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Apple's Steve Jobs

Google's Larry Page  (Source: Latest Technology News)
Larry Page tries to set the record straight with regards to Android

It's no secret that the relationship between Apple and Google is a bit rocky to say the least. While the two companies forged a partnership with the launch of the original iPhone (Google makes its presence known on the iPhone via Mobile Safari search, YouTube app, and Maps app), Steve Jobs over the past six months or so has been growing a bit resentful of Google's rise to power with its Android mobile operating system.

However, Google's Larry Page now contends that Jobs' anger is misplaced. While speaking at the Allen & Co conference this week in Silicon Valley, Page stated, "We had been working on Android a very long time, with the notion of producing phones that are Internet enabled and have good browsers and all that because that did not exist in the marketplace."

"I think that characterization of us entering after is not really reasonable."

Page then went on to say that Jobs' characterization of the events that took place leading up to Google's release of Android OS as "a little bit of rewriting history."

Earlier this year, Steve Jobs went on a rampage at an Apple Town hall stating that Google's "Don’t Be Evil Mantra Is Bulls**t" -- another source contends that Jobs said that "a load of crap" was the actual statement used, but you get the point.

Last month at the All Things D conference, Jobs again touched on the Google subject stating, "They decided to compete with us. We didn't go into the search business!" 

Despite the difference of opinion on Google' motives for Android, Google CEO (and former Apple board member) Eric Schmidt also weighed in stating that the two companies still have a strong partnership with the iPhone. And just this past March, Jobs and Schmidt were seen canoodling outside a cafe in Palo Alto, California.



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How does it feel, Apple?
By quiksilvr on 7/9/2010 3:47:59 PM , Rating: 5
You've been poking fun at Windows and Windows Mobile for years. Now that someone else is doing it to you (and rightfully so) you get your panties in a bunch?

Stop wasting our time with your trollin' and fix your products.




RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By MonkeyPaw on 7/9/2010 5:10:42 PM , Rating: 5
Apple acts like the smartphone market is exclusive ground for them only. As history has shown, Apple cannot compete in an open market, because they are too busy telling the customer what they want instead of asking. Even iPhone 4 is a miss with it's glass facades and flawed antennae. Sure the guts are magical, but c'mon, people drop phones from time to time.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By akugami on 7/9/10, Rating: 0
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By MonkeyPaw on 7/9/2010 9:59:21 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Glass breaks. Even reinforced glass.


Exactly, which makes it a poor material for portable devices that have a high likelihood of being dropped. Every phone I've ever owned I've dropped at least once, and I'm highly coordinated. It just happens. Plastic or metal are nice materials here. Not glass that sticks out on both sides. Who in their right mind would normally put glass in their pocket?

quote:
Anyone who actually believed the iPhone 4 had indestructible glass is a moron.


I never said that, so I don't get the anger. BTW, I have an iPhone 3G (work phone), so I've used the product. I actually like a lot about the iPhone4 (speed and battery), just not the material choices. Also, sites like Anandtech have done a good writeup on reproducing the antenna issue. It appears that just a simple coating on the metal frame might eliminate the issue. Maybe Apple can fix it.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Mitch101 on 7/10/2010 12:26:34 PM , Rating: 5
None of it matters every mistake Apple has made will soon be a distant memory. Google is right about Steve wanting to rewrite history.

Why? Because Apple has a Time Machine
http://www.apple.com/macosx/what-is-macosx/time-ma...

Unfortunately Steve Jobs thinks his company created a real time machine. Part of me fears waking up tomorrow with a closet full of turtle neck sweaters feeling something is different. Boy would I like to be there when he attempts time travel so I can tell him hes holding it wrong. :)


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By chrnochime on 7/9/2010 10:23:43 PM , Rating: 4
...and anyone who thinks his anecdotal evidence of two iphones not having the antenna problem really means a lot to anyone *but* him is...?


