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Both houses of the French parliament were in favor of the new law

The French parliament has accepted a more lenient music DRM law that was proposed in March.  Both the Senate and National Assembly approved of the bill, which was in its final stage before it officially became a law.  Apple called the original form of the draft "state sponsored piracy."  Apple will now be forced to open iTunes songs to other MP3 players manufactured by other companies.  Likewise, Microsoft and Sony, both major competitors of Apple, will also be forced to open up their digital rights management technology.  However, if records labels and artists support the DRM of one company, they can restrict which systems their music tracks are able to play on.

The original intent of the bill was to stop one company, most specifically Apple, from dominating the music market.  Analysts of the bill are not sure if there will be enough of a profit for Apple to remain in the market in France.  Even though Apple won a partial battle, the company will stay in the French music market to test the effectiveness of the legal loophole.  It will have several weeks to decide what it plans to do, because two political parties in France have filed a constitutional challenge against the law. 

Apple must now focus on its legal problems that are occurring in Europe.  Norway, Denmark and Sweden are all requesting Apple to open its closed music system or face heavy fines which would then be followed by possible court action.

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anti american idiots
By iamright on 7/1/06, Rating: 0
RE: anti american idiots
By NagoyaX on 7/1/2006 11:52:14 AM , Rating: 2
Dude its aditudes like your that makes people hate the U.S. Living in Canada, I dont mind the U.S. but people like you give it a bad rep. Whats wrong with soicalism? whats wrong with making the world a little fairer for all companies, i hate the ipod, but i dont mind itunes.

I also i hate how ipod lock u into just one player... so i really dont think its not a bad idea that itunes have to open up its drm so i can listen it on my samsung. They are still making money...


RE: anti american idiots
By sprockkets on 7/1/2006 12:44:48 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, 99 cents a song in poor acc 128 format, with pointless DRM after burning to a CD. What is the matter with one store selling all the music, with it using the DRM you need for your device, which, again, DRM is POINTLESS?


RE: anti american idiots
By bob661 on 7/1/2006 10:00:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Whats wrong with soicalism? whats wrong with making the world a little fairer for all companies,
There's nothing wrong with socialism as long as it's in YOUR country. The U.S. is NOT socialist country nor do we care to be one.

To address the the OP, France and any other country can impose any law they wish because it's THEIR country not ours. If the French people are happy or not happy with the rulings of their government, then that's THEIR business.


RE: anti american idiots
By masher2 (blog) on 7/2/2006 3:11:19 PM , Rating: 3
> " Whats wrong with soicalism?"

Why, nothing at all. Just look at the booming economies of Cuba, North Korea, and the republics of the former USSR.


RE: anti american idiots
By Merry on 7/2/2006 4:55:52 PM , Rating: 2
Thats called communism and is much different.

Define socialism?

Some would argue the UK is still very much socialist, with Blair recently stating his belief in social justice but the other week. I dont think our economy is in a bad state.

(but then it isnt socialist in the truest sense of the word)


RE: anti american idiots
By Pirks on 7/2/2006 8:52:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Define socialism
Socialism is a tendency to "equalize" people. For example in Canada it does not matter whether you are highly valuable member of society or a meth addict from the street - whoever you are you will spend time in a long queue in a public hospital and no matter you do or say will speed up the process. Or, by the same "equalize everyone" socialist ideology, everyone in Canada pays same dumb and idiotic sales tax. EVERYONE pays the same 15% (except lucky Albertans, these have oil and can screw socialists at least in this area), no matter who he or she is. If you are a multimillionaire - you'll pay 15%. If you're meth addict - you pay THE SAME stupid 15%. Not a sign of smart progressive tax policy here, where the more you EARN the more is your TAX RATE. This is what a socialism in its mild form is. Once you go to equalize people even further, you start to equalize 1) education 2) wages 3) every other service you can think of, etc etc, and finally you get Soviet Russia or North Korea. One end of the spectrum is the US and the other is radical socialist countries like NK, which you call communist - but you have no idea that Soviet Union was internally called a country of "developed socialism", this is the term that General Secretary Leonid Brezhnev coined (ever heard of this guy? I doubt that) so the term "communism" describes something that exists ONLY IN THE THEORY - this is much more radical than socialism in Soviet Union, NK, Cuba etc, and existed in its mild forms only in a handful of countries and only for a short periods of time - Russia with Lenin (short period of time between 1918 and 1921), Cambodia with Pol Pot, well... that's everything I'm aware of... masher might know more, he's been to Russia and knows the stuff too.

