid Assistive Limb) suit into mass production.  The company plans on offering 400 of the units, which are expected to be in short supply, to private and government buyers, at a cost of $4,200 for the suit.

The suit is truly revolutionary in that its the first publicly offered suit to increase the strength of both arms and legs to superhuman levels -- over ten times the strength of an average human.  The suit has special pads which attach to muscles and detect electrical signals form the brain.  As the muscle moves, so does the suit, augmenting the power of movements.  Special care is taken to respect the range of motion and not go too fast, so as not to damage delicate tendons, ligaments, and bones.

In short, the new suit allows an average human to accomplish seemingly impossible tasks.  Cyberdyne describes its revolutionary product, stating:
When a person attempts to move, nerve signals are sent from the brain to the muscles via motoneuron, moving the musculoskeletal system as a consequence. At this moment, very weak biosignals can be detected on the surface of the skin. HAL catches these signals through a sensor attached on the skin of the wearer. Based on the signals obtained, the power unit is controlled to wearer’s daily activities.
Demand for the new suit is expected to be huge.  From disaster relief and industrial construction, to military applications, there are many potential uses.  Perhaps the most valuable one is that the suit will allow the elderly or disabled to perform activities that they previously could not, by granting them normal strength and then some.

While the HAL suit is certainly impressive, it's even more fun to dream about what can come next.  With so much promise from the first model alone, it should be great to see what future models can accomplish -- longer autonomous battery life, more power, and possibly upgrades for military applications.  The HAL is one of those kinds of inventions that reminds you that the future is here, and is knocking on your door.


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Sounds like marketing to me...
By augiem on 4/10/2009 4:21:20 PM , Rating: 5
They get the 10x human strength figure by setting the suit for up to a 90% assist ratio if the wearer is very weak. This says nothing about the suit's true strength capacity.




RE: Sounds like marketing to me...
By TheDoc9 on 4/10/2009 4:29:04 PM , Rating: 5
also looks like that womans hands are totally free and unsupported. Certainly won't assist most people with heavy lifting. Sorry to rain on your parade Jason.


RE: Sounds like marketing to me...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 4/10/2009 5:11:20 PM , Rating: 2
yea, but it looks like she about to give one mean back handed slap to someone...


RE: Sounds like marketing to me...
By VashHT on 4/10/2009 5:54:06 PM , Rating: 5
I'm pretty sure that's a guy in the suit....like 99.9% sure.


By MonkeyPaw on 4/11/2009 6:40:46 PM , Rating: 3
Looks like he's wearing the helmet from Spaceballs.


By ggordonliddy on 4/13/2009 12:33:10 AM , Rating: 5
"That's a man, baby."


By geddarkstorm on 4/13/2009 4:17:09 PM , Rating: 2
Err, from the diagram picture, there certainly is a "rest" for the hands. You wouldn't bend the wrist beyond its capacity with that lip thing there, so there's no issue with that. The real problem would be squishing or crushing your hand while trying to lift too much.


RE: Sounds like marketing to me...
By augiem on 4/10/2009 4:50:50 PM , Rating: 5
BTW, I got that assist ratio info from this youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHJJQ0zNNOM - Go to 0:25 mark.

So much for superhuman strength...

There's a really cool robot called BigDog. Not a suit, but it's amazing. Check it out when it slips on ice and recovers. Go to about 1:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww&feature...

I remember seeing a discovery channel show with a really cool human assist exoskeleton that was truly powerful, but I can't seem to find it. It looked like it had real potential. Only problem was it had to be hooked to an external hydraulic hose. If anyone saw this show, a link would be awesome to see.


RE: Sounds like marketing to me...
By augiem on 4/10/2009 5:39:20 PM , Rating: 3
ARGH! The link to the HAL story should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE9MLbLgC7M


By Smartless on 4/10/2009 6:01:08 PM , Rating: 2
That was a good video on the BigDog. I've seen others but the part when it was on ice... Somehow that was totally hilarious.

Getting back to the story, so are those blue lights on the side of the suit necessary or are those Arc Generators? And if they help you become stronger, why are there grips or pads to handle the weight?


RE: Sounds like marketing to me...
By nurbsenvi2 on 4/10/2009 6:31:47 PM , Rating: 5
I think this BigDog video is the best one yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJZVZFRFJc


By cherrycoke on 4/11/2009 6:01:44 PM , Rating: 2
I was hoping someone would link this. I had a great laugh especially after seeing the original videos.


