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For netbook users, slow browsers can kill battery life -- one of several compelling arguments FutureMark's president gives about why users should care about speed and potentially ditch slower browsers like Internet Explorer 8.  (Source: Flickr)
Futuremark's president answers a compelling question -- why should we care how fast our browser is

DailyTech's interview with Oliver Baltuch introduced readers to Futuremark's new web benchmarking suite.  The suite promises to bring the benchmarking goodness of 3DMark to the web and truly lay to rest the question of who is fastest in a market where every browser maker claims to be the speed king.  The first part of the interview touched on many controversial conclusions -- Windows 7 browsing faster than Vista, OS X browsing faster than Windows, and the speed title being jointly held by Apple's Safari and Google's Chrome.

In the reader responses to the last segment, a number of good points were raised.  One reader noted that no benchmark is 100 percent conclusive -- every benchmark has its biases.  This is certainly true.  Still other readers pointed out that just because Chrome and Safari may be faster in pure speed, but that speed alone doesn't necessarily equate to a better browsing experience.  Security and an optimal interface are arguably equally or more valuable to the customer than speed.  Even Mr. Baltuch, acknowledged this, informally, in his admission that he uses Opera 10.0 beta 2 -- not the very fastest browser, but a very user friendly one -- for his daily browsing.

However, that returns to the key question which a large number of the readers asked in one form or another -- "Why should I care about browser speed?"  Mr. Baltuch offers a very compelling argument as to just why home and business users should care.

For businesses Mr. Baltuch states, "Using a slower browser could cause your employees to lose up to 15 minutes per day due to page lag.  In a company with 5,000 people, that's what -- 1,250 hours?"

He goes on to point out that the cost of hiring 3 or 4 extra IT people (72-96 hours of effort) to support the extra security and management needed for a faster, but less manageable browser like Firefox or Opera, by far outweighs the losses of inaction in terms of employee compensation and power use.  He says there's simply no justification for businesses sticking to slower browsers like Internet Explorer 6, Internet Explorer 7, or even Internet Explorer 8 -- just because they are easier to manage. 

He points out that at a large organization like the U.S. State Department, with over 50,000 employees (which recently rejected Firefox) could be saving 12,500 hours a day.  He states, "The average state department employee is making, around $50 an hour -- that's $625,000 a day lost."

For home users he says the argument for speed is particularly compelling on laptops, netbooks, and older computers.  Faster loads means less power consumed, typically.  On a netbook or older computer, both of which typically have slower processors, slower browsers perform particularly badly he says. They waste time and, in the netbook's case, battery life.  On faster computers, speed is certainly less of a real issue -- but many enthusiasts prefer the idea of having all their software be as optimized as possible.

At the end of the day the conclusion seems to be this -- while it's intriguing to see who has the fastest browser, users should base their decision on a combination of four key factors -- speed, security, user interface, and compatibility.  Taking these additional factors into account both helps and hurts some browsers. For example, Internet Explorer 8 is already hurting from being declared the slowest of the leading browsers and falls behind on compatibility, but it gains on security and it arguably breaks even on interface.  For others browsers -- Firefox and Opera, chiefly -- these additional factors lead to the conclusion that while they may not be the fastest browser, their combination of speed and other assets make them possibly the best browsers. 



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But IE 8.0 is more secure
By linker on 8/11/2009 2:53:54 PM , Rating: 4
you can laugh about it, but my own experience is that i could catch malware surfing with chrome, but IE 8.0 saved me on those very same sites

how is that for time saving.....
this MS bashing which became so poular is really tiresome (and yes, some browsers are faster, but not when you do real surfing, and IE is ... more secure)




RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By invidious on 8/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By linker on 8/11/2009 3:17:26 PM , Rating: 5
What a shame you have replied....

