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GM Vice-Chairman Bob Lutz
We're guessing there will be a reserve on GM's eBay auctions

As part of the government-driven automaker's bid for revival, GM will be switching to selling some vehicles online, an industry first.

Additional information on the drive was just released.  The trial deployment will start in California.  In total, 225 of California's 250 GM dealers will be offering Buick, Chevrolet, GMC and Pontiac vehicles for sale on a co-branded page of eBay Motors, the site's auto marketplace.  Auctions will start September 8 and vehicles will be searchable both from the eBay and eBay Motors homepages.

While many dealers have sold vehicles on eBay in the past, the new program will mark the first time an automaker has officially endorsed and promoted online sales of new vehicles on eBay.  For eBay Motors, it marks a departure from the site's traditional bread and butter -- used car and parts sales.

The site includes a tool to help customers figure out whether they're eligible for thousands in "cash-for-clunkers" stimulus money.  Just like at the dealership, customers will have the option of paying a fix price or haggling with a dealer. 

EBay Motors Vice President Rob Chesney says California is the ideal trial deployment for the program, given the state's tech-savvy population.  GM says the state is ideal, as it's one of the states the company is targeting for sales improvement.  The program was first announced in July, with California being mentioned as the likely trial state.  No official deal had been revealed, though, until this week.

GM Vice-Chairman Bob Lutz says the online sales won't cut out dealers.  He states, "There is no model which can legally permit automobile companies to sell directly to the customer.  That’s just prohibited by law in almost all states.  But what we hope to do by this is…the dealer puts up the car on that Internet auction and then the customers can bid on them. Once the bidding is successful, the customer then contacts that dealer for the pickup…Then there’s always one issue that can never be dealt with on an Internet sale, and that’s the question of the used car that the customer wants to trade in."

"Every 10 or 15 years or so, and I've been in this business since 1963, in sales and marketing, some genius invents a system that’s going to eliminate car dealers.  Everybody always gets excited an sometimes Wall Street puts a lot of money into it and it always fails because the franchise independent retailer is always the way to go.  It always works best."

Mark LaNeve, GM's vice president of U.S. sales believes that the site will help provide customers with a greater sense of security when buying vehicles online.  GM would not reveal specific financial details of the partnership.  However, GM spokesman John McDonald says the partnership should be profitable for both companies and could expand across the country, if successful.



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Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 9:50:57 AM , Rating: 4
Let's put aside the whole Ebay idea and focus on brick and mortar sales. Why are dealerships closed on Sundays? Even worse are service departments that close around 1pm on Saturdays.

Why do dealerships have to follow old fashioned and outdated Blue Laws when Target and Walmart are opened seven days a week? Before anyone says "its a large purchase with less sales," take a look at the real estate industry that is open 7 days a week as well.

People do a lot of shopping on both Saturday and Sunday. With many households having two income earners, it is challenging to wrestle with the dealership experience M-F.




RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 9:56:02 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Why are dealerships closed on Sundays?

How many banks are open on Sundays?
quote:
Why do dealerships have to follow old fashioned and outdated Blue Laws when Target and Walmart are opened seven days a week?

Target and Walmart or not independently owned like dealerships are - these are the decisions of each owner, and not yours to make. And just because the service department may be closed to the public on Saturday afternoons and Sundays, it doesn't mean that the service people aren't actually working on cars during those times.
quote:
With many households having two income earners, it is challenging to wrestle with the dealership experience M-F.

Which is why they're open late till 9pm or so during the week. Sure, Sundays may attract buyers, the facts are that the workers still want weekends off to spend with family and the banks aren't opened.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 10:10:48 AM , Rating: 4
My bank is open 7 days a week - http://www.tdbank.com. One of the primary reasons why I do transactions with them is the hours of access. Based on the amount of people there on weekends, I am not the only one that finds this feature useful.

Auto sales (at least in my state of NJ) are governed by dated Blue Laws - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law. It has nothing to do with independently owned versus corporate, just a hold over from a bygone era.

Have you ever test drove a car in the dark? It sucks as well as driving in the rain. Using your same argument about people want to spend time with their family, I don't get home until 7pm and the last thing I want to do is drag the kids out to go car shopping.

With auto sales in a slump, I know of many car sales type people who will gladly work on Sundays for more cut of commission.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 10:17:53 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not disputing anything that you're saying, in fact I do agree with you. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion.

Personally, I just purchased a brand new car (Lincoln Navigator) after trading in my 08 Tahoe. I did it during the day time, on a Saturday, and did all the paperwork via fax with my local Credit Union.

I wouldn't buy a new car in the dark, when you cannot fully inspect your new vehicle...however, I have found that they are more willing to negotiate with you right before closing time - especially if you keep them there past closing hours.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 10:25:20 AM , Rating: 2
Hmm, suprised about the Navigator. I could see you with a Q7 TDI or ML320 CDI or even GL320 CDI. Remember reading about the troubles you had with the A4, but that was a bad period for VW/Audi.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 10:29:21 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, that Audi put a very bad taste in my mouth. Engine sludge, electrical system going haywire, window breaking INSIDE the door, and fuel injectors blowing...all before 60,000 miles. That pretty much sealed the deal of me never buying a German made car ever again. So many people say they love them and have no problems - but I just can't pull the trigger again.

I'm in love with the looks of the M5 and 335i, but I just can't bring myself to lay down the cash for something that gives me major pauses.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By FITCamaro on 8/10/2009 11:48:26 AM , Rating: 2
Why'd you get rid of the Tahoe?


