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Ford wants to make it cheaper to recharge vehicles

Ford plans to develop future electric vehicles to have the ability to communicate with power grids, offering cheaper, more efficient charging, according to Ford spokespeople.  Specifically, the in-vehicle technology will help drivers pick cheaper times to recharge their electric cars.

As American auto buyers continue to look for green cars to purchase, automakers have looked more into electric technology -- the problem with this move, however, means automakers must create electric vehicles while power companies look into creating recharging power grids.

Most utility companies now have the technology to support electric cars, and it's more likely some Americans will need to have adapters and other technology installed in their garage.

"At the end of the day this has to be easy for our consumer," Ford Chairman Bill Ford Jr. said during a recent meeting regarding electrification.  "This can't just be an interesting science experiment.  This has to be something that makes people's lives better and easier and that is what our dialogue is all about."

Ford is attempting to offer connectivity so car owners have the ability to recharge their cars during off-peak hours or when there is a type of renewable energy powering the grid, the company also added.  This is part of the overall goal to help ensure electrified cars are more accepted, as the cost of recharging vehicles during off-peak hours is cheaper and is less likely to threaten the grid's overall stability.

Ford has remained somewhat secretive when it comes to electric vehicles, while General Motors recently proudly stated its Chevrolet Volt will be able to get up to 230 mpg

Each automaker is now attempting to deal with "smart" charging to help keep rates lower, with vehicles ranging from plug-in gas-electric hybrid vehicles to full electric cars.  Since the bulk of these green vehicles are still many months -- with most a year or more away -- there is time to better develop any necessary in-car technology.



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By psychobriggsy on 8/20/2009 10:11:51 AM , Rating: 5
I'd suggest a cable, with a plug at both ends, one end would plug into an electricity supply, and the other into a receptable (that could be covered when not-plugged in) on the vehicle that connects to the recharging circuitry.

Alternatively, you could have 10000 AAA battery holders, and require the user to switch out each one individually. Or is that what GM would design?




By kattanna on 8/20/2009 10:19:43 AM , Rating: 2
agreed. we here in the US love to make overly complicated solutions to simple problems at times.


By tallcool1 on 8/20/2009 10:35:10 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Specifically, the in-vehicle technology will help drivers pick cheaper times to recharge their electric cars.
You don't need to waste millions of dollars on research for a in car computer and electrical grid communication system to figure this out. Let alone the increase cost it will have on the overall product. It is as simple as this: Off peak times are at night and on weekends. Just put that in print on the cover of the recharge socket as a reminder for the electric car owner.

quote:
As American auto buyers continue to look for green cars to purchase
BTW, I prefer Blue, or sometimes White, depending on the vehicle...


By GaryJohnson on 8/20/2009 11:13:56 AM , Rating: 5
If we get any appreciable number of EVs on the roads and everyone starts recharging them at night and on the weekend, then those times might no longer be off-peak.


By Spivonious on 8/20/2009 11:25:57 AM , Rating: 4
My electricity provider doesn't differentiate between peak and off-peak; the rate is the same 24/7. So any money that Ford pumps into this is wasted in my case.

I prefer blue cars, too. It seems these days the only "colors" you can get are white, gray, or black.


By FITCamaro on 8/20/2009 12:39:59 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
BTW, I prefer Blue, or sometimes White, depending on the vehicle...


Don't live in Commifornia. They're already looking to ban black. Every dark color is probably next.


By ClownPuncher on 8/20/2009 2:31:38 PM , Rating: 5
That is car rascism of the worst kind.


By Helbore on 8/20/2009 4:41:37 PM , Rating: 2
That's funny, because I thought Ford only offered cars in black.

Or am I a little out-of-date?


By Oregonian2 on 8/21/2009 6:39:59 AM , Rating: 2
I think the original quote from Ford (Model T?) was that "it comes in any color that you want, so long as you want black". Or something like that.


By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 8/20/2009 11:35:35 AM , Rating: 3
Only an overly complicated issue for home owners? How is an apartment dweller supposed to recharge during off-peak, assuming there will be such a thing anymore? Dedicated receptacles? What about your theiving neighbors breaking into your box? As it were?


By tallcool1 on 8/20/2009 11:46:48 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
How is an apartment dweller supposed to recharge
Not only that, but I can just see it now, kids unplugging vehicles in the apartment parking lot as a prank...