really, a shame

i program for a living, and my GirlFriend while surfing, got an idiotic link from a friend of hers, which she happily clicked.... i took me a lot of time to remove the virus, and then knowing the things i do, i checked that same site with IE 8.0 and lo and behold... MS got it right, and blocked the attack

btw, ... oh forget it, comments like yours make me sick


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Guspaz on 8/11/09, Rating: 0
RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By linker on 8/11/2009 3:44:05 PM , Rating: 2
just so you know chrome does NOT(!)sandbox plugins (you can check it for yourself, don't take my word for it)


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By TomZ on 8/11/2009 3:45:04 PM , Rating: 5
IE8/Microsoft also maintains a black list of web sites that are known to host harmful content. You have overlooked the fact that IE8 may have spoiled the attack using that particular feature.

I really like your attempts to blame the user for the exploit, based on your 2 possible explanations. And I especially like the implication you made that the OP knew about an exploit and didn't report it.

Maybe you should think before you post.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Lord 666 on 8/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By linker on 8/11/2009 4:14:54 PM , Rating: 2
may you live a 1000 years....


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By SilthDraeth on 8/11/2009 4:16:33 PM , Rating: 2
I know it is wrong, but I LOLed.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Cerin218 on 8/11/2009 5:45:23 PM , Rating: 1
So you advocate the computer be smarter then the user. Yet we think Skynet is a pipe dream. We will create computers that will realize they really are smarter then us. Maybe your right, maybe my computer should keep me from doing something stupid. Too bad enough people don't use the computer between their ears.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By MadMan007 on 8/12/2009 2:13:10 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry but I've got to...

'Maybe YOU'RE</r> right' - a grammatical error that might have been caught by a computer running a spelling and grammar checker.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By MadMan007 on 8/12/2009 2:13:35 AM , Rating: 2
lol messed up the tagging for the bold, oh well.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Cerin218 on 8/12/09, Rating: 0
RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Cerin218 on 8/11/09, Rating: 0
RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Belard on 8/11/2009 11:35:37 PM , Rating: 2
That's not saying much...

How many people in the USA think the Earth is still flat?

For most humans, computers are magical boxes.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By ebakke on 8/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By linker on 8/11/2009 7:37:29 PM , Rating: 5
i am sorry if i hurt your feelings
i know we can't all have girlfriends who know computers
or in your case i would guess any kind of girlfriend

go hug your keyboard, i am sure it "loves" you


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By ebakke on 8/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Smilin on 8/12/2009 5:27:02 PM , Rating: 2
He's right, you're wrong, and you trolled first.

One dumb user action, two different browsers. One allows infection, the other doesn't. Put the 2+2 together. It's not the user.

We in the IT world all know that stupid user behavior is what causes most security issues but it doesn't mean you can give up developing software that mitigates this.

If your antivirus lets a virus slide is it the users fault who clicked on that email link (or some other behavior) or is it the antivirus fault for not catching it? If you say "the users fault" then I would ask... what is the point of having antivirus if it's the user's sole responsibility?

The same thing applies to browsers. Security zones, protected mode etc are all functions designed to mitigate the risk that dumb user behavior will cause. Some browsers are better at this than others (and despite MS bashing, IE 8.0 is actually pretty good)

You can call his girlfriend dumb if you want but how is it her fault? If the whole computer world required IT professional knowledge there wouldn't be much of a computer world. These things are appliances not unlike a toaster and need to be forgiving of untrained users.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Cerin218 on 8/13/2009 11:34:11 AM , Rating: 2
Problem I have with that is users aren't trained. A computer is a tool. A very specialized tool. It isn't as simple as a toaster. We don't put people behind the wheel of a car without proper training, and how hard is it to drive a car. Yet any yahoo with $400 can go out and buy a computer an plop down in front of it without an ounce of training. We hire people here all the time that have little to no computer knowledge and yet are expected to be able to handle all the complexities of the programs they work with. I try and do my best to educate users, but the truth is most people don't want to be educated. As long as they can point and click and do what they need done they are blissfully unaware of what can happen to their equipment. It's like how most people drive a car and don't have any clue how it works. When it stops working they take it to someone to get if fixed then drive it until it breaks again. That's the sad part to being an IT professional. We are the plumbers of the computer world. It takes our brains to keep a large amount of people continually productive. What saddens me is that we have to have programs that are smarter then the person using them, because most users don't or won't learn, even accidentally. Email viruses have been around for over a decade, yet they are just as effective now as when they were born, so why are computer using adults still falling prey to them? Because they don't learn. That will never change.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By farsawoos on 8/11/2009 4:27:53 PM , Rating: 5
I apologize if someone hit on this already; I'm at work, and I had to skim a bit for the sake of time. :)