By geddarkstorm on 4/13/2009 5:15:46 PM , Rating: 3
Where I see this being truly useful is not in how much more a person could lift while wearing this, but how much farther a person could go while under a load with this suit supporting. If this thing is at a 90% assist ratio, that is, 90% of the lifting is being done by the suit, then your endurance has now been massively increased. Think of how much farther and longer a soldier with a 60lb pack could go with this suit taking most of the weight off of them verses on their own (limited of course by the power source of the suit).


By geddarkstorm on 4/13/2009 4:19:02 PM , Rating: 2
How so? If you knew how weak "very weak" was, then you'd know exactly the amount of force the suit could put out. No matter what your starting strength is, the suit can only put out a set amount of force dependent on its motors (and adjustable settings it sounds like) If it still added 500lb of force beyond your movements, that's incredibly substantial.


I Can See It Now
By lightfoot on 4/10/2009 4:19:58 PM , Rating: 5
Our soldiers of the future will have to up armor their own HAL suits because the Pentagon is too damn cheap to buy the Armored HAL suits...




RE: I Can See It Now
By Manch on 4/10/2009 6:10:44 PM , Rating: 2
or.... what they do is hastily armor the hell out of it and then it will be slow and you'll have soldiers tipping over everywhere making them sitting ducks.


RE: I Can See It Now
By StevoLincolnite on 4/11/2009 6:10:26 AM , Rating: 2
I dunno.. One day Master Chief will be real...


RE: I Can See It Now
By Manch on 4/11/2009 11:39:25 AM , Rating: 5
I already know a Master Chief that's 6'5", looks like Roadblock, and sounds like the God Father. I make sure I don't piss him off.


Price Correction?
By marblewave on 4/10/2009 5:39:05 PM , Rating: 2
I found this on Engadget.com. Sounds like a more accurate price to me.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/29/hal-5-robotic-s...




RE: Price Correction?
By bldckstark on 4/10/2009 6:27:07 PM , Rating: 2
The Engadget article is 2.5 years old. Google searches show about $2,000 a month to rent the suits.


RE: Price Correction?
By marblewave on 4/10/2009 7:17:45 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah, I realized it was an old article, it just talked about "projected" costs and the current quoted cost being 1/10 of the projection seemed unlikely. Who knows, maybe they did a heck of a job reducing costs from their prototypes.


RE: Price Correction?
By 9nails on 4/10/2009 10:09:51 PM , Rating: 2
I see where you're going with this, and I'd agree to the notion. The nearly $60K price seems much more realistic for 10X human strength in a power suit.

I think we're missing some words in this article. My guess is that it should have read, a cost of $4,200 "per month on lease." The measly $4,200 cost would be lower than a Segway making this the coolest toy every.


Industrial use
By s d on 4/10/2009 8:10:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
disaster relief and industrial construction, to military applications, there are many potential uses.


"Industrial use" is for an indoor electrical wireman.

The electrician needs to be able to lift 75 lbs of wire in a wire pull of main feeder wires ... most people would quit this job or die trying this activity




RE: Industrial use
By Jacerie on 4/11/2009 4:18:37 AM , Rating: 2
In what world is 75lbs such a chore to lift? I would think bales of wire would be more cumbersome than heavy. Spend $10 and make yourself a pulley system if it's too heavy.

This suit is a good first effort, but still need a lot of improvement for practical use.


RE: Industrial use
By FITCamaro on 4/13/2009 8:26:36 AM , Rating: 2
75 pounds isn't that much. If you're a guy and you can't lift that (assuming the item isn't too large to get a proper grip on), you probably need to start working out.


RE: Industrial use
By Teh Interwebz on 4/13/2009 3:24:52 PM , Rating: 2
agreed. I lift 70-80 pound laserjet printers all the time and I am not what anyone in their right mind would call muscular.


Cyberdyne
By Smilin on 4/10/2009 3:56:00 PM , Rating: 4
Cyberdyne is from Terminator, not robocop




RE: Cyberdyne
By William Gaatjes on 4/10/2009 4:07:55 PM , Rating: 3
Indeed !

sacrilege !

What an inifidel !

It's Omni Consumer Products (OCP) with respect to the movie robocop.


Anorexic power suit
By spread on 4/10/2009 8:51:20 PM , Rating: 1
Of course this suit can multiply your power 10x if you look like the model in the picture.

Put an already in shape guy in one of these and its probably going to be useless.




RE: Anorexic power suit
By 9nails on 4/10/2009 10:20:26 PM , Rating: 1
Wouldn't it be great to see a 10-year old wearing this suit take on a full-sized sumo wrestler? I fully expect some hilarious Japanese show to highlight this wrestling event in the not-so-distant future.

