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Greenpeace Guide to Greener Electronics December 2007  (Source: Greenpeace)
Greenpeace says Nintendo is the first company to enter its list at 0 points

Greenpeace issued a report not long after the Apple iPhone launched that deemed the iPhone toxic even though the iPhone met U.S. and EU environmental standards. Greenpeace had, in 2006, ranked Apple lowest in environmental care.

An earlier version of the Greenpeace Guide to Greener Electronics ranked Lenovo as the greenest PC maker and placed Apple at around a 2.5 on the Greenpeace 10 point scale.

Greenpeace has published its December 2007 version of the Guide to Greener Electronics and added TV and game console makers to the list. This version of the Greenpeace guide has 18 companies in total and Greenpeace says for the first time a global company, Nintendo, has entered its list at 0 points.

Microsoft ranks a bit higher on the list at about 2.5 while Apple has moved up to a 6 on the scale from the 2.5 on the April 2007 version of the list.

Controversy surrounded the Guide to Greener Electronics as DailyTech reported in October. The bromide chemical industry claims the laboratory equipment used by Greenpeace is unable to tell the difference between bromide flame-retardants and other brominated compounds leading some to question the validity of Greenpeace’s testing methods.

Greenpeace cites specifically that Nintendo failed to produce redeeming qualities each category: chemical management, chemical phase-out protocol, PVC phase-out policy, brominated flame-retardant (BFR) phase-out policy, PVC-free and BFR-free design, waste production responsibilities, voluntary waste takeback, customer guidance and recycled materials.



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They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By mikefarinha on 11/28/2007 4:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
I think Greenpeace uses a very simple metric for this rating.

Units sold * Power consumption per unit = Greenpeace rating

The hire the number the worse the company is.
... Just my thoughts :)




RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By clovell on 11/28/2007 4:39:51 PM , Rating: 2
Nah - see my post in this thread. The Wii draws 1/10th of the power of the current consoles, it has yet to outsell current consoles 10:1.


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By mikefarinha on 11/28/2007 4:47:35 PM , Rating: 4
I guess the key word is 'yet.' The Wii is currently outselling the PS3 at around a 2.5:1 margin.

Maybe Greenpeace sees this as a possibility and is trying to tackle the problem before it gets out of hand?

Or Greenpeace are just a bunch of wacko hippies ELF sympathizers.


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By clovell on 11/28/2007 4:51:23 PM , Rating: 2
> I guess the key word is 'yet.'

Yeah, but if people didn't buy a Wii, what do you think they'd buy instead? If 95% of the US drove a Yaris, would Greenpeace give Toyota 0 points?


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By mikefarinha on 11/28/2007 4:56:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If 95% of the US drove a Yaris, would Greenpeace give Toyota 0 points?


Probably.

In the mind of Greenpeace, the internal combustion engine is the most evil thing mankind has ever created. Nuke plants are probably the second most evil.


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2007 5:40:04 PM , Rating: 2
Greenpeace is the most evil thing god has ever allowed to exist. Should we kill god?


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 5:51:40 PM , Rating: 2
Well in the minds of the extreme left Greenpeace group, God doesn't exist anyway. If he doesn't exist, then by eliminating Greenpeace by force, you will not be judged by God after your death. So I still vote we get rid of Greenpeace....


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By robinthakur on 11/29/07, Rating: 0
By mikefarinha on 11/29/2007 9:23:32 AM , Rating: 1
If what you say about religion is true in the UK, then I really do feel sorry for your nation.


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By clovell on 11/29/2007 1:13:45 PM , Rating: 2
No, he didn't say anything like that. I'm not sure why you're feeling so insecure about your own beliefs lately as to consistently be putting down on those of others, but you need to stop it, because you're trolling.


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By MrHanson on 11/29/2007 1:37:16 PM , Rating: 2
"You should visit the UK: here if anybody in public life remotely mentions God (unless they are in the employ of the church, and even then people are even more suspicious that they molest kids) everyone kinda writes them off as possibly insane and probably inane while feeling faintly nauseated"

Maybe you're blind or you just skipped this part but it pretty much sounds like he did.


By clovell on 11/29/2007 5:24:28 PM , Rating: 2
Huh? I was referring to

> You certainly don't need to be a terrorist in the sway of Green'peace' to not believe in God,

I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying.... but it is the end of the day, and I'm tired... so...