UK - I heard they have similar socialist healthcare system as in Canada, but not sure about details? Do you have private healthcare rendered illegal in UK? If yes - here's your piece of real socialism. If no - then it's not socialism, at least in the healthcare. To get socialism in some area, you have to SUPPRESS private entrepreneurship in that area, like it's done with Canadian healthcare where private healthcare is illegal.
If private initiative is not suppressed and not declared illegal, then it does not qualify as socialism to me.


RE: anti american idiots
By masher2 (blog) on 7/2/2006 9:11:20 PM , Rating: 2
> "so the term "communism" describes something that exists ONLY IN THE THEORY...Russia with Lenin (short period of time between 1918 and 1921), Cambodia with Pol Pot, well... that's everything I'm aware of... masher might know more, he's been to Russia and knows the stuff too...

You are correct. Communism per se has never been implemented, except for a form known as "primitive communism", which is rather different than what Marx intended.

But its important to distinguish between Socialism and Communism. The latter is *not* merely some more intense version of the Socialism. They're different animals entirely.

Socialism is merely State control over the means of production and/or distribution. In the USSR, Socialism was used to engender a _very_ weak form of Communism. Nazi Germany used Socialism to empower Fascism. And nations like Canada use Socialism to embrace warm and fuzzy notions of social democracy (itself a watered-down form of Communism).



RE: anti american idiots
By masher2 (blog) on 7/2/2006 9:03:03 PM , Rating: 2
> "Thats called communism and is much different..."

Err, sorry sir, your answer was incorrect. North Korea, Cuba, and the former USSR were socialist nations. Union of Soviet Socialist Republic and all that...

Communism is a socio-political form. Socialism is a socio-economic form. They overlap very little. A nation can be one or the other, both at once, or neither.

There have been many socialistic nations. However, no nation on earth has-- despite lofty claims to the contrary-- ever come close to implementing communism.

The nations I named are Socialist. As I said. And the degree of their wrecked economic systems is in direct proportion to the degree in which they implemented socialism. The two factors are, as the economist Ludwig von Mises demonstrated, inextricably interwined.


RE: anti american idiots
By Pirks on 7/2/2006 11:22:32 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
the degree of their wrecked economic systems is in direct proportion to the degree in which they implemented socialism. The two factors are, as the economist Ludwig von Mises demonstrated, inextricably interwined.
Yep, that nails down the reason why Canadian healthcare is such POS compared to hybrid private/state healthcare in other countries - Canada moved much to the left and "equalized" people too much with regard to healthcare. Other areas in Canada where state is involved too much (sales tax) or where state does not limit monopolies (Telus DSL/landline monopoly in BC) also do suck, so socialism here in BC has many ugly faces. What's funny is that all Canadians perceive this state of affairs as absolutely normal, only the immigrants from other countries feel the shock - then some move south, but not all, since socialism here is not as brutal as in Soviet Union, hence Canada is still better and more free/less socialist than some other countries.


RE: anti american idiots
By Pirks on 7/2/2006 6:19:37 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
> " Whats wrong with soicalism?" Why, nothing at all. Just look at the booming economies of Cuba, North Korea, and the republics of the former USSR.
Also don't forget to compare P.O.S. Canadian socialist healthcare with anything from true free market country like US, modern Russia or Germany, where you can go to any doctor you want for a fee. Until you spent a long time around socialist country or a socialist system inside capitalist country (like socialist healthcare in capitalist Canada) you won't understand what P.O.S. socialism is, with its ugly tendency to "equalize" everyone - if anyone is above others - just shoot him/her (Soviet Russia, North Korea) or make him die in an overcrowded socialist hospital full of "equal" patients (modern Canada).


RE: anti american idiots
By Trixanity on 7/1/2006 12:20:42 PM , Rating: 3
We're not really jealous of "America's success" to be quite honest. So no, you're not right in this case. These laws actually benefits us in the long run but what do you really know about that when you do not live in Europe. And this does not only happen to American companies if you did not know that which you seem not to do, so there's not really any need to praise America because there's so many big companies there and therefore Europe is trying to put fines on them? God... Get a little bit realistic here... Just a tiny bit, can you handle that?


RE: anti american idiots
By iamright on 7/1/06, Rating: 0
RE: anti american idiots
By Hare on 7/1/2006 4:35:58 PM , Rating: 3
Being patriotic is fine but you are just ridiculous.


RE: anti american idiots
By Merry on 7/2/2006 4:57:53 PM , Rating: 2
fool

I hope you dont actually think like this, really i dont.


RE: anti american idiots
By Scorpion on 7/1/2006 12:23:06 PM , Rating: 2
The point of this, at least to me, is quite clear. DRM technology is fine, as long as it's open, and supported on multiple devices. A CD is a CD is a CD, and can be played on a variety of CD players, but what you download on iTunes can ONLY be played on an iPod. So you're paying for music that in a way doesn't allow any fair use in the sense of being able to play the music on any other device. Sure there are ways around that, but for the "common" layman this is out of their grasp and isn't as simple as the way things have been with CDs, tapes, and records for the past 100 years.


RE: anti american idiots
By iamright on 7/1/2006 12:56:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you're paying for music that in a way doesn't allow any fair use in the sense of being able to play the music on any other device

If I had gone and bought a beta movie should I expect that Sony change the format so that I can have the option of playing the movie I purchased in a VHS VCR? No! I would have to go and buy the same movie in VHS format and pay double to have that option. Competition is what drives the economy, not fairness and crippling laws that slow down the engine in an attempt to speed up the caboose. I am actually Canadian BTW folks. I’m not an egotistical American that hasn’t lived in a socialist county, I have, I know what they are like – they suck in that regard!


RE: anti american idiots
By Le Québécois on 7/1/2006 5:23:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am actually Canadian BTW folks. I’m not an egotistical American that hasn’t lived in a socialist county, I have, I know what they are like – they suck in that regard!


Ok...canadian...and by lived in a socialist country you mean what? Canada. If so I'm really curious to hear what part of Canada. Because compare to the USA we "may" seem socialist but in the real world let me tell you we are far from behing a socialist country.


RE: anti american idiots
By iamright on 7/1/2006 9:22:10 PM , Rating: 2
Lived in BC. Had a Liberal government and an NDP government as well. It was bad - I would say that Alberta is ok but thats it. I lived there for 22 years, there was socialized healthcare and ICBC, BCHydro, etc etc. Canada is a great country. I actally like it so don't get me wrong cause I claim Canadian.


RE: anti american idiots
By Ringold on 7/1/06, Rating: 0
RE: anti american idiots
By Trixanity on 7/1/2006 3:07:35 PM , Rating: 2
Well, Ringold, you seem very arrogant anyway, so why are you complaining about people considering you arrogant as you're actually saying that America knows much more about economics and have a whole lot more success than European companies as well as generalizing about how all of Europe are hating America and so on... So actually, who's bitching about America? None. Who's bitching about European laws and other stuff? America. There you have it, undeniable proof of you think you're better than everybody else as well as whining about laws in the countries you try to sell your precious products in.


RE: anti american idiots
By Ringold on 7/1/2006 9:32:42 PM , Rating: 1
Trixanity: I'm saying America as a whole is economically superior, at least in how we operate, yes. The average joe knows no more than an European about economics, but capitalism is the most efficient way. History proves it. Hong Kong has no minimum wage, no welfare, no safety net, and the result is that people work their ass off.. resulting in a city more beautiful and robust than any American or European city. Tell French students they can actually get fired for bad performance and next thing you know cars get torched. I think its obvious. Am I being a little harsh, could I be more statesman like? Nicer? Yeah, but economics is so clear-cut against socialism I just cant find it in my heart to coddle babies. Simply have to tell them that the candy in their mouths is rotting their teeth.


RE: anti american idiots
By Kuroyama on 7/2/2006 3:09:09 AM , Rating: 2
Using a city-state to defend your economic opinion is ludicrous. They are in a unique economic situation where they can effectively sponge off their neighbors by concentrating the high value industries in a small area.

For instance, the ports in Singapore and Hong Kong are hubs for trade in all of the Orient. A country with even a dozen port cities can never have anywhere near this level of success. Alternatively, a city-state can minimize regulation, knowing the ill effects of their policies are primarily born by people in other countries, as is done by many tax havens.

This is not to say that Singapore and Dubai are not doing a stupendous job, only that it is literally impossible for these countries models to succeed in a much larger economy. Anyways, if you have anything to say then it shouldn't be hard to find a "real country" as your example.


RE: anti american idiots
By crystal clear on 7/1/2006 3:21:38 PM , Rating: 2
Whats good in the USA or good for the USA is not necessarily
good for the rest of the world.Every country decides whats
good/bad for themselves.They are sovreign countries & nobody
can decide whats good for them,only they can decide that.
You cannot impose your values/policies on them-like it or not.
If they can respect/accept your laws/regulations whilst doing business your country ,so can you -vice versa.
By the way I am not ANTI USA-rather practical in my approach
the way business is done.I say this based on my experience,
let be the EU or China orIndia or Japan.


RE: anti american idiots
By iamright on 7/1/06, Rating: 0
RE: anti american idiots
By Wonga on 7/1/2006 4:19:52 PM , Rating: 2
Don't take this so personally. I'm from the UK, but I hope laws similar to those in France take hold here.

The issue here isn't about forcing "American companies" (a very loose term, since things are so globalised these days) to hand over fines just for the sake of it. What the issue is is allowing people who paid for music to use it on any device they choose. Now, yes, people probably should be smarter and choose a different brand from the start, but technology is tough for people to grasp and they probably just think a song from the internet will work just like any CD they ever got in the past (and work with any brand), which it doesn't. So, this law just ensures people have choice in the future. Is that really such a bad law? I don't think so.


RE: anti american idiots
By KCjoker on 7/1/2006 5:56:35 PM , Rating: 2
They already have a choice...either you like the product and buy it or you don't and don't buy it...very simple. Thsi is why France's economy sucks because companies aren't going to invest there if they're punished for being successful. And no I'm not telling France how to run their country if they like it this way it's their choice.


RE: anti american idiots
By Webgod on 7/1/2006 4:44:27 PM , Rating: 2
I think the point is that it's an unneccessary law. You can burn your iTunes songs to a CD. From there you can listen to that CD on a portable CD player, or rip it back onto your hard drive as an MP3 or a WMA file. Then you could transfer the songs to a device that doesn't support Apple's piracy proof AAC format. Or you could buy the genuine Audio CD from a local store, or merely buy a similarly DRM'ed WMA track from another online music store. Putting the burden on Apple (or various online music retailers) is unnecessary.


RE: anti american idiots
By Le Québécois on 7/1/2006 5:37:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You can burn your iTunes songs to a CD. From there you can listen to that CD on a portable CD player, or rip it back onto your hard drive as an MP3 or a WMA file. Then you could transfer the songs to a device that doesn't support Apple's piracy proof AAC format.


I guess you're not an Audiphile,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile

because doing that is making a copy of a format , which have already lost some quality because it's not a .wav anymore, into a CD (hence losing quality by doing so) and then encode it again to lose even more quality. Yep, really good thinking man. You lose quality each time you do so...do it a couple of time and even you will hear the difference it makes.


RE: anti american idiots
By Ringold on 7/1/2006 9:28:58 PM , Rating: 2
"i dont see how this is a 'socialist' law. "

Its socialist because the 'people' are imposing upon a independent corporation a law or way of operating that is not part of what the free and open markets of the world demand. If there was ample demand, there would be supply. But there is none. Just like the EU and their special version of Windows nobody really buys, this is just ideology, and sticking it to an American company. If another company, say a French one, started up and provided "supply" for the "demand" of less DRM, then THAT would be capitalist free markets responding to a legitimate market force. As it is, though, is either imperial tampering or, more likely, plain, naked socialism.

