Print 42 comment(s) - last by Captain Awesom.. on Dec 4 at 1:07 PM

No word on when the aggressive roll out will begin

Many automakers are integrating start-stop technology into their non-hybrid vehicles in an attempt to improve fuel efficiency as much as possible. This technology allows the car to automatically turn the engine off when the vehicle is stopped at a light or parked for an extended period. When the driver steps on the gas, the engine automatically starts back up.
Since start-stop helps to improve overall fuel efficiency of a vehicle, Ford is looking to integrate the technology throughout its product portfolio.
"We're going to be aggressive rolling it out," said Raj Nair, Ford's global product development chief.

Ford's next generation Mustang is likely to have start-stop available at least as an option [Image Source: Car and Driver]
While Nair didn’t offer specifics on what vehicles would be the next to offer the technology, Ford's start-stop tech is expected to be offered on many of its vehicles, including the top selling F-150 truck. For now, the only non-hybrid vehicle in the Ford lineup with available start-stop is the 2013 Ford Fusion ($295 option).
Ford believes that the start-stop feature can save drivers $1,100 in fuel costs over five years.  By Ford's estimates, it would take over a year for drivers to save enough in fuel to offset the option's cost.
However, Nair says that the current purchase rate for the option is low because people don't yet understand the value/fuel savings it provides.

Source: AutoNews

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Have It
By Spuke on 11/25/2013 10:23:49 AM , Rating: 2
Have this in the wife's BMW. Don't like it.

RE: Have It
By wushuktl on 11/25/2013 10:44:15 AM , Rating: 2
Why do you not like it? Is there a noticable lag time from the time you step on the gas to when the car actually starts moving? How long does the car have to be stopped before the engine turns off?

RE: Have It
By brybir on 11/25/2013 11:07:14 AM , Rating: 2
My Wife's BMW 3 series also has this and I don't like it.

Its rather jarring, too aggressive (turns off even when just stopping for a second at stop signs) and it messes with the climate control. For example, when its 90+ degrees out and your sitting at a red light, the fan stays on but the AC compressor turns off, and it lets it get quite hot in the cabin before automatically turning the car on. Last, when you even slightly begin to take your foot off the break pedal (like shifting in your seat) it will return the car on.

Its really just weird and you are very aware of it all the time when it is on. Really detracts from an otherwise great driving experience.

You can read online also, the Start/Stop is universally panned in reviews from Car and Driver etc..

RE: Have It
By BZDTemp on 11/25/2013 11:20:18 AM , Rating: 2
Sounds bad but it also sounds like BMW has done a bad job because from what I understand it works well in many cars.

Mazda has apparently found a way to restart their engines without using a starter motor - something with them controlling what position the pistons stops in and how it is fire up to restart. I haven't tried it but supposedly it works really well.

RE: Have It
By Spuke on 11/25/2013 11:52:26 AM , Rating: 2
Too jarring is my main complaint also. Yes, I will agree that BMW's implementation is to blame here (seems to be the general consensus with reviewers too).

RE: Have It
By GTVic on 12/2/2013 2:39:57 PM , Rating: 2
Did the salesmen turn this feature off when you test drove the BMW? Surely the annoyance factor would have been noticeable right away?

RE: Have It
By Dorkyman on 11/25/2013 1:05:27 PM , Rating: 2
From the Wiki. Apparently, Mazda doesn't think it does much good as measured by the EPA cycle. And Canada wants to put everyone in jail:

"...Ford recently announced that its stop-start system, available on some 2012 cars and SUVs, has the real-world potential to boost fuel economy by “as much as 10 percent.” Mazda, more concerned with EPA results, says a 3 with i-stop gains only one-tenth of one percent on the EPA city cycle. Therefore, U.S. Mazdas will do without stop-start until it can be part of a worthwhile package of efficiency improvements. (The Japanese city-cycle test has 40 seconds of idling, so the cost of i-stop is justified there.)

Canada is one market in which stop-start should succeed. Toronto has a law that makes idling in boats, cars, and even buses for more than one minute per hour punishable by a fine of up to $5000. It would take a Mountie on every corner and maybe the ghost of Lord Stanley himself to enforce it, but we admire the attempt to promote this simple way of saving fuel."

RE: Have It
By Mint on 11/25/2013 5:14:43 PM , Rating: 2
The EPA city cycle doesn't simulate any red lights. That's really bad, as it makes the incentive for start-stop extremely poor.

RE: Have It
By Jeffk464 on 11/25/2013 3:45:38 PM , Rating: 2
From what I read BMW gives you the option to turn the start stop feature off. I personally would like to see some extensive studies on what this does to engine life. It might not have much of an effect, but I would like to know before I bought one.

