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Print 100 comment(s) - last by TakinYourPoint.. on Dec 30 at 8:56 PM

Meanwhile European sales of iPhones are languishing.

When it comes to its war with Samsung Electronic Comp., Ltd. (KS:005930), Apple, Inc. (AAPL) has lost its preliminary injunction request in the U.S., lost its preliminary injunction request in Australia, lost in France, and scored a hollow victory in the Netherlands that required only minor modification on Samsung's part.  In short, late Apple CEO Steve Jobs' bid to spend all of his company's substantial fortune to "destroy" Android has stalled.

I. Germany Becomes Latest to Reject Apple's Legal Crusade

Now the situation for Apple has gone from bad to worse.  A German court has at last sided with Samsung.  After ruling that the initial Galaxy Tab 10.1 infringed on Apple's patented design by being too "minimalist", Samsung went and repackaged its device to look even less like Apple's iPad tablet.  An irate Apple begged German authorities to ban the new design, arguing that it should have exclusive rights to make modern tablets in Germany.

The presiding German judge flatly rejected Apple's request.  Judge Johanna Brueckner-Hofmann ruled the new Galaxy Tab 10.1N did not appear to be in infringement and thus Apple would not obtain its requested preliminary injunction.  She states, "According to the court's assessment, the defendant has moved away sufficiently from the legally protected design."

The German judge informed Apple's lawyers that their company would just have to compete against Samsung on the market.

A final ruling on whether the new devices infringes of any of Apple's design or technology patents is coming on Feb. 9, but things aren't looking good for Apple in the one region where it still had some shred of a victory over Samsung.

Samsung, who, along with Apple, is under investigation by the European Union for patent abuse, expanding its countersuit claims against Apple in German court earlier this week.

II. Apple Struggles to Compete With Android in Weakening European Economy

Meanwhile, the lagging global economy is beginning to show signs of hurting Apple's sales.  As in the past, Apple's efforts to position its products as luxury devices has began to backfire, thanks to recent price drops on high-end Android smartphones from companies like Samsung.

Research firm Kantar Worldpanel ComTech broke down sales by region in a new report. Dominic Sunnebo, global consumer insight director, says that the iPhone 4S bumped sales from 25 percent to 36 percent in the U.S. and from 21 percent to 31 percent in Britain, in a comparison of last year versus this year for the 12-week period ending on the last day of November.

But in mainland Europe, the picture was quite different, with the iPhone's stake dropping from 29 to 20 percent in France, from 27 percent to 22 percent in Germany, and by similar substantial margins in Italy and Spain.

Apple snobs
To its dismay Apple is finding that European users are less willing amid a recessionary atmosphere to pay their "Apple tax" to feel cool and superior. [Image Source: Samsung]

European GDP growth for Q3 2011 stalled to an anemic 0.2 percent, and is expect to kick back into reverse, slipping back into recession for Q4 2011 and Q1 2012.

So who’s the bigger winner in this weak market?  You guessed it -- Samsung and Android.  Comments Mr. Sunnebo to Reuters, "In Germany, Android achieved a dominant 61 percent share of smartphone sales in the latest 12 weeks, with the Samsung Galaxy S II the top selling handset."

Sources: Reuters [1], [2]





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TM
By sprockkets on 12/22/2011 3:49:33 PM , Rating: 4
_________________________Apple is Doomed TM______________________




RE: TM
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 3:59:59 PM , Rating: 4
But according to you know who, next quarter results will BLOW YOU AWAY!


RE: TM
By sigmatau on 12/22/2011 4:27:21 PM , Rating: 2
And after that one quarter they will drop off the cliff.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/22/2011 7:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
You're right Tony. Apple was ALWAYS a financial Juggernaut.

/sarcasm



RE: TM
By Smartless on 12/22/2011 4:10:38 PM , Rating: 5
_________________WINMO 7 is Doomed_____________

Sorry your Trademark was overly vague and minimalistic.


RE: TM
By jimbojimbo on 12/22/2011 8:37:57 PM , Rating: 3
You're right Windows Mobile 7 is dead. It never even lived actually. Windows Phone 7 though will be kicking ass soon.. at least that's the hope.


RE: TM
By nocturne_81 on 12/24/2011 7:51:56 AM , Rating: 2
Last time I saw the charts, WinMobile 2k3se still has a higher market share than WP7... xD

I actually still have an Axim x5... considering it's age, quite an awesome device. I can use it however I want. I can install whatever I want.. no rooting, jailbreaking, etc.. I even had turn-by-turn gps, apps, mobile browsing -- all available on a windows device half a decade before Apple even thought about creating a phone.

At the rls of the iPhone, there should have been a movement to keep them from referring to it as a smartphone... The original concept of a smartphone was that it had an open OS, allowing a user to do what they wanted with their device without limitation from their carrier..

Even Android devices... as open as they are, they still allow the carriers to wreak whatever havoc they want on us consumers..

WinMobile is pretty much dead, and Symbian has been irrelevant for years. As such, I can't think of any 'smartphones' on the market at the moment. Perhaps iCrap and Androids should just be called 'dumbphones'..


RE: TM
By macdevdude on 12/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By MrTeal on 12/22/2011 4:47:47 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
While Mick's article is garbage as usual, even he admits that Apple is outselling all the crapdroids in Britain and the U.S. -- the biggest markets, and Android is only winning in smaller backwater markets like Germany and France. You can't expect to win over all customers in small, backwards uninformed nations, you know?


Hey, you're back. Yay.

Apple's marketshare rose from 11 points to 36% in the US, and 10 points to 31% in Britain with the release of the 4S. I'm not sure how you figure that means that Apple is outselling Android in those markets, when it's pretty clear Android is still in the lead.

quote:
Google had market shares of between 46 and 61 percent in all markets. Cellphone makers like Samsung Electronics, Sony Ericsson, LG Ericsson and Motorola Mobility all use its Android platform in their phones. "In Germany, Android achieved a dominant 61 percent share of smartphone sales in the latest 12 weeks, with the Samsung Galaxy S II the top selling handset," Sunnebo said.


