backtop

Print E-mail del.icio.us 53 comment(s) - last by Oregonian2.. on Mar 6 at 7:41 PM

Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid will receive the upgraded BAS system  (Source: General Motors)
GM refines its hybrid powetrains

Over the past two weeks, we saw the unveiling of two mild hybrid powertrains for sport utility vehicles: one from BMW and one from Mercedes-Benz. The two German auto makers worked together on the hybrid powertrain and both hooked the system up to small, four-cylinder turbo-diesel engines.

General Motors introduced its first mild-hybrid belt-alternator-starter (BAS) system over two years ago and it is now ready to bring out its second generation unit. While the Germans decided to pair their mild hybrid systems with diesel motors, GM system will instead be paired with cheaper gasoline engines.

GM says that its second generation mild hybrid system now employs a lithium-ion battery which is nearly three times as powerful as the previous generation's nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery. The battery is also smaller which could allow the system to be used in smaller vehicles like the Saturn Astra and Chevrolet Aveo.

GM promises a 20% fuel economy improvement over non-hybrid versions of the same vehicle with its latest hybrid system.

"This new system is another important step in our broad-based strategy to reduce vehicle fuel consumption and emissions," said GM Chairman Rick Wagoner at the Geneva Auto Show.

"In order to have a real impact in reducing oil consumption, oil imports, and CO2 emissions, advanced technologies must be affordable enough to drive high-volume applications," Wagoner continues. "We plan to roll out this next-generation hybrid technology globally, across our brands and regions, starting in 2010 in North America, and we expect that volumes will eventually exceed 100,000 units annually."

GM's first generation mild hybrid system is currently used on the Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid, Saturn Aura Green Line and Saturn Vue Green Line. The company's more efficient, two-mode hybrid system is used in the Chevy Tahoe Hybrid, GMC Yukon Hybrid as well as the upcoming Cadillac Escalade Hybrid.

GM's commitment to hybrid vehicles is sure to pay off as the company expects to have eight hybrid models on the market by the end of the year and 16 more over the next four years.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
So....
By clovell on 3/5/2008 1:15:26 PM , Rating: 2
> General Motors introduced its first mild-hybrid belt-alternator-starter (BAS) system...

How does it work?




RE: So....
By DigitalFreak on 3/5/2008 1:19:38 PM , Rating: 2
I'm confused about this as well. Is it a true hybrid system like the Prius, or another faux hybrid where it just shuts the engine off at stop lights and such?


RE: So....
By pauldovi on 3/5/2008 1:21:25 PM , Rating: 2
Well in order to shut off the engine at a light you need to have some sort of electrical motor to provide temporary power.


RE: So....
By oab on 3/5/2008 1:23:42 PM , Rating: 2
You don't need a motor to apply temporary power to the accessories, because you have batteries, and the new one has bigger higher-capacity ones that take up less space.


RE: So....
By pauldovi on 3/5/2008 1:26:25 PM , Rating: 2
I was referring to starting the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) in a hurry.


RE: So....
By oab on 3/5/2008 1:22:21 PM , Rating: 2
It would be a mild hybrid, but one that has it's batteries store more power so that when you are stopped at a stoplight, the engine might not need to come on to keep the car running if you're using the AC or something as often with the new system, than the old.

However, this is just a "fake" solution, compared to a proper "hybrid" like the Volt.


RE: So....
By CheesePoofs on 3/5/2008 1:54:21 PM , Rating: 3
Well technically the Volt isn't a hybrid ... it's all electric.


RE: So....
By Spuke on 3/5/2008 1:58:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well technically the Volt isn't a hybrid ... it's all electric.
The Volt can be setup as a hybrid.


RE: So....
By GreenEnvt on 3/5/2008 9:20:25 PM , Rating: 2
Well not really, it can only be powered by electic engines. There is no provision to have an ICE turn the wheels.
The ICE will only charge the batteries.


RE: So....
By Alexvrb on 3/5/2008 9:54:14 PM , Rating: 2
Technically you're both wrong. Yes, the wheels are only driven by an electric motor. However, since it has an ICE for power generation during extended operation, it is a "serial hybrid". Not a mild hybrid, not a one- or two-mode hybrid. A serial hybrid.
http://www.hybrid-vehicle.org/serial-hybrid.html

IF they yanked out the ICE and made it plug-in only (hopefully with more batteries to make range useful) it would be a pure electric. I personally like it a lot better the way it is, since I can still just gas it up and go. ;)


RE: So....
By Samus on 3/6/2008 1:44:31 AM , Rating: 2
What Alex said.

