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One of the few men to ever walk on the moon, Edgar Mitchell, believes humans are not alone

Former NASA astronaut Edgar Mitchell -- who was involved in Apollo 14 moon mission in 1971 -- has come forward and again stated his belief that humans are not the only living things in the universe.

“Our destiny, in my opinion, and we might as well get started with it, is [to] become a part of the planetary community,” Mitchell said during an interview with CNN.  “We should be ready to reach out beyond our planet and beyond our solar system to find out what is really going on out there.”

Furthermore, Mitchell grew up in Roswell, New Mexico, which serves as the location UFO believers think a UFO crash landed in 1947.  Several Roswell residents were "hushed and told not to talk about their experience by military authorities," and were threatened with "dire consequences" if they spoke publicly about what they either saw or encountered.

Mitchell said he learned of the news because the residents "didn't want to go to the grave with their story.  They wanted to tell somebody reliable. And being a local boy and having been to the moon, they considered me reliable enough to whisper in my ear their particular story.  

NASA and the government both have vehemently denied any cover-up that helped create shows like The X-Files, though some people believe there is some type of secret base in the desert.  The U.S. Air Force confirmed something crashed and was later recovered in 1947, but said it was a classified balloon that was launched in the area.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of people come forward each year and accuse the government of hiding possible signs of alien life, but none of them have as much credibility as Mitchell.  Since serving as an astronaut more than 30 years ago, Mitchell has become known as an outspoken believer of UFOs and aliens.  During a recent interview, he said he believes the “UFO phenomenon is real,” and wants the U.S. federal government to disclose evidence of UFO life.

If there is some sort of secret government conspiracy or cover up of a crash landing, it's obviously highly unlikely Mitchell's latest comments will convince the government to come clean.

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In my opinion...
By Amiga500 on 4/21/2009 11:52:39 AM , Rating: 5
Anyone that has any understanding of the shear size of the universe will know to state we are alone is simply idiotic!

By probability, there is almost certainly life out there - its just a matter of what form, how advanced, and how close to us.

[I suppose another important matter would be their intentions towards any other species they meet... but one step at a time!]




RE: In my opinion...
By omnicronx on 4/21/2009 12:16:31 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
By probability, there is almost certainly life out there - its just a matter of what form, how advanced, and how close to us.
Without a doubt this is most likely true. The problem is with all of these so called 'sightings' is how these aliens would have seen us in the first place. Considering we have only been an industrialized world for 200 years, and how long it would take light to travel to these other worlds in the first place, I just don't see how it would be possible for alien life to find us.

Essentially unless alien life forms have somehow figured out a way around the speed of light, stars within 200 light years of us would only start seeing activity on earth right now. Furthermore stars within 200 light years from earth can be measured i within the thousands (not billions upon billions), not to mention we have basically mapped out all star systems within 25 light years away already.


RE: In my opinion...
By FITCamaro on 4/21/09, Rating: -1
RE: In my opinion...
By omnicronx on 4/21/2009 12:46:52 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Haven't scientists admitted that something like warp drive is feasible, we just don't have the power for it?
Actually it was deemed impossible (for now :| ), but this is not what I am talking about.

I was more or less talking about an alien life form actually finding us from their planet, the same way currently look for extraterrestrial life. If the Hubble is looking at a star 200 light years away, you are not seeing the star as it is today, but as it was 200 years ago. The same would apply for an alien life form looking at us from their planet, unless of course they have somehow found away to see faster than the speed of itself. (Einstein is probably stirring in his grave just because I mentioned it).

As I said, I agree with the OP that life must exist elsewhere, I just don't believe extraterrestrial life form has ever come to earth.


RE: In my opinion...
By notolerance on 4/21/2009 8:08:30 PM , Rating: 5
Why some conspire that the US government is covering up the Presence of Extraterrestrial life baffles me. I mean, the earth is vast and I am certain there are countries out there, that if having had similar "said" encounters, the world would have heard loud and clear about it. Unless of course Earth has had a single encounter in the last few hundred years, and it did just happen to be in the States... to many "if's" for my liking...

So I agree, I highly doubt that they have been encountered on earth - but do believe they exist out there somewhere.


RE: In my opinion...
By dever on 4/22/2009 2:34:55 PM , Rating: 4
Let's also remember the amount of energy required for interstellar travel is enormous. Granted, no one would attempt to travel between stars with chemical rockets like ours... but if we tried, it would take about 800 years for us to get to the nearest star using a chemical rocket... and it would require the rocket be approximately the mass of all the known universe (to transport the cargo, its own fuel and to begin reversing its speed at the halfway point).

I find this to be a very useful reminder of how costly it would be for aliens to joyride through rural farmlands.

[*disclaimer: i got this interesting tidbit off of a discovery channel show on space, so take it as you will]


RE: In my opinion...
By MrBungle123 on 4/22/2009 5:27:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it would take about 800 years for us to get to the nearest star using a chemical rocket


not even close at 17,600 MPH (speed of the space shuttle in orbit) it would take 165,000 years to get to alpha centauri.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/080313-tw-...


RE: In my opinion...
By teflonbilly on 4/22/2009 11:27:43 PM , Rating: 3
The space shuttle is in orbit and not accelerating. If you accelerate for a while you will pick up a lot of speed. the shuttle could do that, though it would never come back.


RE: In my opinion...
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 8:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
Forget the space shuttle ... that's a child's tricycle when considering travel beyond the Moon's orbit.

For interstellar travel you need continuous acceleration over a long period of time. Ion and Plasma rockets would do. Then you need propellant, think several thousand mass tons of snowball. With this fuel supply the ship can refuel at a cold gas giant.

The exact flight time will depend on the acceleration the drive can deliver and the length of time that it can deliver that acceleration. Remember to leave enough fuel to decelerate and maneuver in system at the other end. The deceleration will be faster since your mass will be lowered by the amount of propellant you threw out while accelerating.

The 800 yrs is a reasonable estimate for the kind of snowball ship that was detailed in Analog magazine back in the 70s.

If a ramscoop ship can be designed then the trip will be faster since onboard fuel will only be used while accelerating to the minimum speed for scoop operation and decelerating from that speed later.


RE: In my opinion...
By juserbogus on 4/23/2009 7:25:48 PM , Rating: 2
Nuclear Pulsed propulsion could get us there in under 50 years.


RE: In my opinion...
By juserbogus on 4/23/2009 7:23:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why some conspire that the US government is covering up the Presence of Extraterrestrial life baffles me.
maybe the government has conspired to keep thing secret... but there are far too many unexplained happenings in just the US's history for me not to close the book on anything including conspiracy. Most don't even know how big project blue book and it's predecessors were or even why they were started in the first place and how they evolved to only report "solved" cases. there are documented sightings over DC 50's that cause President Truman to ask for an explanation. those same sightings sparked Congressional hearings on the subject. there are documented accounts of the air force launching pursuit craft. I'd never say these were aliens unless there was proof... but I would never say they were *not* unless I also had proof!


RE: In my opinion...
By SiliconDoc on 4/24/2009 3:30:19 AM , Rating: 1
Well you can't really have proof there are not, that cannot be reliably checked, the universe is infinite.
You can't even check recent earth history for NO aliens in a proveable way.
The problem now is the secrets were kept for national security during a world war and thereafter for cold war issues - and those demanding the info now are raging left wing communists who claim the continued secrecy will destroy the world. ( YES, that's what they claim - from global wamring to free energy to world peace, they argue it all hinges on Disclosure ).
So the ranting raving communist loons of the USA scream their terror against the "secret keepers" and expect cooperation. LOL
What they do is argue all sorts of reasons for Disclosure - but seemingly fail to realize they are screeding agianst the darkest recesses of the cold warriors and those who gave their lives and put down many to keep the west free.
They can't really see they are the enemy to these secret keepers now, and that they have declared themselves their absolute enemy.
I'm afraid we won't be getting much of anything ever, because these idiots trying to force it all out can't win with their plan and mindset and rhetoric.
I believe the secret powers will utterly destroy all evidence against them - in order to save themselves.
If these true believers had a lick of sense left, they would use that instead of raging left wing hatred coupled with fantasy dreaminess and absolute declarations of alien bodies in cold storage.
They would make sure they stated they know and understand the reasons why the secrets started and declare right up front they DEMAND immunity for all before the disclosure.
If they really believed everything they say, the immunity for those carrying out the 60 year policy of secrecy would be peanuts in the face of what they claim disclosure can offer the world and the entire human race.
But these fruitloops are raging monsters inside, and they won't do the right thing.