The unfortunate truth as I have experienced it in Healthcare IT is that speed (perceived or otherwise), security, ease of use... they're all moot points in the shadow of compliance and application compatibility. The company I work for can't even move up to IE8, because only IE6 is supported by the application. Firefox, Chrome, Safari - they're all out of the question, because the vendors and suppliers of the "solutions" (ahem!) that we use every day refuse to support them. While we could defy the threat of no support and move to Firefox or Chrome, the generally horrible quality of the software itself - overabundance on 8-9 different ActiveX controls that all require NO security to work, poor Java and JAvaScript support, etc. - would immediately create problems we would be ill prepared to solve.

Additionally, compliance aside, administration is another huge issue for us. IE has the advantage of being centrally administerable in our existing environment, even if that is limited. I was pleasantly surprised to see the article somewhat hit on this point, admitting the requirement of hiring 2-3 extra IT staff to support browsers not so tightly integrated as IE. However, I would imagine a lot of environments simply aren't willing to dedicate the manpower to other browers, even if they are faster/more secure/etc., even if they do cost less than sticking with slower, older browsers, and *especially* given aforementioned compatibility issues.

The hard truth of our environment is, whatever the vendor supports is what we are required to use. Versioning is a complete bitch, security holes are rampant, and it forces the collective approach of IT into an early-2000's mentality and way of doing things.

Bleh... :(


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By tech329 on 8/12/2009 12:14:09 AM , Rating: 2
I can confirm that healthcare is a mess just as you state in precisely the way you state. It is crazy to have to use an outdated browser and to have to configure it so that any safety or security is voided. Healthcare workers are typical of users everywhere and need to be protected from themselves. You have to completely lock down the environment. There are no real alternatives.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Johnmcl7 on 8/12/2009 8:53:42 AM , Rating: 3
I also work for a large medical company and we are also still on IE6 for compliance and compatibility reasons - I think the person in the article advocating that browser speed should be top priority for business users clearly has no idea about business use.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By gstrickler on 8/12/2009 3:24:30 PM , Rating: 2
I understand, I've had to support software that will only work if the user is a local administrator, will only work with IE, and requires IE's security settings to be way too low.

However, it's time to play hardball with the vendor. Now that IE8 is out, IE6 is two versions old and MS can stop issuing security patches for it at any time. You're about to be in a position of having to choose between security updates from MS or support from your application vendor.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Cerin218 on 8/11/2009 5:33:31 PM , Rating: 1
IE is super secure, there has never been a history of anyone exploiting anything in IE. Cough, ActiveX, Cough. It doesn't matter what you use for a browser. They all have their strength and weaknesses. My dad was calling me once a week because his computer was infected with something using IE. I switched him to Firefox and now he doesn't call me at all. I attribute it to lack of pop ups and unders that he would happily click on before reading. As a user you need to educate yourself on smart browsing habits instead of relying on your browser to think for you. What would make you think that Goggle is going to be able to create an error free browser. They have been in the browser game for what 6 months as opposed to the decade and some the IE's and Firefox, or Opera have been in the game.

