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Hardware GeForce 8 To Get Software PhysX Engine
Chris Peredun - February 15, 2008 10:33 AM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 38 comment(s) - last by 3kliksphilip.. on Feb 20 at 11:59 AM

The physics-intensive Cell Factor: Revolution demo will soon be "No PhysX Card Required"
NVIDIA's purchase of AGEIA leads to a PhysX-on-CUDA port

With the announcement earlier this month of NVIDIA's acquisition of AGEIA, rumours began to fly immediately surrounding the future of dedicated physics hardware -- and it now appears that the PhysX name will live on as a checkbox beside the capabilities of some current and most future NVIDIA GPUs.

During NVIDIA's fourth-quarter financial results conference call, CEO Jen-Hsun Huang responded to several questions about the plans for technology obtained in the AGEIA purchase, revealing that the plan is to port the AGEIA PhysX engine to NVIDIA's CUDA (Compute Unified Device Architecture) C-like programming language.

"We're working toward the physics-engine-to-CUDA port as we speak. And we intend to throw a lot of resources at it." said Huang. "[PhysX on CUDA] is just going to be a software download. Every single GPU that is CUDA-enabled will be able to run the physics engine when it comes."

NVIDIA's choice to run a physics engine on a GPU runs in stark contrast to AMD's assertion in late 2007 that "GPU based physics is dead until DirectX 11." Every NVIDIA 8-series GPU is currently capable of running CUDA applications, and future GPUs will no doubt retain this feature.

The idea of using SLI for more than graphics has been brought up by NVIDIA in the past, so it was no surprise to hear Huang endorsing its further use again. "It might - and probably will - encourage people to buy a second GPU for their SLI slot. And for the highest-end gamer, it will encourage them to buy three GPUs." No mention was made of the use of the upcoming "Hybrid SLI" technology showcased at CES 2008, but an onboard GPU supporting CUDA could theoretically be used as a physics processor while discrete GPUs handle the rendering.

No timeframe for the release of the PhysX-on-CUDA software was specified, but with the PhysX engine to be available to a larger audience, it will no doubt encourage the development of more accelerated physics engines in upcoming titles.

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Old Video Cards
By BMFPitt on 2/15/2008 11:43:59 AM , Rating: 5
Now the big question for me is whether I can plug in an "old" video card to do my physics while a "new" one does my graphics? I'd me much more willing to buy a $200 8800GT if it meant my 7900GT would then become a Phys-X card (instead of a dust collector.)




RE: Old Video Cards
By Chris Peredun on 2/15/2008 11:49:36 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Now the big question for me is whether I can plug in an "old" video card to do my physics while a "new" one does my graphics?


Unfortunately not - CUDA isn't supported on anything other than the 8-series right now, just due to the requirement for a more programmable unit.

Depending on the efficiency of the PhysX-on-CUDA engine though, you could pick up a low-end 8-series card just for physics and let your 7900GT continue to handle graphics.


RE: Old Video Cards
By mendocinosummit on 2/15/2008 12:16:39 PM , Rating: 2
I am surprised that they don't all have to be the same card or do they have to be?


RE: Old Video Cards
By Chris Peredun on 2/15/2008 12:20:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am surprised that they don't all have to be the same card or do they have to be?


While the current iteration of SLI requires that the cards be identical, just for the ease of balancing the workload (either via SFR or AFR) - the upcoming Hybrid SLI's "GeForce Boost" is aiming to negate that requirement.

Also, if the cards are not in an SLI configuration - or in a two-card SLI with a third acting totally outside the graphics loop - it would seem that only the "paired" cards would need to be identical; the third could run on its own time.


RE: Old Video Cards
By UppityMatt on 2/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: Old Video Cards
By Proteusza on 2/15/2008 2:47:01 PM , Rating: 2
My guess is that if you could, you would need to treat one of the cards as a 320MB card.

Why bother anyway, unless you got one of them for free.


RE: Old Video Cards
By Clauzii on 2/15/2008 10:37:46 PM , Rating: 2
The 640MB card will behave like it only had 320. (Don't know if nVidia changed that with recent drivers??)


RE: Old Video Cards
By MPE on 2/15/2008 11:50:58 AM , Rating: 2
As they said, it has to be an 8xxx card to run CUDA.


RE: Old Video Cards
By teldar on 2/15/2008 11:55:36 AM , Rating: 1
Beat me to it. Was just going to say, it has to be an 8 series or after product.