RE: In my opinion...
By SiliconDoc on 4/24/2009 3:18:11 AM , Rating: 1
Originally it was WW2 and post WW2 security - it was better to have it if enemy technology, or alien technology, and better to make the enemy thing it might be your own secret weapons. It worked exceedingly well for that.
Now it's almost the same reason - except the enemy is their fellow citizens on a raging left wing activism fest that have declared global warming, oil wars, the MIC, the cost of energy, indeed the entire destruction of eart emminent if the black ops area51 Roswell project bluebook secret government "doesn't give it all up, and now before the secret kills off humanity".
So you see, the very people demanding it all be made public, declare they will "execute" those who kept the secrets - and already blame them for every problem in the entire world.
That's not a very bright way to "get cooperation".
So the secret comes down to the same thing it always was - self preservation - formerly for the west and the nation, and now - for preservation more centered on a PERSONAL level - however the whole government(vs the secret compartments) realizes that letting go of the secrets will be very destabilizng to the whole government, as what else are you lying about will be the next topic forever -
So those wanting the secret files which definitely exist, have a very bad method of trying to get them released.
It's like telling some kid to hand over his lunch money, and when he does you'll murder him on the spot, and if he doesn't everyone in the world will die because he's evil.
Not much of a choice, really. The kid will keep the money in his pocket - say he doesn't have any, change the subject - anything but hand it over to the nutball ready to murder him as soon as he gets it. Disclosure, ain't gonna happen.


RE: In my opinion...
By juserbogus on 4/23/2009 7:03:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Actually it was deemed impossible (for now :| ), but this is not what I am talking about.
no, it wasn't deemed impossible.


RE: In my opinion...
By Exedore on 4/21/09, Rating: 0
RE: In my opinion...
By MozeeToby on 4/21/2009 3:12:52 PM , Rating: 4
Even that one, which was the most thoroughly thought out of the bunch, was recently proven to become unstable before it breaks the speed of light. It also assumes the existance of a negative energy density (meaning negative mass or negative energy) which so far hasn't been detected or predicted by our particle physics models.

As much as I want to believe faster than light travel/communication is possible, I just can't bring myself to do it. If Relativity is true, and all our experiments say that it is, then FTL violates causality.

I'm just not prepared to accept a universe where something in the future can affect something in the past. I suppose it isn't imposssible, but it would seem to raise some rather difficult questions about how the universe works.


RE: In my opinion...
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 8:38:59 PM , Rating: 2
Quantum Physics predicted instaneous action over distance and it has now been detected. Quantum entanglement is what is currently being used for demonstration of the effect. Einstein was aware of this prediction and felt that if true it would be a violation of the Theory of Relativity. He ignored this particular part of Quantum Theory since Relativity worked for everything else. Similar to Newtonian physics making correct predictions for most cases within an acceptable margin of error. Quantum physics predicts correctly that under some conditions the Newtonian calculations will be wrong. Measurements of the orbit of Mercury provided real world proof of this difference.

There are several theoretical methods of both time travel and FTL travel. The drawbacks though are that the travelers are unlikely to survive the trip.


RE: In my opinion...
By MozeeToby on 4/27/2009 2:07:37 AM , Rating: 2
All I can say is 'fail'. Entanglement and all other 'instantaneous' actions over distance don't violate relativity.

First and foremost, they don't transmit information. Say you entangle two electrons and send one off to another star system. Then you measure the spin of the one on earth to be positive and you therefore know for a fact that the spin on the other electron in positive. But there is no way to tell if a measurement was already made on the other electron, there is also no way to change the measurement on the other electron. Hence, there is no way to send information using entanglement.

Second, there is no such thing as 'instantaneous'. Someone traveling at near C will see two events as instantaneous that someone at rest relative to the events would see as happening at two different times.

Yeah, Newton was wrong, and yeah Einstein was wrong (maybe incomplete is a better word for wrong in both cases though). The important thing is that if time dilation is true, FTL directly implies a lack of causality. Since GPS works, we know time dilation is true (just read the GPS wiki page if you don't follow), therefore either FTL is impossible or causality isn't a fact of the universe.

There are all kinds of theories that allow for FTL, and they all, every one of them, require exotic matter/mass. That's mass with a negative mass or an imaginary mass, or negative energy. So far, no particle theories exist which allow for exotic matter and many scientists rule out exotic matter because it would make FTL possible and therefore break causality.


RE: In my opinion...
By Spuke on 4/21/2009 6:16:22 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If they had you'd think they'd pick someone other than rednecks to abduct.
Yeah, rednecks and anal probes. What's that all about?


RE: In my opinion...
By therealnickdanger on 4/21/2009 9:43:48 PM , Rating: 3
Well let's be honest, if you were attempting to stealthily study a race of beings, would you fly into the largest city and abduct a high-ranking politician in front of millions or would you go out into the rural areas and select a being under the influence of a fermented beverage?


RE: In my opinion...
By Lord 666 on 4/22/2009 3:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
Listen up you stinking maggots, it seems you just don't get it.
Well I've been appointed to inform you, your days are numbered.
You would cry, you would scream
If you knew half the things I see.
Please, please just do as I say,
Repent and leave your evil ways.

Meanwhile....planes drop from the sky,
People disappear and bullets fly.
Little grey men are coming our way,
(Tastes just like chicken, they say.)
Actually they're all around.
Secret bunkers underground.
Round 'em up, skin 'em alive,
Rolling, rolling, rolling, rawhide.

Carter is a clone.
Dozen brothers 'round the globe.
MJ-12 damned us to hell.
Scroll & Key, Skull & Bone.
It's only just begun.
The best is yet to come.
Area 51,
The spawn of Babylon.

Couldn't give a damn about J.F.K.,
Everything's conspiracy.
Wouldn't be surprised if they have their way
(Tastes just like chicken, they say.)
I know it's hard to swallow.
It must sound too far fetched.
But you can bet your bottom dollar
I ain't going like the rest.


RE: In my opinion...
By Lord 666 on 4/23/2009 9:42:14 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, I post lyrics to a song that are relevant to the article and it gets downrated.

Song = Animal Farm
Artist = Clutch
CD = Clutch


RE: In my opinion...
By mattclary on 4/21/2009 10:31:59 PM , Rating: 5
Rednecks are just the ones they throw back. You just don't hear about the keepers.


RE: In my opinion...
By raelalt on 4/22/2009 11:42:55 AM , Rating: 2
You win. Big time.


RE: In my opinion...
By Belard on 4/22/2009 3:14:53 PM , Rating: 2
And the Cattle the size of Schnauzers, but they're cattle.

I think some sort of strange probing was done to make those.


RE: In my opinion...
By vic5014 on 4/22/2009 9:30:22 PM , Rating: 3
give the man a 6!


RE: In my opinion...
By MozeeToby on 4/21/2009 3:25:04 PM , Rating: 5
Even giving us a 200 year envelope is probably being generous. High power transmissions didn't start until the 1940's and even those are overpowered and undecipherable by the time you get 50 light years out.

At best, stars 60 light years out will be just beginning to see a small (and relative to the sun, very small) increase in our radiation in the bands that we use.

Now, playing the devil's advocate (which I love to do) we should still have made contact with them if they exist and care about other civilizations. It isn't really that hard to make a probe that lands on a planet, gathers up raw materials, makes some copies of itself, and launches them off to the next 20 or so stars.

