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  (Source: strumors.automobilemag.com)
The Toyota Prius plug-in has a 540-mile range while the Chevrolet Volt has a 380-mile range

After receivng an EPA rating of 100 miles-per-gallon equivalent (MPGe) city/highway combined, Ford's C-MAX Energi has now been named the king of range with 620 miles per tank/charge.

According to Ford, the C-MAX Energi crushes the competition with an EPA rated 108 MPGe city and an EPA rated 620-mile overall driving range. The Energi is also capable of traveling 21 miles in all-electric mode and has 195 horsepower with a fully charged battery.

The Toyota Prius plug-in, on the other hand, has a 540-mile range while the Chevrolet Volt has a 380-mile range.


Not only will the C-MAX Energi be America's most fuel efficient vehicle with the longest range, but it will also be the most affordable. It has a starting price of $29,995, but is eligible for the federal tax credit. The EPA label also noted that customers could save almost $7,000 in gas over the course of five years with the C-MAX Energi.

“C-MAX Energi is America’s most efficient utility vehicle, a great symbol of how Ford gives customers the power to choose leading fuel-efficiency across our lineup with gas prices spiraling upwards of $5 a gallon in some parts of the country,” said John Davis, C-MAX chief engineer. “The C-MAX Energi’s leading range also means customers can spend more time on the road and more money on their priorities instead of at the gas pump.”

Ford also mentioned that the C-MAX Energi's range was designed to address congestion problems. A longer electric range means no wasted fuel while sitting in traffic.

The C-MAX Energi, due out this Fall, will also offer many of Ford's features like SYNC with MyFord Touch, MyFord Mobile, ECO Cruise and SmartGauge with EcoGuide.


Source: Ford



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Credit not rebate
By bebimbap on 10/19/2012 8:04:00 PM , Rating: 3
whats the difference between a $7000 tax credit and $7000 tax rebate???

you can only be credited on taxes you are required to pay, if you are required to pay 0 taxes you get 0 credit. If it were a rebate if you are required to pay 0 taxes you get $7000 back.




RE: Credit not rebate
By bobsmith1492 on 10/19/2012 10:48:55 PM , Rating: 5
I wish people would stop arguing this point every EV car article! It doesn't matter!!

Any reasonable person who is paying less than $7k in taxes would never EVER buy a brand new $30,000 car so the point is moot.


RE: Credit not rebate
By Mint on 10/19/2012 11:26:51 PM , Rating: 2
In this case, it's only a $3750 tax credit, so that emphasizes your point even further.

There's only ~15M cars sold per year in the US among 115M households. The vast majority of households paying less tax than that will be buying used cars.


RE: Credit not rebate
By Solandri on 10/20/2012 2:52:29 AM , Rating: 3
IRS tax brackets are:
10% - $0 to $8700 ($870 in taxes)
15% - $8701 to $35.350 (up to $3997.50 in taxes)
25% - $35,351 - $85,650 (up to $12,575 in taxes)

In addition there's a standard deduction of $5950 (the first $5950 you make is untaxed).

So for you to be paying $7k in federal taxes, you'd have to be making $49,830 ($0 on the first $5950, $870 from the 10% bracket, $3997.50 from the 15%, and $2132.50 from the 25%). A new $30,000 car is entirely reasonable with that income.

To owe $3750 in federal taxes, you'd have to be making at least $32,183.33. Normally I wouldn't consider this to be a healthy income level to buy a $26,245 new car. But after seeing how many poor people are willing to fork over the money for a new iPad, I don't try to predict what people will or won't buy anymore.

Also note that these are minimum incomes. If you itemize your deductions (e.g. you pay mortgage on your house), it's possible to have a much higher income and still owe less than $7000 or $3750 in federal taxes.

quote:
There's only ~15M cars sold per year in the US among 115M households. The vast majority of households paying less tax than that will be buying used cars.

