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The Focus Estate, another Ford delicacy that we don't get in the United States
Ford offers diesel-powered cars in Europe already making a transition for the US very easy if needed

Several automakers have been announcing new vehicles powered by diesel engines for the U.S. market. Chevrolet recently announced the Cruze Clean Turbo Diesel and Mazda will be bringing a diesel-powered version of its Mazda6 to the U.S. And we can’t forget that Volkswagen has been selling diesel vehicles in the U.S. for years with great success. Despite these major automakers announcing diesel-powered cars, Ford is still playing it safe.

Ford has long offered diesel engines in its heavy-duty F-Series pickups and will offer a diesel engine in its upcoming Transit commercial van (which will replace the E-Series), but is playing it safe when it comes to passenger cars.

"If we see diesels start to take off here in the U.S., we can react very quickly," said Ford's Mark Fields. While diesel-powered vehicles make up only 3% of retail passenger vehicle sales in the U.S., that figure was actually up by 25% in last year compared to 2011 according to Edmunds.

Ford already offers diesel-powered cars in Europe (where half of all vehicles sold come with a diesel engine) and other world markets as part of its global strategy. If Ford sees the demand in the United States increase significantly for diesel-powered cars, it would be easy to start placing those engines into vehicles destined for the United States. However, Americans would be facing a $3,000 to $4,000 premium compared to an equivalent gasoline-powered vehicle.

Ford has been slow to introduce diesel engines in its U.S. vehicles because it has put quite a bit of energy into promoting its EcoBoost engines instead. The turbocharged engines can be found in varying displacements in everything from the tiny Fiesta to the hulking F-150. However, the fuel efficiency ratings of those comparatively small, turbocharged engines have recently come under fire. Consumer Reports maintains that Ford's turbocharged engines offer little to no improvement over conventional engines in fuel efficiency or performance.

Source: Detroit News



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Enough pumps?
By BillyBatson on 2/12/2013 10:23:43 AM , Rating: 2
$3k+ That's a pretty bi premium... The article doesn't go into what the benefits of a diesel would even be over traditional gasoline engines or fords own ecoboost for that matter.. not sure why people wouldn't believe the ecoboost claims it might not be perfect but you do get better gas mileage while maintaining a healthy hp. If diesel were to take off though what would the wait for diesel be considering there is a gas station on every corner here but most with only 1-2 diesel pumps way off to the side.

Btw BMW has offered diesel here in the states for several years now as well




RE: Enough pumps?
By ShieTar on 2/12/2013 11:23:48 AM , Rating: 3
The reason why diesel took of in europe (once diesel motors started to drive and smell the same way as gasoline engines) was the lower relative cost of diesel. So the higher price of the car was compensated by fuel costs after a year or two.

The process of cracking down crude oil always generates both gasoline and diesel as well as a load of other gas/oil products. 10 years ago there was a high imbalance in demands, so diesel was sold at half the price of gasoline, so driving a diesel was quiet inexpensive.

But now, since the number of diesel engines in personal cars has picked up, the price of diesel fuel has increased, so there remains very little economic reason to pick a diesel.


RE: Enough pumps?
By Dr of crap on 2/12/2013 1:07:13 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry but the high diesel price IS NOT related to cars running on diesel.

It the trucks and the tax money that can be made by the high taxes and diesel that the trucks burn.


RE: Enough pumps?
By Samus on 2/12/2013 3:03:38 PM , Rating: 4
The two things that will prevent Diesel passenger vehicles from catching on in the United States: Diesel fuel tax and maintenance.

Diesel fuel costs more than premium unleaded here in Chicago, and because of ridiculous EPA mandates, a Urea tank is now mandatory which is the stupidest idea ever regulated in the auto industry. Most vehicles require it be emptied every 20k, while it obviously reduces performance, fuel economy, exhaust system life and possibly engine life.


RE: Enough pumps?
By Mint on 2/13/2013 3:23:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Urea tank is now mandatory which is the stupidest idea ever regulated in the auto industry
You think we should raise the allowable NOx emissions then?

Diesel can't match gasoline's emissions without the urea tank. Even the posterchild of clean diesel - the Passat TDI - gets very average emissions ratings compared to decent gas engines, and that's with the tank.


RE: Enough pumps?
By JediJeb on 2/12/2013 9:39:18 PM , Rating: 2
Actually a large part of the high price of diesel is the new requirement of low sulfur content which requires more refining or different sources of crude to achieve. Thank the EPA for higher diesel prices.


RE: Enough pumps?
By Calin on 2/13/2013 6:02:26 AM , Rating: 2
10 years ago the price for diesel was about three quarters of the price of gasoline. This, coupled with the 20% or so of higher mpg (partially from the lower power of the typical diesel engine of the times) made diesel powered cars a very good choice for medium to high mileage vehicles.
On the other side, right now price for diesel fuel is actually higher than non-premium gasoline. As such, diesel is only worth it for very high mileage passenger vehicles (though many people consider themselves in that category, irregardless of their actual driving)


RE: Enough pumps?
By Mint on 2/13/2013 3:54:54 PM , Rating: 2
If that was the only reason, then California would have more diesel. It has low sulfur and other requirements for gasoline, too, which is one of the main reasons it has higher gas costs than the rest of the nation.


RE: Enough pumps?
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 2/13/2013 11:01:38 AM , Rating: 2
In Europe, diesel is taxed lower than gasoline, thus its popularity.

In the US, not so much.


RE: Enough pumps?
By Mint on 2/13/2013 3:18:39 PM , Rating: 2
Of course it's related.

We get a certain amount of diesel and gasoline out of each barrel of oil. We can change the ratio with different refining methods, but the world mostly uses hydrocracking to maximize diesel production already (and it costs to switch the remaining catalytic cracking plants over).

If consumer preference changes the ratio, then diesel winds up in short supply while gasoline goes into surplus. That makes the price of diesel go up and gasoline go down, so that consumer preference reverts to maintain the same consumption ratio as before.

Diesel cars outside the US definitely contribute to the demand ratio.


RE: Enough pumps?
By TheSlamma on 2/12/2013 2:37:07 PM , Rating: 2
It always cracks me up the people who say how Europe is this massive diesel market.. yes they have more than the US, but all the places I have gone, France, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, Luxembourg.. while they all have them it was still quite a mix and some places it was way more gas than diesel. Maybe your info is just based on the "they said" logic and you haven't actually been there.

and they do not smell the same, diesel is a lung cancers dream still.


Ecoboost a success?
By ICBM on 2/12/2013 10:20:23 AM , Rating: 2
So Ford looks to ecoboost to help. F-150 ecoboost, 2011 model. 16.4 mpg average. That is in my dads truck. I don't know about you guys but we were very disappointed with these results. No where close to what the epa stickers estimated. My dad got better mileage with his 2001 F-250 diesel (17.2 mpg), and that is a HD truck. Tweak a diesel engine for economy not pure power, stick that in an F-150.

First poster, I have been behind many diesel and gasoline powered trucks cars where the owners have modified their exhaust systems. I know what you are talking about, its not the diesel. Gasoline does it too. Its idiots that screw with stuff cause they think its cool. Get behind the plethora of diesel vehicles not modified(VW, BMW, Mercedes, Dodge, Ford, Chevy) and see if that is still the case. I think you will find you comment to typically be not true.




RE: Ecoboost a success?
By sdsdv10 on 2/12/2013 11:10:29 AM , Rating: 2
An average of 16.4 mpg seems pretty good to me. It's certainly been a few years, but my 1997 F150 with the Triton 4.6L V8 (less HP and torque than the Ecoboost) only got ~11-12 mpg city, maybe 16-18 mpg highway. This looks like an improvement to me. Are other companies getting >17-18 mpg average from a full size pickup with this much HP/torque?


RE: Ecoboost a success?
By JediJeb on 2/12/2013 9:49:35 PM , Rating: 3
My 96 F150 4x4 with the 4.9L I6 averages just under 18mpg with about half my time on two lane roads and the other half running through a small town with a dozen traffic lights every day. If I get on the interstate and try to run 70+mph that mileage drops to closer to 13mpg, you can literally see the fuel gage moving :) Considering it was built in 1996 it was designed when the speed limit was only 55mph or just after they raised it some back then so it is optimized for about 60mph or less.


RE: Ecoboost a success?
By Spuke on 2/12/2013 12:41:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So Ford looks to ecoboost to help. F-150 ecoboost, 2011 model. 16.4 mpg average. That is in my dads truck. I don't know about you guys but we were very disappointed with these results. No where close to what the epa stickers estimated.
Numbers without mentioning driving style and conditions are worthless. My wife got 16 mpg when driving her 2006 F250 diesel as a daily driver. That's 80% freeway with low speeds and a little stop and go driving on the last 20%. If driving all freeway with zero stops at 75 mph, 19 mpg. All freeway with zero stops at 60 mph, 21 mpg (which was the best we ever got with that truck). This is in spring/summer weather and she's not a lead foot in the truck (her new car is a different story).


Gas prices are already $4.40 in Los Angeles...
By integr8d on 2/12/2013 10:51:25 AM , Rating: 2
I wonder if Ford has a handle on something that's coming down the pike...

I have a lot of friends in London that all tell the same story about how the government jacked up the price of petrol to force everyone onto diesel. Once they were all converted, the government then just jacked up the price of diesel.




RE: Gas prices are already $4.40 in Los Angeles...
By ShieTar on 2/12/2013 11:26:14 AM , Rating: 2
Not true. Petrol and Diesel are always produced together, the relative demand defines the price. When nobody wanted diesel it was cheap, now that people use it more, its no longer cheap. Just simple economy.


RE: Gas prices are already $4.40 in Los Angeles...
By JediJeb on 2/12/2013 9:54:19 PM , Rating: 3
Not just simple economy, at least not in the US because it was mandated to lower the sulfur content in diesel which raised the price literally overnight. Add to that the fact that fuel tax is at least 50% higher on diesel than gasoline and it makes it even more expensive.


By Mint on 2/13/2013 3:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_Uni...

5.6 cents per gallon extra for diesel, not 50%. That'll have almost no effect on demand.


Light Duty Truck
By btc909 on 2/12/2013 1:22:22 PM , Rating: 2
Whoever can put a diesel in a Light Duty Truck and not charge stupid money for it is going to sell a bunch of them.

If Toyota was smart the revised Prius should be a diesel hybrid with NiMH batteries.




RE: Light Duty Truck
By Jeffk464 on 2/12/2013 2:26:48 PM , Rating: 1
I have a Toyota Tacoma and what I would really like to see from them is a big 4cyl turbo diesel, maybe 2.7L. They also need to kick the transmission from 5spd auto to 6spd. High gas prices already make the Tacoma an attractive alternative to f150's and Rams.


RE: Light Duty Truck
By Spuke on 2/12/2013 5:35:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
High gas prices already make the Tacoma an attractive alternative to f150's and Rams.
But they get essentially the same gas mileage as the bigger trucks AND they cost the same.

2013 F150 V6 and V8's
15/22 (they're all in that range except the 6.2L)

2013 Tacoma V6
17/21

You have to get the 4 cyl Tacoma to get 21/25 but the 4 cyl offers no more capability than a Jetta TDI wagon.


RE: Light Duty Truck
By Jeffk464 on 2/13/2013 12:47:25 AM , Rating: 2
17/21 is for the 4x4, the pre-runner was listed 18-22 when I bought it and I have managed 25mpg on the interstate.


RE: Light Duty Truck
By Jeffk464 on 2/13/2013 12:49:52 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, the 4cyl is for the standard tacoma. Its great for a light work truck or for hauling sports equipment around, but for 4x4 or more serious towing you definitely want the V6.


By Philippine Mango on 2/12/2013 5:30:02 PM , Rating: 2
The cost of getting that urea plus the very high cost of diesel fuel makes these cars very unappealing now. The premium for a diesel engine is like $5K which at that point puts it actually more expensive than just going with a hybrid drivetrain.




TDI Owner
By L1011 on 2/14/2013 9:59:18 AM , Rating: 2
I own a 2012 VW Golf TDI. Similarly equipped, my TDI was not $5,000 more than a gasoline Golf. It cost $26,900 after negotiating down from $28,650 sticker price, which represents about a $2,000 premium for the TDI v. gas. I have the DSG tranny too, which I really like.

Also, my Golf does NOT have a Urea tank, so whoever posted that Urea is required in the USA is incorrect. The 2013 Golf TDI does NOT have Urea either.

I drive approx 26,000/miles (US) per year, which is why the TDI made economic sense for me. My commute is approx 85% highway and 15% low speed. I routinely drive 70-75MPH and I track my real fuel economy via calculator (miles driven divided by exact gallons used since last fill-up, as dictated by the fuel pump) and I'm averaging 37-38MPG. That number is climbing as my engine gets broken in. It was 35MPG when I first bought the car. As a test, I forced myself to slow down to a maximum of 65MPH for one full tank of diesel and I got 39.8 MPG. I'm certain my car will eventually get 40-42MPG.

My TDI has a lot of torque, which makes it really fun to drive. At 70MPH the engine is spinning at just over 2,000 RPM, so it's a quiet car. Diesels naturally run cooler than gas engines so engine components last longer (I fully expect to get at least 200,000 miles out of my TDI). Over the life of the car, and at today's fuel costs, I expect to save almost $8,000 in fuel versus my previous car. For me, the TDI makes great economic sense. The fact it's practical AND really fun to drive is icing on the cake.




By trracer on 2/15/2013 8:01:50 PM , Rating: 2
... you will not understand. They really have this figured out.

I have rented diesel cars in the UK and contenental Europe for years, and where they are now in their technology blows me away. They do not smell, shake at idle, or rattle.

I few months ago we were in Ireland, we rented a full sized Renault wagon (estate). It had a small diesel, adequate power because of amazing torque, and was quite entertaining to drive. It took some math to convert liters to US gallons, kilometers to miles, and finally miles per gallon. We got over 39 miles per gallon. This was a big, heavy car.

Diesels make so much more sense that hybrids, I'll never understand how peopel got duped into thinking they are buying green with hybrids...




Ford's magic
By Richard875yh5 on 2/12/2013 2:17:41 PM , Rating: 1
Ford always has a magic bullet for any kind of problems. They grossly exaggerate their gas mileage and brag about Ecoboost which is just an engine with a turbo and direct injection....who incidentally was very late in the game to come out with that setup against VW and GM. But!! They sure are laughing all the way to the bank.




uhuh
By GulWestfale on 2/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: uhuh
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/12/2013 9:28:04 AM , Rating: 2
It's not news; the statement goes hand-in-hand with Ford's assertion that they can react quickly if the U.S. if the demand is there. They already have the engines, it's just a matter of certifying them to meet U.S. emissions standards.


RE: uhuh
By Spuke on 2/12/2013 9:28:22 AM , Rating: 2
My guess is that they have some diesel engines that already meet US emissions regs.


RE: uhuh
By ICBM on 2/12/2013 10:24:01 AM , Rating: 2
They have the engines, I was in a diesel Ford Ranger in a Brazil. Pretty cool. The big question is whether they meet epa standards. From my understanding all the current engines do not, and it is not easy or cheap to retool the engine to current standards. Ask Mahindra. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/11/mahindra-gives-...


RE: uhuh
By Jeffk464 on 2/12/2013 2:28:57 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I saw the oversees ranger. Looked like something to challenge the tacoma unlike the domestic ranger.


RE: uhuh
By Spuke on 2/12/2013 5:38:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ask Mahindra.
I remember all the hype here on DT about their pickup. Not a peep now mysteriously. LOL! BTW, I was one of the detractors.


The smell
By stimudent on 2/12/13, Rating: -1
RE: The smell
RE: The smell
By LRonaldHubbs on 2/12/2013 11:00:18 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately lots of cars cannot recirc while defrosting, so on cold days you are screwed and just have to deal with the smell.


RE: The smell
By Jeffk464 on 2/12/2013 2:31:18 PM , Rating: 2
Recirculating the air cuts down on the effectiveness of the defroster.


RE: The smell
By sprockkets on 2/12/2013 9:54:55 PM , Rating: 2
It's the simple fact that you are recirculating the air you exhale, which is moisture rich and goes right onto the windows.

You intake outside air which is dry in the winter to prevent fog from happening in the first place.


RE: The smell
By BioHazardous on 2/12/2013 11:07:30 AM , Rating: 2
You're obviously not talking about a modern diesel smaller passenger vehicle. You're talking about either a car before 2000, a pickup truck, or a semi.


RE: The smell
By Argon18 on 2/12/2013 11:41:51 AM , Rating: 2
You clearly don't understand engine technology. Just as modern gasoline engines are a far cry from their 1970's counterparts with carburetors and points ignition systems, so too are diesels.

Modern diesels occupy 8 of the 10 positions on the UK's "Greenest Cars" list because they emit the lowest pollution levels. Modern 2013 diesels are *cleaner* than gasoline engines.


RE: The smell
By Mint on 2/13/2013 3:50:58 PM , Rating: 2
That depends on how you define "Greenest". I assume you're talking solely about CO2 emissions.

For more relevant pollutants, modern diesels are rather average. The Passat TDI is Tier 2 Bin 5. Good gasoline engines are Tier 2 Bin 2 (SULEV). There are some research projects to bring diesel into the latter category, but it's not there yet.


RE: The smell
By mrwassman on 2/12/2013 11:51:41 AM , Rating: 4
Misconceptions like these are why we are behind.


RE: The smell
By Elchuso on 2/12/2013 8:08:40 PM , Rating: 2
Excuse me .... But you don't have the faintest idea about diesel engines in Europe.
First to all. Diesel engines from Ford are long time borrowed from PSA (Peugeot-Citröen). They resigned time ago to their own lineup: they did right ..... PSA engines are the best on their range.
Second ..... Mileage.
Loooooong time ago, we europeans have bigger than 50% market share diesels. Some Countries (like Spain) more than 70%
WE DO NOT USE TRUCKS. We use smaller cars that can pull-out 4 liters/100 Km efficiency without need for a expensive (and subsidezed with everybody's taxes) hybrid tech.
Price: Yes, diesels are more expensive to buy, but they have longer life and a LOT more torque, so relaxed drive. No need to rev-up.
Environment: Diesels in Europe now have EURO V standard. They have particle filters and catalysators so no fumes, no odour .... We are entering now EURO VI, which will lead to even cleaner cars.
Why go to hybryd ??? Can somebody answer me ??
MPG is a lot better now in a diesel european car .... Period.


RE: The smell
By bobsmith1492 on 2/12/2013 9:36:21 PM , Rating: 1
Each city I've visited in Spain, France, and Italy reeked of diesel fumes, so I don't get why you say there are no fumes or odor.


RE: The smell
By Elchuso on 2/14/2013 7:04:43 PM , Rating: 2
Simple question .... Simple answer.
Because not all cars running on those cities are EURO V or EURO VI.
There is a big amount of old cars that do not comply with new regulations, as there are a few cars with Eco-boost technology.
Not to mention that central heating in those cities are mainly fuel-oil ones, quite dirty.
As simple as that.
Cities will be as clean as the cars are renewed.
Aren't we talking about NEW technologies ??
Aren't we talking about cleaner cars, not cities ??
It's a matter of time.
Anyway I stick on my comments. MPG is far better with new diesel engines. New ones are cleaner.


"So if you want to save the planet, feel free to drive your Hummer. Just avoid the drive thru line at McDonalds." -- Michael Asher














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