NASA even did a feasibility study on it before Project Orion (the old Project Orion, not the new moon rocket) was shut down. Using such a system, it would be possible to put a dozen probes in every single star system in the galaxy within a half of a million years. If aliens exist, it's a pretty good bet that at least one of them will be a few million years ahead of us: so, where are they?


RE: In my opinion...
By MrPoletski on 4/22/2009 11:45:17 AM , Rating: 4
Imagine this:

We are a spacefaring race and we come across a primitive species that clearly builds technology but has all the traits of the human race. Wars, religion based on 1000 year old texts, superstition, xenophobia and more...

Would you want to make contact? or would you choose to study them without interfering to learn more about your own races development.

Also, the advanced technology that we'd have, well that race simply would not be ready for it. Could you imagine if we transported thermonuclear weapons back 1000 years? would we still be here today?

If I were an alien race, I'd wait until humanity was ready to become part of an intergalactic community before letting them know there is one. I think we are nearly there, but there are still people in this world that would think a couple of guys coming down in a spaceship was some sort of visit from god or something.

Perhaps that's what happened last time, I mean...

angels came down to mary and told her stuff, they came from the skies with bright lights. Sounds awfully like a space ship.

I think God is the captain,
The angel of death the weapons officer
the angel of light the guy in charge of sensors (who was later arrested and sent to the brig for interfereing with humans and named lucifer)
the voice of god is obviously the communications officer

Mary shagged an alien.=)

And everyone thought it was some supernatural thing responsible for all existance when it was just some science vessel that went off course.

I mean if god is so powerful, why does he need these angel things? perhaps because angels are his power, his crew.

Maybe they don't want this crap happening again! it affects our development and any exterior influence on that can only be bad because they have contaminated their study sample.

you don't do a survey of IQ comparing two groups of people and club one group until they're brain damaged do you.


RE: In my opinion...
By TA152H on 4/22/2009 12:01:11 PM , Rating: 3
No offense, but you're an idiot.


RE: In my opinion...
By Belard on 4/22/2009 3:17:27 PM , Rating: 3
He may have a point.

But he most likely got it wrong with "Mary shagged an Alien"...

The Alien shagged her.


RE: In my opinion...
By MrPoletski on 4/24/2009 7:13:57 AM , Rating: 3
I'm waiting for a bible thumper to come along asking me why I hate Jesus or something hehe.


RE: In my opinion...
By MrPoletski on 4/24/2009 7:11:59 AM , Rating: 3
Do you understand the concept satire?


RE: In my opinion...
By michaelklachko on 4/22/2009 1:25:28 PM , Rating: 3
It isn't really that hard to make a probe that lands on a planet, gathers up raw materials, makes some copies of itself, and launches them off to the next 20 or so stars.


Yeah, just replace probe's operating system with a virus, and that will do it :-)

Replication of a spaceship is slightly more complicated than copy/paste operation in Windows. I hope you realize that just to land a probe on Mars is an enormous engineering feat, and building a device that can do it on its own requires many years of work of thousands of bright people, and dozens of factories with sophisticated tools.


RE: In my opinion...
By MozeeToby on 4/22/2009 2:41:03 PM , Rating: 2
You're assuming aliens at a technology level very similar to ours. There's no reason to expect that and, in fact, it would be statistically much more likely for aliens to be thousands if not millions of years beyond us technologically.

Look at how much things have changed in the past 10000 years and tell me that 10000 years from today we won't be able to build a self-replicating space probe.


RE: In my opinion...
By michaelklachko on 4/22/2009 3:18:23 PM , Rating: 2
I assumed you meant "why don't we build a self-replicating space probe right now".
I'm sure 30-50 years from now it will be possible. We just need to last that long for strong AI to emerge.


RE: In my opinion...
By Iger on 4/23/2009 8:43:42 AM , Rating: 4
I for one welcome our new self-replicating AI-empowered probe overlords.


RE: In my opinion...
By SiliconDoc on 4/24/2009 4:24:47 AM , Rating: 2
According to those who have "claimed to be in the know" the Roswell crash among others had aliens that were genetic manipulations of some sort that became part and parcel an extension of the spacecraft itself, it's navigational system, and is the reason why our duplication efforts have so far failed. (Col. Phillip Corso claim among others, and if anyone's story is to be believed, that fella is at least an honest one from what I've heard and seen in comparison.)
So anyway, the self replicating probe idea is a bit off IMO, because finding a landing spot with enough varied minerals and ores, plus the capacity on the ship itself to manufacture a duplicate comes from the latest nanobot hyperactivity in the dreamers gourgons (that's their insanely bulbous lips and noggins).
If there are duplicators they are gigantic with a large population and loads of storage for the required tool items.
The new little eggheads have been taught by their communist overlord money grant securing haters anything is possible and we are held back by the secret keepers (big oil for one they love to scream about), and the earth is soon to melt, and they deal today in theories, and yes, as you pointed out, copying and pasting computer code - often at the highest level.
As far as production of said theories or items, that could ruin the gaia mother earth and destroy us all, so that type of hands on production is discouraged.
The dark secret shadow government though, will "do anything", even mother earth forbid, kill rats for science, so they must have discovered all the reverse engineering tricks and freee enrgy devices already.
Perhaps the Disclosure Project should be called "gank the secret technology and save the world heroes club".
I just loved it when Obama's top science appointee said the new green technologies are waiting to "materialize".
Yep, that is the exact word - "materialize".
On the internet the secret of perpetual free power, dimensional travel, water cars, mind control, world peace, and all the rest are hidden away from all the yakkers by the superevil - if only the yakkers would be listened to all wars and disasters could be averted forever.
Oh, and it all exists already - and we don't have it because those holding it back are evil and greedy murderers...
Jiminy crickets.
Oh, and replicating probes are easy, too - so where are the visitors ? add in the shadow government to get to where they are - of course...


RE: In my opinion...
By TSS on 4/22/2009 1:27:05 PM , Rating: 2
they've been studying us from behind their cloack devices only 1 failed and crashed in roswell.

... no seriously for a minute. wasn't it just announced astronomers found a planet twice the size of earth just 20,5 lightyears away? now it's too close to the sun to harbor life, but if there's a planet in that same system more distant from the sun, it wouldn't be so crazy to think there might be life there. and we wouldn't have been able to detect it yet, due to the star overpowering the planet's reflection, and the planet's minute effect on the sun's "wobble".

and 20 lightyears is more then enough for them to know our current situation, or where it's headed to. but consider this.

why would we try and contact an alien civilisation that's less advanced then us? what good would it do us to contact say, humans from 100 years ago? i don't think it'll do them any good either.

if there are aliens our there smarter then us, they've probably already thought of the above.


RE: In my opinion...
By kattanna on 4/21/2009 4:07:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Considering we have only been an industrialized world for 200 years, and how long it would take light to travel to these other worlds in the first place, I just don't see how it would be possible for alien life to find us.


LOL it always gives me a chuckle that people think aliens would only want to visit us. our planet has had life for billions of years, so by that measure would have been an interesting destination for quite some time.

plus, for all we know, to them, we are just slightly less hairy monkeys of no more interest then the rest of the creatures here.


RE: In my opinion...
By BikeDude on 4/22/2009 10:46:15 AM , Rating: 1
The poster's point wasn't that we were an undesirable location. The point is that until quite recently, our planet was impossible to find. Now, thanks to radio transmissions and other modern activitiy, we're no longer impossible to spot. Now we're almost impossible to spot.

Finding the needle in a haystack is much easier.


RE: In my opinion...
By TA152H on 4/22/2009 11:49:56 AM , Rating: 1
Actually, any advanced civilization could detect us, since there's abundant Oxygen in the air. Oxygen doesn't last long by itself without life. Even we look for it in other planets, so, we really would not be so hard to find.


RE: In my opinion...
By MozeeToby on 4/22/2009 12:25:42 PM , Rating: 2
That would seem to imply that any planet with life is interesting, basically that any planet with life necessarily has intelligent life. It's entirely possible that there are hundreds of thousands of planets with life for each planet with intelligence.