That stat would only be relevant if people only kept a new car for a year. If the average duration of ownership for a new car is 5 years, then 15M/year in new car sales represents 75M households, or the majority. (Actually even that is suspect too since there are about 130M households but 250M passenger cars.)


RE: Credit not rebate
By FITCamaro on 10/20/2012 9:20:31 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
But after seeing how many poor people are willing to fork over the money for a new iPad, I don't try to predict what people will or won't buy anymore.


Well when they get the Earned Income Credit, don't have to pay for their food, housing, cell phone, or health care, of course they have money to buy $500 tablets.


RE: Credit not rebate
By mcnabney on 10/22/2012 10:43:38 AM , Rating: 2
The working poor don't buy tablets - but they do buy cell phones. The gov't subsidized phones are all basic phones. They can get a small discount on service on a smartphone though.

Are you really sure that you are jealous of the working poor? Their lives really do tend to suck.


RE: Credit not rebate
By RufusM on 10/22/2012 4:15:22 PM , Rating: 2
You should spend a few months working at a county level Human Services department. There are some true hard luck cases that deserve help, but most of the people they service (> 50%) are there because they've f'd their own life up due to extremely bad life choices (teen pregnancy, drugs and alchohol, etc.) You'd be surprised at how many 18-20 somethings there somehow find the extra dollars/credit card debt for a large flat panel TV, cable TV, a smartphone, iPad, game system, fancy car stereo, etc.

BTW it's not jealousy, it's outrage that the Human Services systems are so corrupted/broken.


RE: Credit not rebate
By StanO360 on 10/20/2012 6:00:57 PM , Rating: 2
Families are much higher brackets. There are lots of deductions. But this definitely applies for singles, or married no kids.


RE: Credit not rebate
By Mint on 10/20/2012 6:24:11 PM , Rating: 3
Dude, a new iPad/smartphone/computer every couple years is nothing compared to the expense of a new car!

quote:
That stat would only be relevant if people only kept a new car for a year. If the average duration of ownership for a new car is 5 years, then 15M/year in new car sales represents 75M households, or the majority.
Many household have more than one car. If the 5M most well off households have three cars and replace each one every three years, and the next 10M biggest spenders have two cars with each replaced every 5 years, that leaves 6M new cars per year for 100M households.

I seriously doubt the bottom two quintiles will comprise more than a trickle of new $25k+ car sales.


RE: Credit not rebate
By Dr of crap on 10/22/2012 8:21:49 AM , Rating: 2
So there you've hit on it.

THE ONES that REALLY would benefit from this tax credit, the ones that don't make much, even be in the running since they won't be able to buy the car!

THAT'S why the point keeps coming up!


RE: Credit not rebate
By Mint on 10/22/2012 4:19:20 PM , Rating: 2
No, the ones who would benefit from the credit are those who are willing to spend $30k on a new car. Virtually all of those households earn enough to pay $4k in federal income tax.


RE: Credit not rebate
By CharonPDX on 11/13/2012 3:08:01 PM , Rating: 2
You need a better accountant.

I bought a Prius, got the (then large) tax credit, and paid $0 in Federal Income Taxes that year. (aka: I got 100% of my paid taxes back.)

In fact, because of various other credits, I'm pretty sure I got money back. (I'd have to go back through my returns to be sure.)

I'm all for closing tax loopholes and equalizing taxes. Anyone who makes over $100K a year who claims they actually pay the stated tax rate is either lying, choosing to do so, or horribly bad with money. Just like no corporation pays the stated corporate tax rate. (My corporation only ever paid at most $1110 in income taxes, on half a million dollars revenue. $1000 federal, $100 state, $10 local. One year only. Every other year was less.)


RE: Credit not rebate
By V-Money on 10/19/2012 11:08:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
whats the difference between a $7000 tax credit and $7000 tax rebate??? you can only be credited on taxes you are required to pay, if you are required to pay 0 taxes you get 0 credit. If it were a rebate if you are required to pay 0 taxes you get $7000 back.