They will need some sort of lock on the vehicle socket, to keep the cord from being removed, in addition, not be able to put the vehicle into drive with a cord still plugged in...


By Jedi2155 on 8/20/2009 9:30:49 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I know from experience in a Toyota RAV 4 EV, you can't start the vehicle with the charge paddle connected.....


By Grater on 8/20/2009 10:22:29 AM , Rating: 3
If the users were stuck switching out batteries they would never notice the car they bought was crappy. Genius.


By bissimo on 8/20/2009 10:23:16 AM , Rating: 2
Genius!


By TiberiusKane on 8/20/2009 10:31:56 AM , Rating: 5
Wow, really? You guys need to feign ignorance to make a joke? Electric cars and green technology are sooooo simple. Right. Maybe Ford is trying to see how the interface between the car and the power source can leverage a smart grid? Maybe Ford is trying to more completely fill the green consumer niche by having the car draw down power during specific times of the day or using specific resources, also enabled by smart grid technology and advanced metering? Or do you like it when companies don't innovate?

I don't work in the clean tech or car industry, but damn even I know this ain't your ordinary laptop power brick that you stick into your car.

Useful thing to know, if you're making stupid comments... one end of your body (your foot) would plug into a BS supply (your mouth) that would be covered until you make some sense.

Alternatively, you could read up on the subject, which would require you to make some effort. Or is that what intelligent people would do?


By christojojo on 8/20/2009 10:38:03 AM , Rating: 2
Wow TiberiusKane, May I ask if you forgot your organic prune juice this morning?

You are rather touchy. I do believe some of the comments were practical, some were jokes. All in all I would think the only reason for FORD to do such research is for maximizing profit.


By TiberiusKane on 8/20/2009 1:51:54 PM , Rating: 2
Christojojo:

I was replying to two posts. No practical comments were made when I made my comment. Please check the timestamps. I was especially referring to the first one.


By knutjb on 8/20/2009 1:56:32 PM , Rating: 3
You comics don't get it, it's not as simple as just plugging into the socket. Ford has been working with power companies for several years to develop a practical charging system that won't brown out or black out a grid. In most major metropolitan areas the grid is near the breaking point already and so called environmentalist have been blocking expansion of the grid like in CA to connect the wind turbines in the Tehachpi range to LA. No sparks no go.

In order to maximize profits, Ford must make sure that the purchaser of their plug in vehicle will be able to do so at their residence. To not do so is irresponsible.

I would more likely buy from Ford BECAUSE they are doing their homework to ensure that when I go home to plug in my shinny new car it will charge and NOT create chaos for the grid, unlike the others who say here you go now it's your problem.


By mindless1 on 8/20/2009 5:02:19 PM , Rating: 2
... but that's all nonsense.

1) Without a dedicated 220V circuit the car will need to charge long enough that you can't /only/ charge it at a certain time or day when the grid is below capacity.

2) Given the limited distance they can run on battery power, many many people will NEED to begin charging their car at max rate possible as soon as they arrive at their home or destination.

3) People already have the option of choosing when to turn lights on, when to run their washer AC TV heater etc, this is the same kind of choice as to when you plug your car in and when you unplug it.

4) It IS as simple as just plugging it into the socket because the user isn't designing a charging circuit or doing anything more elaborate than taking cable A, plugging it in to car port B, and into charger port C. Putting the round peg in the round hole instead of the square one is simple enough most intelligent human beings master it by age 4.

5) The window of problems where there are enough electric cars charging to overwhelm the grid but not enough that intelligent charging times will help is very small. Ultimately it's not of much use given this and my prior points, when there is enough saturation of owners the grid will simply need upgraded, as well as many smaller or older homes main AC supply lines to the premises upgraded.

6) It's pointless to write that Ford must mack sure the purchaser can recharge at home, that much was plainly obvious and will always be the norm.

7) Ford is doing nothing exceptionally different than others, and for good reason this is the typical evolution of electronics that you first get core function down and then you refine it.

8) There is no magic way to not create chaos if the grid lacks the capacity and remember something, cars are on the road all day and night, people working different shifts, etc, there is no assumption people can just elect to nor do they want to be forced to only charge their cars at certain times.

9) Even if the cost of electricity changes during peak periods, most of the cost of operation of the car is in the battery pack, differences in power rate for the same region will not deter someone from charging their car so they can use it when they needed to, which was the whole point of paying so much for a new car in the first place!

