DailyTech - Google Seeks Data From Competitors

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Internet Google Seeks Data From Competitors
Michael Hoffman (Blog) - October 7, 2006 10:00 PM

21 comment(s) - last by Pythias.. on Oct 9 at 11:36 AM

Google wants information from companies supporting a different book-scanning effort

In an effort to defend itself against a lawsuit filed by book publishers, Google is subpoenaing documents from competitors Yahoo and Microsoft. Google hopes to get useful data to help form a legal defense after being sued by a number of organizations.

The Authors Guild and McGraw-Hill Cos., along with a number of publishing companies and authors, believe Google is infringing the rights of copyright holders with its service. The Open Content Alliance, designed by Yahoo, is openly supported by publishers. Google also plans to subpoena documents from the Association of American Publishers, Random House and Amazon.

The legal status of older books is a gray area that has not been defined clearly by attorneys or book publishers. Google hopes to be able to view information, including the current copyright status, of books in the rival project. The companies subpoenaed by Google can choose to mark all turned over documents as confidential, which means Google can not use the gathered data to get an unfair advantage.

Several major universities including the University of California and Harvard are allowing Google to scan their libraries. The New York Public Library will allow Google to scan non-copyrighted works to be posted in their entirety.

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What pointless lawsuit can we start next?

By ThisSpaceForRent on 10/8/2006 12:26:23 PM , Rating: 2

I don't understand what their issue is. They will still own copyrights to new material they publish. They could even, gasp and pause for effect, sell their copyrighted material over the Internet much akin to what Apple does with music. Bottom line they are probably just fishing for a quick dollar, or media exposure. Everyone loves a good fight after all.

RE: What pointless lawsuit can we start next?

By Christopher1 on 10/9/2006 1:15:20 AM , Rating: 2

That's right, they will still own the books. Apparently, they haven't thought about how Google having a blurb of a book will HELP them sell more books, by exposing books that some people would like but would otherwise overlook in the Harry Potter, big-name book era.

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RE: What pointless lawsuit can we start next?

By TomZ on 10/9/2006 9:34:20 AM , Rating: 2

If it truly was win-win as you suggest, then google would simply approach the publishers and discuss a licensing agreement, and the publishers would be interested in the deal. But it is far cheaper and easier to hire hundreds of people and give them scanners to scan library books.

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RE: What pointless lawsuit can we start next?

By TomZ on 10/9/2006 9:32:11 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I don't understand what their issue is.

The issue is that google is using their content for a commercial purpose - to make money - without compensating the copyright owners at all for use of their content. The value of google's offering is the value of their search combined with the value of the content. Without the content, the search is of no value. And google takes that value without paying for it at all. How fair is that?

So who is the greedy, money-hungry corporation again - is it the publishers or google itself?

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RE: What pointless lawsuit can we start next?

By Jellodyne on 10/9/2006 10:40:09 AM , Rating: 2

Currently Google does this for web sites, including commercial ones -- it uses their content for commercial purposes, to make money, without compensating the sites. How is that fair at all?

It's EXACTLY the same, except that the web sites encourage it because they realize that Google isn't ripping them off, but in fact delivering them customers.

By your standard, a librarian or book store owner who knows the contents of books shouldnn't be allowed to make a living by telling people what books to get.

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RE: What pointless lawsuit can we start next?

By TomZ on 10/9/2006 10:57:14 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
By your standard, a librarian or book store owner who knows the contents of books shouldnn't be allowed to make a living by telling people what books to get.

...but libraries also purchase the books they loan out. So that is fair use, IMO. Bookstores are selling the books, so same situation there.

quote:
It's EXACTLY the same, except that the web sites encourage it because they realize that Google isn't ripping them off, but in fact delivering them customers.

I agree - it is not a clear right-and-wrong argument in all cases. Sometimes there is net benefit to the content providers. But I think the fact that the publishers are fighing google in court is a clear indication that the balance of value is going towards google in this case.

Also, why don't the content providers have any rights as to whether they are indexed by google? Using your web site example, if I own a web site, shouldn't I have the right to have its content excluded from google searches, if I so choose? Am I not at least somewhat deprived of my rights afforded to me by copyright laws?

Anyway, my real point is that, it is a misrepresentation to say that the publishers are greedy businesses out to make a buck, and google is being a good guy and acting in society's best interests. That is not the case. Google is also a greedy business acting in their self-interest to make money. Both sides are the same in that sense.

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First P2P for music, now Google for books...

By Heron Kusanagi on 10/8/2006 1:14:57 AM , Rating: 2

What's next? Could it be...