Oh by the way, we bash IE because they suck. They don't innovate in the least. If it weren't for Netscape's competition they wouldn't have progressed anywhere near where they are. Opera and Firefox had features that it took YEARS for MS to institute into IE7. It has security flaws, and speed issues. I wouldn't even use it if it weren't for the fact some old websites, and Microsoft websites won't display properly without it.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By deegee on 8/11/2009 6:25:10 PM , Rating: 2
Plenty of MS and IE bashing in the comments and replies as is to be expected... :-)

Personally I use IE8 almost exclusively. My surfing box is an Intel Atom cube, so I possibly have a different perspective/requirement in browsers, and browsing speed isn't the main determining factor of choice.
- Chrome launches the quickest but has too thin of an interface for me.
- IE8 and FireFox launch about the same speed, and perform close to the same, but FireFox renders too many web pages all wacky, and I don't like their bookmarking system.
- Opera launches the slowest by far, and has imho a poorly designed user interface.

Regarding security, my logon account is a standard user, and I'm knowledgeable on what to click on or not, so security isn't much of a concern on any of the browsers.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By piroroadkill on 8/12/2009 8:21:03 AM , Rating: 1
In a workplace, any half decent admin will have set users to have limited permissions. Malware can't do shit.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By deegee on 8/12/2009 3:18:32 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately this can't always be avoided.
In networks with MS SBS the workstation accounts must be set to Administrator level. Many ITs have yelled at MS over this for years.


RE: But IE 8.0 is more secure
By Cerin218 on 8/12/2009 5:08:55 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. When I started working here, all users were local admins. I fixed computers all the time as people installing whatever they wanted including malware would mess them up. I got frustrated and restricted everyone. Now I fix things on a rare occasion. Mostly due to people opening bad emails. You can't fix dumb.


who ever "he" is
By harmaton on 8/11/2009 2:22:03 PM , Rating: 1
should get a gold star. And maybe some of these Big companies would take note of such sound analysis.




RE: who ever "he" is
By barry1982 on 8/11/2009 2:46:43 PM , Rating: 2
Definitely! It's amazing some businesses are still running on IE 6. Ridiculous.


RE: who ever "he" is
By bdewong on 8/11/2009 3:10:12 PM , Rating: 3
Some businesses are still running windows 2000 which maxes out at IE 6.


RE: who ever "he" is
By JediJeb on 8/11/2009 3:35:36 PM , Rating: 5
We still have WinNT which maxes at IE5.5 and can't upgrade that machine because the software just won't work on Win2k or above, I have tried it. And no we can't get new software because the new versions won't support the equipment attached to that computer or the ISA interface card it uses :(

Our IT guy hates us because of so much legacy equipment, but you can justify spending $100K just to replace one computer, because that is what the equipment attached to it costs.


RE: who ever "he" is
By Smilin on 8/11/2009 4:17:51 PM , Rating: 3
This isn't that uncommon. Just keep the thing detatched from the network. It hasn't gotten security patches in a looong time now.


RE: who ever "he" is
By JediJeb on 8/12/2009 2:23:38 PM , Rating: 2
Bad thing is it has to be connected to the network to upload the data it generates( it is on a piece of equipment for chemical analysis). Though now we have to transfer the data to another computer and upload it because the vendor of the Laboratory Information Management System just updated their software and now even some of our XP machines can't run it.

As far as losing a motherboard, that is our biggest worry. We have about 8 pieces of equipment connected to 3 of the old computers and we are working on replacing the equipment a few per year until all are on the new software using ethernet connections instead of GPIB.

I was tickled pink when we were able to upgrade from an old HP RTE-A system to Windows 3.11 about 16 years ago, and kept updating until NT. Then all the software and interfaces changed and it was down to keeping old computers alive until we could afford to replace equipment. In a sense the equipment being so durable has been the downfall. One piece that died last year meant I could finally retire the last Win3.11 computer which was a Dell P75 lol. The manufacturer of most of our equipment has now come out with a USB to GPIB interface but that will still only allow compatability with the Win2k and XP with less than SP3 on it, but will allow newer computers to work. For the next year or so it will be a waiting game to see if we get everything upgraded before we lose the last of the old computers.