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 12:07:48 PM , Rating: 2
Dislike of Government Motors for one, the navigation system got jacked up and they wouldn't fix it, and i ended up breaking even on the Tahoe with my cousins employee plan for Ford.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Spuke on 8/10/2009 2:07:19 PM , Rating: 2
How's the new Navigator? My friend has a 2nd gen Navigator and although he likes it, I was unimpressed with the rear seating. The seats were really small and uncomfortable. And, for the money, I would've expected a bit more luxury.


By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 2:49:47 PM , Rating: 2
I do like it, and I personally think its more luxurious on the inside than the Tahoe LTZ. The seats aren't as comfortable up front as the chevy, and the engine isn't as powerful feelings....but its rides smoother and handles a bit better I think.


By Spuke on 8/10/2009 2:01:04 PM , Rating: 2
Audi's don't exactly have sterling reliability from what I've read. My bro-in-law also had problems with his All-Road.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By rudolphna on 8/10/2009 12:43:53 PM , Rating: 2
I like the Navigator but Ford needs to develop a bigger engine for them. Or hell, put the Ecoboost V6 in it. That gets, what 360HP? Much better than the current 300 from the 5.4L and will get better fuel economy to boot. Do the same for the F-150, as it's the only real thing that should make anyone pause and consider a different truck.


By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 2:52:30 PM , Rating: 2
I agree - I have an 09 Navigator and an 09 F-150, both 4x4 with the 5.4L V8. I would like to see something bigger in the range of a 5.8-6.0L and get about 350+hp.

The gas mileage I don't much care about, but the 300hp in comparison to the 320 in my 08 Tahoe that i traded in seems like a much bigger difference than 20hp.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By sigmatau on 8/10/09, Rating: -1
RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 12:30:49 PM , Rating: 2
My fault, there was a period after the .com. Far from being a small bank.
http://www.tdbank.com/

But have you ever gone out to eat on a weekend? Maybe gone to a NFL game... who served you beer or hotdogs? In the service industry (the car dealerships are "adding" value), the customer is always right. Poor service or product will kill businesses (Saab, Yugo, Lone Star Steak House) and great products/service stand on their own (Lexus, Porsche, Outback)

Sort of off topic, when interviewing for my department, I weigh heavily on previous food service business experience. One of the best techsupport staff that ever worked for me came right from being a pizza chef. Anyone can learn the IT part, but few people can master the customer service and multi-tasking required to be an excellent waiter/waitress/cook.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By sigmatau on 8/10/09, Rating: -1
RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 12:57:00 PM , Rating: 4
Its called shift rotation aka Management 101. Guess you never were a waiter, bartender, or cook let alone anything that resembles a business degree.

Plus, its easy enough to install the largest TVs with HD NFL package at dealerships and have cookouts on Sundays. Free food or service coupons in exchange for email address and contact info always draws in people. Build a reputation that the best deals are on Sunday (just like other retail locations) and you set up your sales pipeline per week with reduced buyers remorse.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By sigmatau on 8/10/09, Rating: 0
RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Spuke on 8/10/2009 2:15:25 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If you ask them to stay open on Sundays, you are getting dangerously close to having uncaring and unhappy people serve you.
It's called shift rotation (I went ahead and put it in BOLD this time since you ignored it the first time). I live in CA and restaurants and dealerships are ALL working on weekends. You have to compete and the guy that's open on Sunday is going to get all of the business your "staying at home cause it's muh day off" is going to lose.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By sigmatau on 8/10/09, Rating: 0
RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Spuke on 8/10/2009 5:59:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you family doctor
My doctor works Sundays occasionally. Even if he's not there, I can get another doctor (oh noes that shift thing again). BTW, no one can force you to work a shift as working is voluntary. If you don't like the hours, you are free to work somewhere else. I don't have to ask anyone to be open on Sundays as most businesses here in CA are open on Sundays. There are some that aren't (banks) but most everything else is. Obviously, there's millions of people that don't mind working a shift other than the standard Mon - Fri deal and businesses here make more money in the process by providing their services 7 days a week.

Would I work a Sunday? Sure, if I get Fri and Sat off or Monday and Tuesday. As long as I have a "weekend", it's all good with me. If I went to an interview and the company wanted someone to work 7 days a week, I'd simply not accept their offer (if presented with one) and go somewhere else.


By menting on 8/10/2009 1:18:39 PM , Rating: 2
So I guess where you live no stores or restaurants are open on weekends?
the car industry is just like any other retail/service industry.
I know that if a dealer is open till late on sundays/saturdays, they'll more likely to get my business compared to another dealer selling the same car i'm interested in, and I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other people like me out there as well. So for employees that work on commission, I'm sure that a lot are willing to rotate shifts on weekends for that extra cash.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By chick0n on 8/10/09, Rating: -1
RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 10:44:09 AM , Rating: 2
Personally, I think you're full of it. I bank with Chase, just went online and did a search by my zip code and area zip codes. Not a single branch is open on Sundays. I just did the same with Bank of America and nothing open Sunday either.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Nfarce on 8/10/2009 10:53:09 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Here in metro Atlanta and in all of the southeast in general there isn't one single bank open on Sunday. Now maybe in California or New York where nobody seems to ever go to bed at night or chill out on Sunday that may not be the case.


By joemoedee on 8/10/2009 11:39:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Exactly. Here in metro Atlanta and in all of the southeast in general there isn't one single bank open on Sunday.


Nope, in some Kroger locations, BestBank is open on Sunday.


By Spuke on 8/10/2009 2:21:38 PM , Rating: 2
I'm in California and the local banks are not open on Saturdays or Sundays.


By weskurtz0081 on 8/10/2009 11:11:39 AM , Rating: 2
There are banks in Texas that are open 24/7. However, they are not nation wide banks. Woodforest, and bank that I deal with, has branches that are open 24/7, that's why I picked them.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By 91TTZ on 8/10/2009 9:57:11 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. It's archaic. I still remember when banks were never open when you got out of work. If you wanted to go to a bank you had to take off work.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By CU on 8/10/2009 10:18:42 AM , Rating: 2
What time do most banks close? The one I use is closed when I get off.