Ummmm....no. I agree that in this case it is true, but you fail to mention that there are 2 different types of tax credits. There are refundable tax credits and non-refundable tax credits. In other words...
quote:
you can only be credited on taxes you are required to pay
...is only true in the case of non-refundable tax credits. While I agree that in this case it involves a non-refundable tax credit, your statement as a whole is wrong.


RE: Credit not rebate
By Shig on 10/20/2012 12:22:23 AM , Rating: 2
You guys know that the dealership usually takes on the tax liability right? If you want to sell cars, keep the customer away from our joke of a tax system.


RE: Credit not rebate
By christojojo on 10/20/2012 8:24:49 AM , Rating: 3
FYI NEW YORK STATE charges you taxes on the money you are rebated on a car. I had to pay 8.25% sales tax on money I never paid on my last car I purchased. Talk about being robbed.


RE: Credit not rebate
By espaghetti on 10/20/2012 6:07:44 PM , Rating: 2
You sir, live in one of the most mismanaged states.
Why?


RE: Credit not rebate
By christojojo on 11/14/2012 6:00:39 PM , Rating: 2
Too long to respond but because the ex said if I moved she was going to divorce me and take the kids with her. She left me and the kids. Thus the lag in responses.


BUT WAIT -
By Dr of crap on 10/22/2012 8:33:33 AM , Rating: 2
No one noticed their streching the cash saving figures!

Using $4 gas and 20,000 miles driven per year -

Say my present car gets 30 mpg, that's $2667 for gas each year.

Now IF the C-Max gets 45 mpg it will use $1778 in gas per year,
and if it gets 50 mpg it will use $1600 in gas per year.

So at 45 mpg you'd save $4445 over 5 years and at 50 mpg you'd save $5335 over 5 years.

Yet from the article -
"The EPA label also noted that customers could save almost $7,000 in gas over the course of five years with the C-MAX Energi."

Seems the EPA can't do the math!
OR they think the average driver goes over 20,000 miles per year - yet the average commute is less than 20 miles.




RE: BUT WAIT -
By BSMonitor on 10/22/2012 9:41:35 AM , Rating: 2
Your assumption is pretty high, 30MPG ?? You are talking Fusion, Malibu, or smaller cars... By far not the majority.


RE: BUT WAIT -
By Dr of crap on 10/22/2012 10:02:14 AM , Rating: 2
REALLY 30 mpg is TOO high????

I'm assuming that IF you going after the C-Max you should at least have a pretty high mpg to start with. After all who are the C-Max potentail buyers? Not pickup or SUV drivers.

Now I'm sure someone will post that some of the driving is to be done with battery power only. OK, but can it really be that much in savings? And don't forget the low temps and the high temps that also limit the available battery power, and the years toll on the battery capacity.

REAL world numbers folks not math expected numbers!


RE: BUT WAIT -
By Mint on 10/23/2012 3:52:10 PM , Rating: 2
Find another compact-MPV/wagon that gets 30 MPG combined . Aside from the Prius-V (42 MPG), I can't think of any.

Look at my post below for real numbers.


RE: BUT WAIT -
By Nutzo on 10/22/2012 11:43:52 AM , Rating: 2
It depends on what type of driving you do.
If you mainly drive highway miles, then a hybrid will not save you much in gas. If you mainly drive in the city or stop & go rush hour traffic, then you should have a quick payback period.

My 10 year old Camry still gets 35 on the highway, buy only 19 with my normal 99% city driving. However I STILL can't justify a hybrid since my commute is so short. It would take me 6 to 8 years just to break even.


RE: BUT WAIT -
By Mint on 10/22/2012 3:54:10 PM , Rating: 2
Note the EPA quote talks about the CMax Energi . That's the plugin, which can do 6,000+ miles/yr at 100 MPGe (or about $240/yr). 30MPG would cost you $800-1000/yr for just those electric miles, i.e. $2800-3800 over 5 years.