After all, life existed on earth for almost 4 billion years before we came around, there hasn't been intelligence on Earth for 99.99% of the time life has existed.


RE: In my opinion...
By drank12quartsstrohsbeer on 4/22/2009 3:01:20 PM , Rating: 3
yes, but and advanced civilization would probably study us in the same way that scientists study other animals.

Scientist take great pains to not interfere. They stay out of sight, observe and report.

Aliens landing in Washington DC and making contact makes about as much sense as a scientist walking into the middle of a flock of birds and saying "Take me to your leader"


RE: In my opinion...
By SiliconDoc on 4/25/2009 1:39:25 AM , Rating: 2
I don't disagree, but frankly I can see Jane Goodall speaking in gorilla, and asking her "brothers and sisters" to take her to their leader. In fact, she did do that. She also arrived in front of Congress and hooted and whooped in gorilla holler language.
So don't be so certain there aren't some real progressive, adoring kookballs with grey skin and big noggins and slanty large eyes.
It might be stupid, but believe me, they will try to pull it off, even if it kills them.


RE: In my opinion...
By Belard on 4/22/2009 3:33:58 PM , Rating: 2
I DON'T AGREE That we're hard to spot.

In the past 20 years, with new tech that is starting to surpass the Hubble. We have found hundreds of planets, and recenly in the past 12~18 months have spotted closer to earth-size bodies and their relation to their stars.

So what happens in another 10~20 years with our obversation tech? Think back to WW-1, our "observation" tech was a guy with binoculars in a blimp/airship.
WWII - we used airplanes and cameras to see ground targets.. detail level was that you could spot small and large buildings.

If you told some guy in 1940 that in 50 years, we'd have able to read the numbers off a licence plates from space - that would have blown their mind, a fantasy. Remember, in 1940 - we've been flying for less than 40 years and toilet paper was "new" tech as well.

So aliens from outer space, if they are 100~300years more advanced than we are - could easily spot a blue planet... and are MORE interested.

So far, while there are BILLIONS of star systems out there (Almost all with planets), most of them do not contain a "perfect" like support system. Mars = almost makes it, but too cold, no magnetic field and too low a gravity to hold a good atmospehere. Venus, too hot. But there could be forms of microscopic life on Mars and elsewhere in our own solarsystem. And such finding means.... life exists out there.

So an alien race looking for other life will be interested in the Earth. And maybe coming by to "check out" the funny creaters watching how they develop. Not much different from our own scientist who watch sea creatures, etc.

BTW: if an alien drops by with Space-Cash... tell the Space police about it.


RE: In my opinion...
By Spivonious on 4/22/2009 11:42:47 AM , Rating: 2
Wormholes get around the speed of light by bending it.


RE: In my opinion...
By Reclaimer77 on 4/21/09, Rating: 0
RE: In my opinion...
By Belard on 4/22/2009 3:38:48 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah... and the Earth is flat.

Sorry, just like God doesn't say anything about Cel-phones in your bibles, doesn't make them the manuals we should limit ourselves to. Written by men ablout history or fables.


RE: In my opinion...
By Clienthes on 4/22/2009 7:41:37 PM , Rating: 1
I thought about just voting this down, but I thought I should point out why I would have voted you down instead. Your post:

assumed, without any good reason, that the previous poster holds a particular point of view.

was offensive to anyone who doesn't hold your particular point of view.

was condescending.

was off-topic.

was just outright stupid.

You're an atheist. Good for you. There have been many, many people in the history of the world that were much, much more intelligent and educated that you obviously are who were/are not. You might want to re-think your self-righteous attitude. Sort of puts your attitude on the same level as the Bible-thumpers.

Assuming you're right in your religious preference, off-topic tantrums aren't going to convince anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs with regard to everything except physics and math. Which, by the way, was what the post you made your reply to was attempting to point out (I think; Reclaimer can correct me on this if I'm wrong). Your mathematical error. Chance of other life != 100%, until you can prove they exist. You can't.


RE: In my opinion...
By Tsuwamono on 4/23/2009 12:51:40 AM , Rating: 3
Why is he Athiest because he doesnt believe an an organized religion? Aside from that point, i agree with everything else you said.

I however dont conform to one particular religion. For me, faith is something personal and can't be taught or forced on someone or it isnt Their faith.. its someone elses.

And as for the bible well... personally i think its a joke. I have read 4 different versions cover to cover and there are tons of variations. After seeing the varations i started searching for other people seeing this too and i found a bunch of books that saw these too.

Check out Jesus-Interrupted, Fabricating Jesus, Misquoting truth, Lost Christianities, etc. I found them very intriguing.

And just for those who are going to flame the shit out of me for my beliefs YES I have read the bible. as i said before, i read 4 different versions. I was baptised Protestant and went to a Catholic school. I just tend to question everything, doesnt mean im ignorant.


RE: In my opinion...
By amanojaku on 4/21/2009 7:45:44 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I suppose another important matter would be their intentions towards any other species they meet... but one step at a time!

That's obvious. Humans, being dumb, would seek to control and dominate foreign species.

Aliens are intelligent enough to:

a) Get into space
b) Travel through large distances in space in an alien lifetime
c) Not die in the process
d) Not kill each other in the process
e) Not kill themselves out of boredom (the entertainment MUST be HOT!!! )

Their intentions would be well thought out, practical, and efficient:

a) Find a college campus
b) Find the hottest chicks
c) Throw a bangin' party
d) Literally; the music would be stellar, the space-pot would be out of this world, and the orgy would be cosmic
e) Wash, rinse, repeat in some other town
f) Report back home and say they found no intelligent life
g) Request an extended tour


RE: In my opinion...
By SiliconDoc on 4/25/2009 12:40:54 AM , Rating: 2
The DUMBEST thing the idiot leftist retards say on this topic goes something like this: "Would you make contact with the violent human species? We put nuclear bombs in space !"
Then the supposed genius uses that as their jackass of the universe point for not having an alien corpse in their basement to poke.
That of course, is RAMPANT in the highest reaches of political entities like the XPAC, and the Disclosure Project.
When their spokespeople open their insane yaps and squeal "we need the secret technology before we kill ourselves off" all the anti-bible thumpers move right past that and weep in their diapers about vietnam like horrors swirling through their minds.
If you point out we not all dead, and world population is near 7 billion, the ranting freaks remain in their fantasy world and scream if we only evolved there would be peace on earth. Then you try to take thei notepad and they punch you in the shoulder and give you a dirty look, and ask you to take it outside...
This is the REALITY, and if we didn't have a bunch of insane gourgons walking around yapping their craphole about world peace and free energy - they might actually get somewhere - but the people guarding the secrets know the whiners are nut bat insane - and so should eeryone else.
Indeed everyone but their own ideaological whining core knows they are - NUT BAT INSANE.
Aliens may very well be "as violent as humans" and may very well have much more advanced weapons than we - but the tard crew watched the movie ET and cry when they think of a glwing finger - this is their FLAT EARTH - in their flat kookball noggin atop their spindly neck that can barely support their 2 watt bulb atop it.


RE: In my opinion...
By illuvatar81 on 4/21/09, Rating: 0
RE: In my opinion...
By MrBungle123 on 4/22/2009 2:23:50 PM , Rating: 3
it is if you only make a single attempt. Its like winning the lottery, any one person has almost no chance of winning but when millions are trying all the time, it happens with relatively high frequency.


RE: In my opinion...
By clovell on 4/22/2009 4:16:03 PM , Rating: 2
These odds are vastly different from those of playing the lottery. Don't let the traditional concepts of infinity fool you, most physicists and cosmologists agree that the universe and its contents are countable.

The statistics behind identifying the 'probability' of other intelligent life in the universe is currently an exercise in statistical gamesmanship, and relies more on warm fuzzies than mathematics.

It does start the discussion towards a rigorous end, but it by no means ends it.