By 91TTZ on 8/10/2009 10:45:02 AM , Rating: 2
All the banks used to close around 3 or 4 pm. The one I use now has these hours:

M-W: 7:30-8
Th-F: 7:30-8
Sat: 7:30-6
Sun: 11:00-4

BTW, It's Commerce Bank (now TD Bank). Their hours are one of the main reasons I switched to them.


By SublimeSimplicity on 8/10/2009 10:02:44 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Why are dealerships closed on Sundays? Even worse are service departments that close around 1pm on Saturdays.


In Georgia it's illegal to sell beer and wine on Sunday. This was a law that originated from a strong baptist movement in the "Bible Belt". However, at least in GA, you will find very few baptists who think the law should still be around. You know who argues the heaviest against lifting the ban? Alcohol stores (called package stores here) because by having the ban in place their total sales aren't hurt much and it reduces their overhead to not be open on Sundays.

I'm sure the same applies here. What are you going to do if you need your car fixed at 2pm on a Saturday? The dealership isn't going to lose your business, you'll bring it to them on Monday morning and they'll have saved operating costs for 1.5 days.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By drmo on 8/10/2009 10:21:25 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think most states have laws preventing dealerships being open on Sundays. If that was so, then why are so many closing early Saturday as well. It is probably like many businesses: they just want to spend some time with their families. Personally, I am glad that I don't have to work weekends; there is no law preventing it, but it is generally considered bad business to require employees to work every day of the week.

Those who are complaining that they can't go to the bank/dealership during working hours, etc., why are you working during "bank hours"? Why don't you just work on weekends instead? I suspect the reasons are similar, i.e., you don't want to work those other times, and your company doesn't want to keep the place fully staffed those times.

Also, as an aside, according to this (don't know if it is true) Henry Ford started the 5-day work-week: http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myth...


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By drmo on 8/10/2009 10:31:21 AM , Rating: 2
For those in states that do not require dealerships to be closed on Sundays -- Are the dealerships open?

I, personally don't think there should be a law banning Sunday car sales, but it is probably good for the dealerships.


By Spuke on 8/10/2009 2:34:45 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
For those in states that do not require dealerships to be closed on Sundays -- Are the dealerships open?
I'm in California and dealerships are open 7 days a week. You can't compete in the this state running 5 days a week. Hell, even my friends computer store is open 7 days a week. The banks get away with it because they're ALL closed on the same days, but if one of the big one's decides to open 7 days a week, the rest will most assuredly follow suit or lose customers.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By FITCamaro on 8/10/2009 10:32:45 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I think its good that a business gives its employees a day off.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Baltar on 8/10/2009 10:56:00 AM , Rating: 1
It's silly to be closed on weekends..

If there's issues with people having time off, then hire people to work something like Saturday-Wednesday, or Wednesday -Sunday. You can even hire part timers to work just weekends alone - there's people desperate enough in this economy to work weekends and weekdays in another job.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By drmo on 8/10/2009 11:38:10 AM , Rating: 1
But if people need a new car, they can come in some other time. (It isn't like food, where you have to eat every day.) And if they say "well, I have to work at the other times" then their work could be the one open on Sundays. Also, many car dealers are open very late on weekdays (like 9PM around here (Texas)).


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By PrinceGaz on 8/10/2009 11:58:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It isn't like food, where you have to eat every day

Although slightly changing the subject, you most certainly do not have to eat every day. Assuming you eat a reasonable diet generally, you could go a day without food every week with no adverse effects whatsoever, apart from feeling hungry at first because you are not used to it. Besides, most people have a fridge and cupboards in their kitchen to store food for when the shops are shut (in the developed world anyway).


By drmo on 8/10/2009 4:08:17 PM , Rating: 2
"Although slightly changing the subject, you most certainly do not have to eat every day. "

Okay, thanks for stating the obvious, but generally we do eat every day.

The point I was trying to make is that you can afford to take a few hours off work (or reschedule) to make a purchase that you only do every 4-10 years. It is not quite as simple to shut down eating establishments, which do quite well with the after-Church crowd.

BTW, I did agree that the government doesn't need to get involved in making these pronouncements, but I wouldn't want to work on weekends.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Nfarce on 8/10/2009 10:59:10 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Alcohol stores (called package stores here) because by having the ban in place their total sales aren't hurt much and it reduces their overhead to not be open on Sundays.


Yup. That's why Saturdays are always busy in package stores here. You learn to deal with it. Besides, if someone is worried about not having access to booze on Sunday, then maybe he or she has a problem to address. Anyway, not being open on Sunday hasn't hurt Mr. Cathy's Chick-fil-A either.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By acase on 8/10/2009 11:35:32 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Anyway, not being open on Sunday hasn't hurt Mr. Cathy's Chick-fil-A either.


Not true. It seems Sundays are about the only days I ever have a craving for Chick-Fil-A. Must just be the forbidden fruit. Come Monday it just doesn't sound good anymore.


By Nfarce on 8/10/2009 12:30:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not true. It seems Sundays are about the only days I ever have a craving for Chick-Fil-A. Must just be the forbidden fruit. Come Monday it just doesn't sound good anymore.


Actually there is nothing forbidden about it. One of Mr. Cathy's earliest principles was to ensure his employees have Sundays off to spend time with their families. And methinks your Sunday craving is more psychological than anything else. Your mind and stomach is craving something it can't have on a certain day. Buy a sandwich on Saturday night and stick it in the fridge and see how much you still crave it on Sunday. :D


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By KingViper on 8/10/2009 11:11:26 AM , Rating: 1
Don't forget the idea that most people don't buy alcohol on Sunday because they have school or work on Monday. Friday and Saturday are the main days to drink. Anyway, in Missouri, since grocery stores can carry hard alcohol, it's sold on Sunday. Personally, I think there's been like 1 instance where I've wanted to buy alcohol on a Sunday.