RE: TM
By macdevdude on 12/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By brybir on 12/22/2011 5:04:24 PM , Rating: 5
Basic math still puts out garbage numbers when you use garbage inputs like your guesses above regarding profit per device sold etc.

Further, your initial statement was that Apple outsells Android in the markets you mentioned. That statement was shown to be false. So you then switch instead to discussing profit per phone as a backup?

Its not much of a conversation when you just kinda makeup whatever you want and then change the subject when you don't like what people say.


RE: TM
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 6:05:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That statement was shown to be false. So you then switch instead to discussing
Common theme around here.


RE: TM
By Rukkian on 12/22/2011 5:05:18 PM , Rating: 3
Somebody seems to be justifying their sheeple status.


RE: TM
By cpeter38 on 12/24/2011 10:37:17 AM , Rating: 2
Hey, he's a barista. Don't cramp his style!


RE: TM
By seamonkey79 on 12/22/2011 5:12:00 PM , Rating: 2
So... Since Apple is paying less in licensing fees per device, in theory, the iPhone should cost less than an Android device.

Seems like one of the device purchasers is getting a shaft somewhere... I'm paying less for a device that costs more to make, you're paying more for a device that costs less to make.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By Gio6518 on 12/22/2011 8:48:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How many Android phones does do the Crapdroid makers have to sell to equal the profit of one iPhone? Esp. when M$FT is taking its $15 or whateva cut?? My guess is like 10 or 20. So Apple is probably making like 4 or 5 times as much profit.


I never understand this type of statement, crApple has to buy it cpu from Samsung, and to which Samsung makes a profit. Memory from either Samsung or Toshiba, to which these companies make profit, etc. etc. and somehow you belive that a company let's say Samsung doesn't make a profit to which they manufacturer most of their components is ludicrous. Apple relies on supply chains which produce Android products, and many of these devices cost as much for a consumer to purchase in some cases even more...


RE: TM
By spread on 12/23/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By Helbore on 12/23/2011 9:29:50 AM , Rating: 1
You realise Apple pay licensing to Microsoft, too, right? That Exchange Activesync doesn't come free, y'know!


RE: TM
By tamalero on 12/26/2011 5:39:26 AM , Rating: 2
isn't china the biggest market now anyway?
I also remember apple cant even sell there under the apple "iphone and ipad" brands


RE: TM
By petrosy on 12/22/2011 5:38:39 PM , Rating: 5
You are a complete phuktard... just because France and Germany don't speak English. That does not make then backwater markets. Do you even know what the size of Germany's economy is? You also forgot to include that backwater market called Asia.

Apple can't stop IP theft as they the one that started it...infact they they should quit making inferior products and shift their core businiess into the Legal space as that is where they truly shine.... much to my dissappointment and frustration.


RE: TM
By Dradien on 12/22/2011 5:45:55 PM , Rating: 4
Germany and France, backwater and uninformed markets?

You got some balls dude, I'll give you that. That and ignorance.


RE: TM
By SoCalBoomer on 12/22/2011 5:56:25 PM , Rating: 5
Strange - that's not how I read it. And not how reality is. Let's see - NPD shows Android at 53% of US market while iOS is at 29%. Wow, a win for Apple! (http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/14/shocker-android...

When you look at the world through rose-tinted glasses, everything looks rosy. Take them off for a real perspective.

BTW - you did realize that Germany is the most stable and largest European (including UK) economy right now, yes? Oh wait, to you it's a backwater. . . GDP of 2.5 Bil Euro for Germany compared to 1.7 Bil for UK. Oh, and France? 2.0 Bil Euro.

Hmmmm. . . .


RE: TM
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 6:13:19 PM , Rating: 2
Let's see how Tony WashedUp spins this. This will be quite interesting.


RE: TM
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 6:13:59 PM , Rating: 2
Rated down for facts, amazing.


RE: TM
By hiscross on 12/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 6:16:38 PM , Rating: 2
The brainless Apple Phanbois are just...useless


RE: TM
By MechanicalTechie on 12/22/2011 6:48:22 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously wrong with you?? Why defend a company that is so obliviously arse-raping the industry? I mean have a little vision will you.. do you want to live in a world where one company has the monopoly on mobile computing, because they have patent a 'minimalist' design? Competition is good for everyone.

If you are truely blind to what Apple is doing then I pity you!


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By MechanicalTechie on 12/22/2011 7:52:44 PM , Rating: 3
oh dear.. so anyone that questions Apple is called a hater? Plus I'm asking for a little forward thinking.. Look down the line and think...

Do object that everything has to be authorsited by Apple first, how about having to jailbreak your phone even thou you paid for it? do you object that if you dont agree to Apples T&C you can't use iTunes or the Appstore, do you object that Apple is using its postion in the market to prevent competition with obliviously bullshit lawsuits and do object to patent squatting.

I dont care if its Apple, Mircosuck, or Android .. can you see what i'm getting at?

Hardware stats and all the rest of the bollocks will always be changing so thats not the point.

And before you try and flick me off as a Android user.. i am not.. i'm just a regular developer thats concerned with the direction of my industry.


RE: TM
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 7:59:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Look down the line and think
Unfortunately, Apple thinks for their users, they can't think for themselves.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/22/2011 8:08:16 PM , Rating: 3
Pretty sure that other companies like Samsung, who actually spent billions developing the mobile CPU used in the iPhone, and touch screen panel technology, deserves the R&D nod here. Not sure exactly what Apple "developed" beyond iOS, but I'll allow you your illusions. Apple didn't develop multi-touch screens and virtual keyboards, or the new faster mobile hardware. The industry was already moving in that direction, SOMEONE was going to be first, it just happened to be Apple. To instil some diving omnipotent higher-power faith in Apple because of it is truly the work of a brainwashed fanboi.