RE: In my opinion...
By MrBungle123 on 4/22/2009 5:13:20 PM , Rating: 2
What I was responding to was the argument that life cannot exist as a result of natural processes because the odds are too small.

On a personal note I tend to fall more along the lines that life as we know it is the result of the chemical composition of the early earth. Life arised because the conditions were right and would have done the same thing in any other location in the universe under the same conditions.

Kind of like if you assigned a number to a bunch of hydrogen and oxygen atoms put them in an enclosed space and heat it to 1000 degrees... what are the odds you will get molecules of water containing the specific atoms you're looking for?

If you performed this experiment and took a tally of what ended up where and then tried to work backwards mathematically the odds of getting the atoms to align in that way are virtually impossible statistically... but it happened. we should be studying WHY these things happen instead of trying to figure out if it’s possible for them to happen exactly the way they did, because the statistics are meaningless.


RE: In my opinion...
By SiliconDoc on 4/25/2009 2:10:44 AM , Rating: 2
The problem is you claimed it happened, but the truth is noone knows, let alone understands what happened.
Molecular biologists claim along with other theorists it is ridiculous to think it all just started on it's own.
If you take the very first assumption, that life arose out of the gurgling earth, it behooves one to explain in the processes we are aware of how that might occur.
Explanations are sadly, non-existent.
That's what has caused an issue and the ID people to start arguing...
If one thinks as a layperson, it is very difficult to srumise how this or that atom, joins up with a few million more, and swirls itself into a strand of dna - or any other "building block" for life.
Not even the sceintists have a valid explanation they can proffer - not for lack ing trying - thousands of frankenstein experiments have been tried - with just the right mixture and conditions and lightning and heat and sun and all the rest - and all fail..
Things are already so complex by the time biologists call it life, it may well be impossible for it to have occurred by random chances.
I certainly don't know the answer any more than you do, and noone is privvy in this case.
Until life can be created in the lab from scratch elements and natural earthly compounds, there won't be much to say it just happened other than pure speculation.
That's really all there is at this point - and it is difficult in the extreme once one gets down to atoms and molecules magically "combining" and something suddenly "becoming alive" - and then who knows how many of those "chances" occurring before one of those has another million atoms attached just right, by accident, and it moves up the scale ... and I'd most certainly love to see the first single cell "replication" - that apparently arose in utter spontaniety - that the microbiologists claim is a ten billion additional component process to occur at the cellular level.
So at the very least, we certainly have no clue even at this late scientific date, how this could have happened, and because of the strange frankenstein nature of every step - where whole processes seems to have been "sewed on the mutated" all at once to get to next step up in life - they cannot even formulate a scenario where it "might" by endless chances, happen to occur.
So it's not cut and dried and certainly not solved and definitely not as simple nor as possible as one might imagine at first thought.


RE: In my opinion...
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 9:07:26 PM , Rating: 2
The chemical theory says that life started when some molecules were formed that reacted in a way that caused more copies of the molecules to be created. Small changes made by copy errors then created variants that were more efficient ... Life as we know it was off and running.

Intelligent Design in all forms says that somewhere somehow an Intelligence evolved out of the cosmic noise. This Intelligence then developed a technology that allowed it to sculpt an entire universe including chemical machines with self awareness and others that are capable of complex self replication (we call these animals, plants, bacteria etc.)

Personally I find the chemical theory more likely. Since ID requires that the Creator exist without being created itself.

This is where every ID theory I've ever come across falls down.

Life is too complex to arise from random chemical reactions. Therefore the Creator designed the universe and set it going.

A Creator capable of this feat is too complex to arise from random chemical reactions. Therefore the Creator Creator designed the Creator and set it going.

A Creator capable of this feat is too complex to arise from random chemical reactions. Therefore the Creator Creator Creator designed the Creator Creator and set it going.

A Creator capable of this feat is too complex to arise from random chemical reactions. Therefore the Creator Creator Creator Creator designed the Creator Creator Creator and set it going.

Uhm this argument involves an infinity, so I'll stop here with enough to show the pattern :P

The usual response to this is: You must believe because we have the revealed TRUTH.


RE: In my opinion...
By geddarkstorm on 4/22/2009 4:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
How do you make multiple attempts at making a universe? Where there multiple big bangs over and over again in our same "space", until one "got it right"? Or were all possible attempts and physical constant permutations made and segregated out into separate universes (parallel realities)? (There in, our universe is just one solution set possible, and everything, including my typing this, is a predetermined outcome of that set) That would take an awfully lot of energy... infinite probably. And what would determine the temporal start point for all these events? I guess it would simply BE, and then only if a universe started "correctly" would time as we know it also start?


RE: In my opinion...
By MrBungle123 on 4/22/2009 5:19:15 PM , Rating: 2
I don't place a mulit-verse beyond the realm of possibility but I'm not going to pretend to have any sort of hard answers for your questions.


RE: In my opinion...
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 9:17:31 PM , Rating: 2
In all the universes where conditions are wrong for life there is no one considering this question. By definition if there is a life form in the universe considering the question, then that universe no matter how unlikely has conditions that allow life to evolve to a state of self awareness with the ability and desire to study the universe.

Just like the lottery. The winner pockets the money and doesn't need to worry about the odds against. If you add the restriction that no one can mention the purchase of a lottery ticket unless they win the jackpot, then you'll have a very biased view of the odds.


RE: In my opinion...
By TA152H on 4/22/09, Rating: -1
RE: In my opinion...
By rdeegvainl on 4/22/2009 12:33:28 PM , Rating: 3
wouldn't this god type character you speak of, be considered life?


RE: In my opinion...
By MozeeToby on 4/22/2009 12:41:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In other words, if there is a God, or a guiding force, or whatever you want to call it, it's very possible there is only life here.
If we're the only thinking beings in the universe, that seems like an awful lot of wasted space.

Seriously though, it's interesting to me that more than 1400 years ago, philosophers and religious thinkers were making almost the exact opposite statements that you make. They believed that God would never have suns and planets that weren't inhabited. This was the basic philosophy that was followed by most philosophers right up until we got the first up close images of Mars.


RE: In my opinion...
By MrBungle123 on 4/22/2009 1:09:03 PM , Rating: 4
Why don't we just go with the best explanation for what happened based on the evidence that we do have instead of trying to think up all the different possibilites our imaginations can come up with?

The universe came into being as the result of a singularity with an unknown cause, expanded to its current size, and because of physics and chemistry the planets and stars self assembled over billions of years. Thats it... thats what our current data says... until we get more data the rest is speculation and to assume our speculations are correct is simply appealing to ignorance.


RE: In my opinion...
By callmeroy on 4/23/2009 9:35:46 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
In other words, if there is a God, or a guiding force, or whatever you want to call it, it's very possible there is only life here.


We are all entitled to our beliefs, but I find it incredibly illogical to conclude we are the only "intelligent" life in existence. For crying out loud we can, today, with the use of the Hubble telescope view 700 quintillion galaxies --- do you know how vast ONE galaxy is?

Btw, I thought religion would eventually be mentioned in this discussion -- as I've read about Atheism points of view and what not....I am not your regular average Christian -- but yes I do believe in God. At the same time I wholly reject the notion that so many Christians think "well the bible doesn't mention any other alien worlds or anything so God only made us"....first as far as the bible goes -- my view is everyone -- believers and non-believers alike shouldn't blindly and literally take what's written in the bible w/o thoroughly thinking about it and questioning it. Why? The bible was written by man -- not God. I personally and deeply believe that God wants me to question him - both his meaning and his existence...I feel that's what builds faith. I probably question my faith more than any Athiest every could.

But anyway I'm going off on a tangent -- short version -- I have a strong belief in God, but I still think we are not alone.

Fun Fact Btw: Big Bang is a misleading term --- there was no bang and it wasn't big. Sound can't travel in space , therefore no bang. As for big - the universe was once smaller than a single atom. Then it grew and grew -- one time you could have held the universe in your hand like a softball.