Maybe I'm just too much of a binge drinker.


By sticks435 on 8/10/2009 4:56:07 PM , Rating: 2
During football season, I go at least 8 times, for my tailgating refresments. Plus, if there's a Monday holiday, it's good to be able to buy on Sunday's.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By FITCamaro on 8/10/2009 10:31:20 AM , Rating: 2
Depends on the state. In some areas the culture is certain places are closed on Sundays. Others its not. Here in Charleston they're closed on Sundays. In Orlando they weren't.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 10:34:16 AM , Rating: 2
Well think about it, Chick-Fil-A is closed on Sundays to recognize their religious beliefs. If they were open on Sundays, especially at their mall locations, they could be making even more money. Sometimes, its nice to see that some people in these companies have morals and are not always about the money.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By sigmatau on 8/10/09, Rating: 0
RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 12:38:58 PM , Rating: 2
Guess you never worked in a hospital or acute care environment. People work Sundays, have 12+ hours shifts, and **gasp** holidays. Working on the IT side of things for this type of environment is equally demanding.

While I am not ranking car sales up with 24/7/365 emergency services, at the end of the day they are both services. If car manufacturers complain about poor sales, focus on the value add to increase sales... especially if the product is viewed as perceived as inferior. Take a look at VW; their product is sometimes polar opposites in quality. The dealerships recognize this and cuddle the customers. What does this mean? VW typically has the highest rate of return buyers of their cars.


By sigmatau on 8/10/2009 12:58:56 PM , Rating: 2
No, working at a hospital is not nearly the same as at a car dealer. I will agree with you on that. Not sure if you made a point. Are you a hiring manager? They must love you!

I doubt you could say VW's success has anything to do with being open on Sundays. As a poster above said when they tried opening on Sundays they had no business. I highly doubt opening on Sundays will even allow them to make a profit for the day. Maybe some dealers will, I can't say that also.

I can say that companies are being allowed to trample on workers' benefits more and more these days and some workers (cowards) seem to think that is fine. You have chosen to work on Sundays. IT sometimes requires it, sometimes not. It is, in the end, a business dicision.

I giggle when I see the poor peons working at these new little banks (not much more than cash checking agencies) that have to work on Saturdays and Sundays until 7-9pm on those days getting payed $9-$10 an hour. If you expect much service from these people, good luck!

Some fast food places here close on the weekends! Heaven forbid it! I live in a high tech/pharma hot spot. I guess some fast food places (Quizno's) don't get much business on weekens when these companies are closed so they close too. I'm sure their employees are loving it.

I'd rather bring my car in to mechanics that are happy, not stuck working at a place until they can find something better.


RE: Why are care dealerships closed on Sundays?
By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 2:56:14 PM , Rating: 2
Now wait a minute - you're taking what I said and massaging it to mean something else.

First off, I'm only saying that its nice to see some people who are concerned with their business and personal lives, and don't let money get in the middle of it.

But to somehow twist that into me saying that companies FORCE people to work on Sunday is just complete and utter bunk. You know what, no one is forcing them to work Sunday, and no one is forcing them to work there at all. Don't like it? Quit and get another job. A job is an opportunity - not a right. Don't act like you have all these rights when you're somewhere voluntarily and they are paying you for it.


By Nfarce on 8/10/2009 4:54:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A job is an opportunity - not a right. Don't act like you have all these rights when you're somewhere voluntarily and they are paying you for it.


Yeah well a lot of people who voted for "change" in this nation don't see it like that, and certainly the unions don't. To them it is their job, not the company's job. It is no coincidence the current leadership of Washington wants more control over private enterprise. The icing on the irony cake however has to go to Michigan, where they are wanting to raise the minimum wage to $10/hr. Yeah buddy, that will help dried up and all but abandoned towns in Michigan for sure!

Meanwhile jobs continue to disappear as corporations and companies escape ever increasing taxes and bottom-line impacting legislation like Cap & Trade. This Bloomberg article spells it out pretty well:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtons...


By joemoedee on 8/10/2009 11:46:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why are dealerships closed on Sundays? Even worse are service departments that close around 1pm on Saturdays.


Depends on where you are.

In GA, plenty of dealers are open on Sundays. In the Atlanta metro area most of them are open on Sundays.

I dreaded working Sundays. Most times it wasn't worth opening the doors, the sales just aren't there. (Many folks liked to actually just look on a Sunday, without a salesperson pitching them a deal)

Other states have laws on Car sales... ie, in NJ its illegal to sell a car on Sunday.

Archaic yes, but I don't honestly think many dealers miss out on too many sales.

Service departments on the other hand closing at 1 is pretty lousy. I think its more of a staffing issue than anything as they're typically hourly employees.

As a salesperson, the typical schedule would be one day off during the week (Typically a Tuesday or Thursday) plus every other Sunday if your dealer was open on Sundays. It didn't matter the hours you worked, as they did not have to pay OT.

Service personnel would work Mon-Fri and every other Sunday for a few hours, thus limiting the OT.


By Nik00117 on 8/10/2009 11:49:13 AM , Rating: 3
I work at a dealership and we cleary have it posted, if you need us to be open at a time which we aren't open at let us know! If a dealership isn't willing to do this then they don't need your business.

I had one high end customer, he wanted to be confidential about his purchase so he asked us to be open at 9 PM (3 hours after our normal business hours) I said that's fine. So i'd go home a bit earlier and come back at 9 to do what I needed to do.