The iPhone and iPad are made by about 30 different Asian and a few Western firms. Not ONE of them Apple. Just food for thought.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/11, Rating: -1
RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 5:09:28 PM , Rating: 2
Only in a place where posts stating simple, unbiased facts like Android having slower hardware and weaker developer support does it get a downvote.

The Fandroid circlejerk here is hilarious , no facts or logical arguments, just cry cry cry. >:)


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/11, Rating: 0
RE: TM
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/23/2011 8:08:59 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
even though they switched from a Blackberry copy to an iPhone copy
IT'S NOT A COPY, you really need to drop that shit.


RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/23/2011 1:49:21 PM , Rating: 1
I'm sorry but are you talking to me? I didn't think I left much room for a rebuttal to your fantasy-land ramblings. I'm sure there is some Apple forum where people will agree with you that everything else is "inferior", but I really have better things to do.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 5:11:16 PM , Rating: 2
You're the one that responded to me first, I was merely correcting your one-dimensional thinking and trying to open up your limited mind.


RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/23/2011 5:46:02 PM , Rating: 1
OH is that what you thought you were doing? Ha! It's not just a river in Egypt...


RE: TM
By tamalero on 12/26/2011 5:45:43 AM , Rating: 2
just wondering..

how is he one dimensional?
I would say pot meet kettle but I dont see his "one dimensional" comment.
while you in the other hand.. you seem yo be drowned in the "apple or die" type agenda.


RE: TM
By retrospooty on 12/23/2011 2:24:54 PM , Rating: 2
"even though they switched from a Blackberry copy to an iPhone copy, they still make an inferior product in comparison."

But its OK to you that Apple totally copied Palm? bah.

Anyhow, I wouldnt go around saying Apple is superior, espescially against Samsung's latest phone.

4.65 inch screen
1280x720 res
4G
Faster CPU
Android 4 (better UI than Apple)
Near Field Comm.
And all that at the same .37 inch thick

I fail to see any way the iPhone is better than that. Siri? Meh, its just an app they bought.


RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/23/2011 3:13:58 PM , Rating: 1
Oh he'll just counter with vague claims about the "superior developer environment" or whatever. Best just to not engage him.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 5:03:37 PM , Rating: 2
What's vague about it? A stable development platform with a stable platform of hardware and software that is kept up to date. One where things like this don't happen: http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/23/2657132/samsung...

I don't know a single developer who develops for multiple mobile platforms that doesn't hate developing for Android.


RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/23/2011 5:40:21 PM , Rating: 2
Android is stable enough, it's up to date enough, and it has PLENTY of developer support and more apps than ANY phone can hold at one time. Maybe it's not the best, fine, but it's far from "rubbish" as you keep insisting.

Enough with this ridiculousness. The average consumer has NO idea of these metrics and developer opinions that you seem to think are absolute deal-breakers. They're just not.

Your link is hilariously ironic because how many times has Apple pulled a stunt like that?? Please!! Why can't iPhone 3 and 4 users have Siri? So because two last gen products won't get ICS upgrades, Android as a whole is "garbage"? LOL please! Show me where Apple has ALWAYS supported every future software version and feature in legacy products. Oh that's right, they don't! At least Google has a technical reason for this and isn't blatantly pushing the newer phone like Apple with Siri.

Nice job pulling another classic Tony move, by the way, and linking a known and obviously biased pro-Apple Android bashing site. So much so that the Verge has been accused of being supported by Apple and

quote:
I don't know a single developer who develops for multiple mobile platforms that doesn't hate developing for Android.


Myopic and unfounded, so irrelevant. Hey, I don't know a single developer that likes Apple! Yay, I can play that game too. I also know a guy who hates toast, so look out world, you're wrong!


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 6:59:46 PM , Rating: 2
Right, there are no good reasons why major developers avoid Android like the plague, why every other big app announcement has "when's the Android version coming out?" followed by either silence or outright rejection (ie - John Carmack).

Even Microsoft has been developing for iOS since day one. Just in the last few weeks their XBL and Skydrive apps were released, and Office for iPad is imminent. Where's the Android version? Hmm.....


RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/23/2011 8:02:42 PM , Rating: 2
Okay this is a childish game and I'm tired of it. Just because there isn't 100% parody between every competitors app list means nothing. You're basically saying "Well Android sucks because (some random app) isn't on it, so there!". By your logic OS X sucks because I can't run all my Windows apps without Bootcamp. It's childish and ignorant, grow up.

Also next time you flail around trying to make a point, don't resort to lying. Xbox Live is most certainly on Android. Office for iPad is happening because of the iPad's sales, not because Android is "garbage". Google's marketing department might be garbage, but that's another issue.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 11:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
Cool story bro


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/24/2011 12:31:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Office for iPad is happening because of the iPad's sales, not because Android is "garbage".


By that logic, MS should have all of their other applications like OneNote on Android given that it has such a large chunk of the smartphone market. After all, most of Microsoft's apps are for the iPhone, not the iPad.

Fact of the matter is that there is little consistency among Android devices and which handset is running which version of the OS. Carriers have WAY too much control over the platform and it is screwing developers and customers over.

It screws customers out of applications and it forces many to buy new hardware if they want an OS upgrade. It is the root of many of Android's problems, I can't see how this can be denied. If Google had as much control as Microsoft and Apple then things would be 1000x better for everyone.

quote:
Also next time you flail around trying to make a point, don't resort to lying. Xbox Live is most certainly on Android.


Third party apps like 360 Live, which I also have on iOS (and deleted after getting the MS app), aren't the official app from Microsoft, that is not on Android. Google "My XBox Live" for iTunes, the iPad version in particule is awesome.

The point is that MS has largely avoided Android development outside of things like a Bing, Halo, and MSN app, and that point still stands. Microsoft has had iOS apps since 2008 and they're awesome! Photosynth is one of my favorite apps, so good.

