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The Think 4-Door Concept, shown here, might eventually find its way to America as well.  (Source: Think Global)

The petite Think Electric car is coming to America next year, thanks to General Electric, A123 Batteries, and Think Global.  (Source: Think Global)

GE is retrofitting buses with ultracapacitors and sodium-metal chloride batteries to test out these lithium-ion alternatives.  (Source: CNET)

GE invented one of the first electric car models, seen here, in 1914.  (Source: CNET)
GE is partnering with Chrysler, A123, and Think Global; Is launching a 50,000 unit electric car in 2009 with partners

Electric cars are perhaps the hottest item in the car industry.  While Ford remains uninterested in deploying an electric car, the other two major U.S. automakers, General Motors and Chrysler both have large electric car projects set to commercialize in 2010.  GM's hopes in particular are riding heavily on its electric car program, with the Chevy Volt becoming the crux of its advertising campaigns.  While there have been some slight hiccups, such as the missteps of Tesla Motors, few can disagree that even amid a weak economy the plug-in business is booming.

If there's one component most critical to electric cars' performance and success, it would have to be the batteries.  The batteries determine the weight, the electric-only mileage, and most importantly the cost of electric cars.  Better batteries will make a better electric car.  For that reason tech giant General Electric (GE) is betting heavily on electric cars and battery technologies.

GE has aggressively invested in an attempt to position itself as the clear battery leader.  It invested in A123 batteries, one of the two startups that is competing for the Chevy Volt battery contract.  With a $30M USD second round of investment in A123, GE cemented its relationship and controlling position over the startup and with it increased its position in the battery industry.

It also invested in A123 partner Think Global, which is debuting a small plug-in car in 2009: the Think Electric town car.  The little car, available in limited quantities resembles a Smart Car ForTwo in styling and size.  It will surely be a hot seller, if it’s able to meet its release date, beating the Chevy Volt to the market.  GE is working with its two partners to develop the vehicle.  Think Global plans to ship 50,000 units to North America in 2009 which will retail for $30,000 without tax credits.  The car has a top speed of 65 MPH and can go 110 miles on a charge.

Mark Little, senior vice president and director of GE Global Research, says the new battery efforts follow closely with GE's Ecomagination initiative which seeks to cut carbon dioxide emissions, and conserve water and fossil fuels.  The program is expected to grow 21 percent this year, with revenue reaching $17B USD.  GE is planning on rolling this money back into its R&D efforts, increasing these expenditures by $1.4B USD.

Mr. Little praised electric cars, saying that they will lead to lower energy prices and smaller carbon footprints.  He states, "My own view is that even if 5 to 10 percent of vehicles become electrified, that's a huge opportunity."

He is championing another key battery effort, which sees GE partnering with Chrysler on a Department of Energy-sponsored research project.  The new project will explore designing better batteries for passenger cars.  The details of the project are still being arranged.

Another important effort is GE's research into adapting sodium-metal chloride batteries to automobiles.  This type of batteries are used in trains and could offer lower prices and higher efficiencies if optimized.  It is also experimenting with using ultra-capacitors as a battery alternative.

GE also has ongoing projects to develop large-scale power utility battery storage.  If can do this, it would be a great help to some forms of inconsistent alternative energy, such as solar PV or wind power.  Its ultimate goal is to provide the grid with several hours of storage capacity nation-wide.

Perhaps it’s unsurprising GE is looking to lead the industry in battery efforts -- after all, one of its engineers built one of the first electric cars, built in 1914. 

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Sticker price
By Spivonious on 10/30/2008 9:45:08 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The car has a top speed of 65 MPH and can go 110 miles on a charge.


That's not very much for $30,000. You could buy a Chevy Aveo for $12,000 and get a higher top speed and a longer "per tank" range.

Let's say you drive around the town for 10 miles each day. Aveo gets about 30mpg, so that's 1/3 gallon per day. Let's say gas prices go crazy and get up to $5 per gallon. Each day of driving will cost you $1.67.

Let's also assume electricity is free.

It will still take you 10,778 days to break even. That's almost 30 years!! It's no wonder GM is hemmorhaging money these days.




RE: Sticker price
By Aloonatic on 10/30/2008 10:05:46 AM , Rating: 2
Those sort of calculations always put a damper on things but I guess that pure economy is not the main reason why many people will by these cars.

In saying that...

...If you live in a country like the UK where many councils and Mayors are itching to follow London's example and bring in congestion charges (to save the planet and make our lives easier as we travel through these busy city centres being blocked by others in traffic jams because they just love to block the roads and be held up of course, they aren't there because they have to be too and it's not just revenue raising) which start at £8 a day (at the moment) when driving a polar bear hating petrol or diesel car, then the savings for electric or hybrid cars that don't have to pay this are pretty substantial.

I'm not sure if similar "charges" (not a tax, it's a different word with different letters and everything, see??) are levied in the US or other countries?

A fair few people drive those Gee-Wiz cars in London now, and there are special small parking bays that they will fit, some of which even have recharge points.

Of course, that is until a lot of people start to do it, congestion is no lower and there is a hole growing in the town/cities finances faster than the hole in the Ozone layer during the 80s and some other excuse is made to take your money.

Anyone have any idea how long the batteries last by the way?

Those savings may be soon be eaten up by replacements and such?


RE: Sticker price
By quiksilvr on 10/30/2008 11:11:03 AM , Rating: 2
If done right, Lithium Ion batteries can last a LONG time:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

On top of that, there is talk of Lithium Ion NANOWIRE batteries, which have 5+ times the energy density than regular Lithium Ion batteries.