T


RE: Old Video Cards
By drank12quartsstrohsbeer on 2/15/2008 12:24:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but what (i think) the original poster meant was will it work with two non-identical supported cards. For example a 8800gt and a 9xxx card.

I think a lot of people would be willing up upgrade sooner if they can still use their older card for something.


RE: Old Video Cards
By lompocus on 2/16/2008 12:03:19 AM , Rating: 3
The 8800 alone is good enough for physics. It won't use up too much processing power, and you won't notice it unless you're playing Crysis. Crysis does not use PhysX, however, and in my opinion I could go with losing 20 frames off of the 100+ frames I get in every other game under the sun.

OMG Imagine the R700 with physX, even though that will never happen. The R700's architecture just BEGS for a similar physics thing!


RE: Old Video Cards
By goku on 2/17/08, Rating: 0
RE: Old Video Cards
By 3kliksphilip on 2/20/2008 11:59:25 AM , Rating: 2
Disabling that pretty flag effect, I can run Cell Factor smoothly on a Geforce 8800 with out any sort of Physics processor. There were some smaller demos as well which I managed to get working, with a rippable carpet and a big block. All ran at a constant 60 fps. You'd have thought that they would have prevented people from running the programmes with out the Physx card completely.

All I need now is a way of running ATI's new videos to demonstrate the power of the X2900 and X3800 series ;)


RE: Old Video Cards
By Polynikes on 2/15/2008 1:20:10 PM , Rating: 2
I guess it's just a question of whether the card supports CUDA, as that's how they'll implement the physics capability.


RE: Old Video Cards
By Magnus Dredd on 2/16/2008 2:50:46 PM , Rating: 2
No but the 8 Series cards (GeForce 8xxx) start at around $40 on newegg for a EVGA 256MB GeForce 8400GS ($38 + $5 shipping - 10 rebate). Unfortunately you'd be losing an x16 PCIe slot for a relatively slow card.

After PhysX is ported to the 8 Series Nvidia cards, we'll actually be able to see how fast the Ageia cards are... It's possible that a bottom of the line Nvidia card will be as fast, or possibly not.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...


Needs an standard API
By phatboye on 2/15/2008 10:44:06 AM , Rating: 5
I'd rather wait till there is a standard API like an "OpenPL" or dx11 before jumping on the Physics PPU bandwagon. I don't want to be stuck using one vendors products.




RE: Needs an standard API
By ochentay4 on 2/15/2008 11:19:32 AM , Rating: 3
I totally agree with you. If physics is "the new thing", better be a standard API. It will kill competition, and probably make products expensive. Competition is always good, specially for consumers.


RE: Needs an standard API
By bighairycamel on 2/15/2008 11:27:43 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed.

quote:
...Huang endorsing its further use again. "It might - and probably will - encourage people to buy a second GPU for their SLI slot. And for the highest-end gamer, it will encourage them to buy three GPUs."


For now I think the only people who would potentially go for this are the same people who go for the "gaming" NIC or a 1000W PSU... all just overkill.


RE: Needs an standard API
By dsumanik on 2/15/2008 11:30:05 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed except for one thing,

You are not jumping on a single vendor's bandwagon and getting a standalone ppu here that may or may not become a dust collector...you are getting the option to run pure all out SLI framerates or trading some of the number crunching on the second GPU to do the physicas calculations.

This costs you as a consumer nothing, unless you want it too and at worst case..you end up with SLI..

bling!


RE: Needs an standard API
By oldman42 on 2/15/2008 11:34:03 AM , Rating: 2
Good point... Plus, in 4-5 years when games start showing up using DX11, your actions right now will have absolutely no impact whatsoever.


RE: Needs an standard API
By Mitch101 on 2/15/2008 1:08:16 PM , Rating: 3
Actually AGEIA had a number of in game enhancements and some add on levels so this already has a game base or instant effect on some of todays games. The difference though is you could have gotten these enhancements with a $99.00 Ageia card instead of purchasing a second 8800gt for $205.00.

The ones to benefit would be those who have SLI rigs already but dont need SLI for a paticular game and can have one card render the graphics while the second one adds the physics eye candy.

Pretty smart NVIDIA. Now if we look at Intel's purchase of Physics software we find that NVIDIA made the smarter move. One with an existing game base that can be seen immediately rendering the Intel purchase a poor one. Which in the end will just make Intel more mad with NVIDIA. Expect more rife between these two.