By Xenoterranos on 8/10/2009 12:29:03 PM , Rating: 2
My dad works used cars. Pushing 60, and he's still their top salesperson and refuses to retire from the business. He's worked every Sunday (except when it landed on Fathers Day) for the last 30 years. Maybe you just need to shop at a better dealer?


By Alexvrb on 8/10/2009 7:08:08 PM , Rating: 2
While we're at it lets make sure every workplace is open 24/7 whether it makes sense or not, and make 60 hours/week the minimum to be considered full time.


By upster on 8/12/2009 5:25:51 PM , Rating: 1
Because they have to go to church and pray for their sins against customers the entire week.


Another half-assed idea in an attempt to make money.
By 91TTZ on 8/10/09, Rating: 0
By The0ne on 8/10/2009 9:37:47 AM , Rating: 2
There are rumors of GM also planning to sell cars on craigslist, with hookers and African scammers attached of course.


By AEvangel on 8/10/2009 9:49:11 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
with hookers and African scammers attached of course.


Isn't that same as with the normal dealer channels now??

I kid because I love....but seriously, this company is a waste of time and Lutz couldn't find his arse with both hands, of course the Auto industry wouldn't be in the shape it is now if it weren't for all the Government interference in the industry of the last 50 years.


By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 9:50:29 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
of course the Auto industry wouldn't be in the shape it is now if it weren't for all the Government interference in the industry of the last 50 years.

Nuff said right there. Just wait and see what they do to our health care industry....


By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 9:59:59 AM , Rating: 1
Only replying to this as we are both in the same vertical. Our industry is the only one that can get away without posting price lists within waiting rooms.

If someone goes to NYC to a Dunkin Donuts, they know the Blueberry Muffin costs $1.50 and has 510 calories because its posted in plain sight. In our industry, that yearly checkup should have the word "Depends on who you are" right next to it. Forget about the emergency room. Healthcare is a service and should be equal to all.

Not that I agree with the proposed solution that is being put together, but a real solution is long overdue.


By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 2:59:18 PM , Rating: 3
If all people rolled off an assembly line and every health/medical issue was treated exactly the same with the same number of resources and in the same amount of time...then maybe we can treat it like a product in which they all cost the same to produce.

Fact is, they don't. Just because two people have a certain issue, doesn't mean its going to take the same level of effort and time to make each one better. So you can't charge the same.


By Lord 666 on 8/10/2009 3:22:04 PM , Rating: 2
Treating patients with a cookie cutter is an unspoken goal of Electronic Health Records and its coming quickly... especially when 14 billion dollars is up for grabs.


By TSS on 8/10/2009 10:07:11 AM , Rating: 2
http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/10/news/economy/healt...

If the above is true then, from the first 2 leading wastes of money it's obvious where the problem lies:

Litigation.

Somehow i hardly see that changing with more government interference.


By sigmatau on 8/10/2009 12:38:42 PM , Rating: 1
Wow! Why do people bring up this incorrect idea? Litigation contributes to less than 1% of our health care expenses. Getting rid of that will not help our health care at all. I agree that some caps be places so someone doesn't get 30 million for having a rash on his elbow for the rest of his life.

It is our system of health insurance that is running up the costs. Who are these companies that we have allowed to rape us and the system? And we, the blind, will actualy fight for them over government health care!?! We have indroduced a middle man in our health care that is there for only one purpose: to make a profit.


By Steve1981 on 8/10/2009 1:31:20 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Wow! Why do people bring up this incorrect idea?


Because it merits discussion. While the actual awards from lawsuits might not be a massive sum in comparison to the total revenues generated by the health care industry, if you had actually read the posted article you would understand the effects that an abuse of malpractice lawsuits can have: it forces doctors to practice defensive medicine. That most assuredly drives up the cost of health care.

quote:
It is our system of health insurance that is running up the costs...


I would actually agree that our system of health insurance is far from perfect. As an example, I'm unsure why I need to pay an insurance company to pay my primary care doctor for me. Certainly it adds cost to the equation, and if anything it hurts me by limiting my choice of doctors. As far as I'm concerned, health insurance is there for unforeseeable catastrophes. Trying to apply insurance to other items just adds unnecessary overhead to the system.

quote:
And we, the blind, will actualy fight for them over government health care!?! We have indroduced a middle man in our health care that is there for only one purpose: to make a profit.


And you suppose that introducing government run health care would introduce a middle man that is solely interested in the well being of the individuals that it serves? Ha.


By sigmatau on 8/10/2009 5:04:01 PM , Rating: 2
So you mean to tell me your original post was fictitious and was only their to spark discussion? You concede that litigation, the one word explanation you used for our excessive health care costs, is the incorrect reason for the high costs?

Um... what was your point?

You prefer a money greedy wall streeter to an elected government official? LOL!


By Steve1981 on 8/10/2009 5:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So you mean to tell me your original post was fictitious and was only their to spark discussion? You concede that litigation, the one word explanation you used for our excessive health care costs, is the incorrect reason for the high costs?

Um... what was your point?


You might note that I did not write the "original" post. However, the point of my post was largely to refute your assertion that litigation accounts for a sub-1% rise in health care costs. Again, if you had read the linked article, you might have understood the indirect effects of litigation are quite significant.

quote:
You prefer a money greedy wall streeter to an elected government official? LOL!


Frankly, I prefer to rely upon neither. If you think either are looking out for your well being, you're seriously deluded.

That said, at least with a greedy insurance companies, I can always decline their services. I have choices. I can pick a plan that suits my personal needs. With a government run plan, I get to do what they tell me.


By sigmatau on 8/10/2009 9:22:56 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I didn't want to talk about your "talking points" as that's all they are. "Defensive medicine" is another Republican talking point used to scare people away from real health care.