By Spuke on 11/29/2007 1:44:51 PM , Rating: 3
Comparing us to Sudan and Afghanistan is the only thing that bothered me about his post. Other than that, I agree. We have freedom of religion here and unfortunately that means that anyone with a "religion" can say what they want even if it sounds retarded. And with a population of 300 million, there's going to be some retards. Most people in the US are NOT snake-bite-me religious and quite frankly are somewhere in the middle. I personally don't believe in a christian or muslim God or any other deity but I'm not totally sold that any of them don't exist as I have no proof.

I see that some of us here suffer from the same problems that most Americans have and that's an inability to see outside of your own world. I have had the privilege of visiting other countries and speaking with other people. It gave me a good perspective of things. Most Americans think it's too expensive to visit other countries although most (very close to all) would love to do it. I try to dispel those myths when I get the chance but there's a ton of people with this belief.


By mikefarinha on 11/28/2007 5:53:25 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Greenpeace is the most evil thing god has ever allowed to exist. Should we kill god?


Huh?!?!


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By KernD on 11/28/2007 6:18:26 PM , Rating: 1
You can't kill an idear.


By KashGarinn on 11/29/2007 3:38:38 AM , Rating: 2
*death screams*

..whoops, I think I killed it.

K.


By jtemplin on 11/28/2007 6:40:28 PM , Rating: 2
Could jesus microwave a burrito so hot, that he himself could not eat it?
...
As melon scratchers go, thats a honey-doodle!


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By BansheeX on 11/28/2007 5:52:41 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah, because the PS3 is the only thing that Sony manufactures... The PS2 has sold five times more than your Wii and continues to sell hundreds of thousands a month. They also make electronics devices, btw, and something called a PSP.

Let's bash greenpeace in a way that makes actual sense in the real world, not the imaginary next-gen warzone of fanboys.


By mikefarinha on 11/28/2007 6:00:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The PS2 has sold five times more than your Wii


As far as I know my Wii hasn't sold anything... I'm not like that!

quote:
and continues to sell hundreds of thousands a month.


Yes, but Greenpeace is evil, so when they attack something that something must be good . They are not attacking Sony, therefore Sony must be evil too .

quote:
Let's bash greenpeace


OK!

quote:
in a way that makes actual sense in the real world, not the imaginary next-gen warzone of fanboys.


But its SOOOO much fun!


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By mikefarinha on 11/28/2007 4:51:18 PM , Rating: 1
Also... how many people are actually using their PS3? I mean honestly, it can't be that much. You can only watch Spiderman 3 so many times before it gets old, even if it is in HD. And we all know that PS3 owners aren't playing any games!


By Ringold on 11/28/2007 5:01:12 PM , Rating: 2
Playing games would detract from their Folding@Home points-per-day!

They get out their Xbox360 or Wii for gaming. :P

I mostly kid, though do know someone who does exactly that..


RE: They're Coming Out of The Woodworks Again!
By mikeyD95125 on 11/28/2007 7:39:18 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I haven't even watched the copy of Spiderman that came with my PS3. All I have been doing is playing games. And when I went away for thanksgiving I ran Folding@Home for a long time. Oh yeah and I downloaded a few demos and trailers.


By mmntech on 11/28/2007 10:16:49 PM , Rating: 2
Plays PS2 games great too, and upscales them to HD.
All this bickering over which console is better is pointless. All three consoles are targeted at different markets. Fanboys really need to find an outdoor hobby.

Anyway, I have no respect for Greenpeace. You have people starving in Africa and they're more interested in blocking cargo ships hauling "dangerous materials". Watching that slob founder of theirs Bob Hunter read the newspapers in his underwear on TV didn't boost my confidence in them.
They seem to like Sony for some reason. The PS3 consumes 3.2A at 120v, which is 382 watts peak consumption. More than my PC pulls. They're not just going by power consumption. The rating has more to do with manufacturing technique. According to PSU, Sony's products are free of "toxic" PVCs (supposedly vinyl is toxic now, my record collection is killing me) and they support recycling of old hardware.

I find it somewhat ironic that they ranked Apple so low. Ironic not because of what they do but because Captain Planet himself, Al Gore, is on Apple's board of directors.


By Vanilla Thunder on 11/28/2007 5:56:56 PM , Rating: 4
F*ck Greenpeace.

V.


By Polynikes on 11/28/2007 11:56:36 PM , Rating: 2
Hear hear!


By Lazarus Dark on 11/29/2007 7:08:53 AM , Rating: 3
No thanks.
I'm American.
I'm too lazy for that.


Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By Cygni on 11/28/2007 3:30:04 PM , Rating: 5
Greenpeace is right up there with PETA on the list of wacky self righteous organizations who don't seem to know how to apply logic.

The fact that Nintendo is on their badside... kinda makes me want to buy Nintendo products.

... and I would consider myself a tree-hugger too, so thats sayin' something.




RE: Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 3:54:58 PM , Rating: 2
Greenpeace is just another whacky, borderline extreme enviromentalist group.

They are more concerned with creating a bad name for companies, than they are helping out a cause.

All the while their kids are at home accidentally tossing the Wii remote through their non-environmentally friendly Plasma tvs hung on the wall of their tree fort.


RE: Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By rudy on 11/28/2007 5:06:09 PM , Rating: 5
Actually they are more concerned with getting their name out. By attacking large popular companies when they are doing well they creat publicity to drive up member ship and donations. But really that is all it's about.


RE: Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2007 4:15:35 PM , Rating: 2
I can't stand Greenpeace. I honestly wish the crews of cargo ships could shoot their members as they try to climb onto them as they've done in the past. The fewer of those idiots that are in the world the better.


RE: Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 4:16:55 PM , Rating: 4
I wonder if that can be a new game created for the Wii using the Nunchuck or the new Wii gun.


By FITCamaro on 11/28/2007 5:38:02 PM , Rating: 2
Dude. Awesome idea. Greenpeace Gunfight. Coming to the Nintendo Wii in Summer 2009. Shoot your way through legions of Greenpeace hippies.


RE: Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By Ringold on 11/28/2007 4:58:48 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
kinda makes me want to buy Nintendo products.


I think this is probably a pretty decent gauge. The better a product is, the more fun it is, the more likely it therefore is to boost free market capitalism, the more they're going to trash the company.

Check out that Apple rating from earlier this year, for example. Now they're probably looking at the bombing TV thing, maybe betting that the mp3 market is saturated, and now they jump in score. Seriously, a firm doesn't go from evil smoke-belching factories to assembly plants running on smiles in a few months.

Now Nintendo, the most successful console launch since god knows when, and it scores the lowest possible ranking.

This theory doesn't explain Dell's decent rating, but they might not just be looking close enough. Close enough relationship for me.

Greenpeace land: Success = Pollution
EU: Success = Monopoly = Revenue

If they both hate it, then that means it's probably a good stock tip as well. :P AAPL sure has done well so far.


RE: Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By BansheeX on 11/28/2007 5:41:50 PM , Rating: 2
What I don't understand is, if you're right, why does Sony get a 7/10 when their PS2 is the most successful console in the history of gaming at 150 million units and still going. Not to mention the PSP and all the electronics that Sony manufactures... Surely, by your logic, they should be going after Sony as well.... right?


RE: Kind makes me want to buy a Wii...
By Ringold on 11/28/2007 7:53:32 PM , Rating: 3
I didnt say it made complete sense, as I pointed out Dell. Thanks for pointing out what I already pointed out.

Besides, this is GreenPeace. Who says a Sony proxy didn't donate a little money to the kitty to get a nice score? As many have pointed out, there's not exactly a ton of logic to these anyway.

I still stand my by thesis that if Greenpeace and the EU both hate something, it's the equivalent of a buy rating for a stock, though.


By BansheeX on 11/29/2007 3:45:46 AM , Rating: 2
While Greenpeace is indeed a radical group by most people's standards, it's too easy to just say "Greenpeace is extremist and everything they say is false." Sometimes these people are emotional and wrong, and sometimes they reveal real issues that a complacent consumer or lax government wouldn't have investigated. So it should occur to you that their claims may hold some water. I honestly don't find claims about Nintendo or Apple's poor overseas manufacturing practices all that unbelievable. Greenpeace accepting bribes from Sony and all the other manufacturers who scored a 7, on the other hand...


By Oregonian2 on 11/28/2007 6:41:41 PM , Rating: 1
Well, I think PETA is where Greenpeace was a long time ago. Greenpeace once tried to do good, but they turned into one of that which they were fighting -- a big corporation that feeds their officers big money who want to survive to keep the money rolling in, and keep their jobs. PETA I think still has a bit of mission to their direction. Greenpeace, IMO, doesn't anymore.

They've more than $23 Million a year to spread amongst themselves.

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_financial...

P.S. - Truthfully, PETA has a budget even bigger than Greenpeace's but I at least see the $$$ being spent in advertising their position.