Add another 10k miles/yr at 45MPG, and you save an additional $2200-2700 per year. On top of that, 30MPG average is very high for a compact MPV, which is basically a small minivan. The Mazda5 gets 24MPG, the Dodge Journey and Kia Rondo get 22MPG, etc.

That bumps the electric driving savings to $4200+ and the gas driving savings to $4500+ over 80,000 total miles compared to competitors, assuming $4/gal (which seems like a low average to us in CA).

$7000 over 5 years is a pretty reasonable estimate.


We'll see if it can actually do it
By jthistle on 10/19/2012 10:20:23 PM , Rating: 2
According the results on Fuelly the C-Max hybrid is averaging 38MPG not the 47MPG it is rated at. This probably means the Energi will fall short of a 620 mile range.




RE: We'll see if it can actually do it
By Jedi2155 on 10/20/2012 2:41:40 AM , Rating: 2
Fuelly doesn't have numbers for a lot of cars....I don't trust their numbers until the number of drivers increase to a greater sample range


RE: We'll see if it can actually do it
By Jedi2155 on 10/20/2012 2:44:28 AM , Rating: 2
For reference there has only been 2 drivers....which is not a good sample.


By jthistle on 10/20/2012 9:09:51 PM , Rating: 2
I have read people on CleanMPG are getting similar MPG.


RE: We'll see if it can actually do it
By Nutzo on 10/22/2012 11:37:24 AM , Rating: 2
Ford has already said milage will be lower during the first 1000 mile breakin period, so 38MPG is reasonable for the first couple tanks.


Range is just a marketing point
By Mint on 10/19/2012 11:16:24 PM , Rating: 3
as it only takes 5 minutes to add hundreds of miles that takes 5+ hours to drive. Any manufacturer can give any gas/PHEV car more range if they wanted to, but it's just a really low priority for car buyers.

Tiffany, you should probably note that the $29,995 price is after the tax credit (which is only $3750 for this car, as it doesn't have as much battery capacity/range as a Volt), not before. It's somewhat bizarre seeing some carmakers not take advantage of the full credit, as it's likely that the marginal cost of a longer range is less than the tax credit, but it has some minor advantages in space, weight, and marketing.

What's interesting is that the Energi model (the plugin) is, after tax credit, only $2k more than the similarly equipped C-Max hybrid SEL (which is in turn $3k more than the base hybrid). That'll pay for itself after 3 years, and even less if you can charge at work. I also expect that at some point, the Energi will cost less than the SEL to lease, as it will have higher residual value: Not only will the next buyer pay less for gas, but the ICE will have less miles on it since half the driving (or more) is done on electricity.




RE: Range is just a marketing point
By Ringold on 10/20/2012 9:30:39 PM , Rating: 1
Respectfully disagree on range. The more the merrier IMO, as I occasionally do undertake an extended road trip, and some times getting off on an exit and hunting down a gas station can take a good bit more then 5 minutes.

Then there's some places (West Texas..) where a Volt would require semi-careful route planning, what with the occasional "Last gas station for 1xx miles" signs. C-MAX Energi, no worries. I can appreciate that.

That said, it wouldnt sway me too much for an EV. The Volt's top range would indeed be a cross-country pain, but in the city no, as that'd mostly all be EV. But all else being equal, the more the merrier.

Agree with all your other comments on the car, though. I do think it at least looks better than the Prius.


RE: Range is just a marketing point
By Nutzo on 10/22/2012 11:49:57 AM , Rating: 2
The problem with the Volt, is that once you switch to gas, the milage is not very good. It's milage on gas is more like a ICE car as opposed to a hybrid.

The C-Max Hybrid is rated at 47MPG, and the C-Max Energi gets similar milage when it swiches to gas.