It would probably work in favor for the 10-year old in the reverse too! I picture the 10-year old ducking the now over-charged sumo wrestler as they accidentally fly out of the ring superman style.


RE: Anorexic power suit
By mindless1 on 4/11/2009 1:55:54 AM , Rating: 1
The suit would have to be sized for the 10 year old, so the outcome is fairly obvious. Sumo wrestler picks up kid because Sumo wrestler is much larger, longer reach, and slams kid into ground. Kid might get lucky and knock Sumo wrestler down but it is unlikely because it would have to be a side-blow meaning the kid plus suit weight is too low for the kid to remain planted instead of shoving his/herself backwards upon striking the blow.


RE: Anorexic power suit
By boogle on 4/16/2009 5:36:44 AM , Rating: 2
Sumo wrestling involves pushing your opponent outside of a circle...


RE: Anorexic power suit
By geddarkstorm on 4/13/2009 4:14:57 PM , Rating: 2
Since it's adding to your strength with its own motors, it would still greatly augment you no matter how strong you were before. If you're adding 500-700lb lift capacity to yourself no matter what your base lifting ability is, that's still very useful in numerous applications.


Wait for it...
By Motoman on 4/10/2009 3:55:34 PM , Rating: 5
..."open pod bay doors, HAL."

"I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that."

"DAMMIT HAL I HAVE TO TAKE A DUMP! OPEN POD BAY DOORS!"




RE: Wait for it...
By nixoofta on 4/10/2009 5:20:24 PM , Rating: 1
"Dave,...I am detecting increased heart rate and blood pressure."

"Dave,...would you like me to assist clenching your sphincter,...Dave?


But can it play Crysis?
By 85 on 4/10/2009 3:59:35 PM , Rating: 2
only $4200? i kinda want to get one now. anyone have specs on the thing? where can i get one? perhaps pared up with the Samsung methanol fuel cell this thing would gave a bit more potential.




RE: But can it play Crysis?
By whiskerwill on 4/10/2009 4:53:51 PM , Rating: 2
Whoever translated the price from Yen to $4,200 dollars missed a zero at least I'm sure. There's no way this could be anywhere near that cheap, not with a production run of only 400 units.


RE: But can it play Crysis?
By PlasmaBomb on 4/10/2009 8:02:44 PM , Rating: 2
The youtube link posted earlier states $20k...


I can see it now....
By CrazyBernie on 4/10/2009 6:07:47 PM , Rating: 4
"Look ma, I can hold this car over my head!"

*BEEP* *BEEP* "Battery Drained. Now powering down."

"Oh SHI-" *crash*




RE: I can see it now....
By Belard on 4/12/2009 3:04:48 AM , Rating: 2
Ah! Shimata! Gwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

But his hands couldn't hold the car. So the suite would need to be argumented with grips that can hold 100~500 per hand.


Don't tase me!
By EglsFly on 4/10/2009 7:08:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The suit has special pads which attach to muscles and detect electrical signals form the brain. As the muscle moves, so does the suit, augmenting the power of movements.
I wonder what would happen if someone got tased while wearing this suit!




RE: Don't tase me!
By mindless1 on 4/11/2009 1:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
Probably wouldn't be nearly as entertaining as you were imagining since it is described as speed-limited, jerking back and forth would be reduced in the wearer instead of accented.


RE: Don't tase me!
By jconan on 4/11/2009 2:05:45 AM , Rating: 2
i'm sure a market will open up for HAL suit modding


That much power from that tiny battery? Really?
By Zephyrr on 4/10/2009 10:52:02 PM , Rating: 2
Just what kind of motors does this thing use? How fast can it move? (I could sort of imagine high strength if it's geared way down). And how can it get much power from such a tiny waist mounted battery?

We get so used to exponential growth in electronic complexity and speed (bits can be made smaller and faster), that we expect everything technical to grow by quantum leaps. But batteries are getting better very slowly, likewise motors.

It's also suspicious that it would sense muscle nerves - kind of a low level noisy signal. So in that case, where does the feedback come from - the pushback that allows you to "feel" how hard you are pushing so you can balance, etc?

Look at the hands - if you want to lift a car, you had better have damn strong wrists and bones, or it's going to be more like having your hand trapped between a car and a bumper jack (the suit under your hand). Sure, you can "lift" a car now - just put your hand under the bumper and a jack under your hand and have somebody crank away. Or substitute a powersuit for the jack - your flesh is still the padding.




By whiskerwill on 4/11/2009 12:26:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
how can it get much power from such a tiny waist mounted battery?
A human puts out about 1/3 of a horsepower. 10X human strength would therefore be about 3 horsepower. That doesn't exactly take a lot of juice to run.