RE: Have It
By Spuke on 11/26/2013 3:14:40 PM , Rating: 2
You have to turn it off manually and it will re-enable once you restart the car. And the button is not ergonomically located.

RE: Have It
By fic2 on 11/25/2013 1:47:38 PM , Rating: 2
I drove a Ford C-Max for 3 weeks while in Europe that had Start/Stop. Kind of surprised me at first since the rental agency hadn't mentioned it, but then I thought - cool, I wish American versions could be this advanced.
Their implementation was quite good. This was on a manual(of course), 6-speed. The start would occur when you engaged the clutch. When I had this it was the middle of August and freaking hot. There was never an issue with the A/C. Sometimes while stopped at the light the engine would turn on so the A/C would run but we didn't feel hot before it happened. It seemed like a very good implementation.

Now, that said, I don't think it will go over well in the states. Most of the cars/drivers I see while sitting at lights are "creepers" - they just can't sit still. They start creeping into the intersection (as much as half way into it sometimes) or creeping up on the car behind them. I tend to notice that I am the only one sitting still. So, for all these creepers the engine is going to be kicking in every time they inch their cars up.

RE: Have It
By fic2 on 11/25/2013 3:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, should have mentioned - this was a non-hybrid C-Max (again something not sold in the states).

RE: Have It
By alpha754293 on 11/25/2013 2:05:05 PM , Rating: 1
DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.

Read the article from Motortrend.


"One 1.6 feature worth looking forward to is the start-stop system. It's the first system of its kind on a Ford vehicle with an automatic transmission, officials say, and it's good. Smooth, near-instant, and quiet startups were the norm during my drive. BMW, take note: This is how you do start-stop."

motortrend [dot] com/roadtests/sedans/1209_2013_ford_fusion_first_te st/viewall.html

RE: Have It
By GTVic on 12/2/2013 2:50:45 PM , Rating: 2
Also Ford and Mazda have a pretty close relationship so I think it is likely they are licensing Mazda's i-Stop system.

RE: Have It
By Jeffk464 on 11/25/2013 4:03:17 PM , Rating: 3
By the way if thats the new mustang I love it.

By jeepga on 11/25/13, Rating: 0
RE: Benefits?
By wushuktl on 11/25/2013 10:43:15 AM , Rating: 3
Is there proof that start/stop tech has caused engine damage in the cars that come with it? Or are you just basing this on older cars that weren't designed with the intention of having the engine stop and start frequently?

RE: Benefits?
By Spuke on 11/25/2013 11:53:52 AM , Rating: 2
Nor do they understand how Ford came up with those numbers. Nor do they understand the maintenance problems that frequent engine restarts can cause over time.
We don't know this yet. Also, I expect this will get better with each new implementation much like electric power steering (which I really like BTW).

RE: Benefits?
By GTVic on 12/2/2013 2:46:12 PM , Rating: 2
On my Mazda 3 the electric power steering is noticeable when driving in a quiet area (underground parking) but not annoying and kind of a cool sound.

What is annoying is the electric motor compressor which is very noisy with the windows open and starts and stops with a loud clunk. It also is on in the winter unless you turn off the front window defrost which is not feasible. The worst part is the cycle, on for 10 seconds and then off for 15 seconds. So the clunking is really bothersome.

RE: Benefits?
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/25/2013 3:46:53 PM , Rating: 2
Toyota has been using start/stop technology on the prius since 1997 (about 16 years). Haven't heard of any reliability issues with them.

RE: Benefits?
By SAN-Man on 11/25/2013 6:59:01 PM , Rating: 2

This is not the same implementation and is not the same driving experience, but you knew that.

Stop-Start makes sense on hybrids because the electric motor is getting the car moving, so there is no rough and annoying delay.

RE: Benefits?
By Philippine Mango on 11/27/2013 4:22:05 PM , Rating: 2
Start-stop makes no sense on hybrids? By definition, all full hybrids have Start-stop technology. lol

RE: Benefits?
By Spuke on 11/26/2013 3:30:44 PM , Rating: 2
Haven't heard of any reliability issues with them.
Mine works just fine. It's not a reliability issue. READ my post!

RE: Benefits?
By Jeffk464 on 11/25/2013 3:54:24 PM , Rating: 2
I know on the prius they have a special oil pump so you aren't running dry at start up, but I would also like to see this studied. A quick on off cycle that is still well lubricated and at operating temp is not the same as a on off cycle from cold.

RE: Benefits?
By Jeffk464 on 11/25/2013 3:55:50 PM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty sure the prius isn't known for breaking down and having a short engine life.

OK I'll ask the question -
By Dr of crap on 11/25/13, Rating: 0
RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By Fallen Kell on 11/25/2013 2:25:28 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Especially in my case. My typical commute involves 1 stop sign, and 4 traffic lights for my entire 50 miles of driving a day.

RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By marvdmartian on 11/25/2013 3:22:58 PM , Rating: 2
I see it being just a matter of time before someone offers a 3rd party hack of the system, that will allow drivers to disable it. Since everything is controlled through the car's computer these days, it shouldn't be too difficult.

My question, concerning the technology, is that they've been telling us for years that, unlike carburated cars that could save gas by shutting off the engine when sitting, it wasn't necessary for fuel injected vehicles, and wouldn't save any gas. Now they're saying it will? I mean, I understand that if the engine isn't running, it's not consuming gas, but what's the REAL savings, versus the extra wear and tear of the on/off cycle?

Also, I don't see this saving much during the hot summers in the southwestern states. Sorry, but the A/C is working full time, when it's 110 degrees outside, to keep my car cool. Shutting off the compressor is NOT an option!

RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By fic2 on 11/25/2013 5:07:23 PM , Rating: 2
It is very easy to disable - just don't buy that OPTION.

RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By futrtrubl on 11/26/2013 8:13:32 AM , Rating: 2
Or just push the button to dissable it. Or if that isn't permanent get your local service technician (or do it yourself) to turn it off in the cars computer.

RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By Spuke on 11/26/2013 3:36:32 PM , Rating: 2
Service techs can't turn this off. It takes a software hack to do it. BTW, in very hot and very cold temps, the system does not activate, at least not in my wife's car.

RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/25/2013 3:40:35 PM , Rating: 3
Start/Stop has been around for a while now -- mostly on hybrids.

So saving $225-$250 is not worth it? Perhaps not when looked at as personal savings, but what about half a million people using this technology and saving that much?

$125M is nothing to sneeze at. $125M worth of gas is an awful lot of gas that was not used. $125M worth of gas would keep me, my kid and my grand kids and their grandkids driving for the rest of their lives and still have a lot left over for aunts, uncles, cousins...

RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By MadMan007 on 11/27/2013 12:27:34 AM , Rating: 2
So you say it may not be worth it on a personal level, then aggregate the savings over a large population, then take that aggregate number and reapply it to a personal level. Logic fail.

RE: OK I'll ask the question -
By Jeffk464 on 11/25/2013 3:48:20 PM , Rating: 2
5 gallons a month, times how many millions of cars, ads up to a lot of barrels of oil that we don't have to import.

AC Compressor
By btc909 on 11/25/2013 1:48:08 PM , Rating: 2
If you have a non-electric belt driven AC compressor and your vehicle is shut off you loose the cooling of your AC. Yes the electric fan motor will still run and it'll still blow cold for a bit but you will notice it when it's toasty outside. Sync / My Ford Touch aka Stink pissed people off and this will as well.

RE: AC Compressor
By Jeffk464 on 11/25/2013 3:57:41 PM , Rating: 2
It would be nice if it was smart enough to just work at traffic lights.

RE: AC Compressor
By coburn_c on 11/25/2013 7:24:36 PM , Rating: 2
AC? What about all those icy crashed and traffic backups on the freeway in the winter. Now I get to freeze to death sitting in traffic waiting for the tow truck.. but at least I'll have a full tank of gas!

What happens when the car is older?
By JediJeb on 11/26/2013 11:53:18 AM , Rating: 2
Many vehicles become more difficult to start once they get some age on them (100k-300k miles). Will this thing sit as a stoplight just grinding the starter for several seconds until the engine restarts, or will people have to spent tons more money keeping the engine as pristine as possible for it to work?

Well works great in the Volt
By foxalopex on 11/26/2013 4:07:59 PM , Rating: 2
Interestingly enough the Volt already has this technology. When it's running on gas, the engine will stop if you're not moving, if you've accumulated excess power rolling down a hill or if you need heat. In the summer, the AC is electrically powered so you still get AC sitting still with the engine off. There's actually no starter either. The motor is jump started by one of the electrical drive motors on board.

By Philippine Mango on 11/27/2013 4:18:20 PM , Rating: 2
This technology in practice doesn't work because most people are unaware of their driving habits and have the climate control always running, disabling the start-stop function. If one knows how to take advantage of this technology, it's pretty noticeable gains but otherwise it's minimal to nonexistent.

waste of effort
By jackpro on 11/29/2013 12:58:08 AM , Rating: 2
better to hybrid as the start stop is controlled by a bigger electric engine & aircon is electric sans toyota

is it worth it?
By Captain Awesome on 12/4/2013 1:07:45 PM , Rating: 2
It might save $1,100 in fuel costs over five years, but how much extra will it cost you in batteries and replacement starter motors?

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