I count 17 iPhone apps and 9 iPad apps by Microsoft in the App Store, quite a lot more than they've done for Android, and it's for similar reasons why there are still major holdouts.

quote:
Just because there isn't 100% parody between every competitors app list means nothing. You're basically saying "Well Android sucks because (some random app) isn't on it, so there!". By your logic OS X sucks because I can't run all my Windows apps without Bootcamp. It's childish and ignorant, grow up.


Nope, it's one reason of many why I have problems with Android. Windows Phone 7 has even fewer apps but I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to recommend it.

PS - It's spelled "parity", not "parody"


RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/24/2011 10:54:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
By that logic, MS should have all of their other applications like OneNote on Android given that it has such a large chunk of the smartphone market.


No that's not "logic" at all. Microsoft want's you to buy a Windows phone for using OneNote. Not Andriod. And give me a break! Do you know how many planner and note taking apps are on Android? How is it game breaking to the end user if they can't use "OneNOte" specifically?

quote:
Fact of the matter is that there is little consistency among Android devices and which handset is running which version of the OS. Carriers have WAY too much control over the platform and it is screwing developers and customers over.


I could make an argument how Apple "screws over" it's customers too, at which point you would bring up their sales numbers and market share. So I'll kindly do the same. Look at the numbers. "Screwed" people? That sure is a lot of willingly screwed people you're talking about.

Sure you aren't just projecting your bias and personal tastes on an entire market? Yup, you are.

quote:
The point is that MS has largely avoided Android development outside of things like a Bing, Halo, and MSN app, and that point still stands.


And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that Android directly competes with Microsoft's own line of phones?

What is your argument anyway? That Android's development API is such "crap", that Microsoft itself won't even touch it? The largest and most staffed software firm on the planet. Right Takin..good one!

quote:
Nope, it's one reason of many why I have problems with Android.


Well I'm sure there's tons of people losing sleep tonight knowing that.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/28/2011 1:29:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No that's not "logic" at all. Microsoft want's you to buy a Windows phone for using OneNote. Not Andriod.


Except that OneNote has been on iOS forever. Did you know this and are just willfully ignoring it, or are you completely missing the point? If MS wanted you to buy a Windows Phone 7 for OneNote, they wouldn't have released it on iOS first, and they certainly wouldn't have released SkyDrive or making Office for it.

quote:
And give me a break! Do you know how many planner and note taking apps are on Android? How is it game breaking to the end user if they can't use "OneNOte" specifically?


This is again about how most major developers skip Android while supporting iOS. I'm using Microsoft, one of the best software companies in the world, as an example.

quote:
I could make an argument how Apple "screws over" it's customers too, at which point you would bring up their sales numbers and market share. So I'll kindly do the same. Look at the numbers. "Screwed" people? That sure is a lot of willingly screwed people you're talking about.


Hardware manufacturers and carriers not supporting Android phones for OS updates sounds like screwing customers over to me, and it certainly makes life harder for developers.

quote:
And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that Android directly competes with Microsoft's own line of phones?


And the iPhone and iPad doesn't compete with WP7? What are you on?

quote:
What is your argument anyway? That Android's development API is such "crap", that Microsoft itself won't even touch it? The largest and most staffed software firm on the planet. Right Takin..good one!


That can absolutely be inferred, especially since Microsoft has continued to make so many apps for iOS. There's also hardware and OS fragmentation, those are other legit reasons why Microsoft and numerous other major developers have stayed away. id Software and other large developers certainly have the resources to make Android games happen, but given the ecosystem and the preponderance of free Android apps over paid ones, it clearly isn't worth it to them.


RE: TM
By retrospooty on 12/24/2011 10:51:31 PM , Rating: 2
" every other big app announcement has "when's the Android version coming out?" followed by either silence or outright rejection (ie - John Carmack)"

wow... Its as if every single post you make is wrong. too bad that android is outselling iphone by almost 3 to 1, and most apps are developed at the same time... Of course moving forward that will change as more and more androids sell, iphone development will be an afterthought. We all know what you are afraid of... Android is an unstoppable juggernaut like windows and you know iPhones OS will become a niche market like Mac. Good luck with your imaginary "superiority" =)


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/28/2011 1:35:26 AM , Rating: 2
An increase in Android sales hasn't resulted in a decrease in iOS sales, everything is selling very well.

Fact of the matter is that iOS development is still well beyond Android. Developer support is there for iOS that Android only dreams of. There's the example of MS Office that I gave, and one of the best PC games this year, Frozen Synapse, is coming to iPad with no plans for an Android port. And it's the same story on the forums as there are with most big name apps; people asking why there's no Android version coming out.

iOS going away is wishful thinking on your part. It would certianly be bad if Android was the only game in town. One vastly superior mobile platform, Windows Phone 7, is already being crushed by Android. What a tragedy it would be if iOS went away as well.

Fortunately I don't think there's room for an inferior, mediocre OS, and that iOS will keep doing very well. People with standards know better. If the world was fair then WP7 would take a big chunk of the smartphone market as well.


RE: TM
By retrospooty on 12/28/2011 7:13:22 AM , Rating: 2
"iOS going away is wishful thinking on your part."

NOt at all. I dont think that, I dont want that. I for one am glad for IOS. Apple advanced the smartphone world with it and we all owe them a big pat on the back. It's continued existence is welcome to me, it keeps the competition on its toes.

My point is dont rule Android out. It is outselling Apple and will continue to do so, and your claims of "superiority" are just ridiculous. How easy is it to support a few models? Try writing an OS and Software that is open to any maker and any spec level. Same deal with Mac v Win. Apple takes the easy route. Imagine if Mac had to support 10's of thousands of peripherals, from 1000's of manufacturers. Same deal with Android, and that is why it is "superior" to use your term.