10) If you want your car to tell you when you can drive due to when it's charged 9Or else burn petrol which defeats the whole purpose of the electric car) and when you must charge it, and want to pay extra money to have the feature, you are a minority.


By Keeir on 8/20/2009 5:31:39 PM , Rating: 2
Alright, you have some good points, but there needs to be a few corrections

#1.)
A.) Even the State of California has significant power laying around for more than 20/24 hours

http://www.caiso.com/outlook/outlook.html

B.) 20 hours of Charge at 110 V and 8 amps, the minimum that house outlets give is 17.6 kWh. Most electric cars go 3-4 miles per from the Wall kWh. Thats more than 60 miles... alot for the average day. Most 110V are capable of 12 amps, especially a garage circuit. mmm... thats more than 80 miles of travel, without charging during peak times.

#2.)
Ummm... what? The types of Plug-ins were are talking about have 50+ miles of Range. It is really rare that during someones day that it is absolutely required to travel 50 miles one way, then within a few hours, 50 miles back. 50 miles is a -long- way. Aparently 78% of Americans drive less than 40 miles, -both- ways to work and back. Clearly, if you do this alot, a BEV without a 220V or 440V charging option is not for you.

#3.)
True, but the option to use electricity from 12am to 4am or based on the power companies choice could lead to massive enviromental benifits. IE, Many places run baseline loads that are higher than actual demand during portions of the day. Letting the power company let you know when on a given day that is would allow nearly carbon free charging, as the power would go to waste otherwise.

#4.) ??

#5.) False. Looking at the same California link, if plug-ins were charged only at the "right time", the system could clearly support 3x the number than all at the "wrong time". Plus, see #3.

#8.) Ummm.. actually there is. If all plug-ins are "smart", the grid can shut them down first. This would piss off the people who need to use thier car during this time to be sure. I can't see it being done, but I can see how say a state like California could say : No Electricity to Cars in homes between 2 PM and 8 PM. Know it and Accept It.

#9.) Some areas Off-peak to peak can be 4x as expensive. Off-peak loads are often provided using low cost Coal and Nuclear Power. Peak Loads use more expensive NG (or Solar). Over a single year, at 15,000 miles, 4 miles per kWh this could be ~ 250 or more dollars for some people. Thats worth it.

You know what. Your whole post smacks of the idea. "If something can be 100% perfect for 100% of the market the idea is terrible" -paraphrase.

I disagree, if a product adequately serves a large segments of the market, nothing is wrong with the idea. Ford is simply trying to ensure the market for Ford BEVs is as large as possible. BEVs already could serve large segments of the automobile market.


By knutjb on 8/22/2009 11:46:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
4) It IS as simple as just plugging it into the socket because the user isn't designing a charging circuit or doing anything more elaborate than taking cable A, plugging it in to car port B, and into charger port C. Putting the round peg in the round hole instead of the square one is simple enough most intelligent human beings master it by age 4.

Duh, the physical act of plugging in is that simple, it's what happens when you multiply that by millions.

When a million plus cars are plugged in, say in LA or any other major metropolitan area, from Jun-Aug when many parts of the grid across the country are already near max capacity what do you think is going to happen? Add to that the increasing demand for electrical resources combined with no reasonable expansion plans for the grid or power plants. What do you get? Now it's not so simple.

quote:
6) It's pointless to write that Ford must mack sure the purchaser can recharge at home, that much was plainly obvious and will always be the norm.

Ford is making sure that their plug-ins work because if they don't consumers will blame them, not the power companies or the managers of the grid. Some one WILL sue if the plug-in they just bought can't be plugged in or their grannies AC went off during a brown/black out during triple digit temps killing her because of irresponsible car makers plug-in. Ford is being more proactive than the other makes by working closely with the power providers.

I don't have a problem with the idea of plug-ins. I do have a problem with the environmental groups pushing plug-ins but preventing expansion of power production and distribution. Something will have to give, when was the last time you went without power for a few days, in summer?

It's a simple idea with serious infrastructure problems that must be dealt with before all those cars come to market.

Yet another case of the cart before the horse...


By mdogs444 on 8/20/2009 10:40:53 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Useful thing to know, if you're making stupid comments...

And then you make a stupid comment...
quote:
one end of your body (your foot) would plug into a BS supply (your mouth)


I have a useful thing for you to know...