RE: who ever "he" is
By Cerin218 on 8/11/2009 5:50:40 PM , Rating: 2
What will you do when the motherboard fails? Call a third world country and see if they have a Slot 1 motherboard for replacement?


RE: who ever "he" is
By Alexstarfire on 8/12/2009 3:39:16 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sure China has TONS. :)


RE: who ever "he" is
By rgsaunders on 8/12/2009 6:55:07 AM , Rating: 2
It is not unusual for companies that produce such specialized equipment to have parts, such as motherboards, warehoused for such a requirement, that is one of the reasons the equipment is so expensive.


RE: who ever "he" is
By JediJeb on 8/12/2009 6:17:40 PM , Rating: 2
We have a few old P2 machines stashed away in case of an emergency, but you never know if they will work or not. Actually we just retired a server that was a P2 450 Dell, it had been stuck back in a closet and used for storing old database files that were needed a few times a year.

We finally picked up a 4TB Network Attached Storage system to hold our data in a central location. We are now generating about 400GB a year of data that has to be stored for at least 5 years. Doesn't seem like much to big companies but for one with only maybe 50 people in 4 offices it is quite alot. That one will be off site, but trying for another server on site so I can control the daily data storage better than just having it on a bunch of separate computers. The weekly backup to the NAS over our internet connection is probably going to take most of the night when it runs as it is.


RE: who ever "he" is
By Kurz on 8/11/2009 9:09:41 PM , Rating: 2
Bank of America runs it I have to deal with it everyday.


Let me get this straight.
By Smilin on 8/11/2009 2:55:15 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
"Using a slower browser could cause your employees to lose up to 15 minutes per day due to page lag. In a company with 5,000 people, that's what -- 1,250 hours?"


So lets do our own math out of our @ss... 15 minutes per day or 900 seconds. Figure a browser that costs half a second per page longer to load. That's 1800 web pages visited per day by each of your workers. You don't need a new broswer. You need new employees!

quote:

He goes on to point out that the cost of hiring 3 or 4 extra IT people (72-96 hours of effort) to support the extra security and management needed for a faster, but less manageable browser like Firefox or Opera, by far outweighs the losses of inaction in terms of employee compensation and power use. He says there's simply no justification for businesses sticking to slower browsers like Internet Explorer 6, Internet Explorer 7, or even Internet Explorer 8 -- just because they are easier to manage.


So you hire 3-4 people just to make up for the inefficiencies of a web browser? Lets do more of that fun math. 40hrs/wk x 3 employees or 6,000 man hours per year. Figuring you save 0.5 seconds per page load and that your (actually productive) employees visit 200 pages per day. To make this work you would have to have 216,000 employees, not 5000. If you work it around to just your 5000 employees it means each worker is visiting 8,640 pages per day or one page every 3 seconds in an 8 hour day. Yep. Better get new employees...these ones don't do any work.

Sure my numbers are pulled out of my @ss just like his but I at least made an effort to be correct instead of flat out exagerating to sell a fairly useless product.




RE: Let me get this straight.
By monomer on 8/11/2009 3:55:33 PM , Rating: 5
Hmmm, 5000 people loading webpages all day long without enough time to actually read them in between reloads. Sounds like this company is either generating page views, or providing some kind of Manual Denial of Service attack services.


RE: Let me get this straight.
By RamarC on 8/11/2009 5:42:37 PM , Rating: 4
yada, yada, yada... with this logic, businesses lose thousands of dollars every time their employees go to the bathroom. and they lose millions of dollars every time bad traffic causes people to come in late. and they lose billions of dollars because of snow storms and weather related closings.

it's just so easy to find excuses why you're blowing through money... to bad idiotic management is rarely cited.