The Volt is an electric-powered car. The electricity just happens to come from fossil fuels ;)


RE: So....
By Oregonian2 on 3/6/2008 7:41:24 PM , Rating: 2
Which is a likely thing anyway even if batteries are charge by plugging it in at home. At least in significant portion anyway.


RE: So....
By oab on 3/5/2008 1:20:30 PM , Rating: 2
Basically the car has a bigger starter motor (faster startup at the expense of more power), and when it's stopped the engine is turned off it runs on battery power. When it's time to accelerate, the starter re-starts the engine and you resume driving.

It also has regenerative braking to re-charge the batteries as you brake iirc so that there is less dependency on the alternator to keep it charged.

It's not all that great, but if you're stuck on the highway in stop and go it saves gas when you're stopped. It does not have an electric motor to power the car at low speeds, which is why it's a "mild" hybrid.


RE: So....
By DigitalFreak on 3/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: So....
By pauldovi on 3/5/2008 1:32:13 PM , Rating: 5
If it delivers 20% more efficiency, then it accomplishes the same goal as Toyota's hybrid.


RE: So....
By Spuke on 3/5/2008 2:46:39 PM , Rating: 3
20% is pretty awesome if you ask me.


RE: So....
By jskirwin on 3/5/2008 4:22:49 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
20% is pretty awesome if you ask me.


Couldn't you achieve that by buying the manual transmission version of the car instead of an automatic?


RE: So....
By Hoser McMoose on 3/5/2008 10:00:17 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Couldn't you achieve that by buying the manual transmission version of the car instead of an automatic?

Not anymore. With lock-up automatic transmissions the amount of power lost through your torque converter is significantly less than it used to be. Given different gearing and a bit of smarts in the ECU and transmission many automatics now actually get better fuel economy then their manual counterparts.

Doesn't make up for the fact that most automatics still suck-ass in terms of driving feel, but at least the fuel economy hit isn't much of an issue anymore.


RE: So....
By Steve Guilliot on 3/5/2008 10:04:49 PM , Rating: 2
No, manual transmissions don't get you a 20% improvment. Usually just a couple mpg's.


RE: So....
By Alexstarfire on 3/5/2008 8:47:22 PM , Rating: 2
20% of 15MPG makes it only 21MPG. It's better, but it's still crap. Course, that's just an example. It's likely higher than that, but still no where near cars like the Prius.


RE: So....
By Spuke on 3/5/2008 9:13:37 PM , Rating: 3
The current Malibu Hybrid gets 24/32 so 20% increase would be 29/38. I'll take it.


RE: So....
By Steve Guilliot on 3/5/2008 10:07:29 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Figure out how much you would spend on gas in a year, and cut that by 20%. It's real money.

Also, mild hyrbids usually cost only a relatively small premium over traditional power, and maintain the feel of a "regular" car.


RE: So....
By Chernobyl68 on 3/6/2008 12:01:04 PM , Rating: 3
The prius gets the majority of its fuel efficiency from is light weight and small size. If you just wanted fuel efficiency you could have gotten a 50mpg Geo Metro (with a 3 cylinder engine) back in the 90s or a 35mpg Renault Alliance (with a 1.4L 4 cylinder) back in the 80s.
Smaller, lighter cars will always be more fuel efficient. Personally, I'm more interested in the gains that can be made with normal sized cars (4-door sedan) than compacts and subcompacts.


RE: So....
By Mitch101 on 3/5/2008 4:54:50 PM , Rating: 2
Make it Bio-Diesel and allow me to purchase bio-diesel at my local pump and I will spend the extra to get it.

Either way get me off fossil fuels.


RE: So....
By DigitalFreak on 3/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: So....
By rudy on 3/5/2008 1:44:29 PM , Rating: 2
It could be pretty useful for those who live in large cities with bad traffic. Depends on the cost associated with adding this feature.


RE: So....
By Spuke on 3/5/2008 2:21:56 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
LOL. Shouldn't even be called a hybrid then.
The point here is to get people into more fuel efficient cars without breaking their bank accounts. Not everyone has the benefit of living in Mom's basement.


RE: So....
By radams on 3/5/2008 6:14:12 PM , Rating: 1
You're little dig would make more sense if any of these GM cars were significantly cheaper than the Prius. They're not.