Oxymoron : n. a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”


By TiberiusKane on 8/20/2009 1:56:41 PM , Rating: 2
Ok? Lol, I thought it was clever in response to psychobriggsy. Not sure what the oxymoron definition is for... we all know what that means. If you tell me why psychobriggsy and kattana were so right in their comments (the ones I was really replying to, if you check my timestamps), then sure. I'll retract my statements. Otherwise, I'm still gonna say they oversimplified things just to make some corporation look dumb and make themselves feel smart.


By mdogs444 on 8/20/2009 3:14:15 PM , Rating: 2
I never said those two were right. I'm saying its an oxymoron when you tell people they make stupid comments, and then go make one yourself in the same sentence.

A little bit of do as i say, not as i do?


By TiberiusKane on 8/20/2009 4:09:32 PM , Rating: 2
Psychobriggs made an oversimplification, with his "Here's a bright idea" sarcastic type of statement. I called him out on it using the same sarcastic, literary mechanics. I don't see where I'm being stupid in that regard. If you're trying to call me out, please read his post, then read mine. If you're saying you didn't like the sarcastic way I put it and didn't think it was clever, sorry. Not a comic. Didn't know you expected one. Thought you expected a person who respected advances in technology (which is why you're on a site called DailyTech, I thought) and blasted smartasses who insult those advances with purposeful obtuseness.

And my post was actually not an oxymoron in the literary sense. The word comes from Greek, meaning "sharply dull", and it needs a combination of two contradictory terms or words. I think you mean "kettle calling the pot black", "ironic", or something similar. You called me out, but then defined a word that was not all that relevant. If you defined "irony" in your post, that would've hit the target better. Just sayin.


By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 8/20/2009 11:40:01 AM , Rating: 2
I guess you have never worked in a technical service industry. You can make something elegant and fool-proof, but there a plenty of clever fools out there who can mess the whole thing up. And if every device is trying to optimize economy, they will run the same algorithm, and then how will there ever be an off-peak time anymore? You thought California had rolling black outs before... whew.


By TiberiusKane on 8/20/2009 1:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
See that's the thing. With smart grid technology and advance metering, there are two-way communications. So, there would be no need to run algorithms. Just measure. Of course, that's an oversimplification as well, but all I'm saying is this: Maybe Ford is working with a bunch of companies to get some new technology, and we have some people (on a site called DailyTech) who are poo-pooing the idea when we can be making progress. I'm saying, keep an open mind.


What about battery "lifeing"
By Amiga500 on 8/20/2009 10:46:02 AM , Rating: 1
Anyone that has owned a laptop will know what I'm on about.

Battery life of 3 hours when new.

Battery life of 3 mins a few years later.

To avoid this, you need to fully discharge before recharge - but obviously this is not practical from both energy and time points of view.

Question:

Does lifeing apply to current electric car batteries (they aren't lead acid are they?)

If so - what are the companies doing about it?




RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By Silverel on 8/20/2009 11:13:48 AM , Rating: 5
These aren't exactly the same thing as your laptop batteries. Where you might only get 3 years before you need to replace them, the EV batteries from Ford have a minimum lifetime of 10 years under normal use.

For the record, 10 years is a lot longer than the average lifespan of a car, at least when it comes to consumers. Most people buy a new car every 5 years. Smaller amounts of people hold onto them for 10. Only the very cheap and practical people like myself are still driving an '89 Cavalier. That's a 20 year old car, with around 360,000 miles from an era where the American car companies were supposedly producing utter crap.

You'll have other things to worry about before the battery dies off. Considering the timeline, they should be much cheaper than the current pricetag to replace if you do keep your EV for 10+ years...


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By mindless1 on 8/20/2009 5:15:17 PM , Rating: 2
That is misleading info. Minimum lifespan is until they decide the capacity isn't enough, not until you find the battery capacity isn't enough to travel under battery power anymore.

Even if they claim 10 years, ask me about the Ford door latch spring that has broken on two doors already, a part meant to last the life of the vehicle even if it were 20 years old (under 10 years at present). Things break it's just a fact of life.

10 years is not a lot longer than many many many people keep a car, and the newer cars are kept even longer as there is less and less difference in upgrade and quality until now with hybrids/elect/etc.

Every day on the roads I see tons of 10 year old cars, I would expect the majority are over 5 years old. Might depend on who you survey, and that many poorer people aren't licensing and insuring their older cars anymore with the eventual risk of getting caught as they can't afford the insurance or upkeep continually.

It won't be cost effective for most people buying small and least expensive (still very expensive relatively) electric cars to replace the battery at the 10 year mark. Battery will cost more than the value of the car without a battery. What those having gas engines will do is just power it by running the gas engine far more often until the battery or interconnect circuitry totally fails to the point the vehicle is inoperable.

There is a bright side, I expect in 10 years there will be aftermarket battery packs that are cheaper due to competition, due to lower quality and longevity, and due to some downsizing the capacity to lower replacement cost. For example today you can buy a (usually inferior but not always) generic laptop battery pack made in the orient for about 1/3rd the cost of a major brand pack. Main hitch in this is a car pack is large enough the shipping cost itself offsets some of the savings when finished product is individually shipping instead of raw parts in bulk to be assembled more locally.


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By Starcub on 8/20/2009 11:14:18 AM , Rating: 4
They aren't lead-acid, they are either NiMH or some kind of Lithium based formula. They get longer life than traditional laptop batteries, at least in part, because they employ greater capacity than they use. Your typical electric car only makes use of the battery when the charge is between 30-80% of capacity.


By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 8/20/2009 11:42:27 AM , Rating: 2
I heard my Camry is in the 40-80% range.


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By isorfir on 8/20/2009 11:14:04 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
To avoid this, you need to fully discharge before recharge


This is false information as far as laptop batteries go, since they now use the Li-ion battery type which do not suffer from the memory effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#A...


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By FITCamaro on 8/20/2009 12:44:22 PM , Rating: 1
So I guess that lithium-ion laptop battery I have which can't even last long enough from a full charge for me to turn on the laptop, boot into Windows, be told my battery is low, find the power brick, and plug it in is just a figment of my imagination?

And for reference, that's about 2 minutes.


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By zzatz on 8/20/2009 1:46:07 PM , Rating: 5
It's your imagination that confuses the memory effect with all other battery lifetime performance issues.

Only nickel-cadmium batteries have the memory problem that can be avoided by a full discharge - full charge cycle. Other battery types have no problems with recharging when partially discharged. Li-ion, the most common type for today's laptops, degrade quickly if fully discharged, and they degrade over time no matter how they are used. They'll die just sitting on the self.

Most batteries degrade over time. No one disputes that your battery is degraded. The post you challenged explains that Amiga500's advice will kill a Li-ion battery quickly, but is good advice for nickel-cadmium batteries. What part of that do you disagree with?


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By mindless1 on 8/20/2009 5:19:44 PM , Rating: 2
Even with NiCd, the memory effect is mostly a myth as very very few devices cut off battery power at the same precise charge level necessary to cause a memory effect. It was observed with precise computer controlled cutoffs and charging periods in outer space, not in anyone's regular use of NiCd.

When a device cheaps out on NiCd it almost always cheaps out on a cutoff or recharge circuit so practically speaking it is trivia, not reality that NiCd has a memory effect.

I welcome anyone to point out consumer devices that incur the memory effect rather than cell wear or abuse to cause diminished capacity. Even in those cases the cure for the so-called memory effect is trivial, to simply leave the cell charging on trickle current once it would've normally reached it's peak capacity... something most chargers do anyway so it even further debunks the myth about memory effect.


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By dnd728 on 8/20/2009 11:20:55 AM , Rating: 2
First, no, you do not need to do that - in fact, fully discharging a Li-Ion battery would only degrade it. (but frankly, nothing really helps - they'll die whatever you do)

Second, if needed, a $40,000 car would probably be smart enough to do for you transparently.

Third, as it stands today we're talking more like Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, than those you have in your laptop, and yes, they're obviously working on yet better technologies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphat...


RE: What about battery "lifeing"
By Keeir on 8/20/2009 6:07:55 PM , Rating: 2
Most Lithium Ion Batteries in Consumer Devices are Lithium Cobalt Chemistry.

This Chemistry has very poor resistence to aging, cycles, and temperature in comparison to the Lithium Iron Phosphate and Lithium Manganese Spirel used by major market BEVs/PHEV.

Tesla Motors uses Lithium Cobalt, btw.

Second, and this is important, Laptops have one of the worst situations for Lithium Batteries. When in use, Battery Temperature can exceed 100 Degree +. And this is true, even when running off of wall power.... in fact, this is even worse situation since Lithium Cobalt degrades fastener when 100% full and not in use.

Automobile applications include sophisticated battery management systems including the seperation of battery from heat producing components. Look at the Leaf, it plans to essentially use the bottom of the car as a giant heat sink for the battery. This will extend life of these batteries singificantly, even if they were the relatively poor Lithium Cobalt.


Always charging when not driving
By bildan on 8/20/2009 10:39:35 AM , Rating: 2
Electric cars should never miss a chance to charge even if it's just for a few minutes. That calls for some sort of automatic docking connection, inductive coupling or both.

If EV's were always automatically charging whenever they were parked, drivers would rarely need to think about charging them.




By christojojo on 8/20/2009 10:39:14 AM , Rating: 2
Me could call that trickle economics. lol (Yes I know it was used in Regan era.)


RE: Always charging when not driving
By mdogs444 on 8/20/2009 10:45:45 AM , Rating: 2
Unless you had to for a longer period of time than, say, 1 hour.


By FITCamaro on 8/20/2009 1:56:24 PM , Rating: 2
Think you meant to say "had to drive"


By Motoman on 8/20/2009 11:01:31 AM , Rating: 2
Field induction charging is interesting, but something tells me that it wouldn't provide enough amperage to make it all that effective.

Conceptually I could see running lines along the lanes of major highways to do field induction...so in theory, you'd be charging as you drove. But I would have to believe it would be a very lossy system and probably not provide enough of a charge to worry about.

Once you're in a stationary position, it's easy to make a physical connection, one way or another. So I don't think it makes much sense to put a field induction system in parking lots. It's far too inefficient to use that when you could just plug your car in, or nose it up to a contact point, or push a button in the car and contacts drop from the undercarriage to metal contacts in the asphalt, or whatever.


great news
By evmdfan on 8/20/2009 11:13:11 AM , Rating: 1
this is just one more news article that disproves another baseless myth about electric vehicles- not to mention that as the demand for electricity grows, so will the grid. Electric cars are safe, clean, and efficient. And, with electric cars we can save our economy (using domestic energy, lowering our trade deficit, building jobs), while also helping reduce pollution. Electric cars are the future- as soon as affordable ones are on the market. For an insightful, readable, and eye-opening introduction to the benefits and history of electric cars, I recommend the book about electric vehicles,"Two Cents Per Mile" by Nevres Cefo</a>. Did you know that electric cars have been driving on u.s. roads for over a decade? To learn more, visit the books website at http://www.twocentspermile.com or read reviews of it, and excerpts from it, on Amazon at http://bit.ly/2centspermile




RE: great news
By JediJeb on 8/20/2009 2:39:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
not to mention that as the demand for electricity grows, so will the grid.


Tell that to those in California who experience the rolling blackouts because the grid if overloaded.

The demand in many places is begining to overload the grid, but as long as Econuts and others block grid expansion it will be a problem.

I live out in the middle of nowhere and every time there is a storm we lose power for a few hours it seems. I had the utility company call a few months ago with a survey about improving the lines, one question was how much would I pay more on my monthly bill to have trees cut back farther from the lines and that started at $2 a month and incremented upwards to $10 a month. Then they asked how much I would be willing to pay per month to place more lines underground and it started at $50 per month. My electric bill in the hottest part of the summer is barely over $50 so that would at least double my bill. My biggest fear is that once EVs become popular our electric bills are going to skyrocket as the utility companies struggle to upgrade the grids to keep up.


RE: great news
By 67STANG on 8/20/2009 4:20:15 PM , Rating: 2
California hasn't had rolling blackouts for at least 7 or 8 years-- and very little of that was actually due to a supply/demand scenario.

It was because the utility companies were deregulated in 1996 and started selling California's electricity to neighboring states because they could get more money-- thus creating an artificial short-supply of energy for the state.


RE: great news
By Keeir on 8/20/2009 6:12:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yep. California is alot smarter these days

http://www.caiso.com/outlook/outlook.html

Today is Summer Right? Not a heat wave I think, but still relevent.

See even at "peak", there is a good 5% margin forecasted for today


By omgwtf8888 on 8/20/2009 11:39:33 AM , Rating: 2
With Intel engaged with this technology, the right hardware, and a cellular based transmission of power, maybe we see a charging system that looks a lot like the way your cell phone gets its signals. Short bursts of power beamed into your battery from magnets while you drive if you charge lvl drops. Your House would act as a cel to fully charge you car at night.




How about
By SnakeBlitzken on 8/20/2009 1:01:14 PM , Rating: 2
just hook it up to jumper cables attached to your ford F150 half ton and let it run overnight?




Deja vous
By plowak on 8/20/2009 3:47:39 PM , Rating: 2
Three hundred miles per gallon and the chicks are fre...oops, I mean the electricity is free.




Cool story bro.
By Runiteshark on 8/20/2009 4:01:57 PM , Rating: 2
Cool story bro.




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edhardy(shoes, tshirts, jeans, caps, watche, handbag) $25
Armani(jeans, tshirts,) $24
AF(jeans, coat, hoody, sweater, tshirts)Abercrombie & Fitch $31

quote:
http://www.bbcloth.com
http://www.bbcloth.com




By on 8/22/2009 11:56:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
http://www.bbcloth.com
http://www.bbcloth.com

(air jordan, air max, shox tn, rift, puma, dunk sb, adidas) nike jordan shoes 1-24 $32
lv, coach, chane bag $35
COOGI(jeans, tshirts, hoody, jacket) $30
christian audigier(jeans, tshirts, hoody) $13
edhardy(shoes, tshirts, jeans, caps, watche, handbag) $25
Armani(jeans, tshirts,) $24
AF(jeans, coat, hoody, sweater, tshirts)Abercrombie & Fitch $31

quote:
http://www.bbcloth.com
http://www.bbcloth.com




By on 8/22/2009 11:56:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
http://www.bbcloth.com
http://www.bbcloth.com

(air jordan, air max, shox tn, rift, puma, dunk sb, adidas) nike jordan shoes 1-24 $32
lv, coach, chane bag $35
COOGI(jeans, tshirts, hoody, jacket) $30
christian audigier(jeans, tshirts, hoody) $13
edhardy(shoes, tshirts, jeans, caps, watche, handbag) $25
Armani(jeans, tshirts,) $24
AF(jeans, coat, hoody, sweater, tshirts)Abercrombie & Fitch $31

quote:
http://www.bbcloth.com
http://www.bbcloth.com




By on 8/22/2009 11:56:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
http://www.bbcloth.com
http://www.bbcloth.com

(air jordan, air max, shox tn, rift, puma, dunk sb, adidas) nike jordan shoes 1-24 $32
lv, coach, chane bag $35
COOGI(jeans, tshirts, hoody, jacket) $30
christian audigier(jeans, tshirts, hoody) $13
edhardy(shoes, tshirts, jeans, caps, watche, handbag) $25
Armani(jeans, tshirts,) $24
AF(jeans, coat, hoody, sweater, tshirts)Abercrombie & Fitch $31

quote:
http://www.bbcloth.com
http://www.bbcloth.com




By on 8/22/2009 1:16:05 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.streetcandy.org

The website wholesale for many kinds of fashion shoes, like the nike,jordan,prada,adidas,

also including the jeans,shirts,bags,hat and the decorations. All the products are free

shipping, and the the price is competitive, and also can accept Credit card payment.,after

the payment, can ship within short time.

free shipping
competitive price
any size available
accept the Credit card

our price:
jordan air max oakland raiders $34--39;
Ed Hardy AF JUICY POLO Bikini $25;
Christan Audigier BIKINI JACKET $25;
gstar coogi evisu true jeans $35;
coach chanel gucci LV handbags $36;
coogi DG edhardy gucci t-shirts $18;
CA edhardy vests.paul smith shoes $32;
jordan dunk af1 max gucci shoes $37;
EDhardy gucci ny New Era cap $16;
coach okely Adidas CHANEL DG Sunglass $18;

We do wholesale and retail! All are extremely CHEAP, please visit:

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s10 (JERSEY)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s1 (ED HARDY)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s11 (JEANS)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s6 (TSHIRTS)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s28 (JORDAN SHOES)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s58 (SANDAL)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s65 (HANDBAGS)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s69 (sunglass)

http://www.streetcandy.org/productlist.asp?id=s5 (bikini)




By on 8/30/2009 8:43:23 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.crispstyle.com

bikini$25

(air jordan, air max, shox tn, rift, puma, dunk sb, adidas)

nike jordan shoes 1-24 $32

lv, coach, chane bag $35

COOGI(jeans, tshirts, hoody, jacket) $30

christian audigier(jeans, tshirts, hoody) $13

edhardy(shoes, tshirts, jeans, caps, watche, handbag) $25

Armani(jeans, tshirts,) $24

AF(jeans, coat, hoody, sweater, tshirts)Abercrombie & Fitch $31

http://www.crispstyle.com




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