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By akugami on 7/10/10, Rating: 0
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By dark matter on 7/10/2010 6:00:47 AM , Rating: 2
Really, it's so easy to replicate it. You just bridge the gap with your finger on the bottom left of the phone.

If you're struggling, it's because you don't want to believe. that's all.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By sprockkets on 7/10/2010 11:34:09 AM , Rating: 1
Tried it, didn't work on the phone. Not that I would buy one, but just saying, it doesn't seem to affect me if I had one, and I'm left handed.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By darkblade33 on 7/11/2010 10:22:38 PM , Rating: 1
The review of the iPhone at www.anandtech.com
would say otheriwse.

For many people who live in big cities ( like my wife who has ATT - I have Verizon ) .. we both have excellent reception.
I have a Droid, she has a iP4 .. honestly, for people who live in strong signal areas the antenna grab doesn't effect the signal enough to influence the call in any negative way.

The review at Anandtech does say if you squeeze the living thist out of it ( painful ) with sweaty fingers that you do get a 24db drop - but he also went on to say that he never had any phone able to make ( and not drop ) calls with a signal as low as he got in weaker areas .. Anand actually said he held onto calls in areas where his iPhone 3gs wouldnt.. that being said - there are people who buy the new iPhone that really shouldnt because reception in their area is not good on ATT. I just posted in another thread on here that in my old neighborhood Verizon was awful. It just depends on where you live. Choose your carrier according to where you need your reception most.. None of the carriers offer great reception every single place.

So even though I'll stick with my Droid, I honestly do feel most people who complain most about the iPhone are Droid fanboys & people who dont even own the iPhone..

I'm not a fanboy, I just use what I like. At one time I loved Sony ( had a PS2 ) and it didn't make me go buy a PS3 like alot of people. I got a XB360 and yeah I got the RROD after nearly 3yrs - so I qualified for the free fix - and now Ive had the same unit since late 2005 ..


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Rockinelle on 7/9/2010 6:00:59 PM , Rating: 5
Apparently they consider it evil for a competitor produce a competitive product and they've grown resentful. Boohoo


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Tony Swash on 7/9/10, Rating: 0
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By bbomb on 7/9/10, Rating: -1
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Darkskypoet on 7/9/2010 8:11:01 PM , Rating: 5
Sorry.. But I call Bullsh** to that comment. Long before you could buy an iPhone, Palm made 'THE' smart phone... I was using my Treo 650 with touch screen... And uh lets see:

Spreadsheet to create and email invoices to clients
Music playing from flash and from expansion SDCard
Could play divx via a 3rd party media player from SDCard
Could SMS, MMS, etc from phone... Just no Wifi support..

But wait that was what, 5 years ago now? iPhone wasn't revolutionary.. just a pretty package that included everyone else's stuff.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Tony Swash on 7/9/10, Rating: -1
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Darkskypoet on 7/9/2010 8:48:47 PM , Rating: 5
Not really...

Take a look at the original Palm hand helds... Full touch screen? Yep. Hand writing interface? Yep. Could we consider that a form of gesturing or multi-touch? sure. But really I mean if you don't believe me.. take a look here:

"http://members.shaw.ca/guis/palmos41.html"

Or better still, you think apple invented the full touch screen look?

"http://www.pencomputing.com/images/tungsten_t5_rig..."

I mean come on... You can say Apple has a pretty O/S, and that an App store isn't just a commercialized package repository that *nix users have been utilizing FOREVER... but please don't try even try to tell me with a straight face that Apple did anything first... It simply bundled what others had already done the major R&D on, with a certain balance of compromises that others hadn't tried yet.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Darkskypoet on 7/9/2010 8:50:35 PM , Rating: 2
Another link... apparently 3 links is:
"This comment is apparently spam and we do not allow spam comments."

And just a nice shot covering the range:

http://www.totalpda.co.uk/img/blog/palm-cashback-m...