By jhinoz on 11/28/2007 7:23:33 PM , Rating: 2
Nintendo should respond by launching WiiWhaling.

Bonus points for Humpbacks, and ramming the Greanpeace boats.


By marvdmartian on 11/29/2007 9:29:36 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, isn't Greenpeace the folks that get all upset about polluting the atmosphere and global warming, then ride on DIESEL powered ships to go out and protest whaling?? (eye roll) [/sarcasm]


The thing is...
By KingstonU on 11/28/2007 4:15:11 PM , Rating: 2
The thing is that by going green, generally means to become more efficient, and very often that actually creates higher profit margins. For example, reselling your waste to another industry that has use for it. Instead of paying money to dispose of your waste, you make money by selling it to someone else, you are recycling and also the other company is saving money because it is cheaper for them to buy your waste than to grow/mine/produce it for themselves.

When Ford and Shell hired people to come and find ways to make their factories/plants etc.. more environmentally sustainable, and were asked afterwards if any of the changes they made had a negative impact on profit, and they couldn't think of any. So they found many ways to become more enviro-friendly that also increased their efficiency and lowered costs.

Ford now grows grass on the roofs of their factories which helped restore a certain bird population, the plants reduce pollution, and it insulates the building, thus reducing energy costs. They also convert paint exhaust fumes into electrical energy. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04317/410625.stm

I am forgetting the names of all the companies but there was an example where they re-evaluated the paints they were using for their products. They chose to use paints that contained chemicals that were less harmful and were also able use less paints and mixing them to produce all the colors they needed. Lowered cost, more enviro-friendly.




RE: The thing is...
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 4:34:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The thing is that by going green, generally means to become more efficient, and very often that actually creates higher profit margins.

For every company you cite that statistics are manipulated to show a positive outcome due to Greenpeace, there are other companies that have been put out of business totally, eliminating jobs. Greenpeace, Peta, etc all put so much pressure on the EPA to create stricter laws for manufacturing that its more expensive to adjust to the new laws than it is to stay in business.

Its one thing to come in here and say that going green is good for the environment - which is still not a scientific fact in some cases - but its another to come in and say that changing the companies manufacturing processes to go green is increasing profits because thats complete FUD.


RE: The thing is...
By nofranchise on 11/28/2007 6:16:20 PM , Rating: 2
How mind numbingly stupid. As always.


RE: The thing is...
By mdogs444 on 11/28/2007 7:04:41 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, facts are just ridiculous arent they? Typical "save the earth" garbage talk out of your mouth.


RE: The thing is...
By MGSsancho on 11/28/2007 4:37:17 PM , Rating: 2
no it does not. environmental standards increase the cost of production and thus lead to higher prices. and even for a 10,000 square foot facility (small), they have to spend about ~$4m on waste water treatment, ~$5m on air burners and scrubbers, $40k every 4 years to completely update fire sprinklers (oh hey we will not renew your insurance unless you put sprinklers inside your furnaces and presses!), hire environmental engineers and staff, training for maitnence crew, these scrubbers and furnaces use water, electricity, and gas. the start up cost are in the tens of millions to do anything like mobo manufacturing in California, you lose ~2 months a year in shutdowns do to redundant regulatory inspections. and you have the over head.

and i am speaking from personal experience. some industries it is easier that others and less expensive i agree. regulations are awesome. but in states like oh California you have 9 agencies requiring the same information. literally the forms are nearly identical. I have seen people just fax the same report to OSHA and the EPA as well as the local fire department.

again every place is different. And i can totally see the benefits of grass on the roofs of buildings. Boeing could do it with their massive facilities. and just remember why manufacturing has move over seas, its not just labor. but i do not condone their practices. ive seen some great companies (ADR Group) and some horrid ones


RE: The thing is...
By Ringold on 11/28/2007 4:47:44 PM , Rating: 2
Not only all of that, do you really believe Greenpeace is just trying to boost corporate profits anyway?

Come on, we aren't that gullible, are we? :P


RE: The thing is...
By MGSsancho on 11/28/2007 5:05:59 PM , Rating: 2
its not just corporate profits. was was talking about small to medium facilities. like 500 employees or less. but you are right, they are the extreme left. with out them we would not be able to establish a happy equilibrium. its the same with PETA and the NRA. hopefully we can stay in the middle.