BTW, you don't have a say with the insurance companies. You can't get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition. If you do it will be too expensive to afford. All insurances offer basicaly the same thing. Why not just dump your insurance and open up a savings account. Imagine how much of that $3k-$4k you can save a year that is funneled to them. At least with government-issued health care, I don't have to worry about being denied.

People that have health insurance really need to look around and think about people that don't have it. The health care debate is mostly about them, not you. Oh and cry me some more tears about who pays for it. Unless you make half a million a year, please stfu. And if you make over half a million, please stfu.


By Steve1981 on 8/10/2009 10:02:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes, I didn't want to talk about your "talking points" as that's all they are. "Defensive medicine" is another Republican talking point used to scare people away from real health care.


In other words, you don't have an answer to the linked report, so you'll write it off as a "Republican talking point". Funny, I don't find that to be a valid defense.

quote:
BTW, you don't have a say with the insurance companies.


If nothing else, you can decline their services. That's more than you can say about socialized medicine. You have no choice but to pay up when Uncle Sam says the bill is due.

quote:
You can't get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition. If you do it will be too expensive to afford.


What can I say, I'm one of those cold-hearted people who doesn't believe a system can work too well when people don't put in what they take out of it. If you have a pre-existing condition, or make decisions that affect your risk to insure like smoke, drink heavily, are obese, etc, you should necessarily pay more IMO. I'm sure smokers, boozers, and fat people feel differently, but what can I say, I'm not inclined to pay for their insurance coverage.

quote:
Why not just dump your insurance and open up a savings account. Imagine how much of that $3k-$4k you can save a year that is funneled to them.


There is nothing stopping you from doing so. Given my circumstances I'm happy with relatively inexpensive catastrophic coverage and dumping the rest into my emergency fund.

quote:
At least with government-issued health care, I don't have to worry about being denied.


No. The only caveat is that you only get the care that politicians say you'll get. You'll forgive me for telling them to stuff it.

quote:
. Oh and cry me some more tears about who pays for it.


As long as it's not you, right??? Frankly, I find it sickening how some folks are so willing to spend other people's money. No I probably wouldn't pay much more in the way of taxes, as I'm not particularly affluent. Nonetheless, I see the economic drawback in attempting to tax people who have large incomes into oblivion, and I have moral objections to it as well.


By sigmatau on 8/10/2009 11:56:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In other words, you don't have an answer to the linked report, so you'll write it off as a "Republican talking point". Funny, I don't find that to be a valid defense.


No, I refuse to discuss made up numbers as I refuse to discuss the president's birth country.

quote:
If nothing else, you can decline their services. That's more than you can say about socialized medicine. You have no choice but to pay up when Uncle Sam says the bill is due.


Wrong! With insurance, some of either have it or not. With government funded health care we all have it.

quote:
What can I say, I'm one of those cold-hearted people who doesn't believe a system can work too well when people don't put in what they take out of it. If you have a pre-existing condition, or make decisions that affect your risk to insure like smoke, drink heavily, are obese, etc, you should necessarily pay more IMO. I'm sure smokers, boozers, and fat people feel differently, but what can I say, I'm not inclined to pay for their insurance coverage.


ROFL! Now that's a gem! So, on the same token, I can opt out of paying for your kids when you get a tax break? Or people that marry to pay less taxes, etc., etc. I see how you cherry pick your arguments. What about the kid that was born with AIDS? He should put in what he gets out too? What about people with other birth defects or people involved in car accidents?

quote:
There is nothing stopping you from doing so. Given my circumstances I'm happy with relatively inexpensive catastrophic coverage and dumping the rest into my emergency fund.


Well, the point is instead of paying someone to save the money for you in an insurance found while they make money off of it, pay the medical provider directly.

quote:
No. The only caveat is that you only get the care that politicians say you'll get. You'll forgive me for telling them to stuff it.


Another lie Republicans love to spread. Who said we were going to convert everyone to government founed health care? They are looking to expand medicare. By doing so, they will make insurance companies compete or go out of business like they should. And they will remove pre-existing conditions which is the biggest BS since insurance companies were given free reign 30 some years ago.

quote:
As long as it's not you, right??? Frankly, I find it sickening how some folks are so willing to spend other people's money. No I probably wouldn't pay much more in the way of taxes, as I'm not particularly affluent. Nonetheless, I see the economic drawback in attempting to tax people who have large incomes into oblivion, and I have moral objections to it as well.


And it kills me that people would not vote for universal health care but will vote to go to war over lies. Are you seriously trying to be sympathetic to privalaged people over those that can't afford to pay for medicine? So the rich won't be able to buy 1000 Ferraries this year but will only be able to afford 998. Wow! What is the moral objection? Please do go on!


By Steve1981 on 8/11/2009 9:40:01 AM , Rating: 2
In an attempt to make this simple, given your disposition to introduce red herrings about the President's birth country, tax deductions for children, the Iraq war, etc...

You can basically sum up your argument with a few sentences:

quote:
What about the kid that was born with AIDS?


What about him/her? Does s/he have some unending right to forcibly leech off of society? Not in my opinion. S/he certainly can appeal to charity, but there is nothing just or good about forced charity.

quote:
Well, the point is instead of paying someone to save the money for you in an insurance found while they make money off of it, pay the medical provider directly.


And for a lot of things that makes sense: as I said previously, I see no reason that I need to pay an insurance company to pay my primary care doctor. It makes no fiscal sense. Insurance should be for unforeseen catastrophic events, where it is most effective, not for foreseeable items.

quote:
By doing so, they will make insurance companies compete or go out of business like they should.


Do you suppose it is possible for any private enterprise to fairly compete with a government sponsored entity?

quote:
What is the moral objection? Please do go on!