By mindless1 on 4/11/2009 1:57:39 AM , Rating: 2
For longer than a demo it would, IF the capabilities of the suit are as suggested and put to use.


Man Parts
By TomZ on 4/10/2009 4:17:56 PM , Rating: 1
The ladies (and some men I suppose) are probably wondering whether this suit will have the option for bionic "man parts"...




RE: Man Parts
By Smilin on 4/10/2009 5:21:16 PM , Rating: 2
What for?

I for one need the added strength of this suit just so I can pee without throwing out my back.


RE: Man Parts
By mindless1 on 4/11/2009 1:51:21 AM , Rating: 1
Sorry to hear you'll be peeing all over yourself till you get the suit. ;-)


Hard to fault?
By mattflaschen on 4/10/2009 4:23:05 PM , Rating: 2
"Its hard to fault its dream -- bringing to life the dreams of mech suits that military and fictional minds have had for decades."

Is it really that hard? I would think the paranoid futurists would be all over this.




RE: Hard to fault?
By Targon on 4/11/2009 9:16:01 AM , Rating: 2
You have to figure that weight and battery power would be only one of the difficulties in designing this sort of suit. The control systems become the next major problem, since the suit would need to PROPERLY detect what you are trying to do.

For the military, the uses for this sort of system would be huge, because the weight of what a soldier needs to bring with him/her could increase if this suit could handle it.

Then, as they mention in the article, there is also the danger to the wearer if the suit tries to move too quickly. Even those in shape know that running quickly puts more strain on the body than just the work the muscles are doing or need to do. Blood flow, strain and punishment on the joints, and other limitations in the human body would be factors to keep in mind.

If you are out of shape, try running as fast as you can for even a quarter or half a mile. I can bet that even if you can do the distance, you will be feeling pain that goes beyond your muscles, including your shins.

So, yes, it really is that hard.


wasnt cyberdyne a terminator corporation?
By Samus on 4/10/2009 4:57:21 PM , Rating: 2
?




By MozeeToby on 4/13/2009 2:37:16 PM , Rating: 2
You might as well ask "Wasn't HAL the first science fiction AI to go crazy and start killing people?"

Of course it is. The company is made up of young people who are trying to get a laugh and little extra publicity (especially in geek circles) by using famously dangerous names.


Great day
By FITCamaro on 4/10/2009 5:58:49 PM , Rating: 2
Now really fat chicks might get some lovin since guys will be able to lift them.




RE: Great day
By AnnihilatorX on 4/11/2009 12:54:26 PM , Rating: 2
Warning: Not safe for sex as specific parts not enhanced.


Small print
By lycium on 4/10/2009 9:22:16 PM , Rating: 2
"Do not use if you have epilepsy"




RE: Small print
By FaaR on 4/11/2009 9:12:36 AM , Rating: 2
I was just thinking that when I read the article... Falling over in general in this thing seems like a kind of iffy proposition. Suit has no protection for knees or hands, increasing chance of injury when you land with the suit on top of you...

Also, since that contraption is strapped to your body and most likely is quite heavy, also do not use anywhere near deep water because if you fall in, you'll sink like a rock.

Speaking of water... What happens if you're suddenly doused by a large amount? I assume the suit runs on low-voltage electricity (which would prevent electrocuting the wearer), but will it short out? :P

What it really needs is mechanical grips/claws/hands of some sort, as the human hand and wrist is not capable of supporting ten times the body's strength. I may be able to lift a 50 kilo weight unassisted and hold it for a while. However, regardless of how strong a power suit I wear may be, I'll never be able to get a half-ton weight off the ground using my own hand, that's just not physically possible.


Any progress on an increased mobility suit?
By Shig on 4/10/2009 10:13:10 PM , Rating: 2
I want to be able to run faster and jump higher too!




By 9nails on 4/10/2009 10:26:11 PM , Rating: 2
That's the 6 million dollar man! (TV show reference.) For $60K, we only get the infomercial version of this fantasy. :)

I'd wish for a regenerative rocket/jet pack for short flights. I'd like about 1,000 feet of omnidirectional travel. That would be fun!


Military Apps?
By sparkuss on 4/10/2009 4:18:01 PM , Rating: 2
I guess I could see this for things like logistics, and lifting heavy ammo or lifting a damaged vehicle, but unless you get any extra "protection" from it I don't see a direct combat use.

Maybe if it was all-encasing you would scare the crap out of the enemy, but the first one they take out with an RPG would lessen the effect.

I would hope our military R&D would be used to provide individual personnel protection first before just "strengthening" our warfighters.