RE: TM
By tamalero on 12/26/2011 5:48:43 AM , Rating: 2
John Carmack as always changed his wording when its convenient for him and his wallet.
Back then he said Pcs were the great thing, and he would never release stuff for consoles..

he later changed that (probably paid by playstation or xbox crew) and said that consoles were the great thing..
then later when Apple got popular.. suddenly he said that the iphone is the great thing ever!.

to resume.. WALLET COUNTS for Mr. Carmack.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 7:09:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So because two last gen products won't get ICS upgrades, Android as a whole is "garbage"?


An iPhone bought in 2009 will get iOS 5, guaranteed.

It is garbage how Android devices that are only a year old don't get OS updates, yes, but it's also sad. Cell carriers have higher sales quotas for Android devices because they know they can more easily force upgrades since hardware manufacturers won't support the devices, and this is because it makes them all more money.

Limiting Siri to the iPhone 4S is lame, but not nearly as bad as what cell carriers and hardware manufacturers are doing with Android to milk their customers. It isn't withholding a single feature, it withholding is an entire OS. At least Samsung can't pull that BS with Windows Phone 7 since Microsoft enforces upgrades with WP7 devices.


RE: TM
By Reclaimer77 on 12/23/2011 7:51:35 PM , Rating: 2
It's a special case. To say that "all" Android devices don't get OS updates is a misrepresentation of the facts.

I think you know ICS isn't just another "version" of Android. It's a massive redesign and a step forward. You make it seem like there's malice on Google's part here, when in fact it's a technical limitation because of ICS requirements. This is NOT business as usual or the way things happen usually.

quote:
Limiting Siri to the iPhone 4S is lame


LOL see what we're talking about? You dismiss Apple's blatant gouging and customer malice as "lame", but crucify Android and call it "garbage" because TWO old devices won't be compatible with ICS??? Could you possible be more biased!

Stop wasting my time until you can get some perspective.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/24/2011 12:00:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
LOL see what we're talking about? You dismiss Apple's blatant gouging and customer malice as "lame", but crucify Android and call it "garbage" because TWO old devices won't be compatible with ICS???


There isn't enough time in the day to go over the scores of Android phones that didn't get OS upgrades, even after only being on the market for six months.

You're really going to argue this point? Even the biggest non-deluded Android supporters can't deny this. And there are many non-fanboy Android users who at least have a balanced and realistic perspective on this. You clearly don't.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 5:17:16 PM , Rating: 2
Its SoC isn't faster than the A5, and it's a Samsung device so count on them dropping support so that you have to buy new hardware from them if you want the latest OS in a year: http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/23/2657132/samsung...

It speaks volumes that so many people here give Samsung a pass on this simply because they see them as the enemy of Apple, especially when Apple actually goes out of their way to support old devices.

Wake up nerds, this is why cell carriers have Android sales quotas that exceed iOS or WP7 in their stores: they force hardware upgrades because nothing outside of the Google Experience devices have long term OS support. Disgusting.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 7:02:58 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I partly take back what I said, the Nexus One which should be capable of running ICS didn't get it. Hell, the HTC Desire which is basically a Nexus One only got an optional, hobbled official update to Gingerbread that you can only upgrade to manually, with a bunch of caveats.

Yup, keep on sucking up those hardware upgrades if you want the latest OS, even if the hardware is capable enough to run it.


RE: TM
By retrospooty on 12/24/2011 7:34:14 AM , Rating: 2
MMM.... NOt according to Anandtech's new smartphone benches, but whatever. CPU or not, its still a way better phone. You ignored all the other points where this phone is superior to the iPhone 4s.

4.65 inch screen
1280x720 res
4G
Android 4 (better UI than Apple)
Near Field Comm.
And all that at the same .37 inch thick

You ignored all that and the point that Apple copied Palm/Handspring far more than any other company has copied Apple making it very clear... you are here strictly to defend every action they take and every product they make. It's one thing to prefer a particular product, and I understand why some people like MAC's and iPhones, but its another thing to be a complete "fanboy" and ignore any postitive points about a competing product, and ignore any negative points about Apple.

You arent here to debate, or gather info, you are here on an agenda.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/28/2011 2:01:33 AM , Rating: 2
My "agenda" is pretty broad. Android has been a junky, second-rate OS so far, that's all. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. You'll be harder pressed to find a bigger Windows Phone 7 cheerleader. I think it is garbage that it isn't selling better considering how good it is, and especially how much more solid it is than Android. I know this makes things hard for you since you want to paint me as an Apple fanboy, so keep doing what you're doing.


RE: TM
By retrospooty on 12/28/2011 7:16:53 AM , Rating: 2
"you want to paint me as an Apple fanboy"

Well, reading your posts, you do tend to over emphasize positive points about Apple, and ignore any positive points about a competing product. Your claim of it being "superior" are not only wrong, but ignorant.


RE: TM
By TakinYourPoints on 12/30/2011 8:56:14 PM , Rating: 2
Nope, I like PCs (built my own for 15 years), I like Macs, I like iOS, and I like WP7. I save my dislike for Android. I just don't like junky products, it's pretty simple.


RE: TM
By retrospooty on 12/22/2011 9:08:25 PM , Rating: 2
"If Apple can't stop the IP theft, it doesn't matter it will still outsell its competitors inferior junk."

I am getting tired of this assertion. Lets get something straight here. If you want to say "Apple is being copied", then take it back to the root. Apple "copied" the whole mobile phone idea, as well as putting and OS and apps on a phone from Palm/Handspring. By your own logic, Apple should not be allowed to make any smartphones. All Apple did was advance the UI, in a great way. We all thank them for that, but lets get past this ridiculous notion that they invented all things worth inventing.

Apple copied Palm/Handspring far FAR FAR more than any other company has copied Apple, so sit down and shut up.


RE: TM
By Devilboy1313 on 12/23/2011 6:10:20 AM , Rating: 1
"If Apple can't stop the IP theft".

Now this is a little harsh. I realize that Apple really hasn't ever come up with an original idea, but I don't think they need to stop stealing IP. I mean in the last 40+ years almost everything has been though of before. So you can hardly expect Apple to come up with original ideas.