RE: Let me get this straight.
By wifiwolf on 8/11/2009 11:05:09 PM , Rating: 2
I understand your point. And I certainly disagree with them, but I think you're not counting on selecting some buttons triggering a refresh each time you press them. Thank god we do have ajax now and not every button trigger refreshes but most corporate web services don't use it yet and so in some particular occasions that can make you lose productivity.

As I written in the former article, I've used Safari for a month now and it is really annoying to be filling forms or reading articles on it and trying to follow through the page it's loading - and I have a 24Mbit connection. I don't even want to think about someone who fills forms 8h a day and with slow connection.


RE: Let me get this straight.
By Smilin on 8/12/2009 1:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
So lets set their stupid cost numbers to the side for a sec and just talk about speed in general.

If you are running an old browser on an old OS stuff is going to be slower and you just need to deal with that. What benchmarks should really help with is which of the latest browsers is fastest.

Once you start putting the latest FF, Opera, IE, etc head to head on a new OS then the page load time differences become so very small that you indeed need a benchmark to tell. In this scenario the speed really becomes a distant consideration. Saving 1/4 or 1/2 or even full second longer load times just does not outweight other considerations like: security, supportability, compatibility. If you have a browser that meets these needs and is also the fastest then more power to you.


RE: Let me get this straight.
By TSS on 8/12/2009 1:32:18 AM , Rating: 2
Have you read the other line? it gets even funnyer.

quote:
with over 50,000 employees (which recently rejected Firefox) could be saving 12,500 hours a day


50,000/12,500 = 4. that's 4 hours saved a day per employee. this is just on those page loads, so if we take the 0,5 second example that becomes;

4 hours = 140 minutes = 14400 seconds, times 0,5 = 28800 page loads per day per employee.

Anandtech.com loads in 4 seconds here, i'm using firefox, *without* adblocker. I figure this is about average, though personally i find it fast enough. Suppose IE takes 0,5 seconds longer.

so 4,5 seconds times 28800 page views = 129600 seconds spent browsing = 2160 minutes spend browsing = 36 hours spend browsing per day per employee.

Hot damn those state department troops put in some serious overtime! The only way they can actually make this work within out space-time continuum is if each page loads in 3 seconds or faster, or within an 8 hour workday if each page loads in 1 second or faster. And they'd still have to be browsing from the second they step through the door at work.

Cmon Jason. Ridiculous was 3 weeks ago. Where at ludicrous speed now. I'm stoned and groggy at 7 in the morning because some idiot neighbour kept me up all night and even i can do estimates which do not break space and time.

At best another browser saves nothing, at worst it costs a huge pile of cash in management and support. Especially if the employees are used to working with IE.


RE: Let me get this straight.
By Alexstarfire on 8/12/2009 3:37:57 AM , Rating: 4
LOL, you got that totally wrong. 50,000/12,500 is 4 employees per hour. Go check your math again.


RE: Let me get this straight.
By Smilin on 8/12/2009 9:48:48 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the +5 everyone, but I think I made a big mistake in that second calculation. :P

A Big one.


lol
By xDrift0rx on 8/11/2009 2:17:09 PM , Rating: 2
you spelled business wrong




RE: lol
By krichmond on 8/11/2009 2:25:35 PM , Rating: 5
wish we could rate stories down as well as comments :-)


RE: lol
By Regs on 8/11/2009 3:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
Kristopher Kubicki would either have to fire half his staff or some how find away to curb popular opinion with incredible persuasion.


RE: lol
By JoshuaBuss on 8/12/2009 10:37:43 AM , Rating: 2
you kiddin? it's these kinds of comments that fuel the majority of page views here :D


RE: lol
By Cerin218 on 8/11/2009 5:53:16 PM , Rating: 2
Slavish concern for the composition of words is the sign of a bankrupt intellect.


Here's a benchmark for you...
By Golgatha on 8/11/2009 2:18:12 PM , Rating: 5
Run the benchmark with Ad-Block Plus updated and enabled. Then go for Flashblock with Ad-Block Plus and see how much time the user saves. Seriously, Flash and embedded hyperlink ads are the absolute worst things to happen to the world wide web from an end-user standpoint.