RE: In my opinion...
By Oregonian2 on 4/22/2009 2:16:53 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Anyone that has any understanding of the shear size of the universe will know to state we are alone is simply idiotic! By probability, there is almost certainly life out there - its just a matter of what form, how advanced, and how close to us.


Absolutely true. I actually don't even have trouble with the old idea the space is infinite in size which would statistically guarantee advanced intelligent life in the universe.

BUT!!! Those very statistics about the HUGE sized of the universe used to (properly) prove the likelihood of multiple other intelligent life entities in the universe simultaneously proves the very high improbability of that life finding US, let alone visiting us. We're an insignificant spec on the edge of an insignificant galaxy. The number of such advanced cultures capable of interstellar travel (getting around the speed of light problem) is an even smaller subset of the intelligent-life estimates, so the likelihood of them finding or even detecting us is all the more nearly zero in probability.

So yes, they're probably out there, but no they probably don't know we even exist.


RE: In my opinion...
By pequin06 on 4/22/2009 3:53:35 PM , Rating: 2
Yes and no.
Life starts somewhere and what if Earth is the first to have life?
There is a probability that there is no other life in the universe, it hasn't yet developed somewhere else, or that it will never ever develop somewhere else and that we will always be alone.


RE: In my opinion...
By bety on 4/22/2009 5:58:29 PM , Rating: 2
No. It is simplistic thinking like this, so common today, that is "idiotic". We simply do not know enough about "life" and the parameters within which is can develop/exist to make any serious statement about it. This is partly because WE HAVE NO DATA. We only have 1 "case", ours!

You can blather on and on about how their MUST be a grain of sand that looks just like, and talks just like, Richard Nixon, but having a high number of chances does not in itself tell you much.

As others have pointed out, the sheer size of the universe also works against the scenario of us being visited by aliens. In fact, we require a species that has a very high level of technology (we dont' even have 1 example of this, since it's well beyond us)and exists temporally and spatially near enough to us to be aware of us and to allow them to visit.

There is absolutely no guarantee that there is life out there and even less that it is visiting us. Regardless of what I'd like to think.


RE: In my opinion...
By vic5014 on 4/22/2009 9:16:37 PM , Rating: 2
the answer I remember from a biology class in college is that physicists and chemists tend to believe there is extraterrestrial life, while biologists disagree. The physicists and chemists point to the sheer number of stars (and, likely, planets) in just our own galaxy while biologists say the odds against the evolution of life on earth are so improbably high that no other complex life-forms are likely to exist. They argue that the odds of even the most basic protein evolving by random chance is too high. I believe that if you do the math, you'd conclude there's something weird going on since the probabilities suggests even 10-20 billion years simply isn't long enough for even simple proteins to have evolved. I think the example given was that computing the number of possible combinations resulting in just a 20 amino-acid protein vastly exceeds 20 billion. Oddly enough, I've got a biology degree but am firmly convinced there must be other life out there somewhere, the only debate for me is how advanced and intelligent that life is. Interestingly, the professor's personal belief was that the evolution of proteins is not entirely random, that there may be some organizing principle that explains the discrepancy. this principle is not the same as intelligent design, by the way (more like chaos theory). He was a biologist not creationist nutjob.


RE: In my opinion...
By vic5014 on 4/22/2009 9:22:29 PM , Rating: 2
that should be either that the odds of proteins evolving by chance are too low or that the odds against are too high.


RE: In my opinion...
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 9:34:08 PM , Rating: 2
The lack of randomness is in the chemistry. certain reactions are more likely than others. The structure of the molecule also affects the probability of certain reactions. So structures that are more likely to produce self replicating structures will be the most likely to exist. Simple probability ensures that this will be the pattern since the self replicating molecules will be created more often then the ones that arise solely from random combinations.

... living organisms are very complicated aggregations of elementary parts, and by any reasonable theory of probability or thermodynamics highly improbable. That they should occur in the world at all is a miracle of the first magnitude; the only thing which removes, or mitigates, this miracle is that they reproduce themselves. Therefore, if by any peculiar accident there should ever be one of them, from there on the rules of probability do not apply, and there will be many of them, at least if the milieu is reasonable.

John von Neumann, Theory of Self-Reproducing Automata

A few links return by the Google search: artificial life self replicating molecules
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Artificial-Life-Mig...
http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/10...
http://cogprints.org/2888/
http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~sipper/selfrep/


RE: In my opinion...
By Longrifle on 4/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: In my opinion...
By RoberTx on 4/23/2009 4:07:46 PM , Rating: 2
What probabilities would that be?


Like chimps on word processors
By Dorkyman on 4/21/2009 11:54:05 AM , Rating: 2
The fact that something COULD exist doesn't mean that it does, or that it will ever show itself within a reasonable timeframe.

To resurrect that old chestnut, put 1,000 chimps (real chimps, not members of Congress) in front of 1,000 word processors and encourage them to bang away on the keyboard. Probability theory insists that it is absolutely CERTAIN that eventually, even with banging on the keys randomly, one of them will type out a perfect copy of Shakespeare's Hamlet. It's all a matter of probability and how long you're willing to wait.

Similarly, it is virtually CERTAIN that identical conditions exist out there, somewhere, for a similar intelligent life form to exist. But there's a lot of space out there. The chances of running into such a life form are maybe 0.00000000000000000001%. Not zero, but not very likely, in my view.




RE: Like chimps on word processors
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 4/21/2009 12:16:49 PM , Rating: 3
People have been working on the math for some time now. The Drake equation is what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_Equation


RE: Like chimps on word processors
By Boze on 4/21/2009 2:21:31 PM , Rating: 2
I've read this equation before, and I've listened to an audio recording of Dr. Michael Crichton's speech at CalTech back in 2003. In fact, the article you linked from Wikipedia even has a portion of his quote about the Drake equation:

quote:
The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. [...] As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless...


I would tend to agree with him. While I want to believe there is other intelligent life, and I want to encounter it in my lifetime, I don't particularly hold out hope for it - the deck is simply stacked too high against me at this point. Faster-than-light travel would need to be developed, sustainable starships capable of many years long missions, and even once we encounter some humanoid lifeform, we still have to learn to communicate with them. That could take weeks or it could take years depending on how their communications evolved. Even more interesting, how do you communicate with a lifeform that has absolutely no frame of reference with your species? On Earth, you can point to a cup and say "cup", over and over, until the person you're communicating with eventually says in reply to you, "cup" in their language. There are no guarantees another species of lifeform would develop "cup". Maybe they simply absorb water through their skin, who the heck knows...

Ugh, sorry for my tangent there!


By General Disturbance on 4/21/2009 2:36:00 PM , Rating: 3
You're absolutely right. The Drake Equation is only a toy - a fun one for sure - but still a toy at this point. You can calculate zero or millions or billions of other intelligent races.
HOWEVER, you must ALSO compute the error of the estimate to really have a scientific result. Do it through quadrature. Given that some of the parameters are known with 100% uncertainty (or near that), and that those errors all add together for so many parameters, it becomes apparent that the millions or billions of races "result" has an uncertainty of 10's or 100's of millions or billions.

Making the calculated answer totally useless.

And that's why the Drake Equation is, for now, a fun toy for stoking the imagination. When we have some of the parameters better determined, it will be more useful.

Of course you also have the Singulataritist view that we must be the only intelligent species in the universe.

There may be different ways from which to attack the question of other life in the universe that don't rely on the Drake Equation.


RE: Like chimps on word processors
By TheDoc9 on 4/21/2009 3:45:56 PM , Rating: 2
My whole issue with aliens are the microbes involved. Unless both species are very similar then even being in the same room could be deadly to one or both. Even if they are identical it would take 20 years of research to determine the effects of the millions of bacteria and viruses that would likely be on both species from other planets and how they interact between the two species. Even then it might be extremely dangerous.

The true test of our bodies resilience will be meeting these species if they exist, and surviving a handshake.