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Tony Swash on 7/10/10, Rating: -1
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By sprockkets on 7/9/2010 9:23:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Sorry.. But I call Bullsh** to that comment. Long before you could buy an iPhone, Palm made 'THE' smart phone... I was using my Treo 650 with touch screen... And uh lets see:


Yeah, and uh, who made the Treo? Here's a hint, it wasn't Palm...

quote:
Spreadsheet to create and email invoices to clients


You give credit to palm when that was docs to go?
I've used Multimail, and it wasn't till the last version it became halfway stable.

quote:
Music playing from flash and from expansion SDCard


Which we can perhaps credit that to WM before palm. But, you can't compare that to the integration that itunes offers.

quote:
Could play divx via a 3rd party media player from SDCard


Yeah, TCPMP was awesome. But you can't compare third party offerings as a claim to palm either.

quote:
Could SMS, MMS, etc from phone... Just no Wifi support..


Yeah, why wasn't their wifi? Palm said it was because no one wanted it - which is BS. How did people react when wifi was denied on the BB bold on Verizon?

Why no mp3 ringtones without a 3rd party hack? At least the netfront browser blew IE mobile away.

You like the small keyboard/stylus approach? Those innovations belong to the 90s. I liked my LifeDrive, but losing the original stylus was annoying, since Palm's own replacements were junky compared to the original.

quote:
But wait that was what, 5 years ago now? iPhone wasn't revolutionary.. just a pretty package that included everyone else's stuff.


So where exactly is Apple's Graffiti in the iphone?


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Darkskypoet on 7/9/2010 11:40:51 PM , Rating: 4
Actually, it was Palm that made the Treo.. My Treo ran Palm OS, it was a Palm device... As much as the iPhone is an Apple device, and not Foxconn's.

You're missing the entire point however I fear.

Palm never sued anyone for releasing apps for their hardware.. It was encouraged. The strength in the Palm OS scape, that is sadly neutered with the iPhone with Apple controlling all, is that I didn't have to hack my device to install any 3rd party app I wanted.

Also Apple doesn't make every app for the iPhone, it is 3rd parties that have made the App Store as good and bad as it is. So are we then saying these 3rd party apps can't be counted as part of the iPhone experience?

The iPhone is an iPod with a GSM radio and wifi... so yes naturally the music integration is wonderful, however that does not a smart phone make.

All I am saying, is that allowing for hardware changes over the past 5-6 years my PALM Treo 650 could do everything the iPhone does, and more. The iPhone does it faster, prettier, with a larger screen, and has a far better browsing experience. HOWEVER: 5+ years later in this market segment? It damn well should!

Besides which... cut and paste and tethering came standard with my treo 650 in like 2005/6... I had to wait for various firmware upgrades from Apple before my iPhone 3G could do it in 2009. Srsly? Sad.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By sprockkets on 7/10/10, Rating: -1
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By nafhan on 7/12/2010 9:47:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No, you are missing the point, because Handspring made the Treo and the whole expansion scheme.
Funny thing about your example is the whole Palm/Handspring thing has some striking similarities to the Apple/Nextstep thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handspring_(company)


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By themaster08 on 7/10/2010 2:14:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
we would all be on 1" monochrome screens on phones that do nothing but make calls.
As opposed to 3.5" IPS panel screens on phones that do everything but make calls?


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Helbore on 7/10/2010 12:35:59 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, do people really believe this "there was no smartphone before the iPhone" bullshit? I owned touchscreen smartphones 5 years before the iPhone ever came out.

And before you say "but the iPhone revolutionised the interface" every smartphone every year brought new improvements to the design. Yes, the iPhone in 2007 had a better interface than my WinMo phone I bought 5 years earlier. THat's what 5 years of improved development and hardware capabilites do for you. It would be like saying a Cor 2 Duo PC is better than a 486, therefore the Core 2 Duo revolutionised computers. Of course new tech is better than old tech (one would hope, anyway)

The iPhone was not the first phone with a larger than 1" screen. It wasn't the first with a colour screen. It wasn't even first with a touchscreen. I should also add that the iPhone 1 couldn't even install apps, whilst every other smartphone could, so it sure as hell wasn't the first to do something other than make calls.