RE: Here's a benchmark for you...
By slashbinslashbash on 8/11/2009 6:03:27 PM , Rating: 5
Amen. From rendering the ads themselves, to contacting the servers the ads are on, to looking up the DNS for the servers the ads are on (yes I have had pages timeout on DNS lookup for a freaking ad), multiplied by 10 ads for every page; ads are a significant time-waster on the Web. I have used Adblock for years now and it still bugs the crap out of me any time I use a machine that doesn't have it.

Sorry DailyTech, I don't see your ads and I never have. I'm a zero-revenue user, and I bet I'm not the only one.


RE: Here's a benchmark for you...
By wifiwolf on 8/11/2009 11:11:32 PM , Rating: 2
That's why I'm still waiting for chrome to get a plugin manager, so I can disable flash. It's the only browser I know out of 13 that don't have it. I really like this browser but it's useless until that happens.


I can relate
By invidious on 8/11/2009 2:53:35 PM , Rating: 3
DT is my homepage at work with IE6 on XP and it takes 4 seconds between clicking the IE icon and the page finishing loading. At home using Opera 10.2 on win7 the same operation takes less than second. In terms of processing speed and ram the computers are roughtly equivilant.

Does this add up to 15 minutes a day? I doubt it. If you lose 3 seconds each time you load a page then you would have to load 300 web pages in a day to lose 15 mintues. I would say most employees waste more time browsing the internet and posting on DT than they do waiting for "work websites" to load.




RE: I can relate
By tritium4ever on 8/11/2009 4:43:26 PM , Rating: 1
What a pointless comparison. If you want to compare browser speeds, do so on the same computer and across [b]comparable browser versions[/b]. Do you seriously think that your comparison of IE6 on an XP machine against the latest Opera on a Windows 7 machine has [i]any[/i] merit at all?


RE: I can relate
By Laitainion on 8/11/2009 5:33:17 PM , Rating: 3
IE6/XP still makes up most corporate machines, and opera/win7 is clearly just another reference point making (essentially) 2 extremes of the speed spectrum.

Since he's arguing that the speed difference isn't as significant as it is being made out to be, such a comparison to get the best case for time 'saved' is perfectly valid.


RE: I can relate
By Smilin on 8/12/2009 5:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
+1


RE: I can relate
By Marlonsm on 8/11/2009 8:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
Usually the biggest difference in loading time is because of the internet connection, not the browser.

For example, in my slow connection, loading Dailytech, from pressing enter to everything loaded (with the cache clean) takes about the same time either if I'm using Firefox 3.5 in Ubuntu 9.04 or IE6 in my XP virtual machine.
So in most cases, the bottleneck is the connection speed, not the browser.


Can I just say...
By Motoman on 8/11/2009 2:36:13 PM , Rating: 5
...BS.

quote:
For businesses Mr. Baltuch states, "Using a slower browser could cause your employees to lose up to 15 minutes per day due to page lag. In a company with 5,000 people, that's what -- 1,250 hours?"


You could "lose" up to 15 minutes per day per employee...if every employee you had did nothing but surf the internet all day. Sure, lots of enterprise applications are web-based...but seriously, people are not sitting at their desks requesting new web pages all day long, internet or intranet.

GTFO.




RE: Can I just say...
By finalfan on 8/11/2009 2:52:51 PM , Rating: 5
Agree. Actually it's the time spent on reading stupid artical like this actually got wasted, both business time and people's life. How much time it will be? Considering millions people might have been fooled by it? 1M * 5mins, that what -- 83333 hrs?


Interesting
By GeorgeH on 8/11/2009 2:45:50 PM , Rating: 4
Interesting points, but they raise further questions.