RE: So....
By DigitalFreak on 3/5/2008 7:54:30 PM , Rating: 1
Bingo!


RE: So....
By Alexvrb on 3/5/2008 10:06:18 PM , Rating: 2
That's just as bad as comparing a 4 cylinder Camry to a Prius. The price may be similar, and the Camry may not get the mileage, but the Camry is 1) not a complete dog, and 2) bigger and nicer. They're not the same vehicle.


RE: So....
By Spuke on 3/6/2008 12:53:27 AM , Rating: 2
Bingo!! The Malibu and the Prius are not in the same class of cars. People won't be cross shopping those two cars. Malibu Hybrid shoppers are going to be people that want a regular looking car with better gas mileage than the normal Malibu. My bro-in-law and a co-worker own a Camry Hybrid's and neither considered a Prius. They were looking for standard sedans with better gas mileage.


RE: So....
By jbartabas on 3/5/2008 3:46:19 PM , Rating: 1
This is why it's called a mild hybrid, it's a usual denomination. And yes, GM is trying to jump on the green bandwagon.


Sweet!
By Carter642 on 3/5/2008 4:21:42 PM , Rating: 2
Good for GM. It's good to see more hybrids on the market.

I'm hoping that maybe they'll offer hybrids on the less than top of the heap models. I remember the old CRX's that got 50mpg and they wern't hybrids, they were just light cars with a tiny engine.

Anyone ever wonder what a Prius might get if you really set about lightening the car? After all the prius weighs 400lbs more than a Corolla and about 50lbs less than a Camry.

Hint to hybrid makers: Colin Chapman was right! Performance through light weight! (applies to MPG too!)




RE: Sweet!
By Alexstarfire on 3/5/2008 8:51:05 PM , Rating: 2
If you've ever looked at the weight of the batteries alone you'd know that it'd be hard as hell to make it much lighter without going into exotic materials and striping out features, both safety and luxury.


RE: Sweet!
By Spuke on 3/6/2008 12:55:39 AM , Rating: 2
With the new 35mpg CAFE coming up, expect to see those exotic materials in a car near you with a sticker price to match. I'm hearing carbon fiber and aluminum thrown around a bit.


RE: Sweet!
By Carter642 on 3/6/2008 11:54:08 AM , Rating: 2
Actually the Prius battery weighs in at 45Kg, less than a single adult passenger.

What's really at issue here is that the Prius is really sitting at the top of Toyota's small car lineup. Thus it gets every luxury feature that toyota can pack into it. More sound deadening, CD changer, AC, satnav, that cool display in the middle, CVT transmission, leather, 8 speaker surround etc.. This all adds up to far more than the weight of the batteries.

I'd just like to see a 'Prius Basic' model with the bare bones options: power windows and locks, AM/FM cassette, 5spd, AC optional. That would be a really efficient car.


BAS is the way to go
By skiboysteve on 3/5/2008 8:07:09 PM , Rating: 2
Ive actually been working on a vehicle for the past six months for a university research project. we took the BAS out of a saturn vue green line as well as their 36V NiMH battery and put it in because it rocks so hard.

the BAS is connected with a belt to the engine (hence: belt alternator starter)

It is a steal, seriously. Basically with a simple battery and a BAS you get the ability to
1) turn off the engine when stopped, coasting, any time the engine isnt loaded and re-crank it near instantly when needed
2) provide mild motor assistance while cruising or accelerating (this is at higher efficiency than the engine, so fuel savings)
3) regenerative braking
4) completely remove the standard alternator. the BAS can be placed into alternator mode and charge the batteries whenever they are low. this is much more efficient because with regenerative braking, a standard alternator doesn't make sense

all this for a simple small BAS and battery! incredibly cost effective & simple fuel savings

the 36V battery is actually pretty large, so this sounds like a great improvement. although i'd be very surprised if the thing isnt greatly changed beyond just the battery




RE: BAS is the way to go
By Alexstarfire on 3/5/2008 8:53:03 PM , Rating: 2
In theory, yes. The problem with using a belt though is that it wears out. It's better than nothing I guess.