But you just go on comparing the iPhone to a Nokia 3310 and keep believing it was the revolution is was. It makes no-one look stupid but you.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By rocky12345 on 7/9/2010 9:54:32 PM , Rating: 2
So what your saying is because Apple is making a product that no one else can make a product that competes with the Apple product. Did I read that write? Hate to tell you this but that is what makes the world go around is when companies compete with one another in a market. Just because Apple made a phone does not mean that no one else can. maybe in little steves mind that is true but in the real world not so much.

Also Apple never invented the smartphone that was done way before Apple thought of it. All Apple did was change the looks a bit & give the phone a snazzy screen well ok a low res screen & called it the greatest thing since sliced bread. All of what Apple did was takes ideas that other companies had thought of already & put them together to make a phone. Hell even the iPhone name was stolen by Apple Linksys had iPhone products out on the market way before Apple even thought of calling their phone iPhone. Apple knew Linksys was selling iPhone product also but just released their phone under that name anyways.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Tony Swash on 7/10/2010 10:13:34 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
So what your saying is because Apple is making a product that no one else can make a product that competes with the Apple product.


No am not saying that. Google is free to compete with Apple as is everyone else. My comment is about the substance of this article.

What I am saying is that Larry Page is wrong and Steve Jobs is right in relation to their accounts of the relationship between the iPhone and the latter Android interface..

I am saying that there is ample evidence to strongly suggest that Google changed its design for the Android interface after the iPhone came out to more closely resemble the iPhone.

I also have been making the point that Eric Schmidt, the Google CEO, was sitting on Apple's board whilst this was happening, behaviour which is at least questionable in my view.


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/10/2010 12:03:51 PM , Rating: 2
Ok even if you and Jobs are right? Who gives a shit?

Did the CEO of Honda blast other car makers for coming out with hybrids too? Does the CEO of Porsche cry about other companies using high performance Bosch parts? Did Henry Ford blast everyone who came out with cars besides Ford??

WOW Tony, you mean companies respond to competition, what the consumer is buying, and other market forces? HOLY SHIT!! You just solved the criminal case of the century! You're a goddamn genius. Please link your published paper on such an amazing observation that nobody's ever thought of before.

Seriously watching you argue such a retarded position is like, well, watching retards fight. I guess everyone besides Apple should just stop making smart-phones this fucking instant, right? Or they should purposely use interfaces the consumers don't want because Jobs might accuse you of copying him!


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By sprockkets on 7/10/10, Rating: 0
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Tony Swash on 7/11/10, Rating: 0
RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/11/2010 4:30:07 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Google then held its annual development conference earlier this year when its senior executives repeatedly attacked Apple and made it plain that they saw Apple as some sort of enemy.


Apple is EVERYONE'S enemy right now because of Steve Jobs and his maniacal assault on open platforms in his attempt to lock-down the entire world. I mean for fucks sake, how many lawsuits has Apple filed this year alone for bullshit anyway?


RE: How does it feel, Apple?
By Tony Swash on 7/11/10, Rating: 0
"We didn't go into the search business!"
By xler8r on 7/9/2010 4:05:02 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah... because you'd get WTFPWNT upon impact if you did Jobs, lol. Then again now that all your eyePhone users information is available to you... I may be wrong....




RE: "We didn't go into the search business!"
By Chapbass on 7/9/2010 4:14:39 PM , Rating: 5
Just remember...If apple went into the search industry, they would ban any sort of search that had adult content in it. And by ban, I mean they would "Cleanse the internet of its impure content".

Or something like that. Then they'd say Google search is the devil and that theirs is magical.


RE: "We didn't go into the search business!"
By Iaiken on 7/9/10, Rating: 0
By rs1 on 7/9/2010 5:11:24 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think Stevie Claus is quite so nice as to shove the piece of coal into your stocking after dragging you naked into the street.