By omnicronx on 4/21/2009 3:59:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The true test of our bodies resilience will be meeting these species if they exist, and surviving a handshake.
Its true, just ask the victims of the biggest genocide in the history of mankind. (North and South American Indians/Aboriginals) ;)

And this is just from one continent to another, just imagine one world to another.


RE: Like chimps on word processors
By InsaneGain on 4/21/2009 5:47:02 PM , Rating: 2
Microbes have evolved very specific features that allow them to survive and reproduce only in the conditions that their particular hosts provide. A virus adapted for attaching to specific receptors on the cell membrane of plant will not be able to do the same thing to the cells of a human. So I think it is extremely unlikely that a virus or bacteria adapted for infecting a completely unrelated alien life form would be dangerous for humans.


RE: Like chimps on word processors
By aegisofrime on 4/22/2009 9:24:55 AM , Rating: 2
Viruses are specific, yes. Bacteria, not so. If those aliens were made of organic materials, or anything that bacteria can break down, they might still be infected.

Put simply, a bacteria infection is simply the bacteria colonizing an organism, so if an alien was carbon based they might still be susceptible.


RE: Like chimps on word processors
By ice456789 on 4/22/2009 2:48:06 PM , Rating: 2
If that were true, then sinus infections would be passed from animals to humans. When I got an ear infection, my dog would catch it. If I went outside and touched a butterfly that had an infection, I would get it.

Bacteria are specialized. Maybe they can't live unless the host temperature and chemistry is just right. Maybe they can't multiply unless the environment is perfect. Perhaps they can live and thrive and do no damage whatsoever to the host (like the bacteria in your mouth and stomach that help you break down food) but are deadly to another host.

Bacteria can eventually adapt, but you're talking about scores of generations. Plenty of time for an alien race to kill us all before they caught an infection.


RE: Like chimps on word processors
By TheDoc9 on 4/22/2009 6:02:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If that were true, then sinus infections would be passed from animals to humans. When I got an ear infection, my dog would catch it. If I went outside and touched a butterfly that had an infection, I would get it.


A lot of this is the degree of the exposure.


By mindless1 on 4/22/2009 8:09:38 PM , Rating: 2
You're overlooking mutations. With seemingly uncountable numbers of bacteria they need not necessarily adapt, only that a few that are mutated can survive and multiply.


By s12033722 on 4/21/2009 11:43:40 AM , Rating: 5
Like driving across multiple states in a diaper to confront a person in a love triangle.

I'm sorry, but just because the guy went to the moon doesn't give him any more credibility on this particular subject, in my opinion. As far as Roswell goes, I am pretty satisfied with the concept that the government lost something classified there, then used the UFO mania as a cover-up just as the internal memoes now released from that time state.




By FITCamaro on 4/21/2009 12:33:36 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah it was likely an experimental aircraft. I won't completely discount the possibility of an alien craft landing there, but that's where I'd put my money.


So was this guy just released from a "facility"?
By fatedtodie on 4/21/2009 11:37:19 AM , Rating: 4
While there may be aliens, or there may not that is beside the point. I think this guy is loony tunes and the fact that he was from roswell makes his claim that much less credible.




By omnicronx on 4/21/2009 1:16:18 PM , Rating: 2
He also claims he was cured from cancer a few years back by some kid in Vancouver from thousands of miles away.


Assumptions
By Amiga128 on 4/22/2009 3:12:29 PM , Rating: 2
1st point
If aliens exist we assume they
1) are from this universe.
2) are from this dimension
3) are from this time
4) are from this multiverse and so on.

This means aliens could be trillions of trillions of years more advanced than us.
Don't forget that eventually this universe would end by expansion ,big crunch or other ways such as crashing into another universe, so eventually humans themselves would need to leave this universe.

2nd point
The distance between them and us is irrelevant as this based on the technology they have. 1000's of years ago if you asked a caveman to go to Australia from Britain it would take decades or be impossible as boats were not invented, today it takes around 12 to 24 hours

3rd point
Energy needed is also irrelevant as the same as distance as this is based on technology. No matter how much energy is needed energy cannot be destroyed, humans have problems manipulating atoms what happens if aliens have the ability to manipulate dark matter, quarks , string theory or more exotic types of energy

4th point
As for the reason aliens are here, they could be for
1) They put us here
2) Other aliens told them we are here.
3) They have advanced technology in predicting planets with life like us. Imagine mini wormhole nano robots, jump around the universe scanning for life and send back info and coordinates when needed.
4) They found as by luck. Just like we find tribes in the amazon jungle.




RE: Assumptions
By SiliconDoc on 4/24/2009 4:39:43 AM , Rating: 2
I'll agree with some of your points.
1. Yes, aliens could be many more years than thousands or millions advanced than we. I sensed a lot of fear or ignorance with the numbers spewing forth.
X. The idea there are multiple universes is part and parcel of the new age drug induced psychosis and kookball crackpot grant industry - and the interent - amongst other things.
The very definition of Universe precludes it being contained or there being multiple universe. The new age tards of the world have entirely forgotten basic definitions in favor of wild speculation and fun (not to mention computer game storylines).
Yesterday some Disclosure freak declared known 30 dimensions because she claimed "modern theory" has discovered that many. Theories aren't discoveries, another problem the lunatics forgot about as their lips flapped.
As definitions are more and more loosely applied in the hyperactive sensationalism of the modern communications boom, more and more pinheads spew out ridiculous notions that deliver the wrong impression, miseducate many, and wind up being nothing more than idiotic spew and entertainment, not science. Call 1-800-Diablo for the multiverse.
2nd point. I agree, distance is irrelevant when we think about the reports on what their craft do.
3rd point. Also a good one, not too detailed as it can't be at this point, but it makes the logical conclusion apparent.
4th point. Also fine.
We largely agree friend, glad to see someone else has a mind to think, and uses it.


RE: Assumptions
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 9:49:25 PM , Rating: 2
In a multi-verse theory, Universe does not mean "All that can possibly exist" Instead it becomes a label that is applied to a cosmic object. Other such labels are moon, planet, star, galaxy, cluster ... Universe simply describes an object so big that an observer can only see the one the observer is in. Not being able to see a neighboring "universe" is not the same as knowing it does not exist.


Area 51
By rudolphna on 4/22/2009 4:59:13 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
though some people believe there is some type of secret base in the desert.


THERE IS!!! I can DRIVE you to it! God almighty there IS A military base in the middle of nowhere near groom dry lake, nevada. that the government denies exists, and there IS a secret airline "JANET" to ferry workers to and from. Whether it houses aliens or not I dont know, but the facility itself definitely exists.

http://theunexplainedmysteries.com/images/area51wa...
I especially like the "deadly force authorized" on the top left one.

http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/01...




RE: Area 51
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 9:53:49 PM , Rating: 2
The delightful irony is; the photograph of the sign that clearly says photography is prohibited :P


RE: Area 51
By Fritzr on 4/25/2009 10:15:54 PM , Rating: 2
Gotta Say it
By jcbond on 4/21/2009 2:09:44 PM , Rating: 4
Scully is HAWT .




Assume...
By jimmy27 on 4/21/2009 5:54:18 PM , Rating: 2
Assume that Aliens exist and have developed high speed travel. Also assume that they are curious about their surroundings and or are looking for something in specific in the universe. Just as we explore new islands and other areas of the planet to see what is there or hoping to find something in particular, so too could the aliens have happened across our planet at any point in history. They do not need to have 200 light years to have found a place. And, one more assumption, assume that they marked it on their map when they came, saw some interesting things and thought, "We'll check on this one from time to time." With the Universe as big and old as it is, are these assumptions unreasonable? Maybe. Maybe not.




RE: Assume...
By mindless1 on 4/23/2009 1:36:19 AM , Rating: 2
Assume that as far away as their home planet must have been, they must at this stage be nomadic and be the seeders of our planet to have known we were here, seeders who have remained in the local vicinity, are back to check up on what progress we have made since then.