Please let Apple keep "improving upon" existing IP that others thought of and/or created an actual working product 1st. They make pretty products that can do almost anything their competitors can do, well for the most part ... usually .... once they OK it with marketing ... well you know the new product will be out soon and that will be fixed so maybe you should just wait and buy the new one instead.

Apple needs to "improve upon" products and ideas that were thought of by others 1st (and in some cases decades before). It's all those nasty copycats who want to "improve upon" ... I mean steal Apple's products that should suffer.


RE: TM
By spread on 12/23/2011 4:52:49 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
when Apple posts its next big profit


That's great but:

1. You're not a member of Apple.
2. You will never benefit from Apple posting a profit.

You're like one of those rabid football fans that screams "OUR TEAM! OUR TEAM IS WINNING!" No, it's not your team. It's their team and you're on the outside looking in. You're not part of the game. Your favourite player doesn't even know you exist, you're just a face in a sea of faces in the stands that pays his salary. You're nobody.


RE: TM
By CubicleDilbert on 12/27/2011 3:05:37 AM , Rating: 1
Buddy, you should seriously recalibrate your financial and geographic skills.
Germany is anything but backwater market. Go figure, but about 110 millions of people in Europe speak German.

And hey, these days the Germans are the only one left with a lotof full functional industries and pockets full of money. Compared to the rest of Europe.

In my opinion, it is time for this German designer Mr. Dieter Rams to start suing Apple all over the places for blatantly stealing a vast number of indutrial designs which he invented for his parent company BRAUN in the 60-70ies.

Almost every Apple device is a copycat of Dieter Rams' ideas, be it iPhone, iPod, Macintosh... you name it.

Apple steals ideas left and right, secretly gets a patent on it and then sues everyone for using it. They are master of brainwashing people that Apple is the master inventor of all time.


By MechanicalTechie on 12/22/2011 7:16:52 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Personally my main concern is not that anyone loses but that Apple thrives, and it clearly is :)


So tell us something we don’t know... Seriously why do you still bother? Your views are corrupt and totally bias... you’re a disgrace and actually rather pathetic to be so devoted to a company.

You ‘claim’ you have no afflation to Apple... either you’re lying or got nothing better to do with your time other than dribble your Fanboy crap.. . so which is it?


By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 8:11:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But all the insults and name calling do (and I confess I sometimes have felt provoked to do a bit of that)


You do name call, so that is incorrect.

quote:
I like debate, I like opposing views


No, you don't, you like trying to push your views on others, even when it's incorrect and you are given proof to refute your views.

quote:
I hope they prosper and I am happy to devote a tiny fraction of my ample leisure time to defending them in public discourse
You spend EVERYDAY of your life on here doing it, not a TINY fraction of your ample leisure time .


By testerguy on 12/23/2011 4:00:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You spend EVERYDAY of your life on here doing it, not a TINY fraction of your ample leisure time .


Quiz time:

Who has posted the most on this article?

Hint: Cheesew


By MechanicalTechie on 12/22/2011 8:43:17 PM , Rating: 2
OK i'll give it a try... first off.. most of us dont have the patience to read your stories and because of your unbashful bias to Apple.. can you really blame people for passing you off as another iTool, plus that fact that you copy and paste your comments from site to site doesnt do much for your credibility.

Now.. yes you are older than me.. but not by much thou...i wrote my first program at the age of 6 on the C64, was the one youngest bbs sys op in my country at the age of 14 and i for one miss the days of dos.

I can see your approach to what is good it different to mine and most people at this site. You care about empowerment, how it looks and how popular it is. That means little if anything to me.

What i dont like about Apple is how it trys to take control of everything, i work in development and most of my colleagues that we're stupid enough to get an iPhone have jailed broken it.

Lets say Microsuck was firing law suit after law suit for crappy and mostly BS claims.. with the aim to block the competition, would you keep respecting them? Or if your bought a car and then the manufacturer told you that you can only drive it on a tueday afternoon between the hours of 2-6pm... you bought, you should have the right to do anythin you want with it.

You also keep going back to how popular it is.. ever heard of Hilter? Stalin? they were very popular too.. the general public is stupid.. sheep will follow other sheep... but does that mean they are doing the right thing? or the popular thing?

Maybe your the kind of person that gets impressed very quicky.. i dunno.. i for one don't care what is cool or popular, i'm too old for that crap... at the end of the day is just a company so it staggering that you always through yourself in front in their defence... and this is why your lashed with insults.. its quite oblivious really


By nocturne_81 on 12/24/2011 7:38:18 AM , Rating: 2
Well, I respect Tony for his conviction and steadfastness... though, it doesn't make him any less crazy.. x]

Though, he's quite a character... I know plenty of fanboys from any end of the spectrum, but in my experience anybody that classifies as a 'fanboy' is somebody which insists on supporting their opinion despite of common sense or public conventions.. basically, somebody that has an opinion, but nothing to support it besides their own sentiments.

But Tony.. he's obviously a bit long in tooth, and though his memory seems to be quite selective during the nineties, it can't be denied that he was at least there. The confusing part though, is that he seems to have a superior command of the english language compared to any Apple fan-blog I've encountered; as well as a reasonably wider acceptance competing opinions compared to other fanboys. Hell, sometimes he seems outright reasonable...

I never said the word 'plant', but I'd never negate it's consideration in regard to Tony.. It's either that, or there just happens to be one 50 yr old Apple fanboy that's completely pro-trust, loves products targeted at pre-teens, and loves to spend countless hours arguing purely about Apple products on this site (while not showing up in any other conversations in other articles not relating to Apple products).

Or, he could just be some sad balding old fart sitting alone in a basement somewhere, trying to find some controversial stance in order to get a bit of attention on a random tech site to make his life seem that much more important. Hell, he only responded to this article a few times, compared to him having been mentioned twice before even posting a single comment. If we keep making fun of the poor deluded guy, he'll only keep at it..