Too bad their research is flawed!
By Doormat on 11/28/2007 3:58:50 PM , Rating: 3
By MonkeyPaw on 11/28/2007 5:30:33 PM , Rating: 2
I think more than just their research is flawed, and I think "flawed" might be too nice of a word.


What they don't mention
By Flunk on 11/28/2007 4:29:26 PM , Rating: 3
Greenpeace does not quantify the numbers with hard facts or research. They essentially just make up the numbers, so it means nothing at all. I am all for greener electronics, just in measurable ways. If they setup a fair and equitable rating system that makes sense, maybe we should care

the moment, Greenpeace's numbers are based on nothing but opinion and are therefore worthless. Opinions do not change reality, as much as some people would like them to.




RE: What they don't mention
By TheMold on 11/28/2007 10:25:49 PM , Rating: 2
They also don't mention which companies make donations to them either.


so?
By Screwballl on 11/28/2007 3:28:07 PM , Rating: 2
at least its fun to play their games and its not riddled with lead paint... by the time these are thrown away, we will be disposing of trash on volcanoes or have another way to recycle them




RE: so?
By SirLucius on 11/28/2007 4:32:17 PM , Rating: 2
That's so true. Nintendo products are some of the most durable out there. My dad's original Gameboy still works to this day, despite all the crazy things I did to it as a kid. In fact, every Nintendo product I own, from my NES on, works just fine. Even my brother's old DS, where the hinge holding the upper half to the bottom broke, still works. I can't see myself getting rid of any of my Nintendo stuff any time soon.


Greenpeace is unbelievably stupid
By neothe0ne on 11/28/2007 4:39:42 PM , Rating: 2
If they had conducted this "study" based off opinions drawn from their assholes, I would have considered the study more believable. Instead, they made a study based on a small, outdated FAQ. A freaking FAQ , not even up to date, which justifies giving the company scores of 0 across the board for not enough information! $10 says Greenpeace didn't even contact Nintendo for information.

The clear fact that the FAQ places so much emphasis on Game Paks and plastic containers shows that the FAQ must be from 2001 at the latest.




RE: Greenpeace is unbelievably stupid
By tmouse on 11/29/2007 10:36:17 AM , Rating: 2
Well I suppose the good news is with a score of 0 you have no place to go but up . I guess Nintendo will just send them a letter to give them the information they were too lazy to get and next time their score will jump and DT will have a story how Nintendo has vastly improved their company according to Greenpeace ;)


Hmm
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 11/28/2007 3:37:10 PM , Rating: 3
How many car commercials have I seen about X company that has their headquarters declared a national wildlife preserve, or something of the sort.

Why doesn't Greenpeace go after someone a little more pretentious with regard to Going Green? Then I could base my decision on whether or not the company was lying to me, rather than whether or not Going Green affects their (and my) bottom line.




Too funny
By clovell on 11/28/2007 4:14:53 PM , Rating: 3
By MGSsancho on 11/28/2007 4:25:34 PM , Rating: 3
disclaimer i am not a currently working employee of the industry, only someone who as worked, has friends and family in the R&D part of it. (next 4 years will be exciting!!!)

bromides are used as flame retardants. Look on your periodic table and notice the halogens, they are stable elements and they make excellent flame retardants. problem with them is processing them is a bit messy but its not difficult, water air scrubbers and after air burners fix the problem. air burners are just massive exhaust air fans that lead to a massive furnace. and the water gets filtered, then the sludge on the filters gets removed, pressed, stored in drums and tossed out as hazardous waste. its been done for 23~ years.

but moderns boards don't really have this problem, their have a lot of copper, nickel, fiber glass etc. the cheap boards that are paper based (used in low end devices, PSUs, they look cream color and break easily) are the ones using more of the bromide formulas. There are other solutions out there but not as effective, more expensive, etc. first it was no lead, which wasn't too bad, now its the halogens

one more thing, many of these harmful products are used in manufacturing and are taken care of. rarely end up in the final product. lead and bromide don't really apply to this statement.




fyi
By inperfectdarkness on 11/29/2007 10:10:36 AM , Rating: 1
i was listening to dennis miller on the radio the other day.

his guest was a founder of greenpeace; who left the organization because of the bullshittedness that it had started spiriling into. a guy with PhD's in conservation and ecology.

greenpunks are out of control. the sad part of it? it's hard to legitimately raise environmental concerns with idiots like these raving on and on.




RE: fyi
By mikefarinha on 11/29/2007 11:23:14 AM , Rating: 2
That was probably Patrick Moore, the founder of http://www.greenspirit.com


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