Battery Life:
Okay, but how much of a difference are we really talking about, here? Is loading a page a few seconds faster really going to save more than a fractional percentage of battery life? It sounds like one of those nice, logical ideas that just won't pan out in the real world. Citation needed. :)

Productivity:
There's a lot of handwaving here. If humans were robots with a full "task queue" this would be a very valid point. However, I'd really need to see something more concrete to believe that fractional seconds strung together over the course of a day really makes the average worker any more productive. Also, 15mins a day waiting for page loads is a LOT of time. Even with a 10s differential, that's almost 1000 pages - color me skeptical. Again, citation needed. :)




RE: Interesting
By GeorgeH on 8/11/2009 2:47:05 PM , Rating: 2
Correction: 100 pages.


RE: Interesting
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/11/2009 3:16:54 PM , Rating: 1
I agree with your assessments that some of those estimates may in fact overestimate actual productivity losses. 15 minutes does seem rather high. However doing some more quick match...

To justify hiring 4 new IT people to support Firefox or Opera, say, you'd have to save 96 hours over 5000 employees, assuming employees and IT staff make the same. So that cuts it from 15 minutes to 1.15 min for a breakeven scenario. It's hard to believe that the average employee loses 15 min/day on slow page loads -- but about a minute is certainly plausible. And while you might just be breaking even in time, you save somewhat on power and employees are likely happier.

Of course your point about consecutive productivity may apply, as well.


Why I use Opera
By odych on 8/12/2009 5:29:50 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure if someone mentioned it. Just stuff that matters for me:

I usually open 20-50 tabs, ctrl+T and tab created, instantly, I can swich between them, instantly. This is the speed that matters for me.

Try to open 50 tabs with pages in IE.




RE: Why I use Opera
By Smilin on 8/14/2009 1:37:05 AM , Rating: 2
Ok, very interesting. I cannot imagine a scenario where 50 tabs would be necessary but I tried it...

IE8 on Win7.

It opens tabs as fast as I can tap the T. I mean I was hitting that thing like I was playing "track and field" on an atari 2600.

I even tried Ctrl+N instead of Ctrl+T. Again, as fast as I could tap the key 50 times.

I do not think your point was made.


Points
By GaryJohnson on 8/11/2009 2:33:22 PM , Rating: 2
Without a reference point for the points they don't really seem to make his points particularly poignant.

Why can't they just benchmark with seconds or milliseconds?




By tlbj6142 on 8/11/2009 3:02:08 PM , Rating: 2
Throw a content scanning web proxy in front of your users, like many companies do, and browser speed will make little difference. As the proxy is already adding a significant delay to web access. Though, of course, this is only for external web access. Internal web access would be proxy free.




Not always relevant...
By deegee on 8/11/2009 6:10:01 PM , Rating: 2
Along with many others here, I don't agree with the "pulled from the air" numbers on costs and losses and time wasted etc., but the benchmark is free though, so who are we to complain. :-)

However, this benchmark is imho not very informative except for a minimal comparison of specific browser uses targetted by the tests.

When bringing business into the discussion, what about businesses who are browser connected through MS Server's Remote Web Workplace which is an ActiveX RDP interconnect (I use this a lot in my work). HTML and CSS and Java performance of a browser means diddly-poo-poo in these types of cases where so much of the page content relies on other network and software factors.

I feel that it is good to bring this information regarding browsers and performance to the forefront, since we are becoming more 'net centric, but FutureMark's challenge is going to be benchmarking and making sense of a very wide variety of uses and configurations.




I don't care what he says,
By eddieroolz on 8/12/2009 8:06:04 PM , Rating: 2
I don't find that I'm losing productivity on my laptop just because I'm using IE8.

Sorry, Firefox has gotten too crappy for me to use. Extensions just bog it down even more.

Chrome? Nah. That thing froze on Facebook twice. Consuming 50% of CPU resource. Now if that isn't a battery-consumer, then what is?

I welcome IE8 with open arms. There's nothing better than IE8 64-bit.




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