'Britiannica sues Wikipedia for infringment of copyright'

Could this political correctness get any further? Is the 'right to sue' the only way things get done around here now?

RE: First P2P for music, now Google for books...

By RogueSpear on 10/8/2006 12:48:45 PM , Rating: 2

Just think of all the great things that don't get done because of the threat of being sued.

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RE: First P2P for music, now Google for books...

By Suomynona on 10/8/2006 8:26:07 PM , Rating: 2

Nope, I can't think of any. Which things?

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RE: First P2P for music, now Google for books...

By Christopher1 on 10/9/2006 1:10:53 AM , Rating: 2

Oh, like making life-saving medicines because they have too many side effects that doctors and drug companies would almost be SURE to be sued if they released them.

Making better OS's, because Microsoft gets sued everytime they try to use someone else's code in their OS.

Those are only two off the top of my head, and were I to have more time I could probably think of more.

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RE: First P2P for music, now Google for books...

By TomZ on 10/9/2006 9:19:31 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Oh, like making life-saving medicines because they have too many side effects that doctors and drug companies would almost be SURE to be sued if they released them.

LOL, so we should toss out IP protection (patents in this case) entirely, according to your argument? Because after all, if one drug company develops a new medicine, all others should be able to produce it for free, because it is in society's best interest? No way! That is really short-sighted - it would be real good in the short term (like less than 5 years), but in the long term, there is no incentive for R&D investment, and thus all innovation would stop. What would be the impact of that in the long term, do you think?

IP protection is important because it ensures that successful R&D investment can lead to returns on that investment, which is what enables innovation.

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By RyanM on 10/7/2006 10:34:13 PM , Rating: 5

This is just another moneygrab by greedy corporations that have enjoyed exploiting artists for decades uncontested.

Now, of course, they're up in arms because somebody is actually attempting to take public domain material and make it accessible to everyone without the need for a print edition, thus proving them obsolete.

Nevermind the fact that if they'd have been smart enough, they could've come up with advertiser-supported free books. Since someone is about to do it, they're of course pissed they didn't think of it.

It's the RIAA/MPAA all over again, but just different enough to be interesting.

Google's going to win this one, because their opposition really doesn't have a leg to stand on.

RE: Copyright moneygrab

By TomZ on 10/9/2006 9:26:41 AM , Rating: 2

Another view of this situation is that google is making fortunes off of society's investments in producing content. Think about it - they make billions of dollars from content produced and paid for by others - and how much of that do they pay back to the content providers? Zero.

I'm not saying google is right or wrong in what they are doing; I'm just pointing out that there is a pretty valid argument on the other side as well.

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Hehe

By Griswold on 10/8/06, Rating: 0

RE: Hehe

By Heron Kusanagi on 10/8/2006 4:04:34 AM , Rating: 2

Have you, indeed?

I can't speak for all but I am sure not everyone reads only hardware reviews. Heck, picking up books like David Eddings' Belgariad or Dale Brown's Plan of Attack to read probably can take your mind off alot of things.

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RE: Hehe

By Griswold on 10/8/2006 8:42:01 AM , Rating: 1

I wouldnt have posted that if it wasnt so. However, since truth often hurts, it would be funny to see who votes comments up/down.

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RE: Hehe

By MarkHark on 10/8/2006 5:26:27 PM , Rating: 2

I'm an avid reader of Dailytech/Anandtech, as well as good old Amdmb.com and Van's Hardware, before that, and a few select other hardware sites. Computer hardware has long been a personal hobby for me.

Nevertheless, while I'm still far from tommygulch's 6-7 thousand, I have also read way more than a few hundred books, school stuff excluded from that count.

I must admit, though, that after being infected by the internet virus, I've become much less constant to reading paper books than before.
Or was it after Asimov's death? :P

bottom line is, don't be too quick to judge your fellow AT/DT'ers ;)

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RE: Hehe

By tommygulch on 10/8/2006 2:18:01 PM , Rating: 2

probably around 6000 or 7000 by now. Have many have you read so far?

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sounds familiar...

By pepsimax2k on 10/8/2006 7:25:29 PM , Rating: 2

>>Google is subpoenaing documents from competitors Yahoo and Microsoft.
>>Google hopes to get useful data...

sounds familiar, i once remember another fairy large web company facing government pressure to hand over various information. oh wait...

RE: sounds familiar...

By Pythias on 10/9/2006 11:36:56 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Google is subpoenaing documents from competitors Yahoo and Microsoft.

I wasnt aware that the "Everybody else does it!" schpeel was a valid defense. For that matter its hadly a good excuse to peak at your competitors market strategy.

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