By Obujuwami on 7/9/2010 5:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget that the website would be shiny and have a giant apple logo on it.

Actually, why don't they do this so the rest of the interwebs isn't trolled by the mac fan bois. GO FOR IT APPLE! TAKE OUR HEADACHES AWAY!


By chaos386 on 7/12/2010 1:31:45 PM , Rating: 2
Forget search, Google's real business is advertising (search is just a way to get more exposure for their ads), a business Apple did go into recently.


A little difference...
By Aikouka on 7/9/2010 4:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Last month at the All Things D conference, Jobs again touched on the Google subject stating, "They decided to compete with us. We didn't go into the search business!"


I'm certainly no expert in this subject area, but what first hit me when I read this is the one question you should ask yourself when going into a new business area (or starting a new business in a field) is whether or not there's a decent-sized market (or market segment) available for your product to thrive. Apple entering the search business would be foolish as there really isn't much need for another search engine. Google took off over the old crop (Yahoo, Ask Jeeves!, Dogpile, etc) because it filled the market of people wanting a no-frills, but very potent search engine.

If you look at the smartphone sector, what you had was WinMo 6.x and RIM's Blackberry essentially trying to compete with each other (where Blackberry was quite dominant), but the casual user either had to put up with these clunky business phones or resort to basic "dumbphones". This is where Apple originally fit in with the iPhone as they provided a much simpler experience where you could easily navigate using a single finger rather than having to pull the stylus out or roll a ball around. But I'd say Google wasn't shooting for either of those areas... it wanted to hit the middle. They provided an OS that is capable of similar customization as you could do in WinMo 6.x yet had the same simple and intuitive interface found in iOS. Essentially, the mobile OS aims to please the nerdy and normal phone users alike.

Not to mention this gave other smartphone manufacturers their first real mobile OS they could use to compete with the iPhone, given that Apple certainly isn't going to license out their mobile OS. Factor in that the Android OS is free for manufacturers, and the dollar signs in their eyes were as clear as day!

TLDR: Google filled an open area in the smartphone sector, but no open area really exists in the search sector, so the comparison is somewhat poor.




RE: A little difference...
By bbomb on 7/9/2010 7:15:25 PM , Rating: 3
Googles Android OS is direct competition to Apples products and to say that it is in an entirely different segment because its open and iOS isn't is grasping at straws to differentiate the two.

Apple showed Google how to do it so Google did it to take marketshare from Apple. Business as usual.


RE: A little difference...
By Darkskypoet on 7/9/2010 8:26:32 PM , Rating: 4
Gotta disagree... Palm showed everyone how to do it... Then disappeared off the scene of innovation for like 5 years. Sadly, that was a magical disapearing trick. However, HP might finally make something of the IP. If you think Apple has patents in the mobile device segment, just take a look at Palms... There's a reason Apple shut up about suing Palm over touch interface patents. Palm holds most of them.


Why Does Android OS look like iPhone OS v1.0
By jbelkin on 7/10/2010 4:22:19 AM , Rating: 2
Of course, no one really has to guts to ask why Google Docs looks like MS Office or that Gmail looks like Yahoo mail or that android looks like iphone OS 1.0 - and when they actually compete, they lose? Google video to YouTube? Google Nexus to iphone? No question - their search engine is brilliant - has Google has a second great idea not copied directly from a competitor? Is Google a one trick pony? why is 97% of their revenue still from search? they need to take a look in the mirror and ask what are they bringing to the table before trying to REWRITE the actual truth of the overall situation - they need to face up to the fact they have built a main business as second wave company (search) but bringing something new & brilliant at least there but everything else since then? Not just copying but copying copying? Kind of like Geely copying Kia copying Lexus copying Mercedes?




