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Print E-mail del.icio.us 24 comment(s) - last by JimmyC.. on May 29 at 9:59 PM

Do no evil indeed

Google authorities admitted Monday to assisting Indian police in their hunt for 22-year-old Rahul Krishnakumar Vaid, an IT professional from Gurgaon, India, who stands accused of constructing vulgar posts against a top Indian politician.

Indian officials said Vaid violated the country’s Information Technology Act of 2000’s obscenity prohibitions when he posted “insulting images” of a Hindu saint to an Orkut community called “I Hate Sonia Gandhi.”

Authorities responded to a complaint from Indian Congress activist Arnol Bhokare, and cyber-crime police from the city of Pune contacted Orkut owner Google for assistance in identifying the poster. That search soon led police to Vaid, resulting in his arrest last Friday.

During police interrogations, Vaid said he was unaware that he would wind up in jail for his postings -- a fact confirmed by his e-mail address, which includes part of his full name: Rahulvaidindia@gmail.com.

The leader for “I Hate Sonia Gandhi” was not arrested, however, because Indian law permits the expression of dislike for government and its officials provided it is done so in a civil, orderly fashion. The law does not protect against expression that includes sacrilege or obscenities, the definition of which is considerably wide due to the country’s conservative government.

Google said that it supports the free expression of its users, but it was forced to disclose Vaid’s identity as part of its policy of compliance with local laws and legal processes.

A search for the community on Orkut reveals that administrators deleted it for violating Orkut’s “community standards.”

Both human rights organizations and the United States Congress are beginning to take note of American companies’ willingness to help foreign governments crack down on dissenters. In February 2007, Republican representative Christopher Smith lambasted Google, Yahoo!, Cisco, and Microsoft in a letter to the Wall Street Journal, where he accused them of assisting the Chinese government in its attempts to identify and punish pro-democracy Chinese nationals. Later in November, Yahoo’s CEO Jerry Yang faced congress in a grueling three-hour session, in which he testified in front of the parents of a Chinese journalist that his company helped arrest.

For the most part, Internet companies say that government compliance – even when that compliance can result in human rights violations – is a necessary evil of doing business in foreign lands, and that developing markets such as China and India are simply too lucrative to ignore or leave to competitors. Short of that, dissenters that live under oppressive governments need to take adequate measure in cloaking their identities, lest they end up targeted by their government. A Yahoo response filed in a San Francisco court last September said cyber dissidents “assumed the risk of harm when they chose to use Yahoo! China email and group list services to engage in activity they knew violated Chinese law.”



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Necessary evil?
By paydirt on 5/20/2008 8:34:27 AM , Rating: 5
I know "necessary evil" is not a Google quote. I gotta ask Google, is it "do no evil," or "do no evil, unless it is necessary."

Depends on what the definition of evil is...




RE: Necessary evil?
By Polynikes on 5/20/2008 11:21:15 AM , Rating: 2
They're hypocrites in my book. If they really were doing no evil, they would have refused and/or pulled out of India altogether. Clearly they do not hold as fast to their principles as they say.

I dunno, maybe Google thinks free speech isn't necessary.


RE: Necessary evil?
By SilthDraeth on 5/20/2008 4:22:34 PM , Rating: 2
Only a fool thinks anything they do online is anonymous.

And yet, any time a story like this breaks, there are tons of angry and shocked people crying outrage.

At least I intelligent enough to know that there are far to many things I am ignorant of to be shocked by something like this.


RE: Necessary evil?
By JimmyC on 5/29/2008 9:59:05 PM , Rating: 2
My line of pondering leads me to consider that if these American companies weren't providing services in these tumultuous lands then a homegrown business would pop up to fill the need, one who would necessarily be ten times more likely to turn over data like this to authorities. So kudos to Google for doing what needs to be done in order to operate and bring a share of these emerging markets income back to our shores, it's not like we can't use every bit of capital infused into our sagging economy as possible.

Besides, they took our jobs!!


RE: Necessary evil?
By mal1 on 5/21/2008 9:50:41 AM , Rating: 2
Google:

The official search engine of Oceania.


RE: Necessary evil?
By mindless1 on 5/22/2008 8:24:25 PM , Rating: 2
Definition of evil does not matter, their expression is not meant as anything more than a marketing concept - remembering that it is a business.


Storm in a teacup
By psychobriggsy on 5/20/2008 9:16:25 AM , Rating: 5
"Google said that it supports the free expression of its users, but it was forced to disclose Vaid’s identity as part of its policy of compliance with local laws and legal processes."

No different from a court issued warrant or similar over here. What a storm in a teacup. The only thing it has done is get wide coverage for what appears to be a rather poor law in India, although at least they're allowed to civilly diss their leaders.

It's not Google that we should be annoyed at, it's that law in India.




RE: Storm in a teacup
By kattanna on 5/20/2008 2:09:38 PM , Rating: 2
if the servers that contained said post do reside within the country, then they should be bound by the local laws.

but i wonder, did they?


India?
By Ensoph42 on 5/20/2008 8:40:00 AM , Rating: 2
I thought India was beyond this kind of crap. Seriously dissapointed. Also I'd like to hear more about what Google did to "help". At the very least I hope they dragged their feet a bit. A few levels of coorporate red tape just to make the process a hassle. I never liked Google anyway.




RE: India?
By Noya on 5/20/2008 10:28:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I thought India was beyond this kind of crap.


I take it you didn't catch that episode of "30 Days" on FX, where the guy who lost his job to outsourcing lived with a upper-middle class Indian family?


This isn't quite the same cat.
By wordsworm on 5/20/2008 9:11:34 AM , Rating: 1
This isn't the same situation that was found in China. It isn't for dissension that Rahul Krishnakumar Vaid is under arrest for, it's the obscene way in which he did it:
quote:
Indian officials said Vaid violated the country’s Information Technology Act of 2000’s obscenity prohibitions when he posted “insulting images” of a Hindu saint to an Orkut community called “I Hate Sonia Gandhi.”
If the government of India has to squelch this kind of speech to prevent a nationwide outrage and its subsequent violence, then I have to conquer with the logic behind the arrest. As the article pointed out, the main party behind the political dissent was not under arrest:
quote:
The leader for “I Hate Sonia Gandhi” was not arrested, however, because Indian law permits the expression of dislike for government and its officials provided it is done so in a civil, orderly fashion.


Now, the tone of the article is that what Google did was, in the eyes of the business, a necessary evil associated with doing business in India, is insulting to the Indian authority. Especially considering how convoluted the copyright laws in the US and some European countries are - for instance the issue of prosecuting companies for providing links to copyright infringing materials while not actually hosting the offending material. This is not to mention Google which is being pressured to check to make sure copyrighted material isn't googleable. As far as I'm concerned, these are absurd cases against these defendants. They're not providing illegal material, they're merely making that material easily found - even for authorities. What issues are important to other nations are bound to be different, as these are different cultures with different values and concerns.

In any case, let's stop accusing other nations of having poor notions of evil and good, right and wrong, when we ourselves so easily forget that our own are just as gross.




By supremelaw on 5/20/2008 6:07:10 PM , Rating: 2
> considering how convoluted the copyright laws in the US and some European countries are - for instance the issue of prosecuting companies for providing links to copyright infringing materials while not actually hosting the offending material.

I believe you misunderstand recent copyright laws
in the USA: yes, an ISP can be prosecuted for hosting
a link to copyright infringing materials. However,
such an ISP ONLY becomes legally liable if and when
they have been formally notified of such a violation
AND they also refuse to remove it after being duly
served with that notification. See in particular
the "take down" procedures formalized in the
Digital Millennium Copyright Act, for starters.

I am disappointed that Google did not take the
matter into a court of competent jurisdiction
BEFORE surrendering the information requested
by Indian authorities. They certainly have
plenty of money in the bank, so saving money
sounds to me like a lame excuse.

See discussion of opinion by Judge Lewis A. Kaplan here:

http://www.supremelaw.org/copyrite/caselaw/
http://www.supremelaw.org/copyrite/caselaw/decss.o...
http://www.supremelaw.org/copyrite/aol.com/supplem...
http://www.supremelaw.org/copyrite/cmu.edu/supplem...

Sincerely yours,
/s/ Paul Andrew Mitchell, Inventor and
Webmaster, Supreme Law Library
http://www.supremelaw.org/

All Rights Reserved without Prejudice


By batatadoida on 5/20/2008 9:06:46 AM , Rating: 2
Well, it seems that the best way to go around these things is using smaller service providers that do not work on repressive regime's markets...

Or use the Open Society Institute secure data storage and email service for dissenters around the world...




Hmmm, let's see...
By TechIsGr8 on 5/20/2008 12:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
big multi-national corporation partnering with government to take down the little guy...fascism at work? How soon before google can get away with that here in America? Oh, wait, AT&T already got away with that here...




What's so shocking?
By hashish2020 on 5/21/2008 3:30:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yea the standards are more restricted, but in the US we have laws against threatening the life of a president, and in Canada and Europe, hate speech legislation.

It's more a matter of the photo being pornography using religiously sacred AND political...pron is a grey grey area in India too




whiners
By meepstone on 5/20/2008 11:28:09 AM , Rating: 1
While everyone cracks on Google. You have to understand they are a business and will do whats good for themselves. If you were in their shoes im sure you would of done same thing. So stop the yapping over nonsense.




Do these Internet companies really not get it?
By MrBlastman on 5/20/08, Rating: -1
By theapparition on 5/20/2008 9:35:40 AM , Rating: 4
You have to respect the local laws of the country that your doing business with.

If you don't agree with the nations policies (cough...China...cough), then your moral principals should force you not to do business there at all. You just can't pick and choose which laws you'd like to support. If you choose to do business in India, you've also accepted the responsibility to follow their laws.


By DASQ on 5/20/2008 11:42:23 AM , Rating: 2
Law and religion should not be so tightly knit in this day and age.


RE: Do these Internet companies really not get it?
By dever on 5/20/2008 12:20:33 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think that Google refusing to do business in India would be helpful to it's populace. It's possible that if businesses were to take moral stands against doing business in a country, the lack of access to these business resources might only further empower the corrupt politicians they are meant to discourage.

I think in the case of Google this is clearly true. If Google and similar external services had no presence in India, how would that make the citizens more capable to achieve more political freedoms?


By JediJeb on 5/20/2008 3:09:36 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree with google's idea of " we believe in freedom of speech, but when it keeps us from doing business we don't mind giving it up".

Also the arguement of "having a presence there, but bowing to the wills of the government even when is conflicts with our belief in freedom of speech because it my help the people there in some way" is also wrong. Someone once said " It is not right to do wrong to get a chance to do right" . By handing this guy over, google in essence said that they believe in free speech unless it cost them money.