By Cheesew1z69 on 12/24/2011 11:23:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Or, he could just be some sad balding old fart sitting alone in a basement somewhere, trying to find some controversial stance in order to get a bit of attention on a random tech site to make his life seem that much more important.
This...


By spread on 12/23/2011 1:35:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple rescued me from the hell of CP/M, MS-DOS and Windows in that order.


No, it's just a product.

quote:
to when I retired in 2009


I see. So you're a crazy old man it seems. You salivate at the mouth when someone mentions Apple. You lick your lips and ready yourself to preach like it has importance.

quote:
My iPad and and iPhone continue to delight me.


Because you're simple and have simple tastes. This is a technology site where all the gear heads meet up to talk.

quote:
So I am neither ignorant or affiliated with Apple but I am biased in their favour because they are simply better than anyone else, they have done more for me than any other technology company, I hope they prosper and I am happy to devote a tiny fraction of my ample leisure time to defending them in public discourse.


I can say the same about Microsoft. Thanks to their well designed products I have been able to do work. I've never had an issue that couldn't be resolved because I'm not an idiot and I want to know my computer. I don't need an Apple Genius to help me change my wallpaper.

quote:
I like debate, I like opposing views.


You filthy liar. Your history has shown otherwise. Crazy old man can't even remember what he says and does.

quote:
The ball is in your court - prove to me that you have a mind, write something thoughtful, literate and coherent in response. I dare you.


Can't have a well thought out discussion because you're not a reasonable individual. It will always come down to name calling and you deserve it. Why? Because you're not reasonable and rational.


By Cheesew1z69 on 12/23/2011 8:15:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple customer is better paid, older, and more intelligent than their Android equivalent
Again with this? 4 times in 2 threads. Doesn't make it anymore true, just like saying Samsung copied Apple, to continue to say these things does not make it so.


By spread on 12/23/2011 4:46:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Saying it's 'just a product' has nothing to do with whether or not the original poster feels he was rescued from having to deal with other products.


His feelings are irrelevant. The reality is it's a product, if he feels rescued or sexual desires towards a plastic phone that cannot change the reality that it's just a product which was never designed to be used as a sex toy or a safety device to "rescue" anyone.

I'm sure a therapist would have a field day and a fat paycheck for years dealing with his many issues related to Apple. Crazy old man indeed.

quote:
Are you going to make all your guesses judgemental, non-evidenced personal-insult drivel?


Yes. Towards Tony I use a little insult and a little fact. It's what he wants in return when he throws around insults and lies. Do unto others as they do unto you.

quote:
How is the fact that Microsoft developed products that help you got anything at all to do with the smartphone debate?


I was discussing his feelings (both sexual desires and feelings of rescue) towards Apple by comparing my own experiences with Microsoft and how their products have helped me work and create. It was designed to compare and contrast. Use that logic.

quote:
We're not talking about operating systems, we're talking about phones.


I wasn't talking to you and WE are not talking about phones since I was not talking to YOU. Can you understand that? Use that logic you're so proud of. I see you claim to use logic more than you actually use logic.

quote:
It seems it only comes down to that for you, indicating that you, are in fact, not a reasonable individual.


I am reasonable with reasonable individuals. If you look through my comment history you can make that judgment for yourself. Tony is a well known liar and a very delusional individual and there's no need to treat him with any kind of respect until he decides to be respectful and more truthful in return.

Do you like treating bad people well? Are you an enabler?

quote:
Good job in presenting a clear, logical argument..


Thanks.

quote:
Notice how the logic in my post is what insults you, I don't need to start calling you names


Logic is flawed without facts and background information. You're not doing a very good job with this. You should stick to what you know.


By jahinoz on 12/22/2011 8:23:37 PM , Rating: 2
Winning? Isn't that what Charlie Sheen does?


By DeluxeTea on 12/22/2011 10:28:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
In the past, back in the days of the Wintel platform domination of the desktop PC market

If by "past" you mean current, then yes the Wintel platform is still dominating.


By spread on 12/23/2011 1:41:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Personally my main concern is not that anyone loses but that Apple thrives, and it clearly is :)


Since you have all this spare time, I present to you this documentary about Apple. Well mostly Apple, it's like 80% about Apple and it's effect. It's mostly about marketing and psychology.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0dUuHo58UE&feature...

Watch it. Or don't.


By Koyanishi on 12/23/2011 1:48:48 PM , Rating: 1
Tony put a very well reasoned argument for discounting market share positively affecting A. cost of the product B. quality of the programs (apps) for the product and C. number and quality of peripherals for the product.

This argument was put with not one word of invective or vituperation.

But the replies to his argument have been mostly rabid, ad hominem attacks.

I suppose that the writers of such uncalled for scurrilous attacks are normally reasonable people but when they are so emotionally invested in one system their reason seems to short circuits.

That being said

As to looking at the rear view mirror

True, the past is not always an indicator of the future, but neither is the present necessarily an indicator of the future.


By Helbore on 12/23/2011 5:21:42 PM , Rating: 1
This is all daft and irrelavent. Microsoft has a dominant position because they own 95% of the market. Same for Intel and the x86 processor

Apple have a smaller market share than their nearest rival in the mobile arena, but to compare their share of the smartphone market to their share of the PC market is absurd. They've still got in the region of 30-40%. Even if its as low as 20%, that's massive compared to the ~5% they hold of the worldwide PC market.

Apple's market strategy has always been to have a high profit margin. When you have 5% of the market, that means a reasonable income, but nothing special. It also means you are a low-key player with little influence on developers.

But Apple's share of the mobile space is far from insignificant. Firstly, they swamped the smartphone market and became the dominant platform. That attracted developers. Now their market share has eroded, but the market has also grown - so their numbers remain much the same. But even with an eroded market share, it has not eroded to seriously low levels.

The truth is, the situation would not be all rosy for Apple if they owned 5% of the market and Android dominated. It certainly wouldn't have been rosy for them had android always held the dominant position form the moment the market exploded.