RE: Why Does Android OS look like iPhone OS v1.0
By Helbore on 7/10/2010 12:55:12 PM , Rating: 2
How does Android look like iOS 1.0? Have you even used Android before? Becuase last time I checked, the iPhone - even with iOS 4 - does having things like fully customisable home screens with widgets, full multitasking or a proper notification system like the Android tray.

You might as well say iOS 1.0 looked like WinMo or Symbian.


By Helbore on 7/10/2010 12:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
That should have said "doesn't have things like"


By T2k on 7/9/2010 3:51:45 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously: secrets, lies, deception - all part of Apple's modus operandi ever since its first product.
I dare to say they couldn't even survive quarter-after-quarter without their bold-faced BS propaganda machine because while products are nice they are not exceptional at any way - without smoke & mirror their sales wouldn't even sustain (and that's if we forget the fact they ride the ever-rising PC sales since OS X came out.)




By stmok on 7/10/2010 7:48:47 AM , Rating: 3
Don't worry. Karma has always been life's way of balancing things out.

One can't keep poking hornet's nests and not expect to be stung...Eventually, they're going to provoke a party that will prove very fatal in the long run.

Just sit back with popcorn and enjoy the show. :)


Is Android really competing with the iPhone?
By GaryJohnson on 7/9/2010 3:58:04 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah they're both "smartphone" platforms, but "smartphone" is really just a device characterization and not a market segment.

Would most people who have bought an Android phone ever have bought an iPhone if Android didn't exist? I think Android competes more with Palm/Blackberry/WinMo than with Apple's offering.




By weskurtz0081 on 7/9/2010 4:14:23 PM , Rating: 2
I went from an iPhone to an Android phone.

Yes, they are competing products. Do you think that everyone that uses NON iPhone's right now wouldn't buy an iPhone if it was the ONLY smart phone on the market?


Apple not a software company
By mattclary on 7/9/2010 4:19:17 PM , Rating: 2
Apple always says it is "the whole gadget", and not a software company. So, no competition, right???? lol




Smoke and Mirrors
By judasmachine on 7/10/2010 7:33:46 AM , Rating: 2
All this "squabble" is, is theater. They keep it up to electrify their base fans. Apple has it's Drones, and so does Google. (I'm kind of in the Google ballpark myself.) But it's just like the actress frienemy BS. Apple and Google just need to find a dark corner and make up. Who cares so long as they keep pushing each other to innovate.




"... rewriting history."
By Phoque on 7/10/2010 9:41:47 AM , Rating: 2
Is that the magic Apple consistently refers to?




Larry, seriously
By macthemechanic on 7/14/2010 3:33:33 PM , Rating: 2
You have no room to talk.




didnt he know?
By shin0bi272 on 7/9/10, Rating: 0
RE: didnt he know?
By judasmachine on 7/10/10, Rating: 0
RE: didnt he know?
By YashBudini on 7/10/10, Rating: -1
Just rewriting history?
By Constable odo on 7/9/10, Rating: -1
RE: Just rewriting history?
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 7/9/2010 7:10:11 PM , Rating: 4
reader1?


RE: Just rewriting history?
By vortex222 on 7/9/2010 8:14:50 PM , Rating: 2
i was thinking Perks.. Reader1 talks about the MS monopolies and closed systems being all we should use. He isnt directly an apple nutcase, even if he hints at it.


RE: Just rewriting history?
By sprockkets on 7/9/2010 9:28:17 PM , Rating: 2
no, he's not rated at -1


RE: Just rewriting history?
By Helbore on 7/10/2010 12:58:45 PM , Rating: 2
You spoke too soon!


RE: Just rewriting history?
By sprockkets on 7/10/2010 10:19:50 PM , Rating: 2
haha usually when I read a thread reader1 is already at -1, and it doesn't take as long as it did here :)


RE: Just rewriting history?
By semiconshawn on 7/9/2010 8:24:15 PM , Rating: 4
Really? A three pronged attack? are you eleven? Oh god no its worse your an apple treky... no girls for you either i guess just more prongs.


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