I really have my doubts, but...
By bigdawg1988 on 4/21/2009 11:25:45 PM , Rating: 2
I really have doubts about these government cover ups. Some drunk somewhere would have spilled the beans by now, but then, the F117 flew for years before most people knew.

I'm always curious about the number of UFO sightings. I would think that beings who could see us from many light years away and have the technology to visit us would also have the ability to observe us from orbit WITHOUT BEING SEEN themselves. On the other hand, maybe they only see in the ultraviolet spectrum or something and it never occurred to them to mask themselves from the spectrum of light that we see. Or is it all the pollution in our atmosphere that clogs up their warp intake valves, causing temporary power losses and decloaking them long enough for someone to seem them?




By SiliconDoc on 4/24/2009 5:15:15 AM , Rating: 2
" really have doubts about these government cover ups. Some drunk somewhere would have spilled the beans by now, but then, the F117 flew for years before most people knew.
"
Well you negated your own answer then, and should have a proper conclusion already - why don't you ? Why are you tending toward insanity instead ?
The government covering up "problems" should be apparent to you even today, let alone when WW2 was on or the cold war shortly thereafter, where unusual technology (and an aura of confusion around it) could mean instilling fear, doubt, and therefore complete standdown in the enemy. Another "assured destruction" scenario, without the mutal part in it. A WIN.
Even today the government covers up all it's mistakes as much as possible - isn't that apparent to you, and indeed all it's cutting edge or secret technology - as best it can.
It's real tough getting a single straight answer from any of them, ESPECIALLY nowadays. It's almost all doubletalk and hogwash - didn't used to be that way in Roswell days, was much less, as people were more down to earth, with common sense, grounded.
So you should have answered your own question with your first statement. Truth is FEAR is a great controller, and just threat of court is enough to keep the yaps shut of almost everyone who signs a non disclosure agreement, and forget their personal idea of paying the price for thrill of the secret knowedge and their own personal honor. That exists AS WELL, despite all the poo-pooers.


Girls Dig Me
By TxJeepers on 4/22/2009 9:47:58 AM , Rating: 2
Do you really think that what ever is out there has the same understandings of time/physics/etc as us? If there are such beings out there, which can travel throughout space, evidently they will have an understanding of these things way beyond our primitive human brains and an understanding of things we do not even know about.




RE: Girls Dig Me
By mindless1 on 4/23/2009 1:40:54 AM , Rating: 2
Collectively perhaps, but what if they never found a way to increase their individual lifespans beyond a certain point so their individual learning is still bound by the finite amount of time each has to learn?

Even today on our "primitive" planet nobody can be an expert on everything, even though some try to memorize as much as they can.

The remaining question would be, could our species coexist with mutual benefit or are we at best ants under a microscope and at worst, either slaves or scheduled for extermination?


Technology Limitations
By Aeonic on 4/22/2009 1:14:54 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


I see a lot of posts saying, it's impossible.. or that they'd need years and years to travel, or to surpass the speed of light. That's true.. for us. But it may be no problem for those that know the things that we don't :) The best we can do is keep our eyes and minds open.

Also, think about humans through time. Wouldn't a human from 1000 years ago be prety baffled if they were to watch just about anyone from our time for a day? Cars, cities, jets, medicine, computers, society in general, communications, all of this technology and change we take for granted... a human from a thousand or two years ago would probably consider most of it to be impossible.

That being said, I think odds are this guy is kinda crazy and I really don't take anyone's wild alien story/theories seriously no matter how sane they appear to be at the time...

Most of my beliefs on intelligent life come from probability (unscientific.. gee there are probably billions of earthlike planets...) and history, because it's in our nature to think we're special, and we're usually proven wrong. Nobody has ever proven me wrong and I think it has a good enough chance of being right.

Of course, that one time I was abducted and *ahem*.. probed.. by aliens did have an impact too..




space vs. aliens
By vladio on 4/22/2009 1:46:10 PM , Rating: 4
Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot. There are several different versions of "The Pale Blue Dot" on-line. The actual words were taken from Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" audio-book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luAteAz3WQ0&feature...




We are not alone....
By callmeroy on 4/22/2009 2:46:34 PM , Rating: 4
We are definitely not alone -- speaking as someone who enjoys studying and reading up on all things related to outer space as one of many hobbies -- its not logical in the least to so arrogantly think for even a moment that all of existence was created "just for us".

I watch science channel often and on one of those "sci-fi sunday" shows a scientist stated some numbers so ridiculously huge in reference to the number of stars just in our galaxy alone some on the order of a billion billion stars, he then said -- clearly referring to the skeptics in the world....if you wanted to extremely conservative and say out of those billion billion stars let's say only 1 million are functioning evolved solar systems like our own...that still leaves a huge number of plausible habitable worlds -- that have an alien population.

Just trying to comprehend the size of the universe is enough to cause headaches.....our galaxy alone is 100,000 light years across....as a refresher...light travels well over 4 (or is it 5?) TRILLION miles in a single year. So yeah 400,000 TRILLION miles across...yeah that's not big enough to hold other habitable solar systems. ;)

As far as the speed restrictions -- I'd always thought of two things --- I do believe earth is the only habited world in our solar system, so if the UFO sightings are real (and while a good bit of them are silly and pathetic to believe and are easily dismissed as someone being a moron -- some are very compelling and seem genuine) - my conclusion is we can't really use OUR understanding of science or the laws of nature or physics --- clearly if beings from another solar system many light years away visit our planet they are a far superior knowledge of travel, science and physics than we are even aware of. So even though its been said by science legends that the speed of light is the ultimate speed limit in the universe, maybe its really not -- but our intelligence and technology can't comprehend the math or logic of it ever being any other way.

Finally, again from reading a lot and watching documentaries I can tell you a large portion of the scientific community do believe worm holes are real and the theory of how they work is real....so perhaps other life forms have mastered the knowledge of worm holes and their locations and that's how they cross vast distances in relatiely unimaginably short amounts of time.




What the
By unclesharkey on 4/22/2009 7:36:34 PM , Rating: 2
We may not be the only intelligent life in the universe, but we may be the only advanced life or intelligent life in our galaxy. I am sure that life is abundant but intelligent life with technology? I mean how many earths are out there with the abundance of every possible resource an intelligent life form would ever need? If you think about we really did get lucky. Earth is a pretty amazing place. It is very possible that these UFO's are just machines from a very advanced society that no longer exists. That is why they never stop. Advanced machines would have no use for us. But sharing information is the way of the universe so I think if there was/is an advance life form out there they would impart some wisdom on us. Of course we may be the ones who colonize the Milky Way.

http://arxivblog.com/?p=1167




Most here are forgetting...
By mindless1 on 4/23/2009 1:44:36 AM , Rating: 2
that UFO is only unidentified flying object. It is quite possible many people see things they cannot identify but that does not make it an alien craft. Aliens are proof of aliens, not something you see in the sky but can't ID.

With more and more military investment in UAVs, and laser projection advancements, we're likely to *see* even more UFOs in the future.




Space Defense Force
By Woodsy on 4/26/2009 11:35:34 PM , Rating: 2
So with the immense probability of life determined by the Drake equation, there's something out there. People into science with an idea about how big our universe really is knows there has to be a multitude of life in even our Milky Way. So there is probably something way more advanced than us out there. Something with insane technology that appears like magic to us. Five bucks says there's something like ZERG, or "Aliens" (like the movies with Ripley), or possibly like a "Predator", bent on destroying every opposing force against them to harvest us for food, enslave us, or strip our planet of all natural resources and then move on to the next spot. The point I'm getting at is we need some bloody space weapons, I'm talking Gundam Wing suits, battle cruisers that have thousands of fighter drones, and maybe some insane weapon that makes a nuke look like a match being lit. Every government works together to make the Space Defense Force and the weapons cant be used against humans. Forget the economy, everybody chip in, we need Gundam suits, and a transforming cruiser that shoots a plasma beam a mile wide and smokes the bugs before they make it to pluto. Also it could stop an incoming meteor, so it could eventually save all humanity! AHAHAHAA!




"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein









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