RE: Military Apps?
By VultureTX on 4/10/2009 7:01:39 PM , Rating: 1
M-60 7.62 SAW instead of the m249 to be used as support. I still don't think the 5.56 mini gun is practical.

A 20mm semi auto sniper rifle would also be practical to carry. More likely it would be a custom necked down version with a "smart finned" bullet suitable for anti personnel. But with range of 3-4 miles.

And of course SWAT tactics with the lead on a forced entry able to carry a tactical shield that would stop anything short of a .50 cal.
No more worrying about the nutjob with an AK-47 during an assault.

No in the end this is the type of gear we will find lashed to the cargo rack of a Stryker and equipped when it's time to go clean house.


By Casual Observer on 4/10/2009 6:07:17 PM , Rating: 2
A simple software change and this suit would provide the opposition to muscles, which was supplied by gravity.
http://www.dailytech.com/Spaceflight+Harmful+to+As...

" Spaceflight Harmful to Astronauts; New Exercise Techniques Examined"




New party trick
By AlmostExAMD on 4/10/2009 9:10:39 PM , Rating: 2
I guess seeing someone lift up the front end of a car could be quite fun at your next outing/party. lol
On a more serious note,It may have it's benefits however limited they may be,Haven't seen this in action but maybe once it's refined and cheap enough it could work along side a forklift,In factories for the smaller awkward stuff that a fork may have trouble doing or military use,Loading ammunition/bombs onto planes? who knows!
We can laugh now but it may be a common site in our grandkids time,Just like a lot of things we already take for granted now that our grandparents would have laughed at,Ahh the beauty of technologies rapid pace.




*##$ing Cool
By homernoy on 4/11/2009 7:58:12 PM , Rating: 2
I wish I had one of those to ward off my wife!




I'm old fashioned
By TA152H on 4/10/09, Rating: -1
RE: I'm old fashioned
By Motoman on 4/10/2009 4:13:13 PM , Rating: 5
...they also get rid of those unsightly testicles and conveniently make it impossible for you to reproduce! Yay!


RE: I'm old fashioned
By quiksilvr on 4/10/2009 4:39:40 PM , Rating: 5
Don't forget your penis, it takes care of that too! High five for impotence!


RE: I'm old fashioned
By Mathos on 4/10/2009 9:27:43 PM , Rating: 5
Gotta add to this....Don't forget since your heart is a muscle that is constantly working it also causes the heart enlarge to a point where the oxygen supply in the cardiovascular system can't support it anymore. So it's all fun and games, and then you die.!!


RE: I'm old fashioned
By TA152H on 4/10/2009 11:41:44 PM , Rating: 5
That's a fallacy.

SOME steroids are aromatized to estrogen, which shuts down indigenous testosterone production. Estrogen regulates testosterone production, since if you have a lot of testosterone, you have a lot of estrogen, and that's how your body knows how much is enough.

But, not all steroids are aromatized to estrogen, and consequently, do not have this effect at all.

Your remark about being impossible to reproduce is uninformed. Steroids do no damage to your testicles, but those that elevate estrogen will reduce or eliminate indigenous testosterone production. However, if you stop taking them, eventually your estrogen levels will go down, and you'll start producing your own testosterone again. And, if you want kids, then, you can have them. Of course, you could have taken steroids that did not have this effect in the first place if this was a priority, but in any case, this type of issue is only temporary.

But, there are some other issues from high estrogen levels that are far more problematic, and some are not so easily reversed. Gynecomastia is really so foul, and it doesn't go away when you stop taking the steroids. There are ways to block it with other substances when taking steroids, basically by blocking the estrogen receptors, but once they are there, you'd need surgery to reverse it.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By feraltoad on 4/11/2009 2:22:44 AM , Rating: 2
If it doesn't give me bitch tits, then I don't want it.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By lightfoot on 4/10/2009 4:24:16 PM , Rating: 3
Imagine the guy on steroids WITH a HAL suit...

That would allow for some REAL 'roidrage!


RE: I'm old fashioned
By The0ne on 4/10/2009 4:59:19 PM , Rating: 3
The strength from the suit is most likely independent of the person's size or strength.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By Clauzii on 4/10/2009 11:34:28 PM , Rating: 2
Soohh - does it have a pilot ejector seat..?

:)


RE: I'm old fashioned
By Googer on 4/11/2009 1:55:48 AM , Rating: 2
No, that Guy looks like Bruce Lee Cyborg. They've brought him back from the dead like Robocop.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By Hulk on 4/11/2009 11:19:12 AM , Rating: 3
or maybe "driod rage."