C'mon GM
By MKct on 3/6/2008 1:31:48 AM , Rating: 2
GM's current hybrid Malibu only offers a 2 MPG increase over its 4 cylinder counterpart (22/30 vs. 24/32)at an almost $3K premium. GM really dropped the ball when it came to hybrids, IMHO. I get similar or better mileage on my '05 Accord! Offer some hybrids with mpg numbers competitive with the foreign auto makers and I'll be impressed. It seems to me that GM's hybrids are more of a marketing gimmick than an actual attempt at some serious hybrid technology. It's not like the writing hasn't been on the wall, ever since I was of age to drive (mid 90's) gas prices have done nothing but go up. I still find it amazing that GM had the know how to produce a road-worthy full eletric car in the early 90's with the EV1, yet here I am reading an article that their 2nd gen "mild" hybrid won't be available until 2010!! And we'll be lucky if we see the Volt by then as well. It's really a shame that the American car makers are just now getting serious about hybrids and "greener" vehicles in the country that arguably needs them the most. Frankly, we should have seen American vehicles with this technology years ago.




RE: C'mon GM
By tallcool1 on 3/6/2008 12:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
GM was definately ahead of the game with the EV1, too bad they killed that electric car back then. I would consider one for just commuting back and forth to work. Anything to reduce dependancy on oil from the Middle East.


If I'm not mistaken
By A5un on 3/5/2008 1:39:35 PM , Rating: 1
majority of engine wear occurs when the engine is started. That's mostly due to the fact that engine oil has all dripped into the pan and the pump is just not strong enough to delivery right when the starting of the engine occur. Now, if that's correct, I wonder how long these engines will last...
I mean this car is certainly not the first car that've used this scheme, but so far I've not heard anything about these types of engine eating itself away in 2 years. But then again, I don't go out of my way to look for these information either...




RE: If I'm not mistaken
By OrSin on 3/5/2008 2:35:18 PM , Rating: 2
The starting wear is from a cold engine. If the engine stops for 5 minutes the oil is still on most of the parts.
Stop and starting is not a big deal.


Wheres the hybrid
By pomaikai on 3/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Wheres the hybrid
By Spuke on 3/5/2008 2:44:30 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone remember anything past yesterday? This is the SECOND generation for this system. This is nothing new.


I always though
By Xodus Maximus on 3/5/2008 1:22:33 PM , Rating: 1
NiMH batteries were more powerful (more milliamp hours for same mass) and recharged faster than Li-Ion. When did this change, or was this true only on small sized batteries like AA?

Oh and don't Li-Ion batteries explode when they over-heat from over-use? wouldn't this be a bad idea to have in a car over a multi day road trip, Im just saying, I really don't know, but to me it sounds like a bad idea...




If you want to save the Earth....
By pauldovi on 3/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: If you want to save the Earth....
By oab on 3/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: If you want to save the Earth....
By pauldovi on 3/5/08, Rating: 0
By A5un on 3/5/2008 1:43:27 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly!

So when people say they're buying a Prius to be green, I just laugh. Wasn't there a study that compared total average engery spent on the average vehicle life span (from production to end of car's life) for regular SUV's and the Prius? And I think they ended up being the same...So, just how green are you when you drive a Prius.


RE: If you want to save the Earth....
By ElFenix on 3/5/2008 1:32:32 PM , Rating: 4
the report that started the crap you've just spewed here has been widely debunked, starting with the base assumption in the report that the hummer would stay on the roads 3x longer than the prius they compared it to.


RE: If you want to save the Earth....
By AlphaVirus on 3/5/2008 3:21:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
has been widely debunked, starting with the base assumption in the report

Hasnt anyone ever told you what assuming does?

And how can we put full backing towards studies that are assuming, where clearly they can do the footwork to find solid answers.

quote:
the hummer would stay on the roads 3x longer than the prius they compared it to.

Not trying to start a debate...but how did they come to this claim?


RE: If you want to save the Earth....
By Alexstarfire on 3/5/2008 8:56:25 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. You're guess is as good as anyone elses. Could have gotten the mileage for the Prius off the warranty for the battery, but then it makes you wonder about the Hummer because I know it doesn't have a 300,000 miles warranty on it.


By Spuke on 3/6/2008 1:02:05 AM , Rating: 2
There's more to the Prius than just the battery. It does still have a engine which breaks and needs repairs. Unless you are good with your cars, don't expect even a Prius to last 300k miles. And please don't post links to that one guy with 300k or more miles. I can find people that do that on ANY car. Your typical person just doesn't put that much care into their cars.


"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer

DailyTech Poll
Which web browser do you use on your primary personal machine? 






44 Comments









botimage
Copyright 2009 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki