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France tells Amazon to stop shipping books for free or pay up; Amazon pays up

Amazon.com, one of the largest stores online, offers several features that entice buyers to purchase there, such as "one-click purchasing" and free shipping on many items. While Amazon's multiple attempts to patent "one-click purchasing" has drawn no small amount of ire, the offer of free shipping has been lauded as a beneficial attribute -- until now.

Amazon.com's French website Amazon.fr currently stands in violation of a 1981 French law prohibiting certain discounts on books. The ruling by the French High Court contained two fines -- a one-time lump sum payment of €100,000 to the French Bookseller's Union, and a fine of €1,000 per day until the offending "free shipping" promotion is ended. While the proverbial gavel banged on December 12th, a "grace period" until mid-January gave them time to "correct the problem" and respond.

Amazon indeed responded -- but with defiance rather than compliance.

The 1981 Lang Law in France prohibits several type of discounts on books, including "loss leaders" -- selling a book below cost -- and offering a discount of more than 5% off the list price. With the "free shipping" discount factored in, France officials found Amazon in violating this law; but rather than raise their prices and risk losing customers, Amazon decided to hold fast.  The company opted to pay the €1,000 per day fine.

Amazon.com founder and CEO Jeff Bezos wrote an email calling attention to the fact that "France would be the only country in the world where the free delivery practiced by Amazon would be declared illegal" and invites customers to sign an online petition stating their support of free shipping.

While Amazon's fight may seem noble, the current value of the fine is fixed for thirty days only. At that time, it will be "adjusted" ... and likely in an upward direction.

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f the effing French
By anotherdude on 1/18/2008 12:26:52 PM , Rating: 3
nuff said




RE: f the effing French
By mcnabney on 1/18/2008 12:42:21 PM , Rating: 2
Typical European competitive actions. If you can't beat foreign competition, fine them.


RE: f the effing French
By cochy on 1/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: f the effing French
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 1/18/2008 12:58:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The same law applies to all companies operating in France from what this article says. So it's not about foreign competition.

It sort of does though. The law states that a place cannot sell books on a loss leader. This typically means less than MSRP or at least less than what everyone else is selling at.

Maybe the rules are different in France -- here in the U.S. selling things at below cost is considered predatory pricing on the macro.

Of course, there's also the argument that Amazon is not selling books below cost, and that the free shipping is factored into its business model. After seeing some of Amazon's warehouses, I'm pretty sure they're still making money even on the free shipping items. There's not a single person in there, it's all run by robots.

From the background I read, this really does scream "my local French bookstore can't compete, let's drum up a lawsuit based on an antiquated law."


RE: f the effing French
By BMFPitt on 1/18/2008 1:34:25 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Maybe the rules are different in France -- here in the U.S. selling things at below cost is considered predatory pricing on the macro.
Here in the US, the "French Booksellers Union" would be an illegal price-fixing monopoly.

Predatory pricing is usually considered as losing money in order to cause your competitors to lose more. Amazon makes money selling what they sell, they just have a more efficient business model.


RE: f the effing French
By Zelvek on 1/18/2008 3:00:41 PM , Rating: 5
Then how do you justify the MPAA and RIAA?


RE: f the effing French
By Ryanman on 1/18/2008 3:07:58 PM , Rating: 5
We don't. Everyone despises the MPAA and the RIAA and the vast majority of tech savvy users do eveything they can to hurt those organizations.


RE: f the effing French
By Zelvek on 1/18/2008 3:12:26 PM , Rating: 3
yet they are still legal entities in your own country making you no better.


RE: f the effing French
By Spuke on 1/18/2008 3:18:41 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
yet they are still legal entities in your own country making you no better.
Not the same thing. We didn't vote them into existence. You think we would voluntarily vote for organizations whose sole existence is to sue us?


RE: f the effing French
By Strunf on 1/18/2008 7:54:27 PM , Rating: 2
The "Bookselling association" in France is not mandatory, you may not be part of it if you so wish.

It's EXACTLY the same thing as RIAA, an organization that exist to "protect" the interest of its members.


RE: f the effing French
By BMFPitt on 1/19/2008 11:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The "Bookselling association" in France is not mandatory, you may not be part of it if you so wish.
Really, now? You should probably let Amazon and the judge know they can just opt out, then.


RE: f the effing French
By masher2 (blog) on 1/18/2008 3:28:13 PM , Rating: 5
> "...making you no better."

Record companies freely choose to join the RIAA, and artists freely choose to sign with RIAA-affiliated bands. In the US, there are thousands of artists *not* with these

In France, however, you don't have the choice to not be affected by the Lang Law....even if both author and publisher wish not to be.


RE: f the effing French
By Strunf on 1/18/2008 7:59:11 PM , Rating: 1
OMG what a dumb anology...

In France you're not forced to be part of any association either... just like in the case of the RIAA if you so wish you can go all by yourself, however unions make it easier to protect yourself and that's why they exist.

"In France, however, you don't have the choice to not be affected by the Lang Law"
Lang Law is a law enacted by the government, if you guys in the US have the choice to be affected by a law or not, good for you but in most countries the law is the same for everyone.


RE: f the effing French
By masher2 (blog) on 1/18/2008 11:02:09 PM , Rating: 2
> "OMG what a dumb anology..."

Had you read the thread, you'd have seen you're agreeing with me; trying to draw an comparison between the Lang Law and the RIAA is indeed "dumb". The two are in no manner analogous.


RE: f the effing French
By JoeBanana on 1/19/2008 5:22:59 AM , Rating: 2
He was trying to make an anology between "bookselling association" and RIAA not RIAA and Lang Law.


RE: f the effing French
By B3an on 1/20/2008 6:47:17 AM , Rating: 4
Just give up. The vast majority of the people on here are americans. Whatever you say that points out something remotely bad about there country will fall on ignorant deaf ears and get rated down, while bad things about over countries will get rated up - as perfectly demonstrated. You cant get through to these xenophobic people that think they're are above everyone else.


RE: f the effing French
By theapparition on 1/21/2008 7:58:09 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The vast majority of the people on here are americans.

Yes they are. And most americans have pride in their country, just as you have in yours. But don't dismiss other's opinions. For all it's faults, the US is still looked at as THE model of democracy. That can't be disputed.

quote:
Whatever you say that points out something remotely bad about there country will fall on ignorant deaf ears and get rated down, while bad things about over countries will get rated up - as perfectly demonstrated.

Whenever I see a law that limits my selection, adds inconvience, and increases my cost, I'm going to fight against it. Doesn't matter what country your from, you should be able to see that. If for some reason, I want to support the local bookstore, since they provide better service or ammenities, that is my choice. Not one for the government to force on me, reguardless if that law was in the US or France. It just so happens this law is French, and as such, they should be taken to task for it.

quote:
You cant get through to these xenophobic people that think they're are above everyone else.

Your talking about the French, right?
I don't know even where to begin, but no other EU country has passed as many laws requiring French quotas on everything from TV, radio, movies, media, and even food content. In the US, there are plenty of stations that broadcast completely in Spanish. My cable company offers over 200 channels in languges other than "English". There are pleny of foreign cars on the road, and our trade deficit speaks volumes on to our lack of xenophobia.


RE: f the effing French
By frobizzle on 1/21/2008 10:16:51 AM , Rating: 2