RE: I'm old fashioned
By William Gaatjes on 4/10/2009 4:30:38 PM , Rating: 2
Steroids are to the body what nitromethane (nitroglycerin) is for car engines. Looks fun untill you blow out your engine. Besides it's always nice to see someone gain enormous strengt in a very short time only to see them rip off a muscle or a tendon. Why, because the body has had not yet enough time to adapt to the increased muscle strenght.
And then i am not yet talking about all the side effects on internal organs. There is a rare genetic disorder that gives the carrier superhuman strenght. They are muscled from infancy but do not live very long because the heart is deformed as well.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Science/2004/06/24/512...


RE: I'm old fashioned
By William Gaatjes on 4/10/2009 4:40:29 PM , Rating: 2
For more info

Klik the link in the link to see an 3 year old lifting weights.

http://www.besternews.com/related/ABC%20News:%20Ho...


RE: I'm old fashioned
By PlasmaBomb on 4/10/2009 7:49:32 PM , Rating: 2
The condition is called Hypertrophia Cordis,

or more commonly hypertrophy of the heart.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By whiskerwill on 4/10/2009 10:02:32 PM , Rating: 2
No, actually its called myostatin-related muscle hypertrophy.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By TA152H on 4/10/2009 7:54:16 PM , Rating: 4
Good God, I was just kidding with the post. You really couldn't tell?

But, since you want to get factual, you really don't know much about steroids, based on your comments.

Like most things the media has gotten hold of, they are vilified way beyond what's real, and really are so broad that nothing could possibly be said about all steroids.

For example, did you know cholesterol is a steroid? Did you know Prednisone and Anadrol do pretty much exactly the opposite things, but are both steroids? So, let's narrow it down to anabolic/androgenic steroids to start, since they make the most sense in this context, and cortico-steroids are quite dangerous (and, coincidentally, easily and often prescribed).

Now, saying all steroids are bad is about as educated as saying NSAIDs are extremely dangerous, because there have been some made that have been.

But, I'll even make a very broad statement that all steroids (remember we're talking anabolic/androgenic in this context) are far safer than aspirin, or acetaminophen. If you don't believe me, take 30x the dosage you should be taking of Aspirin for 20 years, and see if you make it out of a day. Or see if you have a liver left with acetaminophen. With steroids, people will take this much for many, many years, and SOME have side effects that are harmful. The problem isn't so much the drug, as the jackass that takes way too much of it, for way too long.

But, even within the ranks of anabolic steroids, there are huge differences in the danger they present. Some can cause behavioral changes, some can cause indigenous testosterone production to shut down (the remarks about testicles allude to this), and some can cause liver damage. In the latter case, it has nothing to do with the steroid, but with the 17-alpha-alkylation that is added to oral steroids so they are not broken down by digestion. Injectables do not need this, and generally do not cause any harm to the liver.

With regards to indigenous testosterone production, that depends on estrogen, which is the negative feedback loop for it. Testosterone is converted (aromatized) into estrogen, and that regulates further testosterone production. Some steroids are not aromatized, and therefore cause absolutely no side-effects like this. Some are, and can cause many issues over time, if not used with other drugs to mitigate the effects.

With regards to behavior changes, even anabolic steroids have two parameters that define their effects. They are anabolic (effects not considered purely male), and androgenic (male characteristics). For example, increasing the ability to build muscle is anabolic, while something that lowers the voice, causes facial hair to grow, initiates more aggressive behavior, would all fall under androgenic properties. Testosterone, by far the most dangerous of all steroids, is considered highly androgenic by steroidal standards, but there are others like Dianabol and Anadrol that also are highly androgenic. So why do people use these? Well, they work, and work well, and increase metabolism a lot. That's why people like to stack. They will use a highly anabolic with a androgenic one, the latter mainly to increase metabolism.

Steroids attempt, and all succeed in varying degrees, to take testosterone and make it work in a more desirable way, and be less dangerous, and have fewer side-effects. What we produce naturally is the worst of them, as crazy as that sounds. What makes it work is we don't pound our bodies with massive amounts of this stuff, sometimes 100's of times what we should have. If you do that with any substance, it's going to have bad effects. Some, like Primobolan are so safe, and so non-androgenic, they can be taken by women, and not make them masculine. On the other hand, it's not very good at building muscle compared to others. Anadrol, on the other hand, will make your aunt your uncle, and should NEVER be taken by women, and even with men, you have to be careful as Hell. But, nothing bulks like it, and for pure efficacy, it's hard to beat.

Incidentally, only one steroid was made for athletic performance, and that's Dianabol. All the rest were made for medical purposes, and were extremely useful, before the media decided to get more viewers, and make doctors very scared to use them.

Most injuries from steroids do not happen when people are taking them. That's the fallacy, and you're quite wrong about it. Steroids allow the entire body to build faster, not just muscle. In fact, they even help your brain create faster synapses, and help nerve tissue grow faster. They reduce scarring as well. They can help people rebuild blood faster too. They have been very useful in working against cachexia, particularly with regards to AIDs.

People get injuries when they STOP taking steroids. Notice what happened to Barry Bonds? Or Jason Giambi? Or Clemens? When they were juicing like madmen, they were on the field, but soon after the crackdown on steroids, they were spending time on the disabled list. Same with Palmeiro. Steroids have a tendency to make more fluid retain around the joints, which allows them to move with less friction. Once you stop, they dry up a bit, and then injuries can happen.

So, please, stop being a product of the media, and realize that steroids are an amazing tool for human health when used properly, and in the intended manner. There's almost nothing you can take at 1000 times the dosage every day, for years on end and not have side-effects. It doesn't mean you should ban these drugs for things they were intended for, and are extremely useful in. But, the media has pounded every idiot over the head, and told them how they are always bad, and most people don't even know the difference between them.

It would be like treating aspirin like it were heroin. Please, make an effort to learn before you condemn something. The media doesn't care if you really understand something (how could they when they don't?), they just want you to read the garbage they write. But, it's never so simple as those articles make it.

Oh, and again, that post was a joke. I'm kind of surprised people didn't see that. I guess my sense of humor has gotten so dry (another word for bad) that people couldn't see it.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By Clauzii on 4/10/2009 11:38:18 PM , Rating: 2
Write this in a forum in Denmark, and You'll see it disappear faster than You can say "Steroids"..


RE: I'm old fashioned
By William Gaatjes on 4/11/2009 12:05:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good God, I was just kidding with the post. You really couldn't tell?


No, i have more or less a vulcan like nature :).

Nice post, i know the possible health effects of steroids but steriods are usually only given to people who really need them. I doubt if you give someone a save amount of the right steroids his or body will not alter the balance when the person has no steroid deficiëncy.

It all comes to genetics. You can build a lot of muscle but when you do not use them you loose them. Same goes for the bones. Same goes for the braincells. The body is constantly rebuilding itself but the blueprint used is part genetic and part dynamic.

I think it is possible to use the right steroid to do some enhancing but the amount is different from person to person. You need a constant medical team to supervise.

quote:
People get injuries when they STOP taking steroids. Notice what happened to Barry Bonds? Or Jason Giambi? Or Clemens? When they were juicing like madmen, they were on the field, but soon after the crackdown on steroids, they were spending time on the disabled list. Same with Palmeiro. Steroids have a tendency to make more fluid retain around the joints, which allows them to move with less friction. Once you stop, they dry up a bit, and then injuries can happen.


Now this is the exact reason steroids have me worried.



RE: I'm old fashioned
By mindless1 on 4/11/2009 1:43:47 AM , Rating: 2
I'm afraid biology would disagree with you. The fittest have survived and evolved, those being less muscular people even with the obvious physical combat advantage of being more muscular due to higher internal steroid production.

I can appreciate that you mentioned moderation in use, but then we have to look at diminshing returns which are contrary to the point of taking them for muscle enhancement if the negative effects are ignored.

To claim that there are other types of steroids is beside the point, you knew what type the media was referring to. Anabolic steroids are a substitute for generic musculature, so of course someone won't ever want to stop using them unless it is from penalty, or recognition of other detrimental side-effects.

It seems as though you can't see the forrest for the trees, steroid use to correct a bodily imbalance is one thing, but to cause one is quite another.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By William Gaatjes on 4/11/2009 2:22:54 AM , Rating: 2
Very true.

Besides in nature before we got civilized having a voracious appetite because of having lot's of muscle is really a disadvantage.

A qoute from the text in the link i posted:

quote:
"At the moment, there really isn't anything out there that alters myostatin levels other than exercise," Wells said. "It costs energy to keep the muscle alive; the body is very nicely tuned, so if you don't need the muscle, you lose it." Since Liam's muscles don't see the effect of myostatin, he has a monstrous appetite. "He's hungry for a full meal about every hour because of his rapid metabolism," Dana Hoekstra told the AP. "He's already eating me out of house and home."


This is a 3 year old boy. Press the link, it is like a superman story. The lady adopted a boy only to find out the boy is unusually strong.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By TA152H on 4/11/2009 3:09:52 PM , Rating: 1
Mindless1,

You're remark about biology would be valid, were it not for the fact our environments have changed dramatically. With almost all animals, and humans of the past as well, you had to balance the size of the animal carefully due to food considerations. That's why we don't have monstrous lions; they'd need too much food, and the extra size wouldn't give them enough of an ability to get it (I guess elephants wouldn't be enough :-P).