In terms of helping people understand technology and use it easier, again with the personal responsibility thing. Consumers must educate themselves, or face consequences. It's not exactly hard to get, 20 minutes on Wikipedia or reviews like Consumer Reports can tell someone immensely important things. Anything else is asking companies to make up for consumers stupidity. Again, socialism.


RE: anti american idiots
By Webgod on 7/3/2006 9:14:33 PM , Rating: 2
"Yep, really good thinking man."

That's what I'm saying about the law! Obviously there's quality loss with the generations of copying and recoding. Don't like it, buy real CD's.


RE: anti american idiots
By raven3x7 on 7/1/2006 6:02:28 PM , Rating: 2
i dont see how this is a 'socialist' law. all the french government is doig is making sure that companies compeet fairly with each other and not by locking out competitive products. Because face it all that Apple is doing is abusing their webstore's popularity in order to eliminate the competition for the ipod, instead of competing fairly with other companies. Apple is trying to create to create a monopoly which is not a very capitalist concept, is it now.


RE: anti american idiots
By ogreslayer on 7/2/2006 9:31:00 AM , Rating: 2
Dude you need a reality check, the evils of socilaist society are exactly what the US at present stands for, Those in power want to tell you how to think, eat, pray, have sex, work, raise your kids, and to top that off want to pay you an unequal wage to the amount of work you put into the present economy. The law they passed is more of a pre-emptive stance toward Apple's control... A lesson learned from giving MS such a long leash and then having to spend alot of time and energy wheeling it back in. Free enterprise has never been and will never be what capitalism is about and the fact that you think that is quite foolish. Capitalism revolves around 1 precept alone; that money is conversely and totally equivalent to power. Those who have it can more easily maintain it, while those who don't have it stripped from them just to live. What could be considered socialistic ideals are exactly what kept this country afloat in its darkest econmic hour. Free enterprise is not what America was built on, its moderated Freedom... a fact that I think people have forgotten. Free enterprise is a result of those freedoms upon the economic structure of the country . I don't recall seeing an amendment entitling any corporation unregulated business activites in the US nor any entitlement to protect any of its intellectual property nor that of those who it consorts with. DRM is a joke and Apple won't give a damn about it cause they know it is, Only 2 entities actually care the MPAA and RIAA thats it I don't care and you shouldn't either, should actually be happy that a government has the balls to stand up for its consumer base in some way. I call it irony that is the French though.


Who keeps deleting my posts?? and why??
By iamright on 7/1/2006 9:27:32 PM , Rating: 3
Why had this happened? Any answers??




RE: Who keeps deleting my posts?? and why??
By Ringold on 7/1/06, Rating: 0
RE: Who keeps deleting my posts?? and why??
By Trixanity on 7/1/2006 11:36:21 PM , Rating: 2
Ahem... The European crowd didn't like your attitude and... You mean an American economy book by the way...


By Hare on 7/2/2006 4:55:38 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think it was the European crowd. I think it was actually the crowd with common sence (Most Americans belong to this group)...


RE: Who keeps deleting my posts?? and why??
By iamright on 7/2/2006 11:14:19 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You mean an American economy book by the way...



What kind of broken english is that? I mean an American economy book by the way? LOL what does that mean. Europeans love america! Every country over there only has a country because of America. Lest they all forget too soon they may need a reminder.


RE: Who keeps deleting my posts?? and why??
By Trixanity on 7/2/2006 11:26:26 AM , Rating: 2
If you used your head you'd figure it out but let me explain to you that an American economy book is a book about economy made by a person that lives in America... Which means this book about economy is based on how you (In America) do things.
And I realized there was normal Americans, to the guy above.


By iamright on 7/2/2006 1:10:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you used your head you'd figure it out


OK, what does me meaning an American economy book have to do with my question that you responded to? And I think that you meant an American Economics book BTW. I didn't mention anything about economies of America or anything of the sort.


RE: Who keeps deleting my posts?? and why??
By masher2 (blog) on 7/2/2006 9:18:12 PM , Rating: 2
> "If you used your head you'd figure it out but let me explain to you that an American economy book is a book about economy made by a person that lives in America... Which means this book about economy is based on how you (In America) do things..."