Theft is theft, regardless of the wealth of the victim. If that it outside your moral compass, I feel sorry for you.


By sigmatau on 8/11/2009 5:57:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
quote:
What about the kid that was born with AIDS?

What about him/her? Does s/he have some unending right to forcibly leech off of society? Not in my opinion. S/he certainly can appeal to charity, but there is nothing just or good about forced charity.


You are a fucking asshole. End of discussion.


By sigmatau on 8/11/2009 12:11:01 AM , Rating: 2
OH, and I'm waiting on the link that shows the cost of defensive medice. What was posted earlier is an article that describes $210 billion as "what some would call defensive medicine."

This is a loose estimate that was taken from one guest on a news broadcast that the press took and ran from it. Show me a study that gives us the correct number, if it is even close to $210 billion.

UNTIL THEN, you are backing talking points. Like I said.


By Steve1981 on 8/11/2009 9:44:46 AM , Rating: 2
The figure was from a study done by PricewaterhouseCoopers' Health Research Institute per CNN, not just a random talking head.


By retrospooty on 8/10/2009 10:23:41 AM , Rating: 1
"of course the Auto industry wouldn't be in the shape it is now if it weren't for all the Government interference in the industry of the last 50 years. "

Umm... I dont think the govt. mandated you make crappy cars that fall apart so that the public goes for foreign cars that are far more reliable. That was all the US auto industry's doing. In fact, it wasn't even an accident. They got together and decided that if you build a car that lasts 15 years, you lost a customer for 15 years, so they started to lapse in quality hoping to get a new sale every 5-10 years. this is why slowly over a few decades people went away from US built cars. On top of all that, the cost of unions is too high. they concentrated on high profit margiun SUV's and when the latest recession hit with price of gas spiking last summer it killed what was left.

The govt didnt do all that, the US auto makers did the worst damage to themselves.


By Spivonious on 8/10/2009 10:45:12 AM , Rating: 2
I agree but I'd like to point out that the quality of American cars (at least GM and Ford, don't know about Chrysler) has been fantastic for almost 10 years now.


By retrospooty on 8/10/2009 10:52:11 AM , Rating: 2
When will the resale value match that claim.

initial quality has improved, I will give you that - but take a 5 year old 100k mile US car vs a Honda, or Toyota and check then - not good, and the resale values tell the tale.


By joemoedee on 8/10/2009 11:48:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
When will the resale value match that claim.


When they decide to stop doing fleet sales, which I don't see happening anytime soon.


By Spivonious on 8/10/2009 12:47:44 PM , Rating: 2
Resale simply tells the popular opinion of the car, not the actual quality. Hondas and Toyotas were very reliable in the 90s, therefore they have high resale values now. It has no bearing on whether or not the 2000 models are very reliable.


By retrospooty on 8/10/2009 5:10:41 PM , Rating: 2
BS - quality means everything. I agree there is some amount of mindset due to poor quality in the 90's - but US cars still do not outlast thier Japanese counterparts. You will find it impossible to prove otherwise.


By Spuke on 8/10/2009 6:45:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
but US cars still do not outlast thier Japanese counterparts. You will find it impossible to prove otherwise.
It's not impossible to prove. JD Powers makes a living providing these statistics to the auto industry and these statistics are accepted and used by the auto industry. In initial and long term quality statistics, US automakers are right in there with everyone else. All that's left is perception, which is admittedly harder to change.


By Spuke on 8/10/2009 3:07:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
initial quality has improved, I will give you that
It's not just initial quality that has been improved but "long term" quality has as well. Check out JD Powers.


By 91TTZ on 8/10/2009 1:38:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
They got together and decided that if you build a car that lasts 15 years, you lost a customer for 15 years, so they started to lapse in quality hoping to get a new sale every 5-10 years.


Stop it with the lame conspiracy theories.


By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 9:48:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They're going to sell a hybrid that's about twice as expensive as the mature, established Prius

While true in a sense, I don't think the Volt will give the same "I'm from San Francisco and like the smell of my own farts" perception that the Prius gives.

quote:
they're going to sell cars on Ebay

While I don't think it'll be very successful at all because I wouldn't buy something that I am not physically standing next to, it does make some business sense. Try to reach a broader audience, give them the opportunity to buy on the spot, low cost due to little number of employees, and pretty much a fully automated system.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/10/2009 10:23:06 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
While true in a sense, I don't think the Volt will give the same "I'm from San Francisco and like the smell of my own farts" perception that the Prius gives.


Why do you care what someone thinks about what you are doing/driving if you're getting 50 mpg? If you want to drive a Prius, drive a Prius. If you want to drive an F-150, drive an F-150.

I doubt that either driver gives a crap what you think about what they drive, so why should you? :)


By mdogs444 on 8/10/2009 10:26:04 AM , Rating: 2
I personally could care less - I just don't want others telling me what to drive.

Not sure if you knew, but the San Francisco & smelling farts part was just for some laughs out of South Park.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/10/2009 10:39:53 AM , Rating: 2
I've seen the episode and got the reference. I'm just saying, people are too caught up in what other people are doing and what others think about them.

My personally philosophy is that I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want (within reason) and I don't really care what you think :)


By Spuke on 8/10/2009 3:16:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My personally philosophy is that I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want (within reason) and I don't really care what you think :)
Ding! Ding! Ding!


By FITCamaro on 8/10/2009 10:29:30 AM , Rating: 3
I'm sure there's plenty of Prius owners who look at people driving F-150s in disgust.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/10/2009 10:41:33 AM , Rating: 3
And vice versa.

I'm just saying, there's really no point in the disgust in either direction. What purpose does it serve?


By guacamojo on 8/10/2009 11:12:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
While I don't think it'll be very successful at all because I wouldn't buy something that I am not physically standing next to, it does make some business sense.