At this point in time, being smarter, stronger, and more athletic would have advantages, and also even more because of food considerations, whereas in the past the extra food demand would be a huge detriment.

That's why we crave sugar, and fat, etc... Because we are biologically conditioned to live in an environment where food is scarce, not plentiful. So, we love things with easy calories, we love to store fat for those lean periods, and we naturally choose these foods.

But, the times have changed.

Oh, and with steroids, there are diminishing returns, so small amounts can be quite effective. But, you really need to cycle them too, if you take a good amount because the receptors become less sensitive, and you need stop taking them so they are restored to normalacy. That's why people "cycle".

Most people over 40 could use small amounts of very safe steroids, like Primobolan. In a sense, their testosterone production is lower than normal, and increasing it even slightly not only has positive influences on their lives, but also positive health effects. More muscle mass, less bodyfat, more endurance, and even stronger sexual drive.

And sorry, but Primobolan is exactly the type of steroid that is banned, and it's EXTREMELY safe. But, because it's a steroid, and there are dangerous ones like Anadrol, well, let's ban it too, because the media brain-washed the public.

The irony is, now they give people testosterone, and call it 'hormone replacement', instead of synthetic steroids. Testosterone is the worst, but because it can be called 'hormone replacement', it's palatable. When you hear a bodybuilder is on "Test", or "Anadrol", part of you really wants to tell him to stop, it's not worth it. When you hear someone is on Primobolan, you have no worries at all, and realize he's being smart about it. That's one of the things A-Roid took. So, there's a huge difference in different steroids, huge.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By Subzero0000 on 4/11/2009 3:45:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good God, I was just kidding with the post. You really couldn't tell?


I think you're getting out of touch with the real world.
Why would anyone know that you were just kidding? We can't actually hear your tones or see the expression on your face. All we see is your writing, and with no hints whatsoever as just-being-kidding on the topic.

[ back to the topic ]
the guy in the photo looks really gay... and his pose is gay too...


RE: I'm old fashioned
By PhoenixKnight on 4/10/2009 4:53:43 PM , Rating: 2
Who said that this has to be a replacement for steroids? I mean, just imagine the awesome results you'll get when you combine steroids with the HAL suit.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By mindless1 on 4/11/2009 1:48:42 AM , Rating: 2
It will have very little practical effect. Actually close to zero since it is not an additive strength of muscle plus suit, even if that were possible then you would be exceeding the design capability of the suit and if it were to break that is a very ugly sudden destruction of the limb on which it broke.

The one way steroids might help is that the weak link in the suit as designed is that it requires this up to 10X strengh to still be borne by our primary tools, our hands, and through the wrist they are connected to the support from the suit.

For example, you might have biceps that allow you to curl 75lbs, but if a suit allowed 10 * 75, 750lbs, your wrists and hands cannot support that for more than a brief moment if that.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By surt on 4/10/2009 6:33:37 PM , Rating: 2
Steroids will not make you ten times stronger. Most of the steroids guys at the gym can barely do 2x, rarely 3x what I can do.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By ClownPuncher on 4/10/2009 6:40:29 PM , Rating: 3
It also makes you slaughter your family, according to Chris Benoit.


RE: I'm old fashioned
By phxfreddy on 4/10/2009 10:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
I want the shakey hand version!


Is the OS...
By mmatis on 4/10/09, Rating: -1
RE: Is the OS...
By lightfoot on 4/10/2009 4:26:23 PM , Rating: 1
It's OSX and it plays music, but it only supports the AAC file format and you have to download all software updates from iTunes.


RE: Is the OS...
By Clauzii on 4/10/2009 11:47:21 PM , Rating: 1
See, easy to make iRobot.


RE: Is the OS...
By 67STANG on 4/11/2009 12:33:49 AM , Rating: 3
I'm sure it is controlled by a single button and only responds to your commands if you're wearing a turtlekneck and whiten your teeth.


RE: Is the OS...
By twhittet on 4/11/2009 3:30:50 PM , Rating: 2
If it doesn't run OSX, how long until Apple sues - saying that using both arms at once is a breach of their "multitouch" patent?

All future non-Apple suits will only be able to use one arm at a time.


"So, I think the same thing of the music industry. They can't say that they're losing money, you know what I'm saying. They just probably don't have the same surplus that they had." -- Wu-Tang Clan founder RZA

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