RE: Sticker price
By Jedi2155 on 10/30/2008 4:36:58 PM , Rating: 2
To expand on that, it depends on the chemistry of the lithium pack.

The current one popular for automotive applications are the lithium iron phosphate batteries which have been demonstrated to have between 4000-7000 recharge cycles. For the Chevy volt, this means its about 150k miles.


RE: Sticker price
By Raidin on 10/30/2008 10:14:57 AM , Rating: 2
What do you expect? It's a new technology with very little market presence, which means high production costs. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Look at the Volt. It's expected to be around $40K, and only have a range of 40 miles on battery power (even considering the carbon nanotube upgrade, to 80 miles). This makes the Think look like a bargain, which it is, because you're comparing things on a realistic level.

If all you care about is a car to go from here to there, then any hybrid or electric car is going to be pointless for you, unless you plan to keep the car long enough to reap the savings.

Look at Sony's OLED display. It's 11" but it costs around $2,500. No one compares it to other displays like LCDs and plasmas and goes "wow, what a rip off!" , because it's new technology that's still in its market and production infancy.


RE: Sticker price
By Ringold on 10/31/2008 12:34:36 AM , Rating: 2
I don't see how a comparison to the Volt is apples to apples either, or a "realistic level." Look at this tiny little thing. This is comparing apples to an apple slice. IMHO, the extra functionality of the Volt makes the Volt a far better value.


RE: Sticker price
By Raidin on 10/31/2008 12:15:31 PM , Rating: 2
Because the volt is an electric car just as the Think, so they can be compared, apples to apples, in terms of performance. But you can't compare a gas car to an electric car that's still in it's technological infancy, on an equal level.

If we have refined electrical power for cars as long as we have petrol fuel cars, then it would make sense. That's what I meant by a realistic level. You can't just ignore that electrical power for cars is still new and unrefined.


RE: Sticker price
By Ringold on 10/31/2008 4:09:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Think, so they can be compared, apples to apples, in terms of performance.


Okay... An F-250 is an ICE-powered vehicle, and so is a Civic. Do you see how the comparison becomes futile? Yes, same technology, but vastly different sizes.

I agree that direct comparison with ICE and electric vehicles can't be perfectly done and all that, I'm just arguing over the comparison to the Volt, the larger vehicle. Sure, these will get better and cheaper as companies discover new tricks in how to mass produce these kinds of batteries.


RE: Sticker price
By JoshuaBuss on 10/31/2008 5:01:23 PM , Rating: 2
the point is that comparing an F-250 to a Civic on the basis of their technology and value makes infinitely more sense than comparing either to these electric cars right now.


RE: Sticker price
By Raidin on 10/31/2008 5:24:50 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. The difference between the Volt's 40-mile range and the Think's 110-mile range is quite large, but that has to take into account their weights, aerodynamics, motors, batteries, etc.

These are obvious, because they apply to any vehicle using the same propulsion technology, which is why they need not be mentioned specifically.


RE: Sticker price
By Ringold on 10/31/2008 11:13:32 PM , Rating: 3
You guys still seem to be looking at technology or something, but I'm still on value. For 10k more, the Volt, with similar technology, is larger, probably more comfortable in every way possible, can actually carry some cargo, and seat a bunch of big people in comfort. And for most people on most days, it can be 100% electric.

For 10k less than the Volt, you get a tiny golf-cart with nice range but almost nothing else. You said it was a bargain, and I'd agree... if you think golf carts are hot. Otherwise.. I'd take a Volt long before this dingy thing, and they're both just electric cars.


RE: Sticker price
By JoshuaBuss on 11/1/2008 1:59:24 PM , Rating: 2
i agree with you on that point, but you made it sound like comparing two different vehicles based on the same technology was pointless with your F-250 / civic argument, and that's where i disagree.


RE: Sticker price
By inighthawki on 10/30/2008 10:23:48 AM , Rating: 1
1. It;s new technology. It will cost more to make, and more to buy

2. People buy it BECAUSE it's an electric car, cost really isn't the point when comparing electric vs gas cars

3. Depending on how you want to take the argument, it's cleaner, producing no pollution

Whether these three things make the car worth it in your mind or not, it does for some people. Also keep in mind, eventually gas will run out or cost a lot more. Then the people with these cars have the upper hand because its "free" compared to $10 a gallon for gas, etc


RE: Sticker price
By Raidin on 10/30/2008 10:37:49 AM , Rating: 2
Amen.

OPEC has cut production to try and stabilize the cost of oil, since there are fewer buyers now. The whole point of an oil cartel is to make sure the members make as much profit as they want without any competition driving prices down.

OPEC will continue managing how much oil they produce as the reserves dwindle, so one way or another, prices will go up in the long term.

This is why we need cars like this, regardless of price. If they succeed, even only in a niche market of wealthy individuals who like to adopt new tech or want to be more eco-friendly, they will end up driving the industry forward and make way for new models, which will perform better and cost less.


RE: Sticker price
By FITCamaro on 10/30/2008 12:50:59 PM , Rating: 5
It's also why we need to start drilling for ourselves. Then we don't have to worry as much about what hostile foreign governments are doing regarding oil production.


RE: Sticker price
By Aloonatic on 10/30/08, Rating: 0
RE: Sticker price
By FITCamaro on 10/30/2008 1:42:45 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
How much oil is there under America or off America's shore by the way?


Many estimates say more oil than in the entire Middle East when all sources are considered.