Comparing Apple's current position to their earlier loss in the PC space to Microsoft is incredibly misleading. The comparison is purely "Apple have a smaller market share than one of their competitors." But it does nothing to compare the actual figures.

Being outsold a million-to-one is having a smaller market share - but then so is being outsold by a single unit. Obviously the two situations are wildly different - as is Apple's current position compared to its earlier position.

The markets haven't suddenly changed. Apple haven't discovered a new sales strategy that never existed before (high profit/low market share is nothing new. All exclusive, luxury brands use it). It's just that the two scenarios are nothing alike.


By TakinYourPoints on 12/24/2011 12:02:16 AM , Rating: 1
Great, well balanced, and well reasoned argument, same with Koyanashi's. Curious to see who downvotes your post, or if people have already blown through theirs.


Mickster bull*@#!ting us all, again
By Pirks on 12/22/2011 7:03:29 PM , Rating: 1
Why? Because of this: "Apple's efforts to position its products as luxury devices"

Yeah right, the iPhone that costs the same as other high end smartphones ($200 w/contract or FREE w/contract for older iPhone models) and the MacBook Air that costs the same as comparable PC ultrabooks ($1000+) are LUXURY?!

C'mon Mickster, admit you get paid by googlers or something. You spew so much BS here, you can't do it for free :)

And we need Tony here, cheesy misses him already :))) Tony wake up man, Mickster is BSing Apple again! ALARM ALARM!!! TO BATTLE STATIONS!!! :))))




RE: Mickster bull*@#!ting us all, again
By TakinYourPoints on 12/22/11, Rating: 0
RE: Mickster bull*@#!ting us all, again
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 7:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
given the hard numbers and facts that they either twist or actively ignore
That's funny since, well, certain people are ignoring facts or twisting them to their liking regarding Apple.


RE: Mickster bull*@#!ting us all, again
By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 1:41:25 AM , Rating: 1
Such as? Show me where Android has faster hardware options, has more software, has a more robust developer community, is more secure, or is more profitable for hardware manufacturers? It loses on every single one of those counts.

Popularity doesn't mean much to me either way. Windows Phone 7 is a great platform but is obliterated by Android sales for the worst reasons: huge marketing pushes by hardware manufacturers, sales quotas from carriers that push Android sales over WP7 or iOS (disgusting btw), and suckering neckbeards into thinking that a platform is good because it is "open" even though it is trash in every other way.


RE: Mickster bull*@#!ting us all, again
By testerguy on 12/23/2011 4:05:07 AM , Rating: 1
Indeed.

The reality is that younger, less educated and less financially successful people buy Android phones. That's what the surveys tell us.

That tends to be the younger generation of geeks who tend to be very vocal on forums such as this one, particularly in the case of DailyTech who are held in extremely low regard by most in the tech community due to the obvious bias. Once they've made a purchase of an Android, most often because they have less money - they feel like they must defend it at all costs.

The other type of person who buys Android is the guy who doesn't like to get the 'popular' phone - the phone owned by the 'cool' friends. The geeks tend to feel that their choice of technology has to be better to define themselves, and so look desperately for an alternative to the iphone - that is their starting point.

Most logical, successful people, aren't that insecure, and they choose the phone with the best hardware, best apps, and highest customer satisfaction ratings. Logical.


RE: Mickster bull*@#!ting us all, again
By Cheesew1z69 on 12/23/2011 8:57:49 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The reality is that younger, less educated and less financially successful people buy Android phones
The reality is, you have no clue what you are talking about and it's obvious. 5 times now you have said this same exact thing, doesn't make it any more true no matter how many times you say it.

quote:
DailyTech who are held in extremely low regard by most in the tech community due to the obvious bias


You mean like Tony? Yes, he isn't biased AT ALL.

quote:
Most logical, successful people, aren't that insecure, and they choose the phone with the best hardware, best apps, and highest customer satisfaction ratings. Logical
Logical? In who's world? Not the real world.


By Cheesew1z69 on 12/23/2011 12:11:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
most in the tech community due to the obvious bias
Oh, and this, these are Apple people who disregard them, not the "tech community".


By tamalero on 12/26/2011 5:57:07 AM , Rating: 2
At this rate I wonder if them all are just 2-3 guys using different accounts (aka sockpuppeting)
since some of them write very similarly to each other.

like tony swash and Spread


By TakinYourPoints on 12/23/2011 5:07:01 PM , Rating: 1
I don't buy the "poor people buy Android" argument, especially given that all of these platforms cost about the same. It's also kind of a gross argument, I don't like it or its condescending tone.

Being misguided, having low standards, or letting irrelevant ideological issues sway their decisions, I totally buy those as excuses for vocal fanboys people who go Android over iOS or WP7. People who want a physical keyboard or other things like that, those I let pass.


By Cheesew1z69 on 12/22/2011 8:01:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And we need Tony here, cheesy misses him already
You have me mistaken for someone else, personally, I would would love to see you and your butt buddy banned. But hey, we can't all get our way.


Good!
By masamasa on 12/23/2011 11:44:32 AM , Rating: 2
Their claim was ridiculous anyway.




Again, too much editorializing..
By nocturne_81 on 12/24/2011 7:16:25 AM , Rating: 2
Not to say I didn't enjoy reading the headline, but the vernacular was a bit too 'spiteful' to be considered anything less than an editorial.

First of all, the entire scope of the article completely negates Apple's previous victories in both Germany and Australia, both which may seem inconsequential but still had huge implications on Samsung's profits.

Second, though it glossed over the history of the events quite a bit, the tone of the article took on too much of a 'david vs goliath' attitude, which unfortunately vastly negates any credibility of the author.

I don't seek to misrepresent any of the facts of the article, I just wish they were presented in such a fashion -as facts, not opinion. By explicitly (though possibly unknowingly/accidentally) endorsing one side while covering a conflict, you completely disregard any of your credibility as a journalist.




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