RE: Range is just a marketing point
By Mint on 10/22/2012 4:15:24 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think that's a big problem. Most people will do 80%+ of their driving on electricity. Another 20% saving on the remaining mileage really doesn't add up to a whole lot.

If you drive at least 35 miles 300 days per year, you get 10,500 miles on electricity for about $452. Do another 2,000 miles on gas (~$216 @ $4/gal) for vacation and other excess miles during the year, and you're up to the national average mileage of 12,500.

A 30 MPG combined car would have annual fuel costs of $1666, the current Volt is $668, and a better Volt (say, 43MPG on gas) would be $638.

I don't think 7.5 gal/yr ($2.50 per month) is a dealbreaker...


RE: Range is just a marketing point
By Mint on 10/22/2012 4:24:30 PM , Rating: 2
I believe you, but I still don't think too many people care about it. The variance in interior volume between competing cars is a lot more than a few gallons, yet none of the makers with extra space bother reallocating it towards a larger tank.

It really is a low priority, either by consumers themselves or by the way manufacturers mistakenly perceive consumer desires (which IMO is unlikely).


Charge !!!
By SuckRaven on 10/22/2012 2:06:45 AM , Rating: 2
It will be interesting to see businesses, and probably to a lesser degree residences begin to police their outdoors electrical outlets to curb "pirate" charge-bys.

The other day, I saw someone with a Volt behind a Taco Bell hooked up to one of the outside outlets, and looking pensive, like someone was going to bust their chops for stealing electricity.

Interestingly enough, in many EU countries, a ban on things like charging your cell phones at work as implemented years ago.

I would imagine as we begin to catch up to the "every bit of energy counts" mentality, this kind of policing will become more and more commonplace.




RE: Charge !!!
By Dr of crap on 10/22/2012 12:07:24 PM , Rating: 2
YEA! RIGHT!

<rolls eyes>


RE: Charge !!!
By titanmiller on 10/22/2012 6:13:52 PM , Rating: 2
A ban on charging cell phones???? What is the reason behind that nonsense?

On the subject of charging at stores and stuff, I think that it could be a competitive advantage for stores to put metered outlets at parking spots. Maybe their deal of the day is 5 cents per kilowatt hour while a competing store charges 8 cents. It would help attract customers....maybe even a free charge to get people in their store.

I seriously think that this business model will be key in the future. It will give stores a reason to install chargers and it will help keep range anxiety at bay. Additionally, it will help prevent deep cycling of batteries since they can stay mostly topped off.


Looks like ass
By Schadenfroh on 10/19/2012 9:31:56 PM , Rating: 1
I'm tired of mainstream car companies building hybrid / electric cars that look fugly. Just build them into existing frames that look decent (e.g. drop Insight and Prius, focus on hybrid Civic and Camry).

Or, make the electric cars look like Tesla offerings without the price (or possible bankruptcy), yeah one can dream...




RE: Looks like ass
By Mint on 10/19/2012 10:44:20 PM , Rating: 2
The funny thing about images of this car is that if you use your thumb to block the top grille and imagine that the hood went all the way down to the fine-meshed one, it looks good.

I think this design element is a throwback to oldschool Fords, where they had that single bar across the grille supporting their badge. Unfortunately, it's throwing off the modern lines of the rest of the car, which looks decent.

It's like a cute and intelligent girl with a decent body, and even the face isn't bad, but you wish she did something about that thick unibrow...


RE: Looks like ass
By Nutzo on 10/22/2012 11:57:03 AM , Rating: 2
I'm more concerned about them building cars without spare tires like the C-Max. Both the Hybrid and the Energi ship with a can of flat fix and a pump, with not even a space to add your own spare tire.

I still prefer a full size spare, but I'd settle for a temp spare. Based on how many flats (including ones that couldn't be repaired by a can for flat fix) I've had over the years, I will never buy a car without a spare tire.



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