Err, it seems clear you've never touched an advanced economics book. At the low-and mid-levels, economics is universal. The same principles are taught, regardless of are.

At the highest levels, you'll find that books written by "americans" (the Chicago school of economic thought) is actually more similar the European Socialist agendas...whereas "Austrian Ecnomics", is much more modelled after the "American way".



By masher2 (blog) on 7/2/2006 9:19:16 PM , Rating: 2
My life...my life for an edit function. #%@~! spelling errors.


By Trixanity on 7/2/2006 9:28:47 PM , Rating: 2
Care, masher2?


Learning the hard way
By crystal clear on 7/1/2006 1:21:37 PM , Rating: 2
"Apple must now focus on its legal problems that are occurring in Europe. Norway, Denmark and Sweden are all requesting Apple to open its closed music system or face heavy fines which would then be followed by possible court action."

Ask MS -they learnt the hardway,so do Apple & others.
No choice - better now than later,or it will be too late.
You have to respect/accept their LAWS,if you want to operate
in their countries.Like it or not.






RE: Learning the hard way
By Ringold on 7/1/06, Rating: 0
RE: Learning the hard way
By Xavian on 7/1/2006 2:53:35 PM , Rating: 2
thats because the version of windows wasn't advertised, wasn't manufactured and wasn't available. MS only made it to get the EU off its back. No more, no less.

MS wanted it to fail (so MS could say "see! i told ya so!"), so it went out its way to make it virtually unknown and unsellable.


RE: Learning the hard way
By Trixanity on 7/1/2006 3:10:12 PM , Rating: 3
Well, Ringold, you seem very arrogant anyway, so why are you complaining about people considering you arrogant as you're actually saying that America knows much more about economics and have a whole lot more success than European companies as well as generalizing about how all of Europe are hating America and so on... So actually, who's bitching about America? None. Who's bitching about European laws and other stuff? America. There you have it, undeniable proof of you think you're better than everybody else as well as whining about laws in the countries you try to sell your precious products in.


RE: Learning the hard way
By bob661 on 7/2/2006 3:55:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There you have it, undeniable proof of you think you're better than everybody else as well as whining about laws in the countries you try to sell your precious products in.
You haven't proved anything. If you write something and merely say what you wrote is fact without any way to back up what you said, then you have stated no facts at all. Ringold is not arrogant, he's stating facts. But you don't have to take my word for it, go look it up, take a course, or read a book.


Heres a plan...
By chickenselects on 7/1/2006 3:58:36 PM , Rating: 2
Apple should simply stop selling to France. That would piss them off even more.




RE: Heres a plan...
By snappyname on 7/1/2006 4:23:45 PM , Rating: 2
Lol, don't know if you've noticed but Europe is a lot less locked down into the iPod and all things related... There are other stores that offer mp3 music... Other, often better players available as well (Iriver's players for one).


RE: Heres a plan...
By Wonga on 7/1/2006 4:26:07 PM , Rating: 2
That's their choice. I think what France is doing sets a good precident though. DRM is taking grip in a huge way, so it's best to sort it out now rather than later.


Apple NOT forced to open iTunes
By Questar on 7/1/2006 4:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple will now be forced to open iTunes songs to other MP3 players manufactured by other companies.


There are some many loopholes in the law Apple will not be doing anything.

For example, as long as the record companies say that they don't want iTunes music converted to another fornmat, Apple doesn't have to open up.

Also, any player that wants to run Fairplay needs to do so without violating patents.

The above means Apple will not be opening a thing.




RE: Apple NOT forced to open iTunes
By Xavian on 7/1/2006 7:01:10 PM , Rating: 2
Except the fact that the US patent office doesn't regulate worldwide patents?

Apple will have to open up or pull out of such countries (which could prove a boon to non-apple mp3 players). I can only wish the UK government passes the same sort of law (since we are far far too lax on DRM laws).


By Questar on 7/3/2006 2:11:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple will have to open up or pull out of such countries


No that's not the way international law works. The EU respects and enforces US patents.


By iamright on 7/3/2006 9:19:36 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks, now it all makes sense to those reading the thread.




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