I can see this idea gaining some traction. My wife and I bought her last car (Toyota Highlander) via online sales. We had test-driven at our local dealer, so we knew what we wanted, including options. But the dealer was an ass. His price was ridiculous and he wouldn't answer emails in a timely fashion.

We ended up getting the exact car we wanted through another dealer's online sales department (part of fleet sales.) They emailed us pics of the car and a PDF of the vehicle sticker. The price was great, with no haggling required. We made an appointment for the test-drive, and spent a total of about an hour at the dealer.

It was the best dealer experience I've had. Still, it took time to find the right dealer. A central online site could streamline that part. If the eBay experience is anything like that, I would use it. (If I wanted a GM product, but that's another question...)


By JimboK29 on 8/10/2009 10:14:05 AM , Rating: 2
Threatcore.com picked up this story. GM's Ebay shop will probably backfire. Who would buy a car online without seeing it?


By retrospooty on 8/10/2009 10:16:51 AM , Rating: 2
I could see people going to a dealer, test driving the same model and buying one online, as long as its cheaper. Why not?

Used car, hell no - but a new car is all the same. You may or may not get a lemon, same for dealer or online delivery. I would assume your car will be picked up at a loacal dealer anyhow.


By joemoedee on 8/10/2009 11:52:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
GM's Ebay shop will probably backfire. Who would buy a car online without seeing it?


Plenty of people do. In fact, when I did Internet sales, I'd say probably 75% of those that bought the car through the online channel didn't want to test drive it. I'd practically have to force them to, mainly because I wanted them to make sure that everything was correct on the vehicle.

GM is just taking the Internet Vehicle sales concept and expanding it. Most, if not all, dealers have Internet Sales Departments either running through their website, the manufacturer's website, or through a third party (Ie, Carsdirect, Autotrader, etc.).

Using Ebay will give some uniformity across the line, and I don't see it doing anything but helping their sales.


By 67STANG on 8/10/2009 12:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
GM's cars on Ebay?

I've got two words to describe those auctions: No Reserve


By VultureTX on 8/10/2009 10:33:20 AM , Rating: 2
They have assembly lines , they have the parts, they have custom runs. So far they only offer little (1 or 2) order your x car like this), instead of it being a standard.

Sure it may take two weeks, but would you not want a car specifically built for your usage? Why must car buyers go through all the aftermarket suppliers just to get their street vehicle? Quarter panels of different colors, bumpers, different rims, tire, engines even(at least different performance tunings).

Or does this lead back to over paid UAW workers who can't do anything besides a repetitive non varying task?




By guacamojo on 8/10/2009 11:51:43 AM , Rating: 2
Um, you can order your car custom-built (usually called a special order) from the factory, at least for some makes. It takes more than 2 weeks, though. More like 6. (foreign takes longer, because of the shipping.)

That's been the case from U.S. makers for a long time. And some european car makers offer vacation packages where you can pick up your custom-built car at the factory, drive around in Europe for a while, and they'll ship the car to you when you return home. That seems like fun, if you've got the time and money.

I've not heard of any Japanese manufacturers doing that. They don't offer special orders as far as I know.

But still, I think a lot of people would rather not wait for a custom-built car if there's one on the lot (or available locally) that's "close enough" and they can have it sooner.


By Spuke on 8/10/2009 3:19:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've not heard of any Japanese manufacturers doing that. They don't offer special orders as far as I know.
I know Toyota and Nissan do.


By Lazarus Dark on 8/10/2009 7:37:54 PM , Rating: 2
My wife ordered her 2009 Honda Fit at the height of its selling back last fall. She wanted orange so she had to custom order it straight from Japan through the dealer. That said though, the Fit only had two real options anyway: the Sport package (which she got) and the Nav unit(which she didn't). It took about a month for delivery.

Then in February I had to custom order my Dodge Challenger R/T because I wanted a black 6 speed manual with zero options (all the available ones were white or had ten thousand bucks in options I didn't care about and couldn't afford). Normally this would take 6 weeks for delivery, but they had several plant shutdowns and it took almost four months to take delivery.

I have always wondered why I couldn't skip the middle man and just order a car straight from the manufacturer. I had no idea it was illegal for them to sell direct. I have no idea why? It's a stupid law whatever it is. I would have loved to save the several grand I basically gave the dealership just for pressing a couple buttons on their computer screen to order the Challenger.


You always hear about the UAW
By SublimeSimplicity on 8/10/2009 9:54:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
He states, "There is no model which can legally permit automobile companies to sell directly to the customer. That’s just prohibited by law in almost all states."


Sounds like the auto dealer network invests a lot of money in lobbying state government officials. You always hear about the UAW holding GM down, but their dealer networks aren't helping.

Why on earth are auto sales by law singled out to require a middle man?




RE: You always hear about the UAW
By 91TTZ on 8/10/2009 9:58:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why on earth are auto sales by law singled out to require a middle man?


I was wondering the same thing. It's ridiculous.


By thrill on 8/10/2009 10:59:12 AM , Rating: 2
Selling one a day without a reserve would be market feedback worth every penny of loss.




By guacamojo on 8/10/2009 12:13:49 PM , Rating: 2
Right on!

This idea seems like it'd be worth a hell of a lot more than all the high-priced expert analysis these companies pay for. Even at one a week, it seems like it'd be excellent data for the planners.

Where's Marketing? They've got the budget for this. Hell, they can give away a car to everyone in Oprah's show audience...


ROFLMAO!
By djcameron on 8/10/2009 11:01:24 AM , Rating: 2
ROFLMAO! Maybe they should try Swoopo.




All I have to say is:
By acase on 8/10/2009 11:40:46 AM , Rating: 2
GM